Dune (2021)

[Glade]

This was good, though I was turned off by some of the macho bullshit coming from Duncan and that other old guy who trained Paul while Duncan was away.  Having only seen the syfy miniseries (which yes, had terrible production quality, though I really liked it's followup Children of Dune miniseries) I couldn't help but compare some key scenes (i.e. the dead wife/tooth chomping scene) to this more muted but very stylish adaptation.  Overall, I think this should have been a hbo max multi-season series, where they could have done all (or at least many/the main--I haven't read them) books, and hopefully it could still become a tv show if the executives say it hasn't made enough for a sequel.

Do the indigenous Fremen want their entire way of life to be destroyed/uprooted by turning the planet into a green paradise via this technology?  It doesn't seem like anyone consulted them on that project...

[Captain Carrot]

On 10/23/2021 at 11:17 AM, Spaceman Spiff said:

The boy messiah story line who can speak "the word" to save the desert people isn't very interesting.

To me the interesting part of the 'boy messiah' part is that it was made up by the Bene Gesserit. They created the Fremen prophecy in case it was every needed by someone in their order. So, I see it as a subversion of the White Savior trope.

[DoctorAtomic]

The trope has been done so much now, it's hard to see past it sometimes. Paul wasn't actually supposed to be the KH even. Jessica basically blew the Bene Gesserit's plans. 

You can count me first in line if someone has the spine to take on a God Emperor movie. 

[Black Knight]

22 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

But that abrupt, anti-climactic ending .. it's difficult to fathom that a group of professionals agreed that was the best idea. 

I thought the ending was perfect. I'm not really sure how else they could have ended it given that so much more of the story has yet to come. It's also quite similar to the ending of LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring, another well-received film made by a (different) group of professionals. With both movies, the ending was the completion of one arc and watching the characters set off for their next arc. In that one, Frodo and Sam; in this one, Paul and Jessica.

And witnessing a Fremen riding a sandworm was the perfect intriguing teaser.

I reluctantly streamed this on HBO Max instead of seeing it in the theater like I really wanted, thanks covid! But I bet, assuming that Part 2 does get greenlit and made, some IMAX theaters will screen Part 1 again just ahead of the release of Part 2 and/or have special screenings of the two movies as a double-header.

[paulvdb]

My first introduction to Dune was through the prequel books. After that I started to read the original, but couldn't get through it because I didn't like the Paul character. I tried to watch the movie, but was not surprised to have the same problem with it so I didn't finish it. I'll probably check out the upcoming Sisterhood series on HBO Max if Paul is not going to be in that.

[Anela]

I'm not sure what to think. I've never read the book, never seen the previous movie. It was beautifully filmed, so I can understand why the director really wanted it to be seen at the theatre, but I didn't go, because of covid. I can't remember if I commented on Friday (I watched it Thursday night). 

I started to watch it with my dad, but he had to go to bed. He wasn't too impressed, said something about it being like Star Wars "but at least Star Wars had some humour." 

I'm going to have to read the book at some point, and then watch it again.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Anela

[Hanahope]

Saw it yesterday.  Definitely deserves the big screen treatment if you can go.  It does a decent job at set up, but it will definitely leave people unsatisfied if part 2 isn't made.  there's a lot exposition that has to be done, since i expect there are not a lot of non-book readers who will see the film, but there was still a lot left not-said that only book readers will know, at least right now.  It is a little more complex than Star Wars.  i little quibble about how quickly some events happened, but i get that some stuff has to be cut and this was at least far superior to the 1984 version (and I know the reasons behind that).  

sort of glad they made the space navigators a bit more mobile, instead of sticking them in a spice-filled tank that is just moved around.   and I could at least see who's who among the Atreideis personnel (which the mini-series did terribly).

All of the acting I thought was really very good. 

 

 

[absnow54]

I have a hard time even reading the Wikipedia summary of Dune, but have always heard great things, so decided to give the movie a try. I thought the first half of the film was very slow and very quiet (Hans Zimmer's score was either going 150% or completely non existent), and that a lot of it could have been pared down. Once they got to Arrakis things really began to pick up, and I found myself really enjoying the movie.

I agree with others that the ending seemed abrupt. I don't know if it would have been better to end the film with Paul seeing Chani in person for the first time. It felt like they reached the end of the arc of the fall of the Atreides family, and then got a bit too far into the arc of Paul joining the Freman. I don't know, I guess the point they reached was a natural breakpoint, but it very much felt like the lull in the middle of a movie. I checked how much time was left when they started negotiating with Javier Bardem, and was surprised that there was both "only 20 minutes left" and "20 whole minutes left!" because it felt like the movie should either end right then, or go on for another hour. I should also add that I had the same problem with The Lord of the Rings.

One thing that bothered me was that they introduced the sand walk video and then proceeded to run around the desert with a normal gait for the rest of the movie. When Paul finally announced they were in sand worm territory and they needed to do the sand walk, I cheered, because it seemed like they totally forgot about that plot point.

I'll probably catch the next one, if it's made. I feel like in the age of streaming, this story would have been better told as an HBO series, but respect that a television can't hold the same scale as a movie screen.

[Jenniferbug]

On 10/23/2021 at 10:38 PM, blueray said:

I just watched this on HBO Max and didn't read the books (or see the 80's? movie). I thought it was pretty good but was lacking character or "heart" moments. Seriously, why was everything so depressing. A good story has those moments where the characters are hangout which is what makes you care about them. Also leads to back stories being told in a natural way.

Also I was surprised how many characters they killed off. Like what was with Jason Memoa's character basically committing suicide. He should have waited to decide their options and pick the best one. If fighting the best one then pick that. Seriously, Ronan would have not made that mistake ;). 

I wasn't really a fan of the flash forwards as they were distracting from the present. But I guess it's part of the story. 

Overall, it was a beatiful film and I'm sure will win awards for that, as was the score. I do hope it gets a sequel as this movie doesn't hold up without one. And hopefully the second one has more character moments. But I suppose if that wasn't in the book then they can't add it...

I read the first book many years ago and this is pretty much what my impression of it was too- all these people were dropping dead around Paul and my reaction was mostly "which one were you again? Oh well, moving on..." I didn't read any of the books beyond Dune so maybe people who were fans of the whole series have a different impression, but I didn't feel like most of the Dune characters were very fleshed out aside from Paul and maybe Jessica. I thought Dune the book was ok, but after reading summaries of the future books in the series, I decided not to continue reading. 

Hoping to watch this later on HBO Max, as it looks visually stunning! 

[DoctorAtomic]

I think that was the point of the 'House' prequels; to give the characters in Dune actual characterization. I never liked Idaho until I read his origin story. You have all these people so loyal to the Duke, and in Dune, they just say it's because he's a cool guy. The prequels at least give you something there. 

I think that's why the movies are always so hard to pull off. Say what you want, but the miniseries at least gave it some breathing room. 

[absnow54]

14 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I think that was the point of the 'House' prequels; to give the characters in Dune actual characterization. I never liked Idaho until I read his origin story. You have all these people so loyal to the Duke, and in Dune, they just say it's because he's a cool guy. The prequels at least give you something there. 

I will say, they did a terrific job casting this movie, because I think Oscar Isaac really sold the kind of guy who inspires lifelong loyalty in the limited screen time he had. 

[Ms.Moon]

I enjoyed the movie.  If they do the sequels they need someone with a fantastic facial structure to play Paul’s and Chani’s kid because both Timothee and Zendaya are gorgeous people that have these amazing cheekbones.

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

It's great to see the comments from those who have read the book .  I need to see this new version of Dune to compare to the 1984 one. That one had so many famous actors and actresses in it. And who could believe that little Alicia Witt had the child role? 

[Haleth]

I reread the book last year in anticipation of the movie and continue to think it is one of the greatest sci fi books ever.  I was happy the movie followed the book so religiously (heh) so I can understand why many people come away thinking the pacing was boring.  It really is 2.5 hrs of set up for something great to come.  But how in the world did this get greenlit without a commitment that the rest of it would be filmed?  Was it considered such a risky venture that the producers couldn't get part 2 financed?  It will be years until anyone sees part 2 and only if part 1 is deemed a success.  Will anyone be interested in it years from now?  That seems riskier than filming the whole thing at once.

[SeanC]

5 hours ago, Haleth said:

But how in the world did this get greenlit without a commitment that the rest of it would be filmed?  Was it considered such a risky venture that the producers couldn't get part 2 financed?

Yes, precisely (especially since Villeneuve's previous sci-fi film didn't do well despite being really good).

[absnow54]

Never fear, the sequel has been greenlit for October 2023.

[AimingforYoko]

2 hours ago, absnow54 said:

Never fear, the sequel has been greenlit for October 2023.

Fear is the mindkiller.

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

Awesome news about being greenlit for sequel in Oct. 2023. Lots of solid comments from those who knew the book and got__ the movie. 

[isalicat]

I've read Dune several times, starting in the late 1960s (so, yes, I'm an old) and managed to plow through two or three of sequel books. Saw the David Lynch version as really cartoonish (like Buck Rogers but without the humor). Did not even try the TV miniseries.

So, went into this (at the big movie theater this afternoon with 4 other people in attendance total :) with some trepidation as I did see Blade Runner 2 (and thought it was actually not bad but at least a half an hour too long).

I thought it was really, really good at every moment. Never lost my attention for a second - amazing casting and acting, incredible world building art direction, great pacing, not too much "explaining"...I so hope people go see this in a proper movie theater as it is a real science fiction spectacle, in the best possible way. I will probably go see it again and now anticipate the conclusion with extreme annoyance at how long we will have to wait. 😸

[xaxat]

I really enjoyed this movie. It's gorgeous, with the scale of the special effects matching the galactic scale of the books and  the performances were strong throughout.

But I think the best thing to movie did was get the politics right. There are so many factions vying for power and I thought the movie did a great job of explaining the motivations of House Atreides, Harkonnen, the Fremen, the Emperor and the Bene Gesserit. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by xaxat

[ribboninthesky1]

4 minutes ago, xaxat said:

But I think the best thing to movie did was get the politics right. There are so many factions vying for power and I thought the movie did a great job of explaining the motivations of House Atreides, Harkonnen, the Fremen, the Emperor and the Bene Gesserit. 

I haven't read the books, and only recently watched the 80s film.  I agree that the politics were intriguing, and more interesting than the Messiah stuff.  I suppose it is as others have already shared - it's been done so many times, and more effectively at that, that it comes across clunky and overwrought for me, at least on film.  

1 hour ago, isalicat said:

Saw the David Lynch version as really cartoonish (like Buck Rogers but without the humor).

I decided to watch the 80s film before this one to compare, as I had never seen it.  Setting aside the differences in special effects, the 80s version was hilariously terrible. There was a ton of talent in that film, and could not save it.  I will never watch it again, but I appreciated the unintentional comedy. 

In any case, I enjoyed this.  I hadn't seen anything with Chalamet before and I was skeptical of him.  But I think he brought more gravitas to Paul vs Kyle MacLachlan's portrayal.  Even without the Messiah stuff, I could believe in him becoming a leader. 

Francesca Annis as Lady Jessica had a lot less to do and less screen time.  And yet I thought her portrayal was more...convincing, I guess.  Rebecca Ferguson came off rather bland to me.

As for characters who died, I'd hoped that Sharon Duncan-Brewster's Dr. Lynes would have lived. Duncan too.  

I'm in for the sequel.  Whether I see it in the theater or wait for the streaming version will be determined by when it is released. 

 

 

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

On 10/24/2021 at 3:32 PM, Captain Carrot said:

To me the interesting part of the 'boy messiah' part is that it was made up by the Bene Gesserit. They created the Fremen prophecy in case it was every needed by someone in their order. So, I see it as a subversion of the White Savior trope.

Wasn't even thinking White Savior trope, it was more the biblical parallels that made me cringe.

[Captain Carrot]

I had to show this ad for the Dune board game that is based on the NEW BOOK the movie is based on. Thirty seconds of research would let them know that Dune was published in 1965.

 

[AimingforYoko]

2 hours ago, Captain Carrot said:

I had to show this ad for the Dune board game that is based on the NEW BOOK the movie is based on. Thirty seconds of research would let them know that Dune was published in 1965.

 

Everything's relative. Compared to say....the Gutenberg Bible, Dune is a mere pup!

[Door County Cherry]

On 10/26/2021 at 7:21 AM, Haleth said:

 But how in the world did this get greenlit without a commitment that the rest of it would be filmed?  Was it considered such a risky venture that the producers couldn't get part 2 financed?  It will be years until anyone sees part 2 and only if part 1 is deemed a success.  Will anyone be interested in it years from now?  That seems riskier than filming the whole thing at once.

Villeneuve wanted to do both of them back but was told no.  He said he's glad for that now because it was exhausting but I am surprised they let him tell half a story.  I do think it was a bit risky.  Dune is considered hard to adapt.  

And if the second one is a success, he'd like to adapt Messiah to sort of wrap this part of the story. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't get that. They aren't filming a movie and a sequel like Matrix 2 and 3. Dune is a singular story. It's going to be two years till the next installment. That's a lifetime in show biz. I mean, the second part is ridiculous. I can't imagine it wouldn't kill. You'd think from a production standpoint, they'd want to hit the second part by next spring. 

[Rickster]

14 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I don't get that. They aren't filming a movie and a sequel like Matrix 2 and 3. Dune is a singular story. It's going to be two years till the next installment. That's a lifetime in show biz. I mean, the second part is ridiculous. I can't imagine it wouldn't kill. You'd think from a production standpoint, they'd want to hit the second part by next spring. 

As mentioned, given the difficulty and spotty financial success of past efforts to film Dune, it could have been a choice from the financial backers of filming it in two parts or not filming it at all. Covid might have affected the timetable for this, too.

In hindsight, of course they should have filmed the whole book, even if it was released in two parts.

[SeanC]

15 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I don't get that. They aren't filming a movie and a sequel like Matrix 2 and 3. Dune is a singular story. It's going to be two years till the next installment. That's a lifetime in show biz. I mean, the second part is ridiculous. I can't imagine it wouldn't kill. You'd think from a production standpoint, they'd want to hit the second part by next spring. 

If the first part wasn’t a success, the second part wouldn’t be either.  Filming it all at once would have cost twice as much money.

[wanderingstar]

I watched this on HBO Max this morning and thought it was ok. Spectacular to look at, but also strangely inert. I didn't mind the abrupt ending, which was very shades of Fellowship of the Ring. The performances were fine, but the character development was so lacking that I didn't feel like I had a character to "hold onto" in the narrative if you know what I mean. I think the reviewer in the Irish Times summed up my thoughts on this movie:

Quote

There are moments when the immersive, magnificent production design (by Patrice Vermette) and Jacqueline West and Bob Morgan’s costumes make one think “This is what cinema is for”; there are many more moments when the viewer feels trapped in the world’s most expensive perfume commercial. Dystopia. By Timothée.

I did appreciate Jason Momoa in his role as Duncan. Wish we'd seen more of him - and Josh Brolin too.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Gillian Rosh

[rmontro]

On 10/24/2021 at 5:47 PM, Black Knight said:

I thought the ending was perfect. I'm not really sure how else they could have ended it given that so much more of the story has yet to come.

I didn't find the ending abrupt.  I knew I was at about the end of the movie and it was obvious they were never going to get to all of those plot points.  But even if there is never a sequel, I thought that all the visions and foreshadowings gave a good enough of an idea of where the story was going to satisfy. 

[tennisgurl]

Most of what I know about Dune is what I know through pop culture Osmosis and watching the trippy Kyle MacLachlan adaptation years ago, but my partner is a BIG fan so he filled me in on a lot of other things part of the story that did not make it into the movie. I really enjoyed the movie, it was beautifully shot, had an amazing cast, and I liked a lot of the subtle world building. In fact, the acting was all so good and they all managed to sell their characters so quickly, I was really disappointed that almost everyone died by the end of the movie! Its impressive how much they managed to explain in such a short amount of time without feeling like we're drowning in exposition, it didn't take me long to figure out who all of the factions are and what they all want. The ending did feel abrupt, but I think that was the point, this is very clearly the first part of a multipart story and you could see that this was almost more of a prequel/set up for the big battle that will happen. 

I think they especially nailed the epic scope of the story, it really did feel like a full space opera while also feeling like a very lived in world. Mixing the practical with the stylistic. 

It was certainly better then the 80s version, which was less epic adventure and more like a weird come down after snorting the contents of your spice rack. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by tennisgurl

[DoctorAtomic]

That's an interesting take because just from reading the books, it always struck me as a dirty (I don't know if that's the right word), but it's not a clean sci fi series. There's things that need to be fixed. You have to do things - put the suit on before you go out. People have to build stuff. 

[Jan Spears]

I saw it yesterday in a (non-Imax) theater. I've neither read the source novel nor seen the failed big screen adaptation from 1984. But I did read a summary of the novel before I saw it so I would at least have a passing familiarity with the characters and plot.

That being said, I enjoyed the movie very much. I didn't feel like the movie dragged at all despite being 2 1/2 hours+ in length. I thought the amount of exposition was just right for the 'lay person' who hadn't read the novel. The script did an excellent job of establishing the various houses and explaining (within reason) why they were at daggers drawn (literally) with one another. (The movie could have profited from offering a little more explanation related to the Bene Gesserit sisterhood and its motivations. But then the not knowing exactly what they were doing and why only added to their mystery.)

It is true that there isn't a conventional hero in the movie. But this strikes me as being consistent with Frank Herbert's original novel. The characters in Dune find themselves in a universe where there are no heroic options. Duke Leto probably comes the closest in trying to balance his obligations to the Emperor with his desire to make peace with the Fremen. Ultimately, though, he fails in this impossible endeavor due to all the cross-currents that exist between the various houses.

The cast was superb and there really was no weak link. I thought the actors who comprised the House of Atreides were especially fine. Praise must go also to Charlotte Rampling as Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam, who gave a master class in how to command the screen during her brief appearances.

I have saved the best for last: the movie is a visual marvel and looks incredible on a big screen. The detail that went into creating the various worlds of the Atreides, Harkonnen and Fremen is outstanding. There are too many brilliant images to mention but I especially liked the contrast between the technology in play and the spartan, minimalist living quarters in which the characters actually live and work. (And a special mention to the scene where the Bene Gesserit disembark from their ship in the middle of a driving rain storm -- absolutely stunning.)

Edited November 6, 2021 by Jan Spears

[Sandman]

On 10/23/2021 at 11:38 PM, blueray said:

thought it was pretty good but was lacking character or "heart" moments. Seriously, why was everything so depressing.

That might be the most faithful aspect -- the book is seriously dark -- I would even say I found it joyless. There are a very few "tug-at-the-heartstrings" moments. It's clear in the book that Jessica loves the Duke (and defies her training and her orders from her Bene Gesserit superiors for that reason), and he her, but Herbert really only sketches in the relationships between the Atreides family, as I recall. I don't remember the reader getting much from the Duke's point of view in the way that both Paul and Jessica are viewpoint characters. It's years since I read the book, though. I thought Oscar Isaac and Jason Momoa both brought real and necessary warmth to their roles, as did Josh Brolin. I agree with the comment upthread that Rebecca Ferguson was the MVP, except that I found Jessica was overtly fearful in the movie in ways I don't think she would show outwardly in the book (but ya gotta get the Litany Against Fear in there somehow!) Chalamet did fine, I think, but the really heavy lifting is yet to come for him, I'd say.

I found the movie a fully immersive experience -- I saw in the theatre tonight -- and both visually and musically it's very compelling. I'm not sure I agree with observations I have seen elsewhere that it's ponderous and slow. It's a long-ass movie, but I thought it moved through its business quite briskly, what with someone basically trying to kill Paul every, what? Six and a half minutes or so?

I can't decide if I like the way this movie rendered the Voice or not. It's slightly less clunky than the Lynch version, but I always think of the Voice as being more subtle and insidious than the way it's been represented in any adaptation so far. I mostly liked the gom jabbar scene. I thought Chalamet rose to that occasion admirably. I found myself wondering if the Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam realized that she'd made a lifelong enemy in that moment. But I agree with @Jan Spears that Rampling commands the screen pretty effortlessly.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Sandman
clarifying where the "ponderous and slow" observations came from.

[Jan Spears]

I thought the characters who comprised House Atreides had heart but it was heart bound by a stoic quality. Leto showed his love for Paul during their conversation on the cliffs overlooking the ocean, and for Jessica when he told her he should have married her. Jessica, Duncan and Gurney all show their great love for Paul even if they have to be very hard on him in so doing. Ultimately, though, House Atreides' heart is limited by the adversaries they face on all sides.

17 hours ago, Sandman said:

I mostly liked the gom jabbar scene. I thought Chalamet rose to that occasion admirably. I found myself wondering if the Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam realized that she'd made a lifelong enemy in that moment. But I agree with @Jan Spears that Rampling commands the screen pretty effortlessly.

This was one of Timothee Chalamet's best scenes. Not only did Paul go toe-to-toe with the Reverend Mother but Timothee went toe to toe with Charlotte Rampling and more than held his own.

I've been thinking a lot about the set design for this movie. I finally realized that the interiors of the various palaces reminded me of the sets from the Elizabeth Taylor-Richard Burton-Rex Harrison Cleopatra: spartan and luxurious at the same time. I think the movie absolutely nailed a vision of the future where advanced technology (i.e. interstellar space travel) coexists comfortably with actual structures that harken back to ancient times.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Jan Spears

[Browncoat]

I saw this in the theatre last night, and was surprised at how much I enjoyed it.  I read the books ages ago, and only have a vague recollection of the story, but I was hesitant about a 2.5 hour movie.  I was not bored or distracted at all.  The time flew by for me, though there were a few occasions where I was briefly confused whether we were in reality or in one of Paul's visions.

The sound, though, was definitely an issue.  Whoever mixed it did a terrible job.  I get that some parts did merit a loudness, but not to the expense of the dialogue.  There has to be a happy medium somewhere.

Visually it was spectacular.  I even liked the sand worms.  

[lasu]

I watched this in the theater, and I went in completely cold and knew absolutely nothing.  I didn't find it terribly hard to understand or follow, though I did spend about 10 minutes thinking, "THIS IS ALL OVER SOME FUCKING OREGANO??"  I also didn't understand why Jessica needed Paul to be her champion instead of just using her special voice.  But otherwise, I enjoyed it just fine without knowing anything about it beforehand, and I wasn't surprised by an ending that made it clear there would be a sequel (I did know part two had been greenlit when I went into watch this one).

[SeanC]

3 hours ago, lasu said:

I also didn't understand why Jessica needed Paul to be her champion instead of just using her special voice. 

As Stilgar says, Jessica is a weirding woman (Sayyadina, in Fremen terminology). A person isn’t allowed to challenge them directly as a result of that status.

[Danny Franks]

Visually, this movie was stunning. Villeneuve does incredibly beautiful shots, on a scale that no one else in Hollywood can match. That was the main reason I wanted to see this movie on the big screen, and I wasn't disappointed. Things like those massive ship/tube things in orbit, the scale of the landing craft, the impossibly huge scale of the sand worms, it was all breath-taking, and combined beautifully with Villeneuve's muted colour palette.

And the sound design was incredible as well. Jarring and alien sounding and it worked really well with the visuals to convey a real sense of otherness.

Unfortunately, the plot is another matter. I read about two thirds of the book, years ago, so had vague memories of how the story went up to the immediate aftermath of the attack, but even I was struggling to explain why any of it happened - why did the emperor order the Harkonnens to leave Arrakis so he could give it to Atreides, only to secretly back Harkonnen's return and destruction of Atreides? 'Because he was jealous of our power' doesn't make sense when they've just explained that Harkonnen was making billions a year from the Spice. How were Atreides more powerful than them and more of a threat? I don't know.

Who are the other great houses that Paul casually mentioned in the final act? I don't know. And how are any of them a threat to an emperor who has entire planets full of the best soldiers in the universe? I don't know that either.

The grimdark of the army planet, where it looked like thousands were being sacrificed to bless the soldiers, could have come straight out of Warhammer 40K, and that painted a lot of the picture of what kind of emperor this is that we're dealing with. So I guess we're just to assume he's venal, paranoid and vicious? That still doesn't explain why Atreides, of all the houses, was considered the most dangerous. Especially when they're shown to be as incompetent and unprepared as they were here.

My girlfriend, who knows nothing about the books, said she could barely make out any of the reasoning for anything that was going on, other than Paul being Space Jesus.

Which is the crux of my biggest issue with the plot - we are constantly given interesting, cool characters who I want to know more about, but then they sacrifice themselves for the skinny, whiny, white boy saviour - Duke Leto, Gurney, Duncan, Kynes were all people I'd rather know more about than Paul the Chosen One. The only one who doesn't die is the weepy mother who seems like she could have stopped a lot of this from happening if she wasn't so cultified.

These aren't really Villeneuve's mistakes, as I'm pretty sure I remember the book following the same story beats, and I know I lost interest around about the part where Paul and Jessica escape. But was Paul as bland and milquetoast in the books as Chalamet is here? I don't remember. I'm certainly not buying the notion that Zendaya's capable and tough warrior woman would fall for him.

Will I see part two? Yes, because the visuals are just too good to not see on the big screen. Do I want a much better story and a lot more from the main actor and the character he plays? Absolutely.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Danny Franks

[lasu]

27 minutes ago, SeanC said:

As Stilgar says, Jessica is a weirding woman (Sayyadina, in Fremen terminology). A person isn’t allowed to challenge them directly as a result of that status.

I get that - but that doesn't mean she couldn't use her special voice right?  Like if I was a weirding woman, and someone one was all, I can't  challenge you so I'm going to fight your son to the death, I'd be like, [special voice]KILL YOURSELF INSTEAD[/special voice] and call it a day.  

 

[DoctorAtomic]

3 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

How were Atreides more powerful than them and more of a threat? I don't know.

iirc, it was really only politics-wise. The Atreides were more liked by the other Houses and could garner more support; like, if in a parliament, the minority parties allied to force a vote of no confidence. Sure, Corrino has the best soldiers, but not against literally everyone else. You set up the Atreides, you're basically cutting off the head. Or, Corrino could just be petty that everyone just genuinely liked Leto. You bring Harkonnen in on it because they hate them anyway. 

I don't think necessarily there needs to be more than vague 'court politics' to kick off the action. 

[SeanC]

3 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Unfortunately, the plot is another matter. I read about two thirds of the book, years ago, so had vague memories of how the story went up to the immediate aftermath of the attack, but even I was struggling to explain why any of it happened - why did the emperor order the Harkonnens to leave Arrakis so he could give it to Atreides, only to secretly back Harkonnen's return and destruction of Atreides? 'Because he was jealous of our power' doesn't make sense when they've just explained that Harkonnen was making billions a year from the Spice. How were Atreides more powerful than them and more of a threat? I don't know.

Because the Atreides were likeable; Baron Harkonnen isn't popular with anybody.  The perceived threat from the Atreides was, as Duke Leto noted, that the other houses of the Imperium looked to them for leadership.

3 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Who are the other great houses that Paul casually mentioned in the final act? I don't know.

Why do you need to know? None of them are relevant to the story.

3 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

The grimdark of the army planet, where it looked like thousands were being sacrificed to bless the soldiers, could have come straight out of Warhammer 40K, and that painted a lot of the picture of what kind of emperor this is that we're dealing with.

As an aside, Warhammer is actually heavily inspired by Dune.

2 hours ago, lasu said:

I get that - but that doesn't mean she couldn't use her special voice right?  Like if I was a weirding woman, and someone one was all, I can't  challenge you so I'm going to fight your son to the death, I'd be like, [special voice]KILL YOURSELF INSTEAD[/special voice] and call it a day.  

When in Rome, do as the Romans do -- they're among the Fremen, they have to abide by their cultural norms if they want to get anything done.

[Danny Franks]

14 hours ago, SeanC said:

Because the Atreides were likeable; Baron Harkonnen isn't popular with anybody.  The perceived threat from the Atreides was, as Duke Leto noted, that the other houses of the Imperium looked to them for leadership.

Why do you need to know? None of them are relevant to the story.

Because they're being presented as both a contributing factor to Atreides' fall and a possible source of Atreides' salvation?

[BlackberryJam]

@Danny Franks I think you might have just missed some of the dialogue, depending on how you watched it. All my non-Dune friends who've watched it understood the plot easily. I do think some theaters have bad sound mixing.

[SeanC]

8 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Because they're being presented as both a contributing factor to Atreides' fall and a possible source of Atreides' salvation?

All you need to know is that they exist.  The story doesn't suffer for the lack of more detail.

Now, I always enjoy worldbuilding details of that sort, but in the main story here it's immaterial what the other houses' names are, etc.

[Jan Spears]

On 11/11/2021 at 2:05 PM, Danny Franks said:

why did the emperor order the Harkonnens to leave Arrakis so he could give it to Atreides, only to secretly back Harkonnen's return and destruction of Atreides? 'Because he was jealous of our power' doesn't make sense when they've just explained that Harkonnen was making billions a year from the Spice. How were Atreides more powerful than them and more of a threat? I don't know.

That still doesn't explain why Atreides, of all the houses, was considered the most dangerous. Especially when they're shown to be as incompetent and unprepared as they were here.

By directing the Atreides to assume control over Arrakis, the Emperor deprived them of "home field" advantage (their native planet) in the event of an attack. Consigned to a harsh, alien (hohoho) environment, the Atreides were on the back foot from moment one and were easily overwhelmed when the combined Harkonnen/Imperium attack came. 

The Atreides were dangerous to the Emperor because of the intense loyalty Duke Leto inspired in those around him. The great admiration in which Leto was held made the Atreides powerful far beyond their material and military means.  Leto inspired something deeply positive in people and this -- more than anything -- would have threatened the Emperor. 

I didn't think of the Atreides as being incompetent and unprepared. They inherited a world that had been sabotaged by the Harkonnen and didn't have enough time (a matter of days) before the Emperor launched an all-out attack. Also, the doctor betrayed them, which allowed the Harkonnen/Imperium forces to penetrate the palace.

 

[Chyromaniac]

3 hours ago, Jan Spears said:

The Atreides were dangerous to the Emperor because of the intense loyalty Duke Leto inspired in those around him. The great admiration in which Leto was held made the Atreides powerful far beyond their material and military means.  Leto inspired something deeply positive in people and this -- more than anything -- would have threatened the Emperor

I haven’t read Dune myself- but a YouTuber I generally like and respect (Matthew Colville) has posted a bunch of videos about it over time.  One of his contentions is that at least part of why Leto was a threat to the Emperor, is because his advisors (Gurney, Duncan, and the Mentat) had basically discovered that due to the harsh conditions on Arrakis, the Fremen were actually just about as capable as warriors as the Emperor’s personal army.  Therefore, Leto (and his house) had to be eliminated before they could act on that knowledge. Does that track with how people generally understand the book story?

[Grimnar]

5 minutes ago, Chyromaniac said:

I haven’t read Dune myself- but a YouTuber I generally like and respect (Matthew Colville) has posted a bunch of videos about it over time.  One of his contentions is that at least part of why Leto was a threat to the Emperor, is because his advisors (Gurney, Duncan, and the Mentat) had basically discovered that due to the harsh conditions on Arrakis, the Fremen were actually just about as capable as warriors as the Emperor’s personal army.  Therefore, Leto (and his house) had to be eliminated before they could act on that knowledge. Does that track with how people generally understand the book story?

Yes, this is mentioned in book that Empreror's soldiers(sardaukar) are superior soldiers due to harsh enviroment of Salusa Secundus. As Dune is even more hostile planet, fremens are considered by Atreides as potentialy better soldiers than sardaukars. In book they wanted to allied with fremens and recruit them to their army before Emperor-Harkonnen planned attack. In book are several parts where is mentioned that fremens ambushed sardaukars and killed them all with minimal losses on fremen's side.

As mentioned above by other posters. Emperor was afraid of Leto's influence on other Great Houses and that Atreides army started to be on same quality(but smaller in numbers than Emperor's army) as sardaukar, which Emperor saw as threat to his position. Hence he allied secretly with Harkonnens to eliminate Atreides and prepared trap in form of Arrakis.

[Zonk]

I was just really bored through all of this. The political intrigue is Kindergarten-level. Probably couldn't even hold a candle to later seasons of game of thrones, let alone the first ones

The characters are kinda interesting, a little and the acting was top notch. But I'm just not at all into all this prophecy nonsense and that seems to be 90% of what Dune is. I don't understand why all the scifi nerds were so down on the ending of New Battlestar Galactica (which I was fine with), but love Dune so much. Dune has like ten times the religious bullshit that show had.

I've given dune a chance in a few medias, and the only one that did it for me was the game Dune 2000. Westwood in its heyday. I guess I have to conclude that the main story of Dune just isn't for me. But like I said above, I really don't understand how it is for any scifi fan. Is there an explaination? What do other people see in it that I can't?

Being bored during the movie makes my mind wonder and I get questions into my head, like:

If interstellar travel is only possible with spice, like the movie tells us, how did humans get to Arakis in the first place?

How come they can't just synthesize spice? Can't be that hard for humans who've mastered interstellar travel.

How does Arakis's ecosystem work? What do those giant sandworm eat? The occasional human or desert mouse can't be enough to sustain them? How do they shit out so much spice without ever eating anything? How is there free oxygen on this planet without plants? Do the worms make that, too? With what energy?

Why are their shields stupid and let slow objects through? What could possibly be the reason for that other than that sword fights look way cooler on screen than gun fights?

Why didn't witch-mom use her voice on the Fremen? Did I miss something where they established it doesn't work on them?

How can one guy kill all the guards, disable the shields, etc., etc.? Does that seem reasonable with a milatary stationed there that is on high alert? Not to me.

What are those big space tubes? Are those jump gates? I thought the only way to interstellar travel was with spice and folding space with it? How do jump gates factor into that and how can you see through to the other side?

[Jan Spears]

16 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

I haven’t read Dune myself- but a YouTuber I generally like and respect (Matthew Colville) has posted a bunch of videos about it over time.  One of his contentions is that at least part of why Leto was a threat to the Emperor, is because his advisors (Gurney, Duncan, and the Mentat) had basically discovered that due to the harsh conditions on Arrakis, the Fremen were actually just about as capable as warriors as the Emperor’s personal army.  Therefore, Leto (and his house) had to be eliminated before they could act on that knowledge. Does that track with how people generally understand the book story?

I haven't read the book so I can't speak to that. Based on what is shown in the movie, the Emperor's plan was already well in train before Leto made his overtures to the Fremen. What we're left with is Leto's personal charisma and popularity as the motivating forces behind the Emperor's actions.

I thought I had missed a lot the first time I saw Dune so I went to see it again this weekend. Since I knew where the plot was headed, I could concentrate on the dialogue and situations. I have to say the movie really does explain everything in the course of 2 1/2 hours. Even things like Paul's visions and the motivations of the Bene Gesserit became much clearer on second viewing. I still had some issues with the sound, particularly during the scene when Jessica is reciting her prayers outside the room where Paul and the Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam are confronting one another. The sound effects are too loud and Rebecca Ferguson is speaking too softly to understand what she is saying.

On 11/6/2021 at 10:14 PM, Sandman said:

I mostly liked the gom jabbar scene. I thought Chalamet rose to that occasion admirably. I found myself wondering if the Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam realized that she'd made a lifelong enemy in that moment.

On rewatching the movie, I realized this is one of Timothee Chalamet's best scenes. There's a moment during the test where he raises his head and conveys pure hatred toward the Reverend Mother with nothing more than his eyes. Chalamet is also very good in the scene where Paul and Jessica are shielding themselves from the sand and he begins having visions. When Jessica tries to comfort him, he erupts at her with all his might for her role in what he is metamorphosing into. Chalamet really impresses in that scene.

One thing that continued to puzzle me, though, was the scene between Jessica and Shadout Mapes. What was the point of Shadout Mapes giving Jessica the blade when the blade isn't used (that I can remember) later in the movie? During the climactic knife fight, Paul uses Chani's blade.

One final thought: The movie was even more of a visual marvel on second viewing than it was on the first. I found myself awestruck by some of those frescoes from the Atreides palace on Arrakis -- they were that beautiful.