S01.E19: Falling Apart

[Pepper Mostly]

8 hours ago, alegtostandon said:

That's what I understood also.  What I was basically saying (or thinking out loud)  is that my doctor told me arranged marriages are usually set when they are kids and the marriage happens between the ages of 18-29.  He did not meet his arranged wife until right before the marriage,  but there was an agreement to allow both to finish medical school before marrying. 

I just envisioned, after Family Sumit meeting Jenny, Mother Sumit calling her aunts cousins friends neighbor saying "you know that daughter you can't find a husband for? Well...."  

Maybe it was a characteristic of your doctor's caste to have marriages arranged at birth? Because there are websites and resources galore for Indian parents who are looking for matches for their grown kids; or indeed, for enterprising singles to find matches for themselves. I read a book a few years ago, Marrying Anita, by Anita Jain which is a lighthearted take on her search for love via arranged marriage. It was pretty funny. My understanding is that the prospective mates meet up, usually at the bride's parents' home, and they can decide after that meeting if they want to meet again and see if they get on. It seems like a not unreasonable way to go about things! I mean, if both partners want to get married, and the objective is their happiness, they're both motivated to make their marriage successful and look for the best in the other person.

[nytonc]

Why hasn’t loser Pole been able to learn more than please and thank you in Portuguese in the (what seems like) 100 years since his & Karine’s story line started?

Rhetorical question

[nytonc]

14 hours ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

I think guys that do that tend to sneak out at 3am and are never heard from again.

It was three.  The first night is casual, lots of dancing and music.  Nights 2 and three are more formal.  Laura still bitched on night 2 when she was dressed as a Jowly Christmas Tree and sat alone on a couch.  Well that is how they do it so shut it.

With all your valuables 

[nytonc]

11 hours ago, Hellohappylife said:

Another thing that’s been annoying me about Tiffany (or it can also apply to a lot of desperate women) why is she soo dead set on Ronald being this important “father” figure to Daniel?  Millions of Children grow up just fine without a Father In all sorts of different situations, the dad passes away,is in prison, a drug addict or just simply wants nothing to do with the kid.  All women want the guy to be involved but that sadly doesn’t always happen,It seems like a worse gamble of adding in a guy with issues Iike Ronald, compared to having no male figure in his life at all. 

At least give the guy a few years of getting his shit together before getting your kid attached to them. 

Kids don’t easily understand the scientific difference of a  biological father compared to a guy you're dating ,All they know in that moment is another father leaving.

Love your comment. My parents divorced when I was 5 and I didn’t see my father again until I was in my 30’s. My mother remarried a real piece of shit. He delighted in torturing me with mind-fucking. I would have been far better off with no father figure. I see some of that simmering just beneath the surface with Ronald. 

[nytonc]

9 hours ago, nutella fitzgerald said:

You bring up a very good point! If Jenny and Sumit’s relationship was primarily Facebook-based, how would she have missed him being tagged in wedding photos or people posting congratulatory messages on his profile when he got married?

He probably had at least 2 fb profiles. The fake one he met Jenny under and possibly a real one for India friends & family. Jenny obviously wasn’t too savvy about social media or she could have reverse image searched the original fake profile pic and found the profile or website he copied it from.  That’s the first thing I would do if someone showed a romantic interest in me. I’m really surprised how many woman get scammed that way. 

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, nytonc said:

Why hasn’t loser Pole been able to learn more than please and thank you in Portuguese in the (what seems like) 100 years since his & Karine’s story line started?

Rhetorical question

And Karine has learned so much more? 

[nutella fitzgerald]

2 hours ago, nytonc said:

He probably had at least 2 fb profiles. The fake one he met Jenny under and possibly a real one for India friends & family. Jenny obviously wasn’t too savvy about social media or she could have reverse image searched the original fake profile pic and found the profile or website he copied it from.  That’s the first thing I would do if someone showed a romantic interest in me. I’m really surprised how many woman get scammed that way. 

I get that he had the Michael Jones profile in addition to his Real Sumit profile, but when he admitted to Jenny that he was Sumit and not Michael Jones, I don't think he had thought ahead to create a Fake Sumit profile. I just doubt he had the sense to anticipate having to cover up an eventual wedding and marriage, since at that point, he was still under the delusion that his parents would want a daughter-in-law their age.

The picture of Jenny's first visit to India that's been floating around (the one with Mother Sumit and her BFF) was dated 2013, and when Sumit admitted to being married for two and a half years, Jenny had been camped out at the Delhi love nest for around five months. Earlier in the season, we saw Jenny celebrate an early Christmas with her daughters and grandkids because she would be in India on Christmas Day, so that puts Sumit's wedding date sometime in the fall of 2016.

[iwasish]

3 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

And Karine has learned so much more? 

She is going to class and she did make an effort with Poles mother. 
 

I’m no Karine fan, she’s lazy and immature. She should have dumped Pole long ago. I think she was very warm to Poles mother and it did seem like she was hoping mother Pole could give her some tips for dealing with Pole. 

[Persnickety1]

15 hours ago, nutella fitzgerald said:

You bring up a very good point! If Jenny and Sumit’s relationship was primarily Facebook-based, how would she have missed him being tagged in wedding photos or people posting congratulatory messages on his profile when he got married?

I'm thinking maybe he kept communicating with Jenny under the original catfishing page "Mike Jones."  Dumb ass Jenny probably wouldn't have had the sense to snoop around once she knew his real name.  

[Gobi]

11 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

I'm thinking maybe he kept communicating with Jenny under the original catfishing page "Mike Jones."  Dumb ass Jenny probably wouldn't have had the sense to snoop around once she knew his real name.  

His own page might not be in English, and Jenny wouldn’t have a clue as to what it said.

[Persnickety1]

34 minutes ago, Gobi said:

His own page might not be in English, and Jenny wouldn’t have a clue as to what it said.

And I can honestly envision her seeing pics of SumBitch and his new bride and assuming he was just celebrating a friend's wedding 😄 

[Mrs. Hanson]

1 hour ago, Persnickety1 said:

And I can honestly envision her seeing pics of SumBitch and his new bride and assuming he was just celebrating a friend's wedding 😄 

She is delusional enough to think that.

[magemaud]

8 hours ago, nytonc said:

Why hasn’t loser Pole been able to learn more than please and thank you in Portuguese in the (what seems like) 100 years since his & Karine’s story line started?

At least he could have learned the word “divorce” since he brings it up constantly. 

[alegtostandon]

Quote did not attach...reposting with quote 

Edited October 4, 2019 by alegtostandon

[antfitz]

I haven't seen one of these couples yet that should have gotten married or should get married! Loserville.  If you can't find someone around your own age that is decent over here, you won't find him over there.(Over there is any foreign country you choose.)

[RealReality]

20 hours ago, alegtostandon said:

That's what I understood also.  What I was basically saying (or thinking out loud)  is that my doctor told me arranged marriages are usually set when they are kids and the marriage happens between the ages of 18-29.  He did not meet his arranged wife until right before the marriage,  but there was an agreement to allow both to finish medical school before marrying. 

I just envisioned, after Family Sumit meeting Jenny, Mother Sumit calling her aunts cousins friends neighbor saying "you know that daughter you can't find a husband for? Well...."  

When I was a jr/Sr in high school my friend left for India to an arranged marriage.  We lost touch, but at some point she went to medical school (and maybe her husband did too) and now she is a cardiologist, professor and has three kids with her husband from the marriage.  So something happened to her around that age range.  

[alegtostandon]

15 hours ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Maybe it was a characteristic of your doctor's caste to have marriages arranged at birth? Because there are websites and resources galore for Indian parents who are looking for matches for their grown kids; or indeed, for enterprising singles to find matches for themselves. I read a book a few years ago, Marrying Anita, by Anita Jain which is a lighthearted take on her search for love via arranged marriage. It was pretty funny. My understanding is that the prospective mates meet up, usually at the bride's parents' home, and they can decide after that meeting if they want to meet again and see if they get on. It seems like a not unreasonable way to go about things! I mean, if both partners want to get married, and the objective is their happiness, they're both motivated to make their marriage successful and look for the best in the other person.

I'll be honest,  the only knowledge I have of the Indian culture is from what my doctor told me and what I see on TV.   Dr K would go back every year to visit his parents. The pictures he showed me were beautiful!   But, the book you mention reminds me of a movie we saw,  down to meeting in the families home as adults.  Wonder if it was based on this book.

[Pepper Mostly]

I'm interested in India, and I like Indian writers,(fiction and non fiction) so I've gleaned a fair amount! If you're a reader I recommend Jumpa Lahiri's books, and of course the above mentioned "Marrying Anita". 

[Mothra]

6 hours ago, alegtostandon said:

I'll be honest,  the only knowledge I have of the Indian culture is from what my doctor told me and what I see on TV.   Dr K would go back every year to visit his parents. The pictures he showed me were beautiful!   But, the book you mention reminds me of a movie we saw,  down to meeting in the families home as adults.  Wonder if it was based on this book.

This reminds me of an Indian doctor I worked with (her husband was also a doctor), in her mid-thirties, well-established and respected, in a teaching hospital with an academic title.  She had had a baby the previous year, and her parents were coming to the US to visit and admire their grandchild.  So frightened was she of her parents' disapproval that she fretted every day about what they would say if they learned that she and her husband had been giving their child meat!  They were all vegetarians, but their pediatrician had advised them to give the baby meat for at least a period of her toddlerhood, and they had.  Of course, they were not going to give the baby meat while the grandparents were visiting, but they were worried that the baby would feel hungry and be fussy for the month-long visit, or that one of their friends would slip up and tell on them.

They were only a tiny bit more worried that the grandparents would catch the baby playing in the toilet.

[nytonc]

On 10/3/2019 at 3:02 PM, libgirl2 said:

And Karine has learned so much more? 

To be fair, they’re living in Brazil. If they were in the US, I’d say the same for Karine. 

[monagatuna]

On 10/3/2019 at 5:16 PM, Persnickety1 said:

And I can honestly envision her seeing pics of SumBitch and his new bride and assuming he was just celebrating a friend's wedding 😄 

And if the bride was in traditional Indian dress and not some white lacy confection, Jenny is dense enough to not recognize it as a wedding dress.

[mamadrama]

Jenny: *sob* WHY is this happening?!

Little Miss Drama: Because you sold everything you owned and flew to the other side of the world based on a promise made by a man who had already catfished you once?

[Mrs. Hanson]

14 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Jenny: *sob* WHY is this happening?!

Little Miss Drama: Because you sold everything you owned and flew to the other side of the world based on a promise made by a man who had already catfished you once?

And has done nothing but lie to you?  I know this has been brought up ad nauseum but at SOME point when will a 60 year woman think that a 30 year old guy who started things out by lying has no hidden agenda?  It has nothing to do with race, weight, attractiveness - I am a (somewhat) normal 54 year old, we have seen my pics.  If a 24 year old Nigerian (or Syrian, or Moroccan) was suddenly telling me what a hottie I am and please bring me to US to sleep with you on the first night and oh by the way let's get married ASAP, well.......that would give me pause!

Edited October 5, 2019 by Mrs. Hanson
clarity

[PityFree]

I wanted to recommend the documentary Meet the Patels. It’s the story of one Indian-American man and the match making traditions in India specific to people with his surname. It centers on one family name but I think the ideas of traditions and arranged marriage in the Indian culture are explained very well. Very interesting. Also, it is a very sweet and funny film. I think it is available on Amazon Prime.

ETA:  I also had to comment about how annoyed I got when Paul mocked baby Pierre’s crying. What kind of a father, does that? A crappy one. I wanted to reach through my TV screen and smack Paul.

Edited October 5, 2019 by PityFree

[Boston]

Jenny is so desperate.. very sad ( i honestly believe she knew nothing because she could not be that good an actresss) hope i'm in the right thread

[RealReality]

5 hours ago, Boston said:

Jenny is so desperate.. very sad ( i honestly believe she knew nothing because she could not be that good an actresss) hope i'm in the right thread

I agree, if this is all an act, she was in the wrong business. 

Her stupidity feels very authentic.

[Boston]

again, can someone tell me how you respond to another person.. all good.. we have lost power for 2 days (and it's not even WINTER).. and I came back on and can't figure this out.. thanks

[Gobi]

7 minutes ago, Boston said:

again, can someone tell me how you respond to another person.. all good.. we have lost power for 2 days (and it's not even WINTER).. and I came back on and can't figure this out.. thanks

Click on the "quote" symbol ( " ) at the bottom of the post to which you are responding. Then, type your comment below the box containing the quote.

[Frozendiva]

Guess tomorrow is the season finale. And then the tell nothing.

[peaceknit]

Did anyone else think of Avery when they heard the news today about the bombing of the Kurds/Syria? Is she even back there now?

[Boston]

I just got home and saw the commercial for tonight.. I just want to murder (not really)  that woman.. that poor boy, Daniel.. he is going to be messed up for his whole life thanks to his mother.. if this is a joke by producers, well no one is laughing. That poor child, ripped from the US, living in a military state (not really, but i'm sure it feels like that) and no being sent home (i'm assuming) with no mother cause she is a jackass.. I could go on and on.. but I hope 

Daniel is ok.. sorry the thread stopped

[readheaded]

2 hours ago, Boston said:

I just got home and saw the commercial for tonight.. I just want to murder (not really)  that woman.. that poor boy, Daniel.. he is going to be messed up for his whole life thanks to his mother.. if this is a joke by producers, well no one is laughing. That poor child, ripped from the US, living in a military state (not really, but i'm sure it feels like that) and no being sent home (i'm assuming) with no mother cause she is a jackass.. I could go on and on.. but I hope 

Daniel is ok.. sorry the thread stopped

OMG, I had the same thoughts.  How dare she do that to her son?  I know that sometimes, kids have to endure things because of uncontrollable circumstances, but she CHOSE this shit show for her kid.  It's all so selfish, self-indulgent, and unnecessary.  

Edited October 8, 2019 by readheaded

[Boston]

my head is exploding after watching tonight.. I think I already said that I have good GAYDAR (my best friend John was gay, though he is no longer with us).. anyway TIMOTHY is so gay.. watching on skype with his "girlfriend and his ex".. has he got a brain?????? and the whole Benjamin and Akiny thing.. she is ugly (ok i'm no supermodel) but just gross.. he couldn't find a religious person in the US?.. and then there is POLE AND KARINI.. I think she really liked his mother.. but.. hold, on.. wait for it:  HE IS 35 YEARS OLD, NO JOB (EXCEPT FOR PICKING UP COW SHIT).. NOTHING AT ALL.. HOW ARE THEY living.. I'm sure there is no welfare where she lives.. I think she said she doesn't want a divorce because of that baby (who is very cute).. i'm sure my neighbors love Sunday and Monday nights with me screaming at the tv..(but laughing at Pillow Talk..love that)
 

[watchingtvaddict]

On 10/3/2019 at 6:09 AM, Lily247 said:

For sure, I also thought their baby was conceived purely for legal purposes. And she is definitely trying to get Ronald to the US. And no, she does not look like she is rolling in money. Pregnant women can easily obtain Medicaid if their income is low enough. She is DEFINITELY delivering that baby in the US

And this doesn't make any sense. Because the more dependents she has the higher her income needs to be when she sponsors Ronald to come over. How is she going to make the threshold with another dependent? And does she include her mother and her half sister as part of her household or are there two separate households under one roof? 

Also, was Tiffany only in South Africa for 3 months? That means she was on a tourist visa when she visited and she wasn't looking at any type of spousal visa to remain in SA. 

I agree, she was always planning to go over, get knocked up and the fly back to the States to try and get Ronald over on the spousal visa. Similar to Nicole's plan on getting Azan over after he didn't receive the K-1 visa. 

[readheaded]

1 hour ago, watchingtvaddict said:

And this doesn't make any sense. Because the more dependents she has the higher her income needs to be when she sponsors Ronald to come over. How is she going to make the threshold with another dependent? And does she include her mother and her half sister as part of her household or are there two separate households under one roof? 

Also, was Tiffany only in South Africa for 3 months? That means she was on a tourist visa when she visited and she wasn't looking at any type of spousal visa to remain in SA. 

I agree, she was always planning to go over, get knocked up and the fly back to the States to try and get Ronald over on the spousal visa. Similar to Nicole's plan on getting Azan over after he didn't receive the K-1 visa. 

Not to mention that before she went there, the immigration lawyer she saw pretty much told her that Ronald was probably not going to be able to come to the US because of his criminal history.   She's a moron and I feel sorry for her kids.

[Jeanne222]

On 10/5/2019 at 5:58 PM, PityFree said:

I wanted to recommend the documentary Meet the Patels. It’s the story of one Indian-American man and the match making traditions in India specific to people with his surname. It centers on one family name but I think the ideas of traditions and arranged marriage in the Indian culture are explained very well. Very interesting. Also, it is a very sweet and funny film. I think it is available on Amazon Prime.

ETA:  I also had to comment about how annoyed I got when Paul mocked baby Pierre’s crying. What kind of a father, does that? A crappy one. I wanted to reach through my TV screen and smack Paul.

Keeping in mind Paul is a few French fries short of a happy meal so there's that!!!

[Jeanne222]

2 hours ago, readheaded said:

Not to mention that before she went there, the immigration lawyer she saw pretty much told her that Ronald was probably not going to be able to come to the US because of his criminal history.   She's a moron and I feel sorry for her kids.

I pretty sure we didn't hear the whole story there.  I wonder if the attorney ended with "unless you have a child"!

I do love Daniel.  What a sweet child!

[RoxiP]

On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 6:32 PM, Frozendiva said:

Guess tomorrow is the season finale. And then the tell nothing.

I don't remember where I read it but I recently read that she was in the United States (it could have even been here).  Some woman who was posting said she was from her town and her daughters had gone to high school with her.

[blubld43]

12 hours ago, watchingtvaddict said:

And this doesn't make any sense. Because the more dependents she has the higher her income needs to be when she sponsors Ronald to come over. How is she going to make the threshold with another dependent? And does she include her mother and her half sister as part of her household or are there two separate households under one roof

Typically all persons in any residence designed for one family, are considered one household.

[Wanda]

On 10/5/2019 at 11:57 AM, Mrs. Hanson said:

And has done nothing but lie to you?  I know this has been brought up ad nauseum but at SOME point when will a 60 year woman think that a 30 year old guy who started things out by lying has no hidden agenda?  It has nothing to do with race, weight, attractiveness - I am a (somewhat) normal 54 year old, we have seen my pics.  If a 24 year old Nigerian (or Syrian, or Moroccan) was suddenly telling me what a hottie I am and please bring me to US to sleep with you on the first night and oh by the way let's get married ASAP, well.......that would give me pause!

I’ve posted pictures also, and they are on my Instagram account. I currently have an annoying person obviously catfishing me through IG messages. English not his first language based on syntax and the photos are of what most would consider to be an attractive early 40s white male (not my thing). He’s not taking the hint when I ignore him. Gonna have to send him to Jenny or laura’s IG.

[Lily247]

11 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

I pretty sure we didn't hear the whole story there.  I wonder if the attorney ended with "unless you have a child"!

I do love Daniel.  What a sweet child!

Hmmm. But would they need to establish paternity in order to legally prove its his child ? And to do that, Tiffany will have to fly with the baby to SA for a visit. Which she is probably planning to do once the baby hits 2 weeks. 

Daniel is indeed a sweet and mature child

Edited October 9, 2019 by Lily247

[magemaud]

On 10/8/2019 at 9:01 PM, Lily247 said:

But would they need to establish paternity in order to legally prove its his child ? And to do that, Tiffany will have to fly with the baby to SA for a visit.

Why would she have to go to SA for a DNA test for the baby? 

[Scarlett45]

On 10/8/2019 at 8:01 PM, Lily247 said:

Hmmm. But would they need to establish paternity in order to legally prove its his child ? And to do that, Tiffany will have to fly with the baby to SA for a visit. Which she is probably planning to do once the baby hits 2 weeks. 

Daniel is indeed a sweet and mature child

Since they are married paternity is assumed. No need for the DNA test. 

[watchingtvaddict]

.

Edited October 10, 2019 by watchingtvaddict

[Lily247]

10 hours ago, magemaud said:

Why would she have to go to SA for a DNA test for the baby? 

I guess she doesnt need that DNA test as they are married as another poster pointed out. I forgot they had married

[OrchidThief]

3 hours ago, Lily247 said:

13 hours ago, magemaud said:

Why would she have to go to SA for a DNA test for the baby? 

I guess she doesnt need that DNA test as they are married as another poster pointed out. I forgot they had married

I think the point is that if she was pregnant by a man in the US *before* arriving in SA, Ronald should not be financially liable for a child that isn't his, even though they are legally married. And many posters here commented that she seemed to be more far along than she claimed. I'm not sure how it would work legally in terms of international law, but DNA results can be emailed, I would assume. If it's not his, he should not be on the hook, and our welfare system in the US might pick up at least some of her costs. She may be way ahead of us in terms of scamming the system.

[RoxiP]

1 hour ago, OrchidThief said:

I think the point is that if she was pregnant by a man in the US *before* arriving in SA, Ronald should not be financially liable for a child that isn't his, even though they are legally married. And many posters here commented that she seemed to be more far along than she claimed. I'm not sure how it would work legally in terms of international law, but DNA results can be emailed, I would assume. If it's not his, he should not be on the hook, and our welfare system in the US might pick up at least some of her costs. She may be way ahead of us in terms of scamming the system.

Although Ronald has many faults I really don't think he's fundamentally stupid - and surely he can do basic math.  Since Tiffany gave birth what - a few months ago - he could more than likely add up the number of months since they were first together in South Africa, or whenever she conceived the little girl.  I'm more inclined to believe that TLC messed with the timeline more than Tiffany lying about the paternity of her baby.

[Gobi]

As others have pointed out, since they are married, Ronald is presumed to be the father. He would have to challenge it to prove otherwise. And he would have to be quick. There was a case where I live wherein the man (not a married couple) always denied paternity. He lost the original case and had to pay child support for years. When DNA testing became available, he proved that he was not the father. The court ruled that it didn’t matter anymore, as the kid thought of him as the father (mind you, he did not involve himself in the kid’s life), so he had to continue paying child support.

[Stinamaia]

On 10/1/2019 at 8:22 AM, Kroliosis said:

My understanding is the wife goes to live with the husband's family.  So wife Sumit moved in with family sumit.

This is all dependent on the family. Most young couples who have good jobs set up their own households.  There are many different economic levels in India. Some families are more coercive in arranged marriages. Other families are “ go find your own damn wife.”  

India is #5 on the list of countries with more men than women so I don’t know why his wife’s family wanted a marriage with him or why his family advocated so strongly for Sumit to marry her.  

[Stinamaia]

On 10/3/2019 at 10:34 AM, Pepper Mostly said:

Maybe it was a characteristic of your doctor's caste to have marriages arranged at birth? Because there are websites and resources galore for Indian parents who are looking for matches for their grown kids; or indeed, for enterprising singles to find matches for themselves. I read a book a few years ago, Marrying Anita, by Anita Jain which is a lighthearted take on her search for love via arranged marriage. It was pretty funny. My understanding is that the prospective mates meet up, usually at the bride's parents' home, and they can decide after that meeting if they want to meet again and see if they get on. It seems like a not unreasonable way to go about things! I mean, if both partners want to get married, and the objective is their happiness, they're both motivated to make their marriage successful and look for the best in the other person.

I have a friend who grew up in India - Brahmin caste.  Her mother and father did not have an arranged marriage. My friend has strongly discouraged her mother from trying to arrange a marriage. Her cousin met his wife at university in India and got married when they finished.  Many people have “arranged” marriages but the participants can turn down someone they don’t like.  And I suppose some parents are more controlling than others. Also the children are more disposed to valuing their parents’ decisions. I know my friend takes her mother’s advice very seriously and they talk daily on skype.