S04.E05: Storybook Love

[memememe76]

Once Randall left the hospital, didn't he go to Memphis with William? And then William died. There was no time. 

[TheLotusFlower]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Beth had an obligation to tell Randall about William's anxiety and she chose not to.  Shame on her.  Whether it is genetic in William's family or learned behavior, someone should have told Randall about it, simply because he is having anxiety attacks.

Of course, Randall made it all about himself, blaming himself for passing down anxiety to Tess, which is ridiculous.   Even if it was genetically passed down to Tess, that wasn't an intentional act by Randall.  He has nothing to apologize for.  That being said, children see how people around them react all of the time to various situations.  It wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility that children would parrot what they see. 

If an adult is having repeated anxiety attacks over similar situations, a child seeing that behavior often enough, might start reacting the same way.   Learned behavior.

The Big Three have anxiety issues, and only two of the big three are biologically related.  There is no doubt in my mind that some of that stress is learned behavior.  I am not saying all of it.  I believe some of it is learned behavior.

Randall blaming himself for something that isn't within his control isn't at all unusual for someone with severe anxiety.  In fact, that behavior is pretty much hallmark for someone who lives with extreme anxiety and panic attacks.  And he's not making it all about himself.  Randall is an intelligent man, so even if he did genetically predispose Tess to have anxiety, his logical mind would understand that it wasn't his fault.  But again, anxiety doesn't care about being logical or rational.  He feels that he is the reason his child is now hurting.  So no, it's not "ridiculous" that he blames himself, it's just part of who he is.  Your previous comments seem to indicate you really don't care for the Randall character.  You stated that he's not good at being a husband, father, or councilman.  I agree that he's not doing the best job as a councilman, but to me that's because he puts being a husband and father above all else.  That doesn't usually go over well in politics.  I think he's a great husband and father.  He's not perfect because, you know, he's human.  But I really don't get the animosity towards him

[Dminches]

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Beth had an obligation to tell Randall about William's anxiety and she chose not to.  Shame on her.  Whether it is genetic in William's family or learned behavior, someone should have told Randall about it, simply because he is having anxiety attacks.

I am not sure why she did.  I don’t see how it helps Randall deal with this anxiety.  Even if he knew it was hereditary, he still needs to come up with strategies and/or take medication for it.  Knowing it is passed down doesn’t really fix anything.

[ams1001]

24 minutes ago, TheLotusFlower said:

Randall is an intelligent man, so even if he did genetically predispose Tess to have anxiety, his logical mind would understand that it wasn't his fault.  But again, anxiety doesn't care about being logical or rational. 

It's weird how one part of your brain can be perfectly rational while another part is screaming "I can't breathe and I'm dying" at the same time. I have been convinced that my throat is closing and my tongue is swelling and I can't swallow, meanwhile sipping water and breathing just fine and looking in the mirror to see that my mouth and throat look perfectly normal. Anxiety is a hell of a drug. 

5 minutes ago, Dminches said:

I am not sure why she did.  I don’t see how it helps Randall deal with this anxiety.  Even if he knew it was hereditary, he still needs to come up with strategies and/or take medication for it.  Knowing it is passed down doesn’t really fix anything.

I'm sure it varies for different people, but I do find it a little helpful to know it runs in my family. It's not something I've really discussed in depth with any of my relatives (a little with my dad and one of my cousins) but it helps to know it's not just "something wrong with me" that I should be able to just get over. So I can see how knowing that his biological father struggled with similar issues could be helpful in realizing he's not just broken or something. But no, that in itself doesn't fix it. I have, over time, developed ways to talk myself down when my brain starts going off the rails, and I have taken medication in the past (when it first started, before I had figured out those tools).

[Ohmo]

I'm of the opinion that Marc could be schizophrenic.  As others have said, he's a male in the prime age range for it.  I also thought he said something to Kate in the doorway that was along the lines of "you having to not do this alone"---like Kate told him that Randall was bringing Beth and Kevin was married to Sophie.  That would also explain the "boyfriend" comment.  Marc's attempt to put Kate on a level playing field with Kevin and Randall's relationships.

Creepy could be an indication of abuse, but this could also be Marc's attempt to solve a problem for Kate.  The  Internet did not exist like it does today, so if Marc knew Kate's address was on her application, it might have simply been a source of information for him.  Schizophrenia also  doesn't manifest itself as one big break.  A member of my extended family has the illness and he was very socially awkward in his teens before his first major episode that happened in his 20s (where Kate's Marc is now.)  If he dies by suicide at some future point---the second man in Kate's life to die---that would be enough to cause her tremendous emotional harm.  Kate and Rebecca would not likely be looking for signs of schizophrenia either.

[PRgal]

20 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

I'm of the opinion that Marc could be schizophrenic.  As others have said, he's a male in the prime age range for it.  I also thought he said something to Kate in the doorway that was along the lines of "you having to not do this alone"---like Kate told him that Randall was bringing Beth and Kevin was married to Sophie.  That would also explain the "boyfriend" comment.  Marc's attempt to put Kate on a level playing field with Kevin and Randall's relationships.

Creepy could be an indication of abuse, but this could also be Marc's attempt to solve a problem for Kate.  The  Internet did not exist like it does today, so if Marc knew Kate's address was on her application, it might have simply been a source of information for him.  Schizophrenia also  doesn't manifest itself as one big break.  A member of my extended family has the illness and he was very socially awkward in his teens before his first major episode that happened in his 20s (where Kate's Marc is now.)  If he dies by suicide at some future point---the second man in Kate's life to die---that would be enough to cause her tremendous emotional harm.  Kate and Rebecca would not likely be looking for signs of schizophrenia either.

Is it also possible that Marc is on spectrum?  ASD wasn't diagnosed as frequently in the 80s and 90s as it is today and people who are verbal were frequently missed.  I know a couple of people who weren't diagnosed until they were adults.  
 

[SunnyBeBe]

2 hours ago, ams1001 said:

It's weird how one part of your brain can be perfectly rational while another part is screaming "I can't breathe and I'm dying" at the same time. I have been convinced that my throat is closing and my tongue is swelling and I can't swallow, meanwhile sipping water and breathing just fine and looking in the mirror to see that my mouth and throat look perfectly normal. Anxiety is a hell of a drug. 

I'm sure it varies for different people, but I do find it a little helpful to know it runs in my family. It's not something I've really discussed in depth with any of my relatives (a little with my dad and one of my cousins) but it helps to know it's not just "something wrong with me" that I should be able to just get over. So I can see how knowing that his biological father struggled with similar issues could be helpful in realizing he's not just broken or something. But no, that in itself doesn't fix it. I have, over time, developed ways to talk myself down when my brain starts going off the rails, and I have taken medication in the past (when it first started, before I had figured out those tools).

It's in my family too. Before I had an attack, I could not imagine what it's like.  Once, you do, you know. Thankfully, I was able to accept the diagnosis and get treated. That turned it around for me.  What I don't get are people who have them and refuse treatment. Boggles the mind. I lack sympathy for them, because they are terrorizing those around them with the fallout. That's why Beth should have a say in this.  It's not okay to expose your children to meltdowns after you have refused treatment. It would have to be a deal breaker for me. (I say this as an adult child of parents who suffer with severe anxiety disorder.)

[kili]

Quote

Creepy could be an indication of abuse, but this could also be Marc's attempt to solve a problem for Kate.  The  Internet did not exist like it does today, so if Marc knew Kate's address was on her application, it might have simply been a source of information for him.

Kate got the job when she lived in the old apartment, yet he was able to use the address on her application to find her new house...that's a little creepy.

It could be lousy writing (the continuity fairy is on a break) or great writing (they left that in as a clue that Marc is not all he seems).  Time will tell.

[debraran]

20 minutes ago, kili said:

Kate got the job when she lived in the old apartment, yet he was able to use the address on her application to find her new house...that's a little creepy.

It could be lousy writing (the continuity fairy is on a break) or great writing (they left that in as a clue that Marc is not all he seems).  Time will tell.

I find it odd that they never mentioned him before or alluded to anything. With TIU, so much is discussed, things thread together, I wondered if this was a later idea.  Every conversation about Kate has been Jack only related, she talked to Toby about just Jack effecting her, her self esteem issues, etc. 

When Rebecca said she wanted to think everyone was happy, Kate said, she knew that, so maybe she was covering it up but I can't see it being something too huge or it would have cropped up somewhere.  (or maybe not)

[debraran]

14 minutes ago, debraran said:

I find it odd that they never mentioned him before or alluded to anything. With TIU, so much is discussed, things thread together, I wondered if this was a later idea.  Every conversation about Kate has been Jack only related, she talked to Toby about just Jack effecting her, her self esteem issues, etc. 

When Rebecca said she wanted to think everyone was happy, Kate said, she knew that and she didn't see it either, she would see abuse I would think.  Maybe she meant she didn't see it progressing until it was bad. I can't see it being something too huge or it would have cropped up somewhere.  (or maybe not) It seemed more sad than horrifying.

Edited October 25, 2019 by debraran

[JudyObscure]

23 minutes ago, debraran said:

find it odd that they never mentioned him before or alluded to anything. With TIU, so much is discussed, things thread together, I wondered if this was a later idea.  Every conversation about Kate has been Jack only related, she talked to Toby about just Jack effecting her, her self esteem issues, etc. 

I know, right?  I seem to remember  Kevin saying to Kate one time, something along the lines of, 'I'm not the one who sat outside our burned down house for a year, eating donuts."  It has always been implied that Kate's weight soared at that  particular time and no other.  I also think that if her first boyfriend had died so soon after her father, Kate would always be saying things like, "Everyone I love dies," and there would have been mention of it when Toby had his heart attack. 

[CrystalBlue]

9 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I saw an article this morning that said something about his showing up uninvited like that was a hint as to where they were going with the character (quote from a producer or someone, I think), so yeah, I'm thinking controlling and emotional abuse at the very least. 

Or Mark could start using drugs, which triggers his inherent (and maybe inherited) schizophrenia, which makes him act out violently against Kate.  Flying bats and birds trapped in houses not included. 

[debraran]

10 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

Or Mark could start using drugs, which triggers his inherent (and maybe inherited) schizophrenia, which makes him act out violently against Kate.  Flying bats and birds trapped in houses not included. 

Kate said "I didn't see it either" when Rebecca said she wanted to believe they were all happy. They didn't look horrified, she didn't drop the picture, it was "look". I think he is dead and how it happened might have spiraled from their relationship but if she was abused, I can't see the show ignoring with all the flashbacks and conversations. The show always leans on depressing so I hope it's not too bad.

Edited October 25, 2019 by debraran

[Ohmo]

2 hours ago, PRgal said:

Is it also possible that Marc is on spectrum?  ASD wasn't diagnosed as frequently in the 80s and 90s as it is today and people who are verbal were frequently missed.  I know a couple of people who weren't diagnosed until they were adults.  
 

I could definitely see that as a possibility, too, yes.  The autism spectrum was practically unheard of in popular (non-medical) culture back then.  I'd much prefer a scenario like this or schizophrenia, where Marc is not being abusive toward Kate.  He either has mental illness or there's a disability (being on the spectrum) that would explain his behavior.  I'd like Rebecca and Kate to think of him with empathy instead of fear him as an abusive former boyfriend.

[bettername2come]

I may have to run to IGA and buy the cheap ice cream and turn it into an ice cream cake. Seriously that has blown my mind, but it needs toppings.

I've been in a Princess Bride spiral this week - listening to the audiobook by Cary Elwes, rewatching the movie, actually listening to the credits song at the end all the way through, learning I was born the day they filmed the big kiss scene - so I was happy to see the Princess Bride references. Mandy is such a talented singer. I wish we could have seen Kevin and Sophie deciding to get married. Kevin's 90s hair is on point.

Tess is being a brat in a believable way. Randall is being stubborn in a very Randall way. Kevin's got his own brand of relentless optimism and fixing things for other people going on. 

I loved the scene of all the guests listening to Rebecca yell at the kids. No wonder Miguel and Beth get along so well - they've been dealing with the Pearsons' issues together since day one. 

I figure the boyfriend was abusive. Wondering if he could've been suicidal. 

[Neurochick]

One of the things I like about this show is that the characters all make mistakes, they fuck up things all the time because they're human.  Even Jack, the "perfect dad" wasn't perfect, he told his family that Nicky was dead, not very saint like at all.

But that's life.  Sometimes I think we punish people for not being perfect, for not saying the "right" things at the right time, for fucking up.  But being human is fucking up and then trying again the next day.  The Pearsons are NOT the perfect family at all, they try to be, but it just doesn't always work.  

I love Bondy's take on this episode.

[bros402]

9 hours ago, PRgal said:

Is it also possible that Marc is on spectrum?  ASD wasn't diagnosed as frequently in the 80s and 90s as it is today and people who are verbal were frequently missed.  I know a couple of people who weren't diagnosed until they were adults.  
 

Yeah, I wasn't formally diagnosed with autism until last year - my mom suspected it most of my life, but my doctors would brush her off because "he has enough diagnoses already"

The only one who listened to her was a pediatric neurologist who is well known in NJ (at least in the education community), but he more focused on my other neurological issues.

I probably could have benefited from social skills training

and therapy starting in childhood

[ElectricBoogaloo]

No one talks badly about Beth's three favorite people

[Crs97]

Hope Annie and Deja were out of the house for that talk.

[lucindabelle]

On 10/25/2019 at 8:43 AM, ams1001 said:

I saw an article this morning that said something about his showing up uninvited like that was a hint as to where they were going with the character (quote from a producer or someone, I think), so yeah, I'm thinking controlling and emotional abuse at the very least. 

Getting that vibe too. They didn’t need to put in a line about how he knew her address at all: time has gone by, for all we know he’s picked her up or dropped her off. So that was deliberate.

fhat said I didn’t take the “boyfriend” comment as a bad thing- to me it felt more like she doesn’t know if she can call me that yet and I’m letting her know it’s ok. 
 

I think the gesture alone could be taken different ways- it’s a little forward but then again he’s not wrong that this situation (twin comes home married!) is extreme and he’s trying to help.
 

But with hindsight if he does reveal to be abusive makes sense as well.

i guess they have to come up with some reason a slim kate with a nice boyfriend loses the boyfriend and gains so mich weight. I wish just once people would just grow apart etc like they do in real life. Not everything is the result of death abuse drugs alcohol...

[meep.meep]

On 10/24/2019 at 4:45 AM, Johnny Dollar said:

For some reason, grown adults calling each other “babe” really grates on me. Please stop. 

Maybe they are practicing for when they go on the Amazing Race.

On 10/24/2019 at 1:22 PM, icemiser69 said:

I want to know what happened to the bird.  Why the heck wasn't there a screen in the window to stop the bird from flying into the house?  

When birds fly into my house, they come in through the open kitchen door.  They see through my dining and living rooms to the plate glass window in the front, and think they can just fly through.  Then they get stuck.  Birds are stupid.

Beth said "three of my favorite people"  not her three most favorite people.

And why is it Beth's job to tell about William's anxiety attacks?  Why couldn't William have told his son about them himself?

[debraran]

I just got a bird out of my house, not sure how it got in but suspect my daughter kept screen door open for dog to come back in.  If you darken room and keep door open it will find it's way out. Of course Jack didn't have google but what he was doing was a bit bizarre. lol

Edited October 26, 2019 by debraran

[CandysWrapRoom]

On 10/23/2019 at 8:43 AM, icemiser69 said:

His father was using food as a reward.  I imagine if his kids were acting poorly, he would withhold food.  

Jack giving out ice cream as a reward to his kids probably contributed to Kate's issues with food.

That was normal then, though. We know better now, but we didn't then. So while I'm wearing 2019's glasses, I know this is bad, the 50's? and 90's glasses don't show the same picture. I can't blame him.

[PRgal]

11 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

Getting that vibe too. They didn’t need to put in a line about how he knew her address at all: time has gone by, for all we know he’s picked her up or dropped her off. So that was deliberate.

fhat said I didn’t take the “boyfriend” comment as a bad thing- to me it felt more like she doesn’t know if she can call me that yet and I’m letting her know it’s ok. 
 

I think the gesture alone could be taken different ways- it’s a little forward but then again he’s not wrong that this situation (twin comes home married!) is extreme and he’s trying to help.
 

But with hindsight if he does reveal to be abusive makes sense as well.

i guess they have to come up with some reason a slim kate with a nice boyfriend loses the boyfriend and gains so mich weight. I wish just once people would just grow apart etc like they do in real life. Not everything is the result of death abuse drugs alcohol...

What if Marc is actually normal and he and Kate have a very serious relationship only to have him be killed in some sort of tragic manner (e.g. 9/11)?

Edited October 27, 2019 by PRgal

[DebbieM4]

On 10/22/2019 at 10:04 PM, CleoCaesar said:

Plus it felt like Shonda Rhimes wrote so many of the weird speeches. That is not a compliment. People just don't just stand there and monologue at each other (example: Kevin asks Cassidy's ex-husband why he bothered to come to the event and ex-husband starts rambling how he met Cassidy at 15 when she bumped into him in the hallway and blah blah blah blah...).

I hated all of that.  Kevin had been doing great up to that point.  I liked the way he was interacting with Nick, Cassidy, the kid, everyone.  And then he very inappropriately confronted Cassidy's husband.   He had no right to criticize and question him like that.  He came on way too strong.

And then yes - the long-winded reply.  There are so many better ways we could have been given that insight into the husband's point of view.  It was incredibly unrealistic.

On 10/22/2019 at 10:09 PM, MissT said:

I’m 52, from the Northeast and clearly remember boxed ice cream.  I used to hate that the top never really closed.   Breyer’s mint chocolate chip!   

I'm from Long Island, and I remember it well.  We never sliced it, though.  I remember my parents scooping it out from the middle, the same as they would if it had been in any other kind of container.   You're right - The top never really closed properly.

[DebbieM4]

On 10/23/2019 at 2:56 AM, bros402 said:

I'm hoping the boyfriend isn't physically/sexually abusive.

I hope that's not it too, even though they seem to be making it look that way.

I'm wondering, though, if perhaps he dies.  Maybe he's abusive AND he dies.  Or maybe there's no abuse at all.  Maybe he becomes ill or whatever and dies, and it's yet another loss for Kate.  Not as major a loss as her Dad, but another loss on top of that one.  

Rebecca said something about having no idea it was happening, and Kate said she had no idea either.  That could apply to abuse, but it also could be that he was hiding a serious illness.

He does seem to be somewhat controlling, but I'm not sure that necessarily means abuse.  They could be throwing us a curveball.  I hope so.  A storyline about abuse is not appealing to me at all.

[crowsworks]

On 10/23/2019 at 8:03 PM, Neurochick said:

What's wrong with the hairstyle?  I think it looked nice on Tess.  Better than flat iron or relaxed.

Sometimes I feel this way too.  Then I'm like, "shit let's just enjoy this show and not worry about things like finances and how do these people have money to do blah blah blah...it's TV, not a documentary."  

At first I thought that Kate's reaction to her former boyfriend's picture was because he might have been abusive to her in some way.  But the show likes to mess with our heads because so many of us are hypersensitive to abuse these days.  

Sometimes I think anxiety isn't so much a mental illness as a reaction to the world around you.  Bad stuff has gone on since the beginning of time but most people never knew about it unless it happened either to them or someone they knew.  Today, we're aware of all types of horrors, that's why when I saw Kate's reaction t her boyfriend, the first thing that came into my head was, "he probably raped her."  

Kate's self-declared Boyfriend ... This is where you miss 'Pittsburgh Dad' Jack. He'd have shook the boy's hand, welcomed him and when they were alone he'd have mentioned how easy it is to hide a body here...strip mines, rivers, rugged forests...all in a very deadly quiet, measured voice. No one would have messed with Jack's darling.

Edited October 27, 2019 by crowsworks
no how

[DebbieM4]

On 10/23/2019 at 9:30 PM, theatremouse said:

And I want Randall to STFU. Not only did you blow off the councilman you already blew off, you shared details that were not yours to share. Tell him the school called and you have to go get your kid. No more info! Boundaries, Randall. So rude.

That was not cool at all.  He just should have said it was a call from his child's school and he had to go.  Not only should he be protecting his family's privacy, but someone with his resume and life experience should be better at choosing the right words and using discretion overall.

[Crs97]

  ON 10/23/2019 AT 9:30 PM,  THEATREMOUSESAID: 

And I want Randall to STFU. Not only did you blow off the councilman you already blew off, you shared details that were not yours to share. Tell him the school called and you have to go get your kid. No more info! Boundaries, Randall. So rude.

That was not cool at all.  He just should have said it was a call from his child's school and he had to go.  Not only should he be protecting his family's privacy, but someone with his resume and life experience should be better at choosing the right words and using discretion overall.

I have the same reaction, but now feel sad that I do because I find myself wondering if it just helps keep the stigma attached to mental illness.  If he had said his daughter broke her arm or got the flu, we wouldn’t be yelling about boundaries. I feel very conflicted.

[ShadowFacts]

5 hours ago, crowsworks said:

Kate's self-declared Boyfriend ... This is where you miss 'Pittsburgh Dad' Jack. He'd have shook the boy's hand, welcomed him and when they were alone he'd have mentioned how easy it is to hide a body here...strip mines, rivers, rugged forests...all in a very deadly quiet, measured voice. No one would have messed with Jack's darling.

That's funny.  Rebecca's dad tried a version of that with Jack and we know it didn't work.  So Jack might have tapped into that experience and finessed it a little more. 

[gibasi]

On 10/24/2019 at 1:47 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

ETA: Kate said she was eight credits short of her degree. I don't remember if she ever made it clear if she meant eight units or eight courses. Eight units is not a full course load so that could be finished in one semester/quarter. Eight courses is a lot to take at once but it depends on what the classes are. At some school you have to get permission to take more than six classes at once. But since Kate managed to finish her last eight credits at community college during her pregnancy, I'm guessing it as eight units (not eight classes).

Jack was also in the military so I’m guessing Rebecca would receive his monthly pension?
 

I don't know of any colleges that allow you to finish your BA at a community college. Of course she could have taken online classes.

My husband was drafted about the time Jack went in the military. There was no military pension. Maybe it is different if you weren't drafted but I would think you had to serve a certain amount of time.

[debraran]

6 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

That was not cool at all.  He just should have said it was a call from his child's school and he had to go.  Not only should he be protecting his family's privacy, but someone with his resume and life experience should be better at choosing the right words and using discretion overall.

I was shocked the writers did that also. No way of Tess knowing but so wrong. Plus he didn't look moved by it, probably thinking, this will pass, you are leaving for that?  I would have said emergency with my kid and left and let him think "ER" or something. Still might be angry but who cares.

[ams1001]

7 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I have the same reaction, but now feel sad that I do because I find myself wondering if it just helps keep the stigma attached to mental illness.  If he had said his daughter broke her arm or got the flu, we wouldn’t be yelling about boundaries. I feel very conflicted.

I agree on the sentiment, but I think the person with the mental illness should be the one to decide how and with whom to discuss it. A parent shouldn't be thoughtlessly broadcasting their child's struggles to their workplace (especially since he has such a public job with people who might be interested in discrediting him; we all know a politician's kids are not off limits to a lot of people, even though they should be).

Edited to add: especially when this is the first time your kid is dealing with this. She doesn't know what's happening (my first panic attack, I was terrified and didn't know what was going on; I was about a decade older than Tess, too). She's in no place to decide "I want to talk about this to lessen the stigma" and certainly her father shouldn't be telling people she doesn't even know before he's even made sure she's okay. She needs a chance to get a handle on it first.

Edited October 27, 2019 by ams1001

[jalady]

OK, I absolutely LOVED Beth's hot sauce gift because: 1) I am Jamaican; and 2) it is my very favorite hot sauce from Jamaica (Pickapeppa).  You can't find it in the DC area (only the brown one, which is flavorful, but not hot) so I always steal some when I visit my parents or ask my relatives in NYC to bring me some when they visit.  I'm assuming she took it from her family's stash as well, LOL.

Second, my high school boyfriend always used to pick my mother's roses and bring them to me as a gift.  She was NOT amused.  But I found that scene with Kate's boyfriend very relatable and didn't ascribe anything to it other than a poor young man trying to make a nice gesture.  The scene with the picture at the end says there's more to his story, but I don't think the flower picking/stealing has anything to do with his "issue(s)". 

[chitowngirl]

Perhaps the “boyfriend” falls into love immediately and if/when Kate rejects him, it sends him into a downward spiral of some sort.

[Neurochick]

11 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

That was not cool at all.  He just should have said it was a call from his child's school and he had to go.  Not only should he be protecting his family's privacy, but someone with his resume and life experience should be better at choosing the right words and using discretion overall.

Maybe, but I think that's the problem with Randall and I like that he's not shown as this perfect person.  He messes up sometimes, just like the rest of us humans.  

Randall always wants to make sure that everybody is okay; but sometimes when you do that, you neglect your own health and boundaries.  

[DebbieM4]

26 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Maybe, but I think that's the problem with Randall and I like that he's not shown as this perfect person.  He messes up sometimes, just like the rest of us humans.  

Randall always wants to make sure that everybody is okay; but sometimes when you do that, you neglect your own health and boundaries.  

He is fiercely protective of his girls.  I like him (most of the time), and I understand that he’s not perfect, but it seems to me that the Randall we know would have been brief in that moment.  Yes, he wants to make sure that everyone is ok, and so his immediate goal would have been to get to his daughter quickly, help her, and protect her.   I’m pretty sure the protective aspect would have kicked in for him immediately.

Of course he messes up sometimes,  but it didn’t seem to me like the kind of mistake he would make.  I saw it more as clumsy/lazy writing than anything else.

[gonzosgirrl]

12 minutes ago, DebbieM4 said:

He is fiercely protective of his girls.  I like him (most of the time), and I understand that he’s not perfect, but it seems to me that the Randall we know would have been brief in that moment.  Yes, he wants to make sure that everyone is ok, and so his immediate goal would have been to get to his daughter quickly, help her, and protect her.   I’m pretty sure the protective aspect would have kicked in for him immediately.

Of course he messes up sometimes,  but it didn’t seem to me like the kind of mistake he would make.  I saw it more as clumsy/lazy writing than anything else.

The thing is, it was probably a big shock to the system to hear this particular news about his daughter. Not 'worse' than if she'd broken her arm or had some other kind of illness. To me, he wasn't thinking rationally in the moment - he didn't divulge the information with forethought, it was traumatic for him to find out he maybe passed on the one thing he didn't want to.

[Crs97]

Am I wrong in thinking that a panic attack doesn’t have to mean an underlying mental condition?  Tess is in a new school in a new town - not surprising that she would feel overwhelmed.  I would never share more about my children’s story than they would want, but I don’t know that they would consider Randall’s sharing a betrayal.  Clearly the show is writing Tess as someone who would be bothered, and Randall should have known that.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

Am I wrong in thinking that a panic attack doesn’t have to mean an underlying mental condition?  Tess is in a new school in a new town - not surprising that she would feel overwhelmed.  I would never share more about my children’s story than they would want, but I don’t know that they would consider Randall’s sharing a betrayal.  Clearly the show is writing Tess as someone who would be bothered, and Randall should have known that.

I would consider feeling anxious to such an extent that you have a panic attack a mental condition- suffering from anxiety is very different than “feeling anxious”(which every human being will feel sometime in their life). Just like “feeling depressed”(which happens sometime to everyone) is very different than having depression. 
 

Getting Tess a therapist and tools to deal with her anxiety so she doesn’t have panic attacks (or minimizes them) is a good thing. A panic attack isn’t a typical response to something like a new school or friends or regular stressors of life. She had one because her anxiety isn’t being managed as it should. 

[Snickerdoodle]

On 10/22/2019 at 10:14 PM, ByaNose said:

I’m from the Northeast (Philly) & don't have any recollection of this. I will need to confer with my 85 year old parents. LOL!!! Also, mint chocolate chip (green) is my favorite ice cream.  

I'm also from Philly and have definitely had ice cream in a box. This is back when you got an actual half gallon of ice cream.  I haven't seen it sold like that in maybe 20 years  I wonder where Uncle Nicky found that brick of ice cream.

[ShadowFacts]

3 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

He is fiercely protective of his girls.  I like him (most of the time), and I understand that he’s not perfect, but it seems to me that the Randall we know would have been brief in that moment.  Yes, he wants to make sure that everyone is ok, and so his immediate goal would have been to get to his daughter quickly, help her, and protect her.   I’m pretty sure the protective aspect would have kicked in for him immediately.

Of course he messes up sometimes,  but it didn’t seem to me like the kind of mistake he would make.  I saw it more as clumsy/lazy writing than anything else.

The Pearsons are chronic over-sharers, we have seen it many times.  Nicky is about the only one without the affliction, that's one of the things I like about him.  I think Randall blabbering was pretty in character.  I just hope that Tess doesn't find out about it.

[DebbieM4]

5 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

The Pearsons are chronic over-sharers, we have seen it many times.  Nicky is about the only one without the affliction, that's one of the things I like about him.  I think Randall blabbering was pretty in character.  I just hope that Tess doesn't find out about it.

Yes, for sure they are over-sharers.   But this seemed like awkward/clumsy/lazy writing to me.

I like that Nicky is a man of a few words too.  I loved little Nicky,  and wasn’t sure how much I would like the grown-up, damaged version.  But there’s something intriguing about him.   And the few words he says. 

[MissLucas]

I wonder if they're not throwing us a massive curve-ball with Kate's boyfriend. Maybe he's not a perpetrator but a victim of domestic abuse and that's why he's so eager to become part of Kate's life? And that was what neither Rebecca nor Kate saw 'happening'. 

[Snickerdoodle]

On 10/24/2019 at 7:56 AM, BetyBee said:

Maybe Randall's next big breakdown will be when he realizes that they forgot to pack Annie when they moved!

For real.  I was thinking we had another Judy Winslow scenario on our hands!

[bros402]

19 hours ago, gibasi said:

I don't know of any colleges that allow you to finish your BA at a community college. Of course she could have taken online classes.

Same. My college had a rule that you had to complete at least 32 credits at the school to get a Bachelors, 24 of which were upper class courses, or something along those lines. They had special exemptions for people who matriculated before 1990, which would definitely not include the Pearsons

[debraran]

11 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

Yes, for sure they are over-sharers.   But this seemed like awkward/clumsy/lazy writing to me.

I like that Nicky is a man of a few words too.  I loved little Nicky,  and wasn’t sure how much I would like the grown-up, damaged version.  But there’s something intriguing about him.   And the few words he says. 

I love that about Nicky, Griffin plays him so well, when he wanted a drink, no words were needed, you could read it on his face, you could read all his emotions. No speech kind of guy which is a nice balance.

Yes, I hope that Randall's slip was sloppy writing and not that the councilman will be at a dinner and ask Tess how she is feeling. 😦

[Kath94]

On 10/22/2019 at 10:32 PM, MsJamieDornan said:

We had Kemps boxed ice cream . We only sliced it if we were going to use the whole thing. Otherwise the damn box wouldn't close.

Miguel still bugs me.

Same thing here with Thrifty brand ice cream.  If you tried to scoop it from the box, you ended up tearing the corner.  Only took the box apart for "slices" when using the whole box, usually orange sherbet-vanilla checks on a holiday.

[Mrs Shibbles]

My thoughts on Kate’s “boyfriend”:

Kate’s expression about the photo was more sad than angry.  I also don’t see him as being abusive, but who knows where the writers will go.  

A lot of the things he did reminded me of Mr.  Shibbles back In the day, (he picked wildflowers for me), and we have been happily married for  22 years.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Re: the alternative theories about Marc dying, being from an abusive family, or anything that does not involve him being an abusive asshole to Kate - the reason I assumed he would turn out to be abusive is not just the inappropriate way he turned up to a family dinner uninvited after looking up her address at work (although those were definitely some huge red flats). It's also because of what Rebecca and Kate said when they found his picture in the piano bench:

Quote

Rebecca: I was trying so hard to hold it together that year after your father died. And I wanted to believe so badly that you kids were happy. I'm so sorry I didn't see what was happening.

Kate: I didn't see it, either.

To me, that says that although Kate seemed happy, something was going on with Marc but neither she nor Rebecca realized what was really going on until later aka emotional or physical abuse.

On 10/27/2019 at 4:18 AM, gibasi said:

I don't know of any colleges that allow you to finish your BA at a community college. Of course she could have taken online classes.

On 10/27/2019 at 11:53 PM, bros402 said:

My college had a rule that you had to complete at least 32 credits at the school to get a Bachelors, 24 of which were upper class courses, or something along those lines. They had special exemptions for people who matriculated before 1990, which would definitely not include the Pearsons

There was a A LOT of discussion about this last season when this stupid storyline happened. Most four year colleges require you to take the last few courses at the actual university (I went to a UC on the quarter system and they required the last 30 units to be taken there, which is roughly one year).

This allows students the flexibility to go abroad or take some classes at community college at some point during their time at the four year. Some students choose to take summer school at community college because it's cheaper, because the university doesn't provide housing during the summer, or because they are going home for the summer. Other students choose to take some courses at community college so they can finish their gen ed requirements more quickly or because they think it will be easier to get an A there. This also allows people to attend community college (or another university) and then transfer and graduate from the four year.

Someone I know is an admissions counselor at a UC campus so I asked her specifically about Kate's storyline last year. She confirmed that they require you to do the last year of coursework at the university, but she also said that if a student were in Kate's position, it IS possible that they would allow them to take the last few classes somewhere else (the school's motivation behind this is that it increases their graduation rate) but this would be a special circumstance aka the exception to the rule AND it would require the student to, you know, get in touch with the university to get permission to do it. You can't just go take the missing eight units somewhere else and then show up at your old school asking for a degree. Even under normal circumstances, you have to file for graduation the semester/quarter before you actually plan to graduate so that they can do a degree check and make sure that you fulfilled all the requirements for gen ed and your major.  She also said that if the student left the university in good standing (meaning they didn't flunk out or get kicked out for other reasons), the university will usually just readmit them so that they can finish their degree (meaning they wouldn't have to reapply for admission).

What really made no sense about Kate's graduation is that it was at the community college but the entire storyline was about her getting her bachelor's degree. An associate's degree from a community college is not the same thing and would not qualify her for that teaching job. The whole point of her going back to school at the community college was to finish those last eight units so that she could get her bachelor's degree. The community college can't give her a bachelor's degree (there are a handful of exceptions but these community colleges are part of a pilot program offering bachelor's degrees that are not available at UC or CSU campuses and I highly doubt that Kate was planning to get a degree in airframe manufacturing technology or equine and ranch management).