Grimnar

Well, in novel, if everything would be all according to plan regarding Kwisatz Haderach, then his father would be Feyd and great grandfather would be Vladimir Harkonnen. So it would be challenge for BG to supress Harkonenn's psychotic side. In novel Feyd is not openly bloodthirsty or psychotic as in the movie. Actually in novel baron's plan is to replace Rabban as governor of Arrakis with Feyd where Feyd would be seen by population as saviour from Rabban(originally Piter was supposed to be governor of Arrakis) - play how to gather loyalty of Arrakis.

Good episode but seriously, what is this trend that one episode is 50 minutes, next one is 45, next 35, next 42, etc? Can all episodes have some running time with exception of first and last episodes? I don't know how I feel that now everyone can learn how to use the Force with enough training. If it really required "only" training, hard work and talent is benefit, why Luke just didn't recruited some people from Rebel Aliance and started training them? I hope that this was last time I saw that lightsaber deflected fire from starfighter(I know that it was already in Rebels and Kenobi) without any impact on person deflecting fire. In first two episodes I complained that they didn't mentioned that they could ask Luke for support, now I am little dissapointed that Leia wasn't in the meeting between senators and Hera. This is problem when they are hoping that no one will ask why Leia/Luke/Han/etc are not mentioned or present. Why so far every plan require that opponent will be incompetent - first episode New Republic captain and this episode Shin instead of destroying ship is shooting on Ahsoka.

I think for these who didn't see Rebels or don't know at least basic about story and characters can be little lost before they catch up in later episodes. As mentioned before pace was little slow. I wonder if they are going to explain why they didn't involve/mentioned Luke so far. While Ahsoka is more experienced than Luke, another Jedi would help if they are going againts several Force users. About the workers loyal to Empire, there is no way how New Republic is going to replace all mid to low levels workers in every big company, because they can be loyal to Empire. But I agree that there is no reason why they would be loyal to Empire as long nothing changed for them under New Republic.

From what I saw in discussions, problem wasn't lack of action as batles or swordfights but more that mostly nothing interesting happened or they were just repeating the same things(Stranger is doing magic to help and Harfoots are suspicious, Elrond is playing friendship card but has ulterior motives, Galadriel is rude, etc) or things don't make much sense. You can go slow storytelling but at the same time you can't just rush creating of first rings in 20 minutes in last episode. That's thr issue with pacing.

Yes, Halbrand could easily go with how his ancestors were illegitimate children of last king but instead we got: Ok, you got me, want to rule Middle Earth with me?

Númenor storyline is very short this episode and except death of king, nothing important happened. Stranger is one of Istari and more or less confirmed Gandalf. I have to say it was little let down as I though that 3 cultists will play bigger role in this storyline. Little suprised that Sadoc's death went without much reaction from other Harfoots and Nori's farewell little drag the flow of the storyline. Elven storyline is kind of dissapointment for me. I enjoyed the little time where they were discussing, testing, etc how to make rings(I would like that this part would be spread among more episodes). Forging of rings should be big event in the story and here it was rushed into one episode. I wonder what were intentions from writers about Galadriel. For me she was first presented as unlikable character, in previous episode she started to being more sympathetic(I think that trying to find Celeborn or at least some information about him should be part of her motivation, which would made her more sympathetic for viewers). But now we found that she was easily played by Sauron. She pushed that Halbrand should be king(IIRC he really told her that he found the sigil on dead man) based on her believe that he is hidden king and now she didn't tell anyone about Sauron being alive and knowing about rings. Making 3 rings instead of 2 isn't really good guarantee(as 9 rings is example of that). I mean what she hoped to achieve with keeping it secret. Also Sauron basicaly used similar words she will say in Fellowship so it kind of cheapen her rejection of One Ring when she rejected Sauron now. lso I think that Sauron would work better as Atannar who was there the whole time with Celebrimbor and would appeard in last episode and that forging of rings was long term project between Atannar and Celebrimbor. My thoughts on whole season: - Harfoots storyline was first for me interesting but later it soured for me when we learned that they just abond everyone who is slowing them done. So we went from supposedly tight community of hartfoots to pretty ruthless people(just take their cart). I wonder how it will fit in next seasons to overall storyline as Harfoots, were except meteor, removed from other stories - Númenor lacked greatness and so far their downfall will be without the impact on me where we would went from noble Númenor to Númenor which was exploiting people from Middle Earth, were jealous of elves, etc - Dwarves part of story was good but I still think that we should have Celebrimbor as friend of Durin(or Narvi) as it would better build his character. In next season we will get probably "power struggle" between Durin and his father. - Galadriel storyline really didn't click with me as for most of the time she wasn't very likeable character and last episode made her kind of responsible for the future mess. - Adar was great and you could at least understand his motivation. - what didn't work for me was scale of the world. It seemed to me like we get to some location(Moria, Southland, etc) but we were restricted to only 1-3 sets, e. g. Southland storyline happend basicaly in one village. Which is kind of in opposite when creators felt that Jackson showed only small part of the world in LotR movies. - writting and storytelling were on low end for me. Dialogs tried to be with deeper meaning but came as weird and for most storylines we kind of have handwave many illogical things, e.g. Halbrand being lost king of Souhtland doesn't make sense after last episode, shouldn't people in Southland and Arondir know that king or central authority wasn't there for 1000 years?, the whole fading of elves and mithril storyline. - I think that authors also relied to much on easter eggs from LotR movies(follow your nose if you are in doubt, balrog, harfoots or even some scenes were kind of copied from Jackson's movies). I don't mind easter eggs but they shouldn't be too obvious. - I am little afraid of the many mystery boxes. We still don't know why Númenor hate elves, what happend to Anarion or what is doing Isildur now, fading of elves, Sauron's plan from early episodes(why was he on the raft, etc), who were the cultists or from where they get their power, why Istar has "amnesia", etc. I'm afraid that in future many of these boxes will be left without answer. Correct me if I'm wrong but Tolkien didn't have many mysteries in stories(I mean mysteries as there is some turncloack, etc). - visuals and music were good to great - I have to say that I was little dissapointed how little of lore authors used. I know that adaptions have to make some cuts, simplification, etc but I didn't expect that they would change it so much(making elven rings before 9 and 7 and with Sauron's help, Númenor as isolated nation, mithril, etc). Overall I think that season was ok(average to little above average, 6/10) but I am not sure how many people from group which didn't love the show(or hate it) will return to next season as next season is in 2+ years.

For me so far it isn't good story, at least how it was executed, on paper it could look good. Reasons for me, why it is not working, are that there are too many questions for which we will not get probably answers. Like how they know that elves will fade away in year? If they would drop some hints that elves are getting weaker, etc but so far it is only manifested in infected tree. Gil-galad and Celebrimbor are expecting that mithril will work based on story which even Elrond doesn't belive? Also how story about battle on top of Misty Mountains spread? We can't ignore that Galadriel, Gil-galad, elves in general would be witnesses to many events and some other elves had to be present during battle so they can tell this story(and how would they know that it created new metal as result of elf and balrog battle). Also that Elrond is spying on his friend because dwarves have secret(so what, elves have secrets) and then broke his oath to Durin in next episode and it is treated as no big deal. So far it is not executed well and they have just one episode to make it better.

If I recall well, Lonely Mountain was founded by refugees from Moria in Third Age(balrog wake up in books in Third Age or at least let his presence know and destroyed dwarf kingdom in Moria) so while there should be dwarves in Blue Mountains or Iron Hills(but I think they should be still Durin's folk according to book), Lonely Mountain kingdom doesn't exist at this point. And ring from Lonely Mountain is ring which received Durin in Second Age. I thought about Theo and Waldreg as possible nazguls but dismissed them as they don't fit the requirements(yet).

2. I think ents were in trailers for this show, so maybe they will be in last episode(probably will save Harfoots). 3. Yes, Halbrand's reputation among Southlanders doesn't make sense.And travel to Lindon should take weeks/months, not sure that seriously injured Halbrand can make it(probably another teleportion between locations) unless he is really Sauron. 4. I hope there will be no love triangle. 6. And that was just leaf, the bucket in Fellowship had to feel for balrog as bomb. 7. The fake out deaths were kind of annoying and only character missing is character we know that can't die yet(Theo, Bronwyn, Valandil or Arondir would be better as we don't know their ultimate fates). Yes, I hoped that we will get to know more potential ringbearers. Men should be kings/lords and so far only Kemen is kind of fitting the requirements(unless Halbrand is going to be nazgul). I thought that Dwarves should be lords from 7 clans, so I am not sure that Durin will get 3 ring just for his family. And they kind of metioned other dwarf lords(Durin said that other lords agreed with elves proposal) but it wasn't clear if Durin meant lords from Moria or lords of other dwarves clans(if he meant the second then not sure how hecould break the deal to other lords before he talked with his father).

I read the article and I have to say that they contradict themselves several times. They talked as they showed map of Middle Earth in their pitch and as Jackson showed only small part of the world in movies but at the same time we saw so far only Lindon, Southland, Moria and Númenor(and usually just one set/place) when in first movie we saw Lorien, Rivendell, Moria, Shire, Bree, Mordor, Isengard. Then they talk as they know Tolkien works, are super fans, etc but are basicaly using just names from his work and no events. Also not confident that Abrams was their mentor as I'm afraid that we will get lot of mystery boxes and very few answers. Amazon is kind of hoping that this will be big hit on par with Game of Thrones show but hired creators without much experience and creators themselves talk as this is all new and difficult task for them(and IMO first season so far showed that as writers/showrunners they are out of the depth).

I don't know but for some reason this episode didn't work for me. Harfoots story is kind of meh at this point and it is really difficult to care for them when they are ready abond everyone who will slow them down. Stranger was used and when he couldn't fix the tree immediately he was send away. Does someone have theory who are these 3 strangers? Durin and Elrond's friendship is ok but I feel that Elrond should be replaced by Celebrimbor. This way his character could be better build up for future events. Now Celebrimbor is barely in the show about rings of power. Still not fan of the mithril storyline and how it can help elves when it doesn't seem that elves have just one year without it. Elrond even said this episode that he was barely tired when they had shattering stone comptetion. So it is hard for me to belive that they are affected by tree being "infected". I suppose now that dwarves didn't accidently wake up balrog because they were greedy but because they wanted to help elves. Did Disa come at the end of the episode as quite power hungry? The Southland storyline was badly written. How it happened that Galadriel and Theo, Miriel with Isildur and Valandil, Elendil, Halbrand, Bronwyn and Arondir were in same village but after the eruption it looked as they were in different places? The village was very small and they didn't meet each other? Now Númenor has colonies in Middle Earth or Pelargir is supposed to be abonded settlement? Not fan of Miriel being blind and I hope blindness is not going to be main reason why Pharazon will usurp her throne. Problem with prequels is that we know that Isildur can't die, so I assume that he is going to be Adar's prisoner. Halbrand's reputation among Southlanders feels unearned and again character which seems in one moment seriously injured is in next scene riding horse without problem. We have one episode to finish this season and it seems that this season we will not get any forging of rings of power. I wonder what will be main events for season finale.

I enjoyed this episode most so far. Probably because we focused only on "one" storyline and finaly we had some pay off(even when unfortunate for good guys) instead of setup or stalling. As someone mentioned in "no book talk", logistic of battle is not great when you think of it(villagers moved from tower to village without encountering orcs, giving up fortified position for village, etc) but it didn't disturb me during watching except of kind of weird cut when Galadriel and co is ridding in full speed in morning while it was still night in village(it didn't appear that sunrise is close) and ocassional bad CGI. Another plus point is that in night battle we still could clearly see what is happening instead of being total dark as is now in every second movie/show. And I learned that "villain throw" is tv trope. The reveal that in first wave were former villagers was good twist but it could be more impactful if we would get to know some of them more. Halbrand being promised king was kind of meh for me, I hoped that they would prefer(at least villagers) Bronwyn as their leader since she did most of work in first place. I wonder if Galadriel will have some change in character after her talk with Adar and that her obssession with vengeance is not good. And little strange that Galadriel didn't check what was so important about the weapon. Isildur talking about that real Númenor existing no more was little weird when we still even don't know why they hate elves. Maybe I missed it but do we know who build the dam? One of the criticism I read and seems kind of valid is that so far the plot in Southland seems very small scale. Like in this battle were involved 300 soldiers from Númenor, around 50 villagers and probably few hundreds orcs and that seems all, like there is no more information that orcs are attacking on villages across whole Southland etc.

I think that bolded part can be problematic, for people who know timeline of Second Age or remember from Fellowship movie part where Gandalf found Isildurs' scroll, that we are at more than 3000 years since start of Second Age. If only thing Galadriel found since then was strange mark which she couldn't decrypt without Númenor's library, it is not difficult to believe that other elves will dismissed her as obssessed with Sauron. Without evidence for centuries, it is not hard to believe that others will ignore Galadriel. And it is not helping that Galadrielis writen as character without any people's skill. This is of course undermined by Gil-Galad when he admitted to Elrond that if they will not have mithril, Middle-earth will be ocuppied by army of darkness. So if you know that Sauron is still threat and not obsession of Galadriel, then why you are sending her away and removing elves from Southland.

As was mentioned in thread for previous episode, we need some timeline for how much time has passed since first episode. Southland arc seems as it is just week, Galadriel's arc few weeks and Durin and Elrond's can be few months. Writing is still questionable. There is no sense, logic or emotional impact behind most storylines. Númenor is going to send 500 soldiers(with no experience and with very minimal training) to save people from orcs based on outdated information(no information about size of the enemy's army, etc), Gil-Galad is competing with Galadriel about most unlikable character, Elrond can't keep secret even for one episode and the plot with mithril doesn't make much sense, still unknown reason why Númenor hates elves, etc. For me this show is just average. It is not bad but at same time it is not good enough and if it wouldn't be based(very very very loosly based) on Tolkien's work, I would probably stop watching it or if there would't be improvement I wouldn't watch next season.

I think that writing/storytelling is main issue for this show. First half of the season is gone and the story still needs to pick up pace so we don't end with first half which is "snooze" and second which will be "rushed". Most characters are not writen very well(at least for me). They are either annoying and/or unlikable(Galadriel, Theo, ...) or I have to create some connection with them because so far they are not very interesting(Elrond, Gil-Galad, ...). So far only Durin, Dis and Nori are likeable or interesting for me. Also I feel like we are missing some scenes. I would like to see how orcs captured Arondir's friends, how Celembrimbor negotiated with dwarves(maybe promised one of the seven rings), etc. On other hand some writing is very contrived - Numenor has information about Morgoth's backup plan, Arondir is freed with weapons so he can save Theo, Númenor's support didn't feel earned, elves didn't notice that orcs are destroying villages in Southland, Elrond is spying on Durin because Celebrimbor complained that dwarves have secret(I hope that fate of Celebrían and Arwen isn't beacuse Elrond broke his promise to Durin), etc. Regarding Númenor I was afraid that compressed timeline will hurt their story and I think it is the case. We will not see that Numenor started their fall before Sauron was captured. It seems that they live in isolation from rest of the world so there isn't how they changed they behaviour in Middle-earth where they went from explorers/teachers to opressing people in Middle-earth. Also it seems that they dislike of elves is not from jealousy but from being afraid of "loosing job".