S09.E14: The Forever Decision

[Alexander Pope]

4 hours ago, sasha206 said:

This is where I am.  I have to side-eye someone whose virginity is something she values but would actually consider giving up to a stranger from a reality show.  

I don't know why but it also wouldn't surprise me if she eventually realizes she's a lesbian.

I have no opinion on whether or not Iris is gay or straight or asexual, but I did think that there was a better rapport and more emotional closeness between her and Amber than we were shown between her and Keith.  I remember being struck by them going off for a walk alone at the couples weekend. Amber even gave Iris a Bachelor handshake when they got together for the final barbecue!

[cinsays]

15 minutes ago, Alexander Pope said:

I have no opinion on whether or not Iris is gay or straight or asexual, but I did think that there was a better rapport and more emotional closeness between her and Amber than we were shown between her and Keith.  I remember being struck by them going off for a walk alone at the couples weekend. Amber even gave Iris a Bachelor handshake when they got together for the final barbecue!

I found that bachelor handshake to be very odd. Why would she do that?

[Porkchop]

If I was in a relationship with Iris (unlikely since I'm an elderly straight woman), I would have been mentally bailing out after the lemonade incident. Perhaps I would already be concerned about the two sinks arrangement and the no-outside clothing on the bed deal, but the lemonade incident would have convinced me that I could not have a life-long loving relationship with this person. She embarrassed Keith and his friends about a $3 bottle of lemonade! At the same time, I could think she was attractive, admire other things about her, and want the best for her. No matter what Keith did, he would be criticized here because that's what we do! I think he did the best he could with the strange situation he had to deal with. Given Iris's quite calm reaction, I think he may have been honest with her before they went before the cameras.

[Lindz]

Hokay. HOW is this really a question?? Would you rather someone be UNHAPPY in a relationship with you & NEVER tell you, even when they end it OR just tell you what they take issue with? HOW is it right or okay to let someone think things are fine when they're not & then end it, seemingly, out of nowhere?? You'd REALLY like to be on the receiving end of that bs?? It's bizarre. My communication is 90% VERBAL, so eff speaking body language! Congrats if you got a degree in it! 😂 That means you would've left Keith since his signs were so clear. 😂 

[Lindz]

21 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

I like Doug but have always wondered why he doesn't get those three ugly moles on his face  removed.  Surely everybody, along with me, see them and wonder???

Aw man. Remember when Jamie "caught" one?? 😨😨 I thought he had them removed. 

[Lindz]

How much of it was sparing her feelings, portraying a nice guy, or just hiding that he's doing what he's NOT SUPPOSED TO & quitting cuz he dislikes stuff (they're supposed to WORK through issues!!)?? Maybe this needs to be THOROUGHLY explained to contestants. 😒😒

[Hangin Out]

So, I just watched the final decision episode again and the Couples Couch.  On the preview, looks like Jamie and Elizabeth are fighting, and Keith and Iris might have another chance?  These extra little tidbit with Kevin Frazier are confusing.  What the heck is going on?  This show just cannot let go.

[Kareem]

5 minutes ago, Silver Bells said:

So, I just watched the final decision episode again and the Couples Couch.  On the preview, looks like Jamie and Elizabeth are fighting, and Keith and Iris might have another chance?  These extra little tidbit with Kevin Frazier are confusing.  What the heck is going on?  This show just cannot let go.

He also asks if Greg and Deonna are still together while going to a shot of him looking like he lost his pound puppy.  Assumed it was all bs, except for Jamie and Red now Brown who probably haven’t stopped fighting yet.  

[Hangin Out]

1 hour ago, Porkchop said:

If I was in a relationship with Iris (unlikely since I'm an elderly straight woman), I would have been mentally bailing out after the lemonade incident. Perhaps I would already be concerned about the two sinks arrangement and the no-outside clothing on the bed deal, but the lemonade incident would have convinced me that I could not have a life-long loving relationship with this person. She embarrassed Keith and his friends about a $3 bottle of lemonade! At the same time, I could think she was attractive, admire other things about her, and want the best for her. No matter what Keith did, he would be criticized here because that's what we do! I think he did the best he could with the strange situation he had to deal with. Given Iris's quite calm reaction, I think he may have been honest with her before they went before the cameras.

Yes to everything.  Plus, Iris is a child and has OCD, which is very hard to deal with for anyone around her.  In her mind, she may feel sex is dirty and disgusting.  She has 2 sinks, and uses two soaps, one for hands, the other for face.  It’s very hard to deal with a person like that.  Didn’t the experts catch that?  Keith wasn’t even allowed to sit on the bed.

[Lindz]

Deonna says, "family is expanding," I'm guessing they're getting a new pet or something or she said something before that. We know better than to believe the hype editing. 😂

[Hangin Out]

9 minutes ago, Kareem said:

He also asks if Greg and Deonna are still together while going to a shot of him looking like he lost his pound puppy.  Assumed it was all bs, except for Jamie and Red now Brown who probably haven’t stopped fighting yet.  

Couples Couch was two months after decision day, and now we still don’t know what’s going on and who’s with who.  I’m not liking this at all.  It’s like five shows in one., and each one different.

[Elizzikra]

59 minutes ago, Silver Bells said:

Yes to everything.  Plus, Iris is a child and has OCD, which is very hard to deal with for anyone around her.  In her mind, she may feel sex is dirty and disgusting.  She has 2 sinks, and uses two soaps, one for hands, the other for face.  It’s very hard to deal with a person like that.  Didn’t the experts catch that?  Keith wasn’t even allowed to sit on the bed.

In her defense, I have a different soap for hands and face too. But I don’t have separate sinks.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

49 minutes ago, Silver Bells said:

Couples Couch was two months after decision day, and now we still don’t know what’s going on and who’s with who.  I’m not liking this at all.  It’s like five shows in one., and each one different.

...And I heard that next time, there will be 5 couples instead of 4!

(I really hope that's not true.)

[Liberty]

3 hours ago, Porkchop said:

...No matter what Keith did, he would be criticized...

Is it possible that no one likes to be rejected, and would complain about the manner in which the rejection was delivered no matter what that was?

Taking the rejection straight or with a spoonful of sugar it is still a rejection.  Take it and move forward.  Whether one get's fired face to face, via email, on twitter etc., one is still fired.

[Yeah No]

On 9/13/2019 at 11:10 AM, Jeanne222 said:

I wondered if her not showing emotion was one of the problems they had in the marriage.  Maybe being sad and showing it would be all Keith would need.  I think inside Iris is somebody afraid to show their emotions, feelings and longings.

Sometimes people that don't show others how they are feeling come off cold and uncaring which we know wasn't Iris since she was so comforting to Keith when grandma died.

I don't think we ever saw the real Iris!

When Iris is focused on a man as a sexual, real human being her shields are in the up position and the red alert is sounding because she just can't let herself be open and vulnerable to a man in any way, either emotionally or physically.  She assumes all men are going to hurt and take advantage of her due to whatever messed up stuff she was fed as a girl and teenager.  So therefore, no amount of trying to get her to open up would have worked.  I see posts putting the onus on Keith to help ease her into all this, but she is obviously dead set against that because she thinks that the end goal of that journey is to get her into bed....and therefore hurt her.  She can't disassociate emotional vulnerability from leaving herself open to being hurt and used.  So therefore nothing Keith would have done would have helped her get over her hang ups and therapy is her only hope.  I think Keith knew that in his gut and decided it was best not to continue to bang his head against a wall.

I think she was supportive of Keith when his grandmother died because she has other childhood morality "tapes" that supersede the "men = bad" tapes and in that one instance could suspend her fears and treat him as just a friend and not a threat.  I think Keith thinks that if he stays in touch with Iris and shows her he likes her as a friend first and has no marital/sexual expectation of her she might start to see him more as a neutral human being and less of a sexual threat, and in that way he might get his foot in the door to her emotions a little at a time.  Lots of luck with that, Keith.

[boobtube]

Deleted

Edited September 15, 2019 by boobtube

[Lindz]

6 hours ago, Porkchop said:

No matter what Keith did, he would be criticized here because that's what we do! I think he did the best he could with the strange situation he had to deal with.

Nah. If he actually TRIED & worked through his issues with her instead of collecting red flags/strikes & quitting, I'd respect him. If he would've been upfront with her & told her what he was thinking, that would've been his best. That simple. He's nothing special, EVERY spouse tells EVERYONE EXCEPT their spouse their feelings, but most still try. 😂

[Yeah No]

On 9/13/2019 at 11:18 AM, DrewPaul2010 said:

Actually not half of all marriages end up in divorce. The 50% figure is due to frequent fliers who divorce 2 or more times. Another shocking statistic, second marriages are more likely to fail then first marriages...

That's true.  I've been doing some reading on this and that 50% statistic is way out of date and not based on actual numbers but a projection.  It doesn't factor in age (very young people divorce at a much higher rate than those over about 25 or so) , level of education (the higher the level of education, the much lower the divorce rate).  Also, the 50% rate hasn't been anywhere near true since around 1980.  It's theorized that the new social freedoms of the '70s made people feel allowed to divorce that might not have otherwise done so, so the divorce rate soared for a while but has gone down considerably and consistently ever since.  Also, the divorce rate as it has traditionally been computed is a different number from the percentage of all marriages that have ever ended in divorce (hard to explain but it's true).  The newly computed percentage is that the highest the true divorce rate has ever been is about 30% of all marriages, which include second marriages.  Of first marriages, the number of people still married to their spouse is around 72%, but for the 28% not still married to their first spouse, some of those marriages ended with the death of a spouse, not divorce, which means the true number is lower than 28%.  Also, 65% of people married to their second spouse are still married to them, again being unable to factor out people losing spouses to death.  They say it's very hard to get the actual figures on divorce for some reason. 

Also, and this is interesting, the divorce rate is continuing to fall these days primarily because young people are delaying marriage, and the older people marry the lower their chances of divorce.

This article entitled The Divorce Rate is Much Lower than You Think is absolutely fascinating and based on a book written on the subject.

[Yeah No]

On 9/13/2019 at 5:22 PM, Soup333 said:

I wonder. Greg and Deonna are both admittedly very religious Christians. I highly doubt the church they’re attending/have attended in the past has taught anything other than a traditional patriarchal doctrine. Greg would be expecting to be the head of the household as a Christian husband. Deonna would be expecting to submit to her husband. 

His father is Nigerian and had at least two wives so we know what kind of society that is. And even if he had zero contact with his father growing up, his religious single mother would have taken him to churches that again, teach the same doctrine he’s practicing now. 

I don’t think Greg wants a supplicant but I doubt he’d welcome a dominant woman who wanted to call the shots. He is smitten with Deonna but if she Jasmine’s him it would never last. That type of relationship is in conflict with his values. He likely wants a woman who can be strong (like his mother surely had to be), but who is secure enough in their faith to allow him to lead. 

I don't completely agree with this.  Evangelical churches run the gamut in their attitudes towards equality and power distribution in male/female relationships, especially today when many young people are focused on male-female/sexual issues from a progressive political perspective and would not accept a patriarchal interpretation.  I don't agree with a lot of the teachings in my good friend's evangelical church but I know beyond a doubt that she would not be on board with any teachings (or men that subscribed to them) that expected women to be subordinate to men and submit to them as the head of the household.....unless they wanted to, of course!

Greg's personality does not give off the vibe of wanting to be dominant in the relationship.  He has pretty much taken a back seat and given all the power to Deonna right in front of our eyes (eating bugs for her is one example, LOL).  I doubt he was putting on that much of an act just to win her over.  He doesn't seem like the type to do that.  He seems like the type that would want to please her and show her how much he would endure in order to do that!  And I don't think he seems like a manipulator or passive-aggressive type either.

I will agree with you that his father's background doesn't seem congruent with who Greg presents himself to be.  I wonder what the story is there.  I have known men from Nigeria and Greg seems about as different from that as I could ever imagine.  This has actually been bugging me all season!

[Yeah No]

14 hours ago, sometimesjennifer said:

Just because you're not sexually active, that doesn't mean you're not a sexual person (unless you're asexual, which she very well could be, and that's a whole other issue). Most virgins on the cusp of becoming active think about sex A LOT. What they want to try, what they imagine it will be like, what stuff turns them on. She acted like she wasn't even allowed to entertain sexual thoughts until the almighty SEXUAL INTERCOURSE took place. Penetration does not equal sex. There's a whole lot of other stuff built in and she was not interested in exploration, through words or actions.

And that's why I don't like Iris. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

You're welcome, and this is a great insight!  They say that sex is 90% in the mind, and if you are so afraid of it that you can't even allow yourself to think about it (or let anyone else help you think about it), well, the chances of it ever happening are pretty much zero.  And I don't even count the stuff that Iris claims is evidence of her being open to it.  She wants to believe she is but I don't see it, and obviously neither did Keith.  And no amount of her putting on an act to make us believe she is is going to change my mind.  

Reminds me of a couple of guys I met when I was young that had the religious tapes firmly ingrained in them to the point of flirting with me, pursuing me and going out on dates with me but being unable to perform sexually because they were brought up to believe that premarital sex was "wrong".  Both were Roman Catholic school educated.  The nuns did a number on them.  I'm a mainstream Protestant so I didn't grow up with that kind of complex.  But I have run into a few RC guys from that background that have serious sexual hang ups.  Made me feel like I was somehow too "dirty" for them or something.  Anyway, I don't blame Keith in the least.

[Yeah No]

13 hours ago, sasha206 said:

This is where I am.  I have to side-eye someone whose virginity is something she values but would actually consider giving up to a stranger from a reality show.  

Yes, and if that isn't proof that there's something off about her, I don't know what would be.  Anyone that has that little understanding of how relationships work in general to not know that marrying a stranger is most likely going to feel more frightening and make it even harder to imagine giving up something that's that precious to them is not dealing with reality.  Did she think Prince Charming was going to sweep her off her feet and make her feel OK with sex FINALLY with all her hang ups?  She has a warped, childish fairy tale view of things to see this show as any kind of viable option for her.  Therapy would have been a better solution.

[Yeah No]

14 hours ago, sasha206 said:

I don't know why but it also wouldn't surprise me if she eventually realizes she's a lesbian.

You know, you might be on to something.  Makes me think of a friend that joined a church and gave up sex/relationships "for God", and another friend that became a nun - both women I think were running away from facing their true sexual orientation as lesbians.  Of course there were a lot of other reasons I thought they were lesbians, such as not seeming to be all that interested in men and/or seeing men as only looking for "one thing", which they didn't want to give them.  Plus having a short history of dating, usually with men they either never consummated the relationship with, or did have at least oral sex and acted like it wasn't all that great.  Of course those relationships never lasted that long either.  Sounds like Iris....Who for her own religious reasons would never want to face being a lesbian (if she is one).....Tough one....

Edited September 15, 2019 by Yeah No

[watchingtvaddict]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

Greg's personality does not give off the vibe of wanting to be dominant in the relationship.  He has pretty much taken a back seat and given all the power to Deonna right in front of our eyes (eating bugs for her is one example, LOL).  I doubt he was putting on that much of an act just to win her over.  He doesn't seem like the type to do that.  He seems like the type that would want to please her and show her how much he would endure in order to do that!  And I don't think he seems like a manipulator or passive-aggressive type either.

The weird things they did for camera like eating bugs? I think that was producer driven. When Deonna was on Unfiltered she didn't seem like she was 100% on board with the idea of eating bugs either. IMO I think the adventurous activities Deonna suggested were producer driven and she wasn't the one to come up with the idea. 

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

I will agree with you that his father's background doesn't seem congruent with who Greg presents himself to be.  I wonder what the story is there.  I have known men from Nigeria and Greg seems about as different from that as I could ever imagine.  This has actually been bugging me all season!

Greg mentioned his mother married his father, moved to Nigeria and discovered his father had another family, so she moved back to the States. So, I'm thinking he is half Nigerian (and his mother is American) and his upbringing was more American than Nigerian/mixed culture. 

[Yeah No]

6 minutes ago, watchingtvaddict said:

The weird things they did for camera like eating bugs? I think that was producer driven. When Deonna was on Unfiltered she didn't seem like she was 100% on board with the idea of eating bugs either. IMO I think the adventurous activities Deonna suggested were producer driven and she wasn't the one to come up with the idea. 

Greg mentioned his mother married his father, moved to Nigeria and discovered his father had another family, so she moved back to the States. So, I'm thinking he is half Nigerian (and his mother is American) and his upbringing was more American than Nigerian/mixed culture. 

OK, even though producer driven nothing on earth would have made me eat bugs.  Greg looked completely disgusted and yet he still did it.  He also did other similar things just for Deonna that showed he was letting her take the reins.  

But thanks for that explanation of his mother's marriage, etc. - That would explain EVERYTHING.  I'm sure she was burned and brought Greg up to be VERY different from his father.  So my theory about him not looking to be the dominant one in the relationship still stands.

[Yeah No]

12 hours ago, Purplelady25 said:

I thought Iris had a very understated, tame reaction to Keith’s announcing he wanted a “Divorce”.  Gasp!!! I was really surprised with his decision. Why did he go on and on saying such nice things about Iris during the decision day? Why did he say “he was 100% attracted to her” if he was going to Divorce her? Wasn’t that sort of contradictory???   

My take on this is that some of this was producer driven.  If you noticed, even Amber said some nice things about Matt, such as how artistic and "philosophical" (hah), he is (vomit), and how "on paper" he was "the perfect guy for her".  Meanwhile she is crying her eyes out and the experts are gasping, then they cut to commercial.  No accident there.  It's all done to leave us in suspense.  I think production makes them say what they like the very best about the other person and also the stuff they didn't like.  Even the couples that stayed married said some negative things about each other - presumably so production can isolate those comments and create drama/suspense by leaving us hanging on a cliff wondering what their final decision is going to be.  I do also think that Keith in particular was trying to be diplomatic and decent in his responses, but that in the end it was production making him go to such lengths to focus on the positives.

[Rae Spellman]

13 minutes ago, watchingtvaddict said:

Greg mentioned his mother married his father, moved to Nigeria and discovered his father had another family, so she moved back to the States. So, I'm thinking he is half Nigerian (and his mother is American) and his upbringing was more American than Nigerian/mixed culture. 

Greg said his mother is from North Carolina and his father is Nigerian. It sounded like after his parents broke up, he was raised primarily by his mother in the States.

[watchingtvaddict]

11 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

OK, even though producer driven nothing on earth would have made me eat bugs.  Greg looked completely disgusted and yet he still did it.  He also did other similar things just for Deonna that showed he was letting her take the reins.  

But thanks for that explanation of his mother's marriage, etc. - That would explain EVERYTHING.  I'm sure she was burned and brought Greg up to be VERY different from his father.  So my theory about him not looking to be the dominant one in the relationship still stands.

I wouldn't eat bugs either. But, then again I wouldn't go on this show because I'm sure the contestants are pushed to do various things they don't want to do...

I've been thinking of all the awkward sex adjacent exercises they have to do on camera. 

I'm not a prude but I'd probably come out looking like Iris with grossed out overreactions to the idea of licking chocolate paint off my partner's neck and not wanting to answer questions about my favorite position. 

[Yeah No]

2 minutes ago, watchingtvaddict said:

I'm not a prude but I'd probably come out looking like Iris with grossed out overreactions to the idea of licking chocolate paint off my partner's neck and not wanting to answer questions about my favorite position. 

I would feel the same way about talking about my favorite position (not so much the chocolate), although my reactions would be more subdued, like Danielle's.  Danielle didn't want to do it either and yet she and Bobby were doing the horizontal mambo every night, LOL.  So I actually never held that against Iris.  It was a whole host of other things that contributed to my opinion of her dysfunctional sexual attitudes.

[ladyscorpio]

On 9/12/2019 at 8:53 AM, Lily247 said:

I also think, that despite all the fakery on this show, something is ver  clear: a lot of women dont understand men very well. 

You DONT give up the  cookies on day 2 of meeting a guy, regardless what a piece of paper says he is to you. 

If he stays out every night...... he is just not into you. 

He doesn't want to tell you to your face that he wants to break up. Instead, he will ghost or avoid you. 

Give him space. 

Sometimes, just STFU. 

My thoughts EXACTLY!!!!

[Lily247]

11 hours ago, Lindz said:

How much of it was sparing her feelings, portraying a nice guy, or just hiding that he's doing what he's NOT SUPPOSED TO & quitting cuz he dislikes stuff (they're supposed to WORK through issues!!)?? Maybe this needs to be THOROUGHLY explained to contestants. 😒😒

Work through issues? I would have been completely done w her after the lemonade incident. And i think a lot of people would feel the same. The more we saw of her, the more bizarre she got. She had this inability to soften up, and always talked in that loud, professional, "I need to hear myself talking" voice. I think him bailing out on her early would have humiliated her. Him being physically present with her during the duration of those 8 weeks was trying enough IMO. I thought his breakup with her was very kind and diplomatic. 

[OnTime]

11 hours ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

...And I heard that next time, there will be 5 couples instead of 4!

(I really hope that's not true.)

Oh no! Five is too many.  I wish they would go back to three.

[Lindz]

1 hour ago, Lily247 said:

Work through issues? I would have been completely done w her after the lemonade incident. And i think a lot of people would feel the same. The more we saw of her, the more bizarre she got. She had this inability to soften up, and always talked in that loud, professional, "I need to hear myself talking" voice. I think him bailing out on her early would have humiliated her. Him being physically present with her during the duration of those 8 weeks was trying enough IMO. I thought his breakup with her was very kind and diplomatic. 

Bahaha!! Did he NOT humiliate her by blindsiding her on Decision Day?? 😂 Did he NOT humiliate her by playing along, FOR WEEKS, having her think they're building a relationship? She's so supposed be grateful to him "being physically present" to make her look like an idiot? Nahhhhhhh. Is that what people think a healthy relationship is?? Just being there? One person faking it until they announce it's done? COME. ON!

[Kdawg82]

20 hours ago, Silver Bells said:

I wasn’t watching the show when Jamie married Doug.  I did read that she was very disappointed when she saw him.  Apparently, she still doesn’t care for him.  Wonder why she stood with him.  He doesn’t have a steady job, etc.  she’s very attractive and eventually would have found someone else in due time.  I don’t get it.

I don't even follow Jamie on any MAFS "spinoffs" or in any regard. I maybe saw the "about the episode" whatever it's called twice in my life.  I understand most people can't stand Jamie and she just grates- from her faux lashes to her outfits and her chatty attention seeking behavior. IDK bc like I said I don't follow her. There's just not much about her to like apparently. She was very vain and sort of cruel about Doug in their season (which I DID watch all of). I understand she was on "The Bachelor" or something prior to that. So...once that surfaced, I just dismissed her as a fame -seeking faking faker who fakes. It makes me think as a couple, this reality shtick is their bread and butter. There's more about her that leaves a bad taste in my mouth but at the risk of getting into anything too deep on these forums, I'll say I don't care for the woman. 

[Empress1]

14 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

In her defense, I have a different soap for hands and face too. But I don’t have separate sinks.

I was about to say! I have facial cleanser and hand soap on my bathroom sink right now. 

[Delta Blow]

On 9/13/2019 at 2:39 PM, JocelynCavanaugh said:

They're trying to copy the success of Pillow Talk on TLC, where previous fiances watch new episodes of 90-Day Fiance with a spouse or relative, but it's just not as fun.

Right?! I don’t know why they would bother. It’s boring af. It’s pointless. “This is a REAL MARRIAGE,” as they keep reminding us. With real EXPERTS! Now they can’t have us laughing at the experts decisions...  

Let’s face it—Ashley + Anthony and Danielle + Bobby are nice enough people, and I’m sure their friends and family enjoy them immensely, but if I met them at a BBQ, I’d probably push on to the next group after five or ten minutes. Compelling, engaging, entertaining—none of these words apply.

[qtpye]

I think in the show history none of the guys that we suspected to be “plants” have ever worked out marriage wise. However. other plants like Dave and Trey did say yes on D-day. They all just divorced their unwanted spouses after the cameras stopped rolling.

My guess is that all the “plants” are told to say yes on camera to keep up the stats and Keith refused to go along. That is the real reason the experts were blind sided.

Edited September 15, 2019 by qtpye

[Hangin Out]

Haha .. I’m in the shower and still thinking about this stupid show.  If Keith said he wants a divorce, why is Iris still blabbering about it all like a child that can’t take “no”?  Why are they still talking and going to lunch, dinner, wherever?  Does she think she can change his mind?  And what’s with him?  Does he feel sorry for her or what?

[humbleopinion]

I am worse than Iris...I have hand soap in a pump, face soap in a pump, and some weirdo olive oil soap from France in the soap dish that is gathering dust...kill me Jesus!

 Consider this theory...

Iris is playing the long game...Divorces have a  cooling off period so while Keith thought he was done after the 8 week co habitation at the Solis Apartments, Iris is playing the long game.

Iris knows that she and Keith are technically still  husband and wife.... the paperwork needs to go through...so in the meantime she is going to turn the ship around....

 Don't close the book on Iris Manley....whether Keith plays and continues to hang out  out of friendship...who knows..it's not over yet....

[luckylou]

The producers did a disservice to both Iris and Keith by matching them.

Think about it.  If Keith had seduced Iris, to use a 19th century term, and then opted for divorce, he would have been universally condemned.  If things had gone south after they had consummated the marriage, he would have been forced to hope that Iris would be the one to initiate the divorce, and this situation would continue beyond the so-called “Forever Decision” for months into the future...

Even if Keith thought he was in love with Iris, it would seem a better idea to ask for a divorce and then pursue a relationship after the show is over.  

I would be hopeful that this is what happened, except that Iris did seem to be increasingly frigid as the weeks continued. And the harping on this site about her misuse of KEITH AND I in the objective case, when really “our” would seem a better choice, suggests she never thought of them as a couple anyway.

Problem is, we have no real idea what actually happened.  Reality tv is not reality, but if it gets everyone talking, it has accomplished its goal.

Edited September 15, 2019 by luckylou

[Hangin Out]

18 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

I am worse than Iris...I have hand soap in a pump, face soap in a pump, and some weirdo olive oil soap from France in the soap dish that is gathering dust...kill me Jesus!

 Consider this theory...

Iris is playing the long game...Divorces have a  cooling off period so while Keith thought he was done after the 8 week co habitation at the Solis Apartments, Iris is playing the long game.

Iris knows that she and Keith are technically still  husband and wife.... the paperwork needs to go through...so in the meantime she is going to turn the ship around....

 Don't close the book on Iris Manley....whether Keith plays and continues to hang out  out of friendship...who knows..it's not over yet....

Me too.  I have two bars of soap my Grandson brought me from Paris in a beautiful dish.  They smell heavenly and I won’t let anyone use them.  I dust them off here and there.

[Jeanne222]

Regarding having five couples.

After this season with Matt and Amber and last season with Luke and Kate maybe they are going to give them the option to walk before the eight weeks are overdue.

I'm thinking they only stayed due to contracts!

[OnTime]

17 hours ago, Silver Bells said:

So, I just watched the final decision episode again and the Couples Couch.  On the preview, looks like Jamie and Elizabeth are fighting, and Keith and Iris might have another chance?  These extra little tidbit with Kevin Frazier are confusing.  What the heck is going on?  This show just cannot let go.

Of course, the show cannot let go! They will do anything to drag us back in.

PS Can we talk about Iris' reunion show hair??

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, humbleopinion said:

I am worse than Iris...I have hand soap in a pump, face soap in a pump, and some weirdo olive oil soap from France in the soap dish that is gathering dust...kill me Jesus!

 Consider this theory...

Iris is playing the long game...Divorces have a  cooling off period so while Keith thought he was done after the 8 week co habitation at the Solis Apartments, Iris is playing the long game.

Iris knows that she and Keith are technically still  husband and wife.... the paperwork needs to go through...so in the meantime she is going to turn the ship around....

 Don't close the book on Iris Manley....whether Keith plays and continues to hang out  out of friendship...who knows..it's not over yet....

I agree, I do think Iris is playing the long game in her rabbithead mind, but I think Keith knows it.  He isn't fooled by the new "sexy" Iris.  She's still Iris, new hair and dress notwithstanding.  So while I think it's a mistake for him to continue seeing her, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he bailed after the publicity dies down. 

My issue with him is that he still wants to be seen as a gentleman but what he doesn't seem to realize is that a true gentleman wouldn't mindfuck with someone.     

[Starlight925]

6 hours ago, Lily247 said:

Work through issues? I would have been completely done w her after the lemonade incident. And i think a lot of people would feel the same. The more we saw of her, the more bizarre she got. She had this inability to soften up, and always talked in that loud, professional, "I need to hear myself talking" voice. 

This is it, right here....Iris' need to hear herself, to talk as though she's speaking to a business intern, showing them around the new office:  This lemonade is for us only; that sink is for hands only; these clothes are for couches only; now here is your name badge and the HR papers.

She brought zero sensuality.  Not about sex, but about sensuality.  I cannot STAND Jamie Otis, for so many reasons, but I did watch her season, and no, she did not have sex with Doug until after Decision day.  But Jamie was cute, she was playful, she was affectionate.  I remember Doug saying it was so difficult to remain respectful, because she just wanted to cuddle and hug and kiss so much, that he so much wanted more, and she kept telling him that it would happen.  

Iris brought.....a librarian.  A teacher.  She's one of those people whose psychological age is like, 65.  Like a 65 year-old virgin.  Emily Letella (Gilda Radner).  She just didn't bring it, sensuality-wise.

Remember Kristina from last season (with Keith)?   I don't watch Couples Couch, but they are on it.  I remember Kristina, prior to marriage, talking about how she was a "queen", and I was like, this will never work.  But to her credit, she cozied up to Keith, and he cozied right back, and I so enjoyed watching their story unfold.  She brought the cute, the sexy, the fun.  Iris brings....a ruler to tap you with when you've used the wrong sponge.  What guy would be turned on by her?

[OnTime]

3 hours ago, Kdawg82 said:

  On ‎9‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 12:27 PM, Silver Bells said:

I wasn’t watching the show when Jamie married Doug.  I did read that she was very disappointed when she saw him.  Apparently, she still doesn’t care for him.  Wonder why she stood with him.  He doesn’t have a steady job, etc.  she’s very attractive and eventually would have found someone else in due time.  I don’t get it.

I'll defend Doug a bit.

He does have a steady job according to LinkedIn and has been there for two years  https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglas-hehner-67858149

She has said Doug treats her better than anyone else she had dated,  he has the great, caring, and fun family she has always wanted, and he completely accepts her background and baggage. He really is what she asked the experts for.

I think she is in it for long haul with Doug.

[humbleopinion]

Long timers will remember Doug proudly bought JamieO a used car because hers was a piece of junk and kept on breaking down...

Bless his heart, he didn't know that JamieO had BMWs and luxury cars on her mind instead of a second hand jalopy....but she was touched...

As I have said before, I snark on JamieO but she has a teevee career and ambition....kudos.

[Koalagirl]

20 hours ago, cinsays said:

I found that bachelor handshake to be very odd. Why would she do that?

I didn’t read anything into it other than the fact that Iris is so tall and Amber was so short they were just being playful.  

[nutella fitzgerald]

On 9/13/2019 at 1:43 PM, Lindz said:

They can leave at ANY TIME. Hello Heather!! Season 4!! Props to that girl!! That's how they film after it's over, SEPARATELY, NOT a fake marriage. If they're done & won't try to grow the marriage, QUIT!! PLEASE!!

I agree with you in the case of a normal, non-televised relationship (whether it be a marriage or a blind date). But Heather is the only MAFS participant I recall doing this out of the 58 total over all 9 seasons, so she represents less than 2%. There was also a lot of speculation that after her season, production tightened their leashes on the couples specifically to avoid another spouse unexpectedly  jumping ship.

[Booger666]

And if the rumors about Heather are true, she left because he was smoking pot.  She was a flight attendant and subject to random drug tests.  She was at risk for legal action and being terminated from her job if she tested positive due to his behavior.  This would give her an out of any contract that may have been in place.

[thatsall]

8 hours ago, Lily247 said:

Work through issues? I would have been completely done w her after the lemonade incident. And i think a lot of people would feel the same. The more we saw of her, the more bizarre she got. She had this inability to soften up, and always talked in that loud, professional, "I need to hear myself talking" voice. I think him bailing out on her early would have humiliated her. Him being physically present with her during the duration of those 8 weeks was trying enough IMO. I thought his breakup with her was very kind and diplomatic. 

Lily247, if I could give your comment five likes/hearts/whatevers, I would. Iris is a LOT, and that's before we even get to the most important relationship in her life (her and her virginity [which word I hope to never hear again]). The more she talked the less she said...annoying as all hell. I read somewhere that she participated in a "purity ball", so she may be one whose sexuality ends up being constrained by the religious/patriarchal messages she'd received her entire young life. Regardless: run, Keith, run...don't date Iris...don't look back...no doubt you have a buffet of dating and partner options as I type. The criticisms of Keith not being forthcoming enough are valid, but he had a lot to consider all at once. He seemed initially physically attracted to Iris, and willing to deal with "all" of her; but after ring gate, OCD tendencies, lemonade gate, and her obvious discomfort with even a discussion of anything surrounding sex -- along with the pressures of being filmed and the consideration that she is a well-intentioned and likely good person -- it may have been premature for him to say during those 8 weeks "I'm out." I would think he was weighing everything for that entire time. In the end a person can be objectively physically attractive but their behaviors make them decidedly unattractive and un-sexy to us, and I think this was the biggest factor in Keith's excellent decision.

After years of working in health care, I'd be remiss if I didn't say that I would ideally have one sink for hand washing and tooth brushing, and a separate sink to soak my washcloth in for makeup removal. And if you're sitting in any public place as you go about your day, wouldn't it be best to *not* sit on the bed in the same clothes? I realize these two things are extreme -- which is why I don't do them, it's a rabbit hole -- and our attempts to avoid all germs with triclosan and the like have massively backfired. I just needed to add this to perhaps be the one person in the social media universe who understands Iris' thinking on this, if not her insistence on it. The drawer liners are pretty ridiculous, since the inside of drawers are not likely to be harboring anything, and if they are, paper is unlikely to completely shield one's items from it; and if they're dirty clean them out before unloading your stuff.

Poor Iris. In many ways she's a hot mess who should look to her mama for a more balanced way to be.

Edited September 15, 2019 by thatsall