S05.E02: Episode 2

[LoveLeigh]

Janelle turns to Carl for support; production for the movie commences; Sasha takes an interest in Helen.

[LoveLeigh]

Oh, how I love this show. I thought it was a bit draggy with some unnecessary drawn out fillers, but I just loved the end with Joanie. I would love to binge watch this season. Why can't Showtime just stick up all of the episodes like Netflix and Amazon do with their series? 

Oh by the way I thought that scene that the actors (playing Noah and Helen) were filming was some pretty awful acting. Was that deliberate? 

Edited September 1, 2019 by DakotaLavender

[cardigirl]

I’m loving this season. What a jewel of an episode. Janelle’s view was wonderful (although frustrating as hell) and acted so beautifully. 

Whitney figuring out how (maybe a little) much her mother had gone through (minus the whole who was driving when Scotty was run over). 

And I hope we aren’t going to have to rely on crickets for protein in my future, but I loved that touch in Joanie’s story. Was surprised to see Joanie pull out a book on the train to Montauk. That seemed unlikely in her future. 

Looking forward to the rest of the season and I might need a yoga hammock. Ha! 

[weaver]

Only watched part one, Janelle.   Does someone remember last year's story?  I thought Anton's father was a rather militant type who fought the system and wanted Anton to go to a state school to escape Princeton's patriarchy.   Was that a different guy from this lawyer who seems to know how to beat the system?  Is he not Anton's father?  

The acting was superb but I think some of the situations were very heavy handed, like asking Janelle to check the valet situation and Noah's daughter making the inappropriate comment to Janelle.  

I was also saying to myself all through the scene, why the hell isn't she looking for another and better job; the idea that she didn't seem to want to fight this ludicrous contract until ex mentioned it to her seemed implausible to me.  The guy who got the co-principalship was a caricature.  

[weaver]

Part two, Helen , was implausible to me.   What did Helen do that so impressed this big star, suggested that both characters be tougher?  I find the actor playing the star badly miscast.  He doesn’t project “big actor” at all.

Im anxious for the part three plot (joanie) to move forward, and quickly.  

[cardigirl]

4 hours ago, weaver said:

Only watched part one, Janelle.   Does someone remember last year's story?  I thought Anton's father was a rather militant type who fought the system and wanted Anton to go to a state school to escape Princeton's patriarchy.   Was that a different guy from this lawyer who seems to know how to beat the system?  Is he not Anton's father?  

The acting was superb but I think some of the situations were very heavy handed, like asking Janelle to check the valet situation and Noah's daughter making the inappropriate comment to Janelle.  

I was also saying to myself all through the scene, why the hell isn't she looking for another and better job; the idea that she didn't seem to want to fight this ludicrous contract until ex mentioned it to her seemed implausible to me.  The guy who got the co-principalship was a caricature.  

Unfortunately, I don’t think that Janelle’s situation was all that exaggerated at all. What people of color face every day is mind-boggling and I thought was well-represented in this episode. 

[Valentine]

I loved that they showed the funeral from Janelle's perspective and added on to what we saw last week. In last week's version, Janelle offered to talk to the valet after Helen asked Noah to talk to them. Also in Janelle's version everyone was wearing white., which isn't what we saw last week.

Funny that Vik's large picture at the funeral in Noah's version had him in his surgeon's coat, complete with stethoscope, and that wasn't what Janelle saw.

Edited September 1, 2019 by Valentine

[scrb]

Spoiler

mistake, ignore.

Janelle:

Is this the first time they did a POV for Janelle?

Anyways, she's a fine actress and all that and there is an interesting story to tell but it just feels like it's plopped in there out of nowhere.

I'm sure to get the actress to sign on, they must have assured her that the Janelle character will be getting her own story line.

They couldn't or wouldn't find new stories for Alison but hey, let's jam in a story for a new character in the last season!

Unless of course they're doing it to show how it affects Noah.  So Janelle cheats on Noah and we have a new Affair! 

Helen:

Helen is sleepy, gets nauseous, starts Googling whether she has cancer.  It's 3 months after the funeral and she's supposedly still in mourning.  

So she's not feeling well and is bitchy, kind of dismissive of people, dozes through her own son's play.  But of course, wannabe Noah, the guy who has young women half Helen's age throwing themselves at him is interested in Helen.  Or is it just him being "method" because she's Noah's Helen?

After flirting with Sasha all day -- man gave her a bloody nose after all -- Helen goes home and finally decides to watch another of Vik's goodbye videos.  How timely, he's giving her permission to get some new dick, you know, don't concentrate so much on taking care of others but be selfish for once.

Either Vik is clueless or they're trying to depict a different Helen than in previous seasons.  She moped around a bit after Noah left her but she seduced him, got it on with one of Noah's college friends and maybe one or two other guys before Vik.

Sure she had the kids in that big brownstone but how well did she take care of them?  She made sandwiches for them with sex hands.  I think she also made them spaghetti once by throwing the noodles in the pasta jar and heating it up in the microwave or something.

Truth is, she could have hired domestic help or order food delivered all the time or given the kids money to buy lunch, rather than make them rushed sandwiches with grimy hands.

You know, like how all rich people do these days with their kids, give them credit cards?

Speaking of rebooted characters, Whitney didn't have a single bitchy moment in the episode.  Maybe the closest was her telling Janelle that her father dating a black woman was the coolest thing he'd ever done.  🙄

Joanie:

Joanie is not feeling well but wants to keep it a secret from her husband so she has to tell the toilet to shut the fuck up about the composition of her vomit.

Hell, I don't even want one of those toilets that shoot warm water up your ass, no way I'm getting one hooked up to nosy Alexa -- bitch, flush the damn toilet!

Joanie isn't judging her boss Elaine, who's with child or a carbon bomb.  Um, doesn't Joanie have two children of her own?

Elaine says she can't get enough protein but offers Joanie one of her cookies.  Apparently in the future, all nutritional knowledge has been lost.

Joanie is some kind of civil engineer who designs temporary protection systems for coastal towns which are being ravaged by rising seas.  Sporting events are canceled and even the maglev train that Joanie takes to Montauk is delayed by flooding on the tracks.

In Montauk, there are pools of water eating into the town.  Place looks long-deserted.  She has to break into Cole's old house because the fingerprint and camera sensors won't open the door for her.

Makes you wonder why they'd even build a cushy, whisper-quiet maglev train out to this dilapidated, deteriorating coastal town.

In any event, Joanie is going to be reminded of Alison, if she wasn't thinking about her already.  So how fortuitous that her work took her back to Montauk.

[preeya]

deleted

Edited September 1, 2019 by preeya

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I'm horrible but I laughed out loud when Helen got beamed in the face with the basketball. And I like Helen! I hope that the reason she's falling asleep, almost fainting and throwing up is grief and there is not something seriously wrong with her health.

I also thought it was really funny when Whitney asked if the movie scene was how it really went down with Helen and Noah and Helen said "Pretty much. The bra was in a different drawer."

I'm calling Sasha Mr. Man after Helen asked his chauffeur if he actually called him "Mr. Man." It will be fun to see Noah melt down if they actually start dating.

It seems Trevor has some Daddy issues. His play was dedicated to Vic but he's kind of following in Noah's footsteps by writing. It was interesting to see the father/son juxtaposition between the movie and the play.

Was that toilet at Joanie's work? That makes it even worse.

In the future all of the coastal towns are slowly flooding, which was a nice detail.

[preeya]

6 hours ago, weaver said:

Part two, Helen , was implausible to me.   What did Helen do that so impressed this big star, suggested that both characters be tougher?  I find the actor playing the star badly miscast.  He doesn’t project “big actor” at all.

Do Noah and Helen wipe each other's asses when they take a shit?  They're divorced move out and move on. Why do they constantly need to interact with each other? That whole scene with Helen critiquing the movie was really bullshit and totally useless and only written in so Sasha could hit on her.  What's the attraction??

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

Elaine says she can't get enough protein but offers Joanie one of her cookies.  Apparently in the future, all nutritional knowledge has been lost.

They weren’t cookies, they were crickets. Crickets are very high in protein. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by cardigirl

[preeya]

44 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

They weren’t cookies, they were crickets. Insects are almost pure protein. 

44 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

They weren’t cookies, they were crickets. Insects are almost pure protein. 

But you have to eat a gazillion of them to get a substantial amount of protein into your body.

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, preeya said:

But you have to eat a gazillion of them to get a substantial amount of protein into your body.

100 grams (1/2 cup) has 20.5 grams of protein, the same ratio as pork. I think the point was, in the future there will be more people and fewer resources with which to feed them, and insects offer alternative nutrition that impacts the environment less than cows and pigs and chickens do. 

[Otherkate]

Janelle and her ex are good actors, but between all the time spent on them and the small, yet somehow interminable-feeling amount on Joanie, this episode really lost me. 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Otherkate

[LoveLeigh]

12 minutes ago, Otherkate said:

Janelle and her ex are good actors, but between all the time spent on them and the small, yet somehow interminable-feeling amount on Joanie, this episode really lost me. 

I totally agree. The Janelle segment felt like filler. Helen and the basketball segment was unnecessary. I have a hard time believing that actor would be "dating" Helen.

They are purposely teasing us with the Joanie segments. Let's get on with it. Give us Joanie and let's see what where it is all going. That is why I had said I like an entire season put up. I cannot stand this week to week wait. It seems so manipulative. 

[chocolatine]

4 hours ago, scrb said:

Joanie isn't judging her boss Elaine, who's with child or a carbon bomb.  Um, doesn't Joanie have two children of her own?

Joanie's kids are adopted. She and her husband talked about it in the last episode.

ETA: My favorite moment was when Helen said what we've all been thinking - that Noah's novel isn't very good, and those who think that it is must not be very smart.

Edited September 2, 2019 by chocolatine

[Milburn Stone]

4 hours ago, preeya said:

That whole scene with Helen critiquing the movie was really bullshit and totally useless and only written in so Sasha could hit on her.  What's the attraction??

My guess? Two things. She's attractive. And she was Noah's wife, and Sasha's narcissism makes him want to have what Noah had. (Which he probably justifies to himself as part of his "method acting process.")

The ultimate sociopathy is being incredibly good at hiding your sociopathy.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Milburn Stone

[nara]

5 hours ago, scrb said:

  Reveal spoiler

mistake, ignore.

Makes you wonder why they'd even build a cushy, whisper-quiet maglev train out to this dilapidated, deteriorating coastal town.

In any event, Joanie is going to be reminded of Alison, if she wasn't thinking about her already.  So how fortuitous that her work took her back to Montauk.

Given the fancy train, I was surprised that Joanie was reading a regular paper book.

10 hours ago, weaver said:

Part two, Helen , was implausible to me.   What did Helen do that so impressed this big star, suggested that both characters be tougher? 

I can see that her lack of awe at his stardom would be attractive to him. He’s used to women throwing themselves at him, so this would be a novelty.

[scrb]

Somehow I think Americans would be the last to give up on meat.

Or they’d have meat grown in the lab or something like Impossible Burger.

Joanie knows the mitigation projects they do is like patching the dyke here and there but US is a rich country and willing to spend money for short-term fixes.

[bobbyjoe]

I’m seeing a trend this season:

Last week Sasha insulted Noah’s coffee.  This week Helen insulted Sasha’s tea.  Next week, old man Noah insults Joanie’s cricket juice space-milkshake?

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Joanie's vomiting scene had me thinking of Dr. Toilet from Scrubs:

[Babalu]

6 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Was that toilet at Joanie's work? That makes it even worse.

I could be completely wrong, but I thought that scene was at Joanie’s house and she’d made herself throw up after taking all those pills in Episode 1.

2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Joanie's kids are adopted. She and her husband talked about it in the last episode.

She told her husband that one of her daughters knew she was adopted, so I’d thought the other was their biological child. But after her “carbon bomb” scene, I was wondering if both were adopted since it seems like she’s opposed to depleting our resources via procreation.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Idk, Helen getting bopped in the face with the basketball, reminded me of Marcia Brady getting hit by Greg & Peter with a football.  Seemed like an accident, but was it?  Sasha threw that thing pretty damn hard -- and right at her face.  Something about him I don't trust.  We saw in the last ep how gorgeous young women hit on him constantly & so he's going hot & heavy for 50-something Helen?  Something don't smell right . . .

Jeez, Joanie, don't they have therapists 30 years in the future?  You need one badly, hun.  Guess according to Treem, all the therapists have been wiped out by climate change too?

OK, some of this Jetsons-like futuristic stuff is getting on my nerves.  When I saw the outside of the train Joanie was on, I couldn't fuckin' stop laughing.  Er, was that supposed to be the LIRR?  Sorry, Treem, but they haven't modernized the LIRR since the '70's, so there's no way in hell the shitty LIRR trains are EVER gonna look like that!

Is anyone else as distracted as I am by Sasha's badly colored hair?  WTF?  A-list actors (which he is supposed to be) have believably dyed hair (well, sorta).  Man, he has zero chemistry with Helen, he looks nearly 2 feet taller than her & he looks kinda oldish in closeups.  So far, this seems like a bad casting choice.  But let's see . . .

The scene with Janelle & Carl was really interesting, but it should be another show.  Janelle is way too good for a clueless asshole like Noah.  Treem, spin these 2 off on another show!

Have to admit, I love the LA house porn, but Treem might be overdoing it a bit.  I'm almost expecting Mauricio to pop in, asking for offers on these houses & rolling out his contact info.

Edited September 3, 2019 by ScoobieDoobs

[Milburn Stone]

7 hours ago, scrb said:

Joanie knows the mitigation projects they do is like patching the dyke here and there but US is a rich country and willing to spend money for short-term fixes.

Thank you for putting it this succinctly. I was having trouble understanding Joanie's remark about "planned obsolescence" but now I do. 

I think what threw me off is that what we mean by the phrase is that a manufacturer or service provider deliberately builds in obsolescence knowing a better version is coming down the pike from them in two years or something and everyone will want to upgrade. Or that they're deliberately building in a short working life for what they offer (e.g., it will break down in two years because of cheap parts that they're using to achieve just this outcome), forcing the customer to buy a replacement. The "planning" for the obsolescence, in other words, is planning being done by the provider. But that doesn't seem to be the case here, unless this company is deceptively providing solutions they claim are long term fixes but aren't. Instead, the planning (such as it is) is really a lack of planning, and the responsibility for it belongs entirely to the customer, i.e. various levels of government from federal to municipal, representing us. Joanie's company is taking advantage of governments' inability to act in a way appropriate to the problem, or perhaps taking advantage of a climate change that was inevitable no matter what governments did; but that's different from Joanie's company planning the obsolescence of their solutions themselves. Nevertheless, I think your interpretation of her remark is correct. 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Milburn Stone

[scrb]

42 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

Thank you for putting it this succinctly. I was having trouble understanding Joanie's remark about "planned obsolescence" but now I do. 

I think what threw me off is that what we mean by the phrase is that a manufacturer or service provider deliberately builds in obsolescence knowing a better version is coming down the pike from them in two years or something and everyone will want to upgrade. Or that they're deliberately building in a short working life for what they offer (e.g., it will break down in two years because of cheap parts that they're using to achieve just this outcome), forcing the customer to buy a replacement. The "planning" for the obsolescence, in other words, is planning being done by the provider. But that doesn't seem to be the case here, unless this company is deceptively providing solutions they claim are long term fixes but aren't. Instead, the planning (such as it is) is really a lack of planning, and the responsibility for it belongs entirely to the customer, i.e. various levels of government from federal to municipal, representing us. Joanie's company is taking advantage of governments' inability to act in a way appropriate to the problem, or perhaps taking advantage of a climate change that was inevitable no matter what governments did; but that's different from Joanie's company planning the obsolescence of their solutions themselves. Nevertheless, I think your interpretation of her remark is correct. 

Actually what I got out of it is that Joanie is offering longer-term solutions like mangroves.  But the coastal towns opt for swing gates, which presumably are more aesthetically pleasing or maybe preserves coastal views.

The reason swinging gates don't last is that sea levels continue to rise.

So it's good for business but not necessarily good for those communities.

[Blakeston]

I liked the writing of Janelle's storyline a lot, and I love Sanaa Lathan. That said, I find it odd how her character is almost 100% defined by her race.

Pretty much everything that ever happens to her is specifically tied to her blackness. Her marriage to her ex was a constant struggle between their differing views on race - ie, she believes in working within society so that she'll be rewarded with a place at the table, and he wants to flip the table over.

Her relationship with her son is a mess because he identifies with his father's politics more than Janelle's, and because she pushed her racial views on him too hard (like the black nationalism-themed birthday party). Her relationship with Noah has been a series of reminders that he's too privileged to understand what she goes through. Her storylines about her job have been all about her race (and gender) as an obstacle.

And I have no objection to anything of the above plot elements. I think they've all been interesting. But can't she have a hobby or something? It's like the writers can't conceive that black people sometimes think about things other than being black.

Side note - the details of the co-principal arrangement were the opposite of what I expected. Wouldn't the superintendent and his flunkies have wanted her to be the face of the school, and made Joel the one who deals with internal relationships? Their main issue with her was that she (supposedly) didn't play well with others. So wouldn't they want to maintain the optics of having an African-American woman as principal, while Joel would be the one who handled relationships?

Edited September 2, 2019 by Blakeston

[preeya]

2 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

Thank you for putting it this succinctly. I was having trouble understanding Joanie's remark about "planned obsolescence" but now I do. 

I think what threw me off is that what we mean by the phrase is that a manufacturer or service provider deliberately builds in obsolescence knowing a better version is coming down the pike from them in two years or something and everyone will want to upgrade.

Planned obsolescence is a real thing in today's world, especially regarding hi-tech appliances (stoves, refrigerators, etc). The cost to repair one of these new-fangled items is exorbitant and forces the consumer to purchase a newer/current model and start the same cycle over again. Years ago these same products were built to last for years and years, in some cases decades and decades.

Edited September 2, 2019 by preeya

[TexasGal]

6 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Side note - the details of the co-principal arrangement were the opposite of what I expected. Wouldn't the superintendent and his flunkies have wanted her to be the face of the school, and made Joel the one who deals with internal relationships? Their main issue with her was that she (supposedly) didn't play well with others. So wouldn't they want to maintain the optics of having an African-American woman as principal, while Joel would be the one who handled relationships?

I agree with this - I would think they would continue to want it to appear the African-American woman was in charge while secretly the douchey white dude is running everything.  Pretty confusing.  And the meeting she saw at the beginning of the segment was the one where they ultimately told her about the co-principal thing?  For some reason I thought she was going to interview for something else and was confused.  

I also agree with the folks about that Sasha is into Helen because he’s trying to be Noah, plus bonus that she doesn’t seem at all impressed with her. I hope Helen doesn’t get her heart broken.

[Blakeston]

 

 

 

1

9 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

Thank you for putting it this succinctly. I was having trouble understanding Joanie's remark about "planned obsolescence" but now I do. 

I think what threw me off is that what we mean by the phrase is that a manufacturer or service provider deliberately builds in obsolescence knowing a better version is coming down the pike from them in two years or something and everyone will want to upgrade. Or that they're deliberately building in a short working life for what they offer (e.g., it will break down in two years because of cheap parts that they're using to achieve just this outcome), forcing the customer to buy a replacement. The "planning" for the obsolescence, in other words, is planning being done by the provider.

I agree with this. Using the phrase "planned obsolescence" strongly suggested that Joanie and her partner were sabotaging their clients, and I don't think the writers meant to imply that.

The term "patch job" is a better indicator of what they were doing. Offering someone an informed choice between a real solution and a patch job, and then giving them a patch job if they ask for it, is pretty different than deliberately designing something to fail.

[GeminiDancer]

9 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Side note - the details of the co-principal arrangement were the opposite of what I expected. Wouldn't the superintendent and his flunkies have wanted her to be the face of the school, and made Joel the one who deals with internal relationships? Their main issue with her was that she (supposedly) didn't play well with others. So wouldn't they want to maintain the optics of having an African-American woman as principal, while Joel would be the one who handled relationships?

They set that up so that Joel would take any credit for any good work that she does. Cause, that's what they would do.

[HC87]

This show is so wonderfully ridiculous.

No offense, but we're supposed to care about Janelle's story....why? As someone said upthread, it seems like a different show.

The Helen storyline is incredibly forced.

Future Joanie?

I've said this before but I can't think of another show that has evolved into a seemingly different show from S1 to S5  than this one.

[preeya]

1 hour ago, HC87 said:

This show is so wonderfully ridiculous.

No offense, but we're supposed to care about Janelle's story....why? As someone said upthread, it seems like a different show.

The Helen storyline is incredibly forced.

Future Joanie?

I've said this before but I can't think of another show that has evolved into a seemingly different show from S1 to S5  than this one.

↑↑ THIS 100 TIMES ↑↑

Another point that has me confused; didn't last week's episode (s5e1) end with Joanie knocking on the door of Allison's alleged murderer, saying, "I'm looking for Benjamin Cruz."  WTF happened to that?

Edited September 3, 2019 by preeya

[Razzberry]

Did we really need yet another perspective on Vik's funeral?  And who brings a date to a funeral anyway besides Noah Fucking Solloway? 

Maybe Joanie was puking up crickets.  Blech.

California is probably the most diverse place in the US if not the planet.  Why is it written like Alabama 1965?

I feel as irritable as Helen after being hit in the face.

[ScoobieDoobs]

9 hours ago, HC87 said:

This show is so wonderfully ridiculous.

No offense, but we're supposed to care about Janelle's story....why? As someone said upthread, it seems like a different show.

The Helen storyline is incredibly forced.

Future Joanie?

I've said this before but I can't think of another show that has evolved into a seemingly different show from S1 to S5  than this one.

Janelle, her son & her ex are interesting characters.  The prob is their connection to this show is tenuous at best.  Is she just “another of Noah’s women”, as Helen’s mom tartly said?  Won’t he eventually discard Janelle as he does everyone?  Seems like the hints are Noah gets interested in Helen again.  So there goes Janelle’s connection.  Janelle said in her POV that “girlfriend” was a “strong” way to describe her relationship to Noah.  And he was such an asshole to her in her POV, why would she wanna stay with him?  I give that relationship another 2 eps at most.

Sure, Whitney’s comments to Janelle were ridiculously cringe-worthy.  And so was Helen, asking Janelle to deal with the valet cuz he was black.  But was it believable?  Uh, yeah.  Whitney & Helen are both clueless & sheltered in their hoity-toidy bubble.  Jeez, I looked at Helen in her perfectly decorated joint, crying in her fancy-schmancy bed, overlooking the Pacific and I thought — kinda hard to sympathize with ya, hun.

Idk, between Helen going wah-wah-wah in her zillion dollar house & Joanie in her climate-ravaged Jetsons world, I’ve mostly lost interest.  I couldn’t follow or understand most of what Joanie & her boss were saying to each other — and this was after watching it several times.  But Joanie’s comment, referring to her boss’s future baby, made me wanna throw a shoe at my TV.  It was a gross thing to say to any pregnant woman, let alone your boss.  

OK, I get it — Joanie is cynical & a sad-sack.  And that comment about her boss’s future baby was supposed to relate to some predicted climate change thing, but it was a supremely offensive comment.  So far, I'm not liking where this show is going, but I'll stick with it,

Edited September 3, 2019 by ScoobieDoobs

[Blakeston]

3 hours ago, GeminiDancer said:

They set that up so that Joel would take any credit for any good work that she does. Cause, that's what they would do.

But why tell her that her problems are with dealing with people, before telling her that they want her to deal with everyone? It was very strange writing. You'd think people who had made it that far up the food chain would have some power of persuasion.

I'd think they would say, "After the walkout, we need to send a message that we have some new leadership, but you've been so good with the interpersonal relationships that we need you to keep working with everyone."

[izabella]

I understood it to be the other way around.  I thought they said Janelle was not good with people but they thought she was great at the other stuff, like budgets.  So the guy co-principal would deal with the public and media, and she would do the paperwork and problem solving.

[ScoobieDoobs]

While I thought the scene with Carl & Janelle was quite riveting, Carl didn't completely get Janelle's situation correct.  Janelle badly mishandled the student walkout at the end of last season.  She could have been fired for it.  So her getting the offer she got didn't come completely out of nowhere.  It may not (as Carl suggested) have been because they were looking to get rid of her.  She admitted her weaknesses of being too tough & not relating to students well.  All her degrees & years of experience won't help her with that.

But Carl was absolutely right to point out this offer sucked & was a no-win for her & she should walk away from it.  His suggestion for her to run for a superintendent position was excellent.  Here's the thing tho.  If she had trouble relating to the students, can she tone down her somewhat harsh & demanding demeanor & get herself elected -- or was her harsh demeanor only a front for the students?

Eh, I still don't think this will mean much cuz the Noah/Janelle relationship ain't gonna last long.  Noah will probably start cheating on her with a script-girl or extra from the movie set & become obsessed with jealously over Sasha's attention for Helen.

[Armchair Critic]

Anna Paquin (adult Joanie) to me looks more like Helen than Allison. 

[poeticlicensed]

Am I supposed to believe that mega superstar Sasha becomes instantly enamoured of Helen? I suppose if he a method guy, he might want to dig deep considering one of the characters is based on Helen, but after a 30 second interaction, it seems like he really digs Helen, which I find implausible. Kind of like how I felt when every woman who encountered Noah was ready to bed him in 60 seconds flat. And of course, Sasha's house and habits are of the "crazy actor" trope.

Is this the first time we have has the viewpoint of Janelle? 

I am going to miss this show when it's over. I really like the premise of seeing the same event through the eyes of different people. Its fascinating. Grown up Joanie and the fallout from climate change is certainly a bold move for the writers. 

Oh, and Trevor needs to get over himself. Your mom just lost her partner. Give her a break.

Edited September 3, 2019 by poeticlicensed

[LuvMyShows]

Four random observations:

• Girlfriend can afford to spend $1,000 for a dress?
• No way would Noah not have told Janelle who he was meeting with at the cafe where she went to join him.  Also, when Noah kept laughing in the car about her not knowing who the actor was, I think she thought he was laughing at her, but I thought he was just giddy over the deliciousness of Mr. Conceited Actor being confronted with someone not knowing who he was.
• Also, for as long as Janelle and Noah have been dating, and to call her his girlfriend, there is no way that she wouldn't at least have known the birth order of his kids' names.  I know the writers put that in for a reason, to show us something about the nature of their relationship, but it rang hollow for how they portray her caring about kids.
• I guess I'm one of the few who rarely if ever heard Ruth Wilson's accent come through, but it is so distracting to listen to literally one word per sentence from Anna's mouth come out in a weird accent slip that is a mismatch for the character.

On 9/1/2019 at 3:34 AM, DakotaLavender said:

Oh by the way I thought that scene that the actors (playing Noah and Helen) were filming was some pretty awful acting. Was that deliberate? 

I thought the same thing, and have concluded that it had to be deliberate, to show how even though we (the audience) could clearly tell the acting wasn't good, all the people on set had fallen into Kool-Aid mode about it, except darling clear-minded Helen.

On 9/1/2019 at 6:46 PM, scrb said:

In Montauk, there are pools of water eating into the town.  Place looks long-deserted.  She has to break into Cole's old house because the fingerprint and camera sensors won't open the door for her.

I can't remember where the Joanie character lives, but they clearly showed lots of different terrain on the trip to Montauk, so it must be pretty far away.  Therefore it was just poor writing for the boss to say that the trip was to "Montauk" and not say what state it was in.  I thought for a sec that the boss knew her history with Montauk, and that was why, but their conversation would have gone differently if that had been the case.

Also, it made no sense whatsoever that she would go on a business trip and expect to stay at what appears to be a dilapidated, neglected house...which BTW she apparently still owns and would be costing her a pretty penny in taxes and insurance, yet she clearly isn't even renting out.

On 9/1/2019 at 6:46 PM, scrb said:

Helen is sleepy, gets nauseous, starts Googling whether she has cancer.  It's 3 months after the funeral and she's supposedly still in mourning.  

I don't have a problem that she's still mourning after 3 months, especially for someone like her who probably has a very difficult time processing such 'emotionally deep' emotions, that she feels like she should be above somehow and able to work through quickly and efficiently.  What I do have a problem with is her knowing that it's been so bad during these 3 months that she has fallen asleep while driving on a highway and she is only just now starting to worry about the symptoms?  And why on earth hasn't she considered that grief might be causing her symptoms?  She's not that clueless or delusional.

On 9/1/2019 at 6:46 PM, scrb said:

Either Vik is clueless or they're trying to depict a different Helen than in previous seasons.  

Yep.  They also did that with Whitney in the Uber telling Helen that "You shielded us from so much; you never gave up on him."  Hell to the no.  Helen put Noah down at every opportunity in front of the kids, even in front of his face with the kids.  And she gave up on him big time (not saying I blame her for that, just that she did).

[AngelaHunter]

15 hours ago, HC87 said:

This show is so wonderfully ridiculous.

No offense, but we're supposed to care about Janelle's story....why? As someone said upthread, it seems like a different show.

The Helen storyline is incredibly forced.

Future Joanie?

I've said this before but I can't think of another show that has evolved into a seemingly different show from S1 to S5  than this one.

I wasn't going to comment on this episode because I didn't know where to start, so thanks for doing it for me in such a succinct way and helping me order my thoughts. 

Janelle (about whom I do not care just as I did not care about French woman and her husband) is miserable all the time because everyone, including Helen, is so racist.

Helen (I do not care about crane-like actor guy who is boring and silly with his over-the-top California cliched, touchy-feely schtick) is miserable all the time. I know Vik just died, but she was miserable before then. I am mildly intrigued by her seeming narcolepsy, but I'm thinking it just might be a delayed reaction.  "I  don't know why I'm here," she says. I wondered the same thing.

Joanie, 30 years in the future, seems to be miserable all the time. Do not care about her argumentative talking potty. This and personal fruit-picking drones is someone's vision of the future? And I thought when her collegue offered her a "cricket", that it was something like "Animal Crackers", you know  - not really animals, and not really crickets.  Oh, well.

So, the only person I liked was Whitney, who seems to have grown up enough to have empathy for her mother. If she's the person I liked best, something is wrong with this show or with me.

The show HAS turned into something else. In Montauk it was real and messy and human and indentifiable. Now it's "As the World Turns for the Rich and Famous."

TWO puking scenes in one episode. I hate puking scenes.

Speaking of Montauk, would that sleek, huge, futuristic train really have a stop in what appears to be a decayed ghost town?

Oh, and btw: In Vik's farewell vid to Helen, he said, "You always took care of everyone." I had to wonder what the hell he meant as I tried to recall a caring Helen. Driving drunk with the kids in the car? Driving drunk with Noah, hitting someone and letting him take the fall? Screwing Vik in the basement while her kids were upstairs? 

Edited September 3, 2019 by AngelaHunter

[meep.meep]

I sure never thought of Helen as taking care of everyone.

31 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

Also, it made no sense whatsoever that she would go on a business trip and expect to stay at what appears to be a dilapidated, neglected house...which BTW she apparently still owns and would be costing her a pretty penny in taxes and insurance, yet she clearly isn't even renting out.

Montauk looked to be completely destroyed.  There were no cars on the road, there were no lights in the houses.  They all looked dilapidated and neglected.  

[izabella]

51 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

Yep.  They also did that with Whitney in the Uber telling Helen that "You shielded us from so much; you never gave up on him."  Hell to the no.  Helen put Noah down at every opportunity in front of the kids, even in front of his face with the kids.  And she gave up on him big time (not saying I blame her for that, just that she did).

Seeing the scenes from individual viewpoints is so interesting because it lets us in to how the characters see themselves.  Right now, it seems Helen is seeing herself as some kind of saintly martyr with Whitney supposedly telling her how Helen shielded them and Vik supposedly saying how she took care of all of them.  Helen conveniently forgets how Noah shielded them by going to jail for Helen.

[LuvMyShows]

On 9/2/2019 at 1:46 AM, Babalu said:

She told her husband that one of her daughters knew she was adopted, so I’d thought the other was their biological child. But after her “carbon bomb” scene, I was wondering if both were adopted since it seems like she’s opposed to depleting our resources via procreation.

The writers have made a big mistake in thinking that we can follow along immediately, and remember, all the Joanie sh*t.  When she was introduced last ep, we didn't even know who she was, so our memory didn't yet have a way to remember, process, and sort all the little details of what she was saying, because we had no context for it all.  I feel like now, throwing all the work sh*t at us this ep, is more of the same.  They haven't done a good job getting us to where they wanted her plot to be all along.

On 9/2/2019 at 1:46 AM, Babalu said:

I could be completely wrong, but I thought that scene was at Joanie’s house and she’d made herself throw up after taking all those pills in Episode 1.

At first, I thought that the scene was at her house, but then it looked like she walked straight into the office for that meeting.  And IIRC, her hair was in the work style not the home style she had been wearing in the other scene.  Also, she looked way too panicked about her stool being analyzed out loud for it to have just been her husband.  OTOH, WTAF about having something like that in your work place?

On 9/2/2019 at 8:19 AM, Milburn Stone said:

Thank you for putting it this succinctly. I was having trouble understanding Joanie's remark about "planned obsolescence" but now I do. 

I think what threw me off is that what we mean by the phrase is that a manufacturer or service provider deliberately builds in obsolescence knowing a better version is coming down the pike from them in two years or something and everyone will want to upgrade. Or that they're deliberately building in a short working life for what they offer (e.g., it will break down in two years because of cheap parts that they're using to achieve just this outcome), forcing the customer to buy a replacement. 

I think the writers wanted to write something that sounded 'fancy' yet environmental, and were caught up in their pride about what they perceived to be a great sounding bit, without realizing the nuance of what that concept actually is understood to mean.

[cardigirl]

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

 Screwing Vik in the basement while her kids were upstairs? 

Several commenters have mentioned this, as a moral failing on Helen's part, with which I heartily disagree. I think that episode ended with Vik staying and helping her son with his injections. The kids were never the wiser about why Vik really was there. Whitney wasn't in the house, or she might have guessed, but it really was not such a horrible thing and was actually quite comical in some ways.  

Just my opinion, of course. 

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

Right now, it seems Helen is seeing herself as some kind of saintly martyr with Whitney supposedly telling her how Helen shielded them

It's been a long time, but I was trying to remember Helen shielding them from anything, including her being arrested for drunk driving, something which would traumatize any kid. I guess TPTB want us to see Helen as a saintly, long-suffering martyr too.

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

Seeing the scenes from individual viewpoints is so interesting because it lets us in to how the characters see themselves.  Right now, it seems Helen is seeing herself as some kind of saintly martyr with Whitney supposedly telling her how Helen shielded them and Vik supposedly saying how she took care of all of them.  Helen conveniently forgets how Noah shielded them by going to jail for Helen.

Vik knew about that.  She told him at the end of Season 3, and he still decided to stay with her. 

[Gemini Gipsy]

For those of you who have said it feels like a whole new show. I completely agree. I felt like I was watching sci-fi but I will say, this is the part that interests me most, I am bummed we only get 5 minutes per episode. But it seems to be moving fast, and definitely in the direction that some had speculated (her finding out the truth about her mother). 

So just so I have this right, it seems there are some serious issues with the coastlines in the future? If anyone is educated on the matter and terminology I happily accept a little learnin'.

Flooding was mentioned several times, and it appears that resources are depleted. Joanie seemed to throw shade at her boss for having a baby of her own instead of adopting the kids that are already available and sucking up oxygen. 

PS- I love all of the futuristic ideas, even as silly as they are, I find it interesting, the Naughty Potty had me LOLing.

One more thing on this episode-

We all know this is the last season, that being said, why would we now need Janelle's POV? It just seems too little too late and instead of "wrapping" things up, they're throwing more "new" material at us. Plus I can't seem to take the ex-husband seriously, I still see him as the campy detective from Grimm. 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Gemini Gipsy

[preeya]

6 minutes ago, Gemini Gipsy said:

We all know this is the last season, that being said, why would we now need Janelle's POV? It just seems too little too late and instead of "wrapping" things up, they're throwing more "new" material at us. Plus I can't seem to take the ex-husband seriously, I still see him as the campy detective from Grimm. 

 

Spinoff perhaps?

Edited September 3, 2019 by preeya