Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[absnow54]

11 minutes ago, Blackie said:

 

I am from Canada so I was under the assumption that if you went to your local state college then it was pretty much free, or pretty cheap. If you wanted to go out of state or to a top school like Harvard or Stanford then it would cost you big $$$. Or foreigners coming in have to pay $$. Maybe I am way wrong.  Either way if Stanford offered Cam a soccer scholarship then PCU would gladly have him on their soccer team I would think. I think he is just working to have extra cash, I think his tuition would be paid. (Laura or Scotty would have paid it anyways)

PCU is a private university, I assume, which is expensive regardless of where you live. If it were SUNY PC (a New York State funded school) it would be more affordable for people who live in state (but still expensive…) Port Charles Community College would be the cheapest, and probably a free option for him, given his family’s income. 

[ljr]

Trina is great. Why doesn't she have a boyfriend? 

Spencer has to work but his dad doesn't?

Why does esme care if joss has sex?

Edited November 6, 2021 by ljr

[ffwbe]

1 hour ago, ljr said:

Spencer has to work but his dad doesn't?

They rarely show it but Nikolas runs Cassadine Industries so he does work. Even as a teen, he was groomed to take it over and was sitting in on board meetings. That was a ongoing theme during the 90s that his whole future was planned out for him and he never had a choice save for that year or 2 where it was thought he was Stefan’s kid. 
 

For whatever reason, the same was never said for Spencer. They portray him as the typical trust fund kid who had no expectations and an endless supply to money until very recently. I don’t know if they ever said why but I figure it’s either because Nikolas wanted him to have the out that he didn’t or that Nikolas was only expected to take over the company so young because Mikkos and Stavros were dead. It was mentioned that Stefan was only a placeholder until Nikolas became of age when they first came to town. 

[YaddaYadda]

11 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

For whatever reason, the same was never said for Spencer. They portray him as the typical trust fund kid who had no expectations and an endless supply to money until very recently. I don’t know if they ever said why but I figure it’s either because Nikolas wanted him to have the out that he didn’t or that Nikolas was only expected to take over the company so young because Mikkos and Stavros were dead. It was mentioned that Stefan was only a placeholder until Nikolas became of age when they first came to town. 

Nikolas was dead for 3 years and Valentin was in charge and he wasn't going to bring on someone who kept telling the world that he murdered his father and stole his birthright from him.

[Evie]

2 hours ago, Blackie said:

 

Believe me I know how much Canadian University tuition is for Canadians but I thought Americans going to their local state college got it pretty cheap, although I would say most kids not that excited about PCU as these 3.

State colleges are not cheap. My niece is a Freshman and it will cost her around $25,000 for the year. Out of state tuition is even more expensive. Local two year community colleges are cheaper.

[DanaK]

14 hours ago, Kiki777 said:

I Googled that Joel Sartore guy they keep talking about and he is an actual wildlife photographer- I love that kind of stuff and wonder if he’s actually coming in the show.

He's a real person and the Photo Ark is a real project, underwritten by National Geographic I think, so it was a blatant plug by Disney, since they stream Nat Geo programs on Disney+. There was a 2 part documentary on it on Nat Geo Wild last year, a PBS doc on it in 2017, and a new season coming up on Disney+. But at the same time, it might be interesting for Trina do a project about it

[ffwbe]

13 minutes ago, DanaK said:

He's a real person and the Photo Ark is a real project, underwritten by National Geographic I think, so it was a blatant plug by Disney, since they stream Nat Geo programs on Disney+. There was a 2 part documentary on it on Nat Geo Wild last year, a PBS doc on it in 2017, and a new season coming up on Disney+. But at the same time, it might be interesting for Trina do a project about it

I figured it was a plug. The dialogue that Trina/Ned/Ava had sounded like an ad

[nilyank]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

Nikolas was dead for 3 years and Valentin was in charge and he wasn't going to bring on someone who kept telling the world that he murdered his father and stole his birthright from him.

True enough, but I wouldn't mine seeing Spencer go work with Valentin at ELQ as I like both actors/characters.

[Artsda]

I want to see Nik and Spencer's face when they find out Valentin's a Cassadine.

So Sonny just gets to walk into Novak's room? No police around.

Lol at Spencer's this is no way to live and asking for advance when he's only worked 2 days. He's horrible and feels no remorse.

Where is Esme supposed to be living? She has no home when Spencer doesn't?

[Cheyanne11]

22 minutes ago, Artsda said:

So Sonny just gets to walk into Novak's room? No police around.

Even if they were, Epiphany would probably run interference, mob apologist that she is.

23 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Where is Esme supposed to be living? She has no home when Spencer doesn't?

Pretty sure she's with Spencer at Kevin's.

[statsgirl]

4 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

Nikolas was dead for 3 years and Valentin was in charge and he wasn't going to bring on someone who kept telling the world that he murdered his father and stole his birthright from him.

Kids of that class don't get jobs in either high school or university, they spend their summers taking art courses in Florence or volunteering at elephant shelters.

Spencer was also a high school student with no usable skills so why would Valentin  hire him? Spencer knows enough to wait tables at Kelly's but he would probably do no better then BLQ when she started to work at ELQ. Not someone you would let loose in the office.

[dubbel zout]

18 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Spencer knows enough to wait tables at Kelly's

Barely.

[racked]

Is Kevin unwilling to pay for a lawyer for Spencer? Has he even asked him? I would imagine Laura would insist he have a decent one. 

[Melgaypet]

17 minutes ago, racked said:

Is Kevin unwilling to pay for a lawyer for Spencer? Has he even asked him?

I would, if I were he. Not my circus, not my monkeys.

I just had a thought, though. Suppose Trina decided to get a lawyer for Spencer and she called... Aunt Gia? That could possibly be interesting.

[Daisy]

  

8 hours ago, perkie1968 said:

As someone, also from Canada, who's currently paying my kid's tuition fees, college in Canada is not free!!  It's not Harvard expensive but it's not free.  

Unless you are from Quebec. then by comparison LOL it might as well be. to be fair it's been ages since i've gone to school so they might have increased the fees, but i was amazed that Uni was about 2K vs. Acadia's whopping 6K+ (and Ontarios 4-5.5K++)

but that's why i was confused by Cam's scholarship to Stanford vs. PCU doing Nothing. I was offered several scholarships to schools, including one great one which gave me a travel stipend (but considering it was literally 24hrs away from Toronto - gotta love Canadian geogaraphy when the school in Ontario is 24 hrs away from your home.. in Ontario)  but when i got accepted to my #1 choice i contacted them and said I wanted to go, but i was offered a scholarship and a stipend. I was offered some bursaries in lieu of the scholarship, and since the school was 1.5 hrs away i didn't even really need the travel stipend. it wasn't the same amount but it did cut costs (and since i was so close to home i saved money). 

so it's hard to imagine that PCU wouldn't do something similar. 

----

In regards to Spencer - i do find it kind of surprising that yeah, they never said. we can have you work at Cassadine Enterprises or wherever, but have him work in the mailroom etc. I don't know many rich rich people, but i do know people who own their own businesses etc, and their kids always worked from ground up int he company. (and then when you read novels etc, they always did some kind of work at the office - before doing fancy dancy vacays etc). but i think they kinda wanna do the whole. "I'm Spencer: Independent" storyline with him, but like i had said yesterday - I think part of the issue i had with Trina's. "who are you, get away from me." speech was sort of like. making him feel ashamed that he was rich. (or a prince etc etc etc). The show has done this a bit lately, like Olivia's rich shaming when she was ranting about Leo being 'perfect."

Spencer shouldn't have to apologise for being rich/affluent (or rather coming from that life. since he's not rich/affluent, his father is). he's paying for his behaviour (as he should). but i mean sooner or later, unless they 100 percent make it that Spencer wants nothing to do with being a Cassadine and have him not save a rich person's dog and become rich (again), he's going to be wealthy again. this is really just a detour for him to basically become...Ned/Dillon maybe a bit BLQ-esque. Rich, you know you are rich, maybe sometimes make a snot comment, but you know the value of hard work and you don't let it define your life (as much as Spencer kinda makes it define him). So when that happens. is Trina still gonna have an attitude of him being wealthy? because again the whole "OMG you're looking down at us,blegh ble." speech kinda rubbed me the wrong way because Spencer never said any of that (in the 2+ days he started working unless i missed something). he was gonna lie to Ava because he needed a good lawyer, not go shopping at Wyndhams or something. Let Ava deal with it.  

Obvy I've never been as rich as Spencer, but I do know what it's like not to have any money suddenly and it's the most horrible, panic inducing feeling in the entire world. And if I knew (when i was in that situation), i could at least get a little money by spinning a tall tale, believe me when I say I would have made it sound so good it would have brought tears to everyone's eyes. Because i was that desperate. Even though this is all because of Spencer's pride and it needs to be broken. i also can sympathize where he is now. 

[Daisy]

23 minutes ago, racked said:

Is Kevin unwilling to pay for a lawyer for Spencer? Has he even asked him? I would imagine Laura would insist he have a decent one. 

It never came up. (just. stay with us, get a job) so I think unless otherwise stated - maybe Spencer is more of that "well. fine i'll do everything myself." and he's realizing that he can't. (he's never worked so he doesn't know how much you get paid (it reminds me of FRIENDS when Rachel is like. "WHO IS THIS FICA GUY AND WHY IS HE TAKING ALL OF MY MONEY?!" ), he knows his public attorney sucks butt because she didn't even know his name. He wants to "protect"/keep esme close"  etc etc. and it's not like Kevin is a fan of Esme.

[ffwbe]

2 hours ago, racked said:

Is Kevin unwilling to pay for a lawyer for Spencer? Has he even asked him? I would imagine Laura would insist he have a decent one. 

I think it’s just a dumb pp. Sonny refused to help him but I doubt Laura would tell Kevin to bail him out but not get him a lawyer. Spencer’s also related to half the town, several of whom have money and would get him a lawyer rather than leave him to the mercy of a public defender. It would have made more sense if everyone thought he was a lost cause and turned his back on him but they all appear to be blaming Nikolas for it. 

[Ambrosefolly]

As someone that was diagnosed with autism late in life after telling my parents for decades that something was off with me, I am pissed at Olivia's behavior as I still resent my own parents for not sending me to a specialist to get tested while I was still in school, so I could have received help with social and educational difficulties. It takes only a few hours to get tested. I don't know what her f*cking problem is. 

2 hours ago, Daisy said:

In regards to Spencer - i do find it kind of surprising that yeah, they never said. we can have you work at Cassadine Enterprises or wherever, but have him work in the mailroom etc. I don't know many rich rich people, but i do know people who own their own businesses etc, and their kids always worked from ground up int he company. (and then when you read novels etc, they always did some kind of work at the office - before doing fancy dancy vacays etc). but i think they kinda wanna do the whole. "I'm Spencer: Independent" storyline with him, but like i had said yesterday - I think part of the issue i had with Trina's. "who are you, get away from me." speech was sort of like. making him feel ashamed that he was rich. (or a prince etc etc etc). The show has done this a bit lately, like Olivia's rich shaming when she was ranting about Leo being 'perfect."

Spencer shouldn't have to apologise for being rich/affluent (or rather coming from that life. since he's not rich/affluent, his father is). he's paying for his behaviour (as he should). but i mean sooner or later, unless they 100 percent make it that Spencer wants nothing to do with being a Cassadine and have him not save a rich person's dog and become rich (again), he's going to be wealthy again. this is really just a detour for him to basically become...Ned/Dillon maybe a bit BLQ-esque. Rich, you know you are rich, maybe sometimes make a snot comment, but you know the value of hard work and you don't let it define your life (as much as Spencer kinda makes it define him). So when that happens. is Trina still gonna have an attitude of him being wealthy? because again the whole "OMG you're looking down at us,blegh ble." speech kinda rubbed me the wrong way because Spencer never said any of that (in the 2+ days he started working unless i missed something). he was gonna lie to Ava because he needed a good lawyer, not go shopping at Wyndhams or something. Let Ava deal with it.  

Obvy I've never been as rich as Spencer, but I do know what it's like not to have any money suddenly and it's the most horrible, panic inducing feeling in the entire world. And if I knew (when i was in that situation), i could at least get a little money by spinning a tall tale, believe me when I say I would have made it sound so good it would have brought tears to everyone's eyes. Because i was that desperate. Even though this is all because of Spencer's pride and it needs to be broken. i also can sympathize where he is now. 

I know that some people loved Trina dressing down of Spencer, but she is only two steps below Josslyn when it comes to material privilege. Her mother is a doctor, her dad is a cop, both of whom seem involved in her upbringing and she now what looks like a pretty cushy job at an art gallery at 18 years old. If sh*t hit the fan, her mother not only would help her out, but could help her out. 

Here is my question, does the audience prefer this spoiled shit stirrer because he causes drama, or would they prefer the well mannered child when Nicholas Bechtal first came on board, before FV & RC decided to turn him into a total brat. 

[statsgirl]

 

4 hours ago, Daisy said:

i do find it kind of surprising that yeah, they never said. we can have you work at Cassadine Enterprises or wherever, but have him work in the mailroom etc. I don't know many rich rich people, but i do know people who own their own businesses etc, and their kids always worked from ground up int he company.

I think that depends on the parent. I knew a private hospital run by two doctors back when there were private hospitals in Ontario, and all of us kids of people who worked there or were related worked there in the summers to earn money for tuition. One day it occurred to me that the only college students who weren't working there were the children of the two doctors who owned the hospital. They were spending summers taking a Cordon Bleu cooking class in Paris or travelling around the world because there was no need for them to earn the money for college.

Look at Joss. She could be working at the Metro Court as a waitress (horrors!) or an admin assistant, learning the basics of corporate wheeling and dealing from her father or working at Perks like Kristina. But it's never crossed Joss' mind or that of any of her parents that she should actually work part time or in the last summer.

[racked]

2 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

As someone that was diagnosed with autism late in life after telling my parents for decades that something was off with me, I am pissed at Olivia's behavior as I still resent my own parents for not sending me to a specialist to get tested while I was still in school, so I could have received help with social and educational difficulties. It takes only a few hours to get tested. I don't know what her f*cking problem is. 

I know that some people loved Trina dressing down of Spencer, but she is only two steps below Josslyn when it comes to material privilege. Her mother is a doctor, her dad is a cop, both of whom seem involved in her upbringing and she now what looks like a pretty cushy job at an art gallery at 18 years old. If sh*t hit the fan, her mother not only would help her out, but could help her out. 

Here is my question, does the audience prefer this spoiled shit stirrer because he causes drama, or would they prefer the well mannered child when Nicholas Bechtal first came on board, before FV & RC decided to turn him into a total brat. 

I don’t know why it matters that Trina was raised without financial difficulty. She’s not someone who looks down on working and if she had to work - if something happened to her parents and she has no other means to get by - she would do it without complaint. Moreover, she was telling Spencer what to do in order to make up for his past transgressions. He specifically asked her to tell him, so why are people taking issue with that? She was harsh, yes, but Spencer had also just complained about not having money for him and Esme to have their own place together so I think some of her tone was about that. 

I really did not like precocious child Spencer or any of those storylines. I think Nick Chavez is doing a great job and giving him layers and I don’t mind seeing his struggle from spoiled angry kid to someone trying to find his place in the world. He’s going to the farthest extremes, idolizing and desperately wanting his father all to himself, to hating him and cutting him out. But that won’t last forever, so as long as the character gets to grow, I’m in. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by racked

[Suicidy]

2 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

As someone that was diagnosed with autism late in life after telling my parents for decades that something was off with me, I am pissed at Olivia's behavior as I still resent my own parents for not sending me to a specialist to get tested while I was still in school, so I could have received help with social and educational difficulties. It takes only a few hours to get tested. I don't know what her f*cking problem is. 

I know that some people loved Trina dressing down of Spencer, but she is only two steps below Josslyn when it comes to material privilege. Her mother is a doctor, her dad is a cop, both of whom seem involved in her upbringing and she now what looks like a pretty cushy job at an art gallery at 18 years old. If sh*t hit the fan, her mother not only would help her out, but could help her out. 

Here is my question, does the audience prefer this spoiled shit stirrer because he causes drama, or would they prefer the well mannered child when Nicholas Bechtal first came on board, before FV & RC decided to turn him into a total brat. 

I have a high functioning version of Asperger’s myself.  I like to think that we’re an interim step in human neurological  evolution.  Normies just don’t understand.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Suicidy

[methodwriter85]

4 minutes ago, racked said:

I think Nick Chavez is doing a great job and giving him layers and I don’t mind seeing his struggle from spoiled angry kid to someone trying to find his place in the world. He’s going to the farthest extremes, idolizing and desperately wanting his father all to himself, to hating him and cutting him out. But that won’t last forever, so as long as the character gets to grow, I’m in. 

I think he's doing a great job at making this Spencer feel like a logical extension of the NB Spencer, but at the same time allowing this Spencer to feel like there's some layers here.

[Ambrosefolly]

23 minutes ago, racked said:

I don’t know why it matters that Trina was raised without financial difficulty. She’s not someone who looks down on working and if she had to work - if something happened to her parents and she has no other means to get by - she would do it without complaint. Moreover, she was telling Spencer what to do in order to make up for his past transgressions. He specifically asked her to tell him, so why are people taking issue with that? She was harsh, yes, but Spencer had also just complained about not having money for him and Esme to have their own place together so I think some of her tone was about that. 

I really did not like precocious child Spencer or any of those storylines. I think Nick Chavez is doing a great job and giving him layers and I don’t mind seeing his struggle from spoiled angry kid to someone trying to find his place in the world. He’s going to the farthest extremes, idolizing and desperately wanting his father all to himself, to hating him and cutting him out. But that won’t last forever, so as long as the character gets to grow, I’m in. 

If something happened to her parents, she would probably get a sizable inheritance, unless Portia really bad with money (hopefully all of the med school debt is paid off). It wouldn't be enough to never work again, but enough that she wouldn't be pulling her hair out trying to support herself and get through school. 

That would be, if the show ran with any internal logic, and it doesn't. It runs on even less logic than Guza's tenure. Spencer doesn't track as a character. No fucking way would Laura allow him to be this spoiled, not even in boarding school. Even TC's Nik & Helena were getting fed up with his bratty behavior. When JB's Lulu returned, she tracked as a character (well, until she had her lips firmly glued to Carly's ass). Even when she became best buds with Carly (despite the fact she had defacto kidnapped Spencer) her stealing Dillon away from Georgie, made sense with her life and the "Luke and Laura" legend. 

The show has to stop completely relying on the actors to give certain actors the inner emotional life. I remember with Lucas when FV mocked the audience when people complained he was spending time Julian Jerome, off-screen. They are giving Spencer the Morgan treatment and not modeling him more on pre-Guza AJ.  On Chucky, Lexy is an out and out bitch with little self awareness, but they give scenes of her parents' low key emotional neglect and abuse to make her somewhat sympathetic, if not likable. 

[FilmTVGeek80]

2 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

If something happened to her parents, she would probably get a sizable inheritance, unless Portia really bad with money (hopefully all of the med school debt is paid off). It wouldn't be enough to never work again, but enough that she wouldn't be pulling her hair out trying to support herself and get through school. 

I don't know anyone who gets, a sizable inheritance, other than rich people like the Qs and the Cassadines. I think Trina would get something if Marcus and Portia had a will, and maybe some life insurance, but that's about it. But like racked said that's not really the point. Trina is not like Joss, who thinks she doesn't have to work just because her parents have well-paying jobs or looks down on less fortunate people, or never thinks about them, like Spencer has most of his life. I thought Spencer earned that smackdown from Trina just based on his whining about not making enough to live on. He's been on his own for a few days and is whining about them, and I don't think it ever occurred to him, that even now, he is much more well off than most people.

[Daisy]

3 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I don't think it ever occurred to him, that even now, he is much more well off than most people.

As of right now, is he? He's living off a two day paycheque (which since i only worked in food industry for a day before i had had enough lol, i'm not sure if it's like most businesses where you have a hold on your first paycheque until threeish weeks later). The show (as of yet) has not stipulated everything that Kevin and off screen Laura has demanded. Maybe he has X weeks to find a place to live. he does need to find a better lawyer. I honestly don't remember anyone saying "we'll help you get a lawyer."  - as Spencer keeps stressing I have to find a better lawyer. which is telling me as of now, he's still stuck with that public defender who didn't know him or his case. 

Even if he managed to snow Ava (or let's just say  he went to her legitimate like. "i still don't really approve, but i'm trying. i don't know if i'll get there." because we know Ava wouldn't put up with crap) I don't think Ava would snow him with money (or she could even say no, until she felt he was truly sincere). 

He has Sonny - who basically said I don't really care, just don't use my daughter next time and isn't helping him. Kevin and offscreen Laura  - that right now is just providing bail (and potentially a temporary place to live). Alexis is in jail, and there is a Grand Canyon chasm between his father and him, and I think he knows deep down Esme isn't there for Spencer the person. 
 

3 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I thought Spencer earned that smackdown from Trina just based on his whining about not making enough to live on.

Like i said - maybe this is me remembering a time where things were extremely difficult for me financially (that's putting it very mildly), but as I've said i think hands down one of the most scariest feelings in the world is feeling like you have nothing. I don't really think he feels secure anymore. (i think another huge part of that is the whole Hayden getting shot thing too, so like before Spencer kinda always knew he had Nik, but even before the whole "I'm not a Cassadine speech." his world got obliterated when he realized Nik had Hayden shot. (another mother figure he actually liked and disappeared on him way too soon).)

That's just a long winded way of saying- i personally don't see it as whinging. He was stating facts. he doesn't have the money. He never said. "it's been two days I can't do this anymore," nor did i get the impression if he got the money he'd stop working. But as of right now. Spencer has no sense of security. He doesn't have a good lawyer. He doesn't have a place to stay. (again i'm putting this on the show for not making it clearer if Kevin/offscreen Laura is saying he needs to truly stand on his own two feet so he needs to find a place ASAP). He's in a situation he's never been in before. (yes 100 percent because of Spencer's own actions) but it doesn't change the fact that it's a scary feeling, and I think saying it - especially when someone asks you why -  doesn't really equal whinging.

[drtslim]

Quote

I don’t know why it matters that Trina was raised without financial difficulty. She’s not someone who looks down on working and if she had to work - if something happened to her parents and she has no other means to get by - she would do it without complaint. Moreover, she was telling Spencer what to do in order to make up for his past transgressions. He specifically asked her to tell him, so why are people taking issue with that? She was harsh, yes, but Spencer had also just complained about not having money for him and Esme to have their own place together so I think some of her tone was about that. 

 

I agree with the last part.  What really set Trina off was Spencer complaining about needing money to get a place for him and Esme to have alone time and be able to go out to eat.  That was really tone deaf of him considering that she basically admitted to having feelings for him earlier in the week.  She was of course upset about what she perceived as him lying, both about tring to make a way for himself and trying to deceive Ava into believing that he'd accepted her for access to his money.  I thought that SM and NC did a fantastic job in all of their scenes this week, especially on Friday.  All of this angst and intensity between two "friends" is really great to watch.

[TheMediaHo]

It occurred to me that Crystal must get paid more than Moss or Tulips because…hazard pay. (“Crystal Rocks Glass met his maker last night. Crystal Highball now entitled to his death benefits.”)

[nilyank]

I wanted to mention about that I was apalled at Nik and Ava smugly thinking that Spencer would come crawling back to accept their terms. Not because Spencer was apologetic about his actions and trying to fix his relationship with his father.  No, they think that Spencer would rather have easy access to his money rather than standing on his own two feet and trying to figure what he needs to do next. They were anticipating that he would fail. Why would they want to have the weaker version of Spencer. 

This whole experience will actually be good for Spencer. When Spencer renounced being a Cassadine and Nikolas' son, he first told Nikolas that he was happy that he had Ava in his life but he was going to move forward on his own.

This is pretty much similar to when Nikolas rejected being a Cassadine and rejected Stefan (the only real father he had known) around the same age as Spencer is now. It would be nice if Lucky was around to remind Nikolas of this because I think that is when the brother got closer as Lucky helped guide during this time.

[dubbel zout]

18 hours ago, Daisy said:

that's why i was confused by Cam's scholarship to Stanford vs. PCU doing Nothing

As mentioned earlier, Cam for a while had a soccer scholarship to Stanford, which was why he was getting the free ride there. PCU didn't offer him scholarship, and it doesn't have to if it doesn't want to. I don't mean that to be snotty, just that it's not always a comparable situation with different schools. The main reason he stayed in PC was (besides the dumb plot point of keeping him with the other teens) because of Franco. Elizabeth told Cam Franco would want him to go to Stanford, but, plot point.

The thing with Spencer's situation is that he's not really broke. At any time he can apologize to Ava and get back in her graces, and presto! Money restored. Maybe not with the same abandon as when Ava wasn't in charge, but Spencer will hardly be scraping for necessities. These stories always annoy me, because there's no way anyone is going to let Spencer starve. Of course, Nik should have insisted Spencer get a job as soon as he realized Spencer was in town, but Nik is hopeless as a father. As are the rest of the parental figures in Spencer's life, save for maybe Ava and, to a less extent, Kevin. I cut them more slack with Spencer because they're in-laws, and it's not their place to take the lead.

[Cheyanne11]

12 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

12 hours ago, racked said:

I think Nick Chavez is doing a great job and giving him layers and I don’t mind seeing his struggle from spoiled angry kid to someone trying to find his place in the world. He’s going to the farthest extremes, idolizing and desperately wanting his father all to himself, to hating him and cutting him out. But that won’t last forever, so as long as the character gets to grow, I’m in. 

I think he's doing a great job at making this Spencer feel like a logical extension of the NB Spencer, but at the same time allowing this Spencer to feel like there's some layers here.

He's really impressive.  And his learning curve was short, as after a first few rocky days, he settled right in. 

[dubbel zout]

15 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I don't know what her f*cking problem is. 

Deep down she knows something needs attention, but she doesn't want to admit it. It's willful blindness.

15 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Here is my question, does the audience prefer this spoiled shit stirrer because he causes drama, or would they prefer the well mannered child when Nicholas Bechtal first came on board, before FV & RC decided to turn him into a total brat. 

I'd like to see him evolve. He can still have moments of being a spoiled, entitled little turd, but I'd like to see him try to be better than what he thinks his family is. That's more interesting that watch him whine about Ava controlling his gobs of money, which is kind of gross when you think about it. (The whining about all that money, I mean.) And get him into stories that are more interesting than hating the adults in his life. The teens are at a tricky age story-wise, but stick them in a caper. Have them figure out what's going on with Esmé and Ryan. 

4 hours ago, Daisy said:

he does need to find a better lawyer.

Depending on how they want the story to go, Scott would probably represent Spencer as a favor to Laura, though Scott these days is a pretty terrible lawyer. When Liesl called him a shark a while back, I thought, "Oh, girl, you are under the sex haze right now. Scott Baldwin is no shark."

[nilyank]

11 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Depending on how they want the story to go, Scott would probably represent Spencer as a favor to Laura, though Scott these days is a pretty terrible lawyer. When Liesl called him a shark a while back, I thought, "Oh, girl, you are under the sex haze right now. Scott Baldwin is no shark."

Laura is related to Martin with whom she has spent the past few month in witness protection. I could see him easily taking the case.

Edited November 7, 2021 by nilyank

[Melgaypet]

10 minutes ago, nilyank said:

Laura is related to Martin with whom she has spent the past few month in witness protection. I could see him easily taking the case.

Man, I still want Gia. I'm not sure why, since I wasn't all that into her 20 years ago. Maybe she comes to town to investigate on her brother's behalf (Taggert's still in hiding from Cyrus, yes?). Trina could rope her in as Spencer's lawyer, which would bounce her off Nikolas and Ava. She could maybe get involved with Curtis. Or Ned, once he's had his fill of Olivia's shrieking. Or become Deception's corporate counsel. Who knows? She could do lots of things. I'm picturing this glamorous, fashionista legal shark played by someone like Sherri Saum.

 

[statsgirl]

 

1 hour ago, nilyank said:

No, they think that Spencer would rather have easy access to his money rather than standing on his own two feet and trying to figure what he needs to do next. They were anticipating that he would fail. Why would they want to have the weaker version of Spencer.

They don't necessarily want a weaker version of Spencer but the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviours and Spencer has always loved and counted on the good life.

48 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

The thing with Spencer's situation is that he's not really broke. At any time he can apologize to Ava and get back in her graces, and presto! Money restored. Maybe not with the same abandon as when Ava wasn't in charge, but Spencer will hardly be scraping for necessities. These stories always annoy me, because there's no way anyone is going to let Spencer starve.

Exactly.  Spencer may be in a scary position but he needs to be even more scared because he's not really changing his thinking or his behaviour yet.

Spencer may only have 2 days cash in his hand but he's not going to be out on the street.  Kevin will let him stay in their apartment as long as he has a job and he's got free food there and probably at Kelly's. If Kevin does kick him out, I'm sure that there is a bedroom at Great Aunt Alexis' with Molly, TJ and Shawn. And even though Sonny is mildly reproving about his manipulation of Avery, Sonny wouldn't let him starve on the streets either (although they both would let Ava starve).  A little asking and Sonny would hire Diane for him (if Laura didn't arrange Scott or Martin) if only to slap Ava and Nik in the face. And it seems like Spencer knows it, at least unconsciously.

I don't think that people necessarily have to hit rock bottom but they do have to go low enough to change and Spencer is nowhere near that yet. His big 'I want nothing to do with you and I renounce my Cassidine heritage" speech shows that. So does thinking that it's okay to walk out of Kelly's in the middle of his shift because he wanted to confront Nik.

And therein lies the problem. Spencer still has too much support (Laura and Kevin are the worst but Sonny and Alexis are there too) to take a hard look at himself and make the changes that he needs to in order to be the person that he thinks he is.

17 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

 It takes only a few hours to get tested. I don't know what her f*cking problem is. 

Culture, and possibly stigma. In her culture where everything is solved by a big pan of ziti or a homemade pizza. the idea that her child has a mental problem is anathema.

As well, Olivia raised Dante on her own, a teenager trying to make ends meet and finding her way as best she can. She probably resents the idea that here she is an adult, married and with all this money and there's a problem?

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

She probably resents the idea that here she is an adult, married and with all this money and there's a problem?

Leo is Julian's son, so eventually it will be all his fault.

[statsgirl]

I understand why Laura is offering Spencer a place to stay but is Esme there too? Won't her trustees give her money to live on? Are Spencer and Esme treating it like a free hotel?

17 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Leo is Julian's son, so eventually it will be all his fault.

Maybe. But Olivia's uncle was an idiosyncratic artist so they might talk about the heredity connection.

[YaddaYadda]

44 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I understand why Laura is offering Spencer a place to stay but is Esme there too? Won't her trustees give her money to live on? Are Spencer and Esme treating it like a free hotel?

Yes, she apparently is. And I'm sure Esme has no money to speak of. And she is hellbent on that weekend getaway that neither she nor her boyfriend can pay for too. 

I won't be getting over this one anytime soon.

[Melgaypet]

53 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Won't her trustees give her money to live on?

Personally, I think Esme's trust fund is a lie.

[Gam2]

Every time I see Esme, I know that she’s the ultimate grifter. If she was at boarding school with “Spence”, they’re both in on this scam. I wouldn’t trust her to cross the street in front of me.

[hcs]

23 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

As someone that was diagnosed with autism late in life after telling my parents for decades that something was off with me, I am pissed at Olivia's behavior as I still resent my own parents for not sending me to a specialist to get tested while I was still in school, so I could have received help with social and educational difficulties. It takes only a few hours to get tested. I don't know what her f*cking problem is.

This is Olivia who actually thought that Dante's PTSD was nothing and could be cured by his Mama's hugs  

[Melgaypet]

I don't think Spencer knows everything about... whatever Esme's deal is, but I would think he has to know something. Probably she's playing him to some degree, as well.

Grifter and a psycho, that's my read.

[Suicidy]

1 hour ago, Melgaypet said:

I don't think Spencer knows everything about... whatever Esme's deal is, but I would think he has to know something. Probably she's playing him to some degree, as well.

Grifter and a psycho, that's my read.

Why is she always wearing tennis shoes?

[ffwbe]

3 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

Personally, I think Esme's trust fund is a lie.

Since she obviously knows Ryan, I’m guessing we’ll find out later on that she isn’t who she said she was and intentionally found and got close to Spencer as part of this revenge plot. We know Ryan tried to reach out to Spencer but was unsuccessful so this was probably plan B. 

[dubbel zout]

12 hours ago, Suicidy said:

Why is she always wearing tennis shoes?

I wonder if it's a height/blocking thing? Though Trina is the only short one of the teens. Or maybe she decided she's not going to be Kelly Monaco and wear six-inch stiletto booties all day. I can only applaud that.

[ByaNose]

14 hours ago, Suicidy said:

Why is she always wearing tennis shoes?

Thank god someone else asked this. I thought it was just me. I guess it’s either a fashion thing or a height blocking issue like someone had mentioned. It is funny that I noticed it but they always seem to do wide shots of her which I always thought was odd. Thus me noticing the white tennis shoes. At least, mix up the color of them. They look comfortable and I’m sure she thrilled to be able to wear them for comfort alone. It’s a long day on those sets

[30 Helens]

On 11/6/2021 at 7:50 PM, Ambrosefolly said:

As someone that was diagnosed with autism late in life after telling my parents for decades that something was off with me, I am pissed at Olivia's behavior as I still resent my own parents for not sending me to a specialist to get tested while I was still in school, so I could have received help with social and educational difficulties. It takes only a few hours to get tested. I don't know what her f*cking problem is. 

I have no personal experience with autism, but I am also annoyed by the response of the other characters. While urging Olivia to allow testing, they need to do a better job of correcting her belief that autism=abnormal/ scary. She is acting like Leo will grow three heads and a tail if diagnosed, and they’re pretty much letting her get away with that shit.

[dubbel zout]

Ned and Austin have both pushed back pretty strongly against labeling Leo as abnormal, but Olivia is sticking her fingers in her ears and singing "lalalalalala" as loudly as she can. 

[Melgaypet]

I have never been formally diagnosed, but I do believe I have some sort of autism. The more I learn about it, the stronger the feeling of "ohhhh, THIS is familiar." I wish I had been tested as a child. Olivia's behavior is offensive to me.

[dubbel zout]

3 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

Olivia's behavior is offensive to me.

It really is. I get she's scared, but to be so selfish as to ignore what a bunch of people are telling you simply because you don't like and don't want to hear it is reprehensible. That's being a terrible advocate for your kid. You know if the shoe were on the other foot she'd be haranguing that poor person to see a specialist. 

There's SO much more information today about learning differences. They are also pretty common, so it's not as if this will come as some huge mystery to the professionals.

Olivia really needs to have a calm, nonjudgemental conversation with someone where she admits she's terrified about Leo. That would go a way to making her decision to do nothing more understandable. At least it puts voice to her feelings, whereas now she just sounds like a jerk.

[Daisy]

Today's Notes
 

So Sonny never realized he needed to prioritize his wife before Nixon Falls? But now he does. What a dreamboat. 

i'm tired of this stupid cabin crap. end it. Lots of "we never had sex" commentary. Esme found out Spencer shoved the money in Nik's face and her face was classic. Cam thinks Trina gave the stupidest advice in the world and go back and apologise. Esme is like. oh no, I agree with Trina. (lol ahuh)

Alexis looks sad that she's leaving jail. Sam is all "pft. i know you work here so are you FRIENDS with my mom?" with Bitch face. shut up. Also shut up Alexis. She's all "Nik wouldn't give me my pardon if i didn't do his bidding." *snark face*.  I'm over Sam and Alexis.

Nik tells them that Spencer wants nothing to do with him and Sam laughs at this. cow. Alexis is very high and mighty. screw you people. Nik basically says the same and goes "despite what you think, i know you hate me and i'm not gonna cancel your pardon like you think i'm gonna." Now that Sam is gone, Alexis is all friendly to Harmony. She should have done that in front of Sam. 

Peter. geeze. Brit has no time for him.

Jason yelled something at Drew and he woke up. and he's Drew not Peter's puppet. Jason info dumps everything. Drew is like why didn't you shoot me and then Peter. (GOOD QUESTION). jason is like. your family? (like you care about them, Jason). 

Remember when Ms Woo was awesome and was gonna kill Carly and all? I miss that Ms Woo. how can Sonny give 1/2 of something he doesn't have yet. geeze. hehehehehe. Ms Woo is all "let me call in my favour." Sonny is all like whose your nephew, and Ms woo is like. "Brad." Sonny has an OH CRAP look on his face. teheee. Sonny is like no. i can't do it. Brad hurt too many people. (shut up) Ms Woo is pissed. They work out a deal kinda. 

Carly is still turned on by "business mode"Carly and is okay not being in charge (such lies). Dianne is like. Nina did too much to you I could do a huge lawsuit and she'd have no money. (Oh god. AM I SUPPOSED TO FEEL SORRY FOR THESE PEOPLE?! They are all like we can do stuff to get around Sonny. Let's get Nina! Carly's like i WANNA BUT WE CAN'T BUT NINA SHOULD PAY!" honestly i wish that carly would file a civil lawsuit on Nina. Then Nina should clap Carly back with said lawsuit FOR HOLDING THE FACT THAT NELLE DIED, AND WAS NINA'S DAUGHTER AND WOULD DO IT FOREVER BECAUSE NELLE WAS PSYCHO. her words. Stupid cow). 

now smoke blowing up Michael's butt. (He'd be a great lawyer apparently. just like he'd be a great everything else). Carly says she can't run to her pet dog anymore, "because I can't, and Nina stole that from me too." boo hoo. 

Peter: you WILL kill someone (to Drew). 
Me: OOH! OOH!!!!! PETER?! (Or Jason. I'm not picky).