S01.E10: Freeyond

[AnimeMania]

Nathan’s restored memories and shifting emotional allegiances put Nora in physical danger.

Airdate: May 1, 2020

[ally862]

I loved it.  I expected it to be a lighthearted show but I like the mystery piece and am probably in the minority but didn't see Nathan being the "bad guy" coming.  

I really hope it gets renewed because I want to see where it goes.  I was kind of hoping Croak would sponsor Nathan but oh well.

Also, very superficial but I love Ingrid's outfit in the last scene.

[AnimeMania]

I really enjoyed the show, I watched it all the way through without stopping. I liked the way they contrast the rich and the poor people's living situations, with the cramped spaces of poor people of New York against the wide open spaces of the rich people in Los Angeles and the Virtual Reality World. All that the people of the future seem to do is work and have meaningless sex.

Everybody was so pleasant, I didn't have any trouble staying engaged. One thing I found weird was the funeral, I didn't believe that people would gather together in 3 different States to come to a funeral. Especially if anybody anywhere could put on some VR googles and hang out and party with the dead person instead of just looking at them through a big window.  I know which one I would rather do. 

Another weird thing was that bomb that was slid under the door and exploded the computers. It didn't seem to cause any damage and there didn't seem to be any reason for them to do it.

I am a little disappointed that the story hadn't progressed farther by the end of the season. The stuff at the end with the magic coding seems very far fetched and was the weakest part of the series.

It seems strange to me that the VR people are no longer allowed to work or provide financial advice to the living. It must be hard to justify the expense of keeping them around indefinitely.

[QQQQ]

Fantastic! I actually regret binging it, as it would have been awesome to look forward to each week during these equally strange times.

[ClareWalks]

I liked the show a LOT, but there were a few plot holes that I was constantly distracted by. I keep wondering how Dylan (the kid who fell into the Grand Canyon) got uploaded. He fell to his death. No way to upload him. Basically it seems like anyone who dies unexpectedly or in an accident would be totally unable to do this, unless they committed "suicide" in advance of what would be their natural death. Also I cannot imagine wanting to do this in the first place. Or being able to. Everything costs money, and eternity is a long time (even 100 years is a long time). Imagine having to save for a 100-year retirement, or a 1000-year retirement. Even the billionaires would eventually run out of cash. What happens to the upload if they run out of cash? Where does the "soul" go? (If they can't afford 2G either) I did enjoy the show but these questions were just not satisfyingly answered at all.

Edited May 4, 2020 by ClareWalks

[Ottis]

The ending was dumb. Nora knows Nathan changed since uploading, and has realized he was an ass. Why would he suddenly revert? Also, I'm less interested in social messages and more wondering how anyone who is uploaded to such a boring existence doesn't kill themselves within a few months. The world building, and the story, seemed to focus on silly things and not more interesting ones. Great concept. Needs more thought.

[Avabelle]

I didn’t really think The twist of Nathan being the bad guy was that bad.. he did it for hiS family. I don’t really understand why Nora felt so betrayed. I also feel like they had to dumb her down for the ending to work. She works for horizon and knew he was downsizing so how she might not figure out he could run out of gigs...

Didnt see the ending with Ingrid coming but I’m here for it.. I love her.

[Anela]

I liked it, but why did Ingrid upload?? Was she too ashamed of being dumped? He was cute, but not THAT cute. 

I guess she wasn't referring to Nate, when she said she heard what "you two" were planning. He hands over what her dad wanted, and then they kill him so that they don't have to pay anything. 

Nora would surely have known that he'd be using up his data really fast. 

[jcin617]

20 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

I liked the show a LOT, but there were a few plot holes that I was constantly distracted by. I keep wondering how Dylan (the kid who fell into the Grand Canyon) got uploaded. He fell to his death. No way to upload him.

Imagine having to save for a 100-year retirement, or a 1000-year retirement. Even the billionaires would eventually run out of cash. What happens to the upload if they run out of cash? 

As for Dylan, I can only assume he wasn't fully dead when he hit the bottom, and he was "alive" enough to scan.   

For paying for things after you are uploaded: maybe there's some kind of investment plan that can generate enough income to pay for you.  After all, the only expense you have is the service itself (and whatever options you add).

My biggest head-scratcher was the fact there's only one instance of "you" that moves around on a hard drive.   You're talking about people's digital souls - you think they'd back that up.  (I mean, coming from IT - how would they manage a disaster recovery scenario?  An accidental deletion?  etc.)

[dovegrey]

I finished watching this series yesterday. Overall, I very much enjoyed it and am excited for (hopefully) a season 2. It balanced the drama, mystery, and comedy aspects really well; that's my kind of show. The characters are all likable - or, at least, enjoyable - both in Lakeview and in the real world.

Like others, I thought this episode was the weakest. If the coding tool can be used to the extent shown (the reverse Matrix-y stuff with maps and routes was somewhat believable, but the elevator thing was ridiculous), then why didn't Nathan use it to give himself unlimited gigs? Or plan to use it to live in Lakeview invisibly or with a non-playable character/NPC identity? And Nora, who has been so smart and quick-witted, suddenly forgets how the system works and doesn't realize that Nathan may have ran out of gigs? The cliffhanger ending was all contrived and not well executed, which is disappointing because I thought the rest of the season was quite smart.

I also failed to see THAT big of a deal about Nathan selling out his business partner. He did it to help his family, not be a Big Bad jerk about it. I suppose what helped Nora fall for him was Nathan's emphasis on helping the underserved with the app, and then his passion for helping the 2 gigs - the "real" Nathan undermined that when he sold out his company. That's all I've got to explain it.

I'm skeptical that Ingrid really uploaded. If she really did upload, then I'm convinced that Nathan was killed because his code or program could be used to make re-downloading a successful option. THAT would devastate the Upload industry more than Freeyond, IMO - why pay for an infinite upload service when you can download into a cloned body? Re-downloading has to be the catch to all this. Otherwise, why even explore the concept of redownloading, unless that's how Nathan and Nora are going to end up happily ever after?

I'm curious about Ingrid's overall role in this whole thing. To me, it's obvious that she was only with Nathan to conduct corporate espionage/keep him on a leash for her dad, then fell for him (I mean, she slept in a sexsuit while jammed into a bath tub to be with him...), then pushed for him to upload instead of being killed. But I don't know - did she kill Fran Booth, after Fran told her about investigating Nathan's death? Or did Ingrid's father upload Ingrid and alter her memories (I mean, Nathan broke up with her, so why upload)?

And what was the point of the servers being blown up or whatever happened when the Horizen power went out? 

Yeah, so. I really enjoyed this one and was sad when the season ended. 

(P.S. Andy Allo is a revelation here. I didn't like her at all on Chicago Fire - but she can carry a show!)

Edited May 5, 2020 by dovegrey

[kib]

Quote

(P.S. Andy Allo is a revelation here. I didn't like her at all on Chicago Fire - but she can carry a show!)

She's the straw that stirs the drink.  I'll admit, this is the first time I've seen her work and I'm mighty impressed. I was racking my brain who she reminded me of in terms of both quality of work and appearance.

  Ding...ding...ding... Cush Jumbo.

Edited May 6, 2020 by kib

[iMonrey]

Quote

I guess she wasn't referring to Nate, when she said she heard what "you two" were planning. He hands over what her dad wanted, and then they kill him so that they don't have to pay anything. 

Oh, is that it? I was confused. It sounded like Ingrid's dad TRIED to have Nathan killed (why, I don't know - Nathan sold him a copy of his code) but Ingrid changed the setting to "protect occupant." Except . . . the car DID crash and Nathan DID die. I don't think I'm following this very well, except that I guess the show wants to keep that mystery ongoing. 

I wish there had been more closure in this episode. God knows when we'll get another season, if at all, and this could have been a nice, 10-run limited series. Instead we just got a lot of set-up, and now a lot of waiting.

Quote

(P.S. Andy Allo is a revelation here. I didn't like her at all on Chicago Fire - but she can carry a show!)

OMG I watched the whole thing and didn't even realize that was her.

I said this in another thread, but the actress has a vocal fry problem that drove me nuts. I don't know why this has become such a widespread problem with actresses but I wish directors would step in and correct it. Go watch any TV show or any movie prior to 1990 or so and you will NEVER hear it, but now it's everywhere. Women drop their voices back into their throats and sort of croak out their lines like they don't have the strength to put any force behind their voice.

Drives. Me. NUTS.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Oh, is that it? I was confused. It sounded like Ingrid's dad TRIED to have Nathan killed (why, I don't know - Nathan sold him a copy of his code) but Ingrid changed the setting to "protect occupant." Except . . . the car DID crash and Nathan DID die. I don't think I'm following this very well, except that I guess the show wants to keep that mystery ongoing. 

Ingrid’s dad had Nathan killed so that he didn’t have to pay for the code. I don’t think Ingrid was trying to save Nathan’s life. She just wanted for him to survive the crash long enough to be uploaded. Her father wanted him to die instantly because Nathan being uploaded jeopardizes their plans. Also it seems that the uploaded still have money so Nathan being “alive” means that he (and Jamie) can came after Freeyond for their stolen idea. 

[Jediknight]

44 minutes ago, Dani said:

Ingrid’s dad had Nathan killed so that he didn’t have to pay for the code. I don’t think Ingrid was trying to save Nathan’s life. She just wanted for him to survive the crash long enough to be uploaded. Her father wanted him to die instantly because Nathan being uploaded jeopardizes their plans. Also it seems that the uploaded still have money so Nathan being “alive” means that he (and Jamie) can came after Freeyond for their stolen idea. 

I don't think it's him not wanting to pay for the code.  Something else is going on, someone's pulling the strings.  We don't know who shut down the servers, who messed with Nathan's memories, and who hired the assassin.  There's something beyond not wanting to pay for the code.

Maybe Nathan coded something that's huge, but he doesn't even realize it.  We saw in this episode that he can control anything with no problem.  Perhaps he coded something even bigger in Beyond, and didn't even realize it.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Jediknight said:

I don't think it's him not wanting to pay for the code.  Something else is going on, someone's pulling the strings.  We don't know who shut down the servers, who messed with Nathan's memories, and who hired the assassin.  There's something beyond not wanting to pay for the code.

Maybe Nathan coded something that's huge, but he doesn't even realize it.  We saw in this episode that he can control anything with no problem.  Perhaps he coded something even bigger in Beyond, and didn't even realize it.

Probably but I’m also assuming that they didn’t pay him for the code because Nathan and his mom are broke.
I’m sure there something bigger involved but is there any reason to assume Ingrid’s dad  wasn’t behind all of the other stuff?

Edited May 8, 2020 by Guest

[dovegrey]

12 hours ago, Dani said:

Probably but I’m also assuming that they didn’t pay him for the code because Nathan and his mom are broke.
I’m sure there something bigger involved but is there any reason to assume Ingrid’s dad  wasn’t behind all of the other stuff?

I thought Nora said she thinks all of that other stuff goes beyond Nathan's backdoor deal with Ingrid's dad and that someone above her dad is pulling strings. Admittedly, I tuned out part of her big speech at the end.

Ingrid's dad would be an idiot if he's behind the server stuff, Fran, and the attempt to kill Nora. All that to essentially hide the truth from Jamie? Give him a few mil and an NDA. Boom.

I think Nathan stumbled on a way to download Uploads into clones. That's big enough to explain the scope of the conspiracy to keep Nathan quiet.

Edited May 8, 2020 by dovegrey

[Guest]

1 hour ago, dovegrey said:

I thought Nora said she thinks all of that other stuff goes beyond Nathan's backdoor deal with Ingrid's dad and that someone above her dad is pulling strings. Admittedly, I tuned out part of her big speech at the end.

Ingrid's dad would be an idiot if he's behind the server stuff, Fran, and the attempt to kill Nora. All that to essentially hide the truth from Jamie? Give him a few mil and an NDA. Boom.

It wouldn’t surprise me but it seems just has likely that Ingrid’s dad is directly involved with the something bigger. I’ve been stuck on how complicated Nathan’s death was. It required a lot of skill and special access to arrange which makes me think that her dad is involved with all the other things even if he is more minion than mastermind. 

To your last point I think they established that Jamie wouldn’t agree to any deal. The whole reason Nathan had to sell the code on the side is because Jamie was to idealistic to make a deal. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

We don't know who shut down the servers,

That incident was caused by a fringe group of activists opposed to Uploading. We saw them picketing in the same episode, they simply don't believe in it, and seemingly their action WRT to servers was to demonstrate the dangers of virtual living - hence, not destroying the framework but making everyone look like silly cartoon characters. More of a prank than anything else, but meant to deliver a message. 

I don't think that has anything to do with the overall mystery, but was more of a one-off showing another viewpoint in this world. It coincided with Nora's father's visit to Lakeside, and he objects to Uploading too.

Edited May 8, 2020 by iMonrey

[dovegrey]

2 hours ago, Dani said:

It wouldn’t surprise me but it seems just has likely that Ingrid’s dad is directly involved with the something bigger. I’ve been stuck on how complicated Nathan’s death was. It required a lot of skill and special access to arrange which makes me think that her dad is involved with all the other things even if he is more minion than mastermind. 

To your last point I think they established that Jamie wouldn’t agree to any deal. The whole reason Nathan had to sell the code on the side is because Jamie was to idealistic to make a deal. 

He wouldn't agree to a deal to sell out the company outright, but would he agree to a deal to not make trouble when/if he discovers the code has been copied? I mean, he'd only be able to sue for copyright infringement (or something similar), so it could even be packaged as a lawsuit settlement with a standard NDA. Plus, if he's so upright and virtuous, why not kill or disappear him, since it seems like anyone who is remotely involved is an easy target (e.g., Fran, Nora)? Why kill the guy who is willing to be paid off but leave the other guy alone? (I think this is probably a plothole.)

This kind of make me thinks Jamie could be more involved than we know, and he wasn't being honest when he spoke with Nathan. Or potentially Nathan's memories were altered and he's not remembering everything or not remembering the correct version of events. (I never understood how the memories that were damaged during the initial upload--before they were stolen from Nora's computer--suddenly became retrievable after the Lakeview system update. I know Nora was trying to fix those memories, but I feel like I missed something there.)

Edited May 8, 2020 by dovegrey

[Avabelle]

7 minutes ago, dovegrey said:

 

This kind of make me thinks Jamie could be more involved than we know, and he wasn't being honest when he spoke with Nathan. Or potentially Nathan's memories were altered and he's not remembering everything or not remembering the correct version of events. (I never understood how the memories that were damaged during the initial upload--before they were stolen from Nora's computer--suddenly became retrievable after the Lakeview system update. I know Nora was trying to fix those memories, but I feel like I missed something there.)

The resolution to Jamie’s character bugged me. I thought he was set up for a bigger role then he ended up getting. I’d liked to have seen him have scenes with Ingrid.

[Guest]

Something that has been bugging me throughout the show is the existence of an prioritize occupant mode. I understand the point the show is trying to make but it’s seems unrealistic even in the world of the show. That’s one of my biggest issues with the show. They go just a step to far to make the point and it becomes absurd rather than thought provoking. 

42 minutes ago, dovegrey said:

He wouldn't agree to a deal to sell out the company outright, but would he agree to a deal to not make trouble when/if he discovers the code has been copied?

I doubt it. Most people do not suddenly become more cooperative after they find out they have been cheated. 

45 minutes ago, dovegrey said:

I mean, he'd only be able to sue for copyright infringement (or something similar), so it could even be packaged as a lawsuit settlement with a standard NDA.

He could go public and torpedo Freeyond before is even launches and use the publicity to get funding for his own project. If it came to light after Freeyond was successful he may be entitled to a part of the profits which would be much greater than any payoff they would give him.
I have no clue why they didn’t kill Jamie other than it being a giant plot hole. Killing Jamie and making a deal with Nathan would have been a lot more logical than what happened. 

48 minutes ago, dovegrey said:

This kind of make me thinks Jamie could be more involved than we know, and he wasn't being honest when he spoke with Nathan. 

Unfortunately I think that’s just bad writing. They wanted Jamie to be a red herring for the reveal that Nathan was actually the bad one and ignored any realistic character development to get there.
 

If Jamie was involved in the conspiracy the other company wouldn’t have needed Nathan to give them the code. Jamie owned the company so he owned the code. They still might have killed Nathan to shut down any challenge or bad press but the deal between Nathan and Ingrid’s dad would have been unnecessary. 

4 hours ago, dovegrey said:

I thought Nora said she thinks all of that other stuff goes beyond Nathan's backdoor deal with Ingrid's dad and that someone above her dad is pulling strings. Admittedly, I tuned out part of her big speech at the end.

This reminds me that I did not get this conclusion at all. We’re talking about a billion dollar industry that continues for eternity. How is that not big enough to explain murder and computer hacking? Obviously they are right but it was a ridiculous conclusion. 

[kieyra]

This is the first new show that’s managed to capture my attention in the post-Pandemic world, so I’ll give it props for that. (How creepy was it that some people were wearing masks on the train in the pilot?)

A lot of it was down to the casting (and yes, I thought it was Cush Jumbo in the stills/artwork. Same haircut and huge eyes). She is very, very watchable. 

I did enjoy their vision of the logical extension of our current late-stage-capitalism dystopia. 

But yeah, the mystery arc did itself a disservice by trying to zag when we expected it to zig. And the holes in Nathan’s memory (meant to conceal the “reveal”) meant I spent a lot of the season not really understanding his character backstory at all.

And yeah, I thought I missed something with the bomb.

I want a ring drive. 

[AnimeMania]

2 hours ago, kieyra said:

This is the first new show that’s managed to capture my attention in the post-Pandemic world, so I’ll give it props for that. (How creepy was it that some people were wearing masks on the train in the pilot?)

I thought the masks were more, this is the future and the air quality hasn't gotten any better in the crowded city.

[maddie965]

I find it very interesting that the show unintentionally works as a metaphor for what's happening today. Every time Nathan woke up in Lake View he felt disoriented and hopeless, feeling like he was trapped in the same senseless reality, where nothing could be really accomplished. And then he had to decide what to do with his time. Isn't that how many people feel in quarantine?

I do love the whole setup for the series, and the levity of it. And I adore Nora and Nathan together. But yeah, I wish the story didn't have so many plotholes. For me, Nathan's death makes no sense. Also Ingrid saying that she had to protect him at Horizon makes even less sense. Wasn't she talking about deleting him two episodes ago? Than there's the conversation between Nathan and Jamie, where Jamie seems embarrassed for having cheated on him. Shouldn't he be mad about the betrayal? And why was the other guy killed? The one who didn't buy Freeyond?

And don't even get me started on the magical Matrix technology that allows Nathan to control that elevator from the afterlife. By the way, was that guy dead when the door opened? Is Nathan a killer now?

Oh and, like Dani pointed out, the ethical implications of an automated car where you can prioritize the occupants are scary. Is humanity completely lost in this future?

Still, watching the episodes was a lot if fun. And I'm hooked. I really hope that some of the plot hokes are not just bad wrinting, and there's a big master plan behind it all. We'll see.

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by maddie965

[AuntiePam]

1 hour ago, maddie965 said:

And don't even get me started on the magical Matrix technology that allows Nathan to control that elevator from the afterlife. By the way, was that guy dead when the door opened? Is Nathan a killer now?

 

He's most definitely dead.  The elevator car was smeared with red.  But that's okay, because the guy was after Nora, and because we saw him kill that woman on the street who tried to stop him. [sarcasm]  Not quite situational ethics. 

Good question, on how that magical icon allowed Nathan to control anything in the real world, let alone make an elevator do what that elevator did.  An elevator might move down that fast, but not up.  At least I don't think it could. 

[kieyra]

Yeah, when he went Hollywood hacker I had to just roll with it, because (as far as I remember), they haven’t done anything to show us he’s technically inclined—they’ve only *told* us he made an app or something. And he had zero character shading that I usually associate with technical competence. 

[Cotypubby]

14 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I thought the masks were more, this is the future and the air quality hasn't gotten any better in the crowded city.

That’s probably what they were going for, but it sure plays differently now. 
 

I was certain that the creepy incel co-worker was going to be involved with the conspiracy or some thing. The close-up of the hand planting the bomb looked like his body type. 
 

I enjoyed watching the show, but there were way too many plot threads that were just left hanging. I know they want to leave us wanting a second season but nothing felt resolved, or like any kind of a satisfactory conclusion. And now who knows how long we’ll have to wait to get any answers, if ever.

[t7686]

I liked this a lot. The story is interesting and the   Characters are fun, complex and engaging. I’m glad it was renewed for season 2, though who knows when we’ll get it 😞 that said, this was the worst episode by far. Why didn’t Nora VR to him? Wouldn’t she realize he probably ran out of gigs? Or couldn’t he have just said he was running out of gigs? You can control elevators from heaven? He just casually killed someone? The list goes on. The twist with Ingrid uploading is an intriguing shift. I’m curious to see where this goes! I hope we get to see Nathan’s family more. They seem a little... off and I want to know mote. 

[Lola82]

I really enjoyed some of the side characters in this show mostly because of the actors that portrayed them - the AI butler made me laugh in every episode even though he usually has 1 line. 

[twoods]

I loved this series, but I agree that this was definitely the weakest episode of the season. It would have worked better if it was a little longer like the premiere because everything felt rushed. I was also getting annoyed with Nora, especially her stringing along Byron while whining to Nathan how he’s immoral. I still love their chemistry, but she was so unlikable this episode. 
 

I like the actor that plays Jamie so I hope he gets more involved in season 2. I like that they didn’t make him or Ingrid the bad guys.

[Mabinogia]

20 hours ago, Lola82 said:

I really enjoyed some of the side characters in this show mostly because of the actors that portrayed them - the AI butler made me laugh in every episode even though he usually has 1 line. 

He has a very expressive face. Some of his facial reactions were hilarious. 

[Jediknight]

On 5/18/2020 at 12:35 AM, twoods said:

I like the actor that plays Jamie so I hope he gets more involved in season 2. I like that they didn’t make him or Ingrid the bad guys.

Definitely a better role for him than his role on Suits, where he played somebody we were supposed to like, but they wrote him like the dumbest lawyer imaginable.

[Danny Franks]

I definitely felt bad for Nora, when she realised Nathan didn't remember her. Then even more when she saw the restored memories and realised Nathan screwed Jamie over. Andy Allo has a very expressive face.

The fake out was a bit weak. I don't think it's in character for Nathan to be so cold to Nora, even if he was embarrassed. Also, how could Nathan talk to Luke about it without being worried about Nora listening in?

The image of the skinny guy climbing into Nora's window while she's sat right there, completely unaware, was quite unsettling. Reminded me of Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, where Deckard's wife is so obsessed with her VR world that she barely notices the real one.

But Nora discovered Nathan has feet of clay, after building him up as this perfect guy, and I guess her reaction to it was understandable. I don't know why she didn't figure he would be out of data. She knows how this world works.

The image of frozen, out-of-data Nathan with one tear slowly rolling down his grey cheek was the cheesiest, most unintentionally hilarious image I've seen in a long time.

Ingrid uploaded? That seems... extreme.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Danny Franks

[Mabinogia]

On 5/19/2020 at 1:05 PM, Danny Franks said:

Ingrid uploaded? That seems... extreme.

There has to be more behind it than just wanting to be with Nathan. She was either sent to "spy" on him in some way, or she was killed, or she is hiding from whoever killed him/the people she was protecting him from by "owning" virtual him. 

[shantown]

I finished this show and while I liked it, I have SO. MANY. questions. Partly because I don't think this show ever really decided what it wanted to be. Futuristic half-hour comedy with bits of heart? Sci-fi concept with a romantic mystery? Quirky relationships drama with an undead twist? With only ten 20ish-minute episodes it seems like they just tried to cram too much into this first season. It doesn't help that pretty much every character in Lakeview was a sucky person, but there wasn't really time to either develop them more or get into any "only jerks pay for VIP heaven" commentary. I want to see more only because I'm hoping there's an explanation for so many things like introduced in season 1 that didn't get any follow-through.

Also, I hope there is some sort of justice for Cousin Fran, who only got about 3 total minutes of screentime but was my favorite character.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

This was a fun show to binge during quarantine. I'm glad it already got renewed for S2 because I want to see more! 

I don't believe for one second that Ingrid uploaded herself because she loves Nathan sooooooo much and wants to be at Lake View with him already. 

I didn't mind the Nathan reveal but I feel like that was (1) a twist to a-ha people who thought Jamie was the villain all along and (2) an artificial obstacle to put in the way of Nora and Nathan being together. 

Nora doesn't seem to like Byron so I can't imagine their getaway going well. I'd be surprised if she manages to last more than a few days in a confined space with him.

[Mabinogia]

11 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I didn't mind the Nathan reveal but I feel like that was (1) a twist to a-ha people who thought Jamie was the villain all along and (2) an artificial obstacle to put in the way of Nora and Nathan being together. 

Maybe it's because I have watched all of Good Place multiple times and have bought into Michael's idea that it's never too late to change, but I think they are going for the notion that Nathan was kind of a jerk when he was alive, the pretty boy who got what he wanted, ladies adored him, he never had to really try. When he did face a struggle, he basically cheated (cheating his business partner for the money). Then he's Uploaded. He meets a person who believes in him. Nora makes him a better person because he wants to be who she thinks he is blah blah. 

And from Nora's POV she lives in a virtual virtual world, a world of internet hook ups, where she is basically designing people for their Uploads. So she designs Nathan as the perfect guy. She needed to see him as a flawed person who made a mistake in order to see him as a real person and not her virtual dream date. 

While I was surprised by the twist, I also felt it made complete sense with what I've seen of Nathan. I think it was a nice way to show he wasn't perfect and for Nora to finally accept that he is more complex (people are more complex) than his upload. 

I also kind of like that his not remembering made him the good person Nora fell for which made her want to help him recover the memories which made him less than the good person she thought he was. 

Whoever erased those memories could have some connection in Horizon (my money is on the guy who keeps trying to flirt with Nora, or the boss lady and I hope it's not Aleesha. I like her and Luke's battle of wits). 

[CinAZ]

I am really enjoying this show. I love Nora. Alesha and Luke are awesome.

I think Ingrid isn’t that smart.  She makes bad, impetuous decisions. She wants Nathan, so she will have him. I don’t think she actually thought anything through. If she is uploaded, I am wondering how she died. 
I am a little confused about the business Nathan had. I know he was building a free upload type place... but who would supply all the data and computer power needed to support that? We see how many people Lakeview has to run their VR afterlife, how would a free version support itself? Did they explain that at all?

How did Nora not know Nathan had so little data. If Nathan is a computer programmer, and seemingly caught on really fast using that stick thing Nora gave him, why didn’t he give himself more data?

it will be a long wait for season 2...

[bettername2come]

I was hoping Nathan was playing a prank on Nora when he didn't remember her. I'm glad he was lying and that they didn't drag out that reveal and I can see why she would have doubts. I'd prefer if Nathan had stated that he was trying to protect Nora because he no longer thought he was good enough for her after seeing his memories rather than just him being embarrassed. 

It was very satisfying to see Alisha kick that guy in the balls. 

Creepy guy grabbing the whisk instead of the knife was funny. Nice foreshadowing with her having the garden thing hanging from her window and the reasons you should take the stairs. 

On 5/5/2020 at 2:11 PM, jcin617 said:

(I mean, coming from IT - how would they manage a disaster recovery scenario?  An accidental deletion?  etc.)

Hmm, good point. On the other hand, I think of all the times Black Mirror has used the "make a copy of a person's consciousness" plot for nefarious purposes and I can see the copying of a person's mind as having ethical issues similar to human cloning for this world. 

On 5/8/2020 at 9:49 AM, dovegrey said:

I think Nathan stumbled on a way to download Uploads into clones. That's big enough to explain the scope of the conspiracy to keep Nathan quiet.

I think that makes sense. If people go back to a human life, they're not paying in perpetuity for Upload service. I can see Horizen wanting to keep that secret, especially since they made a big global spectacle of the download going wrong. 

[shrewd.buddha]

It was fun as a wacky, dark rom-com, but it did not do well with the sharp turn into violent action adventure, along with Nathan becoming a hacker extraordinaire. 
How did the murder of Fran Booth never come up? Her death was pretty public - Nathan should have heard about it. 

This first season was entertaining and mostly engaging .. but the idea of dragging out the status of Nathan and Nora's relationship is not appealing. 
(And having an 'uploaded' BFF might be nice, but why would anyone encourage an actual romantic relationship between the living and the dead?)

Edited May 26, 2020 by shrewd.buddha

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, shrewd.buddha said:

How did the murder of Fran Booth never come up? Her death was pretty public - Nathan should have heard about it. 

Was it though, where in the TV series did anybody realize Fran Booth was dead? I just figured somebody programmed the car not to exist anymore and nobody noticed that Fran Booth was gone with it.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Was it though, where in the TV series did anybody realize Fran Booth was dead? I just figured somebody programmed the car not to exist anymore and nobody noticed that Fran Booth was gone with it.

In the sleepover episode Nathan’s niece tells him that Fran is missing. Nora made the connection between Fran and the guy she was meeting so someone may figure out she was murdered eventually. 
 

There were people who should have seen her car go over so I expect it to come back up in season 2 one way or another. 

[BoogieBurns]

On 5/17/2020 at 9:43 PM, Lola82 said:

I really enjoyed some of the side characters in this show mostly because of the actors that portrayed them - the AI butler made me laugh in every episode even though he usually has 1 line. 

The concierge/butler/waiter/etc is Greg Daniels' son Owen (Greg runs this show). He acted in a few episodes of The Office as David Wallace's school aged son, so it was quite a leap to see him here as a grown man. He even wrote one of the 10 episodes of this show, but I already forgot which one.

[Lola82]

17 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

The concierge/butler/waiter/etc is Greg Daniels' son Owen (Greg runs this show). He acted in a few episodes of The Office as David Wallace's school aged son, so it was quite a leap to see him here as a grown man. He even wrote one of the 10 episodes of this show, but I already forgot which one.

You just blew my mind. That’s the Suck It drummer kid?! 

[blackwing]

I enjoyed this series overall but this episode was a downer.  Nathan realises that he wants to be with Nora, breaks up with Ingrid and downgrades himself to 2 gig.  She and he find out that he was a jerk and the shady business guy all along. 

Ingrid shows up, puts a few bytes onto his account, enough to tell him she uploaded.  He greys out until the first of the month.

So what's the plan for next season?  Ingrid and Nora fighting over Nathan?  I did like the twist this season of trying to figure out who murdered Nathan.  Are we to assume it was Ingrid's dad?  He pretty much admitted it, right?  Did he also have Fran killed?  Was he the one deleting Nathan's memories?

[shantown]

6 hours ago, blackwing said:

So what's the plan for next season?  Ingrid and Nora fighting over Nathan?  I did like the twist this season of trying to figure out who murdered Nathan.

I really hope this show chooses to settle the triangle quickly and amicably, and focuses on Ingrid/Nora teaming up to figure out who killed Nathan. I don't really care if Nathan is out of gigs for certain amounts of time (to up the drama and the franticness of Ingrid/Nora trying to solve the case) or not.

Making Ingrid more of a 3-dimensional character rather than "rich snotty girlfriend" would serve this show well.

[BoogieBurns]

On 5/26/2020 at 8:59 PM, Lola82 said:

You just blew my mind. That’s the Suck It drummer kid?! 

SUCK IT! Yes, I went to look it up because I knew the Suck It kid was Greg's son.

[Accidental Martyr]

On 5/10/2020 at 10:35 AM, AuntiePam said:Good question, on how that magical icon allowed Nathan to control anything in the real world, let alone make an elevator do what that elevator did.  An elevator might move down that fast, but not up.  At least I don't think it could. 

How was Nora able to bring that device from the “real” world and give it to Nathan in the “digital” world?

[xaxat]

On 5/5/2020 at 2:11 PM, jcin617 said:

My biggest head-scratcher was the fact there's only one instance of "you" that moves around on a hard drive.   You're talking about people's digital souls - you think they'd back that up.  (I mean, coming from IT - how would they manage a disaster recovery scenario?  An accidental deletion?  etc.)

This is a really interesting question. The concept of the show is that "you" are uploaded. Your thoughts, memories etc. This is your identity.

So wouldn't a backup be another distinct identity? Identical to "you" but having a separate existence?

 

[calliope1975]

I'm wondering if the recovered memory is even real. Dad said the gloves were off and if you can code Horizen, couldn't you code a memory. Or, that there was a scene after that where whatever large number he asked for is rejected. Anyhoo, I really liked this show. It had a lot of great ideas; maybe could have done more with the execution, but I'll be watching whenever (oh Covid!) it returns.