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  1. It could go either way couldn't it? They've show what they're capable of with the Daryl spin off, dead city was also watchable and well made although the logic underpinning the narrative was a bit shaky and didn't stand up to close scrutiny. This will have a decent budget and they'll have drafted in some decent writers, the trailers certainly look slick and visually impressive but that won't be enough. The world building of the 'wider TWD universe' aspect of this will need to work otherwise it will just be world beyond with a bigger budget. In the past they've proved themselves to be not so good at the world building stuff, in WB the CRM are just pantomime villains who commit genocide for reasons that make no logical sense, whenever the CRM has cropped up in the other shows it's always seemed to me that they were just throwing in random details to confuse us, like they hadn't actually thought of any overarching plan that put all these details together into something that makes up a bigger coherent picture. Even when the CRM appears as a major plot point of WB, we're still no wiser. apparently they're some sort of residual US govt that incorporates aspect of the former US military, but even that is a guess. The CRM has to have a believable backstory and logical motivations. They can do this, but more often than not they don't manage to. they'll pull out all the stops for this as the main star vehicle, I'm going to watch it and hope for the best, but i wouldn't want to bet real money on the outcome.
  2. Congrats to you and Mr Nashville on your anniversary, and a merry Christmas to all the rest of the primetimer apocalypse enjoyers out there.
  3. Yep, that sums it up succinctly. this bit struck a particular cord with me It ended up unrecognisable from the show it started out as. I thought the early seasons benefited from a greater degree of realism than the original show, it ends up far more cartoonish and nonsensical. such a waste of a good premise.
  4. Oh Come on, who amongst us hasn't been impaled on a branch, had it yanked out by a mad woman with a variable lung condition and then dug a grave? It's absurd that an injury this severe wouldn't cause troy to pass out from loss of blood and / or go into shock but but here he just walks it off. It's the epitome of the 'will this do' writing that's plagued this show for the last three seasons Well indeed, they supposedly have access to PADRE's extensive inventory of post apocalyptic survival gear, it there really no construction equipment or materials? Then again non of this makes any sense, this is just one aspect of the many things that cause one to say 'but why don't they...?'. there's so much wrong with this show it's pointless trying to list it all so i'll just go for a few of the highlights that stood out. there's a basic lack of narrative progression, we move from one scene to another and stuff has just happened for some reason and we're expected to just suck it up. How did this character find the other character? how did they get from here to there? what reason do they have for doing / saying this when last week they said the exact opposite? and so on. How does Madison get from the garage to the island in time to draw off the walkers? How is it that half a dozen people inside the garage take down 40 or 50 walkers no problem but the entire population of PADRE, who were trained for years to fight walkers, couldn't manage the 300 or so that were on the boat? Everyone on the island is dead, oh no, they're all alive and Madison saved them and they're all so grateful they will dedicate the rest of their lives to helping people because that was what Madison believed today although she'd probably have changed her mind by tomorrow again and hang on wasn't this all Madison's fault anyway for killing Troy because if he was alive he could have simply told his guys to stand down? and despite the fact that everyone's so grateful and all they're not going to bother digging her out of the rubble, yes, best leave that job to an eight year old, hang on how did Tracy get to the island? oh never mind more to the point how does she manage to dig Madison out from under the rubble from an explosion big enough destroy the entire PARDE complex and kill 300 walkers? but never mind about that now because Alicia has turned up because she heard a legend about a woman called Madison who saved everybody because word has spread far and wide about this miraculous event that happened <checks notes> yesterday. And that's just a five minute segment of the show, you could pretty much do the same for the entire hour and a half. That sums up the narrative style pretty well. it's such a sad and unsatisfactory end to a series that started out with so much more potential than this, and IMO in it's earlier seasons actually did rather better than the original at expressing it's themes and ideas. I always though that much of the problems with TWD stems from the source material being a comic, the nature of the comic book means that many of the original characters were stylised and cartoonish which works well in the visual medium of the graphic novel but doesn't always transfer to the screen as live action as well. the advantage Fear had was starting from scratch with no baggage. I remember someone on youtube making the observation that TWD was about superheroes, but Fear was about ordinary human beings. i think this was correct and the show was all the better for it. I'm repeating myself but the main theme of fear was always the morality of survival, IIRC the original tag line was 'you can't save everyone' and much of the early show is about how the characters come to terms with the stuff they have to do in order to survive. You can't save everyone turns out to be what the soldiers protecting the Clarkes' neighbourhood have decided, they have created a safe zone in the local area, but outside to cordon sanitaire they kill everyone, living and dead. it's a cynical realisation that the govt can only save a few and anyone else is just a potential vector for spreading the 'infection' and needs to be killed, (an idea covered in more detail in The Last of Us). This idea isn't just limited to the military though, when they discover that the soldiers don't intend to try and hold their position but will withdraw and 'euthanise ' the civilians, they escape but drop everyone else in the shit in the process. Strand takes them along with him on his escape plan, not because he's a good person but because he's calculated correctly he needs other people to help him execute his plan. Once they're on the Abigale and in a strong position, there are lots of desperate people who need their help but if they help them they weaken their own position, and there's always the chance that if you did help others they'd be desperate enough to kill you and take what you have because it's the only way they can survive. Ultimately, everyone who survives does so at the expense of others, much of the ensuing story is about how they try to come to terms with the guilt inherent in this realisation by helping others, with varying degrees of success, and the conflict this brings with people who think people shouldn't be helped, for, er, some reason Strand and Daniel are such important characters is because they had already compromised their morality by doing bad things in order to survive in the old world Their final conversation is pivotal because when Daniel speaks to Victor in German he is addressing Strand's new persona, Anton, he's acknowledging that Strand has changed and become someone better. the big theme at the end is can people change, can good come from bad and the answer seems to be: up to a point. People do change, murderers can repent and spend the rest of their lives doing good works but more often than not they don't. It's hard to see how someone like Troy could change. though one should be wary about diagnosing mental conditions over the telly, if troy isn't a sociopath he sure did a convincing impression of one. After all when we first meet him he's a neo Nazi, killing people for shits and giggles to see how long it takes for them to turn so he can write it down in his biog book of nature along with all the stuff about torturing squirrels as a kid. Daniel and Victor aren't sociopaths, they are people who were capable of doing bad things when the need arose, but they can also do good. Everyone in the story is compromised morally in some way and the end is about all of them finding peace with this. this might have worked but is ultimately unsatisfactory because the characters have been so badly served by the writing of late so it's hard to care or take seriously their current state of mind as no one has gone thorough a convincing mental journey to reach this point, they've just arbitrarily flip flopped between opposing ideas for no good reason. "We must trust everyone" "No one can be trusted we must kill everyone" "helping people gives life meaning" "no it gets everyone killed" "We must risk everyone's safety to save this awful person who did terrible things" "It's vitally important that we murder this child" No one cares if they've found inner peace because they'll all have changed their minds tomorrow and anyway if there's one thing we've learned from this show its that driving round the apocalypse in a big truck full of stuff helping people turns to shit real quickly.
  5. If you remember, and let's face it, why would you? Troy killed everyone at the prepper scout camp back in the day by leading a herd to the Ranch. I assume he is using the walkers as a weapon, he's led them to place where, apparently there's an entirely different climate so they'll get caught up in the frozen ground and stay there until he needs them. (presumably to attack PADRE in the near future.) OK, my bad there. looks like my powers of prediction didn't work this time which is embarrassing because this show is nothing if not predictable. In my defence it's clear that the theme here is building a better future for one's children, and there needs to be some sort of continuation for Maddison, which is kind of difficult when both her kids are dead so a lost grandchild seemed like the obvious get out clause. looks like they're going with the Bootleg Alicias tribute band instead though. I think the time jump was as much to bring this show's timeline in parity with the main show's so that they can use any characters they need for the spin offs, though i suspect everyone with the possible exception of morgan will be seeking new employment after the season finale, i can't think that the show runners of any of the spin offs will want to call back to this shit show. Well i should have been unreasonable, but by the standards of this show...... Mo was 8 going on 15, but this is the apocalypse, so maybe she just had a really hard paper round you know. you're not expecting continuity are you? we've managed ok with just hand waiving this stuff up till now. If you start demanding to know how they got the MRAP back, next thing you know they'l be having to explain where they get the ammo for it or how they've still got functioning car batteries to start it with after 10 years or where they get spare parts and filters to keep it running or what they do if they get a puncture. Or come to think of it, just how the fuck did they manage not to shoot Troy at the gas station? I mean there were at least 50 armed guys with guns trained on him, many of them in cover with all his guys out in the open, and if the shooting started, you'd make sure you shot him first wouldn't you? You see, it's much better not to ask these things, the writers obviously don't, and they're clearly much happier for it
  6. Nah, watching the actual show is masochistic enough for me.
  7. Yeah, i know what you mean. i tend to tune out for that bit, it has all the charm of a toddler proudly displaying the contents of its potty to their parents' dinner party guests.
  8. I terms of being a stand alone episode it was one of the better ones of this series, (low bar, but, you know...) decent production values, a bit of action, some of the more able actors leading, but as you say what is it actually for at this point in the story? I think it boils down to the somewhat leaden theme of something good coming from something bad, the morality of survival has always been one of the key themes for FTWD, how this world forces people to do terrible things and make impossible choices, and how this in turn causes some to embrace to bad stuff and either go mad, become evil, or to seek redemption as a coping strategy. Quite a lot of this show has been about the characters' abortive attempts to help people in order to atone for what they've been forced to do in the past. this is partly why we have characters like Daniel and Strand who had already made the choice to do bad things in our world before the apocalypse, the writers present us with these flawed characters and make them the 'good guys', or at least the people we're rooting for. which is actually quite a clever and nuanced way to explore this idea. I thought in the early seasons this made for an interesting show, but when it didn't generate the kind of viewing figures they thought it should they started to mess with it in a a sort of 'throw as much shit at the wall as you can in the hope some will stick' manner and we've ended up with the mess the show currently is. Daniel appears to have recovered spontaneously from dementia, Strand spent a year cosplaying as Idi Amin and murdering people by throwing them from the top of a tall building but now it appears that someone has pushed his factory reset button and he's back to being normal Victor again. This is just indicative of the poor writing which just flails about; trying different ideas and not paying too much heed to continuity or previous story lines. Here many of the supporting characters have been hand waived away, even ones who were previously quite important like Sarah and Wendel, (or skidmark). The purpose of this episode is to illustrate this theme of coming to terms with what one has done to survive. Dwight and Sherry defy geography to go back to where they made difficult choices in the past, confront those choices, and conclude that their lives do mean something and they can go forward and try to build a better future. This superficially makes sense but it's all rather contrived, June can't perform surgery, for some reason, Dwight spent years looking for Sherry but just walks away from her for. er. reasons, and look here's a guy who's an insulin dependent diabetic 12 years into the apocalypse because, erm because....., I know! there was a magic guy who made insulin, that's it. no you can't meet him, he went to a different school. and he's dead. All of those things are possible but it's the writers' job to make them believable and they fail, instead we get inconsistent characterisation, contrived plotting and flexible geography. The showrunners and writers have destroyed what started as a very promising show, the whole thing is just a mess, so many poorly realised, inconsistent characters, dead end story lines, unresolved plot points and disappearing characters. Even PADRE is simply a massive Deus ex machina, a post apocalyptic survival community that's set up by the govt for them to find when the series grinds to a halt. I'm going to watch to the finish because i'm, a completist and it's likely there'll be some stuff relevant to the other on going shows in there at the end, but this show has turned, it turned about three seasons ago and it's been chained up in the barn ever since being fed the occasional live chicken to keep it going while the writing team ring their hands over what to do about it. There is no cure, just shoot it already.
  9. Exactly. They've kind of painted themselves into a corner here narrative wise. The message seems to be that children, family, represent the future, Morgan has Mo, Daniel Luciana, strand his German stepson, so who will Madison have? and if the answer it no one, what exactly is the point in bringing her back at this late stage? The introduction of canned Nick is to remind us of her family, so i think this will end with her getting closure by laying Nick and Alicia to rest, with Alicia's child signifying continuation and hope for the future. Although Madison seems to be making a determined effort to die herself as yet again she's wandered off on her own apparently forgetting that she's entirely dependent on oxygen for survival and there's no way she's going to find any oxygen cylinders lying around in the apocalypse.
  10. This is my reckon where this particular plot point is going, i may well be wide of the mark but look away now if you don't want to read what might happen etc. when we last saw Alicia she was still alive, just, and was going back to the tower because she thought there might be some people there that she could help, or something. I think Alicia goes back and meets up with Troy's group. In line with the show's current theme of giving people second chances she decides to help Junior Doctor Mengele, even though she knows troy is very probably a sociopath, and very actually a mass murderer. I think troy is lying when he says he killed Alicia, i think he just says this to hurt Madison, i think Alicia is actually the mother of his child. I do think Alicia will really be dead, not least of all because i doubt ADC will want to come back and be associated with this shit show. the fact they they've dug up nick, for some reason and have his ashes suggests that they intend to have some sort of closure for Madison, both her kids are dead but look, she has a magic grandchild, who represents hope for the future and continuance, Just hope she doesn't take after her dad. There will be some contrivance to how Alicia died that means Troy blames Madison for her death, not entirely sure what that could be but non of this shit makes any sense at this stage so it could be anything. anyway, that's my theory, i'll also suggest that the magic grandkid is what brings the disparate groups together to fight whatever ultimate threat they face in the series finale. I think this is a way to tease us with Alicia and make the show's most popular character, played by the biggest name, part of the last season without having to actually persuade ADC to turn up, or to have to pay her. all in all i think this is a pretty dismal end to what was at the outset a promising series, there are quite a few people here deriding the 'awful acting' but Fear actually has a very strong cast of experienced actors Rubén Blades, Colman Domingo, Danay Garcia even Kim dickens are all accomplished actors as are many others in the extensive ensemble cast, (like the criminally underused Peter Jacobson). it's not the actors' fault that the script is dogshit. for the Nth time we had armed groups supposedly at loggerheads just standing around not doing anything, in the hotel they get the drop on Troy but just stand there and don't kill him, then troy gets the drop on them outside the hotel and returns the favour. troy is a neo nazi mass murdering psychopath who literally killed people for shits and giggles and when he got thrown out of Prepper scout camp because even the white supremacist preppers found him a bit too killy. he took his revenge by leading a horde of walkers to the Ranch and killing everyone there, but Madison doesn't think to point this out to his new friends even though she couldn't wait to grass up Strand for using a different name. fair enough Troy's new mates might not have listened but i bet the audience could have done with a recap on who the fuck Troy was. I really liked the early seasons of this show and i thought it was a better show than the original. I thought it was more grounded in reality with more realistic characters and it made a better job of articulating the key themes of the morality of survival, Now it's lost it's focus and has just become a confused badly written mess, just think of all the interesting supporting characters like Sarah, Wendel, the Rabbi, those kids they rescued, none of whom have had any sort of resolution to their stories, they've just sort of wandered off like the writers became bored and forgot about them, this is indicative of poor writing and their apparent writing strategy of just throwing as much shit at the wall as possible to see what sticks. In short this show has jumped the shark, Strand is an interesting character but last season he was cos playing as Idi Amin and throwing people of the roof of his tower, now we're supposed to accept he's back to being reasonable Stand again? how does that work exactly? I'll watch till the end because i want to see what happens but this show is dismal, a waste of a good premise and some good acting talent, and as we've seen with Dead City and That Daryl Show; it doesn't have to be like this.
  11. TBF i prefer the world building aspects myself, the problem is, and i think the rest of your post bears this out, is that TWD in the past haven't been very good at the world building stuff. They weren't very good at making their villains motivations make sense, invariably TWD villains are bad guys who do bad things because they're bad. characterisations are often vague, and individual characters often behave in ways that contradict their earlier actions, just to drive the plot The world building aspects don't always make sense and are vague on detail but invariably none of this matters because all of it gets destroyed due to reasons and bad choices and it's back to square one for more rinse an repeat misery porn. I think the standard of writing for TWD over the years has been mixed and this is in part down to the origins as a comic book. Kirkman's main theme was how the characters reacted to the impossibly grim situations and choices presented to them by the apocalypse, everything else is just secondary. now that may be ok for a comic book but in the TV series, especially as the show runners expand the universe to a long running franchise, you need a bit more than just this, and the writing has always struggled to achieve this. In the early seasons of Fear i think they made a better shot of having more coherent narratives and themes, but after season 3/4 they bottle it and reboot as a show that is more cartoonish like the main show, Fear has gone downhill since, rapidly, the final season is dire. My point was that what they've always been good at, even when the other stuff has been wanting, is the visual rendering of the apocalypse and the set piece zombie action. Daryl twatting zombies with a mace in the castle moat o r wrestling with super walkers in the arena is what they've always done best. I do think though that they've upped their game a bit with the other aspects of story telling in both this series and Dead City. there's a very good supporting ensemble cast in this show and all the main characters are both believable, interesting and consistent. Watching TWD for the world building has been something of a triumph o hope over experience over the years, i do think though that our patience may finally be about to pay off.
  12. the post credit scene is on this facebook page https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=949506765942468 Nb you'll see my summary above was slightly miss remembered, the guy who shoots the doctor who has returned to the lab does not take the laptop or the data she has downloaded of Jenner's communications, he just kills her as retribution for presumably being involved in whatever stated the ZA in the first place.
  13. Daryl spent a long time in the wilderness looking for rick, i suspect if it was rick who had returned then Carole would have mentioned it sooner in the conversation, my guess would be Morgan. My guess here is that the radio conversation sets things up for Carol to appear in a parallel story line in season two, which will presumably be made with the full number of episodes so will have more air time to fill. As i understand it Melissa McBride dropped out of the spin off because she didn't want to spend long periods filming in Europe. there's now the option of having her involved in A US based storyline where she tries to find out what has happened to Daryl. She has an idea where Daryl was and what he was doing from their conversation, when he ails to show up after a week as promised, she may decide to go looking for him, she knows roughly where he was and what he was doing and she also has the resources of what is essentially a small state at her disposal. I think the key here is the post credits scene from World Beyond where we see a scientist in a derelict French lab looking recordings of video calls made between the lab and Jenner at the CDC at the time of the outbreak, in the call the differing types of zombies are discussed. someone comes in and kills the scientist and takes the data. Presumably this guy was working for genet. this is how they know they need to go to the US for whatever it is they need from US zombies. It also suggests some sort of tie in with the CRM. IIRC during the recorded convo with Jenner it's mentioned that some of the scientists who were working at the french lab were at a conference near the location of The Commonwealth at the time of the outbreak, so if they're alive they're stranded in the US within spitting distance of Carole. I think the next season could be interesting if they get some decent writers on board to pull all these disperate threads together.
  14. another Strong Episode i thought. wonder if LeCarl still thinks cutting the boat loose was such a good idea.
  15. The early seasons focussed on the individual characters trying to survive the apocalypse, initially just to get from day to day, then to try and build some sort of community. There was very much a repetitive theme to it all as they build a community then the big bad guy comes along and tries to destroy that community because, well, erm, because they are the bad guy, and that's what bad guys do, yes, that's it. That's always been a flaw in TWD's narrative, maybe, bad guys doing bad guy shit for some reason worked ok in a comic but in a more realistic medium we perhaps expect more complex and nuanced motivations to drive the action and plot. Kirkman's main trope was to continually place his characters in horrible situations and force them to make horrible choices, the rest was always secondary, having disparate groups fighting over resources was just the simplest way to achieve this in the long run, even when it would have made more sense to cooperate, though the writers frequently got around this point simply by making the bad guys batshit crazy. they'll keep your head in a jar or wear your skin as an overcoat because that's just how they role in the apocalypse. They've squeezed 12 years worth of shows out of this rinse and repeat cycle but finally they concluded it by having the characters build a lasting community which is big enough not to fail. What we're seeing now is arguably different. People who've got this far have found their niche, they've found a way to survive that works for them. the fight now isn't about day to day survival, it's about how civilisation is rebuilt. In the US they have the Commonwealth which is now a benign democracy, and the CRM as a fascist dictatorship. there's a similar set up in France with the Union of Hope versus Genet's Pouvour (power to the living) movement. I think to be fair to the writers if they want to give the show life beyond the initial concluded story line then they have to go for this bigger theme. whether it ties in with the CRM and events in the rick and Michonne spin off remains to be seen, personally i think it probably should but we'll see. You can argue that it's more of the same, disparate members of Team Rick fighting the big bad, and you'd have a point but i would argue that it's no longer quite the same thing. they're fighting for something different, and at least this time there is some reasoning behind what the big bad guy, (of in this case gal) is doing. Baby steps, and all that.
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