S08.E05: The Bells

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

Varys betrays his queen, and Daenerys brings her forces to King's Landing.

Reminder: 

There is open air book talk here. If you are just watching the TV show and you don't want to stumble into any book talk you should leave now. Book Talk assumes you have read all the books to date. Any information from unpublished books, such as preview chapters should be in spoiler tags.

[Spartan Girl]

Well, on the bright side, I don't think anybody cares about how the books will be any different anymore.

Fuck D and D and their fake feminism.

And fuck GRRM. We might have been prepared for this if he just finished the stupid books, but nooooooo.

[huahaha]

I'd call it character assassination, but that would make more sense than what actually happened.

[Indigo Luna]

 

Me, currently 

[LittleIggy]

Wow. I’m speechless. Mad King? They made Dany the Bat Shit Crazy Queen.

Something I enjoyed: Qyburn being tossed like a rag doll by the Mountain.

Edited May 13, 2019 by LittleIggy

[Eyes High]

I loved it. Beautiful, brutal, devastating. Made 8x03 look like a walk in the park.

The Sandor/Arya and Jaime/Tyrion last scenes ripped my heart out. Maisie made Arya look so young and vulnerable.

Where the fuck was Tyrion? He made a few horrified faces and then took the rest of the episode off. At least Jon and Arya tried to do something, although to be fair it took them a while to snap into protector mode.

Jaime and Cersei’s deaths were so affecting.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Eyes High

[mac123x]

Wow!  Fuck this episode with the sword sticking through the Mountain's chest! 

Dany's annihilation of Kings Landing was so unearned.  They'd set her up with a decent, non-insane reason to be harsh with the city:  she told Jon that basically if she couldn't inspire love she'd inspire fear.  So far so good, and I was actually thinking that they'd given themselves a way to avoid the Mad Queen trope.  She could be nuclear destructive to the Iron Fleet and the city walls (amazing way to breach the gates!) but would stop when they surrendered.  No, she inexplicably goes complete ham.

Seriously, it's as if they knew what they wanted (Kings Landing burnt to a crisp) but didn't know how to get there except in the most lazy way possible.  How about having the city laced with wildfire and Dany's attack accidentally sets it off?  Something that didn't require her to go completely mental.  Spectacle over coherent plot, every time.

Jaime really did go back to save Cercei.  My eyes rolled out of my head.  He'd had some nice character development but it had to be erased for their twin-death.

Hound died to fire, I thought that was a nice way to go.  Well, the fall probably killed him first.  I don't know why he didn't try a dragonglass weapon on him.

Arya's totally going to go faceless assassin on Dany

[Scarlett45]

Like wut? The best part was Sandor telling Arya to leave. I’m just shaking my head. 

[SeanC]

1 minute ago, huahaha said:

I'd call it character assassination, but that would make more sense than what actually happened.

Indeed.

"Mad Queen" Dany has always been something people debated, but hoo boy did they not earn it.  It just ends up being like a flipped switch and then she decides to destroy the entire city even though she's won (except the Red Keep, where the person she really wants to kill is, for whatever reason.

On a filmmaking level this was genuinely spectacular, but all in the service of a garbage script.

Also, the writers appear to have decided to junk everything about Cersei and Jaime's book stories except that they die at the end.  I guess the valonqar just didn't fit their vision of the characters.

I had to laugh about how Sansa wasn't even in the episode and yet multiple conversations revolved around her.

[huahaha]

1 minute ago, Eyes High said:

Jaime and Cersei’s deaths were so affecting.

I've always considered Jaime and Cersei the epic tragic romance of the series. This was a fitting ending for them.

[raven]

I actually laughed when the building fell on Jamie and Cersei.  I think their ridiculous ending was the worst.  The romantic music! The crying over the baby!  FFS

The Tyrion/Jamie scene was good; I have to overlook the sheer idiocy of Tyrion but the acting was top notch.  I thought Emilia Clarke (the little we saw of her) and Maisie Williams both did good work.  I liked Qyburn dying like a little bitch and Cersei peace-ing outta there was kind of amusing.

The Arya/Hound scenes were good.

The rest was a total mess, though the dragon and burning scenes, the effects I mean, are obviously where all the money is going.  They all looked great.

Oh and FUCK Urine. How the fuck does that asshole get a heroic death too?  He should have been burned alive.

[SeanC]

Just now, raven said:

I thought Emilia Clarke (the little we saw of her) and Maisie Williams both did good work. 

I've often thought that Clarke was a decent actress but rarely exceptional, but she's absolutely been killing it this season, even as the writing for her character has collapsed.

[nodorothyparker]

What a self-indulgent mess of bullshit.  In one fell swoop not only did they destroy the city and everything that made this universe, they also told us that nothing ever mattered.  These characters never mattered.  Their development and their stories never mattered.  All the years of plotting and maneuvering never mattered.   Thanks for paying to follow us for eight years, but nope, never mattered.  Hope you weren't expecting to be satisfied or entertained in any way.

Goddammit.

[Portia4844]

The looks on the faces of Jon and Arya were heartbreaking.   

[jcin617]

I guess Dany just took Missandei's last word literally.  
 

[Hanahope]

I do wish they explained why Dany didn’t take the surrender but torched everyone anyway.  She used to have mercy, one ally death and she’s bat shit crazy?  

I just expected more.  This seemed very drab just blow up stuff without reason.  

I knew Sandor would only be able to take out Gregor with a big sacrifice.

and Cersie and Jamie, ugh the worst death scene ever.  Total lack of payoff.  

Definitely the worst episode of the season, or maybe the whole series.

and still with the lazy opening credits.  That used to be entertaining, now it’s worthless.  Though maybe next week it’ll show KL in ruins.

you have to wonder whose left to rule after Dany torched them all.

[raven]

4 minutes ago, SeanC said:

I've often thought that Clarke was a decent actress but rarely exceptional, but she's absolutely been killing it this season, even as the writing for her character has collapsed.

I was impressed by her demeanor when Tyrion first approaches her at the beginning of the ep and when she dracarysed Varys. 

I imagine EC and Dumb and Dumber discussing about how to play the Varys execution and I think it was done just right; resigned, calm, maybe a bit regretful that someone else has betrayed her.

[Umbelina]

8 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I loved it. Beautiful, brutal, devastating. Made 8x03 look like a walk in the park.

The Sandor/Arya and Jaime/Tyrion last scenes ripped my heart out. Maisie made Arya look so young and vulnerable.

Where the fuck was Tyrion? He made a few horrified faces and then took the rest of the episode off. At least Jon and Arya tried to do something, although to be fair it took them a while to snap into protector mode.

Jaime and Cersei’s deaths were so affecting.

Well, they took all the way to the end before they REALLY showed the effects of these "royal" wars on common people, but at least they finally got in one of the main points of GRRM's books.

FUCK Cersei's death, I wanted suffering for her, and justice.  Damn, they will do anything for Lena won't they?  Grrrr

5 minutes ago, raven said:

I actually laughed when the building fell on Jamie and Cersei.  I think their ridiculous ending was the worst.  The romantic music! The crying over the baby!  FFS

The Tyrion/Jamie scene was good; I have to overlook the sheer idiocy of Tyrion but the acting was top notch.  I thought Emilia Clarke (the little we saw of her) and Maisie Williams both did good work.  I liked Qyburn dying like a little bitch and Cersei peace-ing outta there was kind of amusing.

The Arya/Hound scenes were good.

The rest was a total mess, though the dragon and burning scenes, the effects I mean, are obviously where all the money is going.  They all looked great.

Oh and FUCK Urine. How the fuck does that asshole get a heroic death too?  He should have been burned alive.

Yeah,  I am furious about Cersei's death, and them not including the prophesy.  BS 

I did love Arya and the hound though.

Was that Arya on the white horse at the end?  Are we supposed to thing that the Hounds words are going to make her change, dump justice and revenge and go be happy somewhere?

[CherryMalotte]

1 minute ago, Scarlett45 said:

The best part was Sandor telling Arya to leave. I’m just shaking my head.

I teared up for Sandor and his holding her, it was the biggest kindness he's been able to bestow.  To the end I was hoping he'd just shove Living Dead brother off by himself, but taking himself out too...heartbreaking.  That's someone you knew was probably going to not have a great ending, but you still had that teeny tiny hope that he'd be at the end of it all having a goat farm with some wilding girl.  But alas...

I don't see Dany as mad in the insane sense, more like I'm really really highly pissed off, and I'm going to take out all my built up anger on random people and buildings.  Poor Varys...didn't like your end but it was no surprise.  Dany has no fucks to give anymore.  Which is why Tyrion is a marked man now.  

Cripes, that was a lot of crispy crittered small folk.  Won't be too many to clear out the rubble.  

[domina89]

I was kinda hoping to see Drogon torch the iron throne... 

I feel like I need a season one palette cleanse after that mess.

[jeansheridan]

I am still processing. I think Dany and Greyworm always had a different plan from Jon and Tyrion. Greyworm was out for blood.

Wild fire was going off in the city. There were green patches flaring. 

It was cool to see the full power of the dragon however.

I am a little surprised Jaime had such a hero's death. That actually was a pretty damn happy ending for him, dying with the woman he loved. I admit I was wrong. He went because he loved her.

But I loved Tyrion hugging him one last time. That killed me. 

I also loved seeing the attack from Arya's POV. A girl may be an assassin but that doesn't mean a thing again falling bricks and fire and blood thirsty Dothraki.

And Sandor! A beautiful ugly death. That was way more satisfying than seeing Jon and the Night King fight. 

I liked Jaime's ugly fight too. I believe those two are great friends in real life so it was probably fun.

[HeySandyStrange]

So what was the point of having Jaime finally get together with Brienne, if he ran straight back into Cersei's arms after their failed attempt to run off in the sunset together? Why let Brienne cry over this subpar version of Jaime? What a waste of a complex character like Jaime.

Cersei should have burned. Screw her and her incest baby, I don't care how hard the show tried to tug at my cold heart.

I'm someone who could get behind Dany having a streak of insanity/cruelness, but this was way too much way to fast. Dany was never an idiot, and she always had common sense and at least a modicum of compassion. Why they hell would a smart leader like Dany burn down the city she wanted to rule? Makes no sense.

Liked how Qyburn got his, though, lol. 

Edited May 13, 2019 by HeySandyStrange

[meatball77]

The thumbs in the eyes.  I couldn't even watch that.  EEW

Well, I guess they gave everyone a reason to want to kill Dany.  She didn't even seem to care about her own soldiers.  Jon or Arya can now take her down and feel good about it.  Although I could kind of see Jon just taking his northmen home.

 

[jeansheridan]

Isn't Jon dead? I thought Arya saw his sword? Which would be a great way to kill him. An anonymous death in the streets due to friendly fire. That seems very Martin.

[mac123x]

6 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

I do wish they explained why Dany didn’t take the surrender but torched everyone anyway.  She used to have mercy, one ally death and she’s bat shit crazy?  

Yeah, she said the people would prefer Jon.  So her response to that is "let's make sure the people will REALLY prefer Jon.  Or Stannis.  Or Cercei.  Or Joffrey."  I mean, Cercei only blew up the Sept and killed a few thousand people in the process.  She seems like Baelor the Blessed in comparison.

[AshleyN]

This is kind of where I'm at:

Weirdly enough, this might have felt the most GRRM-like of anything the show has done in ages, and I can absolutely believe this is his intended ending. But unfortunately the show hasn't done the same work to set it up, both in terms of Dany's characterization and the much heavier focus on the anti-war themes, the ugly side of revenge fantasies, and the idea that it's ultimately the common people who suffer the most under this system. Last week I actually defended the idea that Dany's has long been portrayed as skirting the line between saviour and tyrant, and her instincts when challenged almost always go straight to Fire and Blood, but the idea that she'd commit an all out, intentional massacre of innocents AFTER the city had surrendered and she had already won just isn't supported by what we've seen from her in the show.

Also, goddamn I am disappointed in where they took Jaime here.

Edited May 13, 2019 by AshleyN

[rmontro]

Personally, I thought Clegane Bowl was the highlight of the episode.

Too bad Jaime didn't kill Cersei and stay true to Brienne.  Respect to Lena Headey for her great acting, not only in making us hate her, but for actually making me feel a little sorry for her in the end, something I wouldn't have believed possible last week.

That was some nuclear level devastation by Drogon.  They must have given that dragon some Energizer batteries because he just kept going and going.  If he would have unleashed that kind of power on the undead in Episode Three, things might have looked much different at Winterfell.

Looks like Grey Worm lost all his humanity when Missandei died.  Now he's just a heartless war machine again.

It looks like the final flip to the insanity switch was Jon Snow's rejection.  He told Dany he loved her (finally?), but then couldn't get past that she was his aunt, I guess?  Anyway:

I hate what they did to Dany's character.  It was completely unearned, and not at all the character we saw in the first seven and a half seasons.  What they had her do was completely laughable, comedic, tragic nonsense.  Utter garbage, I can't say it enough.  And next week it looks like they've set her up as some neo-Nazi like figure.  Doesn't matter anymore, the damage is done.  What a travesty.

[ShellsandCheese]

4 minutes ago, rmontro said:

It looks like the final flip to the insanity switch was Jon Snow's rejection.  He told Dany he loved her (finally?), but then couldn't get past that she was his aunt, I guess?  Anyway:

I hate what they did to Dany's character.  It was completely unearned, and not at all the character we saw in the first seven and a half seasons.  What they had her do was completely laughable, comedic, tragic nonsense.  Utter garbage, I can't say it enough.  And next week it looks like they've set her up as some neo-Nazi like figure.  Doesn't matter anymore, the damage is done.  What a travesty.

She's not insane though, that's just it. These were not the actions of a mad or insane woman. She did it deliberately. You could see that she was hesitant when the bells were ringing and then her face changed it was like fuck it - I'm going to burn this shit down. She was pushed to her limits and used what she had to reign down vengeance; unfortunately, for everyone else, her weapon was Drogon. Although, I gotta say, this episode kind of made all of season seven and most of this season pointless. Dany could have done that at the end of season six or the beginning of season seven. She didn't even need the other two dragons. I don't think she was even thinking about civilian casualties, she just wanted that city to burn. I loved it when Drogon broke through the gates of Kings Landing, that was nice. 

Edited May 13, 2019 by ShellsandCheese

[jeansheridan]

2 minutes ago, rmontro said:

It looks like the final flip to the insanity switch was Jon Snow's rejection.  He told Dany he loved her (finally?), but then couldn't get past that she was his aunt, I guess

I wish they had given him some more dialogue there. Explain to her that he just couldn't overcome his culture. And that they are family and he loves her as such. I mean he's her family! That could have been something. Something for her to hold on to. Tyrion and Jaime have proven family love matters a lot. And so have the Starks. They could be the Targaryens, together. Sexual feelings can fade with time and space. 

Oh well. They went in another direction.

[GrailKing]

I loved it, and they were certainly dropping hints since S1.

We first See Dani walk into scalding water, her maid is thinking what any normal person would:

You're going to burn yourself, what normal person does that.

Next is the dragon eggs, she's in a trance state ( maybe voices , maybe Bran) she grabs for the egg, aide 2 try's to stop her she and many of us would think, girl you're gonna be sorry, except she doesn't burn, now we are starting to think, hmmm maybe something to this girl.

S1-6 She watches her Brother burn, no emotions ice cold.

But now we get the pyre scene S1-10  followers and  Jorah's are thinking, she's depressed, flipped her lid  he or they  weren't  around to see first 2 incidents. We on the other hand are starting to say well maybe there's something to this girl, end of S1.

Then we see her amass armies, children are hung on crosses, she reply's the same to the masters. The masters she put in front of her two dragons no proof it's a fear tactic and a brutal one.

As the series progress she vacillates between humanity and brutality; Cersei pushed her over the edge with Missandei and her paranoia about Jon, and no love from the people of Westeros. Once she saw them surrender I think she basically said fuck it, and GW did too.

I liked the Hound and Arya scene, if Arya is wise, she settle down or just explore the world, stay out of fights. The look on her face was all those words GRRM wrote in her chapters on the horror of war.

Cersei's death a bit too sentimental for me and yeah he chose his sister over Brienne.

I did not think the way Sandor went out was lame like I saw people on reddit yelled about, the only way his brother would die was by fire.

Fuck Quyburn !

Tyrion, betrayed Varys as I thought, next week I think Dani will go after Sansa or other parts of the realm to make them kneel, and Jon will have to make a decision, and Arya's look was anger.  

Edited May 13, 2019 by GrailKing
spelling

[Umbelina]

FYI the inside the episode goes into a lot of details about Dany's actions in this episode.

[rmontro]

7 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Although, I gotta say, this episode kind of made all of season seven and most of this season pointless. Dany could have done that at the end of season six or the beginning of season seven. She didn't even need the other two dragons. 

Didn't need the other two dragons?  She didn't even need an army.  If she would have attacked a few seasons ago, solo, there wouldn't even have been the hyped up scorpions for her to dodge.  She could have burned the place to the ground as soon as Drogon was mature enough.

I disagree that she isn't insane though.  She's in total dark mode, these aren't the actions of the girl we saw in the first seven and a half seasons.  You don't undergo that drastic a personality change without blowing a few fuses.

[CherryMalotte]

2 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

You could see that she was hesitant when the bells were ringing and then her face changed it was like fuck it - I'm going to burn this shit down. She was pushed to her limits and used what she had to reign down vengeance; unfortunately, for everyone else, her weapon was Drogon. 

Exactly.  Just for a moment I thought she'd heard the bells...and then took off to maybe torch the Red Keep only or just show off Drogon to the masses to frighten them into submission.  Nope, war is all hell and it certainly looks like seven hells now.  

Hat's off to the production crew - it was very Pompeii/volcanic ash looking.  Reminded me a bit of Dresden after the WW2 bombing or parts of Italy. They did an excellent job.  

[tennisgurl]

Is this seriously what GRRM wanted out of his story? Reading the books, I just cant see this as the ending that its all leading to, unless a LOT of weird shit goes down in the last couple books. I have to think that the books will end differently, as they have so many different characters and their characterizations are often different, I can only hope he looks at this and says "ummm, no" and does something else. I just cant imagine this being how things end for book Jaimie and book Dany. I just cant see it. I dont even see it for the show, and even less so in the books. 

[Scaeva]

Dany destroying King's Landing is probably 100% Martin, but the TV series did not do a good job of presenting her pivot toward outright villainy. It felt sudden. Maybe it was a consequence of the short season. 

If this is how it will go in the books, her character development will no doubt be handled more deftly. Martin's twists never feel unearned.

[stagmania]

36 minutes ago, SeanC said:

I've often thought that Clarke was a decent actress but rarely exceptional, but she's absolutely been killing it this season, even as the writing for her character has collapsed.

Seems like she really upped her game to try to elevate the material where she could.

10 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

I wish they had given him some more dialogue there. Explain to her that he just couldn't overcome his culture. And that they are family and he loves her as such. I mean he's her family! That could have been something. Something for her to hold on to. Tyrion and Jaime have proven family love matters a lot. And so have the Starks. They could be the Targaryens, together. Sexual feelings can fade with time and space. 

Oh well. They went in another direction.

It doesn’t seem like Jon actually does love her, as family or otherwise. If they mean for us to think he does, it’s another storytelling failure. All I get from him is ambivalence and exhaustion.

[tennisgurl]

33 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Well, they took all the way to the end before they REALLY showed the effects of these "royal" wars on common people, but at least they finally got in one of the main points of GRRM's books.

I mean in that context, yeah it sure did show that. It reminded me of the backstories where various Targ kings and queens waged violent war on each other, slaughtering innocents and countless soldiers, and even each other, all to get that throne. Very Dance of Dragons, with all the awful things that happened during that. Of course, at least Kings Landing usually stayed in once piece, not sure what happens next. Property values go down? Habitat for Humanity chapters spark up everywhere?

[jeansheridan]

1 minute ago, stagmania said:

It doesn’t seem like Jon actually does love her, as family or otherwise. If they mean for us to think he does, it’s another storytelling failure. All I get from him is ambivalence and exhaustion

I get those too but I think the ambivalence is he still wants her but can't bring himself to ignore their blood tie. I mean, I know they don't generate much sexual chemistry. You can't write that unfortunately. I mean I felt he had more chemistry with Tormund. Kit is great at bro chemistry.

[mac123x]

12 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

FYI the inside the episode goes into a lot of details about Dany's actions in this episode.

Really?  I expected something like "We knew in season 5 that we wanted Dany to go full mad queen, but we weren't able to figure out how to get her there organically so we just had it come out of the blue.  In case you hadn't noticed yet, we're pretty much hacks."  

But seriously folx, I'm a firm believer in Death of the Author -- They can explain it all they want in commentaries and background material, but if they didn't include it in the canonical show, it doesn't count.  

Edited May 13, 2019 by mac123x

[rmontro]

8 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Is this seriously what GRRM wanted out of his story? Reading the books, I just cant see this as the ending that its all leading to, unless a LOT of weird shit goes down in the last couple books. I have to think that the books will end differently, as they have so many different characters and their characterizations are often different, I can only hope he looks at this and says "ummm, no" and does something else. 

I don't doubt this was the gist of what GRRM had planned, but he would have hopefully had the skill to get to that ending without it all feeling like a giant bait and switch.  This episode just felt like over the top nonsense, and next episode Dany looks like she's presiding over the Gestapo and the Brownshirts.  It's like Game of Thrones took a left turn into a different series.  

I'd like to think Martin has the skill as an author to avoid these pitfalls.

[RedheadZombie]

5 minutes ago, mac123x said:

Really?  I expected something like "We knew in season 5 that we wanted Dany to go full mad queen, but we weren't able to figure out how to get her there organically so we just had it come out of the blue.  In case you hadn't noticed yet, we're pretty much hacks."  

But seriously folx, I'm a firm believer in [url=]https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfTheAuthorDeath of the Author[/url] -- They can explain it all they want in commentaries and background material, but if they didn't include it in the canonical material, it doesn't count.  

Show don't tell.

Subvert this D&D.

[GrailKing]

53 minutes ago, SeanC said:

I had to laugh about how Sansa wasn't even in the episode and yet multiple conversations revolved around her.

Where? I don't see any in here, and Dani mention her once I think  D & D ? I was concentrating on typing so I may have missed something there.

[Lamima]

I told someone, earlier today, that this season was not up to par but it hadn't pulled a full on Walking Dead and completely jumped the shark. I spoke too soon. 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Lamima

[TobinAlbers]

Arya as the living witness was a nice touch as otherwise her journey to KL was for nothing. Also someone pointed out to me that she resembles Ned now in dress and hair style. In some of the shadowy shots she looked exactly like Ned. 

So if Jon had bedded Dany and given body and soul to her she wouldn't have gone whole ham on KL? Or would she have expected him to keep following her lead. I can't put Dany's rampage on Jon or Sansa or Tyrion. Dany's actions are her own and for her to choose blood just because Jon wouldn't pony up his peen is on her and her alone. 

Cersei got off way too easy and Jamie should've died at the hands of anyone other than Euron. Grey Wind's ghost would've been better.

[stagmania]

7 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

I get those too but I think the ambivalence is he still wants her but can't bring himself to ignore their blood tie. I mean, I know they don't generate much sexual chemistry. You can't write that unfortunately. I mean I felt he had more chemistry with Tormund. Kit is great at bro chemistry.

If they’d had him say a few comforting words to her, or attempt to take care of her even as just a friend in this ep, they could have gotten it across. But he just seems wary of her, not worried about her.

1 minute ago, rmontro said:

I don't doubt this was the gist of what GRRM had planned, but he would have hopefully had the skill to get to that ending without it all feeling like a giant bait and switch.  This episode just felt like over the top nonsense, and next episode Dany looks like she's presiding over the Gestapo and the Brownshirts.  It's like Game of Thrones took a left turn into a different series.  

I'd like to think Martin has the skill as an author to avoid these pitfalls.

I think if GRRM ever finished writing the books, this ending would be different not only in the lead up and character arcs but also in the execution of the key moments. No way in GRRM’s version does Dany just decide to kill women and children without us thoroughly understanding her motivations.

[jeansheridan]

I feel like Dany was sending a brutal message to all the Seven Kingdoms and maybe even across the narrow sea. Just like Varys was a message to Sansa, she is also telling the entire known world to submit. If she's still sane, she showers other cities with riches and rewards those who submit quickly.

Isn't that the lesson of Harrenhall? 

Also, I liked seeing Arya at the mercy of that fire. Last week she benefited from that fire. Dany protected the living world with that fire. Don't appreciate me? Let's see how you like being on the receiving end.

I think she planned it with Greyworm. I think it was a brutal plan but she did it. She never agreed to the bell idea. 

[Lamima]

1 minute ago, jeansheridan said:

I feel like Dany was sending a brutal message to all the Seven Kingdoms and maybe even across the narrow sea. Just like Varys was a message to Sansa, she is also telling the entire known world to submit. If she's still sane, she showers other cities with riches and rewards those who submit quickly.

Isn't that the lesson of Harrenhall? 

Also, I liked seeing Arya at the mercy of that fire. Last week she benefited from that fire. Dany protected the living world with that fire. Don't appreciate me? Let's see how you like being on the receiving end.

I think she planned it with Greyworm. I think it was a brutal plan but she did it. She never agreed to the bell idea. 

This plan would also get rid of any followers Jon might have (those who surrendered and Jon's nothern army all got wiped out pretty much). Now there is Dany and her Dothraki and Unsullied. It will be hard for any uprising from Jon's side. 

[GrailKing]

49 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

one ally death and she’s bat shit crazy?  

Really ? Selmy, Jorah, Missandie, 4000 unsully, 40000 Dothdraki, 2 dragons Jorah's first betrayal. the healer who killed her husband and son. ONE DEATH ?

Add those  with the S1 stuff I already listed, then showing swings of humanity and brutality, paranoia and isolation, rejection from the people of Westeros ( thanks to dad ) and the north, the love for Jon, her requiring people to submit or she uses her dragons for fear or death.

Noooo it wasn't one death, or one incident, they gave it to us slowly but easy to see if we look.  

[spaceghostess]

Oh, FFS. Endless scenes of the Jaime and Cersei love story? I'm supposed to feel bad for them why, exactly?  While Dany's character has been fucked over seven ways to Sunday?

Yeah, D&D & GRRM: War is hell (said every movie, book, and t.v. show about this exact topic in the last 150 years or so). No fucking shit. This is not news.

Whether or not Emilia Clarke is laughing all the way to the bank, it must have been so painful for her to learn how her character would be torn down, much less have to act it. No wonder she needed to walk around half a day processing.

Edited May 13, 2019 by spaceghostess
I can't even with this shit

[anamika]

39 minutes ago, rmontro said:

It looks like the final flip to the insanity switch was Jon Snow's rejection.  He told Dany he loved her (finally?), but then couldn't get past that she was his aunt, I guess?  Anyway:

Which is what D&D are implying in their after episode nonsense. Like what an end to Dany's character arc - a man rejected me, so I will go burn down everyone. Ugh.

And no I don't think GRRM is going this way for Dany even if the character endings are the same. His vision is not as nihilistic as D&D's. His story is not that the bad guys are smart and win and good guys are stupid and lose. His story is not that children cannot overcome their parents legacy unlike D&D's, Dany is like her father at the end.

GRRM's final book and story is about the war against the Others - because that is a big deal there - the political infighting does not matter when the dead are coming. We know Dany fights against them at the trident from her visions. Cersei is not the big human bad guy in the books. Even if Dany dies next episode and she does so in the books, I can see it happening for entirely different reasons - not like this.

Like none of the prophecies or history matters on the show. R+L=J, Rhaegar eloping with Lyanna for prophecy, Jon's birth or resurrection, PTWP, Valonqar, Jaime and the mad king, the 3ER, Dany's prophecies - none of this had any meaning on the show.