S07.E24: Sean

[PradaKitty]

Sean couldn’t conceive of what type of future he wanted or how to get to that future. His family (mostly Mom) did that to him. 

He was always naked, which I find strange. He would put on clothes to go get weighed and then once back in his room would take them off. 

No way was this 37 year old man able to live on his own. I’m pretty sure he realized it too. He was never given the chance to grow up - he just gave up. 

In a shallower note, can you imagine what that apartment must have smelled like? Even Dr. Now said he stank. 

[ProTourist]

3 hours ago, the-grey-lady said:

I think these are really sad questions, and honestly, I think the answer really is that there wasn't anything more that could've been done for Sean. Yes, Dr. Now might have been able to get Sean into a psychiatric hold, but those are 48 hours, and then he would've been back on his own. And if APS had intervened, what options would've been available to them? They aren't prison wardens; they can't hold somebody indefinitely, and I think it's unreasonable to expect the authorities to imprison someone forever in order to keep them on a diet. Absolutely every option available to Sean required that eventually he take responsibility for his own life, and he simply was not capable of doing that, ever.

Well, I don't know what options are available for younger adults, but with older adults Adult Protective Services will do a lot, as I learned in the case of my aunt. Someone reported erratic behavior on her part to APS, who then sent someone to her apartment to interview her. Based on that interview, and that she had no family nearby to take care of her, there was a court hearing to make her a ward of the state. She had a guardian assigned to her, who took over all the business of her day-to-day life, including assigning a home health aid to her who came to her apartment every day to cook, clean, do laundry, and help her with personal care. Whenever she needed a hospitalization or rehab stay, he made sure she got it. It all worked out very well. Eventually when she was not well enough to remain at home, he got her placed into a good nursing facility where she lived out her final years, and he took care of breaking up her apartment and the disposition of her possessions, finding a home for her cat, etc.

I think if Sean had had a state-appointed guardian -- which I really think he needed between his horrendous addiction and incompetence to take care of himself -- he might have either received more and better home care, or else placement in some kind of facility or group home where he would have been able to live with some purpose and not destroy himself. If Dr. Now could report James King to APS (who did not intervene in his case) why not report Sean? I'm sure it would have been shown if he had.

Someone posted in one of the discussions here not too long ago, that if you want to kill an addict, give him a lot of money. That's just what was done to Sean, posthumously by his mother. I guess that was her way of getting him to follow along after her.

[LuvMyShows]

On 6/13/2019 at 1:53 PM, Mothra said:

I think maybe people who have never suffered from clinical depression--as opposed to being sad and upset for a reason, like the death of a loved one or loss of a job--have a hard time understanding how pervasive clinical--not situational, but clinical, with no readily definable (and fixable, or time-healing) "cause," is.  Serious depression affects every part of your life, not least your ability to think and function logically. 

True, and I've seen it up close and personal.  However, what is interesting in Sean's case, is that he was "talking the talk", and I've rarely seen seriously depressed people able to do that as 'well' as he did (even if it was BS).  Plus he took the initiative to seek out Dr. Now in the first place, and even come to (sporadic) follow-up appointments, and he always was able to do what was needed to eat, and eat, and eat.  I'm not saying he wasn't depressed, but I give a lot of weight (sorry, no better word I could think of!) to the addiction aspect, and all the other mundane lack of motivation/will power issues, and desire for the easy way, that so many people struggle with.  

[ProTourist]

11 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

Plus he took the initiative to seek out Dr. Now in the first place

I think that was his mother's doing, but I agree with the rest of what you are saying. But I do think he had serious mental health issues beyond addiction, be they clinical depression, autism, or other.

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, PradaKitty said:

No way was this 37 year old man able to live on his own.

Sean was 29.

[Natalie68]

5 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

The episode reiterated for me the value of family and friends.  

No one checked up on him.  He sat naked and unwashed in that mess for hours on end with nothing to occupy his mind but food and knitting . He didn’t even seem to watch tv or get involved in social media on his phone,

People drive me up the wall sometimes but we’re social animals.  Loneliness can be deadly. He had no one who cared so why should he?

What a tragedy 

No one should ever have to be that alone.  I didn't watch the 1st ep until last night and I am halfway through the follow up and it is so sad.  He just never had a look of engagement in his eyes.  His mother was terrible.  It certainly is a haunting episode.  I also found myself really wanting to see his finished knitting projects.  He needed a purpose and perhaps he could have used that talent to make blankets for hospitals or something.  He just had nothing but a bed and a mother who fed him to death.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, DC Gal in VA said:

Gee, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Heh heh, my rapidly greying brain cells remember him as having not only playing high school football but his comments about his dad's approval for doing so, although there may not be a reference to that on the internet. 

My fellow gasoline-soaked-drawers friend! You and I appear to be sufferers of the Mandela Effect because I, too, believed that I remembered Sean pictured in a football uniform and him talking about thinking that would win his dad's approval. So, I just went back and re-watched (for science!) the "Here's Where We Show the Old Photos" section of his first show and...there were no pictures of Sean in a football uniform like I had remembered. 

[JocelynCavanaugh]

5 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

My fellow gasoline-soaked-drawers friend! You and I appear to be sufferers of the Mandela Effect because I, too, believed that I remembered Sean pictured in a football uniform and him talking about thinking that would win his dad's approval. So, I just went back and re-watched (for science!) the "Here's Where We Show the Old Photos" section of his first show and...there were no pictures of Sean in a football uniform like I had remembered. 

Were you maybe thinking of James “L.B.” Bonner? He definitely played football and I think I remember him saying the thing about making his dad proud. Sadly, he has also since passed away. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

Were you maybe thinking of James “L.B.” Bonner? He definitely played football and I think I remember him saying the thing about making his dad proud. Sadly, he has also since passed away.

Had to be him! I'm going to go back and watch his "Ye Olde Photo" time section (it's the first 10 minutes of every show so it's not much of a time suck) and check. I mean, I can even see the picture in my mind. It's just somehow I always affixed it to Sean.

[JocelynCavanaugh]

3 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

Had to be him! I'm going to go back and watch his "Ye Olde Photo" time section (it's the first 10 minutes of every show so it's not much of a time suck) and check. I mean, I can even see the picture in my mind. It's just somehow I always affixed it to Sean.

Now I’m curious to see if that will be it! Sean and LB did have a slight resemblance, but I remember LB as one of the most motivated and easy to root for if anyone ever on the show. Hearing about his death actually made me really sad. 

EDIT: wording was not meant to imply that Sean’s death wasn’t sad!

Edited June 14, 2019 by JocelynCavanaugh

[AZChristian]

2 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

It varies from state to state - in some places you can.

Neither of those is a great choice. A cobb salad, which often has blue cheese, ham, turkey, a hard boiled egg and ranch dressing is about as bad as a cheeseburger in terms of calories and fat.

There really was nothing else Dr. Now could do. I completely agree that Sean was horribly depressed and that he was using food to kill himself... but legally and medically that doesn't mean a threat of imminent harm. Sean could have voluntarily signed himself into a psychiatric facility but I don't think that he would have wanted that given that he hated having his food controlled at the hospital and was always eager to get home. Sean could point blank tell a physician that he was going to go home and eat himself to death and that would not be sufficient to have him committed against his will. I've seen alcoholics in an ER hear from a physician that they must stop drinking immediately or it will kill them. They will tell the doctor they are going to go home and start drinking again, knowing it will kill them, and that's not sufficient to have them committed. 

I don't necessarily think that any of this is right - but that is the way it is. 

I was just doing the Cobb salad comparison for prices, quoting someone else.  You are correct that nutritionally, one Cobb salad compares closely to one cheeseburger.  But what we often see is NO salad of any type, and MULTIPLE burgers for each meal for our poundicipants.

According to Livestrong, "A traditional Cobb salad, with the dressing, contains about 623 calories and upwards of 43 grams of fat. You also get about 25 milligrams of vitamin C, about 57 grams of protein and 3.5 grams of fiber."

Compared to:

"A regular fast-food cheeseburger with a large patty, condiments and vegetables contains 480 calories, along with 24.1 grams of fat, and if you make it a double cheeseburger with regular-size patties, condiments and vegetables, you'll be consuming a whopping 650 calories, along with 35.3 grams of fat, or 54 percent of the daily value for fat." 

[ProTourist]

29 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

I was just doing the Cobb salad comparison for prices, quoting someone else.  You are correct that nutritionally, one Cobb salad compares closely to one cheeseburger.  But what we often see is NO salad of any type, and MULTIPLE burgers for each meal for our poundicipants.

According to Livestrong, "A traditional Cobb salad, with the dressing, contains about 623 calories and upwards of 43 grams of fat. You also get about 25 milligrams of vitamin C, about 57 grams of protein and 3.5 grams of fiber."

Compared to:

"A regular fast-food cheeseburger with a large patty, condiments and vegetables contains 480 calories, along with 24.1 grams of fat, and if you make it a double cheeseburger with regular-size patties, condiments and vegetables, you'll be consuming a whopping 650 calories, along with 35.3 grams of fat, or 54 percent of the daily value for fat." 

Yes, I posted the pricing of the Cobb salad (high price) vs. cheeseburger deluxe (low price). 😇 The good thing about the Cobb salad is that it is very low carb, especially if you choose a dressing like vinaigrette. The bad thing about the cheeseburger deluxe is that, between the bun and the side of french fries, it is very high carb. The Cobb can definitely fit into a low calorie low carb diet, especially if you eat two meals as day as I do.

But merits of the Cobb salad aside 😉 any other salad from the diner's menu that might be lower in fat and calories than the Cobb, is still several dollars more than the unhealthy cheeseburger deluxe (the deluxe includes french fries, lettuce, tomato, cole slaw, and pickle). I was just trying to illustrate that eating healthy does cost more if you have deliveries and do not cook yourself. But as someone pointed out, if you eat two or three cheeseburger deluxes, that will certainly cost more than the one salad. 😄

Edited June 14, 2019 by ProTourist

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

1 hour ago, Giant Misfit said:

Had to be him! I'm going to go back and watch his "Ye Olde Photo" time section (it's the first 10 minutes of every show so it's not much of a time suck) and check. I mean, I can even see the picture in my mind. It's just somehow I always affixed it to Sean.

Now I’m curious to see if that will be it! Sean and LB did have a slight resemblance, but I remember LB as one of the most motivated and easy to root for if anyone ever on the show. Hearing about his death actually made me really sad. 

You were correct! LB played football and was upset that when he quit he felt his father had nothing for which to be proud of him. And his pic was the one I had inadvertently attached to my memory of Sean's first episode. 

Poor LB. His end was every bit as tragic as Sean's. But at least LB had a family (however dysfunctional), a clean home, and a path forward. 

[DC Gal in VA]

1 hour ago, Giant Misfit said:

My fellow gasoline-soaked-drawers friend! You and I appear to be sufferers of the Mandela Effect because I, too, believed that I remembered Sean pictured in a football uniform and him talking about thinking that would win his dad's approval. So, I just went back and re-watched (for science!) the "Here's Where We Show the Old Photos" section of his first show and...there were no pictures of Sean in a football uniform like I had remembered. 

Hahaha, thanks GiantMisfit. I had never heard of the Mandela Effect. Goodness knows that you are the master of finding the best memes and gifs every week during the Live Chat! Where on Earth did you find "Here's Where We Show the Old Photos?" I actually contemplated watching the first part of his original episode again but hey I got a lot of crazy stuff going on in my life right now and took a pass on that.

[Twopper]

2 hours ago, ProTourist said:

I think if Sean had had a state-appointed guardian -- which I really think he needed between his horrendous addiction and incompetence to take care of himself -- he might have either received more and better home care, or else placement in some kind of facility or group home where he would have been able to live with some purpose and not destroy himself.

It is too bad there wasn't a guardian to keep him from spending nearly $9k on groceries in such a short time.  That's just amazing to me, and not at all in a good way.

The only other thing I think that might possibly have worked would have been a multi-pronged intervention immediately after  mom died.  Of course, my theory about this is in retrospect;  I doubt at the time anyone truly realized the extent of just how unwilling and incapable of self-care he was on his own.   He desperately needed

1.  a helper like Octavia had who would prepare his 1200 calorie a day meals and who would teach him how to select groceries and plan meals that he liked that were high-protein and low carb and also teach him to make meals

2. more visits from the dietician and nutritionists.  I think they came while mom was alive, but I am sure he thought meal prep was mom's territory and so he paid no attention at the time ( I think mom also ignored their advice)

3. a PCA like Steven had

4. visits from therapist(s) 3-5 times a week (both the PTs and a psychotherapist or psychiatrist)

5 a scale

Maybe  this approach would have kept him from regaining so much weight.  At under 500 pounds he was using a cab with assistance from the PCA.    He could have gone to a dentist, a pool, a gym, a doctor to see if there was someway to get him walking better, group therapy meetings, and/or church.   I think he --or his mom--had had church friends before they moved to Texas.  I think it was Pauline who had dental work and also worked out at a pool.

I think the care facility he had in mind was like Brookhaven or the place in Ohio that was also in a TLC program years ago.  He probably saw it as a long-term solution.   I think he would have done much better in a group home for people with emotional issues where he would have to take a certain amount of responsibility for himself.  And he would have to stay dressed!!

It is much more likely than not that this approach would have failed, but it might have extended his life a little.   He would need several skin surgeries and maybe surgery for the leg, and he would still be high risk.   It is very possible that despite his weight loss (even he got to his goal weight) that his heart and/or other internal organs were so irreversibly damaged that he would have still died in a few years.

[JocelynCavanaugh]

36 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

You were correct! LB played football and was upset that when he quit he felt his father had nothing for which to be proud of him. And his pic was the one I had inadvertently attached to my memory of Sean's first episode. 

Poor LB. His end was every bit as tragic as Sean's. But at least LB had a family (however dysfunctional), a clean home, and a path forward. 

Yay, teamwork!

I agree, LB’s story was tragic but Sean’s was just about as bleak as it gets. We’re due for a more lighthearted story!

[Friday]

4 hours ago, DC Gal in VA said:

Gee, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Heh heh, my rapidly greying brain cells remember him as having not only playing high school football but his comments about his dad's approval for doing so, although there may not be a reference to that on the internet. 

You are not alone in thinking this, DC GAL!  I thought he had played football too; only in my feeble memory I thought his mother had said it too, maybe in his second episode??? I was curious enough to rewatch most of the first episode and was shocked when he talked about the fall on the stairs and no mention of football.

[essexjan]

This was so sad. Sean is one of the very few poundicipants I've felt genuine compassion for. His upbringing set him on a course to an early grave, thanks to his mother. And without her he couldn't cope. I can't imagine how miserable his life was. Poor young man, he didn't stand a chance. He lacked the basic life skills that most of us take for granted, and his chronic depression crippled him emotionally.

I noticed in the scene when he was drinking the cola and eating sausage, and behind him, to his right (screen left) was a gallon jug almost filled with a yellow liquid. I don't think it was pineapple juice ...

[Drogo]

His caregiver looked like she'd been cryogenically frozen and they forgot to thaw her out.

[Twopper]

8 minutes ago, Drogo said:

His caregiver looked like she'd been cryogenically frozen and they forgot to thaw her out.

I think that was because he reeked, and she was trying not to smell him.

[DC Gal in VA]

36 minutes ago, Friday said:

You are not alone in thinking this, DC GAL!  I thought he had played football too; only in my feeble memory I thought his mother had said it too, maybe in his second episode??? I was curious enough to rewatch most of the first episode and was shocked when he talked about the fall on the stairs and no mention of football.

Hee Friday, my greying, tired brain cells are obviously greying at an exponential rate! Maybe I need to ask Dr. Now to get me into an assisted living facility, at least for a little while. ☺

Edited to add: Seriously, I really don't think that poor Sean understood that in those types of facilities one is usually given a small monetary allowance every month and not be allowed to use hundreds of dollars a week on delivery food.

If a person is receiving Social Security retirement or disability benefits for instance the vast majority of that monthly income will go to the facility. Also, you are only allowed to have a limited amount of personal assets so he would have had to spend that $9,000 he spent on food before entering the facility. Also, the food at those places is doled out in pretty small portions and generally sucks. So sad that at his young age living like that was his ultimate goal.

Edited June 14, 2019 by DC Gal in VA
Additional comments.

[Otter]

Sean's mother so reminded me of Billy Robbins' mother.  She lost one baby and kept Billy as an infant out of mental illness.  It was awful to watch.  I think Sean's mother kept him as an infant as revenge to her ex-husband/his dad.  Different motives for horribly abusing a child and clueless.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

He was always naked, which I find strange. He would put on clothes to go get weighed and then once back in his room would take them off. 

I wasn't sure what's up with that. I think that part of it was he was more comfortable naked. I also think that part of it was depression - I think he was just so depressed and so heavy that he did not have the energy to put clothes on.

[JDAlexander]

I'm not in agreement with demonizing Sean's mother.  Even Dr. Now said in the first episode that the mother/son relationship consisted of Sean manipulating his mother and his mother giving in.   His father is more deserving of scorn--he had "anger issues" and would scream and rage and back Sean into corners, threatening and terrorizing him.  Sean admitted using food for comfort as a child, weighing 150 pounds at age 9.  When his parents divorced when he was 10, the implication was that his father then became absent in Sean's life.  His mother admitted she worked full time and when he came home from school, he ate "anything and everything"  while she was gone.  Granted, she certainly should have intervened at some point, but not doing so doesn't make her evil and abusive.   He was 18 when he hurt his foot, I doubt his mother made him take off all of his clothes and get in bed, never to get out again.  More than likely, he saw this as a reason to hide and not return to school.  At 400 pounds, we all know he must have been fodder for the bullies in school.  And as a 26-year-old, we saw him give his mother a hard time when she attempted to get him to do the exercises the physical therapist recommended, and he demanded high-calorie food even after reaching over 1000 pounds! 

Sean was given access to a doctor, nutritionists, physical therapy, individual psychotherapy, and numerous hospitalizations.  He had ambulances and taxis available to transport him.  He could have attended Dr. Now's group therapy sessions and socialized there.   As for "year-long inpatient" psychiatric hospitalizations, those do not exist anymore.  A group home would require him to be somewhat ambulatory and he was too capable, even at his weight, for a nursing home.    Sean's obituary quoted a friend of his, who was also a neighbor, as saying he was a great guy and had a sense of humor once you got to know him.   As much as I feel pity for him and his life, the bottom line is, Sean was very much aware that his choices would kill him.  And yet, he continued full-speed ahead.  

[Concerned]

6 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

My fellow gasoline-soaked-drawers friend! You and I appear to be sufferers of the Mandela Effect because I, too, believed that I remembered Sean pictured in a football uniform and him talking about thinking that would win his dad's approval. So, I just went back and re-watched (for science!) the "Here's Where We Show the Old Photos" section of his first show and...there were no pictures of Sean in a football uniform like I had remembered. 

Well you obviously joined us from an alternate universe when they turned on the CERN reactor because in our universe Sean always played football and we saw pictures of him in his uniform.

[Elodea]

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

 I also found myself really wanting to see his finished knitting projects.  He needed a purpose and perhaps he could have used that talent to make blankets for hospitals or something.  He just had nothing but a bed and a mother who fed him to death.  

I tried to discern what he was crocheting during the episode and I also wondered what he did with the finished projects. I noticed three distinct projects they showed him working on; the first with pink (and blue and green, I think?) multicolored yarn, the second with the black and white yarn, and a third with the red/yellow/orange yarn.

The one with the black and white yarn seemed to be some kind of small ball/spherical object and the third project looked like it was a scarf. I also noticed some yarn scattered in his apartment.

It's too bad he couldn't have found some kind of crochet/knitting group to join (despite the challenge it might've been for him to actually go somewhere to participate in such a group, and his apartment being in a condition making it less than desirable for people in such a group to come to him) that would have provided at least some kind of social interaction for him, and/or found some way to crochet for charity as mentioned above. 

With other poundticipants, Dr. Now has mentioned the importance of having someone to support them with their weight loss, so it surprised me that there wasn't more of an effort to find someone to do that for Sean after his mother died.

Yes, Dr. Now arranged for the various psychologists/nutritionists/physical therapists/etc but there was no friend or family member or significant other in a role to support Sean with his weight loss. Obviously things could still go in the wrong direction if that person continues to enable the poundticipant, but Sean had no one and that definitely didn't help him. 

[ProTourist]

6 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

You were correct! LB played football and was upset that when he quit he felt his father had nothing for which to be proud of him. And his pic was the one I had inadvertently attached to my memory of Sean's first episode. 

Poor LB. His end was every bit as tragic as Sean's. But at least LB had a family (however dysfunctional), a clean home, and a path forward. 

Here are a couple of caps of LB Bonner high school football player. I think there is some resemblance with Sean:

[sidka]

When I was watching Sean throughout this episode I finally realized I was watching an individual akin to a heroine addict drowning in depression until death was inevitable. We see so little of the mental healthcare side of Dr. Now’s treatment program, and what we do see is in my opinion poor quality; I can only hope it is actually much more involved/inspired/structured than what we are shown. But my hopes are low. 

I got a bit frustrated with Dr. Now in this episode and his continued technique of badgering Sean. Sean might be too ill to know doing the same thing and expecting different results is insanity; Dr. Now has no excuse for continuing to indulge in it when it is clearly not effective. 

Sean was mentally handicapped. Maybe not in the classical sense, but he clearly could have at least benefited from occupational therapy along with physical therapy. Perhaps if he was placed into a halfway home in a community with oversight where he was held accountable and expected to demonstrate some growth he may have been able to keep his head above water. Maybe he would have felt less alone. Maybe he would have felt encouraged if those surrounding him were not there for him but were struggling with him. 

I appreciate all Dr. Now was able to do for Sean. I just painfully wish Sean’s behavioral treatment options had been further explored. I knew walking into this it was going to be a sad episode. I just didn’t realize how futile it would be in tone.

RIP Sean

[Carboncat]

9 hours ago, ProTourist said:

Well, I don't know what options are available for younger adults, but with older adults Adult Protective Services will do a lot, as I learned in the case of my aunt. Someone reported erratic behavior on her part to APS, who then sent someone to her apartment to interview her. Based on that interview, and that she had no family nearby to take care of her, there was a court hearing to make her a ward of the state. She had a guardian assigned to her, who took over all the business of her day-to-day life, including assigning a home health aid to her who came to her apartment every day to cook, clean, do laundry, and help her with personal care. Whenever she needed a hospitalization or rehab stay, he made sure she got it. It all worked out very well. Eventually when she was not well enough to remain at home, he got her placed into a good nursing facility where she lived out her final years, and he took care of breaking up her apartment and the disposition of her possessions, finding a home for her cat, etc.

I think if Sean had had a state-appointed guardian -- which I really think he needed between his horrendous addiction and incompetence to take care of himself -- he might have either received more and better home care, or else placement in some kind of facility or group home where he would have been able to live with some purpose and not destroy himself. If Dr. Now could report James King to APS (who did not intervene in his case) why not report Sean? I'm sure it would have been shown if he had.

Someone posted in one of the discussions here not too long ago, that if you want to kill an addict, give him a lot of money. That's just what was done to Sean, posthumously by his mother. I guess that was her way of getting him to follow along after her.

I thought I responded with an intelligent post only to find I fat-palmed something..... Still learning this laptop stuff.

I don't know if what I typed before will re appear but said before but Sean is a monotonous road to doom..  Yes his mom was a probable munchausen -mother-by-proxy but Sean was a grown man, offered phych  and medical services.  He balked at hospitalization:  hates the "controlled diet"  thinks that rehab care will offer pizza all day (?) has given up on life.  I never felt he wanted to live. He just wanted to go home where he could eat himself to death.  I mean, a gain of 188lbs in 2 months!  And he "can't afford healthy food"  when he inhaled $9000 of a $10,000 inheritance.  Oh, yeah, he lives in a "No-Salad Zone"...

So sorry for his death, such a useless life.  Maybe Dr. Now saw more "trying" like he stressed in his remembrance of Sean.  Sorry as I really am, I didn't see it.

Cats love cooler weather:  are snoozing right now in basket together.

[ELFairy]

7 hours ago, Otter said:

Sean's mother so reminded me of Billy Robbins' mother.  She lost one baby and kept Billy as an infant out of mental illness.  It was awful to watch.  I think Sean's mother kept him as an infant as revenge to her ex-husband/his dad.  Different motives for horribly abusing a child and clueless.

YES.  The situations are so similar.  Both guys had the same dependence on mom, the same sheltered worldview that left them with an inability to imagine independent life, same monotone, glum voice even.  

Neither guy really had a chance with moms like that.

[Ben.w]

                                             "I'm not eating any junk food"

Wow, Dr. Now really hit a wall with Sean. Honestly, by the end, even I was getting tired of their conversations because they were just getting repetitive. Dr. Now said, in the end, that Sean never gave up. But I think he did. I think that Sean was utterly lost without his mother around, and his father didn't want to have anything
to do with him, so he didn't know what to do, even when it was shown to him in black and white, and he just gave up. Everytime I looked at his face, not to mention that constantly naked body, that's what I saw, I saw a man who had given up on life. He was on autopilot, knew exactly what to say and what to do, but alone, the guy was a shell. Like many of you, I also think it was depression. I guess the tragic lesson out of this is; parents, if you love your children, teach them to be self-sufficient, teach them money-management (pissing away $9,000 in two months, bloody hell!) and the importance of hygiene and health, and to never give up, no matter how hard things get, so when you're gone, 
they don't end up like a Sean Milliken (I'm just making a point, not really directing this at any of you). As Dr. Now kept saying; Sean was a grown-ass man, so he should be able to take care of his grown-ass self (I'm paraphrasing, lol). 

Dr. Now really went above and beyond with Sean, really did, all those health facility stays must've equalled hundreds of thousands of dollars, all wasted.  

Edited June 15, 2019 by Ben.w

[cynicat]

9 hours ago, JDAlexander said:

Sean was given access to a doctor, nutritionists, physical therapy, individual psychotherapy, and numerous hospitalizations.  He had ambulances and taxis available to transport him.  He could have attended Dr. Now's group therapy sessions and socialized there.   As for "year-long inpatient" psychiatric hospitalizations, those do not exist anymore.  A group home would require him to be somewhat ambulatory and he was too capable, even at his weight, for a nursing home.    Sean's obituary quoted a friend of his, who was also a neighbor, as saying he was a great guy and had a sense of humor once you got to know him.   As much as I feel pity for him and his life, the bottom line is, Sean was very much aware that his choices would kill him.  And yet, he continued full-speed ahead.  

I totally agree.  Sean may have seemed a little slow but he was not stupid and was capable understanding his situation.  As an adult, he had the right to make his own decisions about his life.  They couldn't force him to accept all the help that JDAlexander lists above, even if it was killing him.  Sean knew exactly what he was doing and all the social agencies in the world couldn't have  (legally) stopped him.  I feel bad for him, but it was his choice.  

[JJ1]

9 hours ago, Carboncat said:

  I never felt he wanted to live.

Very sad, but very true. 

[Mothra]

19 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

True, and I've seen it up close and personal.  However, what is interesting in Sean's case, is that he was "talking the talk", and I've rarely seen seriously depressed people able to do that as 'well' as he did (even if it was BS).  Plus he took the initiative to seek out Dr. Now in the first place, and even come to (sporadic) follow-up appointments, and he always was able to do what was needed to eat, and eat, and eat.  I'm not saying he wasn't depressed, but I give a lot of weight (sorry, no better word I could think of!) to the addiction aspect, and all the other mundane lack of motivation/will power issues, and desire for the easy way, that so many people struggle with.  

I don't disagree with anything you say (although I'm not sure he's the one who got in touch with Dr. Now; he weighed around 1000 lbs, and I suspect the show contacted him), but everything you mention, and especially the "eat and eat and eat" part still fits with a severe underlying depression.  For too long, weight loss has been the only weight issue mentioned in depression checklists, and in my experience (my own and observations) a depressed person can go either way.

[AVM]

https://www.distractify.com/p/my-600-lb-life-deaths  Remembering the 'My 600-Lb Life' Cast Members Who Have Sadly Passed Away

[silverspoons]

Can someone explain the lack of wanting to wear clothes or the lack of awareness that clothes are necessary? It has to be 2 fold? He lack certain social awareness and his mom did not teach him clothes are not a choice, you have to wear clothes. Obviously he was used to just being naked at home. How did his mom not insist he wear clothes, this is just odd to me. Sure she could overfeed him, sure she could tell him what to watch on TV, but clothes, that is pretty basic part of life. I got some pretty bad neuropathy after injury and surgery and that area is painful when certain fabrics touch it, but I searched and found some materials  not perfect but tolerable to wear because I sure not going to go shirtless! 

For the huge amount spent on the care center rehab places for Sean, they should have a someone living with him in his house, day after day teaching him how to cook, wear clothes and clean him and his place. It would have been cheaper and maybe more beneficial? Of course I agree he needed a long term group type home but sadly those just are so hard to find. programs vary so much from state to state, it is unfair but reality. I watched that born this way show, those young people had so many options and parents had lives, but that is CA. I live in Utah and had a family in my neighborhood with a child with down syndrome that was over 50 years old. They got no help for her, this couple had never been on a date night in over 50 years, they cared for that child every day, no programs, no centers, no group homes. So sad the unequal help by states. 

[Elizzikra]

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Dr. Now has no excuse for continuing to indulge in it when it is clearly not effective. 

I'm not sure what else he was supposed to do.

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they should have a someone living with him in his house, day after day teaching him how to cook, wear clothes and clean him and his place. 

He knew how to get dressed - he just chose not to. It does occur to me, though, that he could not do laundry for himself and I don't know that his PCA did it for him. I don't know how much he knew about cooking but he could make a sandwich and microwave a meal - we saw him do both. 

Sean was not mentally challenged - I think he had a low-average to average IQ. I think he had severe depression and I wonder if he had ever been on medication (I can't imagine being a psychiatrist trying to calculate an effective dose on a person of his size and with such rapidly changing weight). But he was an adult and legally competent to make decisions for himself, no matter how bad those decisions were. Even if there were such a thing as group homes for adults who never really learned to adult on their own, or don't care to do so (not to mention funding to pay for them) Sean would have had to agree to go to them. I think he wanted someone to wait on him - clean him and clean up after him, and serve his food. And honestly - who wouldn't want a live in housekeeper and personal butler? But I don't think that Sean really wanted help and I don't think that he wanted to do things for himself. I don't mean that as a character flaw necessarily - that could have been symptomatic of his depression too.  But bottom line - any place that was going to restrict his food was not a place he would agree to live - we saw as much in the hospital. And without forcibly restricting his food intake, nothing else was going to make the slightest bit of difference for Sean.

[lu1535]

A round of applause and the "coveted Masterchef trophy" ------ (oops wrong show) goes to Dr. Now for having the humanity, tolerance and stomach for trying to help smelly people-----for I would run the other way.

[libgirl2]

On 6/14/2019 at 6:57 PM, Otter said:

Sean's mother so reminded me of Billy Robbins' mother.  She lost one baby and kept Billy as an infant out of mental illness.  It was awful to watch.  I think Sean's mother kept him as an infant as revenge to her ex-husband/his dad.  Different motives for horribly abusing a child and clueless.

I remember him. She was just the same. He did lose weight but how he is now I don't know.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I think Sean's mother treated him the same way his entire life, and I'm betting that's why the divorce happened too.     For whatever reason, she wanted him to be a big baby his entire life, and the leg injury, and the way she isolated him, kept him trapped.    He never knew another way to live.   

[gigiann]

He spent about $9,000 for food......and he gained 188 lbs.  So he paid $48 per pound he gained.

[pdlinda]

14 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Even if there were such a thing as group homes for adults who never really learned to adult on their own, or don't care to do so (not to mention funding to pay for them) Sean would have had to agree to go to them. I think he wanted someone to wait on him - clean him and clean up after him, and serve his food. And honestly - who wouldn't want a live in housekeeper and personal butler? But I don't think that Sean really wanted help and I don't think that he wanted to do things for himself. I don't mean that as a character flaw necessarily - that could have been symptomatic of his depression too.  But bottom line - any place that was going to restrict his food was not a place he would agree to live - we saw as much in the hospital. And without forcibly restricting his food intake, nothing else was going to make the slightest bit of difference for Sean.

This entire saga with Sean and how much time, effort and resources the show put into filming his years of deterioration leading to his death is an object lesson in exactly what you stated.

There are people who can benefit from addiction treatment and there are those who cannot.  I worked for YEARS with criminal defendants (over 90% of whom suffered from co-occurring disorders--substance abuse AND mental illness).  The drugs they used were illegal so they wound up charged with crimes.  I studied and applied so much research in the field (my graduate work included) and had innumerable resources that the courts permitted me to use to try and reduce recidivism.  

In the end, I would say the stat of 5% success that Dr. Now uses for the food addicts (and mental health sufferers) also applied to the probably thousands of clients I worked with over many years. 

There were those who were simply too damaged by circumstances, like their first five years of life (that they HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH CREATING) to muster up the energy needed to learn discipline, guidelines, routines and healthy ways of coping with life that would have allowed them to make the positive changes they would have needed to live functional, productive lives.

There ARE those who can overcome a treacherous childhood, absolutely!! However, for the majority this early emotional, physical, spiritual and intellectual deprivation is too much to overcome and they spend a lifetime of self-destruction.

At least Sean was spared the ultimate deprivation of being incarcerated in a jail facility.  I am thankful for that small favor.

[Lillith]

Sean had the oddest affect and was just dead behind the eyes. He was gone long before he died physically. It was so sad, he had little in the way of social skills, no interests except crocheting. Even if he doesn't have a TV, he could read, draw, listen to music, something. He had no clue what to do (thanks mom), how to care for himself and no one who was there for him as support to make all the more disheartening. I hope he was at peace now. 

[Twopper]

On 6/14/2019 at 6:57 PM, Otter said:

Sean's mother so reminded me of Billy Robbins' mother. 

The other mother she reminds me of is Jeanne's mother, but in a slightly different way.  I do think Jeanne's mom was a big enabler, but I wonder how much influence Jeanne's dad had on the enabling since Jeanne forgave him and invited him back.  If he wanted to stay, I am sure he had to give in to Jeanne's food demands and probably influenced the mother to do the same.  I do believe if dad had refused Jeanne her oranges, she would have un-forgiven him and banished him from the house.  Jeanne's mom also  reminds me of Sean's mother as she is overweight and in bad health.   If Jeanne gains only a pound a week, in 5-6 years she will be close to 900 pounds, and her mom will be unable to care for her.   They both need to turn their lives around asap.

[ProTourist]

I'm feeling that it's about time to let go of Sean and let him rest in peace. The one item that still nags at me is why Dr. Now would keep sending him back home, when Sean was candid with him that he had no impulse control with food; and it was obvious that his depression kept him from bathing, dressing, and exercising. When you send someone home alone with addiction and depression, how can you reasonably expect improvement? I don't think you can. With all the help and tools that Dr. Now gave him, there was nothing to help with the depression, addiction, and loneliness.

Yes, Sean couldn't stay in hospital or rehab facility long-term, but sending someone like him back to his apartment really was a death sentence. It's hard to believe there was nothing in between rehab and his apartment, no other option at all. <sigh>

[Elizzikra]

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why Dr. Now would keep sending him back home, when Sean was candid with him that he had no impulse control with food; and it was obvious that his depression kept him from bathing, dressing, and exercising... It's hard to believe there was nothing in between rehab and his apartment, no other option at all. <sigh>

There isn't, that I've ever heard of, for eating/food addiction. There are sober living houses for other types of addicts but I'm not sure insurance covers them and they definitely add up. I really don't think other options existed for Sean. You just can't force someone to make healthy changes in his life if he doesn't have at least a little internal capacity to do so...

[CatherineM]

We take in or mentor like parents kids with fetal alcohol who’ve aged out of foster care without being adopted. We try to get them ready to adult. Some will never be capable of that. There are a couple that are now in group homes. One is almost 20, and he has no off button for food. They have the kitchen locked up, and he is closely monitored. A social worker exercises with him every day. When he comes over twice a week to visit, he is allowed one sugar free pop and no food. For parties or Christmas, it’s a bit looser. 

He gets these supports because he’s developmentally disabled and has the mental capacity of an 8ish year old. Video games and superheroes are his life, and I suppose always will be. I suppose that Sean would have needed something similar, but he was too high functioning. 

[Elizzikra]

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He gets these supports because he’s developmentally disabled and has the mental capacity of an 8ish year old. Video games and superheroes are his life, and I suppose always will be. I suppose that Sean would have needed something similar, but he was too high functioning. 

He really did fall through the cracks of the system - a life threatening addiction but to food, not another substance; not really equipped with life skills but not developmentally delayed or severely mentally ill (or at least, not diagnosed as such). 

[Kaia40]

On 6/13/2019 at 2:54 PM, Kid said:

Which is EXACTLY what he had with his mother!!

You’re 100% right!!! Do you remember his first episode when his mother brought him to the hospital to see Dr. Now for the first time?  He was sitting in a wheelchair and put his hand down the back of his pants. Then he said to his Mother “Uh oh, I had an accident.” 🤢🤢🤢. It was wrong on so many levels! 

[CrazyInAlabama]

I don't think a sober living type house would have worked for Sean at all.    People live there, and follow the rules, or they get kicked out.     It's not a supervised, parent substitute like a group home is, and I doubt he was low functioning enough to stay at a group home.    Plus, group homes are hard to get into for people who actually qualify, not just someone who had a mother that kept him an infant.     

Edited June 19, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama