S05.E05: Look Who's Squawking

[Marley]

There is a gate into their house so I doubt the guest house is just used by anyone. I think it’s part of there place but who knows.

[Baltimore Betty]

16 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Michele pawning off the baby so he wouldn’t have to be alone with it was predictable and sad not giving Ashlee any time for herself and making her feel like it’s harming the child for her to be away from it.. he’s gross 

What about a baby being away from the father for 3 days, that is ok? Michael was tap dancing as fast as he could to convince Ashley to take the baby with her, she said yes right off the bat but he just kept telling her how she should take the baby.  I think Ashley knew he was going to go out and misbehave when she was away, maybe there is an understanding between them?

[biakbiak]

8 minutes ago, Marley said:

There is a gate into their house so I doubt the guest house is just used by anyone. I think it’s part of there place but who knows.

Not anyone but people who own homes in that vacation community.

It’s extremely common. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by biakbiak

[LaurelleJ]

43 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

For all we know, Wendy could have asked a producer if she could bring her baby and the producer could have told her no.  That would explain her upset when she saw Ashley with Dean.  

Exactly what I was thinking. Another possibility is that Wendy didn't actually want to bring her child and the producer "encouraged" her to make it a source of conflict. 

[biakbiak]

2 minutes ago, LaurelleJ said:

Exactly what I was thinking. Another possibility is that Wendy didn't actually want to bring her child and the producer "encouraged" her to make it a source of conflict. 

Even if that was the case she still chose to do it and in the manner that she dId.

[LaurelleJ]

6 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Even if that was the case she still chose to do it and in the manner that she dId.

Yeah, it's a show, and they are expected to "deliver".

[biakbiak]

5 minutes ago, LaurelleJ said:

Yeah, it's a show, and they are expected to "deliver".

She’s a person with a career outside the show, plenty of people don’t react in that manner. Blaming production for their actions is ridiculous. Hell half of Candiace’s disputable behavior happened between seasons on SM.

[Neurochick]

I can see Wendy getting upset when Ashley brought her baby, but her meltdown at dinner that night was uncalled for, especially if she sees herself above Ashley. 

21 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Even if that was the case she still chose to do it and in the manner that she dId.

Nothing wrong with Wendy getting upset.  But 4 Degrees of Wendy is supposed to be a smart woman.  I would have assumed that production was trying to set me up, and I don't even have 4 degrees.

[LaurelleJ]

28 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

She’s a person with a career outside the show, plenty of people don’t react in that manner. Blaming production for their actions is ridiculous. Hell half of Candiace’s disputable behavior happened between seasons on SM.

I don't disagree. It's not like production made her read the script verbatim. Only saying that these situations are encouraged by production as drama for the show. She alone chooses how to see the situation through. It was a bad look for her all around. For a newbie to keep their spot, they have to do something that keeps people talking about them. We are talking about it, so it's a success for them. 

[Rahul]

3 hours ago, laprin said:

 

This comment on Dr. Wendy’s looks made me bristle. She is an attractive woman. I hope that colorism is not a factor, but it certainly rouses my suspicions to refer to her as horrific - the darkest woman with the most afro-centric features. 

I stand by my comment about Wendy's talking head featuring the bad 80s perm and off shoulder pink sequin being horrific. I don't find Wendy as attractive as the other ladies but it has nothing to do with her skin color. I suspect her elitism and boorish behavior have colored my perspective of her. That being said, I've seen her look much better in photos that have been referenced on this show.

[Keywestclubkid]

I love how she thinks she’s above ashly with her people like you call me Dr bullshit. Last time I checked Wendy you both are on the same freaking “reality” tv show you ain’t above no one booboo

[luckyroll3]

When T'Challa launched across the room at Wendy, and then the camera panned to the rest of the ladies cowering and trembling in fear, including Robyn crouching to hide behind the counter, I almost died. I was laughing so hard I couldn't breathe! 

I kinda love, but it's also kinda sad, that Monique has enough self awareness to know that the reason she likes having T'Challa so much is because she knows he'll listen to everything she has to say [but he'll also learn to speak in the process!]. That means she thinks no one ever listens to her.  

Giselle is so petty for that, "I thought we all knew you had a nose job". And so was production for showing that side-by-side clearly showing that Candiace did (it looked like she had her nostrils trimmed or something). 

[Keywestclubkid]

45 minutes ago, luckyroll3 said:

 

Giselle is so petty for that, "I thought we all knew you had a nose job". And so was production for showing that side-by-side clearly showing that Candiace did (it looked like she had her nostrils trimmed or something). 

But I was there for it 🙂 hehe 

[drivethroo]

4 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I would believe that if 4 Degrees Wendy didn't scream at Ashley: "People like YOU call me DOCTOR."  

If Wendy were feeling superior to Black Americans because of her degrees, she'd be more likely to scream that at Candiace and Monique, not Ashley.

All of the women on this franchise have been to college and most of them have at least one degree.  Wendy is also in a Black American sorority (sorority sisters with Gizelle, as a matter of fact).  We have zero evidence to say Wendy feels superior to Black Americans because she's African; we would need to see more evidence (or any). I think Wendy has a bias against Ashley because of what Candiace may have told her about Ashley.

Quote

Actually I liked Wendy's TH look more than how she looked on the show.  The flat iron, long haired look doesn't suit her.  This comment is interesting because last night on Twitter someone wondered if Bravo was doing to her what Basketball Wives did to OG, positioning the darker skinned woman to be the "aggressive one."

 

Most of the cast has been aggressive towards another cast member so if only people of a certain hue are getting labelled as "aggressive" when most of them are, there could be a problem.  For example:

Robyn pulled up on Ashley in her restaurant (S2) and literally put her finger in Ashley's face and barked at her in the middle of the restaurant to "stay the F up out my business" but Ashley did not call Robyn "Aggressive and ferocious."

With the Wendy/Ashley fight in the kitchen, it didn't turn into an argument until after Ashley said "Well MY husband has to work".  Wendy claps back on people for a living so she started going back and forth with Ashley (but not yelling).  By the time Wendy starts finger pointing (really, talking with her hands), there are 2 people sitting in between her and Ashley.  At no time was Wendy pointing her finger in Ashley's face in the kitchen or at the dinner table later on.  Yet, Ashley said Wendy was "aggressive & ferocious."

So I'm trying to figure out why did Ashley label Wendy as aggressive but not Robyn?

Also, I looked back at when Ashley lobbed a grenade on Katie last season by saying something about the unemployed man living in Katie's house and Robyn was right there being the Apology Police, demanding Katie apologize to Ashley (Katie refused, then left the trip).

Ashley generally gets the party started with her nasty below the belt comments and Robyn & Gizelle are always right there being the Apology Police, demanding the other person apologize to Ashley when 9 times out of 10, Ashley is the one who escalated the situation in the first place.

[Neurochick]

5 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

If Wendy were feeling superior to Black Americans because of her degrees, she'd be more likely to scream that at Candiace and Monique, not Ashley.

All of the women on this franchise have been to college and most of them have at least one degree.  Wendy is also in a Black American sorority (sorority sisters with Gizelle, as a matter of fact).  We have zero evidence to say Wendy feels superior to Black Americans because she's African; we would need to see more evidence (or any). I think Wendy has a bias against Ashley because of what Candiace may have told her about Ashley.

I don't have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, just my opinion.

[LaurelleJ]

25 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Most of the cast has been aggressive towards another cast member so if only people of a certain hue are getting labelled as "aggressive" when most of them are, there could be a problem.  For example:

Robyn pulled up on Ashley in her restaurant (S2) and literally put her finger in Ashley's face and barked at her in the middle of the restaurant to "stay the F up out my business" but Ashley did not call Robyn "Aggressive and ferocious."

With the Wendy/Ashley fight in the kitchen, it didn't turn into an argument until after Ashley said "Well MY husband has to work".  Wendy claps back on people for a living so she started going back and forth with Ashley (but not yelling).  By the time Wendy starts finger pointing (really, talking with her hands), there are 2 people sitting in between her and Ashley.  At no time was Wendy pointing her finger in Ashley's face in the kitchen or at the dinner table later on.  Yet, Ashley said Wendy was "aggressive & ferocious."

So I'm trying to figure out why did Ashley label Wendy as aggressive but not Robyn?

This is an excellent point. You hit the nail on the head. IIRC Michael was HEATED that they did this. They got in a fight that she invited them to the tasting of the new menu. 

[truthaboutluv]

2 hours ago, drivethroo said:

Yet, Ashley said Wendy was "aggressive & ferocious."

Didn't she only use the word ferocious, to which Wendy's response was that she was passionate? I don't remember it being ferocious and aggressive.

2 hours ago, drivethroo said:

Also, I looked back at when Ashley lobbed a grenade on Katie last season by saying something about the unemployed man living in Katie's house

That came during an argument where Ashley confronted Katie about calling her stupid, to which Katie doubled down by saying "yeah you are stupid", to which Ashley responded that she's the one laid up with an unemployed man she just started dating. 

I guess my confusion is that we all know most of these women have been plenty messy towards and about each other numerous times. I don't see why some saying that Wendy took shit too far in THIS situation has to become an "but Ashley did and said all these things before". But no one's saying Ashley is a saint by any means.  Just that in this situation between her and Wendy, Wendy struck first and IMO, was the one who stoked the flames and created a mess that didn't need to be. 

[drivethroo]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

I don't see why some saying that Wendy took shit too far in THIS situation has to become an "but Ashley did and said all these things before". But no one's saying Ashley is a saint by any means.

Everyone on this board has said that Wendy went too far and actually does need to apologize to Ashley.

Nobody is saying that Ashley is a saint.

But cast members are being harassed into treating Ashley as a saint & delicate flower when Ashley has escalated every single quarrel she's been in and that's a problem.

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Just that in this situation between her and Wendy, Wendy struck first and IMO, was the one who stoked the flames and created a mess that didn't need to be. 

According to the clip I posted, Ashley stoked the flames, not Wendy.  Wendy was talking to Robyn & Karen.  Ashley then said "Well My Husband Had To Work" and they go back and forth over their husbands.  Then Ashley said "Well you chose to leave your child behind" and that's what sent Wendy over the edge. 

The problem is Ashley is equally messy (if not more) as the rest of the cast but when it's time for her to be held accountable, everyone has to treat her delicately while other cast members are ganged up on for a forced apology.  It's been going on since Season 1, it's a pattern, it's tiresome and it's a problem.

[qtpye]

5 hours ago, drivethroo said:

If Wendy were feeling superior to Black Americans because of her degrees, she'd be more likely to scream that at Candiace and Monique, not Ashley.

All of the women on this franchise have been to college and most of them have at least one degree.  Wendy is also in a Black American sorority (sorority sisters with Gizelle, as a matter of fact).  We have zero evidence to say Wendy feels superior to Black Americans because she's African; we would need to see more evidence (or any). I think Wendy has a bias against Ashley because of what Candiace may have told her about Ashley.

 

Most of the cast has been aggressive towards another cast member so if only people of a certain hue are getting labelled as "aggressive" when most of them are, there could be a problem.  For example:

Robyn pulled up on Ashley in her restaurant (S2) and literally put her finger in Ashley's face and barked at her in the middle of the restaurant to "stay the F up out my business" but Ashley did not call Robyn "Aggressive and ferocious."

With the Wendy/Ashley fight in the kitchen, it didn't turn into an argument until after Ashley said "Well MY husband has to work".  Wendy claps back on people for a living so she started going back and forth with Ashley (but not yelling).  By the time Wendy starts finger pointing (really, talking with her hands), there are 2 people sitting in between her and Ashley.  At no time was Wendy pointing her finger in Ashley's face in the kitchen or at the dinner table later on.  Yet, Ashley said Wendy was "aggressive & ferocious."

So I'm trying to figure out why did Ashley label Wendy as aggressive but not Robyn?

Also, I looked back at when Ashley lobbed a grenade on Katie last season by saying something about the unemployed man living in Katie's house and Robyn was right there being the Apology Police, demanding Katie apologize to Ashley (Katie refused, then left the trip).

Ashley generally gets the party started with her nasty below the belt comments and Robyn & Gizelle are always right there being the Apology Police, demanding the other person apologize to Ashley when 9 times out of 10, Ashley is the one who escalated the situation in the first place.

I am so happy that Michael is an important business man who has no time to watch his son but plenty of time to hang out with strippers. His hours must be crazy!

I think Ashley is not only depressed with PPD. I think Ashley thought this would be her million dollar baby and ticket to security in her marriage. Newborns are tough on marriages and Michael has no interest in being a daddy at his age. Her marriage is probably as shaky as ever.

[Sweet-tea]

Quote

OMG, Karen bringing up Jamal having babies with other women right to Gizelle’s face was perfection I needed for the week.  

Thank you, Karen, for stating the obvious. How is Giselle going to get past this? The stories are everywhere. 

 

Quote

Although I hate to admit it, I wouldn’t be too thrilled to have a baby on a girl’s trip whether I had a baby at home or not.

Wendy was obnoxious and rude. It probably would’ve been better for Ashley not bring the baby, but Michael was making things difficult. I felt sorry for her because her was laying on the guilt trip, probably because he wanted to go out carousing while she was gone.

Quote

I think what's not being explicitly said on the show is Gizelle, Robyn & Monique know how badly Ashley is going through PPD**, while Wendy & Candiace don't.  This is why Wendy & Candiace don't understand why everyone has to be tender tip toes around Ashley 

It’s obvious Ashley is struggling. Wendy lacks compassion. However, Ashley didn’t react well and only escalated the situation. 

Quote

I would guess a good chunk of Ashley's depression is because Michael really isn't that supportive with the baby.

I’ve seen this happen many times and it’s sad. I don’t expect it will get better. When one person doesn’t really want children and just goes along to appease the other, it strains the marriage. The child also suffers. It happened with my sister. Her husband was an absent father. They divorced when my nephew was a toddler. He’s never understood why his dad isn’t interested in him. He’s in his 30s now and has never had a relationship with his father. 

Speaking of this, doesn’t Michael have grown children? What is the story? Where are they and does he see them? I don’t hear them talked about much. 

Robyn’s hair looked good at dinner, especially with the big earrings. Good look for her.

I agree with Karen. Giselle cannot dress herself! Such a beautiful woman but she needs a stylist or something! 

Wendy is not meshing with this group. 

 

[sATL]

10 hours ago, qtpye said:

I am so happy that Michael is an important business man who has no time to watch his son but plenty of time to hang out with strippers. His hours must be crazy!

I think Ashley is not only depressed with PPD. I think Ashley thought this would be her million dollar baby and ticket to security in her marriage. Newborns are tough on marriages and Michael has no interest in being a daddy at his age. Her marriage is probably as shaky as ever.

Not to mention she is still physically healing from the delivery.  Did anyone find the back story on the delivery? I mean she must had a long hard labor, severely over-due, or the baby was in a awkward position, or something, and the medical team (or her) didn't opt for an emerg c-secton

Baby Dean doesn't appear that big now (ie 10+ pound push-out), yet she tore from from a-z..

{now granted I watch alot of TLC shows where they show labor and delivery, quite often..mostly vaginal}

Speaking of which - I wonder what was her push-out gift ?

Edited September 1, 2020 by sATL

[Bronzedog]

Throughout previous seasons Michael made it pretty clear that he didn't want a baby.  My theory has always been that after one of his many scandals, I think last season, an agreement was brokered between Michael and Ashley in which he bought her silence and on air support in exchange for a baby.   She got the baby but it doesn't mean he ever changed his feelings about wanting one.

[Mr. Miner]

1 hour ago, sATL said:

Speaking of which - I wonder what was her push-out gift ?

A torn booty hole?

I guess Wendy watched this when it aired. She has come out on social media and said she should have apologized.

[Keywestclubkid]

5 hours ago, sATL said:

Speaking of which - I wonder what was her push-out gift ?

Push present lol omg yummy mummies 

[dosodog]

I'm old school. 

The push out gift is.  The baby!

[goofygirl]

I actually think Ashley may be more depressed because she's not able to give the lurve the way Michael wants it-the torn booty hole business.  Obviously, the guy has some proclivities towards that particular opening and until she had the baby; that was just FINE.  Now?? Not so much.

Ouch!

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Dear Wendy,

 

Karen doesn't like you,  accept it and move on.

Robyn looks great with the short cut.

She could do better than Juan. He wants to settle down now because 

nobody's checkin for a washed up former NBA player.

 

 

Candiece married down, does he even have a job?

Ashley needs to cut her losses and divorce Michael.

He barely engages her and DGAF about their baby.

 

 

[goofygirl]

Candiace married DOWN????  Chris HAS A JOB!  Does she??

[Marley]

Chris works in a restaurant I think but he’s a deadbeat dad with at least 2 baby mamas who has no problem living off his mother in law. He’s kind of a loser.

I think Ashley and Michael have an arrangement and like someone said he finally caved on the baby so she would stay silent and support him. She probably knows he’s gonna go out and fuck around when she’s gone but he’s probably supposed to keep it quiet. I think he is bi as well. There’s still lots of ignorant ppl out there so he keeps it quiet and Ashley keeps the story up. That’s just my opinion lol who really knows the real truth.

[NowVoyager]

On 8/31/2020 at 3:03 PM, Baltimore Betty said:

What about a baby being away from the father for 3 days, that is ok? Michael was tap dancing as fast as he could to convince Ashley to take the baby with her, she said yes right off the bat but he just kept telling her how she should take the baby.  I think Ashley knew he was going to go out and misbehave when she was away, maybe there is an understanding between them?

Michael to Ashley: "You are going to take the baby with you, right!? Because you know I plan to ho around the whole time you're gone & the baby would really cramp my style. Because a baby this young shouldn't be separated from his mom."

Edited September 2, 2020 by NowVoyager

[NowVoyager]

Nm.

Edited September 2, 2020 by NowVoyager

[TV Diva Queen]

I think the guest house is Monique and now we've seen 3 out of 4 of their homes.  I have friend's who have lake houses - One is a10,000 square foot log mansion and the other is a traditional lovely cabin, both are on lakes in rural Wisconsin (different lakes) and never, not once did we get dressed for dinner.  Its the one place I can go and use my weekender bag and still have room in it for more.  I realize I'm not on a reality show, but please.....sequins and earrings it not lake house attire

 

[TwopLurker]

I think the ladies tend to go easy on Ashley because let's face it, life came for Ashley before she could walk. She has a mother who chose to live in a tent over her children, a father who shut the door on her face, and a husband who clearly demands that she look and act a certain way in order to provide a certain lifestyle. Ashley's fortunate that she's beautiful and slim because otherwise life could have ended up even more difficult than it already is.  

Candiace's mom may be awful but at least Candy could have had med or law school paid for if she'd wanted it. 

Edited September 2, 2020 by TwopLurker
A word

[Neurochick]

50 minutes ago, TwopLurker said:

I think the ladies tend to go easy on Ashley because let's face it, life came for Ashley before she could walk. She has a mother who chose to live in a tent over her children, a father who shut the door on her face, and a husband who clearly demands that she look and act a certain way in order to provide a certain lifestyle. Ashley's fortunate that she's beautiful and slim because otherwise life could have ended up even more difficult than it already is.  

Candiace's mom may be awful but at least Candy could have had med or law school paid for if she'd wanted it. 

That's my problem with Candiace.  She doesn't understand how privileged she really is.  

[SailorGirl]

On 8/31/2020 at 4:39 PM, Rahul said:

I stand by my comment about Wendy's talking head featuring the bad 80s perm and off shoulder pink sequin being horrific.

A bad look is a bad look, no matter what someone's skin color is. And that? That was a BAD. LOOK.

I didn't see the episode when it aired and saw the picture here first -- and I didn't recognize who it was. I sure as hell didn't think it was Dr. Windy. No matter how much Karen and Gizelle change up their looks with different wigs, I always know who they are. 

Speaking of not watching the episode when it aired -- that's the second week in a row I completely forgot it was on -- not a good sign. 

And when I did watch it, I felt like I didn't miss anything, that it was super boring, and the last five minutes devolved into nothing but a screech-fest -- the reason I stopped watching ATL, NJ, and BH (screeching plus the evil that is Dorit). 

I really hope Potomac doesn't go down the same road, but its starting to look like they are.

I told ya', I was over the new one in her first appearance -- "LI-BARY"!  

Edited September 2, 2020 by SailorGirl

[dosodog]

1 hour ago, TwopLurker said:

I think the ladies tend to go easy on Ashley because let's face it, life came for Ashley before she could walk. She has a mother who chose to live in a tent over her children, a father who shut the door on her face, and a husband who clearly demands that she look and act a certain way in order to provide a certain lifestyle. Ashley's fortunate that she's beautiful and slim because otherwise life could have ended up even more difficult than it already is.  

Candiace's mom may be awful but at least Candy could have had med or law school paid for if she'd wanted it. 

You are way kinder than I am.

I think the ladies go easy on her to stay out of her crosshairs.   The whole "keep your enemies close" thing.

 

 

[qtpye]

6 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

I think the guest house is Monique and now we've seen 3 out of 4 of their homes.  I have friend's who have lake houses - One is a10,000 square foot log mansion and the other is a traditional lovely cabin, both are on lakes in rural Wisconsin (different lakes) and never, not once did we get dressed for dinner.  Its the one place I can go and use my weekender bag and still have room in it for more.  I realize I'm not on a reality show, but please.....sequins and earrings it not lake house attire

 

There was a great moment in the now defunct Real Ho's of Miami where the ladies got dressed up to go out to eat. I am talking about evening gown, high heels, and jewels. The looked like they were going to the Met Gala. When they got to their destination...they found out it was a seafood shack where everyone else was wearing shorts and flip flops. The NY ladies also really overdressed once to go to a rodeo.

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

That's my problem with Candiace.  She doesn't understand how privileged she really is.  

If you take Candiass's mother out of the equation....she has literally nothing, yet there is a constant need to show off. They could have put forth a down payment for a house with the insane amount that she spent on her wedding.

1 hour ago, SailorGirl said:

A bad look is a bad look, no matter what someone's skin color is. And that? That was a BAD. LOOK.

I didn't see the episode when it aired and saw the picture here first -- and I didn't recognize who it was. I sure as hell didn't think it was Dr. Windy. No matter how much Karen and Gizelle change up their looks with different wigs, I always know who they are. 

Speaking of not watching the episode when it aired -- that's the second week in a row I completely forgot it was on -- not a good sign. 

And when I did watch it, I felt like I didn't miss anything, that it was super boring, and the last five minutes devolved into nothing but a screech-fest -- the reason I stopped watching ATL, NJ, and BH (screeching plus the evil that is Dorit). 

I really hope Potomac doesn't go down the same road, but its starting to look like they are.

I told ya', I was over the new one in her first appearance -- "LI-BARY"!  

It reminded me of the horrible wig Ashley wore on her talking heads when she was pregnant and a bad look is a bad look, period. I like how you called her Dr. Windy.

43 minutes ago, dosodog said:

You are way kinder than I am.

I think the ladies go easy on her to stay out of her crosshairs.   The whole "keep your enemies close" thing.

 

 

Ashley is a perfect howife character. She is beautiful, clever, sharp tongued, and more importantly, has a walking disaster of a life. Her mama only wants her to pay the bills, husband is itching to be with other men and/or women, and daddy does not even know who the hell she is. She is also the type of lady who signed up to be a trophy wife, complete with her own vanity business project (the closed Oz) and only later realized that she has to deal with a lot more then she bargained for.

Compare this to doddering Robyn who has had five seasons of "will they won't they" with a dusty ex husband who threw her to the curb years ago.

[Neurochick]

27 minutes ago, qtpye said:

If you take Candiass's mother out of the equation....she has literally nothing, yet there is a constant need to show off. They could have put forth a down payment for a house with the insane amount that she spent on her wedding.

That can be said about most people.  Most people aren't really "self made."

[qtpye]

18 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

That can be said about most people.  Most people aren't really "self made."

Yes, but most upper middle class African American children have made something of themselves, in their own right. Yes, they had the privilege that comes with having professional parents, very comfortable finances, and access to excellent education. This gives them a great head start in life, but it is up to them what they do with it. Their parents know that life will be twice as hard for them so they expect them to work twice as hard to succeed.

Candiass feels like everything should just be given to her because she exists.

[Stats Queen]

I don’t think Candy Ass married down, as another poster said, at least he has a job.

we actually don’t know for sure whether Chris is a deadbeat dad or not, no evidence either way. He hasn’t been in touch with some of his kids but that doesn’t necessarily mean he isn’t helping them financially. That being said, it wouldn’t surprise me that he has been an inadequate provider.

I do like how he counsels CandyAss and tells her she needs to apologize. He actually has a lot of sense.

My new name for him is The Candiace Whisper.

For that is give him tons of kudos.

(I really, really, don’t like Candy Ass, but Chris makes her seem somewhat human).

[drivethroo]

5 hours ago, qtpye said:

Yes, but most upper middle class African American children have made something of themselves, in their own right. Yes, they had the privilege that comes with having professional parents, very comfortable finances, and access to excellent education. This gives them a great head start in life, but it is up to them what they do with it. Their parents know that life will be twice as hard for them so they expect them to work twice as hard to succeed.

Candiass feels like everything should just be given to her because she exists.

 

Everything is given to Candiace because she exists.  She's a Candiace Doll (tm) that her mother plays with and dresses up.   Her mother has the Candiace Townhouse and the Candiace Dream Wedding.  The Candiace Doll went to the right schools and met the right people that her mother can then brag about to her friends.

Quote

Their parents know that life will be twice as hard for them so they expect them to work twice as hard to succeed.

This is why Wendy's "4 degrees" doesn't bother me.  I don't see Wendy talking about her 4 degrees as a way to feel superior to Black Americans, I see it as a way to say "I've succeeded, I've excelled."  The only person I've seen Wendy use her degrees as a weapon against is Ashley and IMO most of that is because of biases Wendy has had against Ashley when joining the cast. (and we know Wendy watched the show & studied all the characters because one of the insults she threw out against Ashley was Michael shutting down international on Ashley's cell phone).

 

57 minutes ago, Stats Queen said:

I don’t think Candy Ass married down, as another poster said, at least he has a job.

There's no consequence to marrying down if your mother is propping you up.  Candiace definitely married down.  If her mom sold the townhouse today and they had to go live in a basic condo in Alexandria that he could afford on his salary minus all the child support payments, I wonder how long Candiace would stay with him?

He seems like a very nice guy but she was probably expected to marry some college educated Buppie or at least someone of a higher station than a BBQ restaurant manager.

 

6 hours ago, qtpye said:

Ashley is a perfect howife character. She is beautiful, clever, sharp tongued, and more importantly, has a walking disaster of a life...She is also the type of lady who signed up to be a trophy wife, complete with her own vanity business project (the closed Oz) and only later realized that she has to deal with a lot more then she bargained for.

I'm actually re-watching Season 1.  When we are introduced to Ashley, she had just married Michael. She was 26.  I believe they were together for 4 years before that (22 years old) and there is a 29 year age difference.  Michael saw a young girl from a distressed background and found an easy target he could mold.  He let Ashley think she was dazzling him with her magical WAP by putting her mother up in a house, giving Ashley a car and paying her brother's education expenses.  But once Ashley decided to act like she was an equal partner to him, he let her know real quick what the deal was by putting her mother out of the house, firing Ashley from the restaurant, controlling her cell phone and putting Ashley out on the street with just the clothes on her back and keys to her car.  Ever since then, Ashley's been toeing the line.

I think this is why Robyn and Gizelle have a softer spot for Ashley, because they can see through Michael, the games he's playing and what he's doing to Ashley. Karen & Gizelle have no problem calling him out, which is why he does not like them.

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by drivethroo

[qtpye]

 

This is the look I was referring to that reminded me a little of Dr. Windy’s look.

Edited September 3, 2020 by qtpye

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

Oh Dr. Wendy. Your wigs are BAD and your hair trigger is worse. You deserved the blows T'Challa reigned down on you, Calm down. 

I gave credit to Karen for one second for honoring Ashley for being honest about her childbirth injury, but then Karen had to turn it into truth or dare w/the bootyhole in service stuff. You were there for one crowning moment Karen, then bam. 

Also, I love Robyn she tried really hard at dinner to smooth things her over. Her boys are also the cutest, I enjoy the scenes w/her family and they seem real. I am rooting for her.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Alonzo Mosely FBI

[lasu]

OK, I went back and watched this more than once (I do NOT like what the pandemic is doing to me, lol), and my ruling is that  Wendy definitely started it and there would have been no argument if she hadn't started with Ashley.  As Monique is describing the bedroom situation, you can see Wendy's face betraying some feeling as soon as Monique says Ashley's baby would be there.  Yet, she says nothing to the host, who clearly would have been the person to decide who was and was not allowed regardless of the size of the guest.  The the bird attack happens as Ashley comes is, which while neither here nor there, was some of the funniest shit I've ever seen on TV.  I'm also not a huge fan of birds, but holy fuck, THAT was a reaction!

So Ashley with Dean, and it's actually Robyn who kicks things off, asking why Michael didn't watch Dean (though she uses a very purposeful inflection [IMO) to soften something that could sound very judgmental).  Ashley responds, "No, I couldn't be away from him that long," in a kind of "I know I'm absurd" voice.  And this is where Wendy was wrong - as Ashley is saying this, Wendy's entire posture chances and she literally side eyes Ashley, and say, "Ashley, c'mon."  There's no question (to me) that she is pissed, and it's coming of as judgmental and it doesn't go unnoticed by anyone in the room.  Gizelle and Robyn immediately start saying things like "she's a new mom!  Don't judge!"  I think both Gizelle and Robyn know that a three-month old baby can be cared for by his father for three days, but they are also being sympathetic to a new mom.  Wendy starts saying she is a new mom too!  Her baby is even younger!  But Gizelle, Robyn, and Ashley start pointing out it's her third!  Not the same!  

This is actually a weird situation where for once I think Ashley should have let other fight her battle for her, at least on this particular point.  I'm not a mom and I actually pretty strongly dislike baby babies.  I love baby other animals, just not baby babies.  I *really* don't want to hold your baby.  I *will* hold your baby if you need to go to the bathroom, and I'll chip in a do a feeding or a diaper changing.  I don't mind helping.  But I still don't like your baby (it's nothing personal against your baby!!) and I don't want to hold it just for the sake of holding it.  All that said, even I have enough experiences with first time moms versus moms of more than one, and the difference is clear.  To me, there is no question that the trio was right, Ashley was a new mom, while Wendy has a new baby and they aren't really the same.  But if I had been there, as a mother of none, I'd have kept out of it, and as a mother of one, Ashley should have let the mother of more than one in the room make the argument that it's different.  It just wasn't the best look for her.

Then we cut to Wendy's TH where she says her daughter was premature and in the NICU.  Considering that was three months ago, I'm sure that is still very painful and raw, but she only enters it as exculpatory evidence after the fact, and to be honest, as a non-parent, I don't know how to factor that in, so I'm going to dismiss it.  Not fair of me, but it wasn't introduced into the actual argument and I don't know how to weigh it, so I'm just going to throw it out.  Not as an awful and scary experience that we should be sympathetic to, but as evidence in the argument between Wendy and Ashley.

After the talking head, we come back and Karen is apparently trying to diffuse the situation.  She says something to Ashley about the nursery (and Wendy is staring DAGGERS at Ashley), and then politely says to Wendy, does seeing Dean make you miss your baby?  Obviously, Karen is actually trying to smooth things over and acknowledge Wendy's feelings.  Wendy basically starts going on again about it being a Girls' Weekend, with the clear implication Ashley shouldn't have brought her baby.  Ashley looks over at Robyn (holding Dean, and keep in mind Robyn was the first person to ask why Michael didn't keep Dean), and says, "My husband has to work!"

Now, here is where we have to stop and acknowledge we, the viewers, have extra information Wendy does not.  We have seen Michael's INSANE pressure on Ashley to feel like a bad mother if she abandons her child (for three days - which I'm betting is Day One getting there in the late afternoon [it was about 430 when this argument happened and Ashley had just arrived], all day Day Two, and leave Day Three morning.  So i bet three days worked out to less than 48 hours).  Keep in mind, Ashley's own mother abandoned her, so Michael is playing on some real fear Ashley would obviously have.  Ashley knows she can't come out and say what she has been taught, that only a bad mother would leave a baby alone that long.  But her response still alludes to the SOURCE of where those fears are being stoked: Michael.  So she says the only part of his argument she can that doesn't put down Wendy as a mother - my husband has to work.  Which, by proxy, is an "attack" on Wendy's husband.  So off they go again about whose husband is busier/more important.

And here I'm going to digress even further and ding Wendy again.  She keeps saying her husband is an attorney.  I think that's considered the "fancier" term, but I have no problem with at all.  However!  Try saying out loud MY HUS-BAND IS AN AT-TOURNEY!  Now try saying out loud MY HUS-BAND IS A LAW-YER.  The second comes with way better verbal slaps.  They are both being idiots, this has nothing to do with husband (except Wendy's is likely supportive of her and does watch his kids, while Michael is a fucked up gas lighter who just wants them out of his path).  But LAW-YER just sounds better in this context.  I'm deducting points for style.

Then, Wendy starts talking about how much effort she put into being able to come without her baby, and says because she put so much effort in, she knows it can be done, and she has no sympathy for Ashley saying she's a new mom.  Ashley very correctly points out she didn't ask for Wendy's sympathy, and tells Wendy to mind her business, Wendy says it IS her business, and I'm going to deduct more points here.  Ashley and Ashley's baby are the literal definition of not her business.  She is completely acting like Ashley has done something wrong by bringing her baby, and that's NOT HER BUSINESS.

Wendy is also saying she did all of this so she could be present with the other ladies.  She seems to be thinking that she and Ashley are coming into this as employees of equal value and they simply aren't.  Ashley is gold plated cast member.  If she needs extra accommodations with filming, she is likely going to get it.  She's been with the "company" longer, she's paid more dues, she's brought the drama.  If Ashley told production, "Dean comes or I don't" they are more like to work with her because she is an employee who gets her job done.  If Wendy said the same thing to production, they might shrug and be like, "OK, enjoy your weekend at home", or "Lady, you need to look at your contract."  But the truth is long time employees sometimes get accommodations new hires don't.  I don't know that any of this happened, it just wouldn't surprise or bother me.  

In addition to that aspect, Wendy also seems to forget Ashley has real friendships with some of these women.  Wendy just met them about 10 minutes ago.  Ashley has been to Monique's lake house before, right?  So, of course Ashley is going to feel more comfortable asking Monique if she could bring Dean.  They are friends, even if it's just co-worker friends.  Wendy and Monique at this point are ONLY co-workers, and naturally she is going to be less likely to ask her co-worker if she can bring her baby on a work retreat where her literal job is to get to know her co-workers.  Ashley has already put in her time doing that, so it's not as big of a deal if Ashley ducks out some.  While none of this, either with production or friends, is surprising to me, I think it was VERY surprising to Wendy.  I think she's been at the head of the line for a very long time, and having to get in line behind someone like Ashley (in her eyes, not mine) is upsetting her world view.  She somehow doesn't understand that Ashley has way more to bring to a reality show and has already proven it, and four degrees means absolutely nothing in this setting.  In the bizarro Ho'wives world, having a messy life is worth more than having your shit together.

And regardless of which combination of the above scenarios led to this, Wendy was wrong as soon as she said, "Ashley, c'mon."  Ashley literally had done nothing wrong.  She didn't just show up with a surprise baby!  Wendy should have been upset with herself, Monique, and/or production.  But instead, she tried to make Ashley feel WRONG for bringing her baby, that she was WRONG for not doing things exactly as Wendy did.  Wendy's argument is with the wrong person, and that's why she looks so bad.  Yes, Ashley absolutely lobbed her own barbs back, but this is a definite case of don't start none, won't be none.

So, my thoughts are Wendy started it without provocation, Ashley continued it and escalated it with provocation, and ultimately Michael is  at fault for the whole damn thing. 

Final ruling: Michael, guilty.

[Neurochick]

3 hours ago, lasu said:

Wendy is also saying she did all of this so she could be present with the other ladies.  She seems to be thinking that she and Ashley are coming into this as employees of equal value and they simply aren't.  Ashley is gold plated cast member.  If she needs extra accommodations with filming, she is likely going to get it.  She's been with the "company" longer, she's paid more dues, she's brought the drama.  If Ashley told production, "Dean comes or I don't" they are more like to work with her because she is an employee who gets her job done.  If Wendy said the same thing to production, they might shrug and be like, "OK, enjoy your weekend at home", or "Lady, you need to look at your contract."  But the truth is long time employees sometimes get accommodations new hires don't.  I don't know that any of this happened, it just wouldn't surprise or bother me.  

That is a very good point.  Ashley has been in the cast much longer than Wendy.  Ashley's probably getting paid more than Wendy.  

 

16 hours ago, drivethroo said:

This is why Wendy's "4 degrees" doesn't bother me.  I don't see Wendy talking about her 4 degrees as a way to feel superior to Black Americans, I see it as a way to say "I've succeeded, I've excelled." 

You don't need to tell people how many degrees you have to convey that you've excelled.  And why do you need to tell others that you've excelled.  My response would be, "that's very nice, would you like a cookie?"

I still believe Wendy wants to show just how superior she is.  Sorry, seen too many West Africans think they're head and shoulders better than Black Americans.  

[biakbiak]

5 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I still believe Wendy wants to show just how superior she is

Which came through loud and clear when she told Ashley that “people like you usually call me doctor,” nonsense.

[Sheenieb]

Quote

I love how she thinks she’s above ashly with her people like you call me Dr bullshit. Last time I checked Wendy you both are on the same freaking “reality” tv show you ain’t above no one booboo

The pretentiousness is too fucking much. I'm all about being proud of your accomplishments, but "people like you call me DOCTOR Wendy," was off-putting. She's trying way too hard.

Michael ain't shit. But I wouldn't be surprised if he's that type of dad who thinks that caring for his own child is babysitting. I doubt he watched his older children when they were growing up. He laid that guilt trip though, didn't he? "You're taking the baby, right? You don't sound convinced." I also took it to mean that he was reminding Ashley that having a child was her idea, so don't think she can skate by getting free time.

Karen was the MVP this episode. I dieeed when she said that it was a good thing that Gizelle is attractive because "goddamn, she can't dress." What was that getup she wore to dinner? Were the shorts leather? It looked like if a mullet were an outfit. Business on the top, party on the bottom.

Karen talking about her booty hole being retired because she doesn't have to work that hard anymore. I see you, Karen. OK, girl.

I couldn't tell if Candiace really got a nose job in the side-by-side picture. If she did, the surgeon did good work, I think, because it doesn't look pinched. Her nose could also be contoured. I'd have to see her without makeup to tell.

Newburg looks like Camp Crystal Lake, but I liked Mo's house. You can tell it's lived in and homey. I've been watching Million Dollar Listing: LA and I'm tired of seeing cold, glass boxes. I like homes with personality.

[drivethroo]

11 hours ago, Neurochick said:

You don't need to tell people how many degrees you have to convey that you've excelled.  And why do you need to tell others that you've excelled.  My response would be, "that's very nice, would you like a cookie?"

I still believe Wendy wants to show just how superior she is.  Sorry, seen too many West Africans think they're head and shoulders better than Black Americans.  

I've seen those type of West Africans too, and they usually don't associate with Black Americans to begin with. 

I've also seen Black Americans looking down on African immigrants.  Calling them bootyscratchers, imitating their accents and asking them why aren't they starving and what about their huts etc.  Wendy has probably seen that too which is why she feels she has to "prove" she belongs.  Her mother didn't look like an upscale African and in her childhood photos she looked kind of rough so I'm assuming Wendy wasn't an upscale immigrant either.  Also production is telling her to remind everyone about her degrees.

Wendy also has information about Ashley as a viewer that she shouldn't have on the show (Michael controlling Ashley's cell phone).  This is likely coloring her attitude against Ashley in particular (along with the fact she is Candiace's friend and Candiace has/had a problem with Ashley).

Somebody bragging about their degrees, homes, husbands etc never bothers me unless they weaponize it against me.  And then they'll be shut down.  If Wendy feels superior to Black Americans (I don't have any evidence or feeling to believe she does), that's on her because if she was all of that in her home country she would not have to come over here to make something of herself (shrug).

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Whether or not Wendy's feelings towards Ashley stem from her West African heritage, I do think she refused to apologize to Ashley - for behavior that she admitted came from her own frustration - because she feels that Ashley in particular is beneath her.  I suspect that is why she's so frustrated with Karen's attitude towards her - because she doesn't like the fact that Karen is making her feel less-than, which is exactly how she's treating Ashley.

[qtpye]

3 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Whether or not Wendy's feelings towards Ashley stem from her West African heritage, I do think she refused to apologize to Ashley - for behavior that she admitted came from her own frustration - because she feels that Ashley in particular is beneath her.  I suspect that is why she's so frustrated with Karen's attitude towards her - because she doesn't like the fact that Karen is making her feel less-than, which is exactly how she's treating Ashley.

Not a good look.

I also think Dr. Windy was feeling mommy shamed and judged (by no one but herself) because she did leave her baby. This helped in her going a little crazy.