S03.E13: Sex and Death

[Trini]

Dr. Shaun Murphy and Dr. Morgan Reznik grapple with a terminal cancer patient who is determined to live the last few months of his life without inhibition. Meanwhile, Dr. Reznik must confront her relationship with her mother when she comes in for a third opinion from Dr. Glassman; and Shaun and Carly's relationship reaches a new level of intimacy.

Written by Doris Egan and directed by Steven DePaul.

Airdate: Jan. 27, 2020

[SunnyBeBe]

Annette o'Toole plays Morgan's mother. I'm a long time fan of her as an actress. Does anyone know the actor who played Morgan's brother? He looks familiar. 

[Kleav]

13 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

the actor who played Morgan's brother?

Allen Leech, aka Tom Branson, from Downton Abbey. (His accent occasionally slipped through.) Small part for him; maybe he'll be back.

[Annber03]

Freaking lost it at the kilt 😄. Oh. My. God. Shaun.

And then all the talk about a "parade". Heh. But I liked the way the others talked with him about all that stuff, and having the end scene similar to that of the previous episode was a nice touch, too. 

I also loved this exchange:

"You're smart, nice, and perfectly normal."

"I don't think she's all of those things."

Seriously, though, very interesting story with Morgan and her family tonight. It was nice to see Claire talking to her about her mom, the way Morgan was there when Claire lost hers. And I liked the way they noted how, despite all their differences, there were some things Morgan and her mom had in common. I'm very glad things ended much better for her mom, though no doubt it's going to take some serious time for that entire family to hash out their issues. I mean, when Morgan's sitting in the hospital room rattling off her list of issues to her mom's face...yeah. They could all use a good session with a therapist or something. 

I also loved seeing Glassman come back to help her mom. He's been so helpful to Morgan as it is, it's only fitting he'd continue that here. 

Also glad the other case with Oliver ended on a positive note, though I feel for his poor wife and can sympathize with her frustration. I do understand the desire to just go live one's life with the knowledge they're living on borrowed time, though, and I loved how that spurred the others to discuss how they'd spend their last days. Claire still being her helpful self was no surprise, and Shaun's comments to Carly at the end-aw :). 

And we got some good interaction between Shaun and Claire as well, both personally and professionally! Yay!

[SunnyBeBe]

Morgan's background sounds pretty toxic.  

I didn't get why the dying man's wife wouldn't allow him to spend his last days doing as he pleased. It turned out well for him, but I'd have misgivings about her behavior.

[rhys]

Shaun will  be amazed when he learns women can have multiple parades.

[statsgirl]

Reznick's mother is seriously competing with Shaun's parents for Most Toxic Parent.  "Our little plodder came through."  What a bitch.

Ariel, if your sister is making up a fake family that doesn't include you, take a long look at yourself in the mirror.

46 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I didn't get why the dying man's wife wouldn't allow him to spend his last days doing as he pleased. It turned out well for him, but I'd have misgivings about her behavior.

Yeah, that seemed out of nowhere.  If you love your partner, you go with him when he wants to enjoy his last days with you. Take a leave of absence from your job, if it's not there when he's dead, you can find another. Unless you value your job more than your marriage.  Her "I thought I made you happy" was as selfish as Reznick's mother.

I didn't think the sex analogies were nearly as cute as Doris Egan (the writer) thought they are.

[thuganomics85]

Funny moments aside (which were definitely aplenty and made me laugh quite a bit), I did like that they didn't make Shaun some kind of instant perfect lover, and the initial sex wasn't as great for Carly as him.  It is always silly when shows or films make a virgin an automatically sex god his first time, so it was refreshing seeing Shaun have to learn that there is more to it than just his pleasure (not to mention his normal issues with social interactions.)  Glad that the third (I think?!) go-around worked out better for both of them.  Still, I got a kick out of all of his antics like dawning a kilt since Carly likes Outlander, and everyone else trying to give him advice on the subject.  I did think it was fitting that Lim was the one that seemed to get through to him, although I'm not quite sure why I feel that way at the moment.

I guess I can see why Reznick is the way she is: being the outcast in a family filled with artistic folks, who look down upon a "hard-working" person like her.  Doesn't take back all of the dickish moments she has had in the past, but I understand her better, and Fiona Gubelmann did a good job with all of it.  Annette O'Toole is always a delight, even though I feel kind of bad since she has had a varied and distinctive career, and yet I still automatically think of Martha Kent whenever I see her.  Don't watch Downton Abbey, but I did recognize Allen Leech as Paul Prenter from Bohemian Rhapsody, which might be why I still was side-eying the character even when he finally was more supportive, heh.

Nice seeing Glassman scrub back in for a bit and he apparently still has it!

Park and Shaun's case was an interesting one in that the victim ended up actually being okay, but, well, it seems like life as he knows it might be over still.

Liked the brief jogging moment with Melendez and Claire.  Hope they keep it that way.

Really enjoyable and fun episode.  Which means that the next one is totally going to be big-ass tearjerker, right?!

 

[tennisgurl]

Looks like Carly got a big old parade and a carnival at the end for good measure! I liked the whole Shaun plot, it makes sense that he wouldn't be awesome at sex right away, but he so wanted her to have a good time having sex, so he has to do research, get some feedback, maybe run some focus groups, etc. I was dying at Shaun in his kilt after he told Claire that Carly liked Outlander. Claire's face was like "alright, now thats something we can work with!" Also fun getting all of the doctors involved, I especially loved Parks expressions as he realized what Shaun was talking about.

Interesting backstory for Reznick, I would have thought she was from a family of super competitive doctors, not super competitive artists that treat her like crap for following the lame, dull, and not at all intellectually challenging career of being a doctor. Their family does seem to be very messed up and there seem to be a lot of toxic things happening, but it also seemed possible, especially after her idea saved her mom and she showed her brother how medical science can be as beautiful as any painting, that maybe things can improve for them a bit moving forward. This does certainly explain a lot about Reznick and the massive chip on her shoulder, but I had to laugh at her sitting there and reading all of the crappy things her mom did as a parent as she sits in the hospital, including reading bad reviews of her art that cause her to have a seizure! Thats an impressive level of petty! Always awesome seeing Annette o'Toole!

Nice seeing Glassman grab a scalpel and start to possibly get back in the saddle again. 

The plot with Live Like You Were Dying guy was interesting. If your dying, do you enjoy the little things you have consistently loved, or do you go out and do every crazy thing you have always wanted to do? I can kind of get the wife feeling like just spending time with her wasnt enough and being hurt by that, especially as she felt that these adventures were more important than being with her, but its also hard to blame a dying person for wanting to live as much as possible with the time they have left and exploring the world. Either way, looks like now he has his whole, much longer, life ahead of him, but that life was blown up. 

 

[Robert Lynch]

Not to mention Annette O'Toole was in the It mini series as well as being Mrs. Kent in Smallville.

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I didn't get why the dying man's wife wouldn't allow him to spend his last days doing as he pleased. It turned out well for him, but I'd have misgivings about her behavior.

In the end it turned out well for him, but every reckless thrill-seeking endeavor ended with him going to the hospital. Now he wants to go into the jungle where there are no hospitals. The wife only wanted to see he die once, not once a week after every little stunt he pulls.

P.S. He might be dying, but she is planning on living a long time, what is she going to do after he farts away their entire life savings?

[possibilities]

He was only spending his own retirement fund, so he wasn't actually spending all their money. If he was dying, he wasn't going to need his retirement account.

 

ETA: I wish shingles really could cure cancer.

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by possibilities

[bros402]

When they were talking to cancer guy at the beginning about a port, some of the stuff was.... odd. They said there's nothing they can do for the nausea? They can always throw more meds at him! Especially during infusion! I'm very surprised they didn't give him a port before chemo started, since most IV chemos love to wreck veins!
 

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Morgan's background sounds pretty toxic.  

I didn't get why the dying man's wife wouldn't allow him to spend his last days doing as he pleased. It turned out well for him, but I'd have misgivings about her behavior.

Morgan's background is definitely something.

He was draining their savings account and his retirement account. She would most likely need that money after his death.

3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Reznick's mother is seriously competing with Shaun's parents for Most Toxic Parent.  "Our little plodder came through."  What a bitch.

Ariel, if your sister is making up a fake family that doesn't include you, take a long look at yourself in the mirror.

Yeah, that seemed out of nowhere.  If you love your partner, you go with him when he wants to enjoy his last days with you. Take a leave of absence from your job, if it's not there when he's dead, you can find another. Unless you value your job more than your marriage.  Her "I thought I made you happy" was as selfish as Reznick's mother.

I didn't think the sex analogies were nearly as cute as Doris Egan (the writer) thought they are.

I thought Reznick's mom meant it as "plotter" and not "plodder"

Yeah, if she is making up a fake family by the time she gets to college, the family needs to take a look in the mirror.

The writer had to think of some way to refer to an orgasm - networks don't let shows say orgasm.

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

He was only spending his own retirement fund, so he wasn't actually spending all their money. If he was dying, he wasn't going to need his retirement account.

 

ETA: I wish shingles really could cure cancer.

 

Shingles curing cancer would be nice.

[Whimsy]

9 hours ago, Kleav said:

Allen Leech, aka Tom Branson, from Downton Abbey. (His accent occasionally slipped through.) Small part for him; maybe he'll be back.

It took me SO LONG to place him lol.  

5 hours ago, bros402 said:

When they were talking to cancer guy at the beginning about a port, some of the stuff was.... odd. They said there's nothing they can do for the nausea? They can always throw more meds at him! Especially during infusion! I'm very surprised they didn't give him a port before chemo started, since most IV chemos love to wreck veins!
 

Morgan's background is definitely something.

He was draining their savings account and his retirement account. She would most likely need that money after his death.

I thought Reznick's mom meant it as "plotter" and not "plodder"

Yeah, if she is making up a fake family by the time she gets to college, the family needs to take a look in the mirror.

The writer had to think of some way to refer to an orgasm - networks don't let shows say orgasm.

Shingles curing cancer would be nice.

I thought this at first, too, but I think she meant plodder.  She had said something earlier in the episode about how she was a hard worker, etc.  But, as a diss, not in a supportive way.  Basically, she just plods along... not talented. I just can't understand anyone who thinks working hard in school, going through med school and getting a job as saving people as lesser than... anything.  I'm not saying she should me idolized, but treated as a valuable member of the family at the very least. 

I was wondering if the shingles was based on something that happened in real life.  I mean, I guess if it were they would try to figure out how to force shingles onto cancer patients.  It just seemed so weird that maybe it was based on a kernel of truth.

I also didn't get that wife.  Instead of complain, talk about things they COULD do that wouldn't effectively wipe out her financially but would still make him feel like he was living his best life for the time he had left.  I thought I only heard him saying he was spending his retirement, not their savings as well but I may have missed that.  If that was the case, she should have gone with him and relished the last moments they had together.  

I am over the Carly and Shaun sex-show.  I don't want every episode to be so focused on their sex life.  I was enjoying (what I thought was) a change of pace in a medical show where it wasn't all about sex.  I stopped watching Grey's Anatomy a LONG time ago because I was tired of all the antics.  

[milner]

We don’t know enough about the dying mans finances to comment fairly. If they are a lower income family they might need two incomes to manage their bills. Many company plans do have lump sum payments or monthly allowances for surviving spouses.  That is unless he has used it all up. If it was his own plan or savings it would all go to her.  We also don’t know if she’ll be left with outstanding medical bills. They are a couple and he should give some consideration as to how she’ll manage on her own. 
Also I guess I am a prude or just very private but I would be very upset if my partner was discussing our sex life with several colleagues. It is even worse since she works with them. It would be different if he was talking about some woman they don’t know. I would have preferred a private talk with Glassman, Clare or even park. It all felt a little juvenile.  He certainly is a fast learner going from near virgin to parade marshal in a day or so. Most couples need more time. 

[AriAu]

I am glad that they are showing us the good in the Shawn/Carly relationship, but this was over really TMI....cute, but TMI. Reminded me of the scene in Friends where Monica is  counting errogenous zones ("Seven, Seven,Seven....ahhhh Seven")....but this is not a sitcom!

I do know that the idea of having viruses attack cancer cells is a concept, along with toxins (like chemo itself), but seems just a little too simple to have it be shingles virus.

Quote

Not to mention Annette O'Toole was in the It mini series as well as being Mrs. Kent in Smallville.

Most importantly, she was in One on One with Robbie Benson.....16 year old me had quite the crush on her!

[Lady Calypso]

Wow. The Reznick family is more messed up than I thought. Not that I think Morgan was right in some of her decisions (her lashing out at people is not fun to watch), but her mother is a piece of work, herself. And her brother isn't so great either, with not standing up for Morgan when her mother insults her like that. 

I didn't expect her backstory to be like this, but I appreciate it. It shows why Morgan is the way that she is. I can't blame her for lying about her family. They don't respect her either! At least her brother kind of started to come around at the end. 

It was also great to see more Glassman. I'm glad he decided to help out with the surgery! 

The Shaun/Carly stuff was funny, at least. I laughed really hard at Shaun's Outlander cosplay. And I think it was important for Shaun to learn that he won't be good at sex through reading about it. I also laughed at how Lim's advice was what worked in the end. 

I felt for the guy who genuinely was dying...until he wasn't. I can imagine how hard it was on his wife, but he's also correct in that he should be able to live his last months the way that he wants to. It's a hard decision, either way.

[PinkRibbons]

Well, Morgan sure comes by that evil streak of hers honestly. Her family was so awful I kept wanting her to snap at her mother, "Well guess what, the only thing I did inherit from you is going to ruin to my dream career, so I guess I should go find somewhere to die the second I can't perform surgery anymore!" (Her Mom did mention she was having a good arthritis day, and IIRC Morgan mentioned her RA was hereditary.) The idea that what she is doing doesn't require any inherent talent is absurd. In Russian Jewish culture we have a specific blessing for surgeons and musicians: May you never have pain in your hands. And that's not even getting into the insane amount of intelligence and commitment needed to pursue such a challenging and rewarding career.

I wish this show could get through an episode about Shaun and Carly without making me cringe with second-hand embarrassment.

That being said, I enjoyed the metaphors (and oh my goodness, the scene of Shaun listing of the things he loves about the world was so lovely!). I felt like Lim was giving advice very much out of appreciation that Shaun was asking his female coworkers for advice and was so sincere about wanting to please Carly without really getting his own ego involved in why.

Also considering how incredibly focused Shaun is capable of being...well, Carly is a lucky woman.

Edited January 28, 2020 by PinkRibbons

[Evagirl]

I thought the cancer guy was pretty selfish myself.  You know you only have months to live, so you drain your retirement account to have "real fun" before you kick the bucket, leaving your spouse having to work for the next 20 years 'cause you had to have fun before departing this world.  Selfish, selfish, selfish!

Had he really wanted to do all those things, why didn't he mention it during their 20-years of marriage?  They could have done some of those things together.  She didn't have a clue he wanted to do any of that stuff b/c he only made up his bucket list when he was at death's door.  No thought to how she would end up financially.  Like she said, "I thought I made you happy."

Buying the car was just stupid.  She would have no use for it after he died.  He just didn't give a sh*t about her well being at all.

When I leave this world, I want my loved ones to be in the least amount of pain (emotionally and financially) as possible.  That's my departing gift to them and that would make me very happy.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Evagirl
typo

[DFWGina]

Even if he was spending his own retirement fund, that fund is a part of the wife's (soon to be widow's) retirement financial plan.  Since she also works, their retirement is dependent upon both people fully funding their retirement plans.   If something happens to either retirement fund, it forces them to make changes to the entire plan for their retirement.

I am totally down with the live like you are dying part BUT only to the extent that it doesn't leave the family in a bind after the person passes.  Maybe there was a big life insurance policy that would cover the refunding of his retirement account?  We don't know that but to just hand wave that he was spending "his" money is not really how life works for most married couples who are expecting to retire together.

[DearEvette]

I thought the dying husband was selfish.  It was clear the wife was being pulled along for the ride and each time he showed back up in the hospital you saw more and more disquiet on her face.  I know if I want to draw down from our retirement account before we actually retire, it requires my husband's notarized signature before I can take any money out now.  I head wank she was on board up to a point and only made the comment about the money when it seemed like his expenditures were getting more and more outrageous.  I mean, a trip to Costa Rica isn't a crazy expense since a lot of people can swing a fancy trip out of regular savings.  But a Ferrari can run you about 300,000 - 400,000 bucks.  That is a LOT of money for a car whose value  just going to depreciate.   

I loved  Shaun's little speech about the stuff he loved, e.g. the crisp apple and Pi being constant in a circle etc.  The happiness of small things.  I agree with that.

I knew Shaun was gonna get TMI about Carly. In the middle of cringing about it, I found much of it funny.  Like Morgan's dry nod when Lim said 'Some men take the pizza out of the microwave too early."  Basically Lim's entire scene was funny.  And I like how Shaun was casually reading a manual called 'The G Spot' and then saying "I don't think that's anatomically correct."  LOL.  And yeah nice call back to last week's ep when we get Carly having a goofy sex grin this time.

[izabella]

I cringed through everything about Shaun and Carly's sexcapades, especially the talk about taking the pizza out of the microwave too early.  WHO bakes pizza in a microwave????   Are there that many soggy crust lovers?   If anything, they should have been talking about preheating the oven before putting the pizza in.

I was really annoyed because, once again, Shaun is bringing his and Carly's business to everyone but Carly.  And once again, none of those people told him to ASK CARLY what she likes!  It may have been Shaun's first week at sex, but it wasn't Carly's and no book was going to tell him what SHE likes, specifically. 

The bucket list guy...I think he was saying he wanted to MOVE to Costa Rica for the last six months of his life so he'd be spending it somewhere sunny and warm.  That's a different thing than just a two-week vacation or something, and his wife is absolutely not going to be able to do that unless they are wealthy and she doesn't have a job.

[Whimsy]

On 1/28/2020 at 9:38 AM, AriAu said:

I am glad that they are showing us the good in the Shawn/Carly relationship, but this was over really TMI....cute, but TMI. Reminded me of the scene in Friends where Monica is  counting errogenous zones ("Seven, Seven,Seven....ahhhh Seven")....but this is not a sitcom!

I do know that the idea of having viruses attack cancer cells is a concept, along with toxins (like chemo itself), but seems just a little too simple to have it be shingles virus.

Most importantly, she was in One on One with Robbie Benson.....16 year old me had quite the crush on her!

And I had a crush on Robbie Benson!

[ShortyMac]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

I knew Shaun was gonna get TMI about Carly. In the middle of cringing about it, I found much of it funny.  Like Morgan's dry nod when Lim said 'Some men take the pizza out of the microwave too early."  Basically Lim's entire scene was funny.  And I like how Shaun was casually reading a manual called 'The G Spot' and then saying "I don't think that's anatomically correct."  LOL.  And yeah nice call back to last week's ep when we get Carly having a goofy sex grin this time.

I loved Lim there. lol

Morgan's story line did not compute for me. Her creative mom and siblings look down on her because she's a surgeon?? An occupation that requires immense smarts, commitment, and fine motor skills? It is not for the faint of heart.

Usually, the story is that the artist in a family of professionals is the black sheep. This flip in the script didn't work for me at all.

[rmontro]

10 hours ago, bros402 said:

They said there's nothing they can do for the nausea? They can always throw more meds at him!

This is the show that couldn't anesthetize a woman without setting off her opiate addiction, so there you go.  I'm beginning to wonder about the medical consulting on this show.

I was a little shocked that Shaun said he thought about sex with everybody.  But I thought it was funny at the end when Claire and Reznick were wondering about his "focus".  And the kilt was straight up comedy.

Regarding the dying man with cancer who found out he was going to live:  I wasn't sure if he was deflated at the end because he had ruined his life with his wife, or because he had lost his over the top drive to live out every whim.  Maybe both.

[cinsays]

15 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Yeah, that seemed out of nowhere.  If you love your partner, you go with him when he wants to enjoy his last days with you. Take a leave of absence from your job, if it's not there when he's dead, you can find another. Unless you value your job more than your marriage.  

Well, after a certain age, some jobs are not that easy to find, so I get her reluctance to do that. Plus, when she mentioned something about him burning thru a bunch of money already, his response was that he wouldn't need it (if he died). Yeah, right, but she might need it. Seems pretty selfish on his part too.

[Fable]

I was having one of those days today, so I’m glad this was a fairly lighthearted episode.  I agree that all the sex talk and euphemisms were kind of silly and childish, and it also annoys me to no end when Shaun constantly discusses his relationship with Carly with others, although I have to admit, I did get in quite a few laughs between eye rolls. 

[possibilities]

6 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Shaun was casually reading a manual called 'The G Spot' and then saying "I don't think that's anatomically correct." 

And then Claire started reading it with him, over his shoulder. Heh.

 

5 hours ago, izabella said:

If anything, they should have been talking about preheating the oven before putting the pizza in.

So true. But, also, maybe both things are true.

I agree Shaun needed to talk to Carly, not everyone else. I thought one of them did suggest that, but I can't remember who. So maybe it didn't happen.

Carly has already told Shaun once that she doesn't like him talking to others about things that are private, and that he should talk to her about those things. So that makes it even worse.

I do like that the show tried to show us that Shaun could be a good partner, and some of his particular qualities could be assets, not only as a surgeon.

With the dying/not dying guy, I thought he was manic, and that he was fighting his fear of death by forcing himself into an adrenaline high through thrill-seeking. I was surprised no one in-show suggested this as at least a possibility. I generally agree with BOTH the idea of spending your last days living out your dreams AND with being considerate towards what you'll put your loved ones through once you're gone.

Overall, I think the wife's position was as sour as his was delirious, and if they had been more than a case of the week, we might have been able to see the complexities developed more. That would have been interesting to me. As it was, I think they raised more questions than they answered, which is okay to do sometimes, I guess.

Morgan's family was horrible. I was amazed she was still so attached to her mom and desperate to keep her alive. It really seemed like there was something wrong with both her mother and her brother, with how extreme their hostility to her was and how incapable they were of caring about her point of view at all.

I'm not liking the Claire-Melendez jogs. I think it's wrong for him to be hanging out with her outside work, and all the moreso when he and Lim couldn't work things out -- he of all people knows better.

[AnimeMania]

7 hours ago, izabella said:

I cringed through everything about Shaun and Carly's sexcapades, especially the talk about taking the pizza out of the microwave too early.  WHO bakes pizza in a microwave????   Are there that many soggy crust lovers?   If anything, they should have been talking about preheating the oven before putting the pizza in.

And not taking it out until the crust is brown and the cheese is all gooey!

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

And then Claire started reading it with him, over his shoulder. Heh.

I liked the puzzled look she had on her face.

[Guest]

I really hate the sex plot line and wish they would focus on parts of Shaun’s story that aren’t relationship heavy. The kilt was funny but overall I just cringed through most of it. They’re playing it with him seeming very young, and like his coworkers are teaching him about sex.

[Suzysite]

I know this show isn't supposed to be realistic medicine, but come on.  Morgan's mom had TWO brain surgeries and no shaved hair, no bandages, no ICU, just up and checking herself out immediately after the first one and barely any effects after the second.   The show could at least try. 

Also, I wanted to hit her in her pretentious artsy face with a two-by-four. 

[mojito]

What a cringe-worthy episode. Not only is Carly creepy, the whole Shaun story line has become creepy. It's bad enough that Shaun is having these inappropriate conversations at work, he's talking about someone who's a co-worker. I wish he'd turn to Leah and Glassman for these conversations. Glassman should have time, now that his wife has seemed to have disappeared.

[statsgirl]

I've followed Doris Egan through House and Krypton to The Good Doctor and she's generally a decent writer. But here she wrote a bunch of stereotypes types of people who were really not cognitively complex. The Cancer Couple doesn't matter so much but Reznik's family were the A plot.

13 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

Well, Morgan sure comes by that evil streak of hers honestly. Her family was so awful I kept wanting her to snap at her mother, "Well guess what, the only thing I did inherit from you is going to ruin to my dream career, so I guess I should go find somewhere to die the second I can't perform surgery anymore!" (Her Mom did mention she was having a good arthritis day, and IIRC Morgan mentioned her RA was hereditary.) The idea that what she is doing doesn't require any inherent talent is absurd. In Russian Jewish culture we have a specific blessing for surgeons and musicians: May you never have pain in your hands. And that's not even getting into the insane amount of intelligence and commitment needed to pursue such a challenging and rewarding career.

Reznik's mother said to her 'thank goodness you inherited nothing from me' in reference to it (what a sweetheart of a mother!) so she doesn't know about her daughter's RA.

Mama R. seems to have a bad case of stupidity for saying that technical people have no creativity, they just tell themselves that they do.  Does she not know of Jonathan Miller? Michael Crichton?  And that old guy, Leonardo Da Vinci?  Ariel says that they didn't tell Reznik about her mother's condition because she would have a medical opinion that doesn't fall into line with all the artistic opinions?

Shaun's parents are not nice people but I understand them and why they do what they do. I don't understand Reznik's family. There was really no reason to make them emotionally stupid as well as emotionally abusive.

15 hours ago, possibilities said:

He was only spending his own retirement fund, so he wasn't actually spending all their money. If he was dying, he wasn't going to need his retirement account

That's what I heard to, his retirement money, not their savings.  It may be that he spent all his time working, didn't indulge or take vacations because he wanted to save money for their retirement. Now he's realized that "it's now or never".  I hope he only leased the car rather than bought it.

What struck me was his wife's "I thought I made you happy". Narcissistic much? She can make him happy and still have him want to experiences things before he dies.  She didn't offer to work out any kind of compromise, just walked out on him as if he was the one rejecting her.

14 hours ago, bros402 said:

When they were talking to cancer guy at the beginning about a port, some of the stuff was.... odd. They said there's nothing they can do for the nausea? They can always throw more meds at him! Especially during infusion! I'm very surprised they didn't give him a port before chemo started, since most IV chemos love to wreck veins!

It's weird, there are anti-nausea drugs. And I got my port just after my second infusion because the chemo drugs were burning my veins. Why didn't his doctors think of that?

4 hours ago, Whimsy said:

And I had a crush on Robbie Bemson!

Same here!

[MaryHedwig]

4 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

And not taking it out until the crust is brown and the cheese is all gooey!

Oh stop!!!

 

[AnimeMania]

23 minutes ago, MaryHedwig said:

5 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

And not taking it out until the crust is brown and the cheese is all gooey!

Oh stop!!!

Not until I go 3% longer.

[topanga]

5 hours ago, Suzysite said:

I know this show isn't supposed to be realistic medicine, but come on.  Morgan's mom had TWO brain surgeries and no shaved hair, no bandages, no ICU, just up and checking herself out immediately after the first one and barely any effects after the second.   The show could at least try. 

Also, I wanted to hit her in her pretentious artsy face with a two-by-four. 

So true. The only thing I liked about her mother was that she acknowledged how beautiful Claire’s eyes are. I think that whenever there’s a close-up of her, but it seems no one else notices or comments. Not even Jared or any of her recent hook-ups. 
 

On 1/27/2020 at 11:07 PM, Annber03 said:

Seriously, though, very interesting story with Morgan and her family tonight. It was nice to see Claire talking to her about her mom, the way Morgan was there when Claire lost hers. And I liked the way they noted how, despite all their differences, there were some things Morgan and her mom had in common. I'm very glad things ended much better for her mom, though no doubt it's going to take some serious time for that entire family to hash out their issues. I mean, when Morgan's sitting in the hospital room rattling off her list of issues to her mom's face...yeah. They could all use a good session with a therapist or something. 

I liked this storyline. Morgan and her mom both have control issues. I forget who pointed that out. But I laughed out when Morgan told her brother, “You need to listen to me and do what I say!” I can imagine her saying this even as a little girl. 

And in terms of Morgan listing her mom’s faults, I thought they were trying to keep her awake and even a little upset in order to induce a seizure. Also, parents are often in denial about the fucked up shit they’ve done to their kids—or they flat-out lie. As someone who’s been gaslighted by my parents when I try to discuss childhood hurts, I could sympathize with Morgan’s detailed memories. To still remember not being picked up from preschool at 4 years old because your mom was doing something artistic with your older sister? That had to hurt. And where was the dad? Did I miss that?
 

[bros402]

18 hours ago, Whimsy said:

It took me SO LONG to place him lol.  

I thought this at first, too, but I think she meant plodder.  She had said something earlier in the episode about how she was a hard worker, etc.  But, as a diss, not in a supportive way.  Basically, she just plods along... not talented. I just can't understand anyone who thinks working hard in school, going through med school and getting a job as saving people as lesser than... anything.  I'm not saying she should me idolized, but treated as a valuable member of the family at the very least. 

I was wondering if the shingles was based on something that happened in real life.  I mean, I guess if it were they would try to figure out how to force shingles onto cancer patients.  It just seemed so weird that maybe it was based on a kernel of truth.

I also didn't get that wife.  Instead of complain, talk about things they COULD do that wouldn't effectively wipe out her financially but would still make him feel like he was living his best life for the time he had left.  I thought I only heard him saying he was spending his retirement, not their savings as well but I may have missed that.  If that was the case, she should have gone with him and relished the last moments they had together.  

I am over the Carly and Shaun sex-show.  I don't want every episode to be so focused on their sex life.  I was enjoying (what I thought was) a change of pace in a medical show where it wasn't all about sex.  I stopped watching Grey's Anatomy a LONG time ago because I was tired of all the antics.  

As far as I know - the only relation between Shingles and Cancer is that you are at a higher risk of singles if you are neutropenic

15 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I thought the dying husband was selfish.  It was clear the wife was being pulled along for the ride and each time he showed back up in the hospital you saw more and more disquiet on her face.  I know if I want to draw down from our retirement account before we actually retire, it requires my husband's notarized signature before I can take any money out now.  I head wank she was on board up to a point and only made the comment about the money when it seemed like his expenditures were getting more and more outrageous.  I mean, a trip to Costa Rica isn't a crazy expense since a lot of people can swing a fancy trip out of regular savings.  But a Ferrari can run you about 300,000 - 400,000 bucks.  That is a LOT of money for a car whose value  just going to depreciate.   

I loved  Shaun's little speech about the stuff he loved, e.g. the crisp apple and Pi being constant in a circle etc.  The happiness of small things.  I agree with that.

I knew Shaun was gonna get TMI about Carly. In the middle of cringing about it, I found much of it funny.  Like Morgan's dry nod when Lim said 'Some men take the pizza out of the microwave too early."  Basically Lim's entire scene was funny.  And I like how Shaun was casually reading a manual called 'The G Spot' and then saying "I don't think that's anatomically correct."  LOL.  And yeah nice call back to last week's ep when we get Carly having a goofy sex grin this time.

With the Ferrari - I was thinking maybe he did one of those "drive a sports car" experiences where you pay like $500 and drive one around for 30 minutes.

13 hours ago, rmontro said:

This is the show that couldn't anesthetize a woman without setting off her opiate addiction, so there you go.  I'm beginning to wonder about the medical consulting on this show.

I know, I know, I just expected a show to have some basic knowledge. With the opiate thing, maybe they wanted to make a point about the opioid crisis, sure, whatever, but this was just ugh

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

It's weird, there are anti-nausea drugs. And I got my port just after my second infusion because the chemo drugs were burning my veins. Why didn't his doctors think of that?

Yup! There's a bunch of anti-nausea meds. I've was on Compazine, Reglan, and Zofran (all at different times. They didn't want to try any others, given that I have epilepsy, but if someone doesn't have a history of seizures (or some other conditions that this guy obviously did not have or they would have mentioned or shown it) they have like a dozen medications they can try.

For some reason his doctors didn't think of a port until he was doing maintenance chemo because.... reasons?

Are you cancer free now (Or at least in remission)? I hope so!

If you need some support resources, even if you are long in remission, I can message you some - i'm in a chat with people with cancer, survivors, caregivers, a whole lovely community.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, statsgirl said:

That's what I heard to, his retirement money, not their savings.  It may be that he spent all his time working, didn't indulge or take vacations because he wanted to save money for their retirement. Now he's realized that "it's now or never".  I hope he only leased the car rather than bought it.

But in a lot of states, retirement money specifically is designed as community property. A lot of states you can't even leave your retirement funds to anyone but your spouse 100% without their notarized consent.  If, when he received his diagnosis, she had divorced him, all retirement accounts would have likely been split in half - especially if her earning potential had been impacted by the marriage (i.e. if she was a homemaker for a time, trailing spouse, etc.).

He wasn't wrong for wanting experiences, but he was being selfish in not caring how it impacted his wife.  She had a long life left theoretically, and him spending down assets that were probably meant to sustain both of them is not right.

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

He wasn't wrong for wanting experiences, but he was being selfish in not caring how it impacted his wife.  She had a long life left theoretically, and him spending down assets that were probably meant to sustain both of them is not right.

They could have had separate retirement accounts, and it sounded like they did.  Of course, if there was any left in his, she likely would have inherited it.  But that's not his problem and shouldn't be an issue.  I do agree he was selfish though, because he didn't care about how he was impacting his wife.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, rmontro said:

They could have had separate retirement accounts, and it sounded like they did.  Of course, if there was any left in his, she likely would have inherited it.  But that's not his problem and shouldn't be an issue.  I do agree he was selfish though, because he didn't care about how he was impacting his wife.

Retirement planning is generally a joint issue which is why the courts tend to view it as such.  Spouses may choose to overfund one partner over the others for better investment choices in a plan, better company match, or a number of other issues.  And traditionally, if a family chooses to have a parent stay home for one reason or another, it is statistically more likely to be the mother.  This is why most pension plans won't even allow a participant to choose single life instead of survivor life without a sign-off by the spouse. For many, many people, making sure your family is taken care of once you're gone is very much their problem, hence the popularity of life insurance.  

Legally, sure. He was entitled to do what he wanted at that point with his money, but morally? I think he was being selfish, though probably out of shock/fear.

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

He wasn't wrong for wanting experiences, but he was being selfish in not caring how it impacted his wife.  She had a long life left theoretically, and him spending down assets that were probably meant to sustain both of them is not right.

Right.  And I think it wasn't even abut the money really, although that was one of the things brought up. I think the biggest impact on the wife was on her sense of place in his priorities.  He is going to die and has a defined end date and rather than spending it with her in meaningful ways so she could soak up as much time with him as she could, it seemed he was hyper focused on chasing other things and she wasn't even on his radar.

And of course, the irony is that all these things he is doing keeps landing him back in the hospital debilitating him in other ways and actually lessening the quality of the time he has left.

[rmontro]

3 hours ago, deaja said:

Legally, sure. He was entitled to do what he wanted at that point with his money, but morally? I think he was being selfish, though probably out of shock/fear.

No doubt.  Without trying to be callus, the biggest question here that I see is how much are you obligated to your spouse?  It was his life and he wanted to end it on his own terms.  Is he morally obligated to instead do what his wife wanted instead of what he wanted?  He certainly should have taken her feelings, wants, and needs into consideration, but is he really obligated to bow to her wishes once they reach an impasse?  

It's not an easy answer.  If you're married, you're supposed to become one, but when you look at the divorce rate obviously that isn't always the case.  To some extent, you're still responsible for yourself.  If he wanted to be cremated but his spouse wanted him to have a traditional burial, would it be immoral for him to insist on cremation?  

Not trying to be difficult here, I just find the situation thought provoking.  

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, rmontro said:

No doubt.  Without trying to be callus, the biggest question here that I see is how much are you obligated to your spouse?  It was his life and he wanted to end it on his own terms.  Is he morally obligated to instead do what his wife wanted instead of what he wanted?  He certainly should have taken her feelings, wants, and needs into consideration, but is he really obligated to bow to her wishes once they reach an impasse?  

It's not an easy answer.  If you're married, you're supposed to become one, but when you look at the divorce rate obviously that isn't always the case.  To some extent, you're still responsible for yourself.  If he wanted to be cremated but his spouse wanted him to have a traditional burial, would it be immoral for him to insist on cremation?  

Not trying to be difficult here, I just find the situation thought provoking.  

It is thought provoking and I don't think there is an easy answer. I don't think she was wrong to say "Aren't I enough" or whatever it was she said. They were both hurting. They were both coming to grips facing the unknown. There's often a lot of fear in dying, but there is also a lot of fear in losing a spouse. Not to mention, they were both grieving and in grief, bad decisions are often made.

[statsgirl]

6 hours ago, DearEvette said:

And I think it wasn't even abut the money really, although that was one of the things brought up. I think the biggest impact on the wife was on her sense of place in his priorities.  He is going to die and has a defined end date and rather than spending it with her in meaningful ways so she could soak up as much time with him as she could, it seemed he was hyper focused on chasing other things and she wasn't even on his radar.

They were meaningful to him. It looked like he was trying to do everything that he had wanted to do and put off over and over.

He didn't exclude her, she was welcome to join him whether it's in Costa Rica or for a car ride.  She could soak up time with him but he wanted to spend the time his way, not hers.

The problem is that they both had bad communication skills; if she was worried about money, then she needed to tell him, sit down together and look at their finances and what she might need in the future. If she was worried about losing her job and being unable to find another, she needed to talk to him about how they could work around that. There's no reason for him to give up going to Costa Rica because she wanted to say home and go about her daily life like normal.

It's nothing that couldn't be overcome with a little communication. Walking out on your dying husband because he doesn't want to spend his remaining time doing what you want seems extreme to me.

16 hours ago, bros402 said:

For some reason his doctors didn't think of a port until he was doing maintenance chemo because.... reasons?

Are you cancer free now (Or at least in remission)? I hope so!
If you need some support resources, even if you are long in remission, I can message you some - i'm in a chat with people with cancer, survivors, caregivers, a whole lovely community.

To be fair, my doctor didn't tell me about it either (she forgot); I found out about it from a fellow patient during the hours spent there waiting.

Thanks, I"m in remission now and so far, so good.  I'd love to know about that chat though.

[possibilities]

That lack of willingness to compromise or communicate to find common ground was reflected in both the dying guy/his wife story AND the story with Morgan's family. But Morgan found a way to break through it with her brother, who then got through to their mom, because she didn't give up.

I think, in a different way, the Carly/Shaun story was also about solving a problem by staying invested and not giving up. The message of the week seemed to be: keep trying, don't make a difference into a dead end.

 

[bros402]

4 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Thanks, I"m in remission now and so far, so good.  I'd love to know about that chat though.

I'll PM the link to you

[heyitsme87]

Every single one of Shauns co-workers knows about his and Carlys sex life! Uugh! Just no! Everything about this pairing is cringeworthy to me. I hope the show can go back to Shaun diagnosing and saving lives. 

I felt really bad for Morgan. Had to have been horrible growing up with that family. 

I think I see a future Melendez and Claire pairing!

 

 

[KaveDweller]

On 1/28/2020 at 2:59 AM, bros402 said:

The writer had to think of some way to refer to an orgasm - networks don't let shows say orgasm.

Wait, since when? Seinfeld said orgasm (multiple times) on air back in the 90s. Networks are so weird with what the censor.

On 1/28/2020 at 8:31 AM, milner said:

Also I guess I am a prude or just very private but I would be very upset if my partner was discussing our sex life with several colleagues. It is even worse since she works with them. It would be different if he was talking about some woman they don’t know. I would have preferred a private talk with Glassman, Clare or even park. It all felt a little juvenile.  He certainly is a fast learner going from near virgin to parade marshal in a day or so. Most couples need more time. 

I would be super pissed if I was Carly. She wasn't even happy when he was talking to other people about holding hands.

I know Shaun was looking for advice, and they were trying to help, but it seemed wrong to me. It was amusing to watch, but I'm hoping now that he has given her a "parade" they'll spend less time on sex stuff.

On 1/28/2020 at 12:36 PM, izabella said:

I was really annoyed because, once again, Shaun is bringing his and Carly's business to everyone but Carly.  And once again, none of those people told him to ASK CARLY what she likes!  It may have been Shaun's first week at sex, but it wasn't Carly's and no book was going to tell him what SHE likes, specifically. 

Someone did tell Shaun to ask Carly. Park I think. Shaun was talking about reading books and Park told him to talk to Carly. Someone else was there too, and agreed. Shaun ignored them.

[bros402]

2 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Wait, since when? Seinfeld said orgasm (multiple times) on air back in the 90s. Networks are so weird with what the censor.

I remember hearing in some article years ago that the networks clamped down on words in the 2000s, after Janet Jackson's nip slip - so writers just come up with alternate phrases to avoid standards & practices sending the script back with a million notes