S39.E14: Island of the Idols Reunion

[Ms Blue Jay]

11 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Ok you guys, you are ALL gaslighting me LMAO! I knew I wasn’t going crazy. There was a big discussion about the Fan Fave award in the merge episode thread here. @fishcakes, you even asked if voting was open yet because you wanted to vote for Janet.

Your gaslighting has failed! 😂

There was a discussion, but I'm not sure any of that was actually real.  I asked some questions about how to vote and they never got answered.

[iMonrey]

Quote

IMHO (a) any other “rules” would be immaterial, and (b) I’d be curious to hear who you think has standing to dictate to Sia where she can or can’t gift her own money.

Again . . . this is not about who Sia should or should not give money to. She's free to do whatever the hell she wants. I just don't understand why it's a thing, on this show. Every season now, at the reunion, Jeff has to stand up and say "This is who Sia liked best this season." WTF. She can just send money privately to these people. I barely know who Sia is and only then because she started popping up on this damn show. I don't give a flying red rat's ass who her favorite players are. It seems totally irrelevant to me.

[BonnieD]

Quote

Wouldn't an original recipe, no gimmicks Survivor be better for a bunch of winners?  Let's see who can win without a crutch.

A million times this! An idol now and then is okay. The rest of it can just go away. Nullifier was the worst idea EVER. Too many props and crutches for sure. I'm super excited about this all winner season and hope they don't manage to f**k it up.

I've recently watched a couple of earlier seasons. Just finished the Pirate themed one which Sandra won. Rupert hugged people and ruffled their hair and massaged their shoulders all the damn time. No one seemed to mind. What a different time that was.

I'm torn between thinking Dan is truly slimy. (I can't forget the camera catching him fondling one of the women's ankles as he was lying down and she was standing just in front of him--a quick shot but a clear indication of the sorts of things that probably went on. He sure as hell wouldn't have been stroking a man's ankle that way. However, I doubt he was straight up boob or crotch grabbing.) And thinking maybe he's just a super touchy feely guy like Rupert was....? So hard to judge that kind of thing when you weren't personally there.

Probably an unpopular thought but I do believe women have to be very clear, strong, and assertive when they say I don't like to be touched. Like "Cut it out! I'm not kidding. I don't want to be touched so keep your hands to yourself. I am not a hugger." They showed Kelly asking him to stop touching her hair in that one scene--maybe she could have been more steely about it. Let the dude know you aren't kidding around and he should take your negative reaction very seriously.
 

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, BonnieD said:

I'm torn between thinking Dan is truly slimy. (I can't forget the camera catching him fondling one of the women's ankles as he was lying down and she was standing just in front of him--a quick shot but a clear indication of the sorts of things that probably went on. He sure as hell wouldn't have been stroking a man's ankle that way. However, I doubt he was straight up boob or crotch grabbing.) And thinking maybe he's just a super touchy feely guy like Rupert was....? So hard to judge that kind of thing when you weren't personally there.

Probably an unpopular thought but I do believe women have to be very clear, strong, and assertive when they say I don't like to be touched. Like "Cut it out! I'm not kidding. I don't want to be touched so keep your hands to yourself. I am not a hugger." They showed Kelly asking him to stop touching her hair in that one scene--maybe she could have been more steely about it. Let the dude know you aren't kidding around and he should take your negative reaction very seriously.

Kelley was absolutely clear about it on day fucking one! Sure, she gave him some bullshit about being a germaphobe just so she wouldn't have to feel the wrath she knew he'd have if she'd told the actual truth, but still she told him very clearly that she did not want to be touched.

Dan seems to have never been 'just a touchy feely guy' with any of the men. He never needed to cuddle any of the men for warmth. He never 'accidentally' brushed up against a man. He never used a man to break his fall when he slipped. Hmmm, weird.

[ProfCrash]

1 hour ago, BonnieD said:

A million times this! An idol now and then is okay. The rest of it can just go away. Nullifier was the worst idea EVER. Too many props and crutches for sure. I'm super excited about this all winner season and hope they don't manage to f**k it up.

I've recently watched a couple of earlier seasons. Just finished the Pirate themed one which Sandra won. Rupert hugged people and ruffled their hair and massaged their shoulders all the damn time. No one seemed to mind. What a different time that was.

I'm torn between thinking Dan is truly slimy. (I can't forget the camera catching him fondling one of the women's ankles as he was lying down and she was standing just in front of him--a quick shot but a clear indication of the sorts of things that probably went on. He sure as hell wouldn't have been stroking a man's ankle that way. However, I doubt he was straight up boob or crotch grabbing.) And thinking maybe he's just a super touchy feely guy like Rupert was....? So hard to judge that kind of thing when you weren't personally there.

Probably an unpopular thought but I do believe women have to be very clear, strong, and assertive when they say I don't like to be touched. Like "Cut it out! I'm not kidding. I don't want to be touched so keep your hands to yourself. I am not a hugger." They showed Kelly asking him to stop touching her hair in that one scene--maybe she could have been more steely about it. Let the dude know you aren't kidding around and he should take your negative reaction very seriously.
 

And I would have expected Rupert to stop if someone told him they were uncomfortable with being touched. And if Rupert kept touching someone after they told him to stop I would be annoyed with Rupert and Production.

This is not hard. You stop action X when someone says stop.

This video might help people who are struggling with why Dan’s behavior was inappropriate.

[KaveDweller]

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Again . . . this is not about who Sia should or should not give money to. She's free to do whatever the hell she wants. I just don't understand why it's a thing, on this show. Every season now, at the reunion, Jeff has to stand up and say "This is who Sia liked best this season." WTF. She can just send money privately to these people. I barely know who Sia is and only then because she started popping up on this damn show. I don't give a flying red rat's ass who her favorite players are. It seems totally irrelevant to me.

I think Sia and Jeff are friends.....didn't he mention that in a past reunion? Or maybe they just became friends because of her donations. But I think he likes her and likes announcing it because of that.

Or maybe CBS just thinks it makes them look cool and relevant to have a big pop star be such a fan of the show. So, they want to point it out.

[PupsyDaisy]

@BonnieD said:

Quote

They showed Kelly asking him to stop touching her hair in that one scene--maybe she could have been more steely about it. Let the dude know you aren't kidding around and he should take your negative reaction very seriously.

Yes, in everyday life, I think a strongly worded request would be advisable. However, in Survivor, doing this might end up costing one or more votes, since it might be interpreted by the unwanted toucher as "I didn't mean anything by that, so she's clearly against me". 

I've been in the situation at work where a supervisor at work was a touchy, kissy person, and I felt that if I said anything, it might affect my chances at advancement, so I stayed silent. This wasn't any kind of sexual advance, but there are people I would rather not have touching me, y'know?

I think that Dan was insensitive and oblivious to the times Kellee told him to stop, and she felt that objecting more forcefully might get her ejected from the game. 

[tvgoddess]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

And I would have expected Rupert to stop if someone told him they were uncomfortable with being touched. And if Rupert kept touching someone after they told him to stop I would be annoyed with Rupert and Production.

This is not hard. You stop action X when someone says stop.

This video might help people who are struggling with why Dan’s behavior was inappropriate.

Thank you, this is not only appropriate for Survivor but outside of it as well. I'll be using it whenever I see someone fail to grasp the concept of consent.

On an entirely separate note, I find it hilarious how many people on social media in general fail to spell "Kellee" correctly.

[Rachel RSL]

I’m just dumbfounded that Kellee had a very direct conversation with Dan about not touching her and people are still saying she didn’t do enough or wasn’t clear enough. 

[kaygeeret]

The Tea and Consent video was absolutely brilliant.

I will make sure the pre tee/teens in my life (all genders) see it and we talk.

 

 

[Rt66vintage]

28 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

I’m just dumbfounded that Kellee had a very direct conversation with Dan about not touching her and people are still saying she didn’t do enough or wasn’t clear enough. 

Please rewatch the scene of Kellee talking to Dan on the beach. There's a clip on YouTube titled something like Dan's worst moments. I came away from it smh. She's conciliatory and weak, not direct, very wishy-washy, and she lets Dan interrupt and talk over her. I said earlier I'd like to see how Sandra (or Reem, as someone above mentioned) would've handled Dan.

[Kenzie]

5 hours ago, BonnieD said:

They showed Kelly asking him to stop touching her hair in that one scene--

I thought that was one of his creepiest touches.

At the mere mention of "sand in my hair" he turned instantly towards her and tried to jam his fingers into her hair and scalp. She was only making a comment yet he creepily seized that as an opportunity to touch her.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Kenzie

[Lantern7]

On 12/19/2019 at 1:28 PM, MrsR said:

Amber was a last minute replacement for Sandra who turned out to have parasites from the previous season.

I’m guessing Rupert had those, but they probably died soon afterward.

[SVNBob]

On 12/19/2019 at 1:39 AM, GaT said:

I wonder how Sia determines how much money to give? I realize it's her own money & she can give it or not how she wants, but she gave the black man $15,000 & the 2 white women $100,000.

According to a question in the post-reunion EW interview Dalton Ross did with Peachy specifically about the Sia prizes:

1. Sia wants the people she gives these gifts to to get the entire prize, since she's already paid taxes on them.  And 15k is the largest sum she can give to an individual without there being any taxes on the amount.
2. If she does give more than 15k, she'll suggest to the recipients that they break that sum up into smaller gifts for not only the main recipient, but to other family members as well.  And that's perfectly legal.

So another way to look at it is that Sia gave the bigger prizes to people with known larger families (Elaine, her fiance, her kids from a previous relationship; Janet, her husband, their kid and upcoming grandchild (Remember the pink shirt?  That was a gender reveal I could get behind.), etc.), and the biggest individual prize to someone whom we're unsure about the size of his immediate family (roommate Jack (and possible other roommate Elizabeth) notwithstanding).

 

On 12/19/2019 at 8:18 PM, BigRedCheese said:

She did, she gave Rick Devins 100k, I couldn't stand that guy, but it's her money, and she found him entertaining, so more power to her.

She offered Joe 15k, which he would only accept if she didn't mind if he gave it to charity. She didn't, and he did, that's our Joey Amazing.

She also gave Aurora 15k because she admired her for her experience in the foster care system.

She also gave Davie from DvG a 15k award, and that wasn't mentioned during that season's reunion at all.  Davie tweeted about it after the fact; like a week or so later.  Aurora's gift was also not mentioned at the reunion, as I recall.

I suspect that the reason that all these gifts were mentioned in this particular season was an attempt to get some positivity back into the show, as a counterpoint to the shadow that had been cast over the season.

Edited December 22, 2019 by SVNBob

[simplyme]

15 hours ago, Rt66vintage said:

Please rewatch the scene of Kellee talking to Dan on the beach. There's a clip on YouTube titled something like Dan's worst moments. I came away from it smh. She's conciliatory and weak, not direct, very wishy-washy, and she lets Dan interrupt and talk over her. I said earlier I'd like to see how Sandra (or Reem, as someone above mentioned) would've handled Dan.

Sandra and Reem were both older and moms by the time they were on Survivor. For a lot of women, there's a BIG difference in how much of a rat's ass you give about what other people think of you as you age, and you also learn better how to deal with sexual harassment after it's happened a time or two to you.

[Diana Berry]

On 12/19/2019 at 1:01 AM, Sarah Heart said:

I think they stopped  doing FF on Survivor. I was thrilled  for Elaine,  her face when they told her, made me cry. There are some players  that touch your heart, Elaine  is one such player imho.

Just getting around to watching the reunion.  I think Janet May be a mother type figure for Elaine in the future.  It seems like they’ve gotten close and Janet is really positive and inspiring.

Hoping Elaine comes back in a future season.

[JudyObscure]

On 12/19/2019 at 7:48 PM, iMonrey said:

Well, sure. Sia is free to give money to whoever the hell she wants. But why is it a thing, on this show? What if a whole bunch of other celebrities decided to give money to their favorite players and they ran down the numbers on all of them? Let's see now. Sia liked Jamal and Janet and Elaine and gave them this much money, and Jennifer Aniston liked Dean and Jack and Aaron and gave them this much, and let's see, the Jonas Brothers liked Elaine too and gave her this much, and Tom Hanks really, really liked Karishma and is giving her a million, and Weird Al Yankovic liked Missy and gave her this much, and Dr. Phil really liked Tommy and Lauren and Janet and gave them each this much . . . 

That's my view, too.  Sure Sia can give her money, or none of it, any way she wants but just as the general rule is to never criticize anyone else's charity, the other general rule is to give charity in private.  I think Sia's choices are fine, I'm just not sure I like the show giving her a special televised spotlight to give it in.

 I can't grasp why she's optically wrong to give only $15K to Jamal but okay to give nothing to Aaron or Missy.  Bringing color into it at all, or making philanthropists worry about diversity, or need, is just nuts.  We could end up beating down every gift that wasn't used for starving African children with leprosy.

If I had a spare $100,000 and had to chose a Survivor over say, the homeless, I would  give mine to Jack.   I love Elaine and Janet but I thought Elaine worked her bad luck story a little too hard and I thought Janet was beginning to become a legend in her own mind.

Jack  is just the most humble, loving person ever.  If he didn't need the money he would probably pay it forward.

[BigRedCheese]

Quote

 I think Sia's choices are fine, I'm just not sure I like the show giving her a special televised spotlight to give it in.

 

I enjoy it, but I might still agree with that if it was taking time away from us hearing more from some of the players with less screen time than the final four and the big personalities. But that's not the case, instead we hear from little kids in the audience with a crush on a player, celebrities that don't even watch Survivor, promoting their CBS shows, and all matter of unrelated nonsense. If the 5 minutes or less talking about Sia's gifts means one less moppet or random celebrity promoting a CBS show for Probst to talk to in the audience, then please, give me more Sia.

If you don't like it, don't worry, she'll probably move on to other things before too long. She's not the first celebrity Survivor fan to do this, Rosie O'Donnel used to give out cars in the early years to her favorite players, and then, I think, all of the cast. Not sure what she started watching instead.

[JudyObscure]

The time it takes has nothing to do with it for me.

[Rough Draft]

On 12/19/2019 at 2:16 PM, Bryce Lynch said:

I thought Janet was a heroic figure.  

This can never be emphasized enough.

[Bryce Lynch]

On 12/20/2019 at 5:21 PM, Rachel RSL said:

As a huge fan, like Sia, I don't understand why a random person who has nothing to do with the show takes up time on the official CBS reunion.  She has nothing to do with the show or CBS or Survivor.  She's simply a fan.  Good for her that she's so generous but even Probst said that the Sia Award is a weird part of the show.  

I am not a Sia fan (though I have nothing against her or her music), but I kind of like the idea of a random, celebrity superfan handing out cash at the finale.  I think it adds a bit of much needed cultural relevance to the aging show.

That said, I also like product placement on Survivor (and even more so on TAR) because it means more money is coming in to keep the show on the air.  

 

[Bryce Lynch]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

That's my view, too.  Sure Sia can give her money, or none of it, any way she wants but just as the general rule is to never criticize anyone else's charity, the other general rule is to give charity in private.  I think Sia's choices are fine, I'm just not sure I like the show giving her a special televised spotlight to give it in.

 I can't grasp why she's optically wrong to give only $15K to Jamal but okay to give nothing to Aaron or Missy.  Bringing color into it at all, or making philanthropists worry about diversity, or need, is just nuts.  We could end up beating down every gift that wasn't used for starving African children with leprosy.

If I had a spare $100,000 and had to chose a Survivor over say, the homeless, I would  give mine to Jack.   I love Elaine and Janet but I thought Elaine worked her bad luck story a little too hard and I thought Janet was beginning to become a legend in her own mind.

Jack  is just the most humble, loving person ever.  If he didn't need the money he would probably pay it forward.

Scrutinizing who gives how much to whom has gotten ridiculous.  Earlier this year, there was a story about a 12 year old boy who started a lawn mowing business to pay for college.  The Carolina Panthers saw this, and admiring his work ethic,  arranged to have their head coach present him with a new lawnmower, from Lowe's,  some team gear and make him an honorary member of the grounds crew. 

Soon after, the Panthers and Lowes started getting blasted for "only" giving him that stuff, with people saying they should have paid for his whole college education.   

This sort of nonsense only discourages generosity.  If an individual or company is not willing to commit $200,000 to a person or cause, should they not give $1,000 when it would be very, much appreciated by the recipient?

I liked Jack until I found out he is dating Elizabeth.   

If I was tasked with handing out the Sia money, I'd probably give most of it to Janet for her self sacrificing courage, maybe a little to Elaine and perhaps some to Kellee for what she went through.   

Edited December 23, 2019 by Bryce Lynch

[Whimsy]

Posts that only talked about the episode and did not mention the reunion in any way have been moved to the episode thread.  Please stay on topic of the reunion and things that were discussed in the reunion episode. 

[BigRedCheese]

Quote

The time it takes has nothing to do with it for me.

 

I didn't think it did, my point was more that I would rather see that than the other stuff Probst likes to give time to. 

[nlkm9]

On 12/21/2019 at 10:26 PM, Kenzie said:

I thought that was one of his creepiest touches.

At the mere mention of "sand in my hair" he turned instantly towards her and tried to jam his fingers into her hair and scalp. She was only making a comment yet he creepily seized that as an opportunity to touch her.

yes the hair thing!! gross! im married 37 years and I dont want hubby touching my hair

 

[JudyObscure]

Who want's to touch anyone's greasy scalp?  Did he really think he was going to pick it out for her one grain at a time?  The man needs to go live with monkeys.

[Special K]

16 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

yes the hair thing!! gross! im married 37 years and I dont want hubby touching my hair

 

OMG, you're reminding me of that Chris Rock documentary, "Good Hair."  There's a sequence in it of people describing how their spouses aren't allowed to touch their hair.

I'm a curly head, and, yeah, you better not frizz-out my hard-won curls!

 

[lostmydamnmind]

On 12/19/2019 at 7:31 PM, neece26 said:

I did not enjoy the Kellee interview either.  I get why they felt they had to do it, but as a viewer it really brought down the mood of the usually upbeat reunion show.  Glad they kept it brief.

They did have to do it. I'd argue Dan's behavior and CBS' woefully inadequate response "brought down the mood" of the entire season.

[lostmydamnmind]

On 12/21/2019 at 6:41 PM, PupsyDaisy said:

@BonnieD said:

Yes, in everyday life, I think a strongly worded request would be advisable. However, in Survivor, doing this might end up costing one or more votes, since it might be interpreted by the unwanted toucher as "I didn't mean anything by that, so she's clearly against me". 

I've been in the situation at work where a supervisor at work was a touchy, kissy person, and I felt that if I said anything, it might affect my chances at advancement, so I stayed silent. This wasn't any kind of sexual advance, but there are people I would rather not have touching me, y'know?

I think that Dan was insensitive and oblivious to the times Kellee told him to stop, and she felt that objecting more forcefully might get her ejected from the game. 

Same. Those people I don't want touching me are pretty much anyone I'm not married to or didn't give birth to. 

On 12/22/2019 at 12:00 PM, simplyme said:

Sandra and Reem were both older and moms by the time they were on Survivor. For a lot of women, there's a BIG difference in how much of a rat's ass you give about what other people think of you as you age, and you also learn better how to deal with sexual harassment after it's happened a time or two to you.

Yes. Totally different power dynamic than a much younger woman like Kellee would have with someone like Dan.

[violet and green]

On 12/21/2019 at 6:42 PM, Sarah Heart said:

It could be said, Noura was playing to the cameras  and perhaps Sia, in which case, it didn't work.

Sia isn't about the wackiest, zaniest characters. Sia is about heart.

Hence, Mark the chicken and Tai.

Never give up cheerful dad-bod Rick Devens.

Plucky Elaine.

Brave Janet.

Jamal gently teaching Jack.

(Can't recall any of her other awardees!)

[kassandra8286]

1 hour ago, violet and green said:

Sia isn't about the wackiest, zaniest characters. Sia is about heart.

You made me curious so I looked it up - I believe this list includes the all her awards prior to this season:

Tai - $50,000 to him plus $50,000 to his "choice of animal charity".

Donathan (Ghost Island) - $14,000 (the most at the time she could give tax free)

Davie (DvG) - $14,000

Rick Devins - $100,000

Aurora - $15,000

Joe - $15,000, said he would only accept if Sia would allow him to donate it to a charity (although I don't know how she could have stopped him if that's what he was determined to do)

Notably Wendy, who many thought was playing for Sia money, doesn't appear to have received any. 

 

[violet and green]

1 hour ago, kassandra8286 said:

Donathan (Ghost Island) - $14,000 (the most at the time she could give tax free)

Donathan! How could I forget darling Donathon!

[Rachel RSL]

On 12/24/2019 at 7:05 PM, kassandra8286 said:

Notably Wendy, who many thought was playing for Sia money, doesn't appear to have received any. 

That's because Sia is smart enough to see through a phoney baloney act like hers. ("I must save the chickens!! Then I'll go to Ponderosa and eat a cheeseburger!")

Edited December 31, 2019 by Rachel RSL

[ljenkins782]

On 12/24/2019 at 7:05 PM, kassandra8286 said:

You made me curious so I looked it up - I believe this list includes the all her awards prior to this season:

Tai - $50,000 to him plus $50,000 to his "choice of animal charity".

Donathan (Ghost Island) - $14,000 (the most at the time she could give tax free)

Davie (DvG) - $14,000

Rick Devins - $100,000

Aurora - $15,000

Joe - $15,000, said he would only accept if Sia would allow him to donate it to a charity (although I don't know how she could have stopped him if that's what he was determined to do)

Notably Wendy, who many thought was playing for Sia money, doesn't appear to have received any. 

 

I would have liked to see Donathon get the $100k that Rick Devins/Janet/Elaine got (if taxes are an issue, why could others get $50k/$100k at a shot?), IIRC correctly, he was nursing ill relatives and from a very poor area with few prospects. I know Survivor isn't a charity, but I always like to see people in those circumstances get a shot at some cash. It's less impactful to me when the Brad Culpeppers of the world get to the end, come in 2nd/3rd and get a small chunk of money that probably doesn't impact their lives in any way because they're already wealthy.

The only weirdness about the Sia award this year was the way it was presented, Jamal seemed excited to get the $15k and then clearly fought to keep his face neutral when the other 2 got $100k each right after,  which frankly is just human nature to me. I'd be psyched to get money for nothing, but if 2 other people got WAY more money, also for nothing, I'd secretly be a little bummed (while being aware that I still needed to be grateful for the gift I did get). It'd just be an involuntary feeling.

The Kellee segment was extremely awkward and I guarantee she cringes when she watches it back. It was a poorly structured segment, as many have said. It should have been specific questions that she could answer, not just "hey, here's the stage, talk about whatever..." It's like when you're in a job interview and they simply say "tell me about yourself..." rather than targeted inquiries about your experience or whatever. I know I always freeze up entirely when confronted with a completely open-ended forum like that. 

She's typically very well-spoken and not at a loss for words when conversing WITH people, but a giant stage with a nationwide audience and no real framework? Not surprising that she fumbled her words and didn't end up saying much of anything.

[Prower]

I hadn't watched the last few season, but decided to watch this one when I heard that Sandra would be on it. I just love her gameplay so much. It's a bit by the seat of her pants, but she is great at gathering information, spreading rumors and controlling the other people through her social game in general. And you can't argue with results. She is a two time winner.

Never cared for Boston Rob. Imo he isn't the greatest player. They had to bring him back five whole times and pair him with complete noobs, who were massive fans and thus warshipped him, for him to win in the end. That's not a good track record.

But like I said, really love Sandra. So I was really sad to see how underused both of them were. I mean one visit per episode, and in quite a few episodes there was none (or it was edited out). What the hell? Also what was the point with them sitting in on the tribal councels? I thought maybe they would be put on the jury and get some extra votes. That would have been an interesting twist, but nope, they fucked off the island at final 5 and were never seen again. Lame.

I think TPTB really wanted to have the idols be a surprise for the players, to the point where I think the players weren't allowed to tell their tribes what was really going on the island of the idols (it seems unrealistic that all of them decided to lie on their own volition). But that added basically nothing for us, the viewer. A tighter integration of the idols into the game, at least from the merge onwards, would have made this a lot more interesting.

Otherwise the season was fine I guess. It was a rollercoaster of betrayels, but I don't think there was any stellar gameplay to be found anywhere. I also don't need any of these people back, except maybe Elaine.