northboundtrain

I would not bet on Shiv staying faithful. Right now, it's easy for her to try to hang on to Tom because their conversation from the beach is still fresh in her mind and everything else around them is so chaotic. But I'm sure she's telling herself that once things calm down, she'll firm things up with Tom and then, once he's placated, just go back to doing what she wants (but maybe more discreetly). I do think Shiv loves Tom and needs him; they've alluded to how Tom helped her through some rough part of her past, and I'm sure that his help for her back then has convinced her that she needs him at her side now and always. But she's selfish, like all of them are. Oh, absolutely -- I just meant of the Roy family members. But, yes, Kendall thinking that he can trust them is bonkers. I can never remember if interviews with actors count as spoilers, so... I wouldn't say that she trusts him 100%, but she trusts him more than she trusts any other member of the family, and the longer they go with Roman demonstrating his affection for and loyalty to her, the more that trust solidifies. I keep going back to the "blood sacrifice" discussion on the yacht and how determined Roman is to get the heat off of Gerri. Shiv was out there suggesting her own husband be the sacrifice, while Roman was busy targeted every single person at the table (with the exception of Kendall, IIRC) in an effort to train Logan's fire anywhere else but on Gerri. But something else holding them together is that Roman, unlike Kendall and Shiv, has readily admitted to both Logan and Gerri that he's okay not being CEO right now. If he were more ambitious, I don't think the Roman/Gerri alliance would be holding the way it has been. I do think Kendall has Frank. Frank came up in the Shiv/Tom phone call, too, as a reliable vote against Logan.

Some quick thoughts: * Great episode...so glad that the showrunners decided to spend so much of the episode with just the three four (I actually did have to correct that) siblings holed up at Rava's. Is that the first time we've seen just those four in a scene together since S1 E2? All of it was riveting. * My feeling that Kendall is going to be the architect of his own downfall was only reinforced by those scenes where he ignored both Greg and Lisa and in favor of focusing on the ultimately futile task of trying to sway his siblings. Yeah, he did end up back in Lisa's office, head bowed and ready to get to work at the end of the episode, but Greg is now off in the office of some lawyer who sees him as a "wedge" to bring down Waystar. And I doubt this is the last we'll see of Kendall ignoring good advice because he's distracted by family drama. * When I remembered how Kendall was genuinely touched that Roman brought him the Danish pastries, it made me think that it's really too bad for Kendall that he opted to go ahead and speak to all of the siblings at the same time instead of individually. The outcome couldn't have been any worse if he'd taken the time to target each one. Having them all in the room together created a distracting atmosphere and made it easier for Shiv, Roman, and Con to feed off of each other's mistrust of Kendall and lingering love for Logan. * Though Kendall's "the only one who matters" spiel to Shiv would have backfired on him, regardless, I think. All that did was make her more likely to believe Logan really will pick her in the end. * As I love the Roman/Gerri dynamic, I'm pretty pleased that we already got Gerri's "I'm an incredibly dangerous enemy" bit from the promo out of the way and that it was in the context of a preemptive warning and not a response to something Roman's already done. Not that I expect their "marriage" to last the full season, but I'm not ready to see it over yet. * I'm so happy Marcia's back. I got little chills when her lawyer started in on the "reasonable numbers" speech while Marcia strolled into Logan's room. * Tom's conspiratorial "We'll have to see if he buys that" to Greg surprised me. I guess Tom's figured that, for now, it's in his best interest to protect Greg even though he knows Greg's already passed off the papers. * So we're currently looking at three, possibly four, different factions, right? 1) Kendall, 2) Logan/Shiv, 3) Roman/Gerri, 4) Greg (maybe with Tom?). Kendall thinks he has Greg, but he doesn't, because Greg doesn't trust him and is financially beholden to Ewan. Logan thinks he has Roman, but he doesn't, because Roman did not sign up for a Gerri/Shiv switcheroo (especially if the fallout removes Gerri from Waystar and the ability to mentor/"mentor" Roman).

It's great to be back...what a wonderful premiere! * So, I was looking back on what I think was my last post on this board following the S2 finale, and it was about Brian Cox's interview where he indicated that Kendall turning on Logan was some kind of plan on Logan's part. Well, I was really put off by that idea, as it didn't seem like a good dramatic direction for the show (just more of Logan being a puppet-master, which we had already seen far too much of by that point). Of course, that was two years ago (!!) and it's been debunked, so, whew. Very happy about that. * It seems obvious to me that Kendall is having an episode and not totally in his right mind, and I think that "Who says I haven't killed anybody?" line was meant to underscore that fact. When he's brought down, it'll be his own doing. Though re: Kendall telling Frank and Rava that he did this for them, I've got a more charitable read on that than some commentators...I believe Kendall believes it and isn't just trying to manipulate them, even though they aren't, obviously, the only reason -- nor do I think Frank or Rava would believe that they're the only reason. Frank and Kendall have been loyal to each other since S1, and Kendall sees the move he is making here as something that will benefit Frank, too. And I'm sure I'm not the only one operating under the assumption that Kendall's still in love with Rava and would be with her if she'd let him. And he loves his kids. So, yeah, I do think they were on his mind when he made the most important call of his professional life and that some part of him did this "for them" just as much as I believe he was also doing it for himself and all that he'll get out of it. * There were so many little touches this episode underscoring the connection between father and Number 1 Boy -- "Action Stations," the fact that both of them handed off their phones to their assistants, and even trading Jack and the Beanstalk references. * I'm in the camp that believes Roman threw the job to Gerri on purpose. Roman's never seemed really interested in running things solo -- even back in S1, he was trying to team up with Kendall. He wants a partnership with someone more experienced (as long as it's not Frank), and since last season he's been on a mission to get his "Rockstar and Mole Woman" plan off the ground. Well, now he's done it...which makes Roman the only member of Team Logan who's actually getting exactly what he wants right now. Did anyone else catch Roman trying and failing to hide a smile as he watched Gerri plotting at the airport? And then the way the camera lingered on him staring at Gerri when Shiv took the call from Logan on the plane. And then the way he looked back at her as they were exiting the plane. He's gone, gone, gone. * So on that front, what I'm wondering is how long it's going to take others to pick up on it and what the fallout from that might be. Logan actually might already be aware (I'm thinking here of how he mocked Roman last season for wanting to screw his mother, and Roman's phone call in the premiere would only have confirmed those suspicions, if Logan has them) -- Shiv finding out could be disastrous for Roman and/or Gerri, too. * Speaking of Shiv, I do believe Shiv is going to see Kendall. I don't believe she's actually going to side with him, though, because I've seen no indication that Shiv really thinks Kendall will succeed or that she's got any kind of guilt from her role in witness-tampering or in going along with Logan's plan to sacrifice Kendall instead of Tom. Plus, when Kendall called Frank and pitched him, Frank stayed on the line; when Kendall called Shiv, Shiv hung up on him. Shiv's had a setback, but I doubt she thinks she's out for good. The easiest way for her to prove to her father that she's capable is going after Kendall herself. So I'm expecting her to cozy up to Kendall now in the name of getting something she can take back to Logan. * I already love Lisa Arthur, and that shot of her sitting in her office as Shiv descends the staircase is one of my favorite shots of the episode (along with Logan watching the plane taking off from the hotel window). * Was anyone else surprised that Kendall called Shiv and not Roman? I've been mulling that over. Kendall/Roman has been my favorite of the Roy dynamics since S1, and Roman was obviously distressed when Logan announced Kendall as the blood sacrifice -- and Kendall even noticed and sent Roman a reassuring look across the table. I really can't wait for their first interaction. * With every episode, I find it increasingly hard to believe that Greg was once my least favorite character. I couldn't stand him in the earlier episodes. But Nicholas Braun is magic. I can't decide on my favorite moment this episode -- it's a tie between his pleading with Kendall through the bathroom door and his obviously-rehearsed response to Katarina when she asked him if he knew what Kendall would do. * One of the things I love most about this show are when characters refer to their pre-S1 history. We got a bunch of that during Frank and Karl's conversation on the plane, reminding us how far back they go and teasing again at Sally Anne, and then there was that nice moment between Kendall and Rava about Mount Athos and their past conversations about Kendall making a clean break. * I read over this post and realized the only one I'm not getting a good read on right now is Tom. I don't read much into the fact that he didn't return Shiv's "I love you" because he blew her a kiss and seemed his usual self with her on the phone, so I just don't get an "everything's changed" sense from him. I'm guessing he's also secretly mulling over Greg's part in all this, too. Anyway, having him isolated in Sarajevo with Logan, Frank, and Karl is a change of pace for the character, so I'm curious to see what he gets up to next episode.

Well, Brian Cox is actually out in the press today addressing this very subject. I have a LOT of thoughts, but a question, first, for someone who's already seen this press...would his comments actually count as a spoiler for S3 and therefore out of bounds for this thread? I wanted to err on the side of caution.

Kendall's the only one of his children that Logan seems to have contempt for. Logan doesn't like him, respect him, or "love" him (as he probably tells himself he "loves" the others), and Kendall's finally seemed to really, really realize it. That was a great line from Tom. At the beginning of this season, there was an interview with Sarah Snook that said that Shiv had some serious stuff in her past that Tom was aware of, and that that past informs why she stays with Tom. I really thought we would get more of that backstory this season, but it seems like the writers just want to keep it subtext. In any case, I think Shiv does need him, in a sense, and that's why she was so emotionally affected by his threatening to leave her.

What makes Roman's reaction even more poignant for me is thinking about how much it must have meant to Kendall to see his brother so upset on his behalf. I think Shiv will side with Logan...not only did Logan listen to her about Tom (well, from her POV...I don't think Tom was ever in real danger because Logan clearly wanted it to be Kendall), but she still wants to be his successor. Roman's in a stickier spot. We know he cares about Kendall and has a history of wanting to work with Kendall to oust Logan. But, on the other hand, Logan just made him COO and he's still got emotional sway with Roman...I don't want to dismiss that out of hand, especially since that sway was strong enough to get Roman to abandon Kendall during the vote last season. And Logan will, of course, be keen to get/keep Roman on his side by any means necessary.

That. Was. Awesome. I haven't even watched the inside the episode bit yet. I'm still processing. Kendall did me so proud. I had a feeling it was coming when Logan gave his "you're not a killer" speech. And then there was also something to Kendall's reassurance to Roman (also that look he shot him) that made me think there was something else going on. Speaking of Kendall/Roman, I've said this before, but I adore that relationship...again and again they prove that they're the only siblings who actually, genuinely care about each other. That look on Roman's face when he realized it was Kendall...and then Roman not even caring that he'd been made COO because of what it meant for Kendall. Just great stuff. About midway through the episode, I was starting to doubt what I'd said in the other thread about Logan preparing Shiv in the last episode for it to be Kendall, but then Shiv threw in that "What about what we talked about?" when Logan was mulling over his decision, which I guess puts another spin on Shiv going after Tom in front of everyone, right? If, at that point, she knew/believed Logan had already made up his mind to go after Kendall, thus leaving her free to pile on Tom, knowing that it was all for show anyway? Speaking of the pile on, Shiv going after Tom (regardless of whether or not she actually thought he was in danger), looks that much worse when compared to the way Roman went into attack mode on Gerri's behalf. I'm sure I'll have more to say once I read everyone else's thoughts. What a fantastic finale, and how wonderful it is already knowing we're getting a S3.

Getting some quick thoughts in before tonight's finale: * I'm not prepared to say whether Kendall will be the blood sacrifice, but I did come out of this episode with two takeaways: 1) Logan's utter loathing of Kendall. There's the obvious stuff, like Logan throwing Kendall under the proverbial bus at the hearing (and JS played Kendall's surprise there, so I don't think any of it was an act) and seeming unimpressed by Kendall's stellar performance. But did anyone else catch Logan's reaction when the TV host mentioned Kendall trying to clean things up at Cruises? The camera focused on Logan shooting Kendall a look not of pride, but of contempt. He really can't stand anything that makes Kendall look good. 2) Logan wants Shiv to think he means to sacrifice Kendall. Whether that's what he's actually going to do, who knows. But it was Kendall whom Logan name-checked during that last conversation, so I think it's Kendall he wanted her to be thinking of. Maybe a ploy, maybe not. * I'm not sure I've ever been more tense watching this show, between Tom's testimony and the hostage-taking. Brilliant writing, directing, acting, and editing. * Count me in the camp that thinks Greg's acting and/or that he's working behind the scenes to protect himself. I noticed that when the camera focused on Tom during his Greg-related denials, Greg was positioned right behind him but never in focus, always fuzzy. Could just be a fun nod/reminder of their relationship at the very moment Tom was denying it, but it also had the feel of foreshadowing. * It can't be a coincidence that Roman suggested "marrying" Gerri last episode and then had that OTT reaction to Laird "marrying" Gerri in this one. I'm not sure exactly where Roman/Gerri is headed, but I think we're getting more of it in S3. Roman also had what was, for me, the funniest moment of the episode -- his reaction to Karl's announcement that he was having a panic attack: "Really? You seem kind of the same."

Putting him on the panel, yeah, I wasn't sure why that was a good idea (or bringing him along to the Pierce meeting, for that matter -- that could have easily gone so, so much worse than it did). But as to the larger point about why he's still around...Logan clearly doesn't see him as a genuine contender right now (or perhaps ever), and I think Roman's also figured out that it's not going to be him. So I'd put his continued presence at Waystar down to a combination of other factors, such as Logan's desire to play the children off of each other/watch them fight each other, and also the fact that Roman, unlike Connor and, until recently, Shiv, actually does have some interest in doing something with Waystar (even though he's not good at it), and so therefore has something that keeps him hanging around. Maybe Logan sees that and doesn't mind encouraging it, though, again, putting him in these high-pressure situations makes less and less sense as we go forward.

I only just got caught up on the last two episodes, but this is just a quick post to say that, to me, Kendall's defense of Roman felt/looked practiced and so, by now, instinctive. And I do, also, think it comes from a place of genuine care between the brothers -- I've said this before, but theirs is the only Roy sibling relationship that I feel some emotional investment in, and that's because of the little glimmers we've gotten of some kind of genuine care/bond beneath the rivalry. Even in this episode, when they talked about what they were going to wear to the panel, they bantered easily and Kendall actually lightened up a little for a change when Roman teased him about not wearing socks. Also on the subject of Roman, I'm really digging what the show's doing with him and Gerri, and I'm glad that Roman finally voiced the obvious, that he thinks that they'd make a good team.

I don't think the show's renewal chances are high, but my feeling is that if it comes back then Santiago will either be dead or "dead" only to reappear later on down the line. The biggest reason why Santiago might actually be dead is that it would be getting back to the original Spanish show's plot-line, which opened in the months after hotel owner/patriarch Don Carlos' (Santiago's) death and dealt with how his widow and children ran (or didn't run, in the case of Javier) the hotel. When I read that the ABC version would feature a living patriarch, I thought that was a curious deviation, but it could be that the plan all along was to use S1 to establish Santiago and then kill him off and open S2 with the Mendozas in a place similar to that of Gran Hotel's Alarcóns. Then there's the will...if Santiago's alive, there's not much more drama to be mined from the will changes -- he'll simply put Jason in as speedily as he put in Yoli and Carolina, and everyone who's pissed about it will just have to suck it up...the stakes for the audience aren't high enough. But if he's dead, then there'll be a power struggle between characters of wildly differing abilities who will have clashing interests and reasons to be suspicious of one another.

I absolutely think he was driven not by real concern for Kendall but concern about his lack of control over the situation. I hadn't thought much about this, actually, but while the show's done a good job of showing that Kendall/Shiv/Roman do love their father and even have at least some small measure of care/concern for each other...I've never seen real evidence from the show that Logan looks at any of them as anything other than property/tools. Even on the rare occasions when he's shown "concern" for their well-being (as in with Kendall at the end of the S1 finale), it's really been about consolidating his power.

Another great episode. Kendall is so broken -- the way the camera held on his face when revealing that the shot was from an employee who killed himself. Just brutal. And the way he told Shiv, "It's not going to be me." Kind of hammers home the point that Kendall's not doing any of this for power but because he feels he has no other choice. And we haven't even seen his rock bottom yet. Did anyone else find it interesting that Gerri was all too happy to tell Shiv that Kendall's got a shoplifting problem? I wonder if that was about helping Kendall or helping Shiv? It was obviously done with some sort of ulterior motive. Other stuff...the Connor/Willa subplot was a good way of keeping Connor involved in Waystar matters without actually having him at the company. I liked Roman at the management program and would like (or would have liked?) to see more of it. And he's got a buddy! Of course, that's probably going nowhere good.... Speaking of Roman... I loved the Roman part of this sequence (that he'd have trouble with Tabitha but be able to get off with Gerri telling him what a horrible person he is: that absolutely tracks), but I didn't really buy that Gerri would stay on the phone. I guess I hadn't been looking at her affection for him in...quite that way. I laughed hysterically at Greg's skepticism about the "safe room," especially his suggestion that since Tom's the primary target he should get his own room. That whole subplot was just brilliant. I can't believe that I didn't remember until your post that Greg knows about Shiv cheating on Tom. That adds a whole other level to the water bottle fight. I did wonder, though, why Tom didn't respond to Greg's Cruises threat with a reminder that he knows Greg spoke to the biographer. I don't expect Tom to use the information right now (though of course with the biographer continuing to snoop, it's only a matter of time before it comes out), but why not remind Greg that Greg's not the only one in this relationship with readily-employable dirt?

That bit reminded me of the line last season about Logan resenting his children because he had a harder life than they've had. It all goes back to his image. This is a good point. Also, because Shiv distanced herself from the company and went into politics, she's never really had the opportunity to disappoint him the way Kendall and Roman have. From the way Logan reacted at the idea that there could even BE a source in the first place (that someone would dare go against him in the way), I wonder if maybe he just thinks it's impossible that there could be another source out there. Yeah...I think I'm just still so awed Kendall's double-cross last episode that I'm looking for ulterior motives where there aren't any. That's really one of the most interesting aspects of the Kendall story, that no one's really questioning what's going on with him, except of course for Roman, who is also the one least likely to investigate further. This is really well put.

Some quick thoughts... * Matthew Macfadyen's always fantastic, but I think I actually felt my breath catch in that moment at the end where he reacted to Shiv's infidelity with that croaked out bit about how she could tell him "later." * I've had this thought in previous episodes, too, but this ep really drove it home: the only Roy sib relationship I have any actual emotional investment in is Kendall/Roman. Yet again in this episode, Roman was the only one noticing and repeatedly giving voice to the fact that this isn't Kendall. Yeah, he's not investigating the "why" yet, but I would bet that that's coming. * Love that Gerri's going to be grooming Roman. They've always had a nice bond, so I like the idea of the show playing around more with that. I wonder if she really thinks Roman is going to be the last man standing or if she just doesn't care anymore (her "Why??" to Frank when he said he was going to take the job was a great moment) and has just decided to indulge the affection she has for the only family member who seems to appreciate her. * Speaking of Roman...I could be totally off on my reading here, but after Logan pitched a fit about a rat speaking to Pierce, I started thinking that Roman only reached out to Pierce in the first place because he was secretly trying to sabotage a deal everyone knows is bad news. That may be me giving Roman too much credit, though. * Tom not selling out Greg was an unexpected but welcome development...and then that little pat he gave Greg at breakfast the next morning. Not that I expect Tom to keep protecting Greg -- I'm sure some kind of epic betrayal is on its way -- but to have him sell Greg out in the middle of that humiliating dinner would have been too much. I felt for him when Logan called him a moron. KC did well with that scene.