S02.E03: Hunting

[Athena5217]

Description

Logan informs his management team of his plan to make another attempt to acquire a rival media company; Greg worries his meeting with a Logan biographer puts his standing with the family at risk; Connor's presidential announcement irritates Logan.

[CouchTater]

Wow, do I love this show!  Just a few thoughts after 1 viewing:

I really thought Tom was going to rat out Greg tonight.  He won a little respect from me when he didn't.  Why was Greg even at that retreat???  Is he really considered a peer with the others who were there?

Kendall is like a deadly (and dead-inside) assassin at this point.  I felt no sympathy for Roman when Kendall revealed that Roman had spoken to a rep from the other company that Logan wants.

"Boar on the Floor" was vicious.  It felt like the game could have easily slipped into other darker, nastier games.  It had that vibe.

Surely a lot of those execs could find other jobs?  I don't know how long I could work for a monster like Logan.  Can you imagine being one of his kids?  Ok, now I'm starting to feel sympathy for Roman.......

[BlackberryJam]

Well, that was disturbing. I’m so glad they avoided having Gerri on the floor because that could have turned really really dark. How much do these people get paid? Seriously? I’d have stashed away piles of money and run by now.

Frank was an idiot for coming back.

I knew Kendall was testing Roman. Honestly Kendall is exactly what Logan wants him to be now, completely loyal and willing to do whatever is asked of him. Dead inside assassin is so right.

Doesn’t Greg have documents about the Parks thing? So if Tom ratted him out, Greg could hang Tom out to dry.

Roman is an idiot who just doesn’t understand business. He always tries to sound smart without actually putting in the work to understand the business. Gerri is right, do the management training. 

[northboundtrain]

Some quick thoughts...

* Matthew Macfadyen's always fantastic, but I think I actually felt my breath catch in that moment at the end where he reacted to Shiv's infidelity with that croaked out bit about how she could tell him "later."

* I've had this thought in previous episodes, too, but this ep really drove it home: the only Roy sib relationship I have any actual emotional investment in is Kendall/Roman. Yet again in this episode, Roman was the only one noticing and repeatedly giving voice to the fact that this isn't Kendall. Yeah, he's not investigating the "why" yet, but I would bet that that's coming.

* Love that Gerri's going to be grooming Roman. They've always had a nice bond, so I like the idea of the show playing around more with that. I wonder if she really thinks Roman is going to be the last man standing or if she just doesn't care anymore (her "Why??" to Frank when he said he was going to take the job was a great moment) and has just decided to indulge the affection she has for the only family member who seems to appreciate her.

* Speaking of Roman...I could be totally off on my reading here, but after Logan pitched a fit about a rat speaking to Pierce, I started thinking that Roman only reached out to Pierce in the first place because he was secretly trying to sabotage a deal everyone knows is bad news. That may be me giving Roman too much credit, though.

* Tom not selling out Greg was an unexpected but welcome development...and then that little pat he gave Greg at breakfast the next morning. Not that I expect Tom to keep protecting Greg -- I'm sure some kind of epic betrayal is on its way -- but to have him sell Greg out in the middle of that humiliating dinner would have been too much.

6 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

Ok, now I'm starting to feel sympathy for Roman.......

I felt for him when Logan called him a moron. KC did well with that scene.

[Maire]

This is one of few shows that holds my complete attention for the full hour. Don’t always like it but I’m not turning away.

[RealReality]

Well....that happened.....

I can't even fully process boar on the floor and yeah, really glad gerri didn't end up on the floor.  

Also, just make up the price for a gallon of milk!?!? You think billionaire Logan fucking Roy who threw out platters of lobsters knows the price of milk???

Shiv is a bitch.  I don't think anyone has sacrificed a "loved one" as cruelly as shiv has with Tom. 

That she would send him there to talk to Logan knowing that she didn't want to do it was not just cruel, it was stupid.  Clearly no one in the world is going to talk Logan out of the acquisition.  And if there was anyone to talk Logan out of this acquisition it sure as hell wasn't going to be tom.  So there was almost no reason to ask Tom to do it.

If she cannot stand up to Logan how does she ever think she is going to be more than his glorified puppet?

One thing that struck me was that Logan specifically said to tom that he wanted a grandson.  This makes me think that.....all things being equal, he values men over women.  Not sure what it means, but it strikes me as a bit of information for my back pocket.  

I wonder if the boar on the floor thing is, in some part, a sign of Logan's worsening illness.  His doctor said to look out for extreme paranoia, and that whole thing was weird as heck.  The mastery of the show is that you could see how sharp Logan was and so no one would really even question it.  

I'm surprised as well that Tom held his tongue and I was pleasantly surprised that his humiliation the night before didn't make him lash out at Greg the next morning.  

Do you guys think the writer specifically put the wrong information out (or hints leading to the wrong conclusion) to protect Greg?  If he is her only potential source, she may gently extort him into giving her stuff for the book.  

I'm surprised Logan didn't still go through their phones.  He is a prick and he should think that multiple people may be turning on him. 

I know they won't, but I wish they would drop Connor as president.  Yes, id love the hijinx, but in an effort to mirror the current situation, I think they would somehow have Connor win the presidency.

I watch this show as an escape. 

It didn't sound like roman was going to take gerris advice....even though it's great advice.  However, there is a part of me that feels that roman  doesn't want to put in any real work.  He likes to make decisions based off gut feeling and no real information or analysis.  

It'll be interesting if roman takes gerris advice, I just think it would be out of character for him.

FWIW - I buy almond milk....$3.99 a gallon.

Edited August 26, 2019 by RealReality

[Mean Machine]

Tom and Greg are my favorite comedy duo since Larry David and Leon.

Anything with dead pigs makes me think of Gillian Flynn's Sharp Objects.

[Dminches]

5 hours ago, RealReality said:

Do you guys think the writer specifically put the wrong information out (or hints leading to the wrong conclusion) to protect Greg?  If he is her only potential source, she may gently extort him into giving her stuff for the book.  

Why do you think they writer put out wrong information?  I think telling Logan that Moe was the source of the information was a way of putting it to bed since he just died.  

[Athena5217]

8 hours ago, CouchTater said:

Why was Greg even at that retreat???  Is he really considered a peer with the others who were there?

The real reason is probably so we could have the scenes with Tom and Greg. The in-show universe reason could be that Gray is family so he gets invited to things he normally wouldn’t.

i do not understand people like Geri and Frank continuing to work for Logan. I don’t care how much money they get paid, there are other places to work that must have better (at least saner) bosses.

I think Logan has a good idea of how far he can push people and that is why Geri and Frank were not on the floor acting like boars. That scene reminded me of Lord of the Flies, and I was waiting for something worse to happen.

why is Shiv’s first response to Tom’s question of what happened while he was away to hint that she had sex? What about her conversation with Connor or whatever the dogs did that weekend? It must be because she likes hurting him.

[terrymct]

9 hours ago, CouchTater said:

Surely a lot of those execs could find other jobs?  I don't know how long I could work for a monster like Logan.  

You'd have to be a bit of a sociopath yourself, willing to take abuse in order to gain money and proximity to power.

I was thinking about Logan and Shiv.  Last week, I was wondering how he was playing her.  This week, however, I'm starting to think that he may have a blind spot where she's concerned.  Daddy's girl, so smart and different from the boys.   Does he realize that she's as warped as the rest of them?  I don't think so.  Shiv is on a pedestal.  

Tom has been riding on the truth train here lately.  He knows for sure that Logan doesn't respect him and that the leadership of the company doesn't view him really as part of the family or someone significant to Logan.  Shiv has zero respect for him, both in terms of career and personally.     That look she gave when he was hugging her.  Does she realize she made the wrong move marrying him?  He's not there just to worship her, he intended to climb the family ladder using her as the vehicle.  

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, Dminches said:

Why do you think they writer put out wrong information?  I think telling Logan that Moe was the source of the information was a way of putting it to bed since he just died.  

It seems like mo was pretty ill before they left.  If he was going to be the made up scape goat from the executive I thought she would bring it up in Hungary but before his death was official.  

And her head is on the chopping block if she made it up because Logan is going to forensically try to re contruct mo's emails/calls.  If mo didn't talk to the writer and there is no evidence of it she could be the next boar on the floor.  

So, were I her and not in Logan's crosshairs I would just have just kept my mouth shut unless the writer had given me some information to lead me to believe it was mo.

I mean maybe Logan just let's it go since nothing of substance was shared and he thinks the source is dead.....or maybe not.  But for sure everyone knows he is willing to go the extra mile to humiliate people and so I wouldn't risk it with information I knew was false.

19 minutes ago, terrymct said:

You'd have to be a bit of a sociopath yourself, willing to take abuse in order to gain money and proximity to power.

I was thinking about Logan and Shiv.  Last week, I was wondering how he was playing her.  This week, however, I'm starting to think that he may have a blind spot where she's concerned.  Daddy's girl, so smart and different from the boys.   Does he realize that she's as warped as the rest of them?  I don't think so.  Shiv is on a pedestal.  

Tom has been riding on the truth train here lately.  He knows for sure that Logan doesn't respect him and that the leadership of the company doesn't view him really as part of the family or someone significant to Logan.  Shiv has zero respect for him, both in terms of career and personally.     That look she gave when he was hugging her.  Does she realize she made the wrong move marrying him?  He's not there just to worship her, he intended to climb the family ladder using her as the vehicle.  

The looks of glee and the joy from others (especially the guy who had was ready to pee in a bucket) makes it seem like many of the people working for Logan kinda get off on seeing someone else on the receiving end of his humiliation.  

And I didn't feel a single iota of pity for roman being called a moron when he was happily videoing the boar on the floor and egging it on.  Roman can suck it, he is a moron. 

I don't think shiv is on a pedestal, and if she is, it may be one that she doesn't want to be on.  Logan told tom to call him when he could announce that he was having a grandson not a grandchild.

That line struck me because it just made it seem like at the end of the day, Logan may hire women and give them positions of power....but not the ultimate position of power.  

Has Logan ever asked shiv to do something really shitty?  Like the way he asked Kendall to? I can't remember, but if she is on some feminine, daddy's little girl pedestal, he may think she isn't strong or ruthless enough to run his empire. 

1 hour ago, Athena5217 said:

why is Shiv’s first response to Tom’s question of what happened while he was away to hint that she had sex? What about her conversation with Connor or whatever the dogs did that weekend? It must be because she likes hurting him.

I think shiv brought up the sex thing to a) distract tom from his annoyance and anger at being sent on a mission he knew was trouble and b) to subtly remind him that she could leave him anytime. 

[Eyes High]

Me before 2x03: Hahaha, Tom's an asshole who deserves everything he gets.

Me after 2x03: I would die for Tom.

That a character only showing a glimmer of kindness and being motivated (momentarily) by something other than naked self-interest suddenly appears to such greater moral advantage relative to the others shows how low the bar has been lowered for decency on this show.

I'm beginning to wonder if Tom used to be like Greg--naive, unsophisticated, and at least somewhat principled--before proximity to the Roys corrupted him so thoroughly. 

I'm here for any and all Roman/Gerri Oedipal weirdness.

[BlackberryJam]

I like the Roman/Gerri dynamic as well.

I think Shiv told Tom about cheating, or was going to, because she actually felt bad about it and wanted to get it over with. Now that she's told him, she never has to think about it again.

Right on Roman getting no sympathy for filming the boar on the floor. I did notice that one of the execs hustled the waiter right out of the room when it all started getting weird.

I thought that the younger exec woman and the security guy might be in on it, naming Moe as the leak. Or the author did talk to Moe, knew Moe was dying and sacrificed him to protect all of her other sources. It's a smart move. She gets nothing if all of her sources get burned.

No matter how gorgeous the settings, never, ever travel with Logan Roy. It's all going to hell at some point and it's so not worth it.

I didn't see Kendall chanting when the other three men were on the floor. I should go back and rewatch, but did Gerri and the other woman (Cyd?) chant? I'm not sure I can rewatch it though.

I'm looking forward to Holly Hunter next week.

[CouchTater]

2 more things from me: 

When they were all in the stands and about to shoot the pigs in a barrel, basically, Tom said something like "Why don't we just throw a grenade at them instead?" sarcastically.  That cracked me up during a scene that truly horrified me.  I don't know the exact quote, so I couldn't put it in the Quotes page.

Also, at the end, when Brian Cox (Logan) bellowed/growled "I. Will. Win!"  That was some powerful acting right there.  Woah.  Does anyone remember his character from Deadwood, Jack Langrishe?  It doesn't even seem like the same actor.  Unfortunately, that's the only other work that I know of his.  I'll have to find some more things to watch.  Does anyone have any Brian Cox projects to suggest?

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, RealReality said:

One thing that struck me was that Logan specifically said to tom that he wanted a grandson.  This makes me think that.....all things being equal, he values men over women.  Not sure what it means, but it strikes me as a bit of information for my back pocket.  

Yes, that's pretty telling. 

40 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

I think Shiv told Tom about cheating, or was going to, because she actually felt bad about it and wanted to get it over with. Now that she's told him, she never has to think about it again.

Has Shiv ever truly felt bad about how she has treated Tom, ever? 

Quote

Right on Roman getting no sympathy for filming the boar on the floor.

Not only did Roman film it, he knew all along that he was the one who talked! So utterly beyond.

Quote

No matter how gorgeous the settings, never, ever travel with Logan Roy. It's all going to hell at some point and it's so not worth it.

The "Hungarian" castle they used is Oheka Castle in New York, for the curious. 

Quote

I didn't see Kendall chanting when the other three men were on the floor. I should go back and rewatch, but did Gerri and the other woman (Cyd?) chant? I'm not sure I can rewatch it though.

I wouldn't judge anyone just for showing enthusiasm, given that they were trapped in a scenario when they were all drunk and terrified and trying to avoid being picked on. Roman, on the other hand...

Cyd chanting would make sense, because she despises Tom and would relish his humiliation.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Eyes High

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I don't understand why the biographer couldn't have more than one source? We know that she contacted several people related to Logan. Moe could have been a source for her; that doesn't mean she wouldn't talk to Greg too. 

By the way, she was a blast from the past. The actress playing the biographer was Susan, Carol's wife who in turn was Ross' ex-wife on Friends.

Shiv's dynamic with Tom is interesting. Generally, when a man is very rich and has mistresses, his wife knows about it but pretends not to in order to stay in the marriage. This doesn't seem much different than that even though Shiv has dressed it up as honesty. She's not technically wrong but obviously Tom would prefer a different arrangement. But he's doing the same thing rich wives have forever. Putting up with something he doesn't want in order to get something else that he wants.

During the Boar on the Floor "game," when Roman and Kendall started wrestling, I laughed out loud at Greg who was still chewing away at his sausage.

The whole price of a gallon of milk made me think of this:

12 hours ago, northboundtrain said:

* Speaking of Roman...I could be totally off on my reading here, but after Logan pitched a fit about a rat speaking to Pierce, I started thinking that Roman only reached out to Pierce in the first place because he was secretly trying to sabotage a deal everyone knows is bad news. That may be me giving Roman too much credit, though.

I think he is just that dumb. 

[BlackberryJam]

I think Shiv thought she should feel bad and maybe felt bad about not feeling bad about cheating on Tom. I think she knows what normal behavior is supposed to be, just doesn’t quite understand how exactly to feel those emotions. Roman, on the other hand, doesn’t know what normal behavior should be. 

Connor is clueless and he is going to tank whatever is left of the Roy reputation with his presidential run. I don’t think they have him lined up to win at all. I think they have him set up to be a constant fire that needs put out. And how will Waystar’s news division handle Connor’s idiocy? Report it? Ignore it? Support it?

Yeah...I can understand these people being terrified and going along, but that’s what bullying looks like. That was girls throwing tampons at Carrie in the locker room. That was the guys at the bar in The Accused. Horrific and terrifying herd mentality and “I have to go along or they’ll do it to me.”

[tennisgurl]

God, the boar on the floor game was like one of those Scientology documentaries. I cant tell if Logan is losing it because of his deteriorating health (the doctor warned about paranoia) or if this is just how he rolls as an executive, but the guy is seriously fucked up. It reminds me of that story about how he put Kendall and Roman against each other in some kind of dog match, he just loves to humiliate and abuse people just because he knows he can. No wonder all of his kids are a total mess. I wonder how many of his executives are there for the money, or because they enjoy the chance to watch other people be humiliated, even if they might have to take a turn as well? 

This was a surprisingly sympathetic episode for Tom, who actually didn't throw Greg under the bus, even if it could have gotten him some brownie points from Logan, and even gave him a sympathetic pat on the ram during breakfast. And the way his voice cracked just a bit when he told Shiv that that could talk about her sleeping with another man "later" really made me feel for him. I do think that he maybe he really cared about Shiv at some point, but he eventually started looking at their relationship as more of a transaction eventually, because thats just how the Roys are. Or he probably wouldn't really care that she was sleeping with other people. Or maybe he just looks better next to Logan and his nasty self. 

Roman really is an idiot, not in the way that Conner is, but he has no business sense and thinks that he is way smarter than he actually is. On the other hand, he also seems to be the only person who sees that something is seriously off with Kendall, and does seem to be at least considering taking Gerris advice. I actually do find their mentor/mentee relationship interesting, Jerri is probably one of the most competent execs around, and is actually willing to stand up to Logan...to an extent anyway. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by tennisgurl

[RedDelicious]

If I remember correctly, Geri is godmother to either Roman or Shiv, does anyone recall?  I'm leaning towards Roman given their interactions this season, but I'm not 100% sure.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, BlackberryJam said:

I think Shiv thought she should feel bad and maybe felt bad about not feeling bad about cheating on Tom. I think she knows what normal behavior is supposed to be, just doesn’t quite understand how exactly to feel those emotions. Roman, on the other hand, doesn’t know what normal behavior should be. 

The only time in this show I've ever seen Shiv truly, deeply upset over anything was when Marcia called her a spoiled slut...which is honestly pretty tame as far as these people go.

17 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

If I remember correctly, Geri is godmother to either Roman or Shiv, does anyone recall?  I'm leaning towards Roman given their interactions this season, but I'm not 100% sure.

Shiv called Gerri her "fairy godmother" in S1.

[terrymct]

3 hours ago, CouchTater said:

When they were all in the stands and about to shoot the pigs in a barrel, basically, Tom said something like "Why don't we just throw a grenade at them instead?" sarcastically.  That cracked me up during a scene that truly horrified me.  I don't know the exact quote, so I couldn't put it in the Quotes page.

This and protecting Greg really Tom's image for me.  The Roy's spent big bucks on what was essentially a "canned hunt".  The most important thing is getting that photo at the end with the boars propped up and them all posing like they did something.    Tom is still a mess, essentially selling his dignity and soul for a piece of the Waystar-Royco pie but there is a tiny sliver of something left deep inside of him.

I still firmly believe that Greg will be the one standing at the end of the series.

[Eyes High]

54 minutes ago, terrymct said:

This and protecting Greg really Tom's image for me.  The Roy's spent big bucks on what was essentially a "canned hunt".  The most important thing is getting that photo at the end with the boars propped up and them all posing like they did something.    Tom is still a mess, essentially selling his dignity and soul for a piece of the Waystar-Royco pie but there is a tiny sliver of something left deep inside of him.

In a way, the fact that Tom does have a soul makes Tom's awful behaviour that much worse, because he does know enough to know that what he's doing is wrong, but he ignores his better angels in service of his own ambition.

He has firsthand knowledge of how horrible Logan is but still desperately seeks his approval and dreams of succeeding him as CEO.

He knows that Greg is a vulnerable and naive outsider in need of protection but bullies him relentlessly as a pressure valve for the bullying he himself gets from everyone else.

He's rightfully contemptuous of ATN and everything it stands for, but he's still giddy at getting to run the place because it means he's moving up.

He hates Shiv's adultery and her humiliating treatment of him but goes along with it because keeping Shiv happy is key to maintaining his position.

The ortolan scene from S1 really sums up Tom as a character. Eating ortolan, where the bird is usually drowned in armagnac before being consumed (bones and all), is supposed to be the height of luxury, but it's pretty disgusting (eating the bones?) and even cruel. Tom, however, acts as if it's the greatest thing ever because it is so exquisitely decadent and expensive, while Greg is politely revolted.

I think that everything Tom does in Succession is a repeat of that ortolan scene: doing or submitting to horrible and even cruel things in the name of a luxurious lifestyle and trying to convince himself that it's the greatest thing ever, while Greg, who's really the younger version of Tom and Tom's conscience, is quietly horrified. The nightmarish bachelor party coopted by Roman and Kendall, Shiv cheating on Tom and then bringing her flirty side piece to the wedding, the open marriage, running ATN, humiliating himself for the Roys' benefit...it's just one big ortolan. And Greg's reaction to all this awfulness--being appalled by Shiv cheating on Tom, being appalled by the horrible bachelor party, being appalled by ATN, etc.--is probably the same as how Tom feels deep down, but Tom will never ever admit it.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Eyes High

[BlackberryJam]

@Eyes High

You nailed it on Tom. Whereas Greg would likely get ten million and run off to a beach and live and be happy, Tom wants the status and the power, not just the money. He doesn't just want to be rich, he wants to be viewed as rich.

I doubt that Tom really loves Shiv, but she's the highest rung on the ladder at this point. He can't go further without her. Just an interesting scenario, but I wonder how Tom would react if Marcia (Logan's wife) made a pass at him. Is Marcia a higher rung? I'm certain Tom would give Logan a blowie if Logan wanted one. 

[northboundtrain]

13 hours ago, RealReality said:

Also, just make up the price for a gallon of milk!?!? You think billionaire Logan fucking Roy who threw out platters of lobsters knows the price of milk???

That bit reminded me of the line last season about Logan resenting his children because he had a harder life than they've had. It all goes back to his image.

7 hours ago, terrymct said:

I was thinking about Logan and Shiv.  Last week, I was wondering how he was playing her.  This week, however, I'm starting to think that he may have a blind spot where she's concerned.  Daddy's girl, so smart and different from the boys.   Does he realize that she's as warped as the rest of them?  I don't think so.  Shiv is on a pedestal.  

This is a good point. Also, because Shiv distanced herself from the company and went into politics, she's never really had the opportunity to disappoint him the way Kendall and Roman have.

4 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I don't understand why the biographer couldn't have more than one source? We know that she contacted several people related to Logan. Moe could have been a source for her; that doesn't mean she wouldn't talk to Greg too. 

From the way Logan reacted at the idea that there could even BE a source in the first place (that someone would dare go against him in the way), I wonder if maybe he just thinks it's impossible that there could be another source out there.

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I think he is just that dumb. 

Yeah...I think I'm just still so awed Kendall's double-cross last episode that I'm looking for ulterior motives where there aren't any.

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

On the other hand, he also seems to be the only person who sees that something is seriously off with Kendall, and does seem to be at least considering taking Gerris advice.

That's really one of the most interesting aspects of the Kendall story, that no one's really questioning what's going on with him, except of course for Roman, who is also the one least likely to investigate further.

6 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I think that everything Tom does in Succession is a repeat of that ortolan scene: doing or submitting to horrible and even cruel things in the name of a luxurious lifestyle and trying to convince himself that it's the greatest thing ever, while Greg, who's really the younger version of Tom and Tom's conscience, is quietly horrified. The nightmarish bachelor party coopted by Roman and Kendall, Shiv cheating on Tom and then bringing her flirty side piece to the wedding, the open marriage, running ATN, humiliating himself for the Roys' benefit...it's just one big ortolan. And Greg's reaction to all this awfulness--being appalled by Shiv cheating on Tom, being appalled by the horrible bachelor party, being appalled by ATN, etc.--is probably the same as how Tom feels deep down, but Tom will never ever admit it.

This is really well put.

[RealReality]

4 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

I think Shiv thought she should feel bad and maybe felt bad about not feeling bad about cheating on Tom. I think she knows what normal behavior is supposed to be, just doesn’t quite understand how exactly to feel those emotions. Roman, on the other hand, doesn’t know what normal behavior should be. 

IIRC, tom came home, clearly distressed over the failed and ridiculous mission shiv sent him out on. 

Normally tom will just kinda take whatever shiv is dishing out, but he seemed genuinely upset and ready to vent a little more about how he wants to be an "equal player"

Shiv "mm hmm'd" him but she has no intention of she and tom being equals in any way whatsoever.  I think shiv doesn't like it when her "meat puppet" shows a scintilla of independent thought or gets upset.  

So, to me, dropping hints that she slept with another man (instead of just fucking saying it shiv) wasn't a sign she felt any sort of emotion but rather a way to remind tom that she really doesn't have a deep emotional connection to him that would keep her from leaving AND to get him to stop complaining and insisting that he have some say in "their" decisions of what HE should do. 

tom seems to be showing more and more signs of resistance, like when he told shiv to fuck off at Romans place and I think this last episode too he showed another sign of kind of getting fed up, maybe after the meat puppet comment? Equal partners doesn't work for shiv.  Or really for any of the Roys.  

That little half smile on her face, not saying it but not NOT saying it....I think it's strategy with shiv. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by RealReality

[tennisgurl]

2 hours ago, terrymct said:

The Roy's spent big bucks on what was essentially a "canned hunt".  The most important thing is getting that photo at the end with the boars propped up and them all posing like they did something.   

Tom really called it when he snarked about how they might as well have thrown grenades at the pigs and then been done with it. Even Roman summed it up as "lets go shoot some scared mammals". Logan basically spent crazy sums of money for a chance to shoot animals that are just standing there (the dogs dont even chase anything) waiting to be shot, and then take pictures with their bodies and look badass, even though they did nothing whatsoever. Its kind of how Logan runs his life in a nutshell. Spending tons of time and effort for something rather cruel and petty just because it makes him look and feel powerful. 

[preeya]

17 hours ago, RealReality said:

FWIW - I buy almond milk....$3.99 a gallon.

Regular white milk $2.59 @ Kroger's

[QQQQ]

I loved the conversation between Tom, Gerri, and Karl. So funny! And then it all went boar-on-floor dark...

[Pop Tart]

13 hours ago, Athena5217 said:

i do not understand people like Geri and Frank continuing to work for Logan. I don’t care how much money they get paid, there are other places to work that must have better (at least saner) bosses

That was my first thought as well but then I thought about how much some senators and representatives are willing to allow from Trump because of what they’re getting in return. Geri and Frank and the others in Logan’s circle have unimaginable levels of power over many, many other people’s lives and they are probably millionaires themselves because of their proximity to the top of Waystar. So that’s the trade off they’re willing to make, taking Logan’s abuse in exchange for massive power and wealth for themselves.

That’s the bargain that every one in that room made.

I did feel a smidge bad for Tom last night but I’m not crediting him with true altruism towards Greg when he didn’t rat him out. I think he held onto the information to use against Greg at a later date. He knows that Greg has something on him (destroying those documents), and now he has this to leverage against that threat.

Kendall was very definitely not participating in the taunting of the men on the floor, but he did set up and trap Roman for Logan. From one moment to the next he’s being very surprising. He is truly the one I’m most watching for. I just cannot guess where he’s going to end up this season. 

Shiv really seems to be setting herself up for a fall as she’s outpacing Roman on the arrogance front.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Pop Tart

[cardigirl]

I think Tom is finally figuring out that his advice to Greg, "trust no one," is even truer for himself and his marriage.  

He keeps asking Shiv if they are partners, but he's realizing they are not.  A little late on the uptake there, methinks.

[car54]

This episode was so crazy I had to watch it twice.

Every person on this show is weak or bad or greedy or needy, and there really isn't anyone to root or but somehow I love every character.

Does anyone know the character's name--the tall dark haired woman who would step in every time Logan went crazy wanting something impossible done?   I am starting to really notice her but I missed getting who she is.

[Tikichick]

16 hours ago, RealReality said:

IIRC, tom came home, clearly distressed over the failed and ridiculous mission shiv sent him out on. 

Normally tom will just kinda take whatever shiv is dishing out, but he seemed genuinely upset and ready to vent a little more about how he wants to be an "equal player"

Shiv "mm hmm'd" him but she has no intention of she and tom being equals in any way whatsoever.  I think shiv doesn't like it when her "meat puppet" shows a scintilla of independent thought or gets upset.  

So, to me, dropping hints that she slept with another man (instead of just fucking saying it shiv) wasn't a sign she felt any sort of emotion but rather a way to remind tom that she really doesn't have a deep emotional connection to him that would keep her from leaving AND to get him to stop complaining and insisting that he have some say in "their" decisions of what HE should do. 

tom seems to be showing more and more signs of resistance, like when he told shiv to fuck off at Romans place and I think this last episode too he showed another sign of kind of getting fed up, maybe after the meat puppet comment? Equal partners doesn't work for shiv.  Or really for any of the Roys.  

That little half smile on her face, not saying it but not NOT saying it....I think it's strategy with shiv. 

Tom's relationship with and marriage to Shiv have been his stepping stones to climbing the Roy family empire, ideally to the top if he can clear the path.  His assumption had been that Shiv shared his ambitions.  Last episode he came to the horrifying realization that Shiv shares his ambitions in a wholly different way than he ever contemplated.  That realization led to his outburst last week.  This week I think we watched Tom begin to contemplate just how much of Logan's daughter Shiv truly may be.

We also saw Tom learn from Logan just exactly what he can expect his place in the family and the company to be -- and that the ultimate level he will ever achieve with Logan is siring his grandson.  That's something Shiv has absolutely no interest in at this point, until daddy absolutely commands it.

[TimWil]

55 minutes ago, car54 said:

This episode was so crazy I had to watch it twice.

Every person on this show is weak or bad or greedy or needy, and there really isn't anyone to root or but somehow I love every character.

Does anyone know the character's name--the tall dark haired woman who would step in every time Logan went crazy wanting something impossible done?   I am starting to really notice her but I missed getting who she is.

Her name’s Karolina and she’s played by Dagmara Dominczyk. The actress is originally from Poland and she’s married to actor Patrick Wilson.

[car54]

2 hours ago, TimWil said:

Her name’s Karolina and she’s played by Dagmara Dominczyk. The actress is originally from Poland and she’s married to actor Patrick Wilson.

Thank you!   I am really bad at catching characters names on shows--and then forever more I am calling them--that dark haired woman!

[scrb]

23 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Roman really is an idiot, not in the way that Conner is, but he has no business sense and thinks that he is way smarter than he actually is. On the other hand, he also seems to be the only person who sees that something is seriously off with Kendall, and does seem to be at least considering taking Gerris advice. I actually do find their mentor/mentee relationship interesting, Jerri is probably one of the most competent execs around, and is actually willing to stand up to Logan...to an extent anyway. 

He gets the best lines, so he is smart in a way.

Presumably they all went to good schools, are somewhat well-read.

But they've obviously never worked hard to learn the family business, other than Kendal.  And Shiv obviously worked as a political strategist/consultant for several years to get to the point that a presidential candidate would hire her -- which is why it's surprising that she just quit, but that may be how Logan destroys her, makes her give up something that she was good at and must have liked doing to a certain extent.

Roman though didn't work hard in the family business.  You don't take him seriously because of what he did in his office.  And in season one, they refer to him as something dauphin that dismisses him as an unserious person.

It would make sense but it's too late for Roman to do the management program.  I doubt he'd wait 3 years spending time in different units of Waystar just as Logan is about to croak and the siblings are all trying to get in his vacated chair.

[sadie]

That. Was. Horrifying.

I really enjoy the decadent locales and seeing private jets and how the 1% lives but no way in hell would that be worth crawling around on the ground having a mad man throw hot dogs at me. As Ramona from RHONY would say “Wow, just wow!”

[preeya]

2 hours ago, scrb said:

which is why it's surprising that she just quit, but that may be how Logan destroys her

I think she quit because she knew fake Bernie Sanders was going to fire her anyway.

[scrb]

34 minutes ago, preeya said:

I think she quit because she knew fake Bernie Sanders was going to fire her anyway.

But it seemed like she was burning bridges, basically not planning to ever do that job again.

In season one, the fact that she had her own career, separate from the family business, was one reason why she was an interesting character.

Before she latched onto Gil, she was working for a Senate candidate whom she was hoping could win the presidency.  But then she decides that candidate hit her ceiling, which is why she joined Gil.  Nate was telling her that he really believed Gil could go all the way.

She obviously doesn't need the money, like those guys that Conner hired.  

If Logan screws her over, she might be able to get back to politics, but the narrative might be that she couldn't make it in the family business so she's crawling back to politics.

Of course she doesn't have to work at all but she didn't want Logan to sell the company and just cash out a lot of money for each of them.

[smartymarty]

3 hours ago, preeya said:

I think she quit because she knew fake Bernie Sanders was going to fire her anyway.

No, fake Bernie had offered her Chief of Staff. Unless you mean that he was going to fire her after her "prole" remark. But I think that remark was part of her deciding she had disdain for this job compared to CEO of Waystar, so she didn't mind saying it and then quitting.

[preeya]

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

No, fake Bernie had offered her Chief of Staff. Unless you mean that he was going to fire her after her "prole" remark. But I think that remark was part of her deciding she had disdain for this job compared to CEO of Waystar, so she didn't mind saying it and then quitting.

When they were riding in the limo (s02E02) fake Bernie said:

"Actually, I just fired you, Shiv.  If you'd even noticed."

[teddysmom]

On 8/26/2019 at 12:03 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

The actress playing the biographer was Susan, Carol's wife who in turn was Ross' ex-wife on Friends.

Also Walt's girlfriend, married to the guy who owned Gray Matter, on Breaking Bad. 

[meowmommy]

On 8/27/2019 at 9:50 AM, scrb said:

Roman though didn't work hard in the family business.  You don't take him seriously because of what he did in his office.

That he has any kind of position above mailroom clerk, where he'd undoubtedly fail due to his total lack of work ethic, speaks to the astounding power of unbridled nepotism.

Are we ever going to get a back story on why he won't or can't have sex?

[sistermagpie]

On 8/26/2019 at 7:29 AM, Dminches said:

Why do you think they writer put out wrong information?  I think telling Logan that Moe was the source of the information was a way of putting it to bed since he just died.  

I assumed that was just the truth, that the writer didn't consider Greg as being either someone who really talked to her (since he walked out) or someone who was in the inner circle. So it was like he was thinking too highly of himself even when he was terrified of being punished.

[DrSparkles]

On 8/26/2019 at 9:54 PM, Pop Tart said:

That was my first thought as well but then I thought about how much some senators and representatives are willing to allow from Trump because of what they’re getting in return. Geri and Frank and the others in Logan’s circle have unimaginable levels of power over many, many other people’s lives and they are probably millionaires themselves because of their proximity to the top of Waystar. So that’s the trade off they’re willing to make, taking Logan’s abuse in exchange for massive power and wealth for themselves.

That’s the bargain that every one in that room made.

Yes. But I can tell you, there isn’t enough money or power in the world for me to abandon my morals & beliefs. 

[Ellaria]

A little late to the party here...

This was a difficult episode to watch. Seeing grown men and women being bullied and humiliated was rough even when most of them are not-great humans. This was the first time that I actually had sympathy for Tom for protecting Greg and for accepting Shiv's infidelity. I expect he will not continue to do so forever. Matthew Macfadyen was excellent. 

Kendall is so broken that it is hard to watch him. Roman is a disaster waiting to happen. Greg is delightfully awkward and savvy at the same time. He is perceptive and, at some point soon, will be dangerous.

Shiv's smug confidence that Daddy will keep his promise to make her CEO is bound to to take a hit. I don't see this ending up well.

I still love Gerri. She is the only adult in the room.

[Milburn Stone]

I wish I could remember who Mo was.

[smartymarty]

8 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I wish I could remember who Mo was.

I don't think we ever met him. He was the man who died, and at the funeral Connor did the most basic of eulogies because he didn't want the family to be seen as supporting the man they nick-named Mo-Lester.

[Wouldofshouldof]

On ‎8‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 8:32 AM, RealReality said:

I don't think shiv is on a pedestal, and if she is, it may be one that she doesn't want to be on.  Logan told tom to call him when he could announce that he was having a grandson not a grandchild

Let's not forget, Logan already has a grandson - Kendall's son. But because the boy is on the spectrum, Logan doesn't consider him a worthy heir.

[Blakeston]

When we saw the board meeting last season, I was surprised by how diverse the board was. But seeing the top employees in this episode showed us how extremely un-diverse Waystar's workforce is.

I'm not exactly shocked that the people who actually report to Logan on a regular basis are overwhelmingly white and male.

[SummerDreams]

I watched the first season really fast and I thought I would watch all seasons these days but I stopped in the middle of this episode. What was with killing animals just for the fun of it and just leaving them there? I would never accept to do this scene as an actress or whatever else for all the money in the world. This show has too much cursing for my liking but I didn't let it stop me from going on, but this scene with the animals just drew the line.

From the episodes I watched I am impressed with the acting of Roman and Kendall. Masterpieces both of them.

That's it with this show for me 😕

Edited October 6, 2023 by SummerDreams