S02.E06: The Bad Mother

[Johnny Dollar]

I got the “It was an owl” reference. RIP “Trial and Error”. 😥

The actress playing the judge also played the judge during Red’s bonkers death penalty trial on “The Blacklist”. Her specialty must be “Judge in Bat-Shit-Crazy and Implausible Courtroom Scenes”. 

Detective Francie must have the best agent. I don’t think she’s had more than two lines this season. All she’s had to do is lurk and suspiciously glare at everyone. 

[Blakeston]

13 hours ago, Slovenly Muse said:

When did Jane say this? I don't remember hearing it at all. Was it something she was incoherently yelling at Mary Louise? If so, I could see her saying it out of spite (since it's total fiction), like, "I tried to give your son the benefit of the doubt in case he was the good man you say, but he proved again and again that he was a monster, and you're wrong about him and about everything!"

Obviously not true, but intended to be hurtful. If this wasn't part of her rant, and was something she said calmly to a friend, I got nothing. In either case, I totally agree that it 100% sounds like a man wrote that line.

When Jane showed up at Mary Louise's apartment, Mary Louise mentioned that she knew Jane had a gun. Mary Louise accused Jane of coming to Monterey with the intention of murdering Perry. That's when Jane yelled the thing about how she'd hoped to find a good man who happened to have a bad night.

I don't think she ever realistically expected her rapist to turn out to be a good man. But I could see her genuinely hoping in season one that he'd turn out to have redeeming qualities. She was tormented by the idea that Ziggy would turn out like his father, and learning that his father wasn't completely evil would be a relief.

[sacrebleu]

Quote

I hate Mary Louise so much. Which is the intended reaction, so good job, show. In all seriousness this is my favourite Meryl Streep performance because it's understated and relentlessly unlikable -- something I don't think I've seen her do before.

I saw shades of her Oscar-winning performance in Kramer vs Kramer, when she played the mom that left Dustin Hoffman with the kid, then came back a year later to demand full custody. Man, I hated Meryl for a long time based on that performance. 

I totally call BS on no one even raising the question of Mary Louise being physically capable of raising active twin boys at her age. 

[Penman61]

1 hour ago, sacrebleu said:

I totally call BS on no one even raising the question of Mary Louise being physically capable of raising active twin boys at her age. 

God, yes! Obviously. I'm sure many here are parents; I'm not, but I've spent extended live-with time (weeks) with babies/children of all ages. I'm a good 10 years younger than ML, and if you told me I had to take permanent custody of  two 7/8-year-old twins...I'd pre-emptively die on the spot.

So, yeah, maybe the Judge should at least inquire about ML's physical fitness, support system, history, etc.*?...

*Including maybe that one time that one kid that she was raising DIED.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Penman61

[iMonrey]

Quote

I got the “It was an owl” reference. RIP “Trial and Error”. 😥

Don't know the original poster's intent but the Trial and Error gag was in itself a reference to The Staircase, an infamous murder case involving the death of Kathleen Peterson.

Quote

Ed looked so baffled, I almost expected him to break the fourth wall and stare right at the camera, Ben Wyatt style.

OMG I would "heart" this 50 times if I could. That would just about save this show. Come to think of it, that woman was about as subtle as Tammy 2!

[buttercupia]

21 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I tend to agree with you that she gave us the impression in season one that she was not considering the possibility that the man who raped her could have been a decent guy. 

just rewatching season 1 ahead of the finale. Jane and Maddie are in Tom's cafe, episode 6, and she pretty much says the exact same thing to Maddie. That she had hoped he was a good man who had a bad day.

[slowpoked]

13 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

For a nanny? That seems unusually generous to me.

Well, as we found out, she was more than just a nanny.

[Lemons]

4 hours ago, sacrebleu said:

I saw shades of her Oscar-winning performance in Kramer vs Kramer, when she played the mom that left Dustin Hoffman with the kid, then came back a year later to demand full custody. Man, I hated Meryl for a long time based on that performance. 

I totally call BS on no one even raising the question of Mary Louise being physically capable of raising active twin boys at her age. 

Grandmother's raise their grandchildren more than most people think.  In real life most mothers aren't as old as Nicole Kidman's character so grandmothers aren't always as old as 70.  

[peggy06]

I know the show is unrealistic, but it's so enjoyable and the cast are so watchable that I can let it slide. It's good solid Sunday night entertainment for me. I will be sorry to see it end. My main complaint is that the episodes aren't longer.

I think it kind of stands to reason that when they go off book, it's not going to be as tight of a story. The same thing happened to Game of Thrones well before the late lamented Season 8.

Regarding this episode, it is a definite that Juliette's "stress management" services were sleeping with Gordon. The severance of $72,000, as stated upthread, seems to be based on the length of time she was employed. The $160,000 was the payoff for the hanky-panky. Keeping that from Renata would be a major concern for Gordon, I would think, and worth a bundle. 

Renata in the car was gold. Love Laura Dern and love her character.

I'm impressed with Zoe Kravitz this season and this episode. I don't mind that her storyline has been muted; in fact, I like that they've emphasized the toll it took on her to have pushed a man to his death.  The slow burn and the way her backstory has been revealed, culminating in that scene with her mother, were excellently done.

I'm looking forward to next week. Yes, there's a lot to wrap up. I hope Maddie and Ed is not given much time; that storyline interests me least of all of them. Renata and Gordon should be wrapped up quickly too. How much is there to say? The focus will probably be on Celeste and Mary Louise in court. I'm eager to find out if they reveal ML's skeletons. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by peggy06
Grammar error

[LuvMyShows]

On 7/17/2019 at 8:02 AM, Johnny Dollar said:

The actress playing the judge also played the judge during Red’s bonkers death penalty trial on “The Blacklist”. Her specialty must be “Judge in Bat-Shit-Crazy and Implausible Courtroom Scenes”. 

Mad props to the agent for that actress, Becky Ann Baker, who was also on Younger last week, playing an older-woman author of erotic fiction.

[sasha206]

On 7/15/2019 at 10:38 AM, BigBlueMastiff said:

Uh, inviting strange men into your house when you have children, and passing out, not knowing what exposure the kids might have to these men is a huge problem. If what ML's attorney said was true, the kids talked to random strange men in their mother's bedroom, and the mother had know knowledge whatsoever. What if one of these men was a pedophile? Random sex is an issue when you expose your kids to it.

I totally agree.   I'm a widow and I would NEVER have a man in this house when my daughter is here.  My view is that your kids should not be subjected to your fuckmates, or even a relationship until it is truly something substantial.  How many times do we hear about kids being assaulted, sexually and/or physically, or even murdered by the boyfriend?  

That said, I was digging the first several episodes of season 2, but it's really becoming so unbelievably unrealistic.

Edited July 18, 2019 by sasha206

[zobot81]

All that remains that I want from the series is a red hot love scene between Ed and Madelyn.   I mean, like, I really want those two to go at it...HORD.

They are a couple of super sexy actors in their mid-life and I wanna see them tear each other's clothes off, goddammit, no shame.

Edited July 18, 2019 by zobot81

[LuvMyShows]

33 minutes ago, zobot81 said:

All that remains that I want from the series is a red hot love scene between Ed and Madelyn.   I mean, like, I really want those two to go at it...HORD.

They are a couple of super sexy actors in their mid-life and I wanna see them tear each other's clothes off, goddammit, no shame.

As portrayed, Madelyn is selfish AF and only cares about potentially losing the life she wants with a man who will always be there and who worships her.  She doesn't seem to be concerned with Ed's feelings, what led her to stray, what she actually needs to change, etc.  So if there was intense f*ing, I would want it to be the best f*ing she had ever received from Ed, and then he's like "See ya" and peaces out. 

[Razzberry]

I wanna see Ed motorboatin' Tori so he can go home and wave that magic wand calling it even.  Tit for tat.

[teddysmom]

3 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Mad props to the agent for that actress, Becky Ann Baker, who was also on Younger last week, playing an older-woman author of erotic fiction.

She was the Mom on Freaks & Geeks, Lena Dunham's mom on Girls, she's been in a lot of stuff. 

[zobot81]

3 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

As portrayed, Madelyn is selfish AF and only cares about potentially losing the life she wants with a man who will always be there and who worships her.  She doesn't seem to be concerned with Ed's feelings, what led her to stray, what she actually needs to change, etc.  So if there was intense f*ing, I would want it to be the best f*ing she had ever received from Ed, and then he's like "See ya" and peaces out. 

I feel like one of the things that's missing for Madelyn, when it comes to her relationship with Ed is -- and this is not an excuse to minimize her betrayal -- that she has yet to actively transform her feelings of trust, stability and safety into physical desire.  A lot of people with low self-worth have an unhealthy or dysfunctional sexuality, whether it's high-risk sexual behavior (a la Celeste's ambien-induced one night stands) or a total withdrawal from sexual activity (demonstrated in the Madelyn/Ed dynamic).  There are plenty of genuinely healthy, hyper-sexual or a-sexual people, but in Celeste and Madelyn's case, it seems clear that their sexual behavior comes from an insecure and out-or-control place.

We did not get nearly as much information about Madelyn's backstory as we got about Celeste's.  But I think we know enough about the former to assume that A) Madelyn had a childhood fraught by an ugly divorce, which included witnessing her father's infidelity at a very young age; B) she is extremely insecure about not having gone to college. 

Listen, I'm not here to validate the merits of those experiences -- we must assume that these events manifested as unprocessed trauma, since even she seemed totally baffled by her marital transgressions and self-sabotage.  Anyway, all I'm saying is that I believe she truly, truly loves Ed, but that she's likewise unable to fully experience his love for her.  She hasn't accepted that she's worthy of his love.  And like it or not, Ed worships her.  So, I guess I'm ruling in favor of them finding a way to move on with their marriage with greater appreciation and intimacy.

And hey, for better or worse, I still just wanna see two beautiful people get it on.

[ferjy]

On 7/17/2019 at 3:46 PM, Lemons said:

Grandmother's raise their grandchildren more than most people think.  In real life most mothers aren't as old as Nicole Kidman's character so grandmothers aren't always as old as 70.  

But Mary Louise is. I agree her age should be taken into consideration. 

[Lemons]

13 hours ago, ferjy said:

But Mary Louise is. I agree her age should be taken into consideration. 

She appears to be healthy.  She appears to have the money. We aren’t talking about newborns.  It’s really not all that unusual for grandparents to raise their grandchildren, even at 70.  Especially with the drug addiction that’s so prevalent right now. 

[jenn31]

50 minutes ago, Lemons said:

She appears to be healthy.  She appears to have the money. We aren’t talking about newborns.  It’s really not all that unusual for grandparents to raise their grandchildren, even at 70.  Especially with the drug addiction that’s so prevalent right now. 

Two rambunctious 9-year-old boys can be more work than a newborn. And Mary Louise is a widow so a single grandparent. It’s hard enough being a single mom in your younger years. At 70? They certainly would look at her age. 

[Llywela]

They would look at her age, but it wouldn't necessarily count against her. My parents are 71 and 68 and are raising a boisterous three-year-old grandchild - custody awarded to them, in spite of their age, by a family court. It happens.

[jenn31]

10 minutes ago, Llywela said:

They would look at her age, but it wouldn't necessarily count against her. My parents are 71 and 68 and are raising a boisterous three-year-old grandchild - custody awarded to them, in spite of their age, by a family court. It happens.

Certainly, it’s sometimes rewarded in the grandparents’ favor, depending on circumstances but they haven’t even addressed it in Mary Louise’s case. Also, the fact that there are two grandparents and only one grandchild in your parents situation makes a significant difference.

Edited July 19, 2019 by jenn31

[Lemons]

22 minutes ago, Llywela said:

They would look at her age, but it wouldn't necessarily count against her. My parents are 71 and 68 and are raising a boisterous three-year-old grandchild - custody awarded to them, in spite of their age, by a family court. It happens.

There are almost three million grandparents raising their grandchildren in the US.  And who knows how many more are informally raising them.  It’s not unusual at all.  

[jenn31]

2 hours ago, Lemons said:

There are almost three million grandparents raising their grandchildren in the US.  And who knows how many more are informally raising them.  It’s not unusual at all.  

That’s a pretty general statement. We’re talking about a 70-year-old widow who would be taking care of two 9-year-old rambunctious boys, one of which has obvious anger issues. You’re telling me a court wouldn’t wouldn’t look at her age in this particular situation? Highly unlikely. 

[Lemons]

3 hours ago, jenn31 said:

That’s a pretty general statement. We’re talking about a 70-year-old widow who would be taking care of two 9-year-old rambunctious boys, one of which has obvious anger issues. You’re telling me a court wouldn’t wouldn’t look at her age in this particular situation? Highly unlikely. 

I don't think her age would come up, no.  The anger issues are separate.  

 

3 hours ago, jenn31 said:

That’s a pretty general statement. We’re talking about a 70-year-old widow who would be taking care of two 9-year-old rambunctious boys, one of which has obvious anger issues. You’re telling me a court wouldn’t wouldn’t look at her age in this particular situation? Highly unlikely. 

These are the statistics of grandparents caring for grandchildren.  Plus this is a case where the mother isn't going anywhere.  I would imagine the custody would be temporary until she gets herself healthy...

Quote

 More than 2.5 million grandparents are the householders and are responsible for their grandchildren living with them. More than one-third have no parents of the children present in the home.  67% are under the age of 60.

These statistics show that more than 30% of grandparents who have custody are over the age of 60.  

[Umbelina]

9 year old boys in Monterey are in school for 7 hours a day, sleep 9-10 hours a night (*sometimes more) and are eating or dressing for at least another hour of the day.  She's have them while awake, otherwise unoccupied for about 5 or 6 hours a day, could easily also hire a nanny, since they have always had one.  Add in bath times and homework, she's got maybe 3-5 "empty" hours with them, except on weekends.

Less than that if she signs them up for a sport or two, or decides on music lessons, cub scouts.  It's not ideal, but it could certainly work, she doesn't seem feeble.  There are also movies, TV, video games, play dates, heck they are old enough to have chores now as well.

I don't think any of that will happen anyway, but if the courts really believe the kids are in danger?  It could.  (they won't.)  She lives on a freakin' beach, let them run around there while she reads a book.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Umbelina
clarity

[goldilocks]

27 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

She lives on a freakin' beach, let them run around there while she reads a book.

Were it that easy! Not to mention their teen years are coming up. I was a single mother of two from about the twins’ ages right through their teens. All ima gonna say is “Good luck, Mary Louise!” 

[love2lovebadtv]

 

 

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On 7/15/2019 at 12:31 AM, freebie said:

I did like the juxtaposition of Bonnie's conflict with her own "bad mother" with the more obvious focus on Celeste's actions. I'm still looking forward to next week when (I hope) Celeste reduces Mary Louise to ash with a merciless examination. 

I liked this, too. And I thought that Celeste wanting to put Mary Louise on the stand may be an extension of that "bad mother" title as well. 

[jenn31]

51 minutes ago, Lemons said:

These are the statistics of grandparents caring for grandchildren.  Plus this is a case where the mother isn't going anywhere.  I would imagine the custody would be temporary until she gets herself healthy...

These statistics show that more than 30% of grandparents who have custody are over the age of 60.  

Does it mention how many are single grandparents and how many grandchildren they are raising?

[ferjy]

21 minutes ago, goldilocks said:

Were it that easy! Not to mention their teen years are coming up. I was a single mother of two from about the twins’ ages right through their teens. All ima gonna say is “Good luck, Mary Louise!” 

lol My friend who is a single mom says she wouldn't wish it on her worst enemy. And she's in her 30's. Can't imagine single (grand)parenting in your 70's.

[love2lovebadtv]

2 minutes ago, ferjy said:

lol My friend who is a single mom says she wouldn't wish it on her worst enemy. And she's in her 30's. Can't imagine single (grand)parenting in your 70's.

Agree but it is completely different with the amount of household help Mary Louise would probably hire. 

[goldilocks]

10 hours ago, Umbelina said:

9 year old boys in Monterey are in school for 7 hours a day, sleep 9-10 hours a night (*sometimes more) and are eating or dressing for at least another hour of the day.  She's have them while awake, otherwise unoccupied for about 5 or 6 hours a day, could easily also hire a nanny, since they have always had one.  Add in bath times and homework, she's got maybe 3-5 "empty" hours with them, except on weekends.

Less than that if she signs them up for a sport or two, or decides on music lessons, cub scouts.  It's not ideal, but it could certainly work, she doesn't seem feeble.  There are also movies, TV, video games, play dates, heck they are old enough to have chores now as well.

I have to dispute your rundown which you make sound so easy. It may look that way on paper, but much different in reality. You'd be at the school some of that time being called in whenever they get into trouble, as well as for parent activities. When they're eating and dressing, as well as during bath and homework time, you're there helping, not sitting with your feet up. And when they're sleeping, you'd better believe you'd be sleeping too, so no quality alone time for yourself. You have to take them to the sporting events and lessons and often bring the refreshments which you have to prepare beforehand and often partake in the events. Unless she has the money and is planning to have a nanny with them all the time, Mary Louise is going to suffer a heart attack or stroke before she knows it!

Edited July 20, 2019 by goldilocks

[Maysie]

Bonnie's bedside confession to her mother was disappointing to me. For one thing, it felt like that was the sole reason they even introduced the character - the Freudian plotpoint that Bonnie was killing her own mother instead of Perry. It certainly gave Bonnie a storyline of some sort that I guess she otherwise wouldn't have had (she always seemed more of a peripheral character, like Renata, in Season 1; to me, Celeste, Madeline and Jane were the anchors of that season).

The other thing that bothered me about Bonnie's confession is that it affected how I viewed the ending of the first season. When I watched the end of season 1, I saw a woman who was basically ostracized by the other women intercede and "save" another woman at risk. And the final shots of them all on the beach together worked because it seemed like they bonded over their shared experience as women having each others' backs, despite all of the bs that led up to that moment.

I don't know why, but after hearing Bonnie's confession, it seems to take that power away. I'm left wondering if Bonnie hadn't had her own abusive relationship with her mother would she have pushed Perry down the steps? What would she have done? Would she have done anything? I just feel like Bonnie's mom was added to give a meatier storyline to Bonnie's character and I don't think that was necessary. If they wanted to have something for Bonnie to do, I think that the struggle of living with the knowledge that she's the one that gave the fatal push would have been more interesting. We see the women separating now as they try to navigate their own issues, combined with the trauma of the event; I don't think Bonnie's mother added anything to the story (though I have to say I was happy to see Olivia from All My Children many years ago show up on HBO.)

I've got similar problems with the judge and the whole custody hearing that have already been expressed. The only thing I'll add is that I was a bit surprised when the judge said she read the psychologist's report and referred to it as "a wash." Really? What does that mean?

I can't get behind Corey because I still see him as Ben (I think?) from Big Love. I thought Ben was a creep and it's oozing onto Corey, which isn't fair, I know, but there it is.

I'm disappointed in the season. I don't know what I expected and when it was announced there would be a season two I tried to stay away because I felt the first season was very well done and told the story well - didn't understand how it could be improved. I probably should have stayed with my first instinct, but I was sucked in. I'll watch the finale but I won't miss the show when it's gone.

[Lemons]

4 hours ago, jenn31 said:

Does it mention how many are single grandparents and how many grandchildren they are raising?

Typically it’s grandmothers. I’m not sure why you think it’s so unusual.  The retirement age has been raised to 67 years old and many people work well past that.   The president is over 70.  Half of our representatives are over the age of 70.  You must have a skewed perception of what a healthy 70 year old is capable of. 

 

8 hours ago, jenn31 said:

Two rambunctious 9-year-old boys can be more work than a newborn. And Mary Louise is a widow so a single grandparent. It’s hard enough being a single mom in your younger years. At 70? They certainly would look at her age. 

I never understood when young parents complain about being tired all the time.  I was never tired when the kids were younger.  Even now as teens.  

Mary Louise obviously has money since she got that high end apartment so she could hire help.  The character didn’t seem the type to want help but that’s a simple solution.  What’s her name’s nanny is available!

[steph369]

6 hours ago, Lemons said:

I never understood when young parents complain about being tired all the time.  I was never tired when the kids were younger.  Even now as teens.  

Mary Louise obviously has money since she got that high end apartment so she could hire help.  The character didn’t seem the type to want help but that’s a simple solution.  What’s her name’s nanny is available!

You must be superwoman if you never got tired. I for one wouldn’t want to raise young children again. Doesn’t Mary Louise know that you’re supposed to take the grandkids for a day here and there, then happily wave goodbye when the parents pick the by-then-grouchy-kids at the end of the day? 😄 

[Penman61]

7 hours ago, steph369 said:

You must be superwoman if you never got tired. I for one wouldn’t want to raise young children again. Doesn’t Mary Louise know that you’re supposed to take the grandkids for a day here and there, then happily wave goodbye when the parents pick the by-then-grouchy-kids at the end of the day? 😄 

Let's also remember that if you're a child that Mary Louise is raising, your survival rate is 50%.

Just sayin...

[Mabinogia]

2 hours ago, Penman61 said:

Let's also remember that if you're a child that Mary Louise is raising, your survival rate is 50%.

That's why she needs twins. She's smart enough to know she needs a backup...just in case. 

[goldilocks]

18 hours ago, Lemons said:

Mary Louise obviously has money since she got that high end apartment

I wasn’t sure because she always looks so frumpy as if she can’t afford better. 

[Lemons]

3 hours ago, goldilocks said:

I wasn’t sure because she always looks so frumpy as if she can’t afford better. 

Frumpy but not cheap clothing. 

 

15 hours ago, steph369 said:

You must be superwoman if you never got tired. I for one wouldn’t want to raise young children again. Doesn’t Mary Louise know that you’re supposed to take the grandkids for a day here and there, then happily wave goodbye when the parents pick the by-then-grouchy-kids at the end of the day? 😄 

Unless the kids aren’t safe with their mother and then no.  It’s interesting because they did show Celeste engaging in risky behavior.  So the guardianship thing didn’t come out of thin air.  But they aren’t behaviors that can’t be changed. If this was real life CPS would be involved because a neglect claim would have been filed.  They would give Celeste instructions on how to get the help she needs. Guardianship would be the last option. 

[txhorns79]

On 7/19/2019 at 6:53 PM, jenn31 said:

You’re telling me a court wouldn’t wouldn’t look at her age in this particular situation? Highly unlikely. 

I think a court would look at her age.  I presume that was what some of the psych interviews would have covered.  They would have spoken to Mary Louise about her age, her level of activity and likely discussed how she planned to handle raising twins should she be granted custody. 

[Gem 10]

On 7/19/2019 at 9:43 PM, Maysie said:

Bonnie's bedside confession to her mother was disappointing to me. For one thing, it felt like that was the sole reason they even introduced the character - the Freudian plotpoint that Bonnie was killing her own mother instead of Perry. It certainly gave Bonnie a storyline of some sort that I guess she otherwise wouldn't have had (she always seemed more of a peripheral character, like Renata, in Season 1; to me, Celeste, Madeline and Jane were the anchors of that season).

The other thing that bothered me about Bonnie's confession is that it affected how I viewed the ending of the first season. When I watched the end of season 1, I saw a woman who was basically ostracized by the other women intercede and "save" another woman at risk. And the final shots of them all on the beach together worked because it seemed like they bonded over their shared experience as women having each others' backs, despite all of the bs that led up to that moment.

I don't know why, but after hearing Bonnie's confession, it seems to take that power away. I'm left wondering if Bonnie hadn't had her own abusive relationship with her mother would she have pushed Perry down the steps? What would she have done? Would she have done anything? I just feel like Bonnie's mom was added to give a meatier storyline to Bonnie's character and I don't think that was necessary. If they wanted to have something for Bonnie to do, I think that the struggle of living with the knowledge that she's the one that gave the fatal push would have been more interesting. We see the women separating now as they try to navigate their own issues, combined with the trauma of the event; I don't think Bonnie's mother added anything to the story (though I have to say I was happy to see Olivia from All My Children many years ago show up on HBO.)

I've got similar problems with the judge and the whole custody hearing that have already been expressed. The only thing I'll add is that I was a bit surprised when the judge said she read the psychologist's report and referred to it as "a wash." Really? What does that mean?

I can't get behind Corey because I still see him as Ben (I think?) from Big Love. I thought Ben was a creep and it's oozing onto Corey, which isn't fair, I know, but there it is.

I'm disappointed in the season. I don't know what I expected and when it was announced there would be a season two I tried to stay away because I felt the first season was very well done and told the story well - didn't understand how it could be improved. I probably should have stayed with my first instinct, but I was sucked in. I'll watch the finale but I won't miss the show when it's gone.

So, after all that, we got nothing.  Sorry, was watching wrong episode, duh!  Was watching last week’s.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Gem 10

[aemom]

On 7/14/2019 at 10:21 PM, juno said:

Why would the mother of a known rapist and abuser and criminal be given any time by anyone including the judge? Why wouldn't she be accused of being partially responsible for creating a monster? Wouldn't raising 2 more boys be considered a greater threat than a mother that is taking sleeping pills?

I'm not sure what context this is intended in.

If the context is that a lawyer would use that angle to try and win a case - that a mother is partially responsible for creating rapists, murders, serial killers, then fine.

If the context is that this is fact - well I really have a problem with society continuing to blame mothers for how people turn out.  Yes - sometimes bad parenting = bad people, but sometimes people are just bad seeds or suffer some sort of trauma that the parents have nothing to do with that turns the personalities of these people in a bad way.

[Crs97]

My go-to response when someone compliments my kids and tells me we are good parents is, “Sometimes they are great kids because of us, and sometimes they are great in spite of us.”  

[AG921]

On 7/16/2019 at 3:41 PM, hoodooznoodooz said:

I posted what Jane said. I transcribed it word for word, because it confused me, and I wanted the opinions of all of you. 

I did not rewatch the first season, but I tend to agree with you that she gave us the impression in season one that she was not considering the possibility that the man who raped her could have been a decent guy. 

On 7/17/2019 at 11:00 AM, Blakeston said:

When Jane showed up at Mary Louise's apartment, Mary Louise mentioned that she knew Jane had a gun. Mary Louise accused Jane of coming to Monterey with the intention of murdering Perry. That's when Jane yelled the thing about how she'd hoped to find a good man who happened to have a bad night.

I don't think she ever realistically expected her rapist to turn out to be a good man. But I could see her genuinely hoping in season one that he'd turn out to have redeeming qualities. She was tormented by the idea that Ziggy would turn out like his father, and learning that his father wasn't completely evil would be a relief.

I only quoted a few posts but this is for the overall conversation regarding what Jane yelled at ML. If I remember correctly, the thing about a "good guy having a bad night" was something that ML originally said to Jane when she was questioning Jane about the rape earlier in the season. The same conversation when ML was implying that maybe Jane mislead Perry and questioning if it was really rape. Essentially ML was claiming Perry was actually a wonderful guy that had only one bad night and now Jane was throwing that back at her. 

[tvfanatic13]

Late to the party. I have been practicing bankruptcy law for 30 years. Never ever ever would the trustee ask creditors questions about the debts owed to them at that meeting. Ever.  Annoyed the hell out of me. 

[wanderingstar]

I thought they were going to leave that Gordon-screwed-the-nanny-plot alone, but alas.

I love Celeste. She's a great character, and Nicole Kidman is great in the role.

ETA:

Quote

Adam Scott is so underrated on this show. He brings humor and hurt and sadness to his scenes and I really enjoy all of his and Reese's scenes together.

Ed and Madeline ended up being my favorite part of the show. Adam brings a lot to the role, and he and Reese have great chemistry.

ETA II:

I'm not surprised Ed fell for seeing Maddie in her wedding dress (listening to the song he chose for their wedding). He's obviously still in love with her. I'm guessing he wanted a reason (any reason) to get back together with her. And this is something Madeline clearly understood. Her dancing around in the wedding dress at the moment he walked into their bedroom - well, let's just say I don't think that was a coincidence.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Gillian Rosh

[Aqua]

On 7/17/2019 at 11:17 PM, peggy06 said:

Regarding this episode, it is a definite that Juliette's "stress management" services were sleeping with Gordon. The severance of $72,000, as stated upthread, seems to be based on the length of time she was employed. The $160,000 was the payoff for the hanky-panky. Keeping that from Renata would be a major concern for Gordon, I would think, and worth a bundle. 

 

Are we to believe Gordon deferred payment of this $160,000 til an undetermined date? Juliette comes across as well-spoken and cunning at the hearing. Hard to believe she'd be so naive as to put up with letting Gordon rack up such a huge debt. And $72,000 seems a highly excessive severance pay for a nanny, even for a wealthy family. 

Edited August 15, 2020 by ReviewX

[Aqua]

On 7/19/2019 at 9:08 PM, ferjy said:

lol My friend who is a single mom says she wouldn't wish it on her worst enemy. And she's in her 30's. Can't imagine single (grand)parenting in your 70's.

I spent a weekend with my sister babysitting her three grandchildren ages 5-8. Those 2 1/2 days produced a type of exhaustion unlike anything I'd ever experienced, and this was as an athletic person in my forties. I would think that a decision into a person's stamina to take on custody would be highly relevant no matter the age of the would-be caregiver.

[Aqua]

I thought this was a very choppy episode that didn't hang together all that well and I can't imagine how they're gong to tie up all these loose ends in the finale.

Did anyone catch the name of the song that was playing when Jane was driving over to Cory's? Sounded like Depeche Mode from the early nineties.

I'm a lawyer too and almost threw something at the TV when the lawyer brings out the diagram. Objection to relevance, lack of foundation, need an expert witness to authenticate and explain the diagram and no, the lawyer doesn't get to testify to what the diagram shows, that is what witnesses are for.

And what's this about the judge ready to rule before hearing both sides? Like Celeste's side is an afterthought and is only considered when she jumps up and says hey, what about me? And no, absolutely no, Celeste doesn't get to suddenly play lawyer in her own case. This is not a pro se criminal case. Her lawyer is the one calling the witnesses. She is not just a potted plant.

Mary Louise being shown tapes of the women's interviews at the police station? Nope, improper, would never would happen.

The strangle-with-the-pillow-not-really was very hackneyed and silly. It's treading in the area of crying wolf and I may never believe you again when you present a dramatic scene. Then the later thing with the journal was no great reveal and a letdown.

Ed and Tori scene, waste of space. I think I am the only person on this forum that finds the Ed and Madeline storyline completely boring and annoying. All their scenes seem like filler to me.

And while most people seemed to like the Renata in-the-car-with-Gordon scene, honestly her exasperation with him is getting a little old. Maybe some other emotion could be taken out of the toolbox. And no way she stuffs paper into his mouth while he's driving unless she fancies the idea of him losing control and driving over a cliff.

Much as I bitch about this show I am really going to miss it. What to watch when this is over?? Suggestion?

 

[HollyG]

7 hours ago, ReviewX said:

Did anyone catch the name of the song that was playing when Jane was driving over to Cory's? Sounded like Depeche Mode from the early nineties.

Much as I bitch about this show I am really going to miss it. What to watch when this is over?? Suggestion?

According to Tunefind and Shazam the song is Rippin' Kittin by Tenebrio. I tried to listen to it on youtube but there are many different mixes of this EDM song and I never found one that matched 100%. 

You might like The Morning Show, also with Reese Witherspoon. 

[lala2]

On 7/15/2019 at 5:55 PM, Lemons said:

What state doesn’t close family court?  

DC / Maryland

Custody cases are open to the public if ppl want to come and observe. 

 

ETA: Don't know why I just got notice of this message. LOL! 

Edited May 24, 2021 by lala2