S01.E02: 177 Minutes

[formerlyfreedom]

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Kristen, David and Ben are called to investigate a supposed miracle when Naomi Clark, a 17-year-old soccer player, comes back to life after she had been declared dead for almost two hours. Also, Kristen meets with her former boss, Lewis Cormier, at the Queens District Attorney's office where she runs into Leland Townsend.

Airing Thursday, October 3, 2019.

[janeta]

Who the bleep starts an autopsy without undressing and washing the corpse, and with the face????

[2727]

Kind of let down by this episode. I'm already bored with nightmare George and demon Townsend.

[LittleIggy]

57 minutes ago, janeta said:

Who the bleep starts an autopsy without undressing and washing the corpse, and with the face????

Thank you! I was about to post the same. And how did the investigators get all those medical records? Have the writers ever heard of HIPAA or even basic medical confidentiality?

Edited October 4, 2019 by LittleIggy

[janeta]

Much as I love ME I’m not sure I'm going to be able  to make it thru too many more of these. 

I did like the little 4th wall thing with the FX makeup on George though.

Enough with the fighting kids already. 

[raeb23]

14 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

And how did the investigators get all those medical records? Have the writers ever heard of HIPAA or even basic medical confidentiality?

This...at the end of David's talk with the hospital administrator he said something like "i'll leave these records here" and i wondered what else are you going to do with it? They're confidential records that you shouldn't have in the first place. So far everyone seems open to talking to investigators when they have no legal obligation to do so. Are we going to see a case hit a dead end later in the season when ppl refuse to talk to the Church? Or are we going to see the Archdiocese coerce ppl into cooperating?

Also, I thought Kristin was a forensic psychologist then David called her a medical expert. Is she a psychiatrist?

[LittleIggy]

I didn’t understand the medical explanation. How did Naomi suddenly revive after being declared dead? 

[AnimeMania]

47 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

I didn’t understand the medical explanation. How did Naomi suddenly revive after being declared dead? 

Something about her lungs being stiff. Resuscitation probably worked, but they pronounced her dead before they realized it. It just took a long time for her lungs to give her body enough oxygen to function.

This episode was very boring. Disappointing.

Lose the kids, who wants a show about demons threatening children.

Why would a college allow someone with a serious medical condition back onto their sports team.

Finally a scientific explanation of why David "Ayahuasca" Acosta believes in Angels, "he's trippin' balls".

[SamBeckett]

I never thought I’d say this: Christine Lahti’s character bugs me.  No wonder the children are so wild!!! And, yes, they bug me too. And the husband who ‘s away bugs me. It’s all too contrived. And here we are after two episodes and I still am not sure what the lead character is supposed to be doing, what her background is and why she’s considered important. Other than being in most of the scenes, has she actually contributed anything to the solving of the cases. (I have nothing against the actress, though.)

[Chaos Theory]

My guess is that the show is going to go through a bunch of “not a demon/miracle” episode where there is this one detail they just can’t explain away that is going to lead to a bigger story of demons and miracles.

[SamBeckett]

9 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I could have missed it, my vision isn't the greatest, I didn't see a wound on the side of her face at all.  No stitches, no scar.  Nothing.

Normally, I would have missed that too, but there was a very faint scar on her.

But that leads me to ask — who starts an autopsy on the chin? I mean, that is why they cut her there, right?

[2727]

My guess is that the autopsy was started by peeling off the face because the trauma was supposedly to her brain? My real guess is that it was supposed to be creepier that way.

There's no excuse for the still-clothed part, or letting the parents into the autopsy room right before they start to cut her open.

According to the NIH, cardiac resuscitation time in hospitals for unresponsive patients ranges from 16 to 30 minutes, with an average of 20, so I'm a bit dubious about the "answer" in this episode. (I believe racism can subconsciously play a part in emergency health care decisions but couldn't find any studies. I also wouldn't be surprised if older patients are called after less time than younger ones.)

[sempervivum]

I was really looking forward to episode 2, but fell asleep halfway through. I was awake long enough to see David in his churchy looking bedroom, prayerfully wrestling with his 'lust' for mousy little Kristen 🙄

I do like the tech guy and his determination to debunk everything.

[Madding crowd]

I love scary shows but if everything is going to have a rational explanation than what is the point of Michael Emerson’s character not to mention the demon who keeps popping into dreams. The lead character reminds me of the woman who plays Delilah on A Million Little Things.

Also was confused by the fully dressed autopsy and the parents and priest seeing her in that room. And the chin cutting.

[festivus]

I'm not sure what this show is trying to be and frankly, my mind wandered quite a bit during last night's episode. I feel like they are trying to go with the 'things you can't explain' approach because they never did solve the video apparition, even though they decided this girl's resurrection wasn't a miracle. I don't know, I'll give it one more episode because I usually give shows three before I'm out. It feels all over the place though and I don't care for the lead and her bunch of squabbling kids.  

[janeta]

6 hours ago, 2727 said:

My guess is that the autopsy was started by peeling off the face because the trauma was supposedly to her brain? My real guess is that it was supposed to be creepier that way.

Usually they would do an ear to ear incision over the top of the skull and peel the scalp back over the face; that way they can re-glove the skull and stitch up without any obvious scars to the face.  /NotAMedical Examiner  🙂

Medically this ep was just a mess.  Could they seriously not afford a thousand bucks to hire an advisor for half an hour?

And I wasn't surprised that one of Kristen's kids had some potentially awful health problem; I have a feeling they're going to do other things to the rest of the kids as they find themselves needing plot devices.

Edited October 4, 2019 by janeta

[Annber03]

That was a weird way to end the episode. Good music choice, though.

I liked Kristen and David's talk about miracles and prayer. I tend to agree with Kristen overall on that, though if I went through what that poor girl went through and had the weird visions she did, I'd probably be reevaluating a few things about my life, too. 

Didn't mind the kids this episode, myself-I liked the whole thing with them watching a scary movie with their mom. Sure didn't waste any time getting into the "one of her kids may be experiencing something supernatural", though, did they? I'm curious how that'll tie into Laura's issues with her heart.

George would be much more scary if he didn't talk. 

Edited October 4, 2019 by Annber03

[cardigirl]

I had high hopes for this show, because I had loved The Good Wife and BrainDead so much. But this show either telegraphs the surprises so that you know they are coming, or pulls its punches so there is just no impact. 

I hope the writing improves soon. 

[12catcrazy]

I was kind of underwhelmed with this episode.  The premise was good but the execution, not so much.  I think they are showing us cases where it "could" be something supernatural but at the end the team is able to debunk the supernatural theory but it also leaves doubt in the mind of the viewer.  They couldn't 100% figure out why exactly that ghostly image was in the photo, so they just left that one kind of up in the air and the viewer can go "hmmmm".                                                                                                                                                                                     Agreed with previous posters that the autopsy was all sorts of wrong.  That kind of thing insults the intelligence of viewers and they start to lose me with crap like that.  Also, I don't know if the lead actress is really a good actress, or if she has a thing for the guy playing the lead in real life, but all the adoring looks in his direction started to bug me after a while.  So they are already setting this up to where our two leads are going to jump bones or like I said, the actress has a thing for her co-star and nobody is hiding it.   Frankly, I was hoping that David was going to be gay and we wouldn't have to deal with the usual "will they/won't they" crap which seems to translate into "they will" 99.5% of the time. 

And now we also find out about David and his "visions", where apparently they come with a little help from his friends, the magic mushrooms.  So David is not squeaky clean and we are made to wonder about Julia.   BTW, David's vision - the one with the dead people or angels or whatevers floating around a bright light - wasn't this something from William Blake or Dante or??? I know I've seen that image before and it's going to bug me until I remember where.  Ditto about who was singing that song when he was having the vision.  I want to say Nina Simone but not 100% sure about that.  Anybody know?

[Katy M]

So, the daughter's health problem might explain why there is so much student debt left.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Katy M

[Anela]

I didn't like this so much as before, but I like the kids. I loved the show "Medium" with the family, and I liked them watching a show together. I also liked her finding the video from the makeup artist - very much what I could see a real mother doing. 

On the one hand, I don't mind the drug angle, just because I know that some drugs are thought to connect one to the divine. I'm not religious, but my mind is open to a certain extent. I guess I'm agnostic, but I don't believe in demons, and don't want religion shoved down my throat. I don't really know how to feel. Just because I'm watching a TV show, I would like it if not everything is explained by something normal. I'm here to be spooked! My great uncle also died on the operating table, and he was dead for a while. When they brought him back, he was angry, because he'd felt completely at peace, and felt like he was going somewhere good. It changed him in ways (positive ways). 

2 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

Ditto about who was singing that song when he was having the vision.  I want to say Nina Simone but not 100% sure about that.  Anybody know?

That was Nina Simone. I love that song.

[Chaos Theory]

8 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I love scary shows but if everything is going to have a rational explanation than what is the point of Michael Emerson’s character not to mention the demon who keeps popping into dreams. 

They were able to explain everything except the burst of light in the operating room.  My guess is that the show is going to continue with the theme of explaining away everything except that one little thing.  And all of those little things will add up to a big mystery about faith and evil.  

[Fable]

I’m not really feeling this.  I was really hoping this show would have a creepy/eerie atmosphere like the show The Exorcist.  Instead, it is about as scary as Scooby Doo.  I really don’t know how to take the Catholic guy using hallucinogenics.  I understand some cultures consider that to be part of the spiritual experience, but the Catholic Church does not.  I want to like this show, but the only thing of interest to me right now is knowing that is going on with Kristen’s family, to include her mother and husband, because that whole thing just seems so off. 

[Anela]

I meant to ask earlier: do you think that the writer of the show will come into it at some point? I wondered if the character on the streaming show, was there because the writer dreamed of him, too.

[Katy M]

54 minutes ago, Anela said:

I meant to ask earlier: do you think that the writer of the show will come into it at some point? I wondered if the character on the streaming show, was there because the writer dreamed of him, too.

Like the show is really a show even within the show?  I certainly hope not.

[dargosmydaddy]

2 hours ago, Anela said:

I didn't like this so much as before, but I like the kids. I loved the show "Medium" with the family, and I liked them watching a show together.

I was thinking of Medium as well, but I was contrasting the two shows. Medium made the three daughters distinct characters in their own rights-- they had their own personalities, and didn't always get along. Granted we're only two episodes into Evil, but it seems like the daughters here are deliberately presented as a single chaotic unit, and I'm trying to figure out why. The constantly talking over one another and always being together is quickly wearing thin, and I question whether they (particularly the oldest girl... I think someone posted in the pilot thread that the actress is 14, and I'm assuming the character is meant to be at least 12-13) would really always want to be doing everything together. I am still wondering why there has to be four of them, too-- three would have still been enough for chaos and baggage, but might allow for more character development/ individual personalities. 

As for the daughter with the heart condition, I know nothing about such things, but given their shoddy medical knowledge in the main storyline in the episode, does anyone know if this is being presented accurately? Is the kid not a candidate for some kind of valve replacement, or even a heart transplant if the check-up shows a deterioration? I also wondered if Laura was aware of her situation. I really hope not-- I mean, I assume she knows something is wrong with her heart, but surely a nine year old doesn't need to know she could possibly drop dead at any moment and there's nothing she can do to prevent it-- but the way Kristen was talking to David, I wasn't really sure.

[Anela]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

Like the show is really a show even within the show?  I certainly hope not.

No. Like the writer had the same dream, and created the TV show they were watching. So for most of the season, she thinks he's fake, just a dream, when he isn't - although I suppose that wouldn't prove anything either. One person's nightmare becomes a TV show, that's it. 

[LittleIggy]

How many episodes do critics get to see of a new show before it airs? I heard/read some excellent reviews of Evil. That’s why I decided to watch it. Now I’m wondering if/ when the show gets good! 🤨

Edited October 5, 2019 by LittleIggy

[Katy M]

7 hours ago, Anela said:

No. Like the writer had the same dream, and created the TV show they were watching. So for most of the season, she thinks he's fake, just a dream, when he isn't - although I suppose that wouldn't prove anything either. One person's nightmare becomes a TV show, that's it. 

OK, I totally misunderstood.  So, you meant the writer of the movie, not the writer of Evil. That's an interesting thought.  or maybe the "George" knew they were going to watch that movie, so he manifested himself like the movie demon to mess with them.  Assuming he's real.

[Norma Desmond]

I am loving this. I was a big The Good Wife fan and the Kings did not disappoint me here. It's a difficult line to walk and balance - skepticism vs religion, supernatural vs reality - and I wouldn't watch it if was too heavy on the religious aspect, as in preachy. I also don't want to be scared out of my wits, so I'm glad it's not that spooky. True evil is (one of the) manifestations of the human being, and it seems that that is where this is heading. And of course, Mike Coulter, my TV boyfriend. Damn. He is so sexy and that voice.

I'm hooked! Hope it gets at least a full season.

[Anela]

18 minutes ago, Norma Desmond said:

I am loving this. I was a big The Good Wife fan and the Kings did not disappoint me here. It's a difficult line to walk and balance - skepticism vs religion, supernatural vs reality - and I wouldn't watch it if was too heavy on the religious aspect, as in preachy. I also don't want to be scared out of my wits, so I'm glad it's not that spooky. True evil is (one of the) manifestations of the human being, and it seems that that is where this is heading. And of course, Mike Coulter, my TV boyfriend. Damn. He is so sexy and that voice.

I'm hooked! Hope it gets at least a full season.

Hardly anything scares me when it comes to shows or movies. Reality scares me (as you said: humans can be truly evil). I don't watch many things related to serial killers, for that reason. I do like ghost stories, though - I like that little chill up the back, if something actually works. Most of the time, it's "meh" just another horror story with a lot of gore - and I'm not into demons, but the exorcist show creeped me out a few times. 

[HazelEyes4325]

I have to say that while I liked the first episode better, I'm still enjoying this show.  I think that if they develop the main three characters as the season goes on, it can work.  The miracle aspect of this episode didn't do much for me (and didn't make much sense) but all the stuff about Kristen, David, and Aasif Mandvi's character (what is his name???) made it worth my time.

Edited October 6, 2019 by HazelEyes4325

[Frozendiva]

I too liked the first episode better. 

It is X Files lite. The leads don’t interest me much or are particularly compelling. Too many kids, the husband is conveniently away, George the night terror is meh. Why not a possessed doll?

Was hoping more for an Exorcist type show.

[dargosmydaddy]

1 hour ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Aasif Mandvi's character (what is his name???)

Ben. It's a bit confusing for me to have Michael Emerson's character not be Ben (since that was his character on Lost), but it does help me remember AM's character's name!

[TVForever]

Okay, this show isn't perfect. But it's the craziest thing I've seen in a minute.

And I LOVE it so far.

[msrachelj]

On 10/3/2019 at 10:07 PM, janeta said:

Who the bleep starts an autopsy without undressing and washing the corpse, and with the face????

That was really ridiculous and do they slash the side of your face like that? Good Lord, no wonder so many relatives object to autopsies! 

[tennisgurl]

So the miracle wasnt real, but there might have actually been a ghost? But the church doesent really care about ghosts? I am still interested in this show and think that it has potential, but if every episode has a logical explanation, its going to be kind of hard to be all spooky and what not! 

The autopsy was weird, but I was much more confused by the idea that a college would let a student who was legally dead after being injured playing a sport, go right back to playing the sport! 

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, msrachelj said:

That was really ridiculous and do they slash the side of your face like that? Good Lord, no wonder so many relatives object to autopsies! 

All I know from these sorts of things is from television shows and watching an autopsy movie in college, but why were they cutting her face anyway? Don't they start by opening the chest?  Also, if they were going to, um, you know, open the head, I don't think they would do it b y taking off the face.

51 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

So the miracle wasnt real, but there might have actually been a ghost? But the church doesent really care about ghosts? I am still interested in this show and think that it has potential, but if every episode has a logical explanation, its going to be kind of hard to be all spooky and what not! 

I think that the church is concerned about things that will make them look bad.  Miracles are only great PR if they can't be debunked in any way.  Ghosts?  Well, you either believe or don't believe those.  Plus, no one besides the investigators and the two security guards knew about it, so the church wasn't worried about it being a PR mess.

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I think that the church is concerned about things that will make them look bad.  Miracles are only great PR if they can't be debunked in any way.  Ghosts?  Well, you either believe or don't believe those.  Plus, no one besides the investigators and the two security guards knew about it, so the church wasn't worried about it being a PR mess.

It didn't help that the priest and his congregation was claiming he performed a miracle. The church just wanted a thorough investigation before things got out of hand. I don't think the church cares how the investigation turned out just as long as it was thoroughly investigated. 

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

It didn't help that the priest and his congregation was claiming he performed a miracle. The church just wanted a thorough investigation before things got out of hand. I don't think the church cares how the investigation turned out just as long as it was thoroughly investigated. 

They did make a point that the church didn't want to be embarrassed, so I think they were being reactive after the priest ran his mouth.  When someone claims a miracle, it gets a lot of attention, both from those who want to prove it and those who want to debunk it.  When someone claims a ghost, people can sort of take it or leave it.

However, in that scene with David and the head priest (Bishop? Cardinal?  Did they say?), I actually saw a glimmer of what could come in this show.  David, Kristen, and Ben are hired to do a *job* for the church, and they don't have the authority to choose their own investigations.  While the Church wanted to prove/disprove a miracle, David seemed to be looking for some proof of the supernatural and/or divine and, in that moment, the line was clearly drawn between what he wants to do and what he is hired to do.

[tomsmom]

Can the kids go climbing with Dad cuz I can’t take one more “Daughters!!!” 

Seriously, who does that? 

[Mermaid Under]

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what is the point of Michael Emerson’s character 

I know the actor is unfairly limited by his appearance (limited by the entertainment industry, please don't complain to me), but hasn't he played the same mysterious nebbish in every TV show he has been in?

This was the only new network drama that I decided to look into, and so far I'm still waiting to like it.  I like the two leads (and the semi lead techno character-make him a lead, too).  For me, they could lose the daughters, never explain what the hell is up with the husband, minimize exposure to the Mom, and make Michael Emerson's character a real human being, not another boring big bad.

 

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That was really ridiculous and do they slash the side of your face like that? Good Lord, no wonder so many relatives object to autopsies! 

I've assisted at numerous autopsies, and no, no one does that.   You start with the standard Y incision, which they've done on numerous tv shows.  If you have to look at the brain, the incision is made across the top of the head, so it can be hidden in the hair.   Then, the face is peeled down like an orange and the top of skull is taken off  with a bone saw so you can access the  brain.  If there is a specific reason to look at the jaw (cancer is the only reason I can think of) the family would be aware of that.

[RedInk]

On 10/4/2019 at 9:15 PM, Anela said:

I meant to ask earlier: do you think that the writer of the show will come into it at some point? I wondered if the character on the streaming show, was there because the writer dreamed of him, too.

Same here! And I was disappointed that it didn't register with her! Kristen's trying to show her kids a logical explanation, but the demon is straight from the movie creator's dream. Also disappointing lack of shakeup when the revived girl mentioned "the 600" in her vision, which the sociopathic forensic psychologist has mentioned twice. 

Help! Are we certain he's a demon? That was him sitting by the hot priest (I have no character names) when he was praying. So was hot priest imagining him, or is he a demon? 

It's all far-fetched & the day-to-day, non- supernatural makes no sense, but can we all agree that the lead actress studied Holly Hunter in SOTL to craft her American accent?

[rainsmom]

11 minutes ago, RedInk said:

Help! Are we certain he's a demon? That was him sitting by the hot priest (I have no character names) when he was praying. So was hot priest imagining him, or is he a demon?

I think David believes Michael Emmerson's character is the actual devil. The character wasn't really there in the room, but the devil was tempting him.

[Dbolt]

I am just not liking this show. Besides the glaring inaccuracies of the autopsy, they kept changing the timelines on the two deaths. One minute it was three hours before that the woman died from when they called the soccer players death, then  when the drunk priest told the story he had just came to the morgue from the dead woman and he could still feel the warmth from her hand. Also, ME’s character is horrible. And I don’t mean that in a good way, like he is a great villain because he is horrible. There is no way he would get the job as the new Prosecution expert when he was caught suborning perjury. He would open any case up to appeal from the defense. This show appears to be written by people who have no idea how anything works. Not in medicine, law or even how real people react. And if the main character knows that George is just a dream why is she so bothered by what he does in the dream?  She was freaking out about him stabbing the little girl but she knew it wasn’t real. Just sloppy lazy writing 

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Dbolt said:

One minute it was three hours before that the woman died from when they called the soccer players death, then  when the drunk priest told the story he had just came to the morgue from the dead woman and he could still feel the warmth from her hand.

I think he left out the part where he went to the nearest bar in between.

[juliet73]

On 10/4/2019 at 10:41 PM, dargosmydaddy said:

As for the daughter with the heart condition, I know nothing about such things, but given their shoddy medical knowledge in the main storyline in the episode, does anyone know if this is being presented accurately? Is the kid not a candidate for some kind of valve replacement, or even a heart transplant if the check-up shows a deterioration? I also wondered if Laura was aware of her situation. I really hope not-- I mean, I assume she knows something is wrong with her heart, but surely a nine year old doesn't need to know she could possibly drop dead at any moment and there's nothing she can do to prevent it-- but the way Kristen was talking to David, I wasn't really sure.

My son was born with heart issues including his valves. He has had echocardiograms since he was a toddler every six months to monitor his condition and will continue to do so for the rest of his life. If there is a valve problem, he will have it replaced. I find it completely unbelievable that the daughter has a diagnosed valve issue and the doctor basically said "nothing can be done. She has a 50% chance of dropping dead while reading a book."

I'm assuming the daughter's cardiologist and the ME went to the same medical "school". 

[cleo]

I'm assuming the husband bailed bc he couldn't deal with the youngest daughter and she is lying to them and everyone about it except her mother. So they are essentially separated.

I like the kids. I like the show although I see the plot holes after people mention it here ie the autopsy. 

The thing with her and the margarita cans still seems weird to me. I don't think she is supposed to be an alcoholic, but the rows of it in the fridge last week said that to me. And when David asked her why she drank it, she said- bc it's fast. Which again seemed like something a drunk would say. So when she had one this episode it stood out.

I thought David was just going to hook up in the bar.

[Vivigirl10]

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Is the kid not a candidate for some kind of valve replacement, or even a heart transplant if the check-up shows a deterioration? 

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I find it completely unbelievable that the daughter has a diagnosed valve issue and the doctor basically said "nothing can be done. She has a 50% chance of dropping dead while reading a book."

That was stupid, stupid, stupid.  I too thought, um, give her a valve replacement?  No, there's nothing we can do, she's just going to drop like a fly one day.  

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Why would a college allow someone with a serious medical condition back onto their sports team.

My husband and I had a good laugh when she just popped back up on the soccer field.  Hope they washed the blood out of her uniform?  

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but all the adoring looks in his direction started to bug me after a while. 

Me too.  In all seriousness, how many times has she even been around this man yet she's head over heels in love (lust?) with him?  I get love at first sight, but I would hope for a wife and Mom to multiple young children, it would take a little bit longer to get there.  Nope!  She's jumped right in like a single girl looking for her Prince Charming!

The dumping and dragging around of the hospital files was absolutely ludicrous.  HIPAA aside, no hospital worth it's salt in modern day times is going to be still using paper charts (and this hospital's environment lead you to believe it was not some rural, one doc stop).  It would all be completely locked down in the EMR.  But that doesn't make for as dramatic of t.v. as stacks of patient charts being slammed on a desk.  

Moral of the story:  there's just too much stupidity being thrown around for a show that should be portraying itself as thought provoking and "smart".  

[kwnyc]

On 10/4/2019 at 9:27 PM, Chaos Theory said:

They were able to explain everything except the burst of light in the operating room.  My guess is that the show is going to continue with the theme of explaining away everything except that one little thing.  And all of those little things will add up to a big mystery about faith and evil.  

This is totally a job for "God Friended Me." Same city, same concerns.... 😉