S03.E08: Unfit

[txhorns79]

15 hours ago, Miles said:

It's the writers wanting their cake and eating it, too. In the book that kind of medical technology is banned, presumably as some kind of work of the devil and replaced by weird ceremonies. But in the show it is commonly used, yet you still get the births with these weird ceremonies but without medical equipment.

Btw. I was a bit baffled that they didn't even try CPR.

I find Gilead's whole baby regime to be baffling.  It's just so strange to me that a society that is clearly insane to get healthy babies, purposefully takes steps to make it harder for a woman to give birth to a healthy baby.  I mean, it isn't like the bizarro birthing ritual couldn't be done in a hospital with a medical team on standby should there be complications.     

[scrb]

How many episodes are left?

We're more than halfway at least right?

So this season so far has been about them trying to get the baby back to Gilead and now June trying to find Hanna.

So signs of the resistance in the last couple of episodes maybe and then a cliffhanger?

[Dessert]

3 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

But she did her hair and makeup though. Her HAIR AND MAKEUP!! And she wore SEQUINS!!!

What is a woman if she can’t get a man to give it to her? Well she becomes a bitter aunt who encourages rape and torture, that’s what.

So remember ladies, if you don’t get the “d” there’s no point in living life for yourself, none whatsoever, just give up.

Give up and make sure the whole world BURNS!!!!!!

I know!!! I’ve come to realize that this show has actually become the opposite of feminist, but I couldn’t believe last night. So Aunt Lydia was a repressed, sex-starved, fat woman who didn’t know how to use make up and be a girly girl. Rejection and not getting a man turned her into a sadistic, monstrous enforcer for the dictatorship ...okay. 

I didn’t like last season and skipped over huge sections. Now I’m just hate watching and I rarely do that.

When June didn’t leave with her baby at the end of last season, it made no sense and was obviously done just for series renewal purposes. She would’ve had a much better chance of getting Hannah out of Gilead by working with the resistance in Canada.

Nothing she or any of the characters do makes any sense now. It’s actually bizarre.

[chocolatine]

5 hours ago, PepSinger said:

Y’all. Y’ALL. Grown ass women sat in a circle pointing at another woman calling her a “crybaby.” It was so fucking embarrassing.

I don’t even recognize this show anymore.

5 hours ago, Umbelina said:

They've had handmaids sit in a circle and repeat whatever Aunt Lydia said since the beginning of the show, while pointing their fingers at the one in the middle chair.  "Her fault!"  (about someone who had been raped)

Spoiler-tagging my reply since it references the book:

Spoiler

The "shame circle" is just about the only thing this season that is still true to the source. That scene from S1 happened verbatim in the book. Oh, and the rape victim in question was none other than Janine, who was gang-raped at age 14, but Aunt Lydia still insisted that Janine had provoked it. The "shame circle" is meant to cause complete emotional breakdown in the victim so that Aunt Lydia can "rebuild" her to comply with Gilead ideals. (BTW, the psychological abuse Janine had to suffer in the book was much worse to me than the physical abuse she's suffered on the show. Poor woman.)

Edited July 11, 2019 by chocolatine

[Miles]

I think we all get that the shame circle has been used beffore and is from the book, but it's still laughable when they use it to say "crybaby". "Shame", "weak", "her fault", etc. seem reasonable to tear somebody down, but "crybaby"? I'm surprised that actually rattled her and she didn't just break out laughing.

[ferjy]

7 hours ago, Umbelina said:

They've had handmaids sit in a circle and repeat whatever Aunt Lydia said since the beginning of the show, while pointing their fingers at the one in the middle chair.  "Her fault!"  (about someone who had been raped)

Yes but they were forced to do it. This time they all happily partook in it like spoiled adolescents, with the addition of ringleader June squealing on Ofmatthew of her own free will, smug face intact. I guess we were supposed to cheer for her (June).

[Anela]

4 hours ago, Dessert said:

I know!!! I’ve come to realize that this show has actually become the opposite of feminist, but I couldn’t believe last night. So Aunt Lydia was a repressed, sex-starved, fat woman who didn’t know how to use make up and be a girly girl. Rejection and not getting a man turned her into a sadistic, monstrous enforcer for the dictatorship ...okay. 

I didn’t like last season and skipped over huge sections. Now I’m just hate watching and I rarely do that.

When June didn’t leave with her baby at the end of last season, it made no sense and was obviously done just for series renewal purposes. She would’ve had a much better chance of getting Hannah out of Gilead by working with the resistance in Canada.

Nothing she or any of the characters do makes any sense now. It’s actually bizarre.

I read something about June telling Lawrence that he could have got her out of there if he'd wanted to... um, wasn't that what the end of season two was about?? She chose not to go! 

[alexvillage]

14 hours ago, Whimsy said:

I'm not necessarily saying the writers are flip-flopping, but there are racist people even in this diverse world.  That Commander and wife could just be racist assholes. 

And here we have another example of missed plot opportunities the writers could have explored to go beyond the book and justify their cholce of including the handmaids of color and ignore Gilead's white supremacist ideology. They could have used one of the close ups to introduce a line about the value of having PoC, I guess it would be black people in particular, as vital to increase the number of births and THEN having the racist couple say whatever they said. 

I said many times that one of the things that bug me the most about the series versus the book is the white supremacist erasure. This little made up plot that I - a non-writer, definitely not creative - imagine would at least explain that. Instead, we get bullshit.

[Whimsy]

8 hours ago, angora said:

I thought it was less about Lydia being rejected and more about the rejection snapping her out of her "lust" to realize her "sin." It wasn't that he didn't want to sleep with her; it was that she tried to go further than he wanted when she's not "supposed" to be the one wanting that at all. It made her feel disgusted with and ashamed of herself, and she, it seems, blamed Noelle for "goading" her on and "making" her sin.

That’s very logical and makes sense, but I don’t think they portrayed that very clearly onscreen. 

[film noire]

15 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

So since Lydia couldn't get the D she went off the rails?

Welcome to The Handmaid's Tail,  where dick has magical properties -  properties that lady-parts need to remain sane, due to our brains being in our wombs (blessed be the manroot!) -  sadly, Lydia did not have access to the sacred dong and so she lost her lady-shit and turned into the Alexis Carrington of Gilead. 

Because - as every woman knows! - a chick without access to dick always turns sick. 

Edited July 11, 2019 by film noire

[sockii]

The only good things about this episode were the scene of the Aunts discussing placements, and the complete lack of the Waterfords.

Beyond that, I've got nothing.

[Joana]

4 hours ago, Whimsy said:

That’s very logical and makes sense, but I don’t think they portrayed that very clearly onscreen. 

Agreed. If that's where they were going with that story, and I believe they were, then Aunt Lydia needed to be portrayed somewhat differently.

For starters, she's not even overly religious. Yes, she's conservative and quotes the Bible and whatnot, but that's literally how millions of people act. She's certainly not Carrie's (of Stephen King's novel) mother. She knows Noelle is sleeping around and while she's not approving of such lifestyle (and frankly, a lot of irreligious people wouldn't be either), that doesn't bother her enough to stop her from seemingly genuinely bonding with her. I guess they wanted to show that she already had the tendency to "fix" women (her "You could be better!" line), like's she's doing now as an Aunt, but the way she goes about helping Noelle (trying to get her to get a decent job, settle down with a good man etc.) is simply incomparable with the monstrosity of Gilead's handmaid system. 

Moreover, she's clearly very much into the principal and she's really not that perturbed about that fact. They're awkwardly flirting from the beginning. She's willing to go dancing. She's willing to invite him over and make the first move. If her "straying" is what sent her down the shame spiral, it would have been much more effective if she had made a pass on that man and he coldly and flatly rejected her (thus adding insult to injury), instead of clearly stating that likes her and wants to spend time for her, but is just not quite ready yet for something physical. Or alternatively, if they had had sex, and she liked it, but couldn't cope with it later, feeling she had betrayed herself - but for that, they would have needed to amp up her religiosity.

The way it was presented, it really looked like a tired cliche of a scorned woman going cray-cray, which does no benefit to anyone and is frankly insulting.

Also, what I found odd is that there were absolutely no hints that she was acquainted with Sons of Jacob and their ideology at the time, no use of Gileadean "Newspeak". One would think she'd already be well on her way of becoming a "true believer" at that point.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Joana

[AllyB]

11 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

You know what I noticed about the Aunt Lydia flashback? The world looks “normal”, but the flashback is certainly in the early days of Gilead- the child protective worker asked about church attendance? She said they had a responsibility to report “moral weakness”? On her New Year’s Eve date she said that all of Family Law services had been privatized??? Ummmm- the writers can drop hints and write something decent went they want to, those details were golden. 

I don't know. These nuggets just highlighted the complete lack of thought that went into the world building of this episode. Just a few lines stuck in when the writers remembered they had to do something to show that Gilead was sneaking in. I wanted a better idea of when this episode was set and as we aren't given a clue my guess is that it was obviously before congress was blown up but after Hannah's birth. I have no reason for assuming the latter, so perhaps it was earlier. If it was after Hannah's birth there is obviously a severe fertility crisis already under way. Apart from the fact that there are many good couples who'd love a child, this is never mentioned, nor is there any feel of this being a world under fertility and environmental pressure. Despite the main three characters in the flashbacks being a mother and two people who work with children there is no sense of unease about the shortage of children. A school principle would be dealing with significantly lowered pupil numbers leading to class consolidation and making teachers redundant. Or if this was a religious school of the right flavour, sopping up the pupils from the surrounding areas as their school closes. This could be a part of Noelle's problem with being late as her son had to move schools and the commute is difficult.

We also have a situation where Lydia has moved into teaching around the time an oversupply of teachers would become obvious. She came from family law which would be far too intellectual a job for a woman in the eyes of the Sons of Jacob. Wouldn't it have been interesting if she had a pastor/religious advisor/former boss who had nudged her towards teaching in this 'proper' school as opposed to working in a less womanly field. If she was told her work as a teacher was a better opportunity to do God's work and that's why she switched fields. While in reality she was being groomed as an aunt. We could have the same story beats where her human side first interprets her role as someone who attempts to make things better for a struggling mother and her child and eventually her shame at her sins warps itself into the beginnings of someone who wants to punish sinners and she reports Noelle for her failings.

None of that backstory would need to be done so explicitly that it feels 'overly on the nose' but it could be done in a way that gives a real sense of the beginnings of the change that people are sleepwalking into. And the unease about the fertility rate that we should have been made conscious of. But this show almost always forgets the world has fertility issues apart from the few occasions where it goes so very ott with them, (Hannah's birth where all the other babies died overnight & no babies in Mexico.) While in Canada, in the episode where Hannah started nursery, at Moira's lamaze class, here at the school, nobody ever acts like children are rare and potentially fragile.

Also, I don't believe for one second that even this crushing on her boss version of Lydia would be choosing Thomas Edison for her 20 questions game. A freethinker scientist who believed in nature as his version of a god. Sure! She'd have been teaching the kids that people like him were the beginnings of the world's problems and choosing someone like John Cotton for her 20 questions game.

Eta; I mean come to think of it Edison, inventor of the freaking lightbulb. A device the Commanders of Gilead are almost allergic to! No way would he have been picked!

Edited July 11, 2019 by AllyB

[violet and green]

20 hours ago, Penman61 said:

[Me, at that penultimate long, static shot of June standing in the trail of blood)]:

Well, at least this episode isn't ending another closeup of Moss's (admirably tiny) nose pores...

[Me, milliseconds later, as the camera inexorably swoops into yet another goddamn motherfucking closeup of Moss's nose pores to end an episode]:

Yeah, it was unbelievable. I thought, you're not.... you're not going to.... seriously? No! ...again? Surely not?! No! Yep, you did.

Have they no shame?

In the alternate universe of everyone involved in this season, I imagine they all clapped each other on the back and highfived around the editing suite at that. I suppose it all starts with the writing (bad) and story arcs (nonexistant), but at some point someone decided that doing this would be a good idea, to repeat ad infinitum throughout the season. No. It isn't.

Edited July 11, 2019 by violet and green
typo

[littlemommy]

I can only assume that the writers/ show runners are stuck in an echo chamber of self congratulation and cannot see that their vision has collapsed, nor can they understand why people are unhappy with the episodes.

I truly appreciate the posters here that try to make this sow’s ear into a silk purse. I’d like to think that you are seeing what the writers may have intended, but that is sadly not what the show has portrayed at all. This show needs a lot of harsh focus groups before it airs and the producers need to listen of people tell them things are unclear or just plain crazy. Their vision may be crystalline in their heads, but they can’t communicate it, and it feels like the show is failing.

A friend of mine just got Hulu and wants to watch this show. I told her to force herself to stop after season one.

[chaifan]

Wow.  What a total letdown of a background story.  The showrunners built this up, kept us waiting 2 1/2 seasons for this, and THIS is what we got?  I agree with all the posts above - woman goes cray cray because she's (rather nicely and politely and for good reasons) rejected by a man.  Yes, there are other nuances, but that is what it boils down to.  I would love to believe that we'll see more of Aunt Lydia's backstory, but if that were the case, wouldn't that have been mentioned in the showrunner & actor interviews?  Something along the lines of "In episode 8, we get our first glimpse into Aunt Lydia's pre-Gilead life.  Her story will continue to unfold through the rest of the season."  But we've heard nothing of that, just "Hey, here's the backstory y'all have been waiting for!" 

What bothers me about the handmaid chanting circle is that there's no indication that any of them see this as totally stupid.  In early scenes of the red center, June & Moira had a bunch of eyerolls, but others did, too.  And we know current handmaids who know this is all BS.  So it would be nice to see that in silly situations like this - yeah, they are forced to participate, but give us a few "seriously?" type glances, side eyes, etc. 

At this point, the only characters in Gilead who interest me are the Lawrences.

[The Mighty Peanut]

10 hours ago, rubinia said:

The thing that bugged me about Lydia’s backstory was that yes, the guy rejected her, but only because he said it was too soon after his wife’s death. Embarrassing, definitely, but it’s not as if he recoiled in horror and called her ugly and disgusting or anything. He said he wanted to “see” her again... Not that that makes her actions any more reasonable, but...

Right, exactly. He was still interested, IMO. He wanted to see her again, he was clearly open to a physical relationship, he just didn't want to have sex that night. But in Gilead the laws of the universe are a bit wonky and every action has an unequal and nonsensical reaction. Rejected by religious widower-->have someone else's children removed-->beat women with cattle prods until they submit to ritualized rape. Do everything possible to facilitate healthy childbirth-->don't even try CPR with stillborns. 

[rubinia]

3 hours ago, Whimsy said:

That’s very logical and makes sense, but I don’t think they portrayed that very clearly onscreen. 

Agree with that interpretation of Lydia's breakdown, and also agree it wasn't portrayed very well. I still think it's some BS though considering the guy was still into her, etc., just not RIGHT THEN.

[ferjy]

On 7/10/2019 at 9:26 AM, AnswersWanted said:

They were her second posting,

Thanks. I thought it was her first because of the way she reacted to the first time the Waterfords had their ceremony (i.e. Fred raped her). It was as if it was her first ceremony. But I guess they were showing that it’s always disgusting no matter how many times you’ve been through it. I’m going to have to rewatch the first season again at some point (memories of when I actually enjoyed the episodes!), I’ve forgotten a lot. Did we see her with her first placement or was it just a brief mention?

[LBS]

I know there is a lot of criticism for this show and its use of "torture porn" when it comes to the Handmaids but I never, ever, wanted it more than when June is just watching and not participating in the ritual birth, talking back to the Aunts and commanders, and basically flouting all the past established laws of Gilead.   To be clear, I don't want to watch anyone be brutally punished and I fast forwarded a lot of that in the past seasons but nothing is making sense anymore.  I've been more open to this season than a lot of you and did a lot of mental fanwanking to make the plot work but this episode turned me over to the hate-watching camp (although I reserve my right to change sides if the final episodes right the tide because much like Janine I will try and find some good in this season even when it punches me in the face)

The one thing I did like about this episode was the scene with the Aunts choosing the Handmaids.  I liked it for the fact that is showed the whole bureaucratic, mundane-ness of Gilead.   They are literally choosing the fate of these women while chit-chatting and gossiping.  That gave me goosebumps because that is how evil is spread.  By ordinary people just doing their job and not questioning the reason behind the job.  Show us more of that, writers! Gilead became Gilead based on the back of normal people.  How did they get that way?  When did seeing Handmaids become the norm?  

[ferjy]

On 7/10/2019 at 10:03 AM, Baltimore Betty said:

but I want to know what happened to her sister's baby she talked about in an episode before Holly was born.

We’re thinking now that it may have been an honorary nephew she was talking about, and Noelle’s son. Maybe they’ll show more of Lydia’s back story and or will elaborate on the issue. Though I don’t have much confidence in these writers and we may never know. 

[Eureka]

5 hours ago, Anela said:

I read something about June telling Lawrence that he could have got her out of there if he'd wanted to... um, wasn't that what the end of season two was about?? She chose not to go! 

I thought she was talking about he could have gotten his wife out.

[ferjy]

On 7/10/2019 at 10:38 AM, AnswersWanted said:

The way she waggled her eyebrows at Ofmatthew and used her eyes to gesture towards Lydia right before she pointed the gun at her definitely gave me telekinesis vibes as well. 

I half expected lasers to come out of June’s eyes. Every week they give her more power and it makes for ludicrous scenarios. 

[ferjy]

23 hours ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

Yes! A hat signal for when a handmaid is in jeopardy. Then June comes and puts them in worse jeopardy. 

23 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

Handmaid (currently hiding in the bushes) : You’ve come to rescue me??

The handmaid was probably cowering behind the shrubbery hiding from June, begging “Please don’t save me.” Word has got around.

[goldilocks]

32 minutes ago, LBS said:

The one thing I did like about this episode was the scene with the Aunts choosing the Handmaids.  I liked it for the fact that is showed the whole bureaucratic, mundane-ness of Gilead.   They are literally choosing the fate of these women while chit-chatting and gossiping.  That gave me goosebumps because that is how evil is spread.  By ordinary people just doing their job and not questioning the reason behind the job.  Show us more of that, writers! Gilead became Gilead based on the back of normal people.  How did they get that way?  When did seeing Handmaids become the norm?  

It was a good glimpse. I hope they show us more, particularly when Gilead started. 

[rubinia]

 

 

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36 minutes ago, LBS said:

The one thing I did like about this episode was the scene with the Aunts choosing the Handmaids.  I liked it for the fact that is showed the whole bureaucratic, mundane-ness of Gilead.   They are literally choosing the fate of these women while chit-chatting and gossiping.  That gave me goosebumps because that is how evil is spread.  By ordinary people just doing their job and not questioning the reason behind the job.  Show us more of that, writers! Gilead became Gilead based on the back of normal people.  How did they get that way?  When did seeing Handmaids become the norm?  

Agree! That part was legit interesting. And the Aunts enjoying some sherry even though it's outlawed (they're hypocrites as much as anyone else).

[goldilocks]

On 7/10/2019 at 2:19 PM, scrb said:

So she didn't do her duties with the birth mother and she ran the Mean Girls brigade.

Yeah, because no one else is hurting like June is. 🙄 And the fact remains that SHE KEEPS GETTING AWAY WITH IT.  Any other handmaid would have suffered an awful punishment for not doing her duty at the birthing ceremony. 

Edited July 13, 2019 by goldilocks
Spelling

[Trillian]

1 hour ago, ferjy said:

We’re thinking now that it may have been an honorary nephew she was talking about, and Noelle’s son. Maybe they’ll show more of Lydia’s back story and or will elaborate on the issue. Though I don’t have much confidence in these writers and we may never know. 

But how can that be, when she said specifically that she was godmother to her sister’s son?  Unless they now baptize the kid or something, the godmother comment doesn’t fit.

Joining  the conga line here.  I swore, when I tuned in this week, that I was going to watch with an open mind and try to like it.  When June sassed off to Aunt Lydia without even a slap, I just lost that happy thought and it kept getting worse.  You know what, Lydia?  If June really is the only person in Gilead who is completely untouchable (and seriously, WTF?), make her watch while you beat the shit out of someone else in her place.  Maybe poor Janine.  That would alienate her from all the other Handmaids, even if it doesn’t teach her that there are consequences to her foolhardy actions.  Geez, even Tony Soprano had a conscience.  June has become the most unlikeable protagonist ever. The only thing that can redeem this show for me now is that if they kill her off and that they won’t do.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Trillian
Damn Autocorrect

[ferjy]

13 hours ago, DesertCyclist said:

It's very difficult to watch a show when you don't like the protagonist.

It is. They’ve made her into a villain, and not a villain we love to hate. Just one we hate. 

[meganb123]

during the show when aunt lydia told june she’ll get a new assignment, wouldn’t it be cool if she somehow got moved to chicago and nick was her assignment 

[goldilocks]

29 minutes ago, rubinia said:

Agree! That part was legit interesting. And the Aunts enjoying some sherry even though it's outlawed (they're hypocrites as much as anyone else).

Is drinking forbidden for everyone? I missed that. I thought I saw people having drinks, the wives and commanders maybe. No?

[ferjy]

28 minutes ago, Trillian said:

But how can that be, when she said specifically that she was godmother to her sister’s son?  Unless they now baptize the kid or something, the godmother comment doesn’t fit.

I didn’t remember her specifying that it was her sister’s son. Maybe Noelle will end up being her sister.  😄 Anything is possible with these writers!

Re the being the godmother, that will just be another thing they forgot. 😉

Edited July 11, 2019 by ferjy

[Trillian]

3 minutes ago, ferjy said:

I didn’t remember her specifying that it was her sister’s son. Maybe Noelle will end up being her sister.  😄 Anything is possible with these writers!

“I was godmother to my sister’s child.  He died when he was four days old .... “.  It  stuck in my head because I remember thinking at the time that fundamentalists usually don’t baptize infants.  It’s usually more of a Catholic thing. The quotation is at 2:14:

[Save Yourself]

I was seriously worried they were going to have June resuscitate the baby when she went to look at her, I’m surprised the writers restrained from imbuing June with even more super powers. 

[ferjy]

6 minutes ago, Trillian said:

“I was godmother to my sister’s child.  He died when he was four days old .... “.  It  stuck in my head because I remember thinking at the time that fundamentalists usually don’t baptize infants.  It’s usually more of a Catholic thing. The quotation is at 2:14:

Thanks. Four days old, well there goes that theory! 

[Joana]

4 minutes ago, Save Yourself said:

I was seriously worried they were going to have June resuscitate the baby when she went to look at her, I’m surprised the writers restrained from imbuing June with even more super powers. 

That's what I was thinking too. 

The other thing I was worried about was that Lydia will be aroused by Noelle when she was putting on her make-up and that it will turn out she's a repressed lesbian all along. Well, that's at least one tired ass cliche they spared us from. Always be grateful for the small things!

[Cornhusker12]

14 hours ago, DesertCyclist said:

It's very difficult to watch a show when you don't like the protagonist.

It's also very difficult for a show based on a sick horrific alternate reality specifically built to keep the protagonist down, to make you dislike the protagonist. An unbelievable feat, really!

Edited July 11, 2019 by huskerj12

[rubinia]

1 hour ago, goldilocks said:

Is drinking forbidden for everyone? I missed that. I thought I saw people having drinks, the wives and commanders maybe. No?

Oh, you are probably right. I just remember them having drinks at Jezebel's and it being super special and forbidden, but maybe just forbidden for anyone not a wife/commander.

47 minutes ago, Joana said:

That's what I was thinking too. 

The other thing I was worried about was that Lydia will be aroused by Noelle when she was putting on her make-up and that it will turn out she's a repressed lesbian all along. Well, that's at least one tired ass cliche they spared us from. Always be grateful for the small things!

I was thinking either the lesbian angle or that the principal would get all sexual assault-y on Lydia once they got back to her apartment on New Year's. I was really glad that didn't happen since he seemed like such a nice guy.

[Penman61]

I guess I analyze fictional characters for a living (teach Lit), but you know...sometimes a backstory (at least a LOST-type one) is not necessary.

Some people, irrespective of dating history, are just sadistic shits, and some political/social systems reward shit people's shitty behavior. Gilead is obviously one of those systems.

And a backstory is especially not necessary if it just reinforces hoary misogynist tropes about a woman not being fully human without a man. Ugh.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Penman61

[Umbelina]

5 hours ago, Joana said:

For starters, she's not even overly religious. Yes, she's conservative and quotes the Bible and whatnot, but that's literally how millions of people act. She's certainly not Carrie's (of Stephen King's novel) mother. She knows Noelle is sleeping around and while she's not approving of such lifestyle (and frankly, a lot of irreligious people wouldn't be either), that doesn't bother her enough to stop her from seemingly genuinely bonding with her. I guess they wanted to show that she already had the tendency to "fix" women (her "You could be better!" line), like's she's doing now as an Aunt, but the way she goes about helping Noelle (trying to get her to get a decent job, settle down with a good man etc.) is simply incomparable with the monstrosity of Gilead's handmaid system. 

I saw THIS incident as the shameful thing that pushed her over into fanatically religious.  She hung out with a sinner, was corrupted by that sinner, then sinned herself trying for fornication, already made with "lust" and probably throw a little "envy" and who knows what else into her transgressions.

It changed her, and it had absolutely nothing to do with "not getting dick."  It had to do with humiliation and sin and starting down "the devil's path" by becoming friendly with an adulterous cocktail waitress, and letting that woman "paint her face" and send her out to sin.

Her sins, and associating with a sinner happily, led to pain and shame and despair.  Never again would she stray from the strict word of the bible, as she, and the "new Gileadeans" interpret it.

9 hours ago, ferjy said:

Yes but they were forced to do it. This time they all happily partook in it like spoiled adolescents, with the addition of ringleader June squealing on Ofmatthew of her own free will, smug face intact. I guess we were supposed to cheer for her (June).

You think they arranged this circle? 

A few of them, like (what is her name?  She was the one who seemed to start the shunning and she's been in the resistance longer than June?) , are also in the resistance.  Ofmathew was a snitch, who just got (at least) two other resistance members killed (the guard and the Martha.)  Even those who are not fully in the resistance seem to support it in their hearts. 

They are slaves, raped daily, forced to murder people, forced to do anything they are told to do.  They refused once, to stone Janine to death, and they paid that price.  Of course they want to "stick it to the man" and are happy when one escapes, or even when Emily drives a car and kills a guard, or when one of "their" children makes it out (in this case, June's.) 

They will not be kind to snitches, because the one that snitches on one of them could snitch on any of them.  They hate her for that, and so would I.

8 hours ago, Anela said:

I read something about June telling Lawrence that he could have got her out of there if he'd wanted to... um, wasn't that what the end of season two was about?? She chose not to go! 

June was telling him he could get his WIFE out, which would help her, that leaving her in this horrible place that she obviously hates is hurting her.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Umbelina
can't remember that handmaid's name

[Umbelina]

6 hours ago, Whimsy said:

That’s very logical and makes sense, but I don’t think they portrayed that very clearly onscreen. 

It's the way I saw it as it played out.  I almost wonder if the disappointment of the other episodes (especially the last two) shaded the reception of this one.  Once you lose faith in writers, it's hard to go on the ride they are showing you this time.

It seemed very clear to me that this was Lydia's "the wages of sin" transition to full fanatic, and the reasons for that added up for me.  It started innocently enough (in Lydia's mind) with letting a "slut" into her home, and starting to like her, and probably liking having company too.  Also, it was for righteous reason right?  Caring and feeding a child.  Then it moved to the "slut" painting her face and encouraging Lydia to "get out there" blah blah blah led to lust and attempted fornication and the resulting shame.  So Lydia went full on crazy religious.

She's also a hypocrite of course, because she "punished" someone else for her own sins, and blamed that young mother as well, but hey!  She had "the bible" on her side, and from then on, she would wield that as a weapon to anyone who stepped out of line, for "their own good" of course.  As for herself?  She would never allow herself to be humiliated like that again, would never even consider "sinning" again.  Her interpretation of what sinning is, of course, completely warped, but it's not unusual, not in Gilead, and not on our planet.  Eve tempted Adam and it was all downhill for women from that.

[Cornhusker12]

42 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

It's the way I saw it as it played out.  I almost wonder if the disappointment of the other episodes (especially the last two) shaded the reception of this one.  Once you lose faith in writers, it's hard to go on the ride they are showing you this time.

It seemed very clear to me that this was Lydia's "the wages of sin" transition to full fanatic, and the reasons for that added up for me.  It started innocently enough (in Lydia's mind) with letting a "slut" into her home, and starting to like her, and probably liking having company too.  Also, it was for righteous reason right?  Caring and feeding a child.  Then it moved to the "slut" painting her face and encouraging Lydia to "get out there" blah blah blah led to lust and attempted fornication and the resulting shame.  So Lydia went full on crazy religious.

She's also a hypocrite of course, because she "punished" someone else for her own sins, and blamed that young mother as well, but hey!  She had "the bible" on her side, and from then on, she would wield that as a weapon to anyone who stepped out of line, for "their own good" of course.  As for herself?  She would never allow herself to be humiliated like that again, would never even consider "sinning" again.  Her interpretation of what sinning is, of course, completely warped, but it's not unusual, not in Gilead, and not on our planet.  Eve tempted Adam and it was all downhill for women from that.

I think you're right that the writers were trying to show that, for sure. But it's such a GIANT leap from one to the other that I hope we end up seeing more of how she went from that normal-for-millions-of-people life to the pure zealotry and insanity that we see just a few  years later in the show's modern timeline.

Like outside of quoting a benign passage from the bible and saying a quick prayer with the principal they showed no indication that she was even super religious, let alone on the fundamentalist side of religion, let alone sympathetic to a Sons Of Jacob type of worldview. She was a little judgmental, and obviously kinda plain and conservative, but she seemed kind and formed a relationship with the mom and son and went out for drinks and dancing and all this stuff that doesn't compute with the Lydia we've seen unless there was a pretty spectacular snowball effect from her one "shameful" sexual misunderstanding.

I know we're supposed to connect those dots as the audience but it's also kinda bad writing to just "yada yada yada" that type of journey if they want to show us her backstory at all.

Edited July 11, 2019 by huskerj12

[Umbelina]

4 hours ago, chaifan said:

What bothers me about the handmaid chanting circle is that there's no indication that any of them see this as totally stupid.  In early scenes of the red center, June & Moira had a bunch of eyerolls, but others did, too.  And we know current handmaids who know this is all BS.  So it would be nice to see that in silly situations like this - yeah, they are forced to participate, but give us a few "seriously?" type glances, side eyes, etc. 

Lydia has beaten the side-eyes out of them by this point in the story, they've had years of finding out what is worth fighting and what isn't.  (Not stoning poor Janine to death, worth it.  Acting up at one of these endless circle punishments?  Not worth it.)  They all know it's bullshit, no need to risk sharing that, especially with snitches like OfMathew watching and ready to pounce and turn them in.

An aside here before I continue with the interesting quotes below.  I agree completely that these writers suck donkey balls, and it's a shame.  That last two episodes practically pushed me over the edge they were so terrible.  Whenever this showrunner tries "world building" he fails miserably, from the trading handmaids to Mexico, to the cast sitting around with their thumbs up their asses in Canada instead of actually DOING SOMETHING to help those trapped in Gilead, interviews, youtubes, talking to what's left of the USA, etc.) to this last bit of nonsense with Switzerland (!) and the custody battle?  I just want to scream or cry about what idiots they are.  Last season was also stupid, continuity was nonexistent, and the constant PERIL! Nah, JUST KIDDING! was infuriating and frustrating.

This particular episode though?  Actually did make sense to me, and while it wasn't great?  karaoke, really, copying Better Call Saul now?  For the most part, it held together for me completely, which is about as "good" as this show can get these days.

5 hours ago, AllyB said:

I don't know. These nuggets just highlighted the complete lack of thought that went into the world building of this episode. Just a few lines stuck in when the writers remembered they had to do something to show that Gilead was sneaking in. I wanted a better idea of when this episode was set and as we aren't given a clue my guess is that it was obviously before congress was blown up but after Hannah's birth. I have no reason for assuming the latter, so perhaps it was earlier. If it was after Hannah's birth there is obviously a severe fertility crisis already under way. Apart from the fact that there are many good couples who'd love a child, this is never mentioned, nor is there any feel of this being a world under fertility and environmental pressure. Despite the main three characters in the flashbacks being a mother and two people who work with children there is no sense of unease about the shortage of children. A school principle would be dealing with significantly lowered pupil numbers leading to class consolidation and making teachers redundant. Or if this was a religious school of the right flavour, sopping up the pupils from the surrounding areas as their school closes. This could be a part of Noelle's problem with being late as her son had to move schools and the commute is difficult.

We also have a situation where Lydia has moved into teaching around the time an oversupply of teachers would become obvious. She came from family law which would be far too intellectual a job for a woman in the eyes of the Sons of Jacob. Wouldn't it have been interesting if she had a pastor/religious advisor/former boss who had nudged her towards teaching in this 'proper' school as opposed to working in a less womanly field. If she was told her work as a teacher was a better opportunity to do God's work and that's why she switched fields. While in reality she was being groomed as an aunt. We could have the same story beats where her human side first interprets her role as someone who attempts to make things better for a struggling mother and her child and eventually her shame at her sins warps itself into the beginnings of someone who wants to punish sinners and she reports Noelle for her failings.

None of that backstory would need to be done so explicitly that it feels 'overly on the nose' but it could be done in a way that gives a real sense of the beginnings of the change that people are sleepwalking into. And the unease about the fertility rate that we should have been made conscious of. But this show almost always forgets the world has fertility issues apart from the few occasions where it goes so very ott with them, (Hannah's birth where all the other babies died overnight & no babies in Mexico.) While in Canada, in the episode where Hannah started nursery, at Moira's lamaze class, here at the school, nobody ever acts like children are rare and potentially fragile.

Also, I don't believe for one second that even this crushing on her boss version of Lydia would be choosing Thomas Edison for her 20 questions game. A freethinker scientist who believed in nature as his version of a god. Sure! She'd have been teaching the kids that people like him were the beginnings of the world's problems and choosing someone like John Cotton for her 20 questions game.

Eta; I mean come to think of it Edison, inventor of the freaking lightbulb. A device the Commanders of Gilead are almost allergic to! No way would he have been picked!

Excellent points, while I don't think they could or would answer all of our questions in just one episode, true world builders would have addressed some of these issues.  Especially "moving into teaching" unless of course, teachers had already fled or changed jobs because of lack of students?  Which again, not addressed.

4 hours ago, violet and green said:

Yeah, it was unbelievable. I thought, you're not.... you're not going to.... seriously? No! ...again? Surely not?! No! Yep, you did.

Have they no shame?

In the alternate universe of everyone involved in this season, I imagine they all clapped each other on the back and highfived around the editing suite at that. I suppose it all starts with the writing (bad) and story arcs (nonexistant), but at some point someone decided that doing this would be a good idea, to repeat ad infinitum throughout the season. No. It isn't.

Sadly, I think this is true.

Last season though (which was terrible IMO) the critics began to turn on them and the kudos in the form of awards seriously dried up, so it's hard for me to believe they don't realize at least part of that.

I THINK they are trying to correct some issues this season.  Some of the things they are doing SEEM to be leading to a course correction, but they are not doing them well. 

For example, I love "no fucks left to give June."  I applaud them removing Hannah, for example, because with Hannah's location known, June pretty much has been locked into putting all her focus on saving her daughter.  Which?  Is understandable and admirable, but somehow these writers have even managed to muddy that, mostly by having June do idiotic and unbelievable things (the school.)

No, June is not that stupid, and screw your "cinematic grief shot" which would ONLY have maybe/kinda made sense if this was the very first time June had been near Hannah.  Which, HELLO!  She was JUST with her. 

Unbelievably bad writing, which taints everything that follows, including this episode.

4 hours ago, littlemommy said:

I can only assume that the writers/ show runners are stuck in an echo chamber of self congratulation and cannot see that their vision has collapsed, nor can they understand why people are unhappy with the episodes.

I truly appreciate the posters here that try to make this sow’s ear into a silk purse. I’d like to think that you are seeing what the writers may have intended, but that is sadly not what the show has portrayed at all. This show needs a lot of harsh focus groups before it airs and the producers need to listen of people tell them things are unclear or just plain crazy. Their vision may be crystalline in their heads, but they can’t communicate it, and it feels like the show is failing.

A friend of mine just got Hulu and wants to watch this show. I told her to force herself to stop after season one.

I'm really not "trying to make a silk purse" and I do call out the terrible writing when I see it.

For me though, except for the two previous episodes, this season was a vast improvement over season two, which I seriously disliked.  This particular episode though?  I watched, and I watched carefully, maybe because I'm rewatching season 4 of Better Call Saul, so my brain is tuned to "watch carefully, everything means something."  So, this episode was SO much better than the previous two I was and am kind of grateful.

4 hours ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

Right, exactly. He was still interested, IMO. He wanted to see her again, he was clearly open to a physical relationship, he just didn't want to have sex that night. But in Gilead the laws of the universe are a bit wonky and every action has an unequal and nonsensical reaction. Rejected by religious widower-->have someone else's children removed-->beat women with cattle prods until they submit to ritualized rape. Do everything possible to facilitate healthy childbirth-->don't even try CPR with stillborns. 

You are absolutely right about healthy births of course, but remember, they blame scientists and doctors for the ills of the world.  Most of them are dead.  They are big into "natural" since Gilead's who premise is about natural, green, fuck the intelligentsia they ruined our beautiful planet.  They usually do care more for the pregnant handmaids that the ones trying to get pregnant, and again, you are right, but those women are sinners.

For the first part though?  Lydia was humiliated because she, in front of her boss, was trying to SIN, was in full on lust, practically raping him to fornicate, after being painted by a "slut and sinner" who, among other things, including neglecting her child, was having affairs with several men, including a married man with children. 

It was never about not "getting dick."  It was always about the sin.  Frankly, had they actually fucked?  I think the result would have been the same for Lydia, overwhelming, life changing GUILT about sinning, and a fanatical re-commitment to the bible.

3 hours ago, rubinia said:

Agree with that interpretation of Lydia's breakdown, and also agree it wasn't portrayed very well. I still think it's some BS though considering the guy was still into her, etc., just not RIGHT THEN.

She was a lonely woman, untouched, it's why that scene with the mother lovingly applying make up also hit.  It was never a lesbian thing, it was an older, not conventionally attractive woman, actually being seen, and touched.  It overwhelmed her, and in her mind later, was flat out temptation by the devil.

Here's my main question though.  If the show was generally well written?  If it were Breaking Bad levels of great writing/directing/etc?  Would we have gone on this ride with them, would we have seen this episode differently, and watched Aunt Lydia's first steps into a "life" going drastically wrong, becoming embarrassing, and humiliating, and leading to her fanaticism? 

Basically I'm asking, would we need more scenes to "get that" if we had any trust in this team?  I really wonder.  (Again, I'm watching BCS, which also doesn't fill in every hole, but they don't need to because we trust them, so we SEE more) and perhaps that's why my hate for these writers was suspended in this one, and I actually liked it, didn't love it, but "got it."  (I think)

3 hours ago, LBS said:

I know there is a lot of criticism for this show and its use of "torture porn" when it comes to the Handmaids but I never, ever, wanted it more than when June is just watching and not participating in the ritual birth, talking back to the Aunts and commanders, and basically flouting all the past established laws of Gilead.   To be clear, I don't want to watch anyone be brutally punished and I fast forwarded a lot of that in the past seasons but nothing is making sense anymore.  I've been more open to this season than a lot of you and did a lot of mental fanwanking to make the plot work but this episode turned me over to the hate-watching camp (although I reserve my right to change sides if the final episodes right the tide because much like Janine I will try and find some good in this season even when it punches me in the face)

The one thing I did like about this episode was the scene with the Aunts choosing the Handmaids.  I liked it for the fact that is showed the whole bureaucratic, mundane-ness of Gilead.   They are literally choosing the fate of these women while chit-chatting and gossiping.  That gave me goosebumps because that is how evil is spread.  By ordinary people just doing their job and not questioning the reason behind the job.  Show us more of that, writers! Gilead became Gilead based on the back of normal people.  How did they get that way?  When did seeing Handmaids become the norm?  

I loved the Aunts scene, I'd like much more as far as "behind the curtain" of Gilead.  We are like Switzerland, it's a black box of a power structure, which is one more reason season 3 showed signs of hope/progress, we are starting to see that.  DC, the Aunts, and maybe with Nick in Chicago....

I THINK what they are showing is June at her absolute limit.  With Hannah truly gone now?  She doesn't care if they kill her, she is not playing their games anymore, or rather, she's playing them, but not the way TPTB expect.  She's ready to tear it all down, and die in the process, she's pushing every limit, she's (as she actually spelled out) now completely understanding the suicide bombing handmaid, and Emily stabbing Lydia (though they should have used Emily stealing that car.)

She's not alone, she's not an expert, she has will and anger.  Death no longer affects her, 4 hangings this week, walking by dead bodies every single day for the last 4-5 years?  She's immune to those horrors now, and she's filled with hate.  No fucks left to give June is like any true revolutionary or freedom fighter, and that COULD become very interesting.

At least she's no longer the same old June.  Progress.

2 hours ago, rubinia said:

Agree! That part was legit interesting. And the Aunts enjoying some sherry even though it's outlawed (they're hypocrites as much as anyone else).

That was interesting.  Apparently Commanders, Jezebels, and Aunts can drink.  Handmaids too if the Commander gives them one (which we've seen with June and with Emily.)  Wives are the ones shut out.  Ha.

2 hours ago, Trillian said:

But how can that be, when she said specifically that she was godmother to her sister’s son?  Unless they now baptize the kid or something, the godmother comment doesn’t fit.

Joining  the conga line here.  I swore, when I tuned in this week, that I was going to watch with an open mind and try to like it.  When June sassed off to Aunt Lydia without even a slap, I just lost that happy thought and it kept getting worse.  You know what, Lydia?  If June really is the only person in Gilead who is completely untouchable (and seriously, WTF?), make her watch while you beat the shit out of someone else in her place.  Maybe poor Janine.  That would alienate her from all the other Handmaids, even if it doesn’t teach her that there are consequences to her foolhardy actions.  Geez, even Tony Soprano had a conscience.  June has become the most unlikeable protagonist ever. The only thing that can redeem this show for me now is that if they kill her off and that they won’t do.

Yeah, it was Lydia's nephew that died. 

Maybe the writers looked at what would push Lydia into her radical religious fanatic self, and this story made more sense, and was more visual that the death of the nephew?  Or maybe it's still coming.

2 hours ago, goldilocks said:

Is drinking forbidden for everyone? I missed that. I thought I saw people having drinks, the wives and commanders maybe. No?

Did the wives drink at that party in DC?  I can't remember.  However, DC obviously has one set of rules for them, and a different set for the rest of the Districts.

Did the wives drink at the Mexican party?

[charmed1]

I’m curious where the principal is in real-time now. Is he in Gilead or did he escape to Canada? If he’s in Gilead, what does he do? What does an elementary school principal’s job pre-Gilead translate into in Gilead? Van driver? Groundskeeper? Or maybe Lydia got him sent to the wall for filthy gender treason.

[Umbelina]

The Inside the Episode is up.  The nice thing about this one is that it's mostly actors talking, less of the idiot showrunner.

Dowd does say that "once she shuts that door, she stays on that path" but then adds that the memory of what could have been is always there for her, always, and it's a painful one."

Whitford says everyone is in survival mode and they become difficult to read.  June's trying to find whatever moral kindling Lawrence has left, and to make a fire out of it..

Moss, says June is becoming morally unrecognizable, it's a sign of what that system can turn someone into.  The writer says it's creepy to see June enjoying violence and murder now.  (Basically June HAS fully crossed over to the dark side now, and her goal was punishing OfMathew for that Martha's death and her loss of Hannah, she WANTED revenge.)

If they are making June a full out villain, I have a problem with that, if they are showing a woman who can take no more, and has been changed into a ruthless person?  I'm OK with that, and it could be very good.  It also kind of fits with the book, or could.

June

Spoiler

disappears and the only thing left is her tapes.  Maybe she does things (murders, etc.) because she's now past her limit of human endurance, and therefore, even after Gilead falls?  She stays in hiding?  Maybe that's why there is no record of her?

[Astrid Kaysen]

Wow, everyone's really pissed off. First, the stuff with Lydia. I was really hoping for a bad childhood backstory on her which we waited 3 seasons to see and, hopefully, would justify her insanity. So far, it hasn't. Maybe she just went nuts (I mean, unless there's more to it that they plan on showing us).

The stuff with June's change in behavior, this is an issue that HAS to be addressed. The Walking Dead gets into it more but they have to address this. When a person's life becomes nothing but oppression and constant torture, it can distort one's personality. I don't expect June to be heroic and doing the right thing all of the time. Nobody can do that. She's fed up with all the "orderliness" of Gilead's elite that comes off the backs of the oppressed. She's passed trying to reason with it and just wants chaos that will prove that what they are doing is wrong. I think they'll take her character to a dark place but bring her back again.

[ferjy]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

You think they arranged this circle? 

That’s your own thought, I said nothing of the kind. 

As for the rest of your post, we know all that and it has nothing to do with what I posted. I was just saying that usually they don’t want to have to say those things in the circle, this one time you could tell they were all into it, by June’s lead. Ofmatthew may have snitched, but June instigated the whole thing for her own benefit, not taking into consideration who would be hurt because of it. She’s reckless and selfish. 

[Umbelina]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

11 hours ago, ferjy said:

Yes but they were forced to do it. This time they all happily partook in it like spoiled adolescents, with the addition of ringleader June squealing on Ofmatthew of her own free will, smug face intact. I guess we were supposed to cheer for her (June).

25 minutes ago, ferjy said:

That’s your own thought, I said nothing of the kind. 

As for the rest of your post, we know all that and it has nothing to do with what I posted. I was just saying that usually they don’t want to have to say those things in the circle, this one time you could tell they were all into it, by June’s lead. Ofmatthew may have snitched, but June instigated the whole thing for her own benefit, not taking into consideration who would be hurt because of it. She’s reckless and selfish. 

Sorry if I misunderstood you.

My point was, they were forced to do it this time as well.

Enjoying tearing into a snitch?  To me?  Completely understandable, as is enjoying her removal from their lives, since she was perfectly capable of snitching on any and all of them, causing pain or death to even more people.

She was a danger to all of them, to every single one of them that wasn't as brainwashed as OfMathew.  There have been many scenes of quiet resistance with this group of handmaids.  One that springs to mind is them telling each other their real names.  OfMathew could have them all punished for that, and WOULD.  She needed to be shown she better keep her damn mouth shut.

Do I wish they would have gone into why and how OfMathew had completely bought into and supported the horrid regime of Gilead?  Sure.  Maybe they will...this show loves it's flashbacks.

Either way though, a danger was eliminated.  I'd smile too.

All of that said, I really do think, aside from the horrible stumbles of the previous two episodes?  We are seeing change here, and progress.  Even Lydia's backstory filled in a few things, though it was the typical "emmy reel" for a favored actress crap.

The positives of this ep and season?  It looks like we:

1.  Are FINALLY getting inside peeks at how Gilead works.  From the Aunt's deciding which housemaid goes where, to the DC episodes about the inevitable hypocrisy of the "1%"
2. NICK should finally show us more about the resistance fighters, and how the wars are going, and with fingers crossed, his EYE business, which is probably too little too late, but at least would again, shed some light into this system/world.
3. June is apparently going full on bad guy, if one can be "bad" after enduring what she's endured.  She, for the past few episodes, clearing has "no fucks left to give" and is angry as hell.  She HAS reached the suicide bomber stage, death no longer moves her, it's surrounded her for so long, she's now immune to those horrors.  They have been building to this, so credit to the writers there, and it culminated in June's glee at the mayhem caused by OfMathew, and by the take down of a snitch.  Removing Hannah as a motivator and distraction (God I hope she stays gone!) is a great move.  Hannah was June's only reason for towing any lines, she's long past caring about her own life. 

Those are all hopeful signs (to me.)

Now if they can just write decent and believable scenes about the resistance FROM our cast now in Canada?  I'd be thrilled.  I don't care about their feelings, I want to see them become believable, start social media campaigns, not just participate in pointless and useless demonstrations.  I want SPY GUY to interact with the refugees, and the US Embassy people to do the same.

WHY are they diddling around pressuring Canada and not seeking out their own people?  It's bizarre and unbelievable.  I think the answer is, these writers only want to show "emotion" and "great scenes for the cast" instead of thinking about what someone like those in Canada would really be doing.  Screaming from the rafters!  Raising hell!  Helping the resistance!  Demanding world intervention!  Telling their stories, and changing world opinion. 

They set this in current day, not in the book time!  That means the world is at their fingertips!  Skype!  Phones!  Youtube!  Interviews!  TV!  Instead we get dinner scenes, drinking scenes, and recovery scenes.  Not everyone who has been through hell sits around endlessly moping about it.  People DO something about it, and every one of the Canada cast is the type of person to get off their ass and do something.  (except perhaps Luke.)

Edited July 11, 2019 by Umbelina

[Umbelina]

4 hours ago, Trillian said:

“I was godmother to my sister’s child.  He died when he was four days old .... “.  It  stuck in my head because I remember thinking at the time that fundamentalists usually don’t baptize infants.  It’s usually more of a Catholic thing. The quotation is at 2:14:

I think they switched the story mostly because they already had a "dead baby" scene in this episode.  They weren't going to show two.

That said, I'm pretty sure I like this story better, but they COULD have had Aunt Lydia zoom into flashback when seeing the baby with the cord around it's neck.  So, it would have tied in.

I like the story they chose better though.

[IndyMischa]

4 hours ago, Joana said:

That's what I was thinking too. 

The other thing I was worried about was that Lydia will be aroused by Noelle when she was putting on her make-up and that it will turn out she's a repressed lesbian all along. Well, that's at least one tired ass cliche they spared us from. Always be grateful for the small things!

Blessed fucking be. (I had the same thought.)

I only made it ~halfway through this one. I will probably watch the rest, but can't swear to it. Aunt Lydia's much-anticipated backstory was a letdown. June continues to bitchfacecloseup her way through life. No Moira, no Nick, and no Waterfords. [TROMBONE]

I did enjoy the "ugh, paperwork, am I right ladies? have some sherry!" bit. So there's that, I guess.