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Episode Discussion II: The TFGH


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Culture Check: How can we discuss a character's or actor's appearance without objectifying them? How can we express likes or dislikes and still respect an individual's humanity or be mindful that a character represents a person someone else might relate to or identify with?

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(edited)
6 hours ago, Grinaldi said:

I'm not actually in a hurry to get rid of that many folks. I like the big canvas. Yes, Drew is worthless and Im not sure Sasha and Cody are all that necessary. But Gregory and Cyrus share most of their scenes with Tracy/Alexis or Laura so I'm fine with then sticking around. Jordan can go but I would want her replaced with a more substantial woman of color.

Im wondering if having this many folks helps with the block taping so there are plenty of options available to keep the studio humming without overworking the leads. Days seems to have a similarly large canvas these days

I've thought the cast is in need of serious trimming for a while now, but...if Patrick is that much better, then I may be wrong.  Maybe he can work with this in a way C & D just couldn't.  It's been way too choppy for way too long, but that's already vastly improved!  

Edited by CeChase
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11 hours ago, JMO said:

Hearing Jagger/John ream into Sonny was a wee bit cathartic, and for a moment or two, MB actually gave Sonny a visage of guilt.  But I had to roll my eyes at Ava and Anna, who looked more aghast at the idea that Karen was underage (but anywhere from 1-12 months from being 'of age') than they were at his preying on her vulnerability to get her to strip and lure her into his grasp.  And, of course, more aghast than they have been, right along, at his penchant for smuggling, money laundering and murder.  Well, I guess the latter only applies to Anna.  Ava's got her own history.  

 

 

Right? I mean the underage thing is reallllly bad, but if a man manipulated a 20 something yo woman, by telling her she wanted the things her childhood molester did to her, and plying her with drugs, he would still be the lowest scum on earth to me!  This was a point of aggravation for me in a human trafficking story, IRL.  It was politics so I won't go into the details, but people were trying to die on the hill of "oh she was 18 not 17!"  Excuse me?  I think you are confused!  If the person, male or female, is underage, no consent can legally be given to an adult, period.  But if they are not underage, that doesn't mean there was consent!  OMG I get so aggravated, I could really go off.  But you nailed it.  Like shut up Sonny!  You freaking horrifically manipulated a vulnerable woman and used her childhood sexual trauma to get her to do what you want.  I don't give a crap if she was 50!  

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Twenty to twenty-five years ago, Maurice Benard knew he was one of the "big fish in a small pond" types in daytime. He would give interviews to the magazines and talk about what he hoped would happen for Sonny, and he'd imply that fulfillment of his wishes would make him more likely to renew at the next contract. He was pushing for years to have his own mental-health condition written into his character, before it finally happened in the mid-2000s.  

Nowadays, there are three other soaps rather than ten, he's about to turn 61, and the most significant acting work he's done outside of daytime TV in the last 20 years was a bit part as a soap star (opposite Laura Wright) in a David O. Russell film. I don't know if he has the leverage he once had.

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8 minutes ago, Asp Burger said:

Twenty to twenty-five years ago, Maurice Benard knew he was one of the "big fish in a small pond" types in daytime. He would give interviews to the magazines and talk about what he hoped would happen for Sonny, and he'd imply that fulfillment of his wishes would make him more likely to renew at the next contract. He was pushing for years to have his own mental-health condition written into his character, before it finally happened in the mid-2000s.  

Nowadays, there are three other soaps rather than ten, he's about to turn 61, and the most significant acting work he's done outside of daytime TV in the last 20 years was a bit part as a soap star (opposite Laura Wright) in a David O. Russell film. I don't know if he has the leverage he once had.

Good points.  I'm really hoping he does not.  

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FWIW, someone on Twitter asked him about his thoughts on what’s happening with Sonny/Nina and he replied with something along the lines of he doesn’t dictate storylines and for the sake of his mental health, he stays out of it. It’s quite a change in his response from 2021/2022 where he said that Frank knows what he wants to play before he even has to tell him. I think something has changed recently with either his influence or Frank’s not being allowed to cater to the actor’s whims/asking them what they want to play anymore. I don’t get the impression he was the only one doing it (other actors have made comments in the past couple years that have given me similar pause) but he’s the main one whose never had a problem saying it out loud or trashing SLs he hates. 

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10 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

FWIW, someone on Twitter asked him about his thoughts on what’s happening with Sonny/Nina and he replied with something along the lines of he doesn’t dictate storylines and for the sake of his mental health, he stays out of it. It’s quite a change in his response from 2021/2022 where he said that Frank knows what he wants to play before he even has to tell him. I think something has changed recently with either his influence or Frank’s not being allowed to cater to the actor’s whims/asking them what they want to play anymore. I don’t get the impression he was the only one doing it (other actors have made comments in the past couple years that have given me similar pause) but he’s the main one whose never had a problem saying it out loud or trashing SLs he hates. 

Oh he's for SURE not the only one who has been doing it.  But you're right, he's the most open about it.  That's his ego.  There are one or two others who do the same, but their intelligence outweighs their also-massive-egos, and they keep it on the downlow.   I agree, something has changed.  

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The show may have some 5 years left. So you can whine about your storyline and threaten to leave, or you can shut up and make your money, especially when you have zero prospects outside the role you've been playing for 100 years.

Steve left and the GH studios didn't burst into flame. The show didn't get cancelled. If anything, viewers know that the character is not needed on the canvas.

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10 hours ago, TVbitch said:

I really hope the tears in Anna's eyes listening to John were because she was realizing how deluded she has let herself become about Sonny. ...but then the woman sobs at dog food commercials these days, so who knows!

Anna also sobs uncontrollably at the Bear family in the bathroom tissue ads too.

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15 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

The show may have some 5 years left. So you can whine about your storyline and threaten to leave, or you can shut up and make your money, especially when you have zero prospects outside the role you've been playing for 100 years.

Steve left and the GH studios didn't burst into flame. The show didn't get cancelled. If anything, viewers know that the character is not needed on the canvas.

I also think Sonny’s foray to Nixon Falls and Carly’s jaunt to Jacksonville show that both characters lift very easily out of the canvas despite being the leads. No one is that central to the show 

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1 hour ago, ffwbe said:

It’s quite a change in his response from 2021/2022 where he said that Frank knows what he wants to play before he even has to tell him. I think something has changed recently with either his influence or Frank’s not being allowed to cater to the actor’s whims/asking them what they want to play anymore. 

Or he's just trying to deflect criticism online. Maurice has had no problem bigfooting it when he's unhappy in recent years and then pretending he has no say. If he's lost influence then I'm all for it, but I'll believe it when I see it. And historically whenever it has happened in the last 20 years he's raised a stink and gotten a change.

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14 hours ago, Grinaldi said:

ETA: Having Dante be the causualty today, echoing another of Sonny's most regrettable acts, also does not feel accidental. 

It cracked me up that the previews showed Olivia asking Sonny if he had anything to do with Dante getting shot. Of course he did, Liv. Don't be an idiot.

4 hours ago, sacrebleu said:

Anyone else notice Joss was styled to look even more Carly-like yesterday? The side part really made her look like LW.

Yes! The physical resemblance was rather striking, though the show has always been very good at that sort of casting in general.

4 hours ago, CeChase said:

it's great material for him actually.

I feel like MB at this point in his career isn't all that interested in being creatively challenged. He's sort of like SBu in that respect: Say the lines and get the paycheck, though I think MB tries to put more effort into things, as ineffective as that effort can be.

 

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I loved Jagger laying out exactly what Sonny did to Karen and why that makes him, basically, scum.  But also?  Him blatantly calling out Anna for defending Sonny because she feels guilty about not being there for Robin when Stone was dying.  Direct hit, sir!  

21 minutes ago, PatsyandEddie said:

Oh no, are we going to be blessed with Olivia screeching and saying the rosary again?

I just wanna know which doctor is going to save his life and be treated to a tray of baked ziti?

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1 hour ago, jsbt said:

Or he's just trying to deflect criticism online. Maurice has had no problem bigfooting it when he's unhappy in recent years and then pretending he has no say. If he's lost influence then I'm all for it, but I'll believe it when I see it. And historically whenever it has happened in the last 20 years he's raised a stink and gotten a change.

It just astounds me that he’s been able to dictate story and get what he wants as I don’t think he’s that good of an actor. What with his mumbling and stuttering-the same tics that were on full display when he played Desi Arnaz in that horrid mini-series after he joined this show or right before. 
 

2 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

I really hope the tears in Anna's eyes listening to John were because she was realizing how deluded she has let herself become about Sonny.

 

2 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Anna also sobs uncontrollably at the Bear family in the bathroom tissue ads too.

While I agree Anna has been a watering pot for the past five years or so, or ever since Heinrich showed up, yesterday’s tears were somehow different-there was horror and a ‘why did I not know this?’ disbelief mixed in with the tears and what @TVbitch stated above (typing from my phone and won’t let me combine her post, so copying from @Winston Wolfe’s quoting attributes it as his).

Still, I’m in a wait and see if this makes any difference or not.

But I did 🤣🤣🤣 at Mooby’s DUH face when Jagger took him at his whine to tell Anna and Ava what he did,  and listed each and everything he did to Karen and threw it in his face. Jagger was like the Arc Angel Michael, dropping all those truth bombs.

And I will enjoy it for as long as it lasts.

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MB seems to have a lot of passion for his podcast and SB is no fool. And, honestly, if it’s just about the checks mixed with limited or no options elsewhere, then MB and SB should let the show do what it needs to for it to survive, for however long it has remaining and maybe even somehow experience a renaissance by shifting the focus. 

Actors who make their livings acting are fortunate and the industry is facing a lot of challenges coming off the dual strikes, IATSE maybe striking in summer, consolidations, et cetera. Daytime may not have been the dream they had but it’s made those men nice lives. I will hope they see all the other people involved and don’t get in the way. 

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(edited)
1 hour ago, Cheyanne11 said:

[Wagger] blatantly calling out Anna for defending Sonny because she feels guilty about not being there for Robin when Stone was dying.  Direct hit, sir!  

Other people have railed at Sonny for what he did to Karen—rightly so, and Sonny needs to hear the as often as possible—but the folks who whitewash his thuggish behavior because of Stone are pretty bad. Good for Wagger for giving it to Anna as much as he gave it to Sonny.

Ava's reaction is exactly what I think it should be: Maybe she's a little appalled, but she knows she's done things that are at least as bad, and it behooves her to support Sonny right now for whatever her purposes are.

Edited by dubbel zout
clarity
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(edited)
13 minutes ago, ciarra said:

Actually, the response to, "Dante got shot." should be, "Again?".

Or like when gunmen bust into some event. Everyone acts as if it's the first time it's ever happened. I really want someone to roll their eyes and mutter under their breath: "For fuck's sake. I'm so sick of this!"

It's so silly no one acknowledges that it happens a lot in Port Charles.

Edited by dubbel zout
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1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Or like when gunmen bust into some event. Everyone acts as if it's the first time it's ever happened. I really want someone to roll their eyes and mutter under their breath: "For fuck's sake. I'm so sick of this!"

It's so silly no one acknowledges that it happens a lot in Port Charles.

One of my favorite things about Days was when Susan Banks (Kristen's doppelganger) was allowed to joke about shocking revelations that interrupt every wedding in Salem. I appreciate when soaps do that kind of fourth wall breaking. 

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With all the guns being waved around yesterday I remembered why I stopped watching the show. I hope they chill on the use of guns. I’m not a nervous Nellie but I’ve had enough of guns. The thing I noticed when I watch police shows on bbc is the absence of them and they get the job done. 

Also yesterday was so good with  cates speaking his truth. The fact that he is physically larger than Sonny made it even better. Sonny almost seemed to shrink in his presence. Even when Sonny was trying to make e causes he seemed small and shrunken. 

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I’m seeing major changes in the pacing, the writing and the number of interactions between the characters and I like it.

When it comes to Dante being shot though, I felt nothing. 

SB worked 2 days then had a day off and that’s fine by me. He can have more. I would also be fine with less Sonny and Olivia.

On a more shallow note, Maxie’s look was very on point and Nina’s blouse colour looked fabulous on her.

 

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We've had this job conflict crap already between Lucy and Tracy; I don't need a redux with Nina and Alexis.

Maybe people need to let Maxie live her own life for a change, rather than the one they want her to live. Ugh.

Of course we now have to watch Sonny's pity party over Dante getting shot. And praying, UGH. What I wouldn't give for Cyrus to be in the rafters and tell Sonny in the Voice of God: "You are going to hell, Sonny Corinthos. Stop trying to get me to forgive you."

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11 minutes ago, Desperado said:

Nina’s blouse colour looked fabulous on her.

Personally, I thought it didn't match her skirt.  And I hated Sasha's dress.  Years ago, I went to a wedding where the elderly grandmother of the bride wore almost that exact same dress.  Me no likey!!

11 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Of course we now have to watch Sonny's pity party over Dante getting shot. And praying

Every time he walks into the chapel, I expect to hear thunder and lightning. 

I did find it ironic that Olivia needed to leave the chapel to take Ned's call because you "shouldn't use your phone in the house of the lord".  I'm pretty sure the lord is more pissed at the criminal thug begging him to save yet another person he cares for than whether youre telliing your husband that your son was shot yet again in the presences of your baby daddy.  

Ava and Spinelli's reactions to seeing Jason on their screen was well done.  Sonny however, looked like Ava just asked him the square root of 900998899.  

Joss honey, Anna needs ALL the details.  Stop acting like you're being put upon by giving your statement.  

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3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Of course we now have to watch Sonny's pity party over Dante getting shot. And praying, UGH. What I wouldn't give for Cyrus to be in the rafters and tell Sonny in the Voice of God: "You are going to hell, Sonny Corinthos. Stop trying to get me to forgive you."

"Sonny? This is God. You have got to be kidding me."

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2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Cyrus to be in the rafters and tell Sonny in the Voice of God: "You are going to hell, Sonny Corinthos. Stop trying to get me to forgive you."

Okay who do I have to pay to make this happen?

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New camera angles. Scenes that were longer than 20 seconds? Multiple characters in scenes together? Callbacks/flashback to the past?  A decent build up to an end of show cliffhanger (even though I can't stand Jason)?

The episode didn't suck.

Even worse, I didn't FF once. 

I think I need to lie down now.

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Alexis can just take a seat. ( Or maybe I just have pile-on Nina fatigue)

The paper was bought, the owner hired your boss. That means you have to prove yourself to the boss, not that the boss needs to prove herself to you. 

Her judginess really grated today. She's been working in media for less time than Nina.

Someone on Twitter pointed out that Portia didn't have the stethoscope in her ears when she checked Dante's heart rate... 😆

 

 

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8 minutes ago, sacrebleu said:

Someone on Twitter pointed out that Portia didn't have the stethoscope in her ears when she checked Dante's heart rate... 😆

It was nice that they tried, I guess, but there wasn't much of anything they got right in the hospital room.  And those vitals were.....interesting.

 

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Okay, Anna might be dead to me. She tells Chase it's okay to give her an update on Dante's shooting while Sonny is standing there, then she stands up for Sonny when Olivia goes off on him, literally stepping between Liv and Sonny to assert that Dante was simply shot in the line of duty. I guess yesterday's disgust was fleeting, cuz today she had boo boo tears for Sonny. 

The way they kept zooming in on Dante, I thought for sure he was going to go into the light and see Lulu. That would be fun, but unlike Mike, Curtis, Sonny and a great host of others, I do not want Dante to cross over. 

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50 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

The way they kept zooming in on Dante, I thought for sure he was going to go into the light and see Lulu. That would be fun, but unlike Mike, Curtis, Sonny and a great host of others, I do not want Dante to cross over. 

I know it has been a while but Girl Reporter is not dead. Just in a coma.

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Nina should have shown Alexis the door.   Her boss asks her to meet someone and then she proceeds to debate and judge her in front of new employee? 

Who cares about even Gregory thinks it may have merit.  Nina is boss, do it. Nina doesn't have to sell herself to Alexis. She doesn't have to show her motivation to Alexis.  Drew and Sonny have no business in this conversation, Nina could bring up Alexis's list of crimes too. 

Anna let's Chase debrief in front of Sonny. Then spends more time coddling Sonny. Still ridiculous Anna writing. Surprised she didn't have Joss and Dex debrief in front of him too. 

Chase should have gone with his partner, he is at fault.  Instead of Anna babying Sonny she should be voicing that too. 

Sam didn't really show much emotion there.  

Where's Ned? Kristina? Even Michael?  Someone tell Cody too. 

Jason news out pretty fast.  Spinelli, Ava, Maxie,  Dante and Sonny. 

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A lot of this, if not most of this, is still the old writers.  So we are getting some great stuff, and some old stuff, and it can be choppy and disorientating.  The transition period.  This is what I think anyway.  Yes, the Anna thing is gross, Olivia already apologizing, gross.   I know. 

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I didn't think Anna was coddling Sonny in the least and I didn't have a problem with her debriefing Chase in front of him--her first priority was getting the info about Dante's shooting, heck, she and Chase even asked Joss and Dex questions right then and there as well.  I think her first concern was for Dante and her second concern was for finding the shooter.  Concern for Sonny was a distant third.

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11 hours ago, Artsda said:

Chase should have gone with his partner, he is at fault

Anna told Chase to take Selena and her gang to the station and question them and that Dante would go after the shooter.  Anna is actually in the wrong.  She should have told Chase to go with Dante and that uniform cops could bring Selena in and keep her occupide until Chase got there.  

11 hours ago, Artsda said:

Where's Ned?

Olivia was on the phone with him, telling him what happened.  So everyone else hasn't been told yet.  

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12 hours ago, Artsda said:

Nina should have shown Alexis the door.   Her boss asks her to meet someone and then she proceeds to debate and judge her in front of new employee? 

Yeah, somehow Alexis is under the impression that she and Nina are equals, which, no.  Nina may have said she wants Alexis's input on matters, but NINA is the publisher, end of sentence.  Alexis and her high horse can take several seats with acting like she's above anything.  Given her personal alliances, not to mention using The Invader to help Michael and Willow by doing a hit piece on her new boss?  Shut up, Alexis.

The last scene with the back and forths with Maxie/Spinelli and Ava/Sonny was well done.  I thought Spinelli and Ava's shock was well-played by BA and MW.  Yes, that was me giving BA a compliment.  Don't worry, it probably will never happen again.

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14 hours ago, Artsda said:

Nina should have shown Alexis the door.   Her boss asks her to meet someone and then she proceeds to debate and judge her in front of new employee? 

Well, Nina could have been a lot less manic about it.  And an appointment would have helped, rather than just barging in with the guy, after hours?, no less.

Oh Olivia, please stop apologizing for truth-telling.  There's no takesies-backsies on shooting someone.

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I love the writing for Jagger. Uncompromising as hell. His scenes have been just great, his dialogue pretty tight,

It's too bad they didn't bother trying to flesh out Danny, Rocco, Jake, Scout relationship, or even Dante's relationship with Danny and Rocco. I thought the 5 secs at the end with Rocco and Danny was nice.

I didn't care for the ode to cops dialogue from Jordan. 

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I'm just impressed with how they've been threading the kids and family connections in more and more over the last couple weeks. The Sam scenes with Danny over the last couple weeks, however hamhanded, have been the most I've seen Kelly show up for work in a long while. The Scout birthday party was smart family stuff with a lot of unusual connections we don't often see among the larger social circle, even if it is for another extraneous kid I don't think needs to exist. And now this. It's better late than never for me.

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(edited)

Oh PLEASE DO STFU, you beast! Jason is the opposite of patient? His first impulse is to jump/dive in? No, that would be YOUR narcissistic ass. Which is why Jason had to always save you from yourself. 

And he NEVER worried about hurting himself. She can MISS me and take several gazillion seats for lying to Danny about how similar she and Jason are.

Oh look! Olivia has the rosary she can whip out the moment she needs it. I was fast forwarding her and Sam’s scenes, but did I hear right? She is scairt because of the danger to Dante’s life? This person who was a mob moll and Jason’s ride or die woman? My eyes couldn’t roll hard enough.

3 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I love the writing for Jagger. Uncompromising as hell. His scenes have been just great, his dialogue pretty tight,

Same here! I loved his enthusiasm at realizing who Maxie was but not letting that influence his decision to arrest her ass along with Jar-Jar. 

Ava has got to be playing Mooby. Just the way she was looking at him, as if gauging his response to what she was saying about Jason turning on him.

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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I remain the unchallenged General Hospital Nostradamus. The ancient ones will know I called both Sonny and Emily and Franco and Elizabeth almost a year out. I began suspecting Ava some time ago and soon my portents may yet bear fruit or humiliate me totally. Please, no ostentatious tributes to my already obscene ego; silent admiration is enough.

15 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Ava has got to be playing Mooby. Just the way she was looking at him, as if gauging his response to what she was saying about Jason turning on him.

She has never had a good poker face. There is a reason a friend of mine used to compare her reaction shots in the early 2010s re: A.J., etc. to Jim Carrey's Fire Marshall Bill from In Living Color. But boy does Maura sell it for the camera, lol.

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1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Oh PLEASE DO STFU, you beast! Jason is the opposite of patient? His first impulse is to jump/dive in? No, that would be YOUR narcissistic ass. Which is why Jason had to always save you from yourself. 

And he NEVER worried about hurting himself. She can MISS me and take several gazillion seats for lying to Danny about how similar she and Jason are.
 

I never know how to take scenes like this.  Are we supposed to just see that she is lying?  Or are they actually retconning a character's entire personality? For whose benefit?  Because we all know exactly what Jason is like at this point.  It isn't like they have picked up a lot of brand new viewers in the last 5 years who might fall for that BS.

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"They either have something on him or Jason is working against Sonny!!"

Um, yeah, like there hasn't been brain implantations, memory fuckery, look alikes, twinning shennanigans, and massive amounts of brainwashing that these people are well aware of. I hope to god they make it more compelling than a redux of that. Or that he is just working with the enemy in order to protect Sonny. ...but not gonna wait on the edge of my seat for that. 

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9 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

Or that he is just working with the enemy in order to protect Sonny.

I think that’s fairly obvious. He knocked into the shooter so he couldn’t hit Sonny, then when Dante was shot, he shot the other guy and administered first aid/called for an ambulance for Dante. I I don’t know his motives, but he’s definitely not against Sonny. Because that would be far too interesting and create a sense of intrigue. Both of which are anathema to this show. 

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I honestly vastly prefer what this appears to be (shanghai'ed into service, undercover, whatever) to another brainwashing/microchip caper like the Two Jasons, USB Drew/Franco, Ryan Lavery and the playing cards, etc though. More of that crap was what I was expecting before the writing change; this is not. Here there is some intrigue. And let's face it, there is no way Jason would turn on Sonny at the present time given the state of their relationship before Greece(?) unless he were brainwashed.

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The memory implantations and mind control situations were why I stopped watching GH for a good while, and remain among the reasons why I have so little interest in Jason and Drew.  But I agree that this looks like something different and might be intriguing.  My excitement is dampened by my not liking the characters.

But I do like Jagger/John, and enjoyed his scenes with Maxie and Spinelli.  It's about time somebody on the law enforcement end of things showed some smarts.

I appreciate the longer scenes, and I imagine the actors find them more fun and  rewarding to play.  I liked the individual scenes with Rocco/Laura and Danny/Carly, and I thought that the little demonstration of closeness between the half brothers at the end was lovely.  I wonder if it is setting up strife between them, if Jason is presumed to be the person who shot Dante.  If so, I hope the young men are up to playing it, because it could be quite poignant.  And their relationship would be a good one to carry into GH's future.

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Culture Check: How can we discuss a character's or actor's appearance without objectifying them? How can we express likes or dislikes and still respect an individual's humanity or be mindful that a character represents a person someone else might relate to or identify with?

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