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dcalley

S01.E23 Irish Goodbye

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Series Finale

Tue, May 21 at 8:30 PM on ABC

Peggy struggles with Lawrence's decision to move out of the house; Timmy can't find his ventriloquist dummy, Knuckles, and learns that Joey took him without asking.

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18 hours ago, dcalley said:
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Series Finale

winnie the pooh disney GIF
 

I really thought this show had a chance. Another stupid network decision.

*I have no idea what happened with that first post I tried. 

Edited by lb60
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On 5/18/2019 at 2:07 AM, biakbiak said:

Appropriate title.

Except we know it's leaving.

I wonder when they gave it the title, and if they were thinking they wouldn't know if the show had been renewed or not when it aired.

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I don't think they always give shows a chance to grow and become "better" and gain a bigger audience.  Right away something is yanked.  I liked this episode a lot.  Fiona, who was Cassidy on the Middle, must have been made up to look older, she is only 29 but looked much older.  Guess they were trying to make her look 40.

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I almost couldn’t watch knowing it was the last episode. They really pulled a”Freaks and Geeks” on this & by the time they realize how good this was all the actors will be on to something else. So sad.

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Peggy lets Lawrence go, and Timmy lets Knuckles go. It was hard to watch this knowing it was the last one.

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14 minutes ago, dcalley said:

Peggy lets Lawrence go, and Timmy lets Knuckles go. It was hard to watch this knowing it was the last one.

I know, even Mrs. Readster said: "They saved FOTB and 1 more season of Modern Family and cancelled this?" At least Splitting Up Together is gone. 

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That was a terrific episode.  I got teary at the end.  So funny and warm.  Once again, we get insight into Peggy's character.  She's snark with a heart of gold.  Loved the boys.  Loved that Mike said something about tartar sauce and blew their cover just when Frank flipped the fuse.  Loved Timmy at the end telling Knuckles to fly high.  

We need a miracle to get a second season.  I wonder if there's a Patron Saint of television shows... 😉 

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I was really hoping for a voice over letting us know what happened to all the brothers. Something that could have been added when they knew the show was being cancelled. I would love to know about how the boys ended up in life.

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All the boys got some characteristic little moments in the finale, with the possible exception of William. Lawrence leaving came full circle from him coming home in the pilot. It was a nice finale, but I wish there were more!

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13 hours ago, LucyEth said:

Fiona, who was Cassidy on the Middle, must have been made up to look older, she is only 29 but looked much older.  Guess they were trying to make her look 40.

That's where I remembered her from!  She looked familiar, but I couldn't place her!

Watching this one was bittersweet.  Cleary's we hardly knew ye!

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13 hours ago, LucyEth said:

I liked this episode a lot.  Fiona, who was Cassidy on the Middle, must have been made up to look older, she is only 29 but looked much older.  Guess they were trying to make her look 40.

I don't know the actress but she looked nothing close to 43. Especially a 1972 43. They should have just made her 33 which would have still been 13 years older than Lawrence. Or hired an actress that actually was in her 40s.

I loved Joey making a deal to avoid hard time. At least William did get one good moment at the dinner table when he said uh oh when Lawrence was saying what did about Peggy. I cracked up at his face and the delivery. Love that little smart kid.

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10 hours ago, Phebemarie said:

We need a miracle to get a second season.  I wonder if there's a Patron Saint of television shows... 😉 

Oddly, Clare of Assisi. I just googled it. Who knew?! Now for some novenas, guys.

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15 hours ago, LucyEth said:

I don't think they always give shows a chance to grow and become "better" and gain a bigger audience.  Right away something is yanked.  I liked this episode a lot.  Fiona, who was Cassidy on the Middle, must have been made up to look older, she is only 29 but looked much older.  Guess they were trying to make her look 40.

Loved the finale. I was wondering how old Fiona really was and if she actually gave out her real age to the "Tatersons".  

I agree with posters above.  FOTB has gotten stale. This one should have been green lit to at least another season. 

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2 hours ago, greekmom said:

I was wondering how old Fiona really was and if she actually gave out her real age to the "Tatersons".  

Yes because it was the same age she gave to Lawerence when he asked her out.

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I laughed and I cried when I watched the show last night.  It just isn't fair they cancelled it.

I think Peggy was the one that made me laugh the most during the season.  

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55 minutes ago, biakbiak said:
3 hours ago, greekmom said:

I was wondering how old Fiona really was and if she actually gave out her real age to the "Tatersons".  

Yes because it was the same age she gave to Lawerence when he asked her out.

I'm not sure if you're saying "yes, that proves it's her real age" or "yes, that's her story and she's sticking with it".  My impression was the latter - that's what she tells people, for whatever reason - to get a reaction, shut them up...  I didn't think we were supposed to believe that was her real age, especially considering the actress is nowhere near that age.  YMMV

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1 minute ago, SoMuchTV said:

I'm not sure if you're saying "yes, that proves it's her real age" or "yes, that's her story and she's sticking with it".  My impression was the latter - that's what she tells people, for whatever reason - to get a reaction, shut them up...  I didn't think we were supposed to believe that was her real age, especially considering the actress is nowhere near that age.  YMMV

How she said it to Lawrence the latter would not make sense and it would only make sense if it was her real age. 

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3 hours ago, greekmom said:

Loved the finale. I was wondering how old Fiona really was and if she actually gave out her real age to the "Tatersons".  

I agree with posters above.  FOTB has gotten stale. This one should have been green lit to at least another season. 

Wasn't it the Tartarmans? 

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44 minutes ago, biakbiak said:
46 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

I'm not sure if you're saying "yes, that proves it's her real age" or "yes, that's her story and she's sticking with it".  My impression was the latter - that's what she tells people, for whatever reason - to get a reaction, shut them up...  I didn't think we were supposed to believe that was her real age, especially considering the actress is nowhere near that age.  YMMV

How she said it to Lawrence the latter would not make sense and it would only make sense if it was her real age. 

Funny - I had the complete opposite impression.  In the episode when she said it to Lawrence, I was completely convinced that it was just something she said to bar patrons who were hitting on her, to scare them off or maybe test their sincerity.  When she gave the same age to his parents, I started to doubt my initial perception, but then I decided that it was just her "fake age" that she used on a regular basis.  I guess we'll never find out for sure 😞

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If you don’t clue the audience in to a “fake age” bit than it’s shitty storytelling and I find it difficult to believe that’s what they are going for with her character particularly when they mention in repeatedly how much older she is than him. 

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5 hours ago, festivus said:

I loved Joey making a deal to avoid hard time. At least William did get one good moment at the dinner table when he said uh oh when Lawrence was saying what did about Peggy. I cracked up at his face and the delivery. Love that little smart kid.

William has been my favorite kid from almost the beginning. He was under used and it frustrated me - the writers were too good not to have been able to use the smart kid for more. I felt like Lawrence was often the same. The smartest kids didn’t get to do as much. I hope the actors goes on to do amazing things because they are fabulous. 

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I agree- the one thing that rang false about the finale was Fiona's age.  In the 70s, turning 30 was the equivalent of turning 60 today (that might be a slight exaggeration).  Lawrence would have caused a scandal both by dating an older woman, but also be moving in with her.  Having Fiona be in her 40s seemed unnecessary.  

If the goal was to to make Fiona and Peggy the same age, they should have gotten an older actress.  Fiona looked like she could be Wendi's older sister.  

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53 minutes ago, Phebemarie said:

I agree- the one thing that rang false about the finale was Fiona's age.  In the 70s, turning 30 was the equivalent of turning 60 today (that might be a slight exaggeration).  Lawrence would have caused a scandal both by dating an older woman, but also be moving in with her.  Having Fiona be in her 40s seemed unnecessary.  

I have no idea if this specific relationship is based on Tim’s own family but it’s so oddly specific I can see it being based on real life but regardless at no time in history has every situation/family response been treated the same way. My great aunt is 18 years older than her husband that she married in 1968 and the family didn’t have a problem with it. My aunt’s experience might not be the norm but that doesn’t mean it’s not true to her life. We didn’t see how Lawerence’s relationship was treated by people other than Joey who doesn’t strike me as someone who would care other than it being something to gain and Mike and Peggy who did have an issue with it but realized they couldn’t do anything about it.

Edited by biakbiak
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Well....I was sad watching this episode and am still hoping for a miracle.

I loved @anna0852 's post above about what happened to them all, except for the part about the parents dying so soon.  I guess because my own Dad is 91 and still kicking that I think the Cleary parents should have lived longer.  Perhaps if they died closer to the present I'd feel better about it.

Also, I think Fiona's age was intended to be genuine, not some kind of exaggeration by the character.  I think the show wanted to make it look like Lawrence was really going way outside the norm with her, which would be in character for him to do.  I do agree that she would have looked older in the early '70s if she were really 43, though.  Not 60 older, though.  My mom was 48 in 1972 and didn't look THAT old! 

BTW, women in their 40s in the '70s didn't normally wear jeans.  That was a younger generation thing to them.  They might wear pants now and then, but not the kind of jeans younger people wore.  In those days clothing was very age specific.  Most 40 something women wore dresses like the mom on this show.  Perhaps they were going for an aging hippy thing with her, but that was still not a "thing" back then.  Older people didn't act or dress like the younger generation even if they wanted to be more "hip and cool".  They did so in ways that the younger generation thought was funny and misplaced.  Like those guys that wore the soon-to-be everywhere "leisure suit".  The younger generation thought that was "farty" and dumb right away.  We were wearing worn out jeans and army surplus, not polyester.

But I hate to nitpick on what is the last episode of this show.  I can still hardly believe it especially knowing it had better ratings than some renewed shows.  Like most everything I focus my attention on these days, it seems unfair.

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BTW, did anyone notice that Wendy's hair was growing longer in this episode?  I think they were trying to progress her more into the trend of longer hair.  So sad that we'll likely never get to see her evolve.

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5 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Well....I was sad watching this episode and am still hoping for a miracle.

I loved @anna0852 's post above about what happened to them all, except for the part about the parents dying so soon.  I guess because my own Dad is 91 and still kicking that I think the Cleary parents should have lived longer.  Perhaps if they died closer to the present I'd feel better about it.

I thought that Mike's death was in cannon because Timmy had mentioned in an earlier episode that they wouldn't say 'I love you' for another 40 years and only because a hospice worker bugged them into it. So that meant 2012. No idea about Peggy though. But I figured those dates put them at least in their mid-eighties. Sorry if I made you sad!

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I am sad...

Even though Eddie and Pat were my favorites, I think I will miss William the most. Mainly because I think the actor is pretty good and I would have really liked to see him grow. He was probably the most underdeveloped kid and had a lot of potential. I hope he lands a good gig somewhere.

I thought this episode was a little uneven, but I did love the Lawrence/Peg moment at the end. I think Mary McCormack did a great job of showing her vulnerability just enough to make her not a monster. And I really did love the last scene: everyone there watching TV and Timmy getting the last line. It brought it full circle a bit to me. 

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Mary also had that surprising response in the first episode when they found Timmy on stage at the auditions.  When Frank protested as Mary turned to leave, she said Timmy was wonderful (or some other really flattering adjective).  Those little moments made this first season great.

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14 hours ago, Phebemarie said:

I agree- the one thing that rang false about the finale was Fiona's age.  In the 70s, turning 30 was the equivalent of turning 60 today (that might be a slight exaggeration).  Lawrence would have caused a scandal both by dating an older woman, but also be moving in with her.  Having Fiona be in her 40s seemed unnecessary.  

If the goal was to to make Fiona and Peggy the same age, they should have gotten an older actress.  Fiona looked like she could be Wendi's older sister.  

I kept thinking the 43 was just a ruse for the bar and at the end she would say she was in her 20s. Who knows? Maybe she is still lying about her age? 

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Young Timmy:  Ventriloquism will make me popular for sure.

Older Timmy:  It did not. 

Edited by Angeltoes
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2 hours ago, anna0852 said:

I thought that Mike's death was in cannon because Timmy had mentioned in an earlier episode that they wouldn't say 'I love you' for another 40 years and only because a hospice worker bugged them into it. So that meant 2012. No idea about Peggy though. But I figured those dates put them at least in their mid-eighties. Sorry if I made you sad!

No problem, I am sad anyway because of the cancellation....  😢

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1 hour ago, xander874 said:

I am sad...

Even though Eddie and Pat were my favorites, I think I will miss William the most. 

I think I will miss Pat the most.  He was just about the cutest thing ever on TV and I laughed so hard at his lines.

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Just now, Yeah No said:

I think I will miss Pat the most.  He was just about the cutest thing ever on TV and I laughed so hard at his lines.

I loved that kid. He was the one that was the age I was in 1972. I was probably more like William in that I always had my nose stuck in a book but Pat is my favorite. Also weirdly I have one younger brother named Andy that is the same age as the Andy in the show. I will miss this show SO much. 😿

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2 minutes ago, festivus said:

I loved that kid. He was the one that was the age I was in 1972. I was probably more like William in that I always had my nose stuck in a book but Pat is my favorite. Also weirdly I have one younger brother named Andy that is the same age as the Andy in the show. I will miss this show SO much. 😿

I know, I was just laughing and crying at the same time over this show and I never do that over a TV show.....My favorite lines of Pat's had to do with the "park eggs" and apologizing to the toilet, LOL.  😂

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Isn’t it interesting how easy it was to find different favorites? Pat and Timmy were my least favorite - which isn’t to say I didn’t love them too. The weird lines of Pat were funny because they were so strange, but they didn’t do anything for me other than an easy laugh. Timmy was kind of “one note” and I usually I liked the episodes that he had less to do.  

I love Frank for the weird lines mixed with vulnerability and I am crushed we won’t see what side of him wins. 

You could see the sarcastic but sweet William getting squashed by his brothers but when he got into it he controlled them and was the most aware - I really wanted to see a power struggle between him and Joey.  The other brothers would be chess pieces in a crazy game of thrones...That would be epic.  By a season three they would have been at the perfect age for that  

grrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I have to stop this because it is making me sad!!!

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It is interesting we all had different favorites.  I liked Timmy because he was just a couple of years older than me, and I was a "gotta act!" type personality as a little girl, so I found him very relateable.

I really liked Eddie and Wendy too!

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1 hour ago, HelenCrump said:

It is interesting we all had different favorites.  I liked Timmy because he was just a couple of years older than me, and I was a "gotta act!" type personality as a little girl, so I found him very relateable.

I really liked Eddie and Wendy too!

I liked Joey. Why/ Because he is the type of guy I would have had a crush on at that age. 

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I honestly loved them all and I loved the way they related to each other like Eddie being protective of Pat or Joey and Timmy mostly getting along because they were close in age. They'd sell each other out in a heartbeat though!

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27 minutes ago, festivus said:

They'd sell each other out in a heartbeat though!

That's why I liked Joey. As the godfather, he got things done and his shrewd, "I got a guy" street smarts and self interest were right out in the open. I have to believe he's the most financially successful of the brothers and if he isn't, I don't want to know about it.

But Peggy and Mike were the all stars for me. Mike especially crept up on me and Michael Cudlitz did a fantastic job bringing humanity and humor to a fairly stereotypical sitcom dad role.

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I can't even talk about how bummed I am that this was the last episode of this awesome series.

What I will say is that I can't believe Peggy and Mike didn't make a bigger deal out of Laurence living in sin with a woman.  Hell, I'm 51 years old and, if my Catholic parents had found out before their death that I had lived with a man out of wedlock even a few years ago, I would have been disowned, and that's no exaggeration. 

I thought it was a bit unfair that Lawrence made Wendi sound like she was some sort of wimp.  There's a difference between being bullied and respecting your boyfriend's mother.  Yes, Peggy was sort of a bully, but Wendi was merely being respectful to her. 

I notice that even Eddie didn't have any green beans on his plate.

I remember the ventriloquist that ended up with Knuckles. I hadn't thought about him and his own dummy for about 40 years, but this was a fun jog of my memory! 

My DVR cut off Timmy's last line. Can someone please fill me in?  I hear something about the summer of '72 being one of letting go for him and his mom.  Was there a line after that?

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5 hours ago, Cowgirl said:

My dvr cut off Timmy's last line.....

MY dvr cut off Timmy's last line, too.  While I got ready to watch the episode of **blackish** that , there was Timmy's last line.  Timmy said "Fly high my wooden friend, fly high."

If I hadn't found this little tidbit of dialog, I would have watched it on demand.

I am SO unhappy that this was the last TKAA episode.  As the oldest child in a large Irish  Catholic family (6 boys, 2 girls), I could relate to so much of the Cleary family life.  

I think a novena to St. Clare of Assisi is in order.  Nine days of prayers for a miracle.

(By the way, St. Clare was named patron saint of television in 1958  by Pope Pius XII.  According to the website Busted Halo, when Clare was ill and unable to attend mass, she was miraculously able to view mass on her wall.)

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Wait, no way Paul Dooley (Fr. Dunne) was born in 1928, but that's what I'm reading online on IMDB and Wikipedia.  That would make him 91!  Wow!

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I noticed Baby Andy was left with William. I think William (not Bill, not Will, not Billy - as someone who has an easy abbreviated name but HATES that eliding and prefers a less common one or, just, my actual name, so I like that he’s William) and Eddie are the only ones who are really given Baby Andy. I wonder how much of that is from the creators life - the Eddie brother and William brother were the caretaker kids - or how much is just from the set - the actors who play Eddie and William are good with toddlers so the writers just do it that way.  

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2 hours ago, lefawn said:

I noticed Baby Andy was left with William. I think William (not Bill, not Will, not Billy - as someone who has an easy abbreviated name but HATES that eliding and prefers a less common one or, just, my actual name, so I like that he’s William) and Eddie are the only ones who are really given Baby Andy. I wonder how much of that is from the creators life - the Eddie brother and William brother were the caretaker kids - or how much is just from the set - the actors who play Eddie and William are good with toddlers so the writers just do it that way.  

When William was holding baby Andy at the end... I thought they looked like they could be real-life siblings.  (It made me wonder if they are... they looked so comfortable together.)

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Whimsy

I know this show is over and we are all sad. But, this is still the thread for this episode ONLY. I created a new thread to talk about your hopes for the Cleary’s future and also where you can discuss the real-life Cleary family. Other discussion, such as how it was for you or your family or whatever in the 70’s goes in “My Generation” thread. I’ve moved some posts to be in the appropriate places. 

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