S01.E03: Down Down Down

[Trini]

Quote

As the city waits impatiently for another visit from who they think is Batman, Alice continues to taunt Kate with a secret but also sets her sights on Jacob and Catherine. Kate is visited by Tommy Elliot (guest star Gabriel Mann), a childhood friend of her cousin who has finally realized his lifelong dream of being wealthier than Bruce Wayne and throws a party so all of Gotham can celebrate his success.

Mary gets an unexpected new bestie when Sophie is assigned to protect her. Luke and Kate work together to uncover who may have taken a valuable weapon from Batman's arsenal. And as Batwoman faces a new enemy, Kate realizes she must either walk away from her new role or fully embrace the mantle as Gotham's new hope.

Dermott Downs directed the episode written by Holly Henderson and Don Whitehead.

Airdate: 10/20/2019

[scarynikki12]

Tommy Elliot has arrived! Stealing from Bruce is quite the entrance to the show. And a Riddler reference! 

I love Mary so much and I’m liking her opposite Sophie. They understand each other better now. Hope we get a friendship out of this. 
 

The previouslies had a line that I missed last week about Catherine (the current Mrs Kane) being the one who found the bone fragments that convinced Jacob Beth was dead. I’m now convinced she’s behind Bats’ grappling hook getting cut and arranging for Jacob to end his search. Maybe she tried to blow up Alice because she held her hostage after the car went into the river and doesn’t want to risk being identified. Whatever turns out to be true she’s definitely involved and villainous on some level. 
 

It seems like Sophie is firmly in the closet so I hope we get more details soon. Is it due to family homophobia? Was Kate the first time she was ever into a woman and the homophobia of the academy scared her right back into the closet? She couldn’t afford to quit like Kate could so I assume that means she grew up with limited resources. She does seem to have affection for her husband but I think it’s friendship based. 

Kate’s in the suit! I love the shade of red used in her wig and bat. It’s so dramatic. She’s 100% Bruce’s cousin. I missed the blonde’s name but I know her as Babcock from The Passage (damn you Fox!) so I want her to stick around. 
 

Alice saved the day! I love her and I love them. “Kate’s going to be so disappointed” Give me all the Kane family goodies including cello playing. 
 

Jacob is going to be in denial about Alice until the last second but I expect a good payoff so I’m cool with it. 

[quarks]

1. Still enjoying Mary/the stepsister. Still thinking that Rachel Skarsten is at least having fun with this.  Still liking the Rachel Maddow stuff. Still meh on the rest of the cast.

Not to sound repetitive.

At least the stepmother is rounding out a bit, though, so maybe this will change a bit.

2. Well, if we had any questions about where Batwoman is filming, seeing all of those sets from Arrow and Flash certainly answered those questions.

3. Hush! Riddler mention!

4.  Show, did you really - really - introduce an alternative love interest who just happens to be a cute and slightly quirky blonde in the third episode of this show?  I realize you're trying to take Arrow's place, but a) you're already using at least some of Arrow's sets, and b) really?

Otherwise, a distinct improvement from the first two episodes, I thought - much better pacing and more bat thingies.

[scarynikki12]

2 minutes ago, quarks said:

Show, did you really - really - introduce an alternative love interest who just happens to be a cute and slightly quirky blonde in the third episode of this show?  I realize you're trying to take Arrow's place, but a) you're already using at least some of Arrow's sets, and b) really?

It was totally different! Not a red pen in sight! 

[quarks]

2 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

It was totally different! Not a red pen in sight! 

Uh huh.

[Chaser]

24 minutes ago, quarks said:

4.  Show, did you really - really - introduce an alternative love interest who just happens to be a cute and slightly quirky blonde in the third episode of this show?  I realize you're trying to take Arrow's place, but a) you're already using at least some of Arrow's sets, and b) really?

First episode I’ve watched. ^ is hilarious.

[statsgirl]

Sophie: You're a third year medical student:

Mary : He has a headache and a blown pupil. She could have an epidural hematoma or {something medical}. [off Sophie's look] I read ahead.

Mary and Alice are the best things about this show.  I'm also really liking Reagan too.

I think Daddy Kane finally figured out that it's really Beth, although he can have the cello and bow tested for DNA.

I definitely think that step mom was involved with keeping Beth hidden.  That's why Alice went after her.

I love the red on the suit, and the ruby birthstone reference. Luke needs to step up his game. So does the security at the Wayne Building since Tommy could just walk into the office.

Arkham is going to be very crowded by the end of this season.

29 minutes ago, quarks said:

4.  Show, did you really - really - introduce an alternative love interest who just happens to be a cute and slightly quirky blonde in the third episode of this show? 

And with more chemistry with the lead than the old love interest.  (ducks)

[Lantern7]

Hey, it's Tommy Elliot! And hey, he's a Bruce Wayne wannabe in the comics AND on this show! Also, this one quotes Aristotle as well.

Alice still continues to be fun in all the wrong ways. We finally get Kate as Batwoman, and she manages to get Rach Vesper all hot and bothered. Of course Bruce Wayne would have something to neutralize his own suit. And Kate manages to clean up well at a fancy shindig.

[Chaser]

Alice and Kate are related right? Half siblings? Cause that last scene on the rooftop...

After watching, I didn’t hate any character. Ruby is striking and she has something about her, but I can’t help but think this was a miscast. She is particularly strong on the acting front.

Mary is fun. I liked her and Kate together. 

Sophie is married. I don’t wike it. I’m not a fan of cheating storylines.

I liked Reagan. They had good chemistry .But they jumped quickly into it and bartender isn’t a super important narrative skill so I doubt she’s going to be around for long. Unless they get a call from an executive. 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Chaser

[scarynikki12]

20 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Alice and Kate are related right?

Twins.

[quarks]

44 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

And with more chemistry with the lead than the old love interest.  (ducks)

I was trying to refrain from listing all of the potential similarities...

[bmoore4026]

Kate's in her iconic suit!  Yay!  Not going to lie, hearing "Batchick" and "Batbabe" coming out of Rachel Maddow's  Vesper Fairchild's mouth was kind of cringy. 

Oh, Sophie.  There aren't enough riding lawnmowers in the world to run over you with.  Even Mary is sick of you.

Mary is like Kate's Robin, only she doesn't fight, but heals.  I like the dynamic.

Naughty Alice.  You went and killed a CROWE after telling Kate you wouldn't anymore.    Naughty, naughty, naughty.

Can someone explain to me the significance of the two, the eight, and the three and their suits?

It's asinine to say this after watching so many Arrowverse shows, but would it kill them for a better lighting budget on these shows, especially this one.  I'm sick of shows that make the daring move of not including the audience.

And blessed be Saint Regen, the sapphic angel that's going to take all of Kate's pain away.

Spoiler

So what villain name are you thinking for the stepmother?  Queen of Spades?  Black Rose?

[thuganomics85]

Okay, I can now safely say that Mary is easily my favorite character now (with Alice a solid second.)  All of her reactions to Sophie and the drama surrounding her with Kate and the husband was perfect.  And I like that despite the issues between her and Kate last episode, she still went into protective sister mode when it came to seeing Sophie again, and knowing she broke Kate's heart.  Plus, her awesome medical skills!  Yep, Mary has shot up to the list of characters who needs to find out Kate's identity stat, so she can join the eventual Team Batwoman that will form, and get some good comedic moments with Kate and Luke.

Despite my limited comic knowledge, I've definitely heard Tommy Elliot's name before, so I'm curious to see how he's going to factor in going forward.  Gabriel Mann did a good enough job, although I'll admit that I misread the credit at first and thought it was Gabriel Macht, and thought "Damn, Harvey from Suits is a pretty big get for the CW!"

Looks like Kate is going to get a new love interest in the form of Regan, a gorgeous, likable bartender, who automatically seems to spark with Ruby Rose.  Can't wait to see how this gets messed up!  Maybe they'll just kill two birds with one stone and have her hook up with Sophie's husband, once they decide to pull the trigger on a Kate/Sophie reunion.

At this point, if loving Alice is wrong, I don't want to be right.  And to be fair, she did last longer than I expected when it came to following Kate's "Please don't kill anyone for 24 hours" request.  A for effort, at least!

Kate finally forgoes the Hood... err, I mean, the Batsuit and becomes Batwoman!  I did think Ruby Rose was more comfortable in it compared to last year's crossover episode, so I'll dare to be cautious optimistic.  Still not wowing me, but, again, maybe her path will be closer to Stephen Amell's "slowing becoming the character", instead of Grant Gustin and Melissa Benoist's "automatically fit the character like a glove" path.

[UNOSEZ]

Poor sad repressed Sophie... I'll be slightly ok with her until either her emotional infidelity gets too bad.. Or she actually cheats on her clueless husband... Mary is still a treasure.. I liked Luke even more as he was forceful with Kate about her responsibility with the suit... The stepmoms is shady as hell... I think the dad is on the cusp of admitting it to himself... Of course the show could still be faking us out but I doubt it... 

[Samwise979]

This show is growing on me. And to think I was going to skip it after that crossover last year. But they reaaaaally need to get rid of the "dear Bruce" narration bits. 

[possibilities]

Ruby Rose looks and mugs like Justin Bieber. I really wish they'd cast someone else.

[AnimeMania]

I really couldn't figure out Kate and Alice keeps getting from the Roof to the Ground Floor and the Ground Floor to the Roof without elevators.

How can two security officers figure out how to get out of a stuck elevator, but the head of a security firm can not.

[Jediknight]

Kate, you already gave your sister the do not kill ultimatum, and she broke it.  I know she saved your life, but probably best not to give her that same ultimatum the same night she killed somebody, less than 24 hours after you gave her that ultimatum the first time.

Nice that Beth/Alice knows that Kate kept looking for her.  She didn't just give up, so something had to make her stop.

[Lady Calypso]

Mary is an amazing character. I love all the different layers that they've given her. She can be a bit spoiled and she can be snarky, but she is also very caring and can snap into doctor mode very easily. I loved her dynamic with Sophie. I thought they worked extremely well together, and I'm glad Sophie got to see the doctor side to Mary that did allow her to change her opinion of her. Never let Mary go, show. She's definitely the best character on this show.

Followed by Alice, who is really fun to watch because of Rachel Skarsten's portrayal of her. She is allowing Alice to actually be completely batshit nuts and that allows for a more fun character, even when she gets to play overdramatic.

The Kate/Alice stuff is well done. Obviously, there is a part of Beth still in there and obviously, Kate is right about Alice in some capacity, but I still find their dynamic fascinating to watch. How far can Alice go before Kate really does give up on her? What would she have to do? Kill Sophie, perhaps?

New bartender chick (Reagan?) is actually pretty cool. I hope she doesn't turn out evil, but I really liked her. She'd be a fun additional to Future Team Batwoman, once Kate actually assembles her team. 

Still am not feeling Luke. I feel like I keep tuning out his scenes. I think both his actor and Ruby Rose are the weakest when together. Ruby Rose works better with the other actresses and Dougray Scott. 

Gabriel Mann! Hello! His role as Tommy was well done. 

I'm glad we got to the completed Batwoman look. She looks great.

[ACW]

10 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Can someone explain to me the significance of the two, the eight, and the three and their suits?

  Hide contents

My guess is uranium. U-238 is the most common isotope. You can’t make a bomb directly from it, but you can turn it into plutonium. 

And it's very heavy.  Maybe Kate's mom's car had a bunch in the trunk for some odd reason?

[Katsullivan]

I am not impressed with the show's treatment of Sophie. She's apparently bisexual, so acting like she's "faking" her marriage is disgustingly bi-phobic. Whatever reasons she has for hiding her this aspect of her life, they are her reasons. It's disgusting that Kate and Mary are constantly trying to shame her for it. 

Outing a non-straight person's sexual identity is never OK. I don't give a f**k if you are her ex or her ex's sister.

Also, they broke up. Sophie didn't cheat on Kate when she started a relationship with and got married to a man. Kate acting entitled to her ("I'd have broken up your wedding" 😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬) is stalkerish af and would have been called out if Kate was a past boyfriend. Newsflash, CW network: You don't get brownie points for making an abusive dynamic gay.

[CletusMusashi]

First of all, let me find where the line starts to list Mary as best character, 'cause I'm there.

I do like Alice, but I was just starting to realize this week that her arc is too slow to make her the only active villain on the show. Thank you, Tommy, for solving that problem.

I'm not familiar with his comic character, but this incarnation is good. The petty, self-interested douchebaggage of his character motivation is an interesting change from the usual "I was pretty, but now I have burn scars" or "I'm just a mercenary but I really seem to like cosplay for some reason" villains that tend to dominate the genre.

[UNOSEZ]

48 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

I am not impressed with the show's treatment of Sophie. She's apparently bisexual, so acting like she's "faking" her marriage is disgustingly bi-phobic. Whatever reasons she has for hiding her this aspect of her life, they are her reasons. It's disgusting that Kate and Mary are constantly trying to shame her for it. 

Outing a non-straight person's sexual identity is never OK. I don't give a f**k if you are her ex or her ex's sister.

Also, they broke up. Sophie didn't cheat on Kate when she started a relationship with and got married to a man. Kate acting entitled to her ("I'd have broken up your wedding" 😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬) is stalkerish af and would have been called out if Kate was a past boyfriend. Newsflash, CW network: You don't get brownie points for making an abusive dynamic gay.

I initially thought she was just Bi-sexual.. And then when everyone seemed so surprised I was like oh.. I guess she's in the closet.. In those situations I just feel bad for everyone involved... I will say getting married kinda implies a level of trust,  thobwe don't know if the husband knows she was with a woman before or not.. I know for sure he doesn't know it was Kate... But homeboy ain't a brick wall he senses something.. And while it may be hard And possible there is some real deep-seeded stuff that she's keeping in.. If anyone deserves to know ( especially because it seems there is some residual feelings)  Its her huaband... 

As gross as it sounds.. And I'm not a part of the LGBTQ community.. But couldn't it be seen as progress to get to a point where we have an "abusive gay dynamic" for perspective I got really hyped that Michael Ealy was gonna play a serial killer on the following... For so long black guys only got to be certain types of criminals.. So even those the character was a dirtbag.. It felt like progress because a new avenue was opening up... If I'm outta bounds I do apologize 

[Featherhat]

Mary is my favourite character by far. Nicole Kang is definitely MVP for being able to pull off ditzy "influencer" and caring Robin Hood doctor without being false or awkward was great. I really hope she finds out soon. I like her dynamic with Kate more than the obvious push pull between Kate and Beth-Alice. 

Still not entirely enjoying Ruby Rose in the role, although she is getting more settled in it. It just feels like there's something missing from her performance. 

Kate announcing "Tommy Elliot" in that tone reminded me of Oliver announcing "Tommy Merlyn" in same tone in the Arrow pilot so we'd know who he was despite it being awkward for Oliver to say his best friend's name that way. Gabriel Mann was pleasingly crazy in the role when he was talking about being upset Batman had saved his mother's life. 

It's just weird to hear Rachel Maddow's voice in this. Especially when I try to picture the character as someone who slept with Oliver. Not really feeling DS in the role either though he's not terrible, which is unfortunate as I need to feel his connection to Kate and reluctantly to Alice but it falls kind of flat. 

As for Sophie. I liked her dynamic with Mary this episode. But.....I really wish they were doing something different with the character. It's a lot of baggage for her to lug around when the show is also introducing cute, quirky love interests for Kate who don't have a husband and drama. I don't think the storyline is biphobic at the moment so much that it's almost all focused on Kate and people who are on Kate's side. The unfortunate thing is we also often don't get much in the way of LI POV on important subjects just the main character's. So right now we have married Sophie lying to her husband and still pining without seeing what's in her head, which isn't a good look either. We don't know if Sophie is bi or lesbian if Kate was the only time she felt attraction to a girl etc. And we will need that. 

I liked Reagan, she seems like a fun relationship for a while and they have chemistry but I think unless network suits started writing notes right away (which I don't think they did) then she's already gone by the crossover. 

[Katsullivan]

23 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

As gross as it sounds.. And I'm not a part of the LGBTQ community.. But couldn't it be seen as progress to get to a point where we have an "abusive gay dynamic" for perspective I got really hyped that Michael Ealy was gonna play a serial killer on the following... For so long black guys only got to be certain types of criminals.. So even those the character was a dirtbag.. It felt like progress because a new avenue was opening up... If I'm outta bounds I do apologize 

I get that point and usually I'm all for it. The whole point of equality in diversity is not pandering to stereotypes - good or bad. Basically, equal opportunity toxic relationships is something I'm down for.

The problem I have with the specific instance is that the show isn't portraying this as problematic, at least not on Kate's part. We're 3 episodes in and Kate's behavior is being validated, not questioned, by the narration, portrayed as sympathetic. On the flip side, Sophie is portrayed as the problematic one, her choice to remain in the closet is framed entirely in the perspective of her relationship with Kate, and not with any kind of complexity as her own choice as a non-straight person.

9 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I don't think the storyline is biphobic at the moment so much that it's almost all focused on Kate and people who are on Kate's side.

The show doesn't need to focus away from Kate to portray Sophie's choices sympathetically. It's remarkably easy to still keep the story in Kate's POV without demonizing Sophie. 

[UNOSEZ]

17 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

I get that point and usually I'm all for it. The whole point of equality in diversity is not pandering to stereotypes - good or bad. Basically, equal opportunity toxic relationships is something I'm down for.

The problem I have with the specific instance is that the show isn't portraying this as problematic, at least not on Kate's part. We're 3 episodes in and Kate's behavior is being validated, not questioned, by the narration, portrayed as sympathetic. On the flip side, Sophie is portrayed as the problematic one, her choice to remain in the closet is framed entirely in the perspective of her relationship with Kate, and not with any kind of complexity as her own choice as a non-straight person.

The show doesn't need to focus away from Kate to portray Sophie's choices sympathetically. It's remarkably easy to still keep the story in Kate's POV without demonizing Sophie. 

I have no notes.. That was perfect 👌 

[quarks]

1. Sophie isn't just concealing her past relationship with Kate from her husband, though. She's concealing that she even knows/knew Kate from her husband. As he points out, correctly, given that Kate is the daughter of his boss, this is important info for him to have, since it might affect the dynamics of their employment, and created a rather awkward situation for him at an business function. Not to mention letting a random bartender know that his marriage was not exactly based on complete honesty.

2. Concealing this information also put both Kate and Mary into awkward situations in this episode precisely because both of them were respecting Sophie's choice to remain closeted. Both of them also had various reasons to be resentful of Sophie - but they still respected that choice.

3. And because they (and Reagan) respected that choice, I didn't get the impression that Batwoman was trying to shame Sophie for remaining closeted. I did, however, think that Batwoman was trying to show that staying closeted can lead to awkward and painful situations for everyone involved, not just the closeted person. 

4. Also, this all happened in the same episode where Batwoman for whatever reason, wanted to show that Sophie isn't always the best judge of people - and chose the sympathetic Mary to illustrate this point. Which meant that Sophie spent the entire episode not just concealing her past relationship with Kate from her husband, but also completely misjudging/dismissing Mary, right down to dismissing Mary's correct medical diagnosis. It wasn't the best look for Sophie, and when combined with the "wow, the husband not knowing about this is a bit awkward, isn't it?" didn't exactly make staying closeted look like an awesome/best choice. 

5. In terms of Kate as the abusive one -  uh, no, television generally treats coming to stop a wedding as romantic, not stalkerish. Whether television should be doing this or not is an excellent question, but claiming that this behavior would have been pointed out/shamed if Kate were a guy means ignoring the last eight decades of television, particularly sitcoms. New Girl, for instance, just ended with the character who earlier interrupted/sabotaged a wedding happily married, with kids, to the woman whose wedding he sabotaged. It's a television staple. 

6. All this said, I do think Batwoman needs to show us what Sophie's reasons for staying closeted are, and fast, because right now, Sophie is coming across as the hands down least sympathetic member of the cast except arguably the stepmother, up to and including Alice and Hush. And even the rather shady stepmother had a few sympathetic moments this episode.

It's not that we haven't gotten Sophie's viewpoint here - we have, with the camera focused on her, showing her discomfort whenever she's asked about Kate, and her discomfort at seeing Kate and Reagan together. And we've had some dialogue from Sophie about her current romantic status - that she's married, and happy. It wasn't convincing dialogue, but it's there. What we haven't gotten are explanations. 

[bmoore4026]

4 hours ago, ACW said:

My guess is uranium. U-238 is the most common isotope. You can’t make a bomb directly from it, but you can turn it into plutonium. 

And it's very heavy.  Maybe Kate's mom's car had a bunch in the trunk for some odd reason?

That explains it.  Oh, God what does she have planned!?

[possibilities]

I think the idea they are advancing is that being in the closet is sad, and that social pressure and discrimination make it a painful necessity that hurts everyone.

That message might have been enlightening to straight people a generation ago, but by now I think we all need and deserve better stories.

[quarks]

15 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I think the idea they are advancing is that being in the closet is sad, and that social pressure and discrimination make it a painful necessity that hurts everyone.

That message might have been enlightening to straight people a generation ago, but by now I think we all need and deserve better stories.

Point.

And in context, of course, this show is broadcast on a network that already features a number of openly queer people in queer relationships, and is part of a universe that has many openly queer people and had an openly gay man running a police department (on Flash) without anyone in that show blinking an eye.

I'm not saying that Batwoman viewers have all watched Flash, Legends of Tomorrow and Black Lightning (I'm assuming many haven't), but those shows have set up certain expectations that so far, Batwoman isn't really following with Sophie.

[Cryonix]

I can't help wondering, if Beth supposedly died with her Mom when she was 8 years old, who looked after her since that time until she decided to become Alice. Who rescued her & why did they not locate her father.

[UNOSEZ]

8 minutes ago, Cryonix said:

I can't help wondering, if Beth supposedly died with her Mom when she was 8 years old, who looked after her since that time until she decided to become Alice. Who rescued her & why did they not locate her father.

Gotham.. Is a legitimately horrible place

[appositival]

Jacob Kane: (hearing cello music on the phone)

"Who's this?"

Me: (leaning forward)

"Bach!!"

He really isn't much of a detective.

[possibilities]

I think we should get Beth/Alice's backstory sooner rather than later-- what was happening all those years? A am guessing someone found her and abused her, rather than that she just somehow lived on her own like a feral being. But we do need answers to that question.

[Starry]

I liked the villain of the week. Good for Kate for being smart and figuring him out.

Love Mary. This is a character who manages to be genuinely funny.

I need Luke to get some air, a change of scenery and interact with more characters other than Kate. I don't think I have ever seen him outside of the Batcave or a Wayne Enterprises building.

Reagan wasn't too bad. I liked the part about her ability to read people but her final scene with Kate was too forced. She also looked a bit awkward there. Awkward love interests aren't at all endearing to me. I am not getting any sparks with Kate either.

If I didn't know Kate and Alice were twins, I would think there was something there in that final rooftop meeting.

I always love to hear Vesper talk.

Sophie naming Batwoman is probably going to be important.

4 hours ago, quarks said:

2. Concealing this information also put both Kate and Mary into awkward situations in this episode precisely because both of them were respecting Sophie's choice to remain closeted. Both of them also had various reasons to be resentful of Sophie - but they still respected that choice.

3. And because they (and Reagan) respected that choice, I didn't get the impression that Batwoman was trying to shame Sophie for remaining closeted. I did, however, think that Batwoman was trying to show that staying closeted can lead to awkward and painful situations for everyone involved, not just the closeted person.

This seems like manipulative writing. Being in the closet is a personal choice. The show creating scenarios where Sophie's choice puts other people in awkward and painful situations is disgusting. What is the message here? Come out of the closet or other people are going to suffer because of it? Is the show trying to guilt-trip closeted non-straight people?

In order for the writing to not feel manipulative they need to show how living a lie hurts the closeted person, not the rest of the world.

Kate, Mary and Reagan don't deserve brownie points for respecting Sophie's choice. That's the decent thing to do. The one who's being wronged here is the husband. Kate and Mary don't even have a right to be resentful. I don't mind that they are as that makes them more layered characters with human feelings and emotions but they aren't in the right/entitled to anything.

[mtlchick]

21 hours ago, possibilities said:

Ruby Rose looks and mugs like Justin Bieber. I really wish they'd cast someone else.

She looks like Kate McKinnon playing Bieber on SNL.  Which isn't any better. 

2 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

I can't help wondering, if Beth supposedly died with her Mom when she was 8 years old, who looked after her since that time until she decided to become Alice. Who rescued her & why did they not locate her father.

It's Gotham.  Any crime lord would jump at the chance to kidnap and mold her into someone else.  

[Proteus]

I liked Kate & Regans scenes. They had good chemistry.

Mary continues to be one of my faves.

Love Alice. RS is really good playing her.

[Bulldog]

On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 10:45 PM, scarynikki12 said:

Twins.

So were Jamie and Cersei Lannister.

[Trini]

Wow, I might actually stick with this. However, Ruby Rose continues to be the weakest link. I'm trying to think of another show where I've liked everything except the lead....

Yay, Nolan Gabriel Mann! We better be seeing more of Tommy. So the Riddler knows Batman's identity? Also, he has to know that Kate is Batwoman, right? I hope when he comes back, he has already figured it out.

So who was Tommy referring to with his "golddigger" comment? I don't think it was his mother?

Luke, the father and stepmother need some rounding out. Alice is still the best/worst. I like that with Alice as Kate's sister, there's at least a semi-valid reason for her not being apprehended sooner.

Okay so we got a bit of Sophie's husband; still seems like this dude isn't going to be important to anything.

Yeah, this Reagan chick is totally a 'Linda'. With the exact same intro of 'Hot Girl Comes On Strongly to Our Lead Hero They Just Met, Because Of Course Our Hero Has to Be Shown as Sexy and Desirable'.

I like the Vesper podcast(?) more than the 'Letters to Bruce'.
 

On 10/20/2019 at 10:16 PM, Lantern7 said:

... Of course Bruce Wayne would have something to neutralize his own suit. ...

Heh -
Bruce: "How do I make myself unstoppable?" *check* "Okay, now, how do I stop myself?"...

[Kelda Feegle]

It must be incredibly painful to watch the woman you love disavow your entire history together.

Still not feeling Luke.

Enjoying Mary and Alice.

Am I the only one who thinks Alice looks older than Batwoman but they are twins?

[CletusMusashi]

6 hours ago, Cryonix said:

I can't help wondering, if Beth supposedly died with her Mom when she was 8 years old, who looked after her since that time until she decided to become Alice. Who rescued her & why did they not locate her father.

I'm not at the end of this thread yet, so it may have been pointed out already. Also, I don't remember off the top of my head whether or not this guess would qualify as a spoiler. But, since the Riddler mention confirms that we are coming into a Gotham City that has time to accumulate Batman's usual rogue's gallery, and she has an extreme fondness for Lewis Carroll, and DNA tests confirmed that the skull fragments found were hers, I'm gonna venture a guess that our mentor is:

Spoiler

Jervis Tetch, aka The Mad Hatter, a very theatrical Carroll-obsessed villain who specializes in brain-control chips.

1 hour ago, Bulldog said:

So were Jamie and Cersei Lannister.

And that ended well...

[Rushmoras]

And I was wondering how long will it take for Kate to wear that god ugly red wig. Well, the third episode of course! IMO, remove the wig, she looks stupid with it.

Also, could they please not do the love triangle trope. Just pair off Kate with that hot blond chick and leave that what's her name with her husband. I mean, who really wants to see it?

Third episode in a row and consistent enough for me to warrant a 7/10 rating for it. Not bad, not bad at all.

[Eneya]

The show is getting better with each episode and I am quite happy with that.

I am also incredibly amused that the little assholes who tried to bomb the show on Rotten Tomatoes only made it the most popular and recommended show. And by what I see, the ridiculously low audience review is actually slowly getting better and better. I love it when 4chan idiots own themselves. :) The best advertisement the creators could have come up with couldn't be better than this. Hehehehe.

Ruby is finding her footing. The letters sound a bit stilted but Ruby is playing suave very nicely. 

I like Mary and I am sure she will learn about the identity very soon.

About Sophie, from experience, this shit actually happens. Especially when others don't know one is in the closet with their current so. Quite awkward and there is no clear answer ir way to avoid it. As long as the show doesn't try to shame her, I am cautiously optimistic about that story line. They should not touch in any way the relationship between Sophie and her so, because it will be a crap move.

I want to see more of the stepmom.

Yay, hi, Nolan! Awww, bye Nolan...

[Delphi]

I'm loving Rachel as Alice.  She's doing a bang up job.   In the penthouse after she killed the guard and was walking up to him all gleeful and then remembered she promised Kate she wouldn't kill,  her facial expression was just fantastic.   "Ohhh, right... fuck. "

I think Ruby is quickly growing into the role,  I know a lot of people aren't happy with her and I get it,  but it's not exactly a small cape to fill and I think she's trying her best and with each episode she's finding her footing. 

Interesting that they changed Tommy's backstory so that it could mirror Kate's.  I'm not sure I like it,  but I see why they did it. 

[Lokiberry]

There are too many voice overs on this show and one of them needs to go. And I don't mean Rachel Maddow.

I'm just not interested in the wangst surrounding Sophie. She's hiding her sexuality, she's got a husband, and yet she's got herself assigned to Mary so she can pump her for info about Kate. I know where this is going to lead: "I luv you, but I can't hurt my husband! Whatever shall I do? Oh the drama, oh the tragedy!" and then a safe falls on hubby's head, and the second season is entirely about Sophie feeling too guilty to move on with Kate.  I don't want to see any of this! Why can't Reagan be Earth-1's version of Maggie Sawyer, who was working undercover as a bartender? 

I think Katherine is responsible  (probably unintentionally) for the car being so heavy the bat-cables broke. Maybe she was smuggling U-238 for terrorists or something. I also think she faked the bone fragments and Beth's DNA in order to get Jacob to move on with his life with her. 

ETA:

I really like Mary. She reminds me of Felicity where she was first introduced; bright, bubbly, and fun to be around. Even better, since she and Kate are sisters there won't be any romantic wangst and love triangles to suck the life out of everything. I hope she finds out soon and joins Team Batwoman. 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Lokiberry

[Trini]

8 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

And I was wondering how long will it take for Kate to wear that god ugly red wig. Well, the third episode of course! IMO, remove the wig, she looks stupid with it.

I gotta disagree. The suit is boring without some color. Plus, I like the concept that she wants to look different than Batman.
 

Quote

Also, could they please not do the love triangle trope. Just pair off Kate with that hot blond chick and leave that what's her name with her husband. I mean, who really wants to see it?

CW's gonna CW.

[rainsmom]

15 minutes ago, Trini said:

The suit is boring without some color.

And, as shown in the first two episodes, she's recognizable in the other suit. Now, as long as she disguises her voice, she really isn't recognizable.

[madhacker]

19 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

19 hours ago, Cryonix said:

I can't help wondering, if Beth supposedly died with her Mom when she was 8 years old, who looked after her since that time until she decided to become Alice. Who rescued her & why did they not locate her father.

Gotham.. Is a legitimately horrible place

Since she calls herself Alice,is it possible that she was raised (and driven nuts) by Jervis Tetch aka The Mad Hatter? Wouldn't that be an awesome twist!!

[Rushmoras]

12 hours ago, Trini said:

I gotta disagree. The suit is boring without some color. Plus, I like the concept that she wants to look different than Batman.

Meh, as I understand, Batman's all guise is sticking in the shadows and being near invisible in the dark (along with using high-tech gadgets). With these colours, she as well may primp herself up with Christmas or neon lights to alert the evil guys that she's here.

[Simba122504]

On 10/20/2019 at 8:37 PM, quarks said:

1. Still enjoying Mary/the stepsister. Still thinking that Rachel Skarsten is at least having fun with this.  Still liking the Rachel Maddow stuff. Still meh on the rest of the cast.

Not to sound repetitive.

At least the stepmother is rounding out a bit, though, so maybe this will change a bit.

2. Well, if we had any questions about where Batwoman is filming, seeing all of those sets from Arrow and Flash certainly answered those questions.

3. Hush! Riddler mention!

4.  Show, did you really - really - introduce an alternative love interest who just happens to be a cute and slightly quirky blonde in the third episode of this show?  I realize you're trying to take Arrow's place, but a) you're already using at least some of Arrow's sets, and b) really?

Otherwise, a distinct improvement from the first two episodes, I thought - much better pacing and more bat thingies.

The pilot was shot in Chicago (if I'm not mistaken) but the rest in Vancouver. I think Alice is going to become an anti hero. Step mama is definitely shady and I like it. Even though it falls under the tired evil step parent trope. Step sister is already my favorite character. WB/DC is so protected over Bruce Wayne/Batman, I think hell will freeze over before they allow him to guest star on series in S2. Which is a shame. 

Edited October 24, 2019 by Simba122504