S01.E06: The Long Wait

[Chaos Theory]

There is only so much you can do in six episodes.  That is short even by today’s standards.   The show had a lot to cover in less then six hours so I can overlook supporting characters being written with broad strokes.  I actually really liked Christine and would have liked her relationship with Gabby to be developed more but with such a short season they went from shaking hands to kissing to sleeping together in the span of an episode and the very next they were signing sex contracts.   Even with the lightning fast speed Gabby and her sexual identity was my favorite story.

And yes one of the things I do remember about the early seasons of 90210 was the  weird chemistry between Brandon and Brenda.

 If also remember that the boys were allowed to sleep around but the minute Kelly has two boyfriends the slut shaming started.   I can see how it would psychology effect Jennie Garth.  

Edited September 12, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, Kdel1079 said:

On Kelly being a slut, I remember in the convent episode (in the original) when they were forced to reflect and be silent and Kelly thought ‘I slept with my best friend’s boyfriend. I slept with my boyfriend’s best friend’ 

make of that what you will. But I thought it seemed kinda slutty

I don't remember specific episodes from the original, but I do seem to recall that Kelly herself did acknowledge that she had had her share of sexual partners, and it bothered her.  I don't think she used the term "slut," but she wanted to lead her life differently.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, Lady Iris said:

I will say that Jason Priestley's hosting SNL episode remains an all time favorite of mine. Olympics ice skating routine, Life and Times of Johnny Hildo, Sprockets and of course a 90210 spoof with Melanie Hutsell as Tori Spelling.

I remember 😆😆😆😆😆at Dana Carvey playing “Dylan” in that spoof! I can’t recall if they did a spoof when Luke hosted the first time?

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, screamin said:

That and their cordial air together, when we last saw him marching away declaring he wasn't going to 'pine away' while she 'explored,' seems to imply they DID reconcile - offscreen.

But he said much the same thing in this episode; when she said she's still confused, or unsure, or whatever she said, he said that wasn't going to fly forever and she said she knew.  So they're still in limbo.  I'm not sure if he's back home, or if he just came on the trip to celebrate this big thing with her.

Hers was the only personal storyline I liked, because - while quite flawed - it was rooted in the messiness of reality, unlike the soap opera-style drama of everyone else's.  She loves her husband as her best friend and the guy she raised a family with.  She's finally confronting her sexual orientation, though, which brings into question how she feels about him as a partner; she loves him, she doesn't want to blow up their marriage, but she can no longer deny that maybe a necessary part of a romantic partnership was never there because she was meant to be with a woman instead.  She just doesn't know what to do with that.  And he's sympathetic to the fact this isn't just some mid-life wanderlust, but he's also not willing to be in limbo forever. 

It's the one thing I'd be interested in seeing continue to play out.  Ian banging both mother and daughter, Jennie with her stage five clinger fling and mixed feelings for Jason, Tori reconnecting with Brian during a low point in her marriage to a useless leech, He's the baby daddy/No he's the baby daddy - none of that is my jam.

[tennisgurl]

I really wish we had a few more episodes to really get into a lot of the subplots. Maybe its hard to get the cast together for that amount of time or they just didnt know how much mileage they could get out of the premise, but it seemed like they just kind of rushed through plot after plot without giving them very fulfilling endings. The stalker? Apparently that random guy with the dress who we saw for two seconds, who was caught off-screen. Almost every marriage or relationship? Over without much muss or fuss. The pilot? We never even saw it, and ts being re shot anyway. Of course, some of that might come back next season with more follow up, but I feel like with a few more episodes, we could have gotten more.

[juicyfruit]

So when I watched the very first episode, I had no clue they would all be playing themselves trying to reboot the show and spent the first 3/4 of it confused. Now I can say that I thoroughly enjoyed the twist since I knew just enough about the original series and the actors' real lives to appreciate most of the inside jokes.  i also appreciate that they all leaned into making fun of themselves. 

I do agree with everyone who commented that there were too many subplots that were rushed.... But in a way, isn't that in itself a throw back to the original show? I remember watching some of the plotlines unfold way back then and thinking to myself as if that all got resolved in that amount of time. *shrug*

I am looking forward to a second season!

[screamin]

Something not very relevant I just remembered - last time we saw that ridiculously huge white Cadillac bus thing Gab was driving, we were going to see Jamie Walters at his roadhouse. I just assumed Gabby had taken over driving Tori's car because Tori wanted to nap in the third row, and with her huge family Tori would need a vehicle like that. But in this last episode we see it's definitely Gab's car. What would an empty nester want with such a huge dinosaur? It's the details that annoy.

[mamadrama]

20 hours ago, Aileen said:

I don't remember Denise Richards on the show and I also didn't recognize her at all. Did something happen to the lower half of her face? Her jaw is so different.

I refused to believe it was her at first. Her face looked like someone who'd been in a bad accident and reconstructed by a blind plastic surgeon. It made me sad.

[tvfanatic13]

Totally forgot- WTF was Tori wearing at the Peach Pit fan event????

[Starlight925]

2 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I refused to believe it was her at first. Her face looked like someone who'd been in a bad accident and reconstructed by a blind plastic surgeon. It made me sad.

Denise Richards is on The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, which I shamefully watch, so I've gotten used to her stretched out, over-filled face.  I find it so sad to watch her, as she was so beautiful.  I don't get the waxy, puffer-filled look being seen as attractive by anyone.

[screamin]

5 hours ago, Bastet said:

But he said much the same thing in this episode; when she said she's still confused, or unsure, or whatever she said, he said that wasn't going to fly forever and she said she knew.  So they're still in limbo.  I'm not sure if he's back home, or if he just came on the trip to celebrate this big thing with her.

See, that's the problem, to me. What we see of them and Christine could mean that Gab and her husband have reconciled completely and are living together again, or that they are just friendly and talking again, and that she and Christine have broken up, or remain friends with benefits, in whatever undefined permutation.

Presumably ONE of these combinations has happened, but the show doesn't bother to tell us which,  even though (as you note) the show's taken a lot more care in the course of the series to draw her character clearly and interestingly than they did in this last episode, and even though each possibility would develop G's character differently. PICK one, already, show.

Chekov's gun on the mantel may build suspense, but it loses all effect if you hear a 'bang' offstage and the play ends without ever showing whether the noise was a gunshot or a car backfiring. Plot happenings shouldn't be like those optical illusions that switch between a duck and a bunny. Rorschach 90210 with Schrodinger's soap opera non-reveals is just tiresome. 

[desertflower]

7 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I remember 😆😆😆😆😆at Dana Carvey playing “Dylan” in that spoof! I can’t recall if they did a spoof when Luke hosted the first time?

The only thing I remember from Luke hosting SNL is Phil Hartman appearing in a bubble during the monologue in an Obi Wan costume saying “Use the cue cards, Luke!” Heehee. 

(But now I’m sad thinking about how they are both gone!)

[Bastet]

24 minutes ago, screamin said:

and that she and Christine have broken up, or remain friends with benefits, in whatever undefined permutation.

I don't think there was anything to break up, as they just had sex.  Christine said in the next episode that she's more a player than a stayer but she likes Gabby and thinks they're kindred spirits.  (It seems to me Christine likes her as a person - the only one in the cast she does, heh - and was perfectly fine with being her experimental hook-up as a one off, but would be okay with a friends with benefits arrangement for a while, but isn't looking for anything beyond a sexual relationship.)  Gabby asked if Christine will date her if she signs the consent form, but that turned to the "I don't even know what I'm not ready for, and until I do, why would I put it on a piece of paper?" talk.

At the end, she came out as "undeclared" to her castmates, but Brian got inspired to come out as Zach's dad, so they didn't get a chance to ask anything more about the woman who asked her to sign a consent form.

In this one (I rewatched her scenes, as my lack of specificity in recalling the dialogue was annoying me), Jennie and Tori ask her what's going on with her husband, she says they're still trying to figure things out, Jennie says she hopes they do as he's a great guy, she says he is and she's not going to throw away 30 years of marriage for new discoveries, they find out it was Christine she slept with, and she says she's just trying to let things happen and not control everything (which they have fun with, and also with wanting to know if Jason knows).

Fast forward to arriving in NY for the upfronts, and Chris is with her, gets introduced to Christine (which again amuses Tori and Jennie) and later cuts off her revelation about Christine by saying he figured she was the woman she slept with.  He says he's not even that jealous, but isn't sure why ("Because she's not a guy?" heh).  She apologizes, he tells her she has to stop apologizing, she says she's just confused and doesn't know, and he says, "I don't know how long 'I don't know' is going to be okay."  She says she knows that and tells him he's her best friend.

So that's where they are - basically, where they were back when she first told him about her latent sexual attraction to women being finally brought to the surface after being kissed by the bartender.  It plays to me as she doesn't want to leave him for Christine, date another woman, or anything like that, but she doesn't know how to settle back into their marriage given what she has now acknowledged about herself.  And he understands that, but needs clarity in order to make his own decisions (and she knows he deserves that).

It's my favorite of the romantic/sexual storylines (by default, but also with a smidgen of genuine interest), but it suffers from being just one of half a dozen in a short-run series, and too much is left up to audience interpretation.  I don't want to be spoon fed, but come on.

[TomGirl]

2 hours ago, tvfanatic13 said:

Totally forgot- WTF was Tori wearing at the Peach Pit fan event???

That was truly atrocious, wasn’t it??

[methodwriter85]

The really funny thing is that I was actually rooting for Denise and Ian the whole time, because she's actually age-appropriate!

I was glad we got to see Brenda and Brandon's scene together. That was pretty funny.

[tdp1117]

On 9/11/2019 at 7:38 PM, TenaciousWarrior said:

I laughed at the fantasy sequence Shannen had of her and Jason in bed, as “Brandon and Brenda”. After she got the feedback that they had sexual chemistry. 😂😂😂

Actually that goes back to the original show.  The directors constantly told Shannen she was looking at Jason like she wanted to banInsert other media g him not like he was her brother.  She admitted she was attracted to Jason back in the beginning.  This was all a nod to that.  

[tdp1117]

19 hours ago, ethankoo said:

The cliffhanger was kind of lame.  The show is picked up so the pilot must have been good, so why are they going to reshoot the whole thing, especially when Christine said Fox has no money?  Then she said they don't have enough money to bring all of them back.  How does that happen?  The whole thing at the end makes no sense.  The easy resolution would be to cut Shannen's salary since she got paid double. 

I was disappointed that we didn't see any of the actual pilot that they filmed.  I thought that last act with Brenda in bed was going to be it but when Brandon turned to her I knew it was fake.  

Did anyone notice that Shannen's major scenes are all with Brian?  

Shannen's saying Kelly was a slut was hilarious.  I still remember Brenda's line: "If it walks like a duck and looks like a duck..." 

I think they left that as a way to explain Shannen's absence if she decided not to do a season 2 if there was one.  She's said she feels like this was a one and done thing for her.  It makes sense as underutilized as she was, especially in the first three episodes.  Side note:  I got kicked out of a BH90210 group on Facebook for saying they were marginalizing Shannen so I hope this doesn't get me blacklisted here.  I do feel like Shannen was marginalized because we barely saw her, especially in the first 3 episodes.  I also don't get the whole eating thing.  I don't recall any eating disorder rumors with her back in the 90's that might make her want to be eating.  I do think they marginalized her because they knew she was only there to honor Luke and not because she really wanted or needed to be  And I think the cutting one was their easy way to explain her absence if it did happen.  Just my 2 cents.  

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, tdp1117 said:

think they left that as a way to explain Shannen's absence if she decided not to do a season 2 if there was one. 

That's what I was thinking also. And since she demanded double pay it would make sense to get rid of her.  But, what was weird was Christine said they had to reshoot the pilot, but would have the discussion on who to get rid of later.  Were they going to reshoot the pilot with everyone and then get rid of on of the actors?

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, tdp1117 said:

I think they left that as a way to explain Shannen's absence if she decided not to do a season 2 if there was one.  She's said she feels like this was a one and done thing for her.  It makes sense as underutilized as she was, especially in the first three episodes.  Side note:  I got kicked out of a BH90210 group on Facebook for saying they were marginalizing Shannen so I hope this doesn't get me blacklisted here.  I do feel like Shannen was marginalized because we barely saw her, especially in the first 3 episodes.  I also don't get the whole eating thing.  I don't recall any eating disorder rumors with her back in the 90's that might make her want to be eating.  I do think they marginalized her because they knew she was only there to honor Luke and not because she really wanted or needed to be  And I think the cutting one was their easy way to explain her absence if it did happen.  Just my 2 cents.  

I think the fact that Shannen didn’t come aboard until late in the process is probably the biggest factor in her lack of screentime and not any deliberate attempt to marginalize her.

Shannen, like the rest, was a producer and I believe she had major input into how she would be portrayed. As we’ve talked about before; she specifically stated she did not want her marriage or cancer history used. If she didn’t want her personal life on the show, she was going to limit what sorts of stories she could do.  

I personally think that Shannen herself chose to go the quirky, comic relief route instead of the soap opera plots the others got.  So, we saw her saving animals, meditating and otherwise being just a little different from the rest. I also think the random eating was meant to be part of that quirky persona she was presenting.

[tdp1117]

37 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I think the fact that Shannen didn’t come aboard until late in the process is probably the biggest factor in her lack of screentime and not any deliberate attempt to marginalize her.

Shannen, like the rest, was a producer and I believe she had major input into how she would be portrayed. As we’ve talked about before; she specifically stated she did not want her marriage or cancer history used. If she didn’t want her personal life on the show, she was going to limit what sorts of stories she could do.  

I personally think that Shannen herself chose to go the quirky, comic relief route instead of the soap opera plots the others got.  So, we saw her saving animals, meditating and otherwise being just a little different from the rest. I also think the random eating was meant to be part of that quirky persona she was presenting.

When Shannen came aboard, nothing had been done yet though.  They didn't have a pilot.  They hadn't filmed a scene.  In fact they fired their writers after she came on board.  It isn't like they filmed half of it and then she came on board.  In episode 2 I believe it was, we waited until after the final commercial break to even see her.  That's why I said she was marginalized.  We also got to see everyone else's real life but not hers.  I am a big fan of hers so I was very disappointed in how they chose to use her.  And yes she was a producer, but all of them were.  This was obviously Jennie and Tori's baby, and they chose to feature some more than others.  I just think Shannen deserved better.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

I also think the random eating was meant to be part of that quirky persona she was presenting.

This was discussed in another thread, but the eating is a call back I think, to when Brenda was constantly eating on the original show whenever she was in the background.

26 minutes ago, tdp1117 said:

We also got to see everyone else's real life but not hers. 

As @doodlebug stated above, Shannen didn't WANT her real life used in this. Or her cancer. I'm also a diehard fan of hers, and I can appreciate and understand her reasons. And they started filming before Luke died, and that's when Shannen decided to join. It's not as if she was producer from day one. Probably asked to be one when she made the decision to do this show at the last minute. And these episode weren't filmed in...real time, if you will. Half of the episodes were probably in the can by the time Shannen joined up.

I would have liked to have seen more scenes with her and Tori and even Jennie, but I took what I could get. And I loved her scenes with Brian.

[Sakura12]

It could've been Shannen's decision to not work as much. In interviews she said she's still recovering. She also said she didn't want her personal life on the show. That limited them to what they can do with her character. 

It also looks like she wanted no part in the fake drama, like all the cheating and hooking up. Even if they fired the writers they probably used some of their scripts that didn't have Shannen. Unlike the show, real TV shows are more organized and can't just write a whole new script in one night. From the first few scripts you can tell Shannen was added in later. 

Were they even picked up without a pilot? They could've filmed a rough pilot to show to Fox. That one probably didn't include Shannen. 

I also think the plot with Shannen getting double is probably because irl Shannen got paid the same as the rest for less work.

[seaELare]

16 hours ago, screamin said:

Something not very relevant I just remembered - last time we saw that ridiculously huge white Cadillac bus thing Gab was driving, we were going to see Jamie Walters at his roadhouse. I just assumed Gabby had taken over driving Tori's car because Tori wanted to nap in the third row, and with her huge family Tori would need a vehicle like that. But in this last episode we see it's definitely Gab's car. What would an empty nester want with such a huge dinosaur? It's the details that annoy.

Product Placement Alert! That was a 2020 Cadillac XT6. Immediately after that scene a commercial for that very same vehicle came on. What a coincidence.  Obvs Caddy is a sponsor of this show. 

[TeenMom69]

1 hour ago, seaELare said:

Product Placement Alert! That was a 2020 Cadillac XT6. Immediately after that scene a commercial for that very same vehicle came on. What a coincidence.  Obvs Caddy is a sponsor of this show. 

Well then Ian really did his job well didn't he?  😄

[screamin]

1 hour ago, seaELare said:

Product Placement Alert! That was a 2020 Cadillac XT6. Immediately after that scene a commercial for that very same vehicle came on. What a coincidence.  Obvs Caddy is a sponsor of this show. 

I figured. I still think Tori was the only one who would logically want one of those - but I suppose Cadillac might've felt she wouldn't have been the right image for the product, there being the doubt as to how she could possibly be paying for it.

Edited September 13, 2019 by screamin

[Ohmo]

As a fan of both Brenda and Shannen (not a die-hard fan, just regular level), i have to say I was fine with how she appeared (and the amount that she appeared) because the huge thing that came through was that she was HAPPY.  I sincerely felt that she was happy and having a good time  with what she was doing on the series.  I didn't feel cheated at all because at several points (like with Jamie Walters), I thought she really shined.  And really...she's alive, so just being able to see her at all was fantastic.

[doodlebug]

5 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

As a fan of both Brenda and Shannen (not a die-hard fan, just regular level), i have to say I was fine with how she appeared (and the amount that she appeared) because the huge thing that came through was that she was HAPPY.  I sincerely felt that she was happy and having a good time  with what she was doing on the series.  I didn't feel cheated at all because at several points (like with Jamie Walters), I thought she really shined.  And really...she's alive, so just being able to see her at all was fantastic.

For me, that's the bottom line, too.  We got to see Shannen and she appeared to be enjoying herself immensely.  There has been no murmuring that she was unable with her role or screentime.  Quite the contrary, she seems to be really glad she did it, even though it took the death of Luke Perry to make her consider it.

If she's happy,  I'm happy.

[Bastet]

8 hours ago, Katy M said:

But, what was weird was Christine said they had to reshoot the pilot, but would have the discussion on who to get rid of later.  Were they going to reshoot the pilot with everyone and then get rid of on of the actors?

Presumably.  FOX liked the concept enough to pick up the revival/reboot (they keep calling it a reboot, from from what we saw them reading and shooting, it's a revival), but wanted the pilot reshot because it had a number of issues.  They'd still want it to have all seven, though, because a pilot with the full cast will bring in better numbers than one where one of the surviving OGs is missing.

But the budget for the series that has been ordered is such that they can't afford to shoot it in L.A. or retain the entire cast.  So they'd either indeed cut an actor or cut a bunch of other costs - the cliffhanger leaves open numerous ways to go with this show (as opposed to the show within the show) if it carried on; if Shannen saw this as a limited-run series and didn't want to do any more, they'd just write her as dropping out (and write the show within the show without Brenda), but if everyone wanted to come back, they could do wacky hijinks storylines as Tori the producer tries to find ways to cut costs (actors - particularly Shannen - taking a pay cut would inevitably be a line of discussion, but also all sorts of meta "well, what if we did this?" funny ideas for shooting on the cheap).

[Kdel1079]

The funniest line had to be Jason’s ‘incoming’ when Shannen was walking into the last scene in her red dress, lol!!! 😆

And I think her red dress was the prettiest one ❤️

Edited September 13, 2019 by Kdel1079

[princelina]

On 9/12/2019 at 10:53 AM, GrahamV said:

I kind of agree, there were too many storylines I didn't care about and that the show only seemed half-heartedly invested in. The stalker/arsonist storyline was ultimately pointless. And with 7 leads and 6 episodes, I felt like they didn't have enough time to really make the characters' personal lives truly engaging, so what time they did spend on it felt kind of wasted. Why bother spending ANY time on Jason and Camille's marital problems when it's going to be sidelined for half the season and wrap up via perfunctory exposition anyway, without any real drama? 

On 9/12/2019 at 3:37 PM, tennisgurl said:

I really wish we had a few more episodes to really get into a lot of the subplots. Maybe its hard to get the cast together for that amount of time or they just didnt know how much mileage they could get out of the premise, but it seemed like they just kind of rushed through plot after plot without giving them very fulfilling endings. The stalker? Apparently that random guy with the dress who we saw for two seconds, who was caught off-screen. Almost every marriage or relationship? Over without much muss or fuss. The pilot? We never even saw it, and ts being re shot anyway. Of course, some of that might come back next season with more follow up, but I feel like with a few more episodes, we could have gotten more.

I was sitting in a hair salon this afternoon leafing through old Us magazines, and came upon an interview with Ian from a little while ago - he was saying that they had pitched a full season - it was to be 12 episodes like this, with the 13th being all the "reboot".  So maybe they went with the original stories and just hustled them up a little too fast!

[nlkm9]

As someone married well over 30 years, i would not be ok wirh my spouse saying “ i want to fool around and just experiment to see what i discover “. I think Gabrielle is big cheater . He seems ok with it tho. 

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

As someone married well over 30 years, i would not be ok wirh my spouse saying “ i want to fool around and just experiment to see what i discover

Of course you wouldn't.  Most people expect their spouses to be faithful. It's pretty much the minimum requirement for marriage.

[screamin]

8 hours ago, Bastet said:

Presumably.  FOX liked the concept enough to pick up the revival/reboot (they keep calling it a reboot, from from what we saw them reading and shooting, it's a revival), but wanted the pilot reshot because it had a number of issues.  

It's not at all unusual for a pilot to have actors recast and elements reshot before it goes to series. Someone was saying that the fact that it was proves that Christine is a poor executive and the pilot a fiasco, but IIRC 90210's pilot itself was reshot with the recast dad, and Buffy the Vampire Slayer had its original Willow recast. The fact that it was picked up instead of being cast aside as a total waste of money counts as a success thus far.

[GrahamV]

9 hours ago, princelina said:

I was sitting in a hair salon this afternoon leafing through old Us magazines, and came upon an interview with Ian from a little while ago - he was saying that they had pitched a full season - it was to be 12 episodes like this, with the 13th being all the "reboot".  So maybe they went with the original stories and just hustled them up a little too fast!

That makes sense, thanks for sharing. That description sounds like it would have been much better than what we got. And it also explains a lot of the seemingly random plot lines that don't go anywhere. They probably ended up cobbling together bits of the ideas from their original pitch, but had to condense them to less than half the time they were counting on.

More than anything I'm bummed we didnt get to see that full episode of the in-universe revival though. I bet that would have been something.

Edited September 14, 2019 by GrahamV

[Ohmo]

9 hours ago, screamin said:

Someone was saying that the fact that it was proves that Christine is a poor executive and the pilot a fiasco, but IIRC 90210's pilot itself was reshot with the recast dad, and Buffy the Vampire Slayer had its original Willow recast.

That was me, and I know that in RL, pilots are re-shot and casting changes are made.  However, in the context of the series, I think it reflects poorly on what we actually saw in terms of Christine being an executive.  We saw her routinely berate her cast (most notably Tori) and refer to them in a negative manner.  The script had to be rewritten, and at the end of it all, the entire pilot had to be re-shot.  Christine contributed very little that was positive to the process, and the only thing she managed to accomplish was have a romantic relationship with a subordinate.  So, while I understand that these events do happen in the real world of making TV, presumably those executives have done something beneficial along the way.  Christine was not a good manager of people and did not demonstrate control over her project, which in my opinion, makes her a poor executive.

[Janc]

Brian being so mad at his wife (forget her name) for hiring the detective and finding out Zach isn't his was so odd.... you're mad she that she told you she found out this guy was lying to you, and you'd rather him keep lying to you?   what?

[JAYJAY1979]

6 episodes was too short...this needed to be 13 episodes or so more since there was so much to mine.

Perhaps Tori has more of her dad than I thought but without his discipline..if that makes sense..since she has come up with 2 concepts that have worked with..and 1 that could have worked but her acting affected it (mystery girls).

And filming a show about Beverly Hills in Canada..big no. Lol

[screamin]

3 hours ago, Ohmo said:

That was me, and I know that in RL, pilots are re-shot and casting changes are made.  However, in the context of the series, I think it reflects poorly on what we actually saw in terms of Christine being an executive.  We saw her routinely berate her cast (most notably Tori) and refer to them in a negative manner.  The script had to be rewritten, and at the end of it all, the entire pilot had to be re-shot.  Christine contributed very little that was positive to the process, and the only thing she managed to accomplish was have a romantic relationship with a subordinate.  So, while I understand that these events do happen in the real world of making TV, presumably those executives have done something beneficial along the way.  Christine was not a good manager of people and did not demonstrate control over her project, which in my opinion, makes her a poor executive.

I agree that her management style is gratuitously and unnecessarily abrasive and nasty, with elements of the gleefully sadistic. It could stand a lot of improvement.

But I can't think of a moment in the series when that style caused a problem in the production,  or worsened one that already existed. She was riding herd on a pack of difficult people with the job to make them produce usable product. Tori really DID need a kick in the ass to get her to do HER job to fire the writer. I don't think having the kick be more kindly would have made a difference to the outcome. Same with, say, her announcement of the cancelled insurance. The cast's idea of catching the criminal themselves was unusably silly (and shown to be so by the end of the episode). Her being nicer about telling them so, again, would've made no difference to the outcome. 

As far as Christine's position with HER superiors is concerned, she got her subordinates to produce a product interesting enough to use when most other pilots disappear without a trace, a complete waste of company money. I think both she and they are going to count that a success, and an indication that what she's doing is working and she should do more of it.

Edited September 14, 2019 by screamin
Grammar am important.

[nlkm9]

2 hours ago, Janc said:

Brian being so mad at his wife (forget her name) for hiring the detective and finding out Zach isn't his was so odd.... you're mad she that she told you she found out this guy was lying to you, and you'd rather him keep lying to you?   what?

I sort of get it--hes saying she has to control everything---everything--but yeah, she did him a favor so understand wheres shes coming from--I think he humilated and embarrassed.

[Anosmia]

When Ian dreamt about going back to the Peach Peach to confront early '90s Ian about his fashion and hair, was that him playing the younger version of himself? Or was it a double? The face of young Ian looked really weird to me, almost like a creepy silicone mask. I couldn't tell if Ian was playing a double role and they airbrushed/CGIed his face to remove all traces of age or if the role was played by someone else who kinda looked like him. Or maybe it really was a mask!

This show was messy in a lot of ways, and the first episode perplexed me, but I'll be damned if I didn't end up loving it and wanting it to last longer! It was funny, unique, and kind of bananas all around. I do hope they get a longer second season and hope Shannen comes back. If they get another season, I would love to see more secondary players make appearances. We'll never see Valerie or Claire, but maybe other folks, like Jim Walsh and Nat, could appear. Hilary Swank? Michael Cudlitz? The guy who played Muntz? Kelly's cokehead boyfriend Colin? Janet? Noah? Jackie Taylor, Felice Martin, and Samantha Sanders? Brandon's exes Tracy and Susan? Andrea's husband Jesse?

Side note: Douglas Emerson (Scott Scanlon) appeared at a Peach Pit pop-up event recently to surprise Brian and it was so sweet! 

[Ohmo]

4 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

I sort of get it--hes saying she has to control everything---everything--but yeah, she did him a favor so understand wheres shes coming from--I think he humilated and embarrassed.

I think he's also upset because that's the dynamic that exists in their relationship.  She's the bigger star.  A movie wanted her song, so she added a role for Brian as a condition.  What she did in terms of investigating Zach came from a place of love, but Brian may also see it (and resent it) as another example of Shay "handling" things for him.  He may believe that she believes that he's incapable of handing issues on his own.  I don't believe that's what Shay actually thinks, but Brian may think that.

[WalrusGirl]

4 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

I sort of get it--hes saying she has to control everything---everything--but yeah, she did him a favor so understand wheres shes coming from--I think he humilated and embarrassed.

Yeah, even having done him a favor - and I’m not married here, but I’m thinking - it was really out of line to do so *without even talking to him first.* It’s one thing to take it upon herself to verify that he’s who he’s believed to be before continuing to allow a relative stranger access to her children and home if and after her husband has refused to consider doing so. But paternity and DNA tests are so standard, and have been for so long, in looking up parents. In this case, it sounds like the kid’s mom flat out identified Brian to him as his father, so I can see his not questioning it, and I get that Brian wouldn’t want to immediately push for a test when the kid wasn’t asking him for anything, but - you’d think Shay should have just *asked* Brian about verifying he was the father, and that Brian himself would want to do so at some point, if not asking the kid to do so immediately. But given that the kid wasn’t working in their house around their kids anymore, but rather on set, it seems really out of line for her to have jumped straight to doing a paternity test without having even broached it with Brian first. Had he refused and said he never wanted one, or if the son were still working in their home, I’d be more sympathetic to her taking matters into her own hands so quickly.

[Bastet]

The whole thing is ridiculous, because Brian would've had a DNA test done to confirm paternity, and, if he didn't for some strange reason, Shay would've told him he needed to do so.  So this whole secret DNA test thing is so ridiculous, I can't bother getting into the relationship dynamic underlying their argument.  Also, she is a horrible actor, so I always just want their scenes to be done already.

In other words, what @WalrusGirl posted while I was typing.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Bastet

[WalrusGirl]

55 minutes ago, Anosmia said:

When Ian dreamt about going back to the Peach Peach to confront early '90s Ian about his fashion and hair, was that him playing the younger version of himself? Or was it a double? The face of young Ian looked really weird to me, almost like a creepy silicone mask. I couldn't tell if Ian was playing a double role and they airbrushed/CGIed his face to remove all traces of age or if the role was played by someone else who kinda looked like him. Or maybe it really was a mask!

I was guessing de-aging CGI, only because the silicone/bloat effect reminded me of digitally de-aged Brent Spiner as Data in the Star Trek: Picard trailer. I think using AI to up-res original season one footage of Ian/Steve to HD and further using AI to, uh, deep fake reactions might have worked better, but then again that could also be what it was. But it was odd! (Not as odd as unrecognizable Denise Richards - which is *such* a shame - but odd.)

Edited September 14, 2019 by WalrusGirl

[MsJamieDornan]

50 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Also, she is a horrible actor, so I always just want their scenes to be done already.

Very bad.

[Marley]

I think it’s stupid they are playing themselves but then there is fake made up parts. Pick one of the other it’s annoying.

Brians wife is a mega shitty actor so I find they’d scenes hard to watch. I don’t get why he wouldn’t get a paternity test either.

[alegtostandon]

I am trying to remember an episode where "Brenda,  Kelly & Donna"  all dressed in red dresses & I can't come up with one.   I do remember the episode with "Brenda & Kelly" wearing the same dress to the spring dance,  but it was black with a huge white bow.  "Donna" always wore big, heavy ball gowns, a hoop skirt dress or a mermaid costume.  Only time I remember them all dressing similar is when they were bridesmaids for "Kelly's" mom. 

Kind of loved when BAG told Zach he'd still be a father figure to him.  

I would watch a season 2 but won't be heartbroken if it does not happen. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by alegtostandon

[txhorns79]

16 minutes ago, alegtostandon said:

I am trying to remember an episode where "Brenda,  Kelly & Donna"  all dressed in red dresses & I can't come up with one.   I do remember the episode with "Brenda & Kelly" wearing the same dress to the spring dance,  but it was black with a huge white bow.  "Donna" always wore big, heavy ball gowns, a hoop skirt dress or a mermaid costume.  Only time I remember them all dressing similar is when they were bridesmaids for "Kelly's" mom. 

I believe it is this picture being referenced.  It wasn't from a specific episode.  Rather, it was a cast publicity shot. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by txhorns79

[Bastet]

15 minutes ago, alegtostandon said:

I am trying to remember an episode where "Brenda,  Kelly & Donna"  all dressed in red dresses & I can't come up with one. 

It didn't happen to the characters in an episode, it happened to the actors at a photo shoot (and was just two of them, I believe).

Ha - that's twice in a row that I'm a few seconds too late in replying.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Bastet

[Kdel1079]

Yea I think the story of that photo was that they all wanted to wear red because Shannen got to in their first publicity photo, and Jennie and tori were jealous. So Shannen ended up changing into a black dress. That’s why she said in this episode, “I changed the last time!”

Edited September 15, 2019 by Kdel1079