S03.E04: Bubbikins

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Left without a home by a political coup in Athens, Philip's eccentric mother, Princess Alice of Greece, is invited to live in Buckingham Palace by the Queen.

Dropping on Netflix on Sunday, November 17, 2019.

[Helena Dax]

I'm curious about  the real story behind this episode. Didn't know princess Anne was so smart and sensible.

[swanpride]

Well, she does have the image of being down to earth...if you define "down to earth" as really enjoying riding and fox hunting. I guess Anne kind of lucked out in that she pretty much could enjoy the life she wanted.

[Brn2bwild]

An okay episode.  I don't understand why Charles wasn't included -- could they not get the actor until Episode 6?  Especially since the documentary was supposed to be modeled on the one from 1969 that featured him prominently. 

[leighdear]

Charles was in school in Australia in 1966, according to his bios, then headed to Cambridge in 1967.  

I was irritated at Anne for pulling that substitution stunt until Phillip started reading the article.  I like that it was called a love letter.  Alice was a great character, though short-lived. 

[swanpride]

Well, he wanted the most humble member of the family….

I had a hard time imagining the people from the Guardian reading to each other their articles and cheering about it.

[Umbelina]

It's odd, I found this episode problematic, but I also think I might like it very much when I watch it again.

So, anyone have a link to that documentary, or was it thoroughly buried?

My mind kept wandering throughout this one.  I had to keep rewinding to try and keep up, and I honestly felt a bit bored at several places.

The ending was nice, the tension when the reporter found Philip's mother, and then of course, the end result of that, the only favorable press the Royal Family got during Philip's misguided campaign, and that final walk in the garden was touching.

Now I do want to know more about his mother after all, and I can say, I honestly didn't think that would happen.  Actually, I'd like to know more about his family being thrown out, and the orange crate, just all of it.  Previous episodes have certainly gone into that several times, but they never sparked that interest for me.

To it's credit?  This one did.

[Mindthinkr]

I missed having a follow up at the end of what became of Princess Alice. 

[Ellaria]

Prior to this episode, I was under the impression that the documentary was generally well received. I know that it has never been shown in its entirety again.

Princess Alice led an interesting life. I’m glad that the show devoted time for her. Philip is a complex man and this episode certainly highlighted it. Tobias Menzies continues to provide a brilliantly nuanced portrayal of Philip. 

Love the introduction to Princess Anne. Looking forward to seeing more of her. Also happy to see that Martin Charteris is getting screen time. He seems to be the most practical of the Queen’s advisers.

[Umbelina]

3 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

I missed having a follow up at the end of what became of Princess Alice. 

Maybe it will come later, I did put several links about her in the history thread, she was a fascinating woman, I'm glad she and Philip reconciled.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Umbelina

[formerlyfreedom]

Please keep discussion to the episode and events leading up to it; future history is considered to be a spoiler, so posts referencing future history will and have been removed.  The History Talk topic is available to discuss future history. Thank you.

[UsernameFatigue]

This is my favourite episode so far. Love the actors playing Phillip and Anne - they have great chemistry. The scene where Phillip is on the intercom asking repeatedly for "Sweetie" was a hoot. As was the Queen saying that she is "Darling" or "Cabbage", but that "Sweetie" was someone else. Also loved the story of Phillip's mom, and her relationship with Anne. After the heaviness of the last episode, this one had a welcomed lightness. 

[Ravenya003]

Good to know that while Merlin was waiting for Arthur's return, he occupied himself by dissing other members of the British monarchy in print.

[andromeda331]

I love Alice. I knew nothing about her until PBS ran a story on her a few years back. She is a really interesting person and had so many hardships. From there I got her biography. I'm a little annoyed with Anne agreeing to do the interview and then pushing her grandmother out to do it instead. But glad that we ended up getting her story or parts of it.

Anne well seemed very much like Anne. So they got that right.

I was surprised that documentary went bad too. I thought I heard it had gone well. 

I liked the scene with Philip and Alice at the end. It was a really nice scene.

Edited November 18, 2019 by andromeda331

[Lillith]

I loved this episode it was very moving, I have to look up and see if that article exists (I'm assuming it does) so I can read it. I believe Anne was always the most down to earth and I liked this protrayal of her. I was so concerned I wouldn't take to the new cast because I loved the previous cast so much, but I'm all in. And I think I may enjoy Tobias Menzes' Phillip more than Matt Smith's. 

[Roseanna]

I guess Philip had all his life been angry towards her mother because he had believed that she had deliberately abandoned him, when in fact she was taken to the mental hospital against her will.

[jschoolgirl]

Is the actor portraying Charteris the same as the one who played Michael Gregson in Downton Abbey? Have we swapped Bertie for Michael?

[AZChristian]

11 minutes ago, jschoolgirl said:

Is the actor portraying Charteris the same as the one who played Michael Gregson in Downton Abbey? Have we swapped Bertie for Michael?

Yep.  We've gone from Edith's husband to her baby daddy.

[marypat57]

I think that the actor who plays Charteris also played David (who abdicated) in the movie Bertie and Elizabeth.

Bertie and Elizabeth is a great movie that portrays their relationship from the time they met in the early 20s until the King's death in 1952.   It is available to watch on Amazon Prime.

[iMonrey]

So we finally see Anne, but where are the other kids? I guess Charles is away in school but Andrew and Edward should be around there somewhere if they're making a documentary about the family. 

Until we found out who she was I kept referring to the nun as "the smoking nun." She sure smoked a lot! I'm glad they spent some time on that character because she's really sort of fascinating. 

[MaggieG]

I loved the scene with the Greek police officers telling the jewelry guy who the nun really was. And her then sticking her head out of the door "do you have a price for me yet?".

[Umbelina]

While I'm glad we got to meet Princess Alice?  I'm rapidly tiring of the endless mommy issues this show repeatedly highlights. 

Also, I honestly didn't learn much about her from this episode, which Google has certainly managed to do with only a few clicks. 

All in all?  I would have preferred less "mommy didn't love me, or at least I didn't think she loved me," and much more about Alice's remarkable and admirable life. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Umbelina

[greekmom]

Actress that played Alice had terrible Greek. I hardly was able to understand her.  

While I enjoyed the episode I can't really comment on Alice except to say that Phillip is an ass.

[tennisgurl]

I loved seeing Alice, and reading more about her life has really shown what a tragic and yet incredible life that she led. I am glad that she and Philip had some nice moments, it was very sweet seeing them both acknowledge that they wish things had been different, but it wasnt either of their fault that she wasnt there for Philip when he was growing up and struggling as a child. 

The whole newsroom at The Guardian cheering and shaking hands with reporter guy seemed pretty ridiculous. Like, he wrote a bad review about a documentary, he didnt exactly bust open the Watergate story. This isnt much of an accomplishment. 

Princess Anne was great and its nice that we are expanding on the royal family more, now that time has passed and "the kids" have grown up. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Paloma]

21 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Also loved the story of Phillip's mom, and her relationship with Anne.

I didn't understand why Anne had a warm relationship with Alice at this point. Anne was calling her Ya-Ya and acting like Alice had been in her life for some time, but didn't they just meet for the first time? I thought Alice was absent from the family (sent to an asylum when Philip was a kid, then living in Greece for many years) for Anne's entire childhood. 

[Umbelina]

25 minutes ago, Paloma said:

I didn't understand why Anne had a warm relationship with Alice at this point. Anne was calling her Ya-Ya and acting like Alice had been in her life for some time, but didn't they just meet for the first time? I thought Alice was absent from the family (sent to an asylum when Philip was a kid, then living in Greece for many years) for Anne's entire childhood. 

I think we are supposed to believe they bonded after Alice moved in.  

It would have been NICE to actually SEE that though, and a good way for all of us to learn about Alice without needing to resort to google to fill in the massive gaps the show left out.

[JasonCC]

Are the other older royals we see in the family gathering shots (and staged as Princess Margaret so wryly pointed out---she'd be drinking and watching TV in her own palace!) the Gloucesters I'm assuming? The ones Princess Marina of Kent was giving an earful to the Queen in finale of Season 2 (well, mostly she was annoyed at Margaret but had a beef about them too if I'm remembering correctly?). At first I figured the woman was Princess Marina herself (Aunty Rina) but the actress from S2 finale wasn't credited that I saw. 

I really liked this episode and (obviously from my comment above LOL) I am super intrigued with the role these slightly more distant relatives play with the core family. It must be incredibly awkward to have your livelihood tied to a niece or cousin, but maybe that's not how it feels at all if you're born into this world. Prince Phillip's relationship with his mother was in some ways so complex and unique, but in other ways completely ordinary. He was embarrassed by her. 

ETA: Yes, that older couple seen/mentioned on this episode and others are Prince Henry (younger brother of the Queen's father and the abdicated Edward VII) and his wife Alice. Princess Marina wasn't there. 

from Wiki:

Michael Thomas as Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester, the uncle of Elizabeth II

Penny Downie as Alice, Duchess of Gloucester

Edited November 19, 2019 by JasonCC

[benteen]

Very good episode.  I really liked the actresses who portrayed Alice and Anne.

[PeterPirate]

9 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I think we are supposed to believe they bonded after Alice moved in.  

It would have been NICE to actually SEE that though, and a good way for all of us to learn about Alice without needing to resort to google to fill in the massive gaps the show left out.

It speaks very, very well to Anne that she wanted her family to see some of their things to help repair Alice's convent.  And also that she took the time to meet and greet the new houseguest and listen to what she had to say.  

[kwnyc]

Quote

 Andrew and Edward should be around there somewhere 

Andrew and Edward would have both been fairly young (under 10), so maybe they didn't want the younger children on camera.

[SeanC]

3 hours ago, JasonCC said:

Are the other older royals we see in the family gathering shots (and staged as Princess Margaret so wryly pointed out---she'd be drinking and watching TV in her own palace!) the Gloucesters I'm assuming?

They were also in the season premiere, they were singing "Happy Birthday" to Henry at his party when Elizabeth gets the news about Churchill's death.

[tennisgurl]

I mean, if they wanted a royal family documentary that everyone would love, they should have just filmed the corgis running around the palace doing cute corgi stuff. I can’t speak for everyone, but I’d watch the crap out of that! 

[Nire]

2 hours ago, kwnyc said:

Andrew and Edward would have both been fairly young (under 10), so maybe they didn't want the younger children on camera.

I feel like they could have had them in the background or mentioned occasionally.  Similarly if Charles is away somewhere why not at least mention him.  I'm assuming that the "kids" drama is going to take center stage soon so it feels weird that we wouldn't even realize they exist so far this season.

[swanpride]

I guess they kind of expect the viewers to know that they are around somewhere.

[kwnyc]

1 hour ago, Nire said:

I feel like they could have had them in the background or mentioned occasionally.  Similarly if Charles is away somewhere why not at least mention him.  I'm assuming that the "kids" drama is going to take center stage soon so it feels weird that we wouldn't even realize they exist so far this season.

Yeah...in '69 Edward would have been 5, and they could have used an Adorable Child, and Andrew would have been 9. Or maybe they didn't want to cast child actors for that one episode.

[Umbelina]

22 minutes ago, kwnyc said:

Yeah...in '69 Edward would have been 5, and they could have used an Adorable Child, and Andrew would have been 9. Or maybe they didn't want to cast child actors for that one episode.

Also, Colman looks pretty old to have a 5 year old running around.    I know she's only 45 IRL, so it's possible, but she looks older than that.

[PRgal]

I know that Princess Alice was diagnosed with schizophrenia, but based on what happened in Greece during her life, I wonder if she'd be diagnosed with PTSD today (this is based on Wikipedia info and the episode)?  Altogether a great episode (yeah, I've only finished the fourth and starting the fifth today), though.  And it's sad that even today, people with mental health issues are stigmatized.  

Also, I find it odd that Princess Anne would suddenly be close to her paternal grandmother, after only knowing her for a short time (compared to her maternal grandmother, whom she has known her entire life).  

Edited November 19, 2019 by PRgal

[Umbelina]

30 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Also, I find it odd that Princess Anne would suddenly be close to her paternal grandmother, after only knowing her for a short time (compared to her maternal grandmother, whom she has known her entire life).  

I wish we'd had more scenes with the two of them.  

My supposition, which this season of the show is relying on too much IMO, is that she found her admirable, a woman who cared about others, did things for others, even after the horrid things that were done to her.  ETA, she wasn't

Spoiler

a whiner or a drunk which must have been refreshing, she overcame her deafness and went on to do real things that helped real people, living in poverty much of that time, and uncomplaining.

All of those things must have been so refreshing for Anne!

Edited November 19, 2019 by Umbelina

[swanpride]

Whatever Alice's "issues" were, they certainly weren't related to her ovaries. And frankly, back then woman were often categorized as "hysteric" or mentally ill just because they didn't function like they were supposed to. Maybe she simply had a boot of depression.

[Roseanna]

19 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I loved seeing Alice, and reading more about her life has really shown what a tragic and yet incredible life that she led. 

And yet she didn't complain for her real tragedies but had found a meaningful life for helping others - what a difference with Margaret! 

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, swanpride said:

Whatever Alice's "issues" were, they certainly weren't related to her ovaries. And frankly, back then woman were often categorized as "hysteric" or mentally ill just because they didn't function like they were supposed to. Maybe she simply had a boot of depression.

Or anxiety.  Or just really bad PMS.  

[swanpride]

Or related to her ears. Stress can cause Tinitus, especially if you already have a problem with your ear, and that can frankly drive someone crazy. Especially in the beginning.

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Or anxiety.  Or just really bad PMS.  

Or her husband just wanted her out of the way, a very common thing back then.

I don't think there was anything wrong with her at all.

Just now, swanpride said:

Or related to her ears. Stress can cause Tinitus, especially if you already have a problem with your ear, and that can frankly drive someone crazy. Especially in the beginning.

Being completely deaf and knowing 3 languages AND lip-reading only would be very difficult and stressful all on it's own.  Her conquering that is one more reason I don't think there was anything wrong with her.  Other than not being content to just be a rich do-nothing.

[kwnyc]

2 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Or her husband just wanted her out of the way, a very common thing back then.

Yes...problematic women could be institutionalized for almost any reason, especially if they came from wealthy/influential families. Becoming a nun actually gave her much more agency over her life.

[swanpride]

Pretty common. A lot of noble woman became a nun not necessarily out of faith but because it could give them a little bit more agency. See Hildegard von Bingen as a particularly famous example.

[Pallas]

I'll buy that Anne and Alice found common ground. Princess Alice was a workhorse; Princess Anne is a workhorse. While Anne had little in common with her gauzy maternal grandmother, Alice was Anne's father's mother, despite their differences. And Anne is her father's daughter: brusque, acerbic, keen and driven. I think we're meant to see her as, at first, supporting her father and doubting his concept, in equal parts -- then, when he really called on her, accepting his strategy and doing it one better.

But there was no interview with Alice, and no John Armstrong (or other) with the Guardian.

[Atlanta]

Finally Anne! Yay! I want to see a wee Edward since I lurve his wife.

Heh, HBC's Margaret saying "nightmare before Christmas."

Edited November 20, 2019 by Atlanta

[Cheezwiz]

6 hours ago, Pallas said:

While Anne had little in common with her gauzy maternal grandmother, Alice was Anne's father's mother, despite their differences. And Anne is her father's daughter: brusque, acerbic, keen and driven.

Seriously, I think Anne was the son the Duke of Edinburgh always wanted.

The actress was well cast - looked and sounded very much like Anne.

[Cheezwiz]

I found this episode very interesting and touching. I didn't know much about Princess Alice until watching this episode. Googling filled me in a bit more. What a remarkable resilient woman Alice was. It was nice that she was able to reconcile with Phillip before her death. Good move on the Queen's part to bring her to the palace to live out her final days.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 11/18/2019 at 8:17 PM, greekmom said:

Actress that played Alice had terrible Greek. I hardly was able to understand her. 

Well, it wasn't her native language (she married a Greek prince at age 18) and being deaf, she had never actually heard it spoken!

Edited November 20, 2019 by ItCouldBeWorse