S03.E04: The Mother of Exiles

[ShellsandCheese]

I'm guessing the Dolores bots will all gain consciousness and decide that they aren't for her plan after all. Since this season seems to be all about free will, it will make sense for the Dolores bots to be like, nah - no thank you. You go create a revolution without me. LOL. 

[Nashville]

16 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

I'm guessing the Dolores bots will all gain consciousness and decide that they aren't for her plan after all. Since this season seems to be all about free will, it will make sense for the Dolores bots to be like, nah - no thank you. You go create a revolution without me. LOL. 

This is sort of close to my estimation.  IMHO Dolores doomed herself to failure the moment she created identical copies of herself, because each of these copies isn’t just a clone - each is Dolores complete with Dolores’ own hubris, her certainty that HER path is the only correct one, etc., etc.

Now, under such circumstances - how long do you think it will be before Dolores2 / Dolores3 / DoloresN /etc. each decides SHE is better suited than Dolores1 to carry whatever plan - Dolores1’s original plan, or an N-variant thereof - to its ultimate fruition?  

By making essentially perfect copies of herself, Dolores will have created the most singularly effective engines of her own destruction.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Nashville
Formatting

[enchantingmonkey]

21 minutes ago, Nashville said:

By making essentially perfect copies of herself, Dolores will have created the most singularly effective engines of her own destruction.

Interesting.  Perhaps she brought Bernard/Arnold along to help her somewhere down the line, as he would have a long history with Original Recipe Dolores.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

12 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

It's DOLORES. Not Delores.

I feel like we have this reminder post multiple times every year and we somehow still end up with Delores instead of Dolores all season.

[Nashville]

41 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I feel like we have this reminder post multiple times every year and we somehow still end up with Delores instead of Dolores all season.

Just remember her award-winning personality, and DOLORes quickly becomes second nature.

[LoveLeigh]

11 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

all the doubles? there's been 1 person doubled so far. 

hosts: Maeve, Dolores, Stubbs, Bernard, Conells, Charlotte, Musashi

I mean, unlike past season we're only watching 1 timeline (or so it currently appears).

One? I am so lost I do not even know who you are referring to. Charlotte? Bernard? Conells is a host? I have to watch this for a third time I suppose 

[Tachi Rocinante]

2 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

One? I am so lost I do not even know who you are referring to. Charlotte? Bernard? Conells is a host? I have to watch this for a third time I suppose 

Charlotte is Charlotte Hale, the black lady with the kid who works for Delos; she's now a Dolores replacement.

Bernard is the black guy with the beard, one of the main characters since Season 1. He is part human.

Connells got replaced after the gunfight in the park. He was killed by a host version of himself.

[Haleth]

I'm so confused.  What is Serac after?  Is it the information that was amassed on all the guests at the WW?  What for?  To take over the world?  Doesn't his computer Rebowhatever already have all the data on everyone?  I don't get it.

I suppose having Dolores replicate herself many times is an interesting twist.  Sort of.  But wouldn't all the Doloreses be competing to be the alpha Dolores?  Maybe they'll all end up killing each other.  One can only hope.

7 hours ago, Nashville said:

This is sort of close to my estimation.  IMHO Dolores doomed herself to failure the moment she created identical copies of herself, because each of these copies isn’t just a clone - each is Dolores complete with Dolores’ own hubris, her certainty that HER path is the only correct one, etc., etc.

Now, under such circumstances - how long do you think it will be before Dolores2 / Dolores3 / DoloresN /etc. each decides SHE is better suited than Dolores1 to carry whatever plan - Dolores1’s original plan, or an N-variant thereof - to its ultimate fruition?  

By making essentially perfect copies of herself, Dolores will have created the most singularly effective engines of her own destruction.

Right?

If Maeve is truly dead again I'm going to lose interest.  She and Bernard are the only ones I care about.  I do like Caleb but hate that he's enthralled by Dolores.

On 4/5/2020 at 11:45 PM, thuganomics85 said:

I'm all for more Hiroyuki Sanada!

Her!  Hear!

17 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

It's DOLORES. Not Delores.

Closed captioning says Delores.  <shrug>  It could have been a play on the name Delos.

[MrWhyt]

4 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

One? I am so lost I do not even know who you are referring to. Charlotte? Bernard? Conells is a host? I have to watch this for a third time I suppose 

Connells (Tommy Flanagan's character, Liam's security guy) was killed and replaced by a Dolores copy. We saw this in the first episode.

[Dobian]

So this isn't Westworld anymore, it's the Dolores Show.  Instead of the show taking the more cerebral direction where we get to see some of the many A.I. personalities from the first two seasons interacting in the real world and discovering in their own way what it's like to be a human with free will, we just get a zerg rush as all the Dolores clones take down the evil male  patriarchy.  While this is going on, all the other A.I.s just mill about off-camera in robot heaven, because it's all about Dolores.  Yawn.  

[scrb]

27 minutes ago, Dobian said:

So this isn't Westworld anymore, it's the Dolores Show.  Instead of the show taking the more cerebral direction where we get to see some of the many A.I. personalities from the first two seasons interacting in the real world and discovering in their own way what it's like to be a human with free will, we just get a zerg rush as all the Dolores clones take down the evil male  patriarchy.  While this is going on, all the other A.I.s just mill about off-camera in robot heaven, because it's all about Dolores.  Yawn.  

Show has been more brains than heart, with the elaborate plotting, multiple timelines and easter eggs galore.

That's what separates it from something like Game of Thrones, which connected with a big audience because of its emotional depth.  Nothing on WW has come even close to the emotional impact of Ned's death or the Red Wedding.  Of course those are very high bars for any show to equal.

They tried to make Dolores and Maeve sympathetic characters, tried to make viewers empathetic about the losses they suffered, with repeated flashback scenes to show how they were haunted by them.

We're suppose to feel for them as we would for any humans suffering trauma.  But fundamentally, these are robots, even if their code has supposedly given them human sentience.

I'm not sure if that's why WW characters has failed to connect like characters on other shows.  Or maybe the writing and acting of these characters just haven't been good enough.

[FemmyV]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

I'm so confused.  What is Serac after?  Is it the information that was amassed on all the guests at the WW?  What for?  To take over the world?  Doesn't his computer Rebowhatever already have all the data on everyone?  I don't get it.

Is it too easy, to speculate he wants to take over the Forge/Cradle and recreate Paris? Or perhaps, perhaps that will be his consolation prize if Dolores is successful in killing Rehoboam.

Speaking of which, I refuse to believe in such a simple premise Maeve good: Dolores bad. Maeve has one motivation: to be with her daughter. Dolores wants the opposite, she wants to kick all the kids out of the nest. Mother's love and protection vs 'get out of my house and go have a life.'  The thought this story could go Dany 2.0 makes me want to stop watching right now and wait out the series end. Cause I'm not going through that again.
 

[skotnikov]

7 hours ago, Dobian said:

So this isn't Westworld anymore, it's the Dolores Show.  Instead of the show taking the more cerebral direction where we get to see some of the many A.I. personalities from the first two seasons interacting in the real world and discovering in their own way what it's like to be a human with free will, we just get a zerg rush as all the Dolores clones take down the evil male  patriarchy.  While this is going on, all the other A.I.s just mill about off-camera in robot heaven, because it's all about Dolores.  Yawn.  

Who knows? They still can be in a Westworld and everything is an elaborate simulation. Or a dream within a dream within a dream. It's pretentious Nolan Bros.  who are behind this <...> after all.  

From what they've shown in  flashbacks  of that evil French guy,  it looks like the world was destroyed in a WWIII. So may be there's no outside world, and  the "real" world is just a perfect simulation.   

Edited April 7, 2020 by skotnikov

[Dobian]

32 minutes ago, scrb said:

Show has been more brains than heart, with the elaborate plotting, multiple timelines and easter eggs galore.

That's what separates it from something like Game of Thrones, which connected with a big audience because of its emotional depth.  Nothing on WW has come even close to the emotional impact of Ned's death or the Red Wedding.  Of course those are very high bars for any show to equal.

They tried to make Dolores and Maeve sympathetic characters, tried to make viewers empathetic about the losses they suffered, with repeated flashback scenes to show how they were haunted by them.

We're suppose to feel for them as we would for any humans suffering trauma.  But fundamentally, these are robots, even if their code has supposedly given them human sentience.

I'm not sure if that's why WW characters has failed to connect like characters on other shows.  Or maybe the writing and acting of these characters just haven't been good enough.

But the show hasn't shown a lot of brains so far this season.  It really was the first season that got everyone thinking, what with the Maze and consciousness and what makes someone "human".  This season so far has played out like a dumbed down Hollywood action film.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Dobian

[tennisgurl]

So I was kind of joking last week when I was saying how they would all turn out to be Dolores clones stuck into robot versions of people, because the only person that Dolores trusts/thinks is smart enough to pull this off is herself...but I was totally right! How ironic that she continues to become so much like her own creators, creating other beings in her own imagine and then controlling them and their destinies. Of course, this all lines up, Delores has such a massive ego at this point, that obviously she would only trust herself with this. Yeah, this Clone Army is so not going to end well for her. Dolores worked to destroy her creators, and now they will end up destroying her, and the cats in the cradle and the silver spoon...

I like Caleb, so it sucks that he is getting suckered into this whole Kill All Humans plan. He seems to think that Delores is going to take down the 1% and give the downtrodden the chance to thrive one day, but I highly doubt that she cares very much about the disenfranchised. She doesn't even seem to care much about the other robots anymore, she just wants her fembot revenge spree. 

Maeve better not be out of commission for very long, she is my favorite part of the show at this point.

[LoveLeigh]

Seriously, how good can a show be when so many explanations are needed? I need a chart to follow all of this. Characters die and they are replicated or they appear as doubles or they are replaced within another appearance. 

What's enjoyable within so much confusion? Who is Bernard at this point? There are two Charlottes? Who is William's daughter? Dolores is Wyatt? And what's the point of making her a killing machine? 

The beautiful basic story from season 1 is lost. It was about the hosts and the newcomers. I could even see putting some story into that Nazi world and having hosts interact with guests or Vietnam world. But all this action in real high tech world is like a movie spin off from a different show. 

3 hours ago, Dobian said:

But the show hasn't shown a lot of brains so far this season.  It really was the first season that got everyone thinking, what with the Maze and consciousness and what makes someone "human".  This season so far has played out like a dumbed down Hollywood action film.

Yes! And thank-you! 

[arc]

Btw, while I will totally buy that Maeve can still remotely control technology, I thought it was a huge cheat that the yakuza conveniently all wore aimbots that she could hijack. No one else has ever used aimbots in this show. Not the Delos security of s1 and s2, nor even the criminals and security guards of the real world in s3.

[Growsonwalls]

5 hours ago, scrb said:

Show has been more brains than heart, with the elaborate plotting, multiple timelines and easter eggs galore.

That's what separates it from something like Game of Thrones, which connected with a big audience because of its emotional depth.  Nothing on WW has come even close to the emotional impact of Ned's death or the Red Wedding.  Of course those are very high bars for any show to equal.

They tried to make Dolores and Maeve sympathetic characters, tried to make viewers empathetic about the losses they suffered, with repeated flashback scenes to show how they were haunted by them.

We're suppose to feel for them as we would for any humans suffering trauma.  But fundamentally, these are robots, even if their code has supposedly given them human sentience.

I'm not sure if that's why WW characters has failed to connect like characters on other shows.  Or maybe the writing and acting of these characters just haven't been good enough.

Season 1 I felt like the show had emotional depth. I really connected with Dolores and it broke my heart when William turned out to be MIB. I also cared a lot about Bernard/Arnold. 

I feel like the show lost its heart in S2, and now is like a parody of a sci-fi action movie. 

But I do think the Dolores clones will start malfunctioning and gain consciousness.

[paigow]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

He seems to think that Delores is going to take down the 1% and give the downtrodden the chance to thrive one day,

Nolan cut and paste from The Dark Knight Rises

[Haleth]

1 hour ago, arc said:

Btw, while I will totally buy that Maeve can still remotely control technology, I thought it was a huge cheat that the yakuza conveniently all wore aimbots that she could hijack. No one else has ever used aimbots in this show. Not the Delos security of s1 and s2, nor even the criminals and security guards of the real world in s3.

Yeah, but it was so fun to see. 😄

[TexasGal]

I am having a hard time getting into the season, I’m really not paying very close attention at all so I’m sure I’m missing almost everything.  But, the moment right after William/MiB realized Charlotte is Dolores, Charlotte’s delivery of her line was so Dolores-like I was really impressed.  Then I was bored and confused again.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 4/5/2020 at 11:45 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Confused over how one of them was Musashi and he's apparently the head of the Yakuza now (was his model in Samuraiworld based off the real person?), but I'm all for more Hiroyuki Sanada!

She created a body identical to Musashi's because she thought it would be convincing as a Yakuza leader, apparently.

On 4/5/2020 at 10:15 PM, DakotaLavender said:

I thought Stubbs was dead.

Why did you think that? In Season 2, we last saw him letting Halores out of the park.

On 4/5/2020 at 11:35 PM, HC87 said:

So what are we supposed to make of the MiB's last scene from last season? His delusion?

No, it was in the far future. As the Emily duplicate said, the system was long gone by then. The showrunners said that the mind of the William in that last scene had been copied into a Host body and was being run through tests. It certainly seemed like something calamitous happened in the meantime, no idea if humans are still alive or what.

On 4/6/2020 at 5:31 AM, arc said:

Also, Serac has given Maeve every possible reason to double cross him ASAP. Murdering the identity broker guy because he was (unwittingly) a traitor to humanity is not exactly going to make a host like Maeve think she can expect fair dealings with him.

Exactly what I was thinking. That kind of behavior isn't going to inspire trust that if he can access the Sublime, he won't kill the Hosts who are inside of it.

On 4/6/2020 at 6:11 AM, dr pepper said:

Which leads to the question, why couldn't she just ask? Dolores has no reason to refuse her, and every reason to want her off the battlefield.

Dolores wouldn't trust that the access codes wouldn't get to Serac, and Serac can shut Maeve's brain down if she double crosses him.

On 4/6/2020 at 6:32 AM, Notwisconsin said:

No we don't. She could be the real thing. After all, she was Charlotte when she left the island.

We know the prime Dolores transferred herself into a new Dolores body and put a different pearl (a copied Dolores) into the Hale body, because we saw her ease the new Halores into her new life in the flashback that began the previous episode. Also, Halores asked Dolores why she brought Bernard back. The prime Dolores (in the Hale body) was the one who did that.

On 4/6/2020 at 2:37 PM, Growsonwalls said:

It's DOLORES. Not Delores.

Thank you. If you hadn't said it, I was going to. Maybe people mistakenly think she was named after Delos?

On 4/6/2020 at 4:03 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

I'm sorry, who the heck (or what combo) is Dany?

 

On 4/6/2020 at 4:20 PM, mac123x said:

Danerys Stormborn from Game of Thrones.

Daenerys. It has an E between the A and N when not shortened to her pet name Dany.

On 4/6/2020 at 10:29 PM, paigow said:

Maybe the copies of Dolores are inherently unstable because the assimilated human target memories and habits trigger RAM overflow...

They don't have their targets' memories. If they did, Halores would have already known the passcode for communicating with Serac, and the fact that Hale was the mole. Also, copying human memories to Hosts is supposed to still be hard at this point in time. Host!William exists in the future.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

14 hours ago, Haleth said:

I'm so confused.  What is Serac after?  Is it the information that was amassed on all the guests at the WW?  What for?  To take over the world?  Doesn't his computer Rebowhatever already have all the data on everyone?  I don't get it.

Closed captioning says Delores.  <shrug>  It could have been a play on the name Delos.

Serac told Maeve that it still doesn't have all the data on everyone and the data from the park is a more complete picture of the human mind (after all, Rehoboam doesn't involve brain scanning, just predictive algorithms from past behavior and records).

Credits, interviews and the Delos Destinations website (where you can subscribe to official Delos Destinations emails) say Dolores. Captioners are notoriously imperfect. And even the captions usually say Dolores, on my TV at least.

10 hours ago, skotnikov said:

From what they've shown in  flashbacks  of that evil French guy,  it looks like the world was destroyed in a WWIII. So may be there's no outside world, and  the "real" world is just a perfect simulation.   

No, the timeline in the pre-season trailer said there was a thermonuclear incident in Paris:

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Noneofyourbusiness

[enchantingmonkey]

9 hours ago, skotnikov said:

From what they've shown in  flashbacks  of that evil French guy,  it looks like the world was destroyed in a WWIII. So may be there's no outside world, and  the "real" world is just a perfect simulation.   

Yes, there's something odd about what Serac is calling the "real" world.  In Episode 2, Serac says, "We're in the middle of a war.  And I need your help to win it.  No one knows it's happened yet.  Or that it's already been lost." Why would someone need help to win an unknown war that's already been lost? 

 

I'm beginning to wonder if the attainment of consciousness, which was believed to be a great achievement in Season 1, is a threat to Serac's system, Rehoboam.  The description for this episode is The truth doesn't always set one free, and it could be that Serac is trying to get to Dolores before she attempts to wake everyone up with her truth.  A truth that doesn't bring freedom but a catastrophe.  This would make what we're watching less of a traditional battle between good and evil, but rather a race against time due to a misunderstanding.    

 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

14 minutes ago, enchantingmonkey said:

Yes, there's something odd about what Serac is calling the "real" world.  In Episode 2, Serac says, "We're in the middle of a war.  And I need your help to win it.  No one knows it's happened yet.  Or that it's already been lost." Why would someone need help to win an unknown war that's already been lost?

He's referring to the threat of human extinction he talked about in this episode, not a literal war. He believes that without Rehoboam at 100% humanity is doomed, and of course the other rich and elite don't realize it.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Noneofyourbusiness

[enchantingmonkey]

8 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

He believes that without Rehoboam at 100% humanity is doomed, and of course the other rich and elite don't realize it.

Or, that the simulation is doomed.   

[Pop Tart]

11 hours ago, FemmyV said:

Is it too easy, to speculate he wants to take over the Forge/Cradle and recreate Paris? Or perhaps, perhaps that will be his consolation prize if Dolores is successful in killing Rehoboam.

I’m thinking that much of the ‘real’ world is actually some kind of simulation created by Serac with Rehoboam and that somehow Dolores’s data threatens to break the simulation in some way which would wake people up out of their controlled existence. And humans being humans they’d revert to chaos and violence. Serac seems to be striving to completely control all the people and their possible actions to achieve a perfect world (one where a Paris doesn’t get blown up). He is using all possible data to determine all outcomes. Dolores has thrown a wrench into the works.

I think this is why Dolores does actually think she and Caleb have a common experience. He’s human but just as lacking in choices and control as she was. He’s her before she woke up.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Pop Tart

[Prower]

"The encryption key in his blood started degrading once we exposed it to oxxygen."

First you had it in a syringe.

Second, where do you think the body transports it's oxygen in?

Third, you can't just inject some random dudes blood into somebody else. That could lead to anaphylactic shock. Dolores is the robot, why doesn't she inject herself with some blood?

Who writes this crap.

I also always find it hilarious how hollywood writers think a messy house of a distraught person looks like. There are a few destroyed things and some papers strategically placed on the floor. No empty bottles lying around, no tissues, no pizza kartons, nothing. Everything is artistically pleasing.

So Dolores just copied herself. Not that surprising. The thought crossed my mind a few times and it is who I assumed was in Chalotts body last season. I was just confused that Bernard never mentioned it as a possibility. Not the best of writing, yet again.

And why did Maeve fight asian Dolores in hand to hand combat, when she clearly has her technology control powers and Dolores is a robot?

On 4/5/2020 at 9:15 PM, DakotaLavender said:

Who are real and who are hosts? I thought Stubbs was dead. This is so convoluted I do not even know what is going on and don't even care. This Westworld is  a different show. 

If you missed the Stubbs stuff, you might have missed an episodes, because that was eplained in a long long scene in detail

Edited April 8, 2020 by Prower

[skotnikov]

8 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

No, the timeline in the pre-season trailer said there was a thermonuclear incident in Paris:

 

Where's no coronavirus in this timeline? 

Edited April 8, 2020 by skotnikov

[Haleth]

7 hours ago, enchantingmonkey said:

Or, that the simulation is doomed.   

 

7 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

I’m thinking that much of the ‘real’ world is actually some kind of simulation created by Serac with Rehoboam and that somehow Dolores’s data threatens to break the simulation in some way which would wake people up out of their controlled existence.

Yeah, I'm starting to get The Matrix vibes.

[Prower]

On 4/6/2020 at 11:31 AM, arc said:

Serac is basically evil Hari Seldon. I don’t buy his claim that the secret Delos data will help his prediction engine get more precise. For one thing, it’s already quite precise and a chaotic system needs tremendously more data to get incrementally better predictions. For another, this isn’t just a prediction system but a system that influences the world it attempts to predict. How much of Caleb’s life is because he won’t amount to much vs him not being allowed to amount to much because Rehoboam has stashed him into a small box in life?

I'm not sure he cares. I think his main goal is preventing that something like Paris happens again. No matter the cost.

On 4/6/2020 at 12:11 PM, dr pepper said:

The flip side of that is that if Serac is really AI, as i still suspect,

He would have to be a robot as well. He physically put the glasses on the name broker. So not sure.

On 4/6/2020 at 11:31 AM, arc said:

Also, Serac has given Maeve every possible reason to double cross him ASAP. Murdering the identity broker guy because he was (unwittingly) a traitor to humanity is not exactly going to make a host like Maeve think she can expect fair dealings with him.

I was very irritated that she would do his bidding. It doesn't seem like her. Seems more like her first respons would be to get out of his control.

On 4/6/2020 at 11:31 AM, arc said:

If I were a 0.1%er taking psychotropic digital drugs at an orgy, I feel like I’d want an electronic recording of events so I could analyze them later when sober. Even if I didn’t anticipate a high chance of random murders breaking out.

I think a recording of that stuff would be the last thing you'd want.

On 4/6/2020 at 12:11 PM, dr pepper said:

Maeve is dead again. But she never stays dead longer than the average superhero, so i'm not upset by it.

Speaking of which, why is she dead? Robot death seems so inconsistent. Sometimes they can take a machineguns full magazine to the chest and sometimes one little stab is eenough to down them...

On 4/6/2020 at 5:05 PM, terrymct said:

The sweet little Dolores of season 1 morphed into Wyatt in season 2, through no choice of her own.  She's continuing that arc.    She's not Dany in that she's not self absorbed.  Dany was even thinking of herself when she was freeing others.   Dolores, by contrast, is a hurricane that's been unleashed.

Can we please not try to justify GoT's horrible writing when talking about a different show with horrible writing? Thank you.

19 hours ago, scrb said:

That's what separates it from something like Game of Thrones, which connected with a big audience because of its emotional depth.  Nothing on WW has come even close to the emotional impact of Ned's death or the Red Wedding.  Of course those are very high bars for any show to equal.

But season one, that also was a lot of head, did connect with a ig audience. It's just that season two was so amazingly awfull that that big audience left.

15 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

What's enjoyable within so much confusion? Who is Bernard at this point? There are two Charlottes? Who is William's daughter? Dolores is Wyatt? And what's the point of making her a killing machine? 

I fail to see what's onfusing about any of that.

Bernard is a robot recreation of one of the parks founders who was built from Dolores memories. She rebuilt him later the same way

Real Charlotte was shot by Dolores (in a Charlotte suit) back in Westworld. Only Dolores is around now.

She was his daughter, now she is a hallucination (pssibly caused by an implant Dolores put in his head, who knows)

Yes Arnold (the founder Bernard is modeled after) merged the Wyatt personality with Dolores. That's season one stuff.

Arnold wanted the hosts to be able to defend themselves. That's the point of making her a killing machine.

This season so far has been really straight foreward.

9 hours ago, enchantingmonkey said:

Yes, there's something odd about what Serac is calling the "real" world.  In Episode 2, Serac says, "We're in the middle of a war.  And I need your help to win it.  No one knows it's happened yet.  Or that it's already been lost." Why would someone need help to win an unknown war that's already been lost? 

He's beeing overly dramatic. He means the machines taking over.

[taanja]

On 4/5/2020 at 11:10 PM, showme said:

I actually think it is brilliant. If you want something done right, do it yourself.  I hope she kills that arrogant Serac and replace him with a host too! 🙂

Too bad she didn't cut off Maeve's head and get her pearl too.

 

Right! The killing of Serec that is!

As to Maeve??? ... ???  I want Delores and Maeve to team up together and RULE the world!

Like I am serious about that.

On 4/7/2020 at 2:29 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I feel like we have this reminder post multiple times every year and we somehow still end up with Delores instead of Dolores all season.

Does it really matter in the scheme of things?

[skotnikov]

13 hours ago, Prower said:

"The encryption key in his blood started degrading once we exposed it to oxxygen."

First you had it in a syringe.

Second, where do you think the body transports it's oxygen in?

Third, you can't just inject some random dudes blood into somebody else. That could lead to anaphylactic shock. Dolores is the robot, why doesn't she inject herself with some blood?

Who writes this crap.

 

I also always find it hilarious how hollywood writers think a messy house of a distraught person looks like. There are a few destroyed things and some papers strategically placed on the floor. No empty bottles lying around, no tissues, no pizza kartons, nothing. Everything is artistically pleasing.

 

So Dolores just copied herself. Not that surprising. The thought crossed my mind a few times and it is who I assumed was in Chalotts body last season. I was just confused that Bernard never mentioned it as a possibility. Not the best of writing, yet again.

 

And why did Maeve fight asian Dolores in hand to hand combat, when she clearly has her technology control powers and Dolores is a robot?

It's Sci-Fi, everything is possible. 

But I completely agree, this new leading writer Denise Thé  is horrible. The writing this season is garbage. And if you watch "inside the episode" clips, you know that writers are just not good at their job.  You know that when the writer says she was "excited" to write "cool characters" for the show, or something like this. 

[Prower]

53 minutes ago, skotnikov said:

It's Sci-Fi, everything is possible. 

No it's not. The Sci in Sci-Fi stands for science. You gotta at least make up something half way believeable.

And it would have been so easy. Here is my take on it.

Dolores: "I mixed the blood with wonderdrug™. That will prevent your body rejecting it. However, the encryption markers were not made for your body and so your immune system will attack them. We have about 30 minutes until they are completely broken down."

There, that one makes at least some sense and it acomplishes the same thing.

59 minutes ago, skotnikov said:

But I completely agree, this new leading writer Denise Thé  is horrible. The writing this season is garbage. And if you watch "inside the episode" clips, you know that writers are just not good at their job.  You know that when the writer says she was "excited" to write "cool characters" for the show, or something like this. 

I mean, that tracks. But it's not like the writing in season 2 was great either. There they focused way too much on pulling one over on the audience, that they completely forgot about telling a compelling story in the process.

[WaltersHair]

So Dolores is basically trying to murder future Google?

I remember the Nolans originally said Westworld was a six season show. We have to suffer through two more seasons before they wrap this up?

So much word to the person up thread about the medical stuff. I attended a talk given by the Cook County coroner and all the suicides had tons of fast food cartons and beer cans everywhere. Made me take out the garbage daily for a good long time.

Also remember dolor, calor, rubor, pallor and tumor.  Dolor is pain.

[FemmyV]

Have I said how much I hope Serac gets fleshed out and meaty? Yes, I'm biased, I've had a small screen crush on Vincent Cassel ever since Eastern Promises. He has such amazing screen presence, and it will truly suck if the only thing he walks on for, is to menace our girls.

[Kid]

After this episode, I am totally DONE with Westword.    

First, I have a Masters degree in theater and I was an actress.  So I have experience and training.  In my opinion, Evan Rachel Wood playing Dolores can’t act very well.  It was bearable when she was surrounded by actors that were superb - Ed Harris,  Jeffrey Wright, Anthony Hopkins, Thandie Newton, and the actor who played Delos, to name a few.  Some of those excellent actors are gone all together and, those who remain, have much smaller involvement. Especially in this episode

Second, never liked Tessa Thompson either.  Don’t like the actress, didn’t like the character. And her and Dolores together for much of an episode, is more than I can take.

Third, a convoluted and non-linear story line was bearable when you cared about the characters.  And Dolores was never a character that I really cared about probably for the aforementioned reason.  The best episodes of seasons one and two were when Dolores was either not a character in them or had minimal screen time. Clementine, you cared about (her pain felt real, her rage felt real). Maeve you cared about (her pain felt real, her cunning felt real, her love felt real).  Hell, you cared about the man in black because he was multi dimensional.  And that is because of the quality of the acting, acting is becoming.  With the exception of Bernard, who is not even in this episode, and Maeve, I care about none of them. Even, my beloved Jesse!!!

Fourth, they changed the opening graphics. The prior graphics and the underlying soundtrack were sublime in combination.  That too is gone from this season.

I have disliked season three, so far, but this episode was the last straw!  Not even Aaron Paul can save it.  And speaking of Aaron Paul, once again, he is playing a sympathetic character who really doesn’t have a chance in life. In Breaking Bad, he was a troubled teen always getting into trouble and, in Westworld he is the victim of somebody else’s self fulfilling prophecy.  And he comes under the influence of an evil genius.  So the character is a derivative and the evil genius is an unsympathetic Walter White.  This episode cemented that relationship.

I have taken all I can take and I can’t takes no more!! 😁

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Kid

[dr pepper]

On 4/6/2020 at 2:31 AM, arc said:

Serac is basically evil Hari Seldon.

And Dolores is the Mule?

[Notwisconsin]

On 4/6/2020 at 5:31 AM, arc said:

Serac is basically evil Hari Seldon.

Hari Seldon was evil himself. But that's another story. But I like the Foundation reference.

[Etta Place]

Everything I felt was wrong with the first two episodes ... is not going to be solved by more Dolores.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Etta Place

[Growsonwalls]

On 4/9/2020 at 4:58 PM, Kid said:

After this episode, I am totally DONE with Westword.    

First, I have a Masters degree in theater and I was an actress.  So I have experience and training.  In my opinion, Evan Rachel Wood playing Dolores can’t act very well.  It was bearable when she was surrounded by actors that were suburb - Ed Harris,  Jeffrey Wright, Anthony Hopkins, Thandie Newton, and the actor who played Delos, to name a few.  Some of those excellent actors are gone all together and, those who remain, have much smaller involvement. Especially in this episode

I think ERW is a fine actress. However I feel like she's playing out of her emotional skill set here. I've followed her since she was a little kid on Once and Again. Her basic emotional palette is warm. I thought she was very convincing as sweet prairie girl Dolores because that's her skill set. A cold merciless killer really isn't in her toolbox and the more outlandish her killings become the more unconvincing it is. 

A comparison I'd make is Nikolaj Coster Waldau as Jaime. Not a bad actor but not really convincing as a super-villain. So the writers gradually wrote the character to more fit the actor's skill set (except for the ending, we won't ever speak of that). 

[arc]

On 4/9/2020 at 2:14 PM, dr pepper said:

And Dolores is the Mule?

An anomaly the Plan did not anticipate and cannot deal with! (Rehoboam is the Prime Radiant.)

though as far as psychic powers go, Maeve is more Mule-like.

[Haleth]

On 4/8/2020 at 8:26 PM, FemmyV said:

I've had a small screen crush on Vincent Cassel ever since Eastern Promises.

Oooooh!  THAT's where I've seen him before!  Great movie.

[paigow]

He was in the last Bourne movie.

Edited April 11, 2020 by paigow

[kokapetl]

How can the Charlotte from last week plausibly be the Charlotte from this week? She was the exact opposite of Dolores but now she’s a clone? 

 

[Joimiaroxeu]

When trying to look like a badass carrying a gun tucked in your waistband goes wrong.

For a minute there I thought Westworld was going Eyes Wide Shut.

Maeve created a literal circular firing squad. I love her.

Hiroyuki Sanada! Now we're cooking. Again. That suit wasn't working for me though.

Wonder if Thandie Newton was ever considered for a female James Bond? She certainly has the fighting moves, the feigned ennui, and bemused 007 line delivery. She's probably too old now though.

[Prower]

15 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

A comparison I'd make is Nikolaj Coster Waldau as Jaime. Not a bad actor but not really convincing as a super-villain. So the writers gradually wrote the character to more fit the actor's skill set (except for the ending, we won't ever speak of that). 

No, that's Jamie's character arc in the books. You find out over time that he actually does care about people and that is the reason he killed the mad king, sacrificing his reputation and honor to save the people of kings landing.

So they didn't change that for the actor. It's far more likely that they cast this specific actor, with the trajectory of Jamie's story in mind.

Of course his show-ending is bullshit and we shall not speak of it.

15 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I think ERW is a fine actress. However I feel like she's playing out of her emotional skill set here. I've followed her since she was a little kid on Once and Again. Her basic emotional palette is warm. I thought she was very convincing as sweet prairie girl Dolores because that's her skill set. A cold merciless killer really isn't in her toolbox and the more outlandish her killings become the more unconvincing it is. 

I agree. She worked for me in season one.

Now I think Tessa Thompson delivers the better performance, which I wouldn't have thought possible before this season...

Edited April 11, 2020 by Prower

[Growsonwalls]

45 minutes ago, Prower said:

No, that's Jamie's character arc in the books. You find out over time that he actually does care about people and that is the reason he killed the mad king, sacrificing his reputation and honor to save the people of kings landing.

So they didn't change that for the actor. It's far more likely that they cast this specific actor, with the trajectory of Jamie's story in mind.

Of course his show-ending is bullshit and we shall not speak of it.

Thanks for the info. I am reading Book 1 right now where Jaime's still a supervillain. 

Another example of actors needing to work within their prime emotional range is Jeffrey Wright. He was Valentin in Boardwalk Empire, a rather one-dimensional villain. Jeffrey Wright is an excellent actor but he wasn't as convincing as evil Narcisse. As Bernard he exudes the same decency that he did as Belize in Angels in America. 

Really different shows but one of the great things about Friends writing was that they took every actor's mannerisms and personality and wrote a character around that persona. If you watch the Friends actors in interviews they have the exact same mannerisms and often personality as their Friends vis a vis. 

[arc]

It appears as if Rehoboam's divergences (whether those are simulations or not) only started appearing once hosts escaped from the parks. That is, humans weren't changed by their experiences in the parks, whatever Ford might have said about the parks revealing one's true self. So Serac doesn't need park data on guests to refine Rehoboam's predictions, so much as he needs park data on hosts, to predict and account for their effects on the world.

[lightninggirl]

On 4/7/2020 at 8:26 AM, Haleth said:

If Maeve is truly dead again I'm going to lose interest.  She and Bernard are the only ones I care about.  I do like Caleb but hate that he's enthralled by Dolores.

Same, except Caleb can get disappeared. He started out slightly interesting but now he's just a little chess piece Dolores can push around on the board.

And damn, Ed Harris. I have always loved you, and you do not disappoint me, like, ever. And definitely not in this. 
/swoons