S10.E09: Andi Then There Were Three

[chocolatine]

I forgot to comment on the most ridiculous moment of this episode - Chris Harrison walking both Josh and Nick to the rose ceremony spot, leaving, only to come right back to dramatically announce that Chris was no longer there. It's like he left to make it seem like he was going to get Chris to dramatically walk back in alone. I actually laughed at loud when that happened, because it was just so stupid and these are the moments where despite all his millions that I am jealous of, I also feel so embarrassed for Chris Harrison.

 

 

That was probably to compensate for the fact that wasn't able to announce the last remaining rose.

[truthaboutluv]

That was probably to compensate for the fact that wasn't able to announce the last remaining rose.

 

lol...probably. The highlight of any episode for CH. 

 

So there is a deleted scene on abc.com of Andi viewing video messages from Nick and Josh. I actually didn't even realize that was missing from the episode even though it is a tradition when it gets down to the F3. A couple of things - yeah I'm further leaning to Andi sleeping with both Nick and Josh which, hey more power to her. Just hope whoever she picks isn't too upset about that little fact, if they even know. But both Josh and Nick make comments about their night with her in the FS that in my opinion make it clear there was way more than talking that happened there. Nick talks about how it had all parts of the couple they've been from day one, that it had the intensity, passion, subtle moments. Yeah I don't think he was just talking about conversation. And Josh talked about how amazing it was and felt, being with her, waking up next to her, etc. So yeah, all I'm saying is stuff went down in those fantasy suites. 

 

Two, Andi may have the best poker face of any Bachelorette I've ever seen which maybe that has to do with her being a lawyer because while my gut still says she picks Josh, watching her reactions to those video messages, I kind of cannot tell for sure. She really did look like she was just glowing and had this ear splitting smile on her face throughout Nick's entire message and just looked so happy. With Josh she wasn't smiling the entire time but there was just this genuine fondness and warmth, looking at him on the screen. Honestly she looked like a woman in love with both while watching their videos. This may be the first season where right up until the end the lead may have truly been torn or like I said, her poker face was just that damn good.

 

I am also really interested in seeing how Andi lets Nick go if she does indeed pick Josh and what reason she gives for her decision on the show and during the AFTR because re-watching their fantasy dates, while Josh was saying all the right things about family, children and she definitely seemed happy with what he was saying and there was a lot of heat going on between them in the fantasy suite, Andi looked truly blown away when Nick told her he loved her. And then in her talking head she talked again about never meeting someone who she felt such a mental and physical connection with. And this is the line she's been using about Nick from their first interactions - that she feels comfortable, that he sees her, sees who she is, that she can be herself with him and later she started with the talk about their intense passion and physical chemistry. So I would be really interested in hearing how and why, if she picks Josh, she made that choice. I have an idea but it'll be really interesting to see it play out. 

[Gregg247]

So, Chris got the heave-ho about 9:00 or later the night of his date.  He packed his bags and headed for the car to take him to the airport.  Are there a lot of flights from the Dominican Republic to Iowa at that time of night?  How long did he have to wait at the airport to catch a plane?  And how many layovers did he have in order to get home?

 

Maybe they should have let him leave the next morning instead of that night!  I guess once you've been kicked to the curb, the producers are DONE with you, too!

[FamilyVan]

I think they leave and go to another, separate, hotel.

Edited July 16, 2014 by FamilyVan

[kira28]

Something strange that stood out to me was on Nick's one on one on the romantic island  they were all over eachother making out constantly so much chemistry. But the next day (after the fantasy suite) Nick seemed stiff and awkward with her. She wasn't as affectionate with him but with Josh she was all over him.

[Lone Wolf]

Given that the contestant who gets shat on the hardest seems to be the one who comes the next Bachelor(ette), I just want to go on record as saying that I'm looking forward to hearing the audience screaming like banshees when Chris is introduced on The Men Tell All, to be followed by the announcement that he will be starring in next season's The Bachelor: Farmer Takes A Wife.

 

Thank you.

[Bugs Meany]

Given that the contestant who gets shat on the hardest seems to be the one who comes the next Bachelor(ette)

 

When has that happened?

[Kbilly]

There is a deleted scene on abc.com of Andi viewing video messages from Nick and Josh. I actually didn't even realize that was missing from the episode even though it is a tradition when it gets down to the F3.

 

This episode was so boring I'm wondering how it's possible they couldn't have fit those in? I could've done without the first 15 minutes of the show recapping what we already know like we're dolts.

 

Lone Wolf Farmer Takes a Wife is an excellent title. The theme song could be Kenny Chesney's "She Thinks My Tractor's Sexy". 

Edited July 16, 2014 by Kbilly

[pitchy]

I finally realized who Nick reminds me of:
   http://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/john-jeansonne/the-appeal-of-john-mcenroe-then-and-now-1.2979757

[leighdear]

Interesting to me how since last week with Chris's HTD, and now his island ouster, that so many of the militant, overly-vocal "Marquel for Bachelor" supporters seem to have disappeared, or forgotten that he even existed....*LOL*

[dannipintauro]

 

The day part of Nick and Andi's date actually reminded me of a lot of her previous interactions with Josh. That's how their dates/conversations had gone in the past - she would go into interrogator mode and get pissy for no reason and I felt like that was what was going on with her and Nick which had never been the case before between them. Not to mention that the scene felt sliced and diced like I often thought her scenes with Josh were. Honestly, I think last night's show was the editing finally showing viewers who Andi's pick was - Josh.

I agree that it's pretty clear that Andi is going to choose Josh in the end.  I also agree with your comments about her going into "interrogator mode" during previous interactions. Did anyone notice how, after Josh told her he loved her, he made a comment about how it's the first time he's said it and really meant it?  The fact that she didn't pounce on that pretty much says it all.

 

Also, Josh reminds me of that thing where you use a magnet and metal shavings to put eyebrows/hair on a cartoon face.  He looks like he's wearing a disguise with fake eyebrows. 

[truthaboutluv]

Did anyone notice how, after Josh told her he loved her, he made a comment about how it's the first time he's said it and really meant it?  The fact that she didn't pounce on that pretty much says it all.

 

 

This. Stuff like that always makes me suspect and if a guy ever said that to me, I'd see that as a red flag because my immediate thought would be, "so how am I supposed to be sure you really mean it this time or do you mean it until we break up and the next woman you'll tell her the same thing." Many people do this and think like this and I'm not sure why - that they have to downplay past relationships, past love to prove how committed they are to this new person. 

 

It's like people come in your life at different times for different reasons and just because they don't turn out to be your forever doesn't automatically mean that it wasn't real and no longer important. Honestly, more than his baseball obsession and other stuff, these are the things that raises red flags for me about Josh. The "I haven't had a relationship in 5 years but suddenly in the space of this short span of time, all while you were dating a bunch of other guys I know you are the person I want to marry and spend the rest of my life with" and now there's that "yeah when I said those words in the past it wasn't true."

 

Like I appreciated Nick's approach with his past relationships where rather than dismissing his feelings for them or acting like it wasn't real or wasn't true, it was more, "well here's what went wrong..." But yeah Nick is who she was interrogating simply because he downplayed his heartbreak when talking about the past relationships and his family talked about how heartbroken he was. And Josh gets a pass for basically saying he told women he loved them without meaning it. That makes sense.

Edited July 16, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Lone Wolf]

LONE WOLF, ON 16 JUL 2014 - 08:16 AM, SAID:

Given that the contestant who gets shat on the hardest seems to be the one who comes the next Bachelor(ette)

 

When has that happened?

 

 

Well, there may have been some hyperbole and generalization there (I really just wanted to make my Farmer Takes A Wife joke, "y'all"), but I have no doubt that Chris is on deck for the next Bachelor.  That said, off the top of my head:

 

• After a “nightmare disaster” fantasy suite, Juan Pablo told Andi that she barely made it to the Final Three, which turned into an epic fight. Andi became The B-ette.
• Brad rejected Emily and DeAnna, both Final Two.  Both became B-ettes.
• Desiree got rejected by Sean and became B-ette.

 

The details are fuzzy, but I remember a lot of "most dramatic season ever"ing and resultant outrage and sympathy from "Bachelor Nation".  In addition:

 

• Bob Guiney was the Schlub With A Good Heart who Trista rejected and came back as a suave, trimmed down Bachelor
• Jake Pavelka was on Jillian’s season and came back as The Bachelor

 

Associated drama/outrage/sympathy with those guys varied, and I may have missed a few others, but that would be the basis for my perception.

 

 

[leighdear]

I took Josh's statement about "really meaning it" to include the entire engagement, marriage and babies deal.  Where before, saying "I love you" didn't mean the "Til death do us part" kind of love.  They were talking about their future, so I just assumed (I know, that's dangerous! *LOL*) that was what he was explaining to Andi. 

 

I also really liked how casual and matter-of-fact Josh was, when they were talking on the bench and he said it.  No vague descriptive, no fumbling, no word salad he was trying to assemble into a coherent statement.  Just a right out and unambiguous, "I love you" as part of the conversation.   As in "Of course I love you, that's a given...Now, what were we talking about....."   To me, their conversation sounded mature and as if they were absolutely on the same page emotionally.  I don't think she needed him to list all of her good points, to "prove" he loves her.  I think she believes it regardless.   

Edited July 16, 2014 by leighdear

[Bugs Meany]

Lone Wolf, for some reason I thought you meant that the people who get shat on (as in, verbally trashed) by the other contestants and/or Men/Women Tell Audience go on to become the next Bachelor(ette).  Who knows where I came up with that.  Never mind!

[truthaboutluv]

Brad rejected Emily and DeAnna, both Final Two. Both became B-ettes.

Brad didn't reject Emily. He actually picked her and proposed to her the second time he did the show. She became the Bachelorette after they broke up.

[violetr]

 I also really liked how casual and matter-of-fact Josh was, when they were talking on the bench and he said it.  No vague descriptive, no fumbling, no word salad he was trying to assemble into a coherent statement.  Just a right out and unambiguous, "I love you" as part of the conversation.

 

Again this falls under the "different strokes" rubric, because Josh just sounded slick and shallow to me, whereas Nick's fumbling sounded sincere. Truthfully, though, I think it just comes down to two different guys with two different approaches. I prefer Nick, but I'm not the Bachelorette. I'm pretty convinced at this point that she'll choose Josh and then they'll break up after a few months.

[MsPH]

I also really liked how casual and matter-of-fact Josh was, when they were talking on the bench and he said it.  No vague descriptive, no fumbling, no word salad he was trying to assemble into a coherent statement.  Just a right out and unambiguous, "I love you" as part of the conversation.   As in "Of course I love you, that's a given...Now, what were we talking about....."   To me, their conversation sounded mature and as if they were absolutely on the same page emotionally.  I don't think she needed him to list all of her good points, to "prove" he loves her.  I think she believes it regardless.   

 

Or he's just so used to saying those words without meaning them that it doesn't phase him at all. But who knows, maybe they're just "meant to be". (I love how Nick dislikes that phrase BTW). I'm also a bit suspicious of someone who hasn't been dating for 5 years, and according to himself has never truly loved someone, suddenly knowing he's found The One on a TV dating show. I mean, if you haven't been in any sort of relationship for years then it might be easier to get swept up by the smallest of emotions.

[leighdear]

The whole "Josh hasn't dated" thing has been rehashed over & over & over on these boards since the beginning.  He specifically said himself, on camera, that he hasn't been in a SERIOUS dating relationship, the kind where you take that person home to meet the parents.  That's why his mom said THEY hadn't met any in a few years. 

 

He never said he didn't go out. He never said he didn't see any girls.  He never said he didn't sleep with anybody.  He SAID he hadn't dated anybody he wanted to be in a serious relationship with. 

 

He lives in Atlanta.  His parents live in Tampa.  Why would they meet anybody but a serious girlfriend?

 

I live in the SAME town as my parents and I'm not going to introduce them to some guy I went out with twice & decided not to see again.  

 

And definitely Nick's "fumbling" as endearing is a YMMV thing.  A 30-something guys who's been in several SERIOUS relationships, engaged even, and he can't get a coherent thought to come out of his mouth?  He's a Salesperson for cripes sake.....*LOL*

Edited July 16, 2014 by leighdear

[Padma]

He specifically said himself, on camera, that he hasn't been in a SERIOUS dating relationship, the kind where you take that person home to meet the parents.

 

You could be right, and it certainly makes more sense than what I remember. But I could have sworn it was much vaguer than that, more like, "I haven't been in a relationship for five years".  I don't remember the "serious" part at all or anything at all about taking someone to meet the family. Are you sure he said that? (As I say, if my memory's failing it won't be the first time. I'll just be glad it's over this instead of something like the groceries or bills. :) ).

 

I think there's something about Josh's dating life that he's holding back from her. That whole lie detector thing was weird to me, and so is the "five years" (as I remember it) and the thing about saying "I love you" before but not meaning it.  I'm not saying he's lying, or is a player (although he could be both), but I do think there's something (won't speculate) that he's afraid she'll find out about.

[MsPH]

You could be right, and it certainly makes more sense than what I remember. But I could have sworn it was much vaguer than that, more like, "I haven't been in a relationship for five years".  I don't remember the "serious" part at all or anything at all about taking someone to meet the family. Are you sure he said that? (As I say, if my memory's failing it won't be the first time. I'll just be glad it's over this instead of something like the groceries or bills. :) ).

 

That was my impression as well. And I could almost swear that at some point Andi asked him "so you haven't been on a date for 5 years?". Now obviously I might've misheard, but I remember being like "wait... whaaat?" and expecting him to correct her, but he didn't, so that left me a bit confused. I would think the truth lies somewhere in the middle, as in he's been on some dates with various girls and had a bit of fun, but never really progressed beyond that and been exclusive. However, I don't think meeting the parents is the next step after some casual dates, so it's still quite far from a serious relationship.

[sistersledge]

You may be right but I don't take anything anyone "says" on this show as gold, mainly bc it's a TV show and also editing. (It's like how most of the HGTV shows are staged.) Producers insert and take out at will, to make a dramatic show.

In addition, I don't think it's that unusual to not have a relationship for 5 years. There was a four year gap between my last serious relationship and when I started dating my husband. Oh sure there were dates here and there, but nothing to write home about and I lived/worked in NYC.

[truthaboutluv]

And definitely Nick's "fumbling" as endearing is a YMMV thing.  A 30-something guys who's been in several SERIOUS relationships, engaged even, and he can't get a coherent thought to come out of his mouth?

 

 

I think there are key factors that should be considered here - one, I sincerely doubt Nick had a gaggle of cameras in his face when he told any of these women in his past, that he loved them. Two, I sincerely doubt they were dating a bunch of other guys at the same time. I think the situation with Andi and why Nick was so bumbling with the "I love you" is because he knows it puts him at an extremely vulnerable place with the risk of heartbreak even higher, now that he's all in. I mean this whole situation lends itself to the very real possibility of one giant fail - he's competing against others, because it's a competition she can't truly tell him how she feels because there's a show to film, he really hasn't known her that long and during that short space of time he's known her, they've only really spent a handful of hours together. It's a risky, risky situation and that's why I think his feelings were as genuine as could be with this show and genuine at that time. Because he wasn't spitting the words out like he was so certain of himself and them, because he was nervous, he was wary, etc. That rings honest and real to me. 

Edited July 16, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[JenE4]

Interesting to me how since last week with Chris's HTD, and now his island ouster, that so many of the militant, overly-vocal "Marquel for Bachelor" supporters seem to have disappeared, or forgotten that he even existed....*LOL*

Oh, hell, no! Still all about Marquel over here! However, we know his next Bachelor Family step is Bachelor in Paradise, so they really squandered that opportunity! However, I'll take what I can get! I suppose there's a very small chance he could come out of BiP while maintaining his dignity and high regard amongst Bachelor Nation. I consider Ames a good example of that: Lying low on Bachelor Pad while building up his love story with Jackie, and pulling that super romantic move of running after the limo when she was eliminated and leaving with her. I still think Ames would have made an interesting Bachelor and he could reasonably have been recycled after BP, and I still hold some hope of the same for Marquel, but it seems much more likely that it will be Chris, despite my preference for Marquel.

[leighdear]

I sincerely doubt Nick had a gaggle of cameras in his face when he told any of these women in his past, that he loved them. Two, I sincerely doubt they were dating a bunch of other guys at the same time.

Those are both really good points.  But when he does his ITM's, he never seems to grasp for the words or concepts.  I know he's a smart guy, I just don't get why talking to her just comes off as being so intimidating to him. 

[truthaboutluv]

I guess for me the difference is kind of simple. In the ITM he's basically just stating his thoughts and feelings to a camera and camera guy. That's a little different than having Andi right in front of him, staring directly at him waiting for him to tell he loves her. 

Edited July 16, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[fib]

My favorite aspect off Chris's dismissal? This guy clearly knows how to play the game, especially compared to Nick, who took all the heat for it!  Chris was always polite and Charming around Andi, while Nick found himself sullen and salty.  Chris understood the power of the pack, and seemed to have bros in the house to bolster his goodwill, while Nick was a lonewolf licking his sad 'I didn't get a one-on-one' wounds.  Chris played to the producers when appropriate, staging the lovely secret admirer letters and getting in on the Nick bashing when necessary. Nick was pretty good at this too, (with the flower delivery and the sneak away with Andi after Marcus' date), but his optics of his producer shenanigans were less good: the flowers appeared to come at Eric's expense, stealing away from his time, and the sneak away looked like he was stealing the romance of Marcus's night for his own advantage. 

This is why, IMHO, Chris will be the next Bachelor even though no one realized he was playing the game so masterfully!

[ribboninthesky1]

I also really liked how casual and matter-of-fact Josh was, when they were talking on the bench and he said it.  No vague descriptive, no fumbling, no word salad he was trying to assemble into a coherent statement.  Just a right out and unambiguous, "I love you" as part of the conversation.   As in "Of course I love you, that's a given...Now, what were we talking about....."   To me, their conversation sounded mature and as if they were absolutely on the same page emotionally.  I don't think she needed him to list all of her good points, to "prove" he loves her.  I think she believes it regardless.   

 

I'm totally stealing "word salad" and will use it whenever and wherever I can! And it may not be in the appropriate context.  Perhaps I'll just blurt out, "Word salad!" at random moments because I can and I like the way it sounds.  

 

I'm no champion of Nick or Josh, so I'm not invested in who she picks or why.  I've always been skeptical of how genuine anyone can be while filming, so in that regard, I don't perceive Nick as any more sincere than Josh, and vice versa.  

 

That said, Andi's reaction to Josh's confession that he was falling in love with her in the Belgium (I think) episode vs her reaction to Nick's confidence and declaration of them getting married sealed my belief that it's Josh.

 

I've never cared about Josh's dating life, and if Andi does pick him, I disagree that it's some kind of flaw or character failing, which seems to be implied by some posts.  If Josh is her type, she knows it, and she's comfortable with it, I see no reason for her to choose Nick just because he's allegedly not what she's used to.  She may be one of the few Bachelorettes that's found a guy so compatible with her usual type.  Also, if you're gonna pursue any semblance of a relationship after the show, it's quite practical to live near the person.  I believe that's one reason why Ashley and JP worked out. Living in the same region and not having to pick up, move across the country, and completely change everything you may know, for someone you barely know, is quite the leap. 

 

Who knows what happens in the future with her F1, but if it's Josh, they probably have a better shot than most from the show, if only due to proximity. Mind you, I don't think location is the sole reason she might choose him, but I'd imagine it would be easier to sneak around and actually see each other, with no cameras around, between the end of production and the final episode airing.  

 

Of course, all of this is assuming Andi isn't looking to jumpstart her entertainment career and move to LA, heh.  

 

ETA;

Just saw @fib's post, and wholeheartedly agree about Chris.  I suspect he's always known Andi wasn't really interested long-term, so he played his position wisely. And why not? Might as well get something out of the farce.  Not that I believe Chris will find tru wuv as the Bachelor, either. But hey, might as well get paid, do some traveling, and meet some hot women.

Edited July 17, 2014 by ribboninthesky1

[NikSac]

I must like Chris too much, because I just don't see him as playing a game (ETA: well other than the fact that this whole thing is a game, but I didn't see him as vying for the next Bachelor spot). I like Marquel too. I wanted either of them to be the next Bachelor until I realized it might make me dislike them.

 

I am beginning to think I'm totally out of the norm though because everyone talks about how handsome Josh is and I don't see it at all.

Edited July 17, 2014 by NikSac

[panthergirl13]

I don't know why, but it kind of rubbed me the wrong way when Josh said something along the lines of him being certain he'd marry Andi and that she'd no longer be "Andi Dorfman" but "Andy Murray." Maybe it's just me, but it's 2014... women don't need to automatically take the husband's last name; she can keep her last name if she wants to.

And while we're at it, why does the Bachelorette pick the final guy but HE has to propose to HER?? Dumb.

[ribboninthesky1]

I am beginning to think I'm totally out of the norm though because everyone talks about how handsome Josh is and I don't see it at all.

 

Nope, not just you.  He does nothing for me.

 

I like Chris, Niksac, and think he's a nice guy.  If it were up to me, Chris would have been F1.  But that doesn't mean he wasn't strategic (or at least camera aware), either.  I think we've been conditioned to believe that good = completely open or honest and evil/devious = secretive or ulterior motives.  I don't think he came on the show just to pursue the Bachelor, but it's possible that he made sure to put his best face forward.  Also, I just never bought he was falling in love with Andi.  He liked her, was attracted to her, sure.  But I'm totally unconvinced he really saw himself long-term with Andi, just like she wasn't into him that way.  I remember a scene during his hometown date - he was showing Andi his tractor, and she was going on about it was bigger than she was.  And he just had this look on his face, and he blandly responded something like, "Hmmm-mmm."  Cracked me up. Also, when she called his house "cute," he had this blank expression.  I imagined him thinking, "Yeah, cute isn't the compliment you think it is." All my perception, of course.  

[NikSac]

True Ribboninthesky1. I liked Chris a lot but didn't see him with Andi at all - they just didn't seem to click like they 'should' have. I can see a "Farmer's Wife" version of The Bachelor that might be ok, as long as the women know they're looking at life in a tiny town in Iowa.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who isn't drooling over Josh.

[truthaboutluv]

I am beginning to think I'm totally out of the norm though because everyone talks about how handsome Josh is and I don't see it at all.

 

 

Nope, I share your view. To be fair, I was pretty honest from the first episode that gym-rat/weight-lifting jocks with too blinding white teeth do nothing for me. Frankly jocks in general do nothing for me. It's the same reason I never found anything hot or attractive about Sean from Emily's season. I have always been far more attracted to the more unconventional looking guys. 

 

My favorite aspect off Chris's dismissal? This guy clearly knows how to play the game, especially compared to Nick, who took all the heat for it!  Chris was always polite and Charming around Andi, while Nick found himself sullen and salty.  Chris understood the power of the pack, and seemed to have bros in the house to bolster his goodwill, while Nick was a lonewolf licking his sad 'I didn't get a one-on-one' wounds.  Chris played to the producers when appropriate, staging the lovely secret admirer letters and getting in on the Nick bashing when necessary. Nick was pretty good at this too, (with the flower delivery and the sneak away with Andi after Marcus' date), but his optics of his producer shenanigans were less good: the flowers appeared to come at Eric's expense, stealing away from his time, and the sneak away looked like he was stealing the romance of Marcus's night for his own advantage.

This is why, IMHO, Chris will be the next Bachelor even though no one realized he was playing the game so masterfully!

 

 

There's also one other explanation with regards to Nick - he wasn't playing a game and wasn't interested in auditioning to be the next Bachelor. And that while he was accused of strategizing, the person who was really guilty of strategizing may have been the one accusing him of it. And because he wasn't, is exactly why he was fine being openly "salty", fine with not worrying about being "one of the guys" and in his own words, "interested in being in a frat." Maybe the simple truth is there was no ulterior motive and Nick was just being himself and pursuing Andi as best as he could. Crazy thought I know...

 

I've always been skeptical of how genuine anyone can be while filming, so in that regard, I don't perceive Nick as any more sincere than Josh, and vice versa.

 

 

To be clear, I've always stated that I believe many of these people are guilty of being stockholmed while in the bubble which is why so few of the relationships from this show have lasted. This is why I made sure to state that I believed Nick to be genuine at that time - in other words that when he was in that bubble, caught up in all things Andi I do think he really did believe he was in love and so was genuine when telling her that. 

 

And I don't discount Josh probably being in the same state. They are all cut off from everything and are basically consumed by all things Andi and let's not forget the producers in their ear manipulating to get them to fall even harder. So I'm not necessarily saying Josh was being deliberately disingenuous. My disagreement was in the notion that because Nick "um'ed" and "like" all throughout his declaration to Andi that it was somehow less genuine than Josh's. Because like I said, I think it was more that even while caught up in the bubble, there was the small part of Nick that clearly still recognized that this whole thing lends itself to just falling completely flat on your face and that the circumstances are far from ideal or natural.

 

I've never cared about Josh's dating life, and if Andi does pick him, I disagree that it's some kind of flaw or character failing, which seems to be implied by some posts.

 

 

Can't speak for anyone else but it's not so much I find Josh's dating life a character failing or flaw but more that I don't buy it. I just think there's a significant part of the story he's leaving out to Andi. Of course I may be way off base but it's a gut feeling. I don't think it's necessarily that he's trying to be deceitful, just that he's presenting this sanitized version of things to her. I don't know, I just don't buy the "I haven't had any relationships/haven't dated in 5 years but after 6 weeks, you're all it for me..." Nope, sorry something about it just rings my b.s. meter. 

 

If Josh is her type, she knows it, and she's comfortable with it, I see no reason for her to choose Nick just because he's allegedly not what she's used to.

 

 

I've thought that Andi would choose Josh since about Episode 2 or 3 and that Nick would be the F2 and I have zero issue with that. I like Nick, but I'm serious when I say I pretty much always lay odds on the relationship coming from this show failing anyway so I don't think it'll be some great loss to him if she picks Josh. Though I'm sure he'd naturally be hurt at the time.

 

That being said, as the season has winded down, I admit to being curious to seeing how and what Andi says if she does let Nick go and picks Josh. Because while the editing has certainly played up the physical connection with Josh and Andi, they keep showing her talking about how connected she feels to Nick on every level. That's a factor that has remained constant with Andi throughout the season with regards to Nick - that she just feels so comfortable and so herself with him and then on top of that she talks about his kisses and their makeouts like it causes every part of her to tingle.

 

So I am curious to hear the reason she gives for why she doesn't pick him and to her credit I think she's been fairly articulate in letting both Chris and Marcus go. Of course I recognize that the editing may have just hidden the strength of her and Josh's relationship and I said as much a few weeks ago. That if she picks him, I think the editing would have done them a disservice because they were far more focused on her showing her doubts about him and making Nick a villain. 

Edited July 17, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[NoWhammies]

Re Chris's handling of Andi's rejection: to quote Andi when she says it about really stupid stuff, "Now that's a real man."

 

He handled it beautifully. 

[LunaNegra]

@violetr, is the book you're talking about The Feast Of The Goat by Mario Vargas Llosa? One of my favorite books of all time! I've read it very long ago though, so it's not the first thing on my mind when I think of the Dominical Republic. The thing that does come to mind is Bachata, the music/dance Andi did on a date with Juan Pablo in Miami. 

 

I thought of "In the Time of Butterflies" a historical novel by Julia Alveraz (and later a movie starring Marc Anthony) about the Mirabal sisters fighting the Truillio regime. Heartbreaking.  Those women were/are truly inspirational.

 

But add me to the list of those that cringed every time Andi called it "The Domincan.".   It's like saying "Welcome to Puerto (instead of Puerto Rico) or "Welcome to the United" (States).  Just wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

Can't say I like either one.  I want Nick, in his talking heads,  to stop tilting his head and shrugging his shoulders. He's going to end up a hunched old man. Boy, stand straight and for the love of God, pull your shoulders back.

Edited July 17, 2014 by LunaNegra

[backformore]

And while we're at it, why does the Bachelorette pick the final guy but HE has to propose to HER?? Dumb.

Yeah, it's like she gets to say -   You get the final rose.  Now you must propose to me.  It's the one thing that bugs me the most.  The person, Bachelor or Bachelorette, who is handing out the roses, doing the choosing, should be the one proposing. 

 

 

 

[Superpole2000]

How does the lead on this show live with themselves? Watching your eventual runner up fall hard for you, knowing full well you are about to cut out their heart on TV...I just don't know how a normal, considerate person would be okay with doing that to someone. At least dumping Chris was made easier by the fact that Chris wasn't particularly invested in Andi or desperate to be win this little competition. Dumping Josh or Nick is going to be less comfortable, and I can't wait to watch Andi squirm under the stress of this horrible human experiment.

[JudyObscure]

I know.  They must keep telling themselves over and over that it's what they signed up for but saying sweet loving things to Nick or Josh while knowing full well she's choosing the other seems -- well-- actressey.

Edited July 17, 2014 by JudyObscure

[ribboninthesky1]

Can't speak for anyone else but it's not so much I find Josh's dating life a character failing or flaw but more that I don't buy it. I just think there's a significant part of the story he's leaving out to Andi. Of course I may be way off base but it's a gut feeling. I don't think it's necessarily that he's trying to be deceitful, just that he's presenting this sanitized version of things to her. I don't know, I just don't buy the "I haven't had any relationships/haven't dated in 5 years but after 6 weeks, you're all it for me..." Nope, sorry something about it just rings my b.s. meter.

 

That's fair. I perceive Josh's dating history as leighdear does, though Josh's general self-absorption is a much bigger red flag to me. Also, when I referenced failing or flaw, I was referring to Andi potentially choosing Josh over Nick. I don't think it's a poor or bad choice for her to go with what she knows is her type, and is attracted to. If she wasn't interested in Josh, I could see why it might be.  But it's apparent that she is.

 

I've thought that Andi would choose Josh since about Episode 2 or 3 and that Nick would be the F2 and I have zero issue with that. I like Nick, but I'm serious when I say I pretty much always lay odds on the relationship coming from this show failing anyway so I don't think it'll be some great loss to him if she picks Josh. Though I'm sure he'd naturally be hurt at the time. [...]

 

That being said, as the season has winded down, I admit to being curious to seeing how and what Andi says if she does let Nick go and picks Josh. Because while the editing has certainly played up the physical connection with Josh and Andi, they keep showing her talking about how connected she feels to Nick on every level. That's a factor that has remained constant with Andi throughout the season with regards to Nick - that she just feels so comfortable and so herself with him and then on top of that she talks about his kisses and their makeouts like it causes every part of her to tingle.

 

I went back and watched the beginning of the episode where Andi talks about the 3 men. Then I watched her reaction to Nick's love declaration, and her reaction to Josh's. Yes, Andi references how passionate Nick is, their mental connection, and how Nick sees who she is without her having to say it.

 

But, according to Andi, it's Josh she feels she can be completely herself with, even the less than desirable aspects. And we also see her bring that up in the evening portion of their date, as if she's really concerned about it. That she feels comfortable enough with Josh to bring it up is key to me as well. Comparing the two dates, she seemed a lot less reserved and more vulnerable with Josh compared to Nick. I agree with whoever said the Nick date was rather awkward, though much of that was Nick word salading (ha!) all over the place.  I almost wonder if Andi's description of Nick as passionate is her way of saying he's coming on too strong for her.  But she can't really say that, since she was all "Come and get some!" earlier in the season. I suspect Andi likes the romantic aggression as long as she's feeling it as well.

So I suppose it's a matter of perception. I think Andi is attracted to Nick and likes Nick, but I've just never seen her react to Nick the same way she does to Josh. Regardless of what's spliced and diced from THs and voice-overs, Andi's body language, which is a lot harder to conceal, tells the tale for me. I'm sure we'll get much crying and melodrama from Andi if it's not Nick, but I think it's simple: Josh is the one she wants, and has wanted since early on. In real life, no explanation would be necessary.  But on this show, they have to drag out the angst as much as possible.

[MarkHB]

I got the feeling that Andi was struggling with the decision of which would be the easier thing for Chris to hear: "I'm not big on the idea of moving to rural Iowa and commuting 90 miles to work" vs. "You're a great guy, but I'm just not that into you." And I can see those both being hard, particularly where he's a farmer and essentially BOUND TO ONE PARTICULAR PLOT OF LAND THAT'S GOING TO BE IN HIS FAMILY FOREVER. If Chris is the new Bachelor, it'll be interesting to see if they have many girls who would be willing to forgo the modern "highly mobile, urban" lifestyle in favor of living on a farm, or if that angle turns out to be a bust and he pivots to the Ben Flajnik plan of "screw it, I'll just bang a model."

[Adeejay]

I admit to being curious to seeing how and what Andi says if she does let Nick go and picks Josh.

 

If Andi dumps Nick, she really doesn’t owe him an explanation other than, “I prefer Josh.” That is it.  The premise of the show is to take two people to the F2 and pick one.  Nick will not be the first contestant that was “lead on” by the Bachelor/ette and he most certainly will not be the last.  Some F2s go quietly, and some make their feelings known.  Given how cocksure Nick has been, if he isn’t the last guy standing, he will probably be shock and devastated.  Hopefully it won’t send him back “underground for six months.”

[truthaboutluv]

I certainly never meant to infer that Nick was "owed" an explanation for why he is not Andi's pick if she picks Josh. But that I was merely curious what she would say because yes, she could simply say "I prefer Josh" but as pointed out, this is a show and it rarely works out like that. Look how long her sending Chris home was dragged out. So no, I don't think Nick is owed anything and I have certainly never judged Andi for "leading him on".

As I stated above, I like Nick but have zero investment in Andi picking him. Yeah I'm sure it won't be fun being dumped on national television but I'm sure he'll be just fine and move on with his life. I also would not use his being heartbroken for 6 months over someone he had 7 years of back and forth with as some sign that he can't handle break-ups, especially when that "break-up" comes from some woman he only knew a few weeks. I imagine once back in the real world, Nick like many others got over their stockholmed haze.

Edited July 17, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[leighdear]

 

I don't think it's a poor or bad choice for her to go with what she knows is her type, and is attracted to. If she wasn't interested in Josh, I could see why it might be.  But it's apparent that she is.

This is one reason I like Andi so much.  She came on the show saying that she wanted to meet guys that were different, not her usual type (as Josh is), and see if she could be attracted to them in a profound way.  She found that with Nick, obviously. 

 

But Josh continued to pull her in, despite her fears that he would revert to "type" and would probably break her heart, as had happened in the past.  Nick, was the less risky, less fearsome option.  

 

And in terms of the family aspect, Andi understands Josh's family and their activities at a fundamental level, because they are much like her family, and do the things her family does.  She would seamlessly blend into them.   I saw little indication of how Nick's family "works" or how Andi would fit, though I'm she understands it.  

 

So to my eyes, her bringing Josh to the finals and facing the fear she's repeatedly verbalized, is very brave.   Some may see it as her being "starstruck", lazy, superficial, etc., but I think it's ballsy.  

[Madding crowd]

I think people have more levels to tell than being a "jock" or "nerd"etc. Someone can play sports and still be intelligent and have other interests; nerds can like computers but still have social skills. Neither Josh nor Sean Lowe struck me as dumb roid jocks and Nick doesn't strike me as a typical salesman either.

I also don't have a problem with Josh saying Mrs Murray. I think most guys have a dream of someone sharing their name and life, it doesn't have to be literal. I'm sure Josh would be fine if Andi keeps her name (not sure Chris would be though).

[MsPH]

I am beginning to think I'm totally out of the norm though because everyone talks about how handsome Josh is and I don't see it at all.

 

I don't either. Whoever said he looks like Gaston is spot on. He looks like a cartoon, and Sharleen screencapping his cartoon faces doesn't really help matters. (But is oh so funny.) He's way too pumped for my liking as well. I guess Andi likes it though, since she even kept Cody around for no apparent reason.

 

I also found it cringeworthy when Andi kept referring to the Dominican Republic as "The Dominican". The only explanation I can think of is that she was confusing the place with Dominica and thus thought there's no need to mention the Republic part. Maybe she should brush up on her geography skills.

[Padma]

I thought "The Dominican" might be what locals called it. No? Then ITA it was weird.

 

I actually -do- blame Andi for leading one of them on. I don't see how anyone with a shred of empathy and genuine emotion for someone (much less having heard he loves you and, I believe, slept with him knowing that), could keep leading him on for the purpose of doing a show.

 

To me, I think Andi finds Nick cute and his attention is flattering and they have a good time on these dates, but if she never saw him again she wouldn't be pining for him. Josh, on the other hand, would be "the one that got away". Until he told her "I love you", I think Josh was always the one she was hoping for but thought was "too good to be true". Nick was her insurance policy. But she has been so convincing with him that he doesn't even think there's a CHANCE it could really be Josh. (Yes, Eric called it. She's an actress, and a rather heartless one at that.)

 

This show is like childbirth--having that painful ending that for some reason, you always forget about. Andi's been very successful as a bachelorette in playing the game and getting--not one or two, but at least four men to fall in love with her (I think Nick, Josh and possibly Chris were more serious than Marcus, though he would have proposed too, so there's that).It's a weird premise that should make the "lead" feel bad, but most don't seem to. I think Andi--whomever she chooses--will be one who doesn't suffer that much about it, too. (Even after the hometown visits--that's the most amazing thing to me because it should have made the pain and embarrassment and hurt so real to her, but... guess not.) 

[Adeejay]

I thought "The Dominican" might be what locals called it.

 

 

The Dominicans in New York City say "The Dominican" or "DR". 

[violetr]

But she has been so convincing with him that he doesn't even think there's a CHANCE it could really be Josh. (Yes, Eric called it. She's an actress, and a rather heartless one at that.)

 

Leaving aside for a moment my convinction that you have to be pretty crazy to go on a show like this in the first place, I'm curious to know if you think she's any worse than any of the other Bachelor/Bachelorettes? I think she's one of the better ones, and have found her to be less of a phony and and actress than, say, Emily. To a degree, though, they ALL have to act. It is a TV show after all. More than a few leads have admitted that they knew their top one or two very early on, but I don't think any of them have moped and rolled their eyes all through their seasons when not with their chosen ones.

[chocolatine]

I thought "The Dominican" might be what locals called it.

 

The Dominicans in New York City say "The Dominican" or "DR".

 

 

 

It's still cringe-worthy when non-locals, especially those who've never been to the country before, refer to it in the same way that locals do.

[Padma]

I'm curious to know if you think she's any worse than any of the other Bachelor/Bachelorettes? I think she's one of the better ones, and have found her to be less of a phony and and actress than, say, Emily. To a degree, though, they ALL have to act. It is a TV show after all. More than a few leads have admitted that they knew their top one or two very early on, but I don't think any of them have moped and rolled their eyes all through their seasons when not with their chosen ones.

 

No, I don't think she's worse than the others and it's true that B-ettes I liked better like Trista and Meredith also led their F2s on (Meredith, in particular, with the "we'll be spending Christmas together" thing--something anyone would take as a hint.)  It's just that I can't imagine doing this--Flirting? Yes, leading on a man who is in love with you and expects to propose (instead of get dumped) on camera? No.

 

I think mainly I'm surprised at myself, how again and again I look forward to this cheesy show, the personalities, the places they go, even the "love story", then it suddenly gets real, with people really getting hurt in front of millions of people and I ask myself (all over again), "Why do I watch this?" But, of course, I will watch it.  I just wish it was more of a "dating show", where you're looking for love and when you find it you don't have to lead anyone else on anymore.  (And, yes, I guess it'd be hard to get sponsors for a show that "may be over in 10 weeks or in 2".)

 

As much as I like Chris, it makes me wonder: why am I hoping he'll be the next Bachelor? Because it'll just be "leading someone on, blindsiding them and breaking their heart" all over again.