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S03:E10: All In


TexasGal
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On 3/29/2020 at 1:37 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

 

So next season it's going to be Darlene/Ruth/the Kansas City mob against Navarro/The Byrds. If there is a next season. I hope so.

 

On 4/4/2020 at 8:41 PM, Avaleigh said:

Great episode and a great season. Hope this gets renewed. 

 

I'm sure there will be a next season; at least one appears to be planned.  Might be a while though...

"...But a season four hasn't been officially confirmed yet...it likely would premiere sometime in mid-late 2021, if the coronavirus doesn't severely impact production."

Link:  

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/arts-and-culture/a32017702/ozark-season-4/

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Probably a 'me too' post here but I have to say it.

S3 is by far the best of the bunch.  The pacing was excellent and the twists were great.  

Both Jason and Laura were spectacular as Marty and Wendy.  The same goes for pretty much the rest of the cast.   Wendy's brother Ben was amazing playing a Bi-polar person off his meds and Helen was such a great anti-hero.  

If I have one critique it would be to dial back Ruth, just a little bit.  That's the only character that I struggle with.  Oh, and Darlene too.

Other than that it's almost perfect if we can suspend our disbelief long enough to ignore that none of this is even remotely possible.  And well, if you're ok with gravity on the Starship Enterprise, then you should be ok with this.  

That said, I won't pretend that I saw the ending coming.  I thought that the meeting in Mexico would end in a cliff hanger for S04.  Boy was I surprised.

Can't wait for S04!

 

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On 3/30/2020 at 12:05 AM, showme said:

Two questions:

1. Has Helen told Navarro about Marty's fictional confession yet? I think that makes a big difference. If she had, that means Navarro chose not to believe it. If she hadn't, the supposed confession will get leaked and causing issues for the Byrdes next season.

2. Why did Navarro decide to kill Helen? I don't quite see the motive behind it. Helen has been a loyal and capable "lawyer" for a long time, even if her desire to take over the management of the casino didn't win Navarro's favor, he could easily veto her and still use her in her previous role, why kill her?

 

I suspect Navarro ascertained between Helen’s call to him expressing doubts about the Byrdes and Wendy’s “request” regarding Helen, that the relationship between the two was irreparable. Therefore, he needed to take a side. I’m still not sure why he chose the Byrdes over Helen. Maybe we will learn more next season. Fingers crossed.

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Helen was trying to muscle the Byrdes out of Navarro's favor.  But she didn't recognize the degree to which Navarro's total reason for being is the money.  

Almost anyone who is trusted (like Ruth) can manage helping to launder the money and make deposits, but that's where their capabilities end.

Bottom line:  Marty knows how to run the bank accounts and clear up red flags.  There's no indication he has a back-up.  As soon as Navarro saw Marty clear those red flags so quickly, Marty became Navarro's golden boy.

 

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I don't know if the show is so clear on how shrewd Navarro actually is. I do appreciate the subtlety of his scenes. You get something like - Wendy, don't expect favor for doing your fucking job - about killing the brother, and you know exactly who he is. 

Similarly, Marty also downplays his considerable skills because he's just dour and hates everything. He fixed the reg flag problem in like 90 seconds. 

Just being distant from the action in the Ozarks doesn't mean he wasn't aware of the state of play. 

22 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

Almost anyone who is trusted (like Ruth) can manage helping to launder the money and make deposits, but that's where their capabilities end.

I would give Ruth a little more credit in terms of managing the drops. Given she grew up there, she knows where to go and how to vary the locations. There were several times where the KC guys bitched about having to drive all over. Marty doesn't know the geography like her, and low level mobsters are typically lazy. There's something to be said for her vigilance. 

Getting nailed by the rival drug gang isn't her fault. 

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7 hours ago, laprin said:

I suspect Navarro ascertained between Helen’s call to him expressing doubts about the Byrdes and Wendy’s “request” regarding Helen, that the relationship between the two was irreparable. Therefore, he needed to take a side. I’m still not sure why he chose the Byrdes over Helen. Maybe we will learn more next season. Fingers crossed.

I think it's because the Byrdes had more to offer. Navarro has seen that there's stuff that only Marty can do. He also liked Wendy's ideas and saw that she was a long term thinker and planner. Collectively, Wendy and Marty are bringing more to the table than Helen was. Plus, Helen didn't seem to have the confidence that Navarro could win the war. 

Navarro will be able to get another lawyer who can play ball. Marty and Wendy aren't as replaceable. 

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I kind of saw Helen's end coming. Maybe not exactly as it played out, that took me by surprise like it was supposed to.  But once it was apparent that it was gearing up to be a Helen vs. Marty and Wendy situation, there could only be one outcome. They can't kill off Marty and Wendy, the show would be over.

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I can't stand characters like Darlene.  There is no reason that she wouldn't be dead already. 

I agree, she's too crazy to be this functional. She shouldn't actually be a threat to anyone, she's kind of a cartoon.

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You'd figure she would live quietly on her 1/3 casino share profits. But someone like that can't leave well enough alone, and there's no way Helen would have let her live after the husband died when she was fully prepared to do her before. 

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On 3/30/2020 at 8:40 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm assuming (hoping) that Ruth does her in to protect/save Marty. Even when she stormed out she told Marty she was grateful for all he'd done for her.

She thanked Marty for helping her, then said "But I'm not your daughter." I interpreted that to mean that she was having to choose sides and was choosing Wyatt's (and by extension Darlene's) side over Marty's. She may like and respect Marty, but he's not blood. Wyatt is. In this culture, that makes a big difference.

In addition, there was lingering resentment over the Frank Jr. beating. She was told she was "untouchable," then found out that wasn't actually the case.

On 3/31/2020 at 10:17 AM, PsychoDrone said:

She spiked the cartel's heroin shipment.  She cut Jonah's hair (big no-no messing with connected people's kids, ask Ben).  She manipulated getting custody of the preacher's kid.  And now she shot off the junk of the son of the head of the KC mob...Why would the KC mob go into business with her?  They can't let what she did go unanswered.  It's not a good look.  And, Ruth needs to get as far away from Darlene as possible.  Without Marty's protection, Jr will absolutely blame her for Darlene's actions.  The first episode of next season should be Darlene being killed in a very public way.  End of her Story.

That's how it should go, but it will be contrived to have Darlene stick around.

 

On 3/31/2020 at 1:44 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

Take Frank Jr out of it, why would Frank want to run afoul of a cartel? That's high powered resources. Of course, you want to find opportunities to make money, but he's a construction, union, trucking guy. Taking a cut of casino profits is rather low risk, so I'm not buying he thinks Darlene is a good investment. Unless he wants to stick it to Marty, which I don't see why he'd waste his time, or he's plotting to get Darlene.

Frank's son was castrated and maimed: a high-powered shotgun blast at close range to that part of the anatomy would not only take out your reproductive equipment, but also likely turn your bladder and lower intestine to hamburger, not to mention shatter your pelvis. If Frank Jr even survives this (and he'd be lucky not to bleed out longer before he reached a hospital), he'd be using a catheter and colostomy bag the rest of his life, assuming this is portrayed realistically.

Frank Sr. MUST kill Darlene in response or lose any credibility in his world.

Edited by Sir RaiderDuck OMS
Because the kidneys and bladder are not the same thing
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14 minutes ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Frank's son was castrated and maimed: a high-powered shotgun blast at close range to that part of the anatomy would not only take out your reproductive equipment, but also likely turn your kidneys and lower intestine to hamburger . . . 

I think you may have meant bladder.  Your kidneys are tucked up near the bottom of your rib cage in the back.

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56 minutes ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

In addition, there was lingering resentment over the Frank Jr. beating. She was told she was "untouchable," then found out that wasn't actually the case.

There's so many posts all over the place, but I had said somewhere that I was fine with that in the context of not needing Ben to initiating her leaving Marty. This was more than sufficient for me. Not so much that she found she wasn't untouchable, but that Marty and Wendy didn't really do enough for her in response. 

58 minutes ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Frank Sr. MUST kill Darlene in response or lose any credibility in his world.

It's just another Jon Snow plot armor bs device to keep her alive if he doesn't at least try. Not for nothing, Wendy needs to tell Navarro that Darlene needs to go, then they can tell Frank they intervened on his behalf to make nice to bury the hatchet and to *again* make Ruth untouchable for real. 

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Weird thought . . . 

Suppose the cops DO get a search warrant for the mausoleum.  Who do they present it to?  The company who runs the cemetery, or the "next of kin"?

Buddy didn't have a next of kin . . . just the people who paid for the mausoleum.  So would they serve it to Marty and Wendy?  That would make for a great scene, if one of them were walking up to make a cash withdrawal and were met by a police office with a search warrant.

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I think that Helen told Navarro that the Byrdes were going to testify against him. If you notice, right before Jonah came to threaten her, she was putting her copies of the confession into a folder and packing it to bring to Mexico. 

Someone --possibly the gay FBI agent, who well may be already "turned" --tipped Navarro that the document was false and Helen was setting up the Byrdes. This is why he had Helen neutralized right in front of the Byrdes--close enough for them to get covered with her blood. Navarro then hugged Marty and Wendy, transferring blood from the Byrdes to him, like a blood pact. It was eerie and symbolic. Helen paid for her underhanded attempt to steal Navarro's favor with her blood.

Edited by Suzywriter
Grammar police
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On 4/18/2020 at 11:51 PM, Suzywriter said:

I think that Helen told Navarro that the Byrdes were going to testify against him. If you notice, right before Jonah came to threaten her, she was putting her copies of the confession into a folder and packing it to bring to Mexico. 

Someone --possibly the gay FBI agent, who well may be already "turned" --tipped Navarro that the document was false and Helen was setting up the Byrdes. This is why he had Helen neutralized right in front of the Byrdes--close enough for them to get covered with her blood. Navarro then hugged Marty and Wendy, transferring blood from the Byrdes to him, like a blood pact. It was eerie and symbolic. Helen paid for her underhanded attempt to steal Navarro's favor with her blood.

I agree with the reason that Navarro shot Helen in front of the Byrds and the symbolism of the blood pact, but I find it hard to believe that the FBI agent who was so gung-ho to get Marty has been turned (and turned by whom?) What would make him turn, and why would he tip Navarro that Marty was going to testify? (I think the false confession was just to be signed by Marty--I didn't think that the FBI was requiring Wendy to testify.)

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Add me to those who don't understand why Helen had to be shot.  Because she thought the Byrde's were falling apart?  Navarro's the one who gave her permission to get into the financials...why didn't he just put his foot down to her and say, "I'm all-in with Marty and Wendy - do your job and they'll do theirs." 

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3 minutes ago, abc123 said:

Add me to those who don't understand why Helen had to be shot.  Because she thought the Byrde's were falling apart?  Navarro's the one who gave her permission to get into the financials...why didn't he just put his foot down to her and say, "I'm all-in with Marty and Wendy - do your job and they'll do theirs." 

Helen knew too much.  What we saw was Navarro's foolproof way to be sure she wasn't going to try to get the option the Byrdes were offered (witness protection in exchange for spilling all the beans).

When someone like Navarro wants to be sure you're not going to talk, his first option is to make sure you're not going to breathe.

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Hi. <waves> I'm the one over here obsessing about Wendy's S1 worry that Jonah could be like her brother. She might be right to worry. I don't think he's bipolar, but the boy is not OK. I know he's seen a lot of bad in his young life, but he's showing about as much restraint as Ben did when he was off his meds. He needs attention and some time around someone with some damn empathy, neither of which is going to happen in his near future. He didn't kill Helen, but he's going to kill someone. Chekhov's shotgun isn't going to gather any dust, I think. (I know a few posters have said they thought he was aiming at someone in his final scene; I saw someone screaming with pent-up rage and needing to shoot something, even if it was just a very big window.)

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12 hours ago, maystone said:

I know a few posters have said they thought he was aiming at someone in his final scene; I saw someone screaming with pent-up rage and needing to shoot something, even if it was just a very big window.

I think it's a combo of both. In that scene, I heard someone/something rustling outside and actually said out loud to the TV, "Don't worry, Jonah, it's probably just Charlotte," and then BLAM, he shot out the window. So we don't know right now if there was actually anyone out there, and even if there was (and even if it was merely Charlotte), we don't know if Jonah even heard anything, or if he did hear something and reacted out of pure adrenaline/rage/fear/anger. I agree, he's a ticking time bomb. He used to have Buddy to keep him grounded.

Speaking of Jonah, if takes a very long time for the show to start production, the actor who plays him is going to look a lot older than he does in Season 3. I wonder if that will be accounted for. It would look pretty weird if Episode 1 of Season 4 opens on the same day as this episode, since Jonah's going to look really different! Not that I'll care - I can't wait to see this show again, so I'll take it, no matter if Jonah looks 35 by then! 

 

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(edited)
On 4/10/2020 at 10:27 PM, Avaleigh said:

Helen didn't seem to have the confidence that Navarro could win the war.

this is the key. The purpose of the legitimate business interests is to give Navaro a safety net if his cartel loses the drug war. he'll be dead or in prison, but his children will be provided for. ( children and family being one of the major themes of Ozark). 

Helen is betting on Navaro losing the drug war, hence she wants sole control of his legitimate enterprises, she doesn't need the Byrdes because there'll be no money to wash once Navaro is gone. The Byrdes however are not only betting on Navaro winning the war, they are offering him a credible strategy to achieve this end by sending the US military in to bat against his  rivals. It's not hard to see why the Byrdes' play is more attractive to him than Helen's.

 

On 4/19/2020 at 4:51 AM, Suzywriter said:

Someone --possibly the gay FBI agent, who well may be already "turned" --tipped Navarro that the document was false and Helen was setting up the Byrdes. This is why he had Helen neutralized right in front of the Byrdes--close enough for them to get covered with her blood. Navarro then hugged Marty and Wendy, transferring blood from the Byrdes to him, like a blood pact. It was eerie and symbolic. Helen paid for her underhanded attempt to steal Navarro's favor with her blood.

I think it's mote likely that Helen simply doesn't have the opportunity to show the document to Navaro or tell him about it's existence, they have only just arrived at his compound in the final scene, and she's been in the cabin of  a private jet with the Byrdes prior to this, so when would she have been able to tell Navaro?

Agent Petty's ex hasn't 'turned' to help the cartel, but he has compromised himself morally by creating the witness protection document. He's not an idiot and it's made clear that he sees the conflict of interest in a cartel lawyer arranging for someone else who works for the cartel to betray the cartel, that's just absurd. he knows that the deal is Marty and Wendy's death warrant, and probably their children's as well, and he's ok with that, he's not after justice, but revenge. it's not the first time he does something like this, he deliberately lets frank Jnr believe Ruth got his men killed and nearly gets Ruth killed as a result, and he's happy for his CI to have a sexual relationship with a minor, (Helen's Daughter) to gain an advantage, He's as morally bankrupt as agent Petty was.

Edited by BasilSeal
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I prefer Darlene to Wendy, never thought I'd say that.  But Darlene seems to get more have your people's back than Wendy/Marty. Good for her for going after Frank Jr. 

 I really loved the Marty/Ruth relationship, but he should respect her more to helping him and having his back where Wendy just runs around thinking she's the Queen and doing opposite of what he says. Ruth has been more with him than Wendy.

Seems like next year will be everyone vs Byrds/Navarro with possible Marty against Navarro too.

 

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On 5/16/2020 at 6:58 AM, BasilSeal said:

 

Helen is betting on Navaro losing the drug war, hence she wants sole control of his legitimate enterprises, she doesn't need the Byrdes because there'll be no money to wash once Navaro is gone. The Byrdes however are not only betting on Navaro winning the war, they are offering him a credible strategy to achieve this end by sending the US military in to bat against his  rivals. It's not hard to see why the Byrdes' play is more attractive to him than Helen's.


I

Plot hole/ mistake here.  The US military attacking a drug trafficker in a sovereign neighbor’s country wouldn’t happen because a few mob guys were killed.  The potus would have to authorize the action, not the FBI.  We have worked with the federales down there for sure, but in this case it would likely be covert and for a lot better reason.

But Marty is a super genius who’s every plan works so.....

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I think at this point Wendy and Marty would run screaming to witness protection, but of course they will soldier on.

So who did Jonah shoot?  It can't be Charlotte, I don't see them offing a, what is she, 17 on the show now?  Maybe he shot one of Navarro's goons sent to guard them while mom and dad are in Mexico.

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54 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I really don't like the focus on Sam and Diane, but the slap fight was funny. 

I'm up to where Sam is off the wagon. I actually like how Coach and Carla are ticked about it. 

I didn't realize Fraser was around in S3. He looks so young! 

Hate to break it to you, but I'm afraid you aren't in Boston anymore 🙂

 

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They killed Helen off because if they killed Marty and Wendy, and then the kids, there would be no more show.

These characters haven’t been riding an adrenaline-fueled rocket the past 3 seasons to be killed.  If they get killed in the end, it would like a sacrifice to save the kids or something.  But that would be copying the Walter White endgame.

Think about it, all these great escapes would be meaningless if they got got.

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The witness protection they were offered was bullshit.   At absolute best Marty would still go to jail and then be forced to work for the Feds for the rest of his life.   The family would be trading one master for another.   They would lose everything they had worked for and get nothing in return.   Not even protection.   Not really.   Of course they said no.    It was an absolutely awful deal.

With Navarro they played the same game they have been playing for awhile now.  He knew them well enough to know when Marty was lying to him and when he wasn’t.   I am guessing he knew when Helen was lying to him as well.   Navarro played the odds and what team benefits him the most.  A good money launderer is a lot harder to find then a lawyer.  

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They outdid themselves with this season's cliffhanger finale!  I didn't see it coming.  At all.  Navarro having Helen executed and out of the way makes more sense in all the ways that count.  Helen compromised the whole operation when Erin was told of the truth by Ben.  (Ben was another expendable who needed to go.)  Erin wasn't "all in" like the Byrde kids are.  Helen and her divisiveness with Marty and Wendy meant she'll be more trouble than she's worth.  Navarro can always get a new attorney who may be more loyal in the end of their tenure/story.  Getting a master money launderer who doesn't want to eventually overtake his business is harder to find.

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Commenting again here how the ending took me by surprise.  I thought that when and if Helen met her demise, it would be in Season 4.  Remember Navarro already has her tortured when he wasn't pleased with her messy personal family life and the impending divorce.

I have a question about the beginning of "All In" though.  How did Marty get access to a crematorium and how did he know how to operate the thing?

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22 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

I have a question about the beginning of "All In" though.  How did Marty get access to a crematorium and how did he know how to operate the thing?

Marty and Wendy bought the funeral home, so he had full access.  As to "how to operate" . . . it's a big oven.  Put raw meat in, set temperature, close door, roast until desired "doneness" is accomplished.  Plus, if there was no manual in the office, he could have googled for instructions.

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4 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

Marty and Wendy bought the funeral home, so he had full access.  As to "how to operate" . . . it's a big oven.  Put raw meat in, set temperature, close door, roast until desired "doneness" is accomplished.  Plus, if there was no manual in the office, he could have googled for instructions.

Thanks for this!  I completely forgot about the funeral home purchase.  Now it all makes sense.

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This is my favorite show on Netflix. I watched this when it was originally released. Over the past week, I decided to rewatch all three seasons and this episode’s ending left me perplexed until I finished rewatching.

The one thing I didn’t realize last year is that to Navarro, it looks like Marty’s plan to flip an FBI worked. Navarro had his kids brought back to Mexico, which signals that the war with the Lagunas cartel is over and it’s safe to bring them back. The FBI acted on that information that Marty gave to Agent Miller, and the US government “dealt with” the Lagunas cartel. That one thing makes Marty and Wendy more far more valuable to Navarro than Helen, which is why they killed Helen. That completely went over my head the first time I watched this episode. I couldn’t understand why Helen was killed.

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On 4/2/2020 at 1:38 AM, tzad said:

I don't think Jonah just shot through a window. If you listen closely there were footsteps in the background! He may have accidentally shot Charlotte, as she was the only one in the area! Wendy foreshadowed it via "Jonah needs some support".

I didn’t hear the footsteps, but I’ll watch again the TV, with my headphones (I’m on my iPad).  I wondered if this showed that he is a bit like his uncle - something they were concerned about. He raced off and faced Helen, just like Ben.   
I’m glad that Helen is gone.  I never liked her, and I can’t stand “smug”. I don’t like Darlene, either, but I did like her dealing with Jr. 

I want Ruth and Wyatt, to be able to survive and get out of the drug business, but it seems like they’re going to continue with it, rather than sending Wyatt off to school. 

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On 3/29/2020 at 8:14 AM, Chaos Theory said:

Helen forced the issue which was her big mistake and Navarro knew enough about the Byrds to know they weren’t going to turn on him in such an obvious way.  Besides I tho it also came down to just picking who was more useful since they could no longer work together.

This makes sense, but it seems like it would be hard for Navarro (or the Byrds) to find a lawyer who could just jump in to handle all the complicated legal (or illegal) matters. Also, it was unclear whether Helen ever told Navarro that the Byrds were going to testify, or showed him the statement that she got from the FBI. If she did, wouldn't that have sealed the Byrds' fate? I guess we have to assume that she did not get a chance to do it but was going to tell him when they were in Mexico. 

On 9/5/2021 at 4:03 AM, Anela said:
On 4/2/2020 at 1:38 AM, tzad said:

I don't think Jonah just shot through a window. If you listen closely there were footsteps in the background! He may have accidentally shot Charlotte, as she was the only one in the area! Wendy foreshadowed it via "Jonah needs some support".

I didn’t hear the footsteps, but I’ll watch again

My husband and I watched again last night and did not here footsteps. It seemed like he just fired the shot in frustration and/or rage.

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1 hour ago, Paloma said:

I guess we have to assume that she did not get a chance to do it but was going to tell him when they were in Mexico. 

I could see Helen wanting to reveal it to them all together to shove it in their face. She really underestimated Marty's value as a washer, and Wendy's growing usefulness in making legitimate businesses. 

I said before, it is easier to find another crooked lawyer or washer? Marty literally wrote the software that cleans the cash and basically turned the Ozarks into their ATM overnight. 

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(edited)

Well then!  So much for Helen!  And she didn't even get a chance to show Navarro the fake confession in order to get Marty killed.  

Navarro is so fucking annoying.  Nightmare boss -- rude ungrateful asshole most of the time, and also he'll most likely kill you someday.  And you can't even quit.

How long was Wendy living in that parking lot drinking vodka?  

Aw, Marty and Wendy are getting along so well now -- and all it took was being complicit in killing Wendy's brother.  How sweet?  

Poor Jonah.  

I should feel worse for Ruth, but she just annoys me when she gets up on her high horse.  As horrible (and primarily to blame) as Wendy is, Wendy did have a point about Ruth getting Ben out of the hospital and not listening to anyone.  And never taking responsibility for her own shit.  Also,"bitch wolf"?  Is that a saying the kids are using these days?

Uggghhhh.  Darlene getting away with crazy shit again.  In what universe would Frank Sr. just go into business with this lady after she did that to his son?  And there's no way whatever is left of the Snell organization after Jacob and Ash's deaths is any match for the Kansas City mob.  That makes no sense to me.

Edited by SlovakPrincess
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