S08.E04: The Last of the Starks

[Andromeda]

3 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Why does everybody act like Dany's only option against Cersei is a frontal assault? This is the Yunkai-est situation ever, which is made easier because Cersei has actually flung open the doors to Westeros to offer protection and shelter. Dany and Jon just need a couple of folks to enter Kings Landing to set some fires and frustrate efforts while the combined forces are attacking. If the infiltration group happens to find some wildfire and use it strategically at the Red Keep, so much the better.

SO MUCH THIS. Last season Tyrion and Davos snuck into the city -- Tyrion and Jamie know every nook and cranny of the Red Keep. Surely they should realize that it doesn't matter how many troops each side has, if they can sneak in and kill Cersei. And why didn't they arrange with Arya to use her skills to take out the last name on her list?

Grey Worm snuck into one of the Eastern cities with a small contingent and took it as well.

I'm confused by how stupid everyone has become.

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Just a dragon girl.. living in a Pentos world.. she took the Dothraki Sea going anywhere ♪

Just a bastard boy.. to the Wall he did deploy.. he hit the Kingsroad with thermal underwear ♫

Ok, you win today's inter-galactic innertubz contest.....

[Bryce Lynch]

18 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

She didn't swear to keep the secret for Dany she swore to keep the secret for Jon. The family she is supposedly cares so much about. 

Right, and when has Sansa ever shown she cared about her family?

When she despised Arya and Jon while they grew up at Winterfell?

When she lied against Arya on the Kingsroad for her beloved Joffrey?

When she didn't want to forgive her father for killing her direwolf, when she caused it by telling that lie?

When she called her father, mother and brother traitors?  (OK, she was trying to save her own skin, so I don't really blame her, but that isn't great family loyalty)

When she lied to protect the murderer of her Aunt Lysa?

When she withheld the Knights of the Vale from Jon at the BOTB until the last moment?

When she told Jon he should give up on saving her little brother (and heir to WF) Rickon?

When she resented Jon being name KITN and instead of shouting "The King in the North" with all the other Northern Lords and Ladies, she gave an upset look to Littlefinger?

When she contradicted and undermined Jon in front the the Lords at every chance?

When she almost fell for  Littlefinger's plot against Arya?

When she refused to accept the decision of her brother and King to bend the knee to Daenerys?

When she betrayed his confidence despite her oath?

Edited May 6, 2019 by Bryce Lynch

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Helena Dax said:

If Lyanna and Edd had woken up as wights, why weren't they destroyed when Arya killed the NK?

I don't think the bodies were evaporated or anything like that.  I think the dead just returned to be really most sincerely not undead anymore and not controlled by the NK.

[Bryce Lynch]

5 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Lol and hotpie can make her another wolf cake and ask about winterhell 

Well, after the battle with the NK's army, maybe Hot Pie wasn't so wrong about the name.  Maybe he will bake some hound bread for Sandor as well  

[watchTV]

4 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Sansa doesn't want A Stark in power.  She wants Sansa Stark to be in power.  She has resented, undermined and resisted Jon, from the start, the same as she has done with Dany.

Sansa is not afraid of Dany being another Cersei.  Sansa IS an off brand Cersei/Littlefinger self centered manipulator.

We must not be watching the same show. Sansa went through some very rough and despicable experiences that has shaped who she is now. Her family was mudered and she witnessed her good father's death. She was sold to a very abhorrent man who defiled her then killed her brother for amusement. That wasn't even the first time she was forced into marriage. She's been around all the vile people that did this to her. So can she be blamed for being highly skeptical of people's intentions?

If she really wanted to undermine Jon she wouldn't have told him they didn't have enough people to fight Ramsay. Jon went anyway. Let him do enough damage against Ramsay's men and let him get slaughtered when he was surrounded. Then the cavalry of house Arryn could finish off Ramsay. Because that is what a hybrid Cersei/Baelish selfish manipulator would do. Just like Cersei waited for them to take out the NK and then attack.

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

SO MUCH THIS. Last season Tyrion and Davos snuck into the city -- Tyrion and Jamie know every nook and cranny of the Red Keep. Surely they should realize that it doesn't matter how many troops each side has, if they can sneak in and kill Cersei. And why didn't they arrange with Arya to use her skills to take out the last name on her list?

Grey Worm snuck into one of the Eastern cities with a small contingent and took it as well.

I'm confused by how stupid everyone has become.

I'm just thankful the stupid waves can't flow from my flat screen into my cranium. If so, I may forget how to feed myself.

Hmmm....on Bob Dylan's great 1974 album "Blood on the Tracks" there's a song titled "Idiot Wind" which might be the ideal song for the final post show title sequence... 

[Bryce Lynch]

5 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

SO MUCH THIS. Last season Tyrion and Davos snuck into the city -- Tyrion and Jamie know every nook and cranny of the Red Keep. Surely they should realize that it doesn't matter how many troops each side has, if they can sneak in and kill Cersei. And why didn't they arrange with Arya to use her skills to take out the last name on her list?

Grey Worm snuck into one of the Eastern cities with a small contingent and took it as well.

I'm confused by how stupid everyone has become.

At Dany's next war council meeting, she should scream, "We need better writers!"

[UNOSEZ]

17 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

Who is asking you to give her points?  I'm not.  Daenerys went in as a conquerer and liberated the enslaved.  Their laws sucked and they were removed.  It's all well and good to claim the law is on your side when you are abusing others and depriving them of their liberty.  I say, fuck the law.  When its oppressive and corrupt, it needs to be reworked.  Daenerys reworked it.  Too bad that the high born had to carry their own water or pay someone to do it.  Cersei hasn't liberated anyone, but she certainly murdered countless innocents to get back at a few people when she had wildfire ignited under the sept.  Daenerys crucified people who were more than likely responsible for crucifying CHILDREN to make a point.  The dragon feeding incident was no worse than strapping a woman to a table for a monstrosity to violate repeatedly.  It was showing authority as the HMFIC.  In fact, what Cersei did was far more egregious.  And finally the Khalasar was destroyed because its leadership was crude, vulgar and threatened Daenerys's person repeatedly.   Her first impulse may be worrisome, but she has not acted on it yet.  Can you say that about her adversary? 

I'm not trying to compare Dany to cersei tho... I dunno who at this point is... I was saying that as the presumptive next ruler of the 7 ( or 6) kingdoms her track record as a conqueror not ruler is something to be worried about at best and cognizant of at least... What happens when some of the southern lords don't want another targaryen.. Wl she roast them like she did in dragon 's bay and to the tarlys... History says yes.. and that's not a good ruler... If its a choice tween Dany and Cersei.. Its a no brainer.. If your asking me what her reign could be.. At her best she's a good and kind if not probably snooty queen.. At worst she's a terror who everyone would be fearful of until they rebelled just like with her dad.. 

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, watchTV said:

We must not be watching the same show. Sansa went through some very rough and despicable experiences that has shaped who she is now. Her family was mudered and she witnessed her good father's death. She was sold to a very abhorrent man who defiled her then killed her brother for amusement. That wasn't even the first time she was forced into marriage. She's been around all the vile people that did this to her. So can she be blamed for being highly skeptical of people's intentions?

If she really wanted to undermine Jon she wouldn't have told him they didn't have enough people to fight Ramsay. Jon went anyway. Let him do enough damage against Ramsay's men and let him get slaughtered when he was surrounded. Then the cavalry of house Arryn could finish off Ramsay. Because that is what a hybrid Cersei/Baelish selfish manipulator would do. Just like Cersei waited for them to take out the NK and then attack.

She desperately wanted to take back WF so SHE could be safe. 

If she really, fully supported Jon, she would have told him she could call up the Knight of the Vale, and he could have delayed the attack for a day, and saved thousands of lives.  

[markx]

23 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

Who is asking you to give her points?  I'm not.  Daenerys went in as a conquerer and liberated the enslaved.  Their laws sucked and they were removed.  It's all well and good to claim the law is on your side when you are abusing others and depriving them of their liberty.  I say, fuck the law.  When its oppressive and corrupt, it needs to be reworked.  Daenerys reworked it.  Too bad that the high born had to carry their own water or pay someone to do it.  Cersei hasn't liberated anyone, but she certainly murdered countless innocents to get back at a few people when she had wildfire ignited under the sept.  Daenerys crucified people who were more than likely responsible for crucifying CHILDREN to make a point.  The dragon feeding incident was no worse than strapping a woman to a table for a monstrosity to violate repeatedly.  It was showing authority as the HMFIC.  In fact, what Cersei did was far more egregious.  And finally the Khalasar was destroyed because its leadership was crude, vulgar and threatened Daenerys's person repeatedly.   Her first impulse may be worrisome, but she has not acted on it yet.  Can you say that about her adversary? 

But isn't that the point - getting back to the conversation between Tyrion and Varys, they supported her as the liberator of the enslaved, not as someone who might destroy Kings Landing and risk large numbers of innocents dying, no matter how evil Cersei is.

As a viewer I'm looking forward to see a dragon blast Kings Landing, but I'm not surprised to see her advisers questioning things - and I saw it more as them favouring Jon, not Cersei.

[Popples]

[Drogo]

Just now, watchTV said:

We must not be watching the same show. Sansa went through some very rough and despicable experiences that has shaped who she is now.  Her family was mudered and she witnessed her good father's death. She was sold to a very abhorrent man who defiled her then killed her brother for amusement. That wasn't even the first time she was forced into marriage.

Truly Sansa is the only character who's suffered.

None of these things sound like something that happened to one or more other characters. 

[UNOSEZ]

5 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

She desperately wanted to take back WF so SHE could be safe. 

If she really, fully supported Jon, she would have told him she could call up the Knight of the Vale, and he could have delayed the attack for a day, and saved thousands of lives.  

To me that has been the only time I was ever really angry at Sansa that I didn't eventually forgive.. All the stuff in the early seasons.. Like being an ass to Jon and Arya I can chalk up to youth... Her siding with Joffery was selfish.. But she was a spoiled brat and everything after was stuff happening to her.. But not telling Jon about the Knights of the Vale... Im still pissed and confused by that

[Sakura12]

Everyone suddenly becoming dumb is the only way these writes could get their plot to work. They will continue to make stupid mistakes so Cersei will win, then she will be taken out in a gotcha attack.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, UNOSEZ said:

To me that has been the only time I was ever really angry at Sansa that I didn't eventually forgive.. All the stuff in the early seasons.. Like being an ass to Jon and Arya I can chalk up to youth... Her siding with Joffery was selfish.. But she was a spoiled brat and everything after was stuff happening to her.. But not telling Jon about the Knights of the Vale... Im still pissed and confused by that

You should be down on your knees thanking Sansa!  :)

[LadyPenelope]

Lena Headey and Emilia Clarke were both excellent this episode. I loved the scene where Cersei told Euron about her pregnancy - every time he was looking at her face she was smiling, and every time he looked away her face fell. Her reaction during Tyrion’s speech was also a lovely piece of acting. And Dany’s facial expressions over Jorah, and then Rhaegal and Missandei, were heartbreaking. 

[msrachelj]

13 hours ago, mjc570 said:

I love this show, but this episode was so boring and poorly written as to be almost unwatchable.  We don't get to see Sansa or Arya's reactions to Jon's parentage announcement; Jon doesn't even say good-by to Ghost (just rehomes him), it didn't occur to Daenerys to circle around Euron's fleet and burn the ships from the rear (all the dragon killer harpoons were facing front).  Bron's brief appearance was a huge let down.  All of these supposedly clever people just act so stupidly.  Tyrion doesn't understand his sister AT ALL. 

When Daenerys asks the perfectly reasonable question about how long the army needs to recover, Sansa could have actually answered ( a week, 2 weeks, whatever)  instead of just punting to some indefinite time.  No wonder Daenerys didn't listen to her perfectly reasonable suggestion.

I could go on with so much I disliked, which really arising from my high expectations.  I just hate that so much time is wasted (like the extended feasting) when there are only a few episodes left.  I did like a few things - Arya/Hound road trip, Bron not breaking Tyrion's nose. 

yes! have the dragon torch the ships from the rear! wtf was she thinking?! hubby and i both screamed at the tv. this show is killing me! this last season is way too short. 

[paigow]

27 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Just a dragon girl.. living in a Pentos world.. she took the Dothraki Sea going anywhere ♪

Just a bastard boy.. to the Wall he did deploy.. he hit the Kingsroad with thermal underwear ♫

When Tyrion was in the water, I thought David Chase broke into the editing suite for the falling mast - cut to black .......

[MissLucas]

I may be in the minority and it's not a major plot point but I was not okay with the Jaimie-Brienne hook-up. It felt OOC for both of them and it did feel like fan-service. That said what I found interesting was Jaimie listing all his crimes to Brienne. IIRC that makes Brienne the only person knowing what went down (oops!) with Bran who was not on the scene. It won't have any further ramifications but Jaimie making sure she knew THAT as well was really him trying to burn all bridges.

[Bannon]

12 minutes ago, LadyPenelope said:

Lena Headey and Emilia Clarke were both excellent this episode. I loved the scene where Cersei told Euron about her pregnancy - every time he was looking at her face she was smiling, and every time he looked away her face fell. Her reaction during Tyrion’s speech was also a lovely piece of acting. And Dany’s facial expressions over Jorah, and then Rhaegal and Missandei, were heartbreaking. 

Again, It is such a travesty that great work by actors is being joined to such a lazy, really insulting, effort by writers.

[Snowball II]

1 hour ago, tv-talk said:

Dany, Cersei, and Sansa are written so completely and utterly aloof that it's impossible for them to have a normal conversation with ANYONE not just the other women. At this point Arya is the only woman left on the show whom you could imagine saying something funny over an ale.

Gotta disagree with this.  Sansa wasn't aloof during the celebration, she was talking to other people, laughing, and daring Jon to drink from Tormund's cup.  Arya was outside, alone, shooting arrows.  I like Arya, but all the trauma she has been through has made her a lone wolf.  I really don't see her as the type to knock back a few and crack jokes, after she's made a big kill.  That's not her.

Dany sat by herself and drank, because she really doesn't belong in Westeros.  I felt bad, for her; after being told by Viserys her whole life that Westeros was her homeland, and how the people who lived there were her people, she's come to find that it's just not that simple.  She most definitely would have been happier if she had stayed in Essos and found herself a house with a red door, and a lemon tree, but since she feels that it is her destiny to rule, that was never going to happen.  That's why my heart hurt a little when she told Jon he had no idea what making his identity public would do, to him.  I couldn't help but feel like Dany was thinking about herself, there.  She knows this destiny, blood-of-the-dragon crap has shaped her entire life, and a tiny part of her is screaming to let go of it, so she can decide what she wants, and be happy.  Or, maybe that's just the way I interpreted it.  I think not being able to decide for themselves is a sad trait that both Dany and Jon share, they've always had some kind of duty to fulfill.  It's tragic.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Fiver

[Bannon]

20 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Everyone suddenly becoming dumb is the only way these writes could get their plot to work. They will continue to make stupid mistakes so Cersei will win, then she will be taken out in a gotcha attack.

It makes the prospect of a spin off series almost depressing.

[watchTV]

6 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

She desperately wanted to take back WF so SHE could be safe. 

If she really, fully supported Jon, she would have told him she could call up the Knight of the Vale, and he could have delayed the attack for a day, and saved thousands of lives.  

Sansa want to feel safe from the monster who defiled her and kidnap her little brother. Is that hard to understand? But Sansa told Jon they didn't have enough men and wanted to get more but Jon was adamant they go right away.  So Jon did. This is Jon's strength and weakness. He wants to do the right thing despite the circumstances. It is what got him killed.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, watchTV said:

Sansa want to feel safe from the monster who defiled her and kidnap her little brother. Is that hard to understand? But Sansa told Jon they didn't have enough men and wanted to get more but Jon was adamant they go right away.  So Jon did. This is Jon's strength and weakness. He wants to do the right thing despite the circumstances. It is what got him killed.

If Sansa had told him she could have reinforcements within a day, Jon would have waited, and they might have even been able to save Rickon.   Ramsay was a coward and if he thought he was going to lose and could trade Rickon for his life, he might have done so.    

I understand Sansa wanting to feel safe and be safe.  That is fine, but she didn't want to take WF for the Stark family.  She wanted it for her own reasons. 

The only time I can ever think of her doing anything for anyone else was when she told Joffrey he couldn't kill Ser Dontos on his name day, because it would be bad luck.   Even that might have been because she didn't want to watch the man get suffocated with wine.  

Edited May 6, 2019 by Bryce Lynch

[ShellsandCheese]

23 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Truly Sansa is the only character who's suffered.

None of these things sound like something that happened to one or more other characters. 

Thank you! I’m so sick of everyone excusing everything Sansa does because by saying she’s suffered. Everyone on this show has suffered, especially the women. 

Dany has no family, except for her brother. Who abused her and then sold her off to Khal Drogo. She was raped every night for who knows how long until she was able to take charge of a difficult situation. She lost her child and her husband. She spent her whole life running from assassins - she never really had a home. 

Honestly, her and Sansa aren’t that different. Dany wants the throne because she wants all of the suffering she’s had to endure and all that running she’s had to do just because of her name to count for something. I also think she is empathic and does relate to regular folks who get crushed under the wheels of power - because she was basically a victim the first two decades of her life. 

The real problem is that the writing and characterization of both of them now suck in order to fit whatever endgame narrative D&D thought of years ago. 

Also, Dany is totally an introvert and she has always withdrawn into herself when she’s uncomfortable. She her wedding to Khal Drogo and her initial uncomfortableness the second time she was at the Dosh Khaleen. 

Thats why a better ending to a Dany’s story would actually be her breaking her the wheel, coming to the realization that she doesn’t want to rule (and there have been plenty of hints) and the retiring somewhere but she won’t get the chance because she’s gotta go mad. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by ShellsandCheese

[MadameKillerB]

I think it fits Jaime's character arc to feel he will never get/doesn't deserve a happy ending so he might as well embrace the shitty parts of his nature. Sansa's parting shot made him realize he'd never be able to just stay in the North with Brienne.

My .02 on this episode:

why is the title The Last of the Starks? 

one of the worst-written episodes of the entire series

some cheesy acting from some good actors. What's up with that?!

Fuck Jon. Seriously. Poor Ghost.

The Rhaegal thing happened so fast. I barely had time to register what was happening. 

[ulkis]

2 minutes ago, Bannon said:

It makes the prospect of a spin off series almost depressing.

Isn't the spinoff animated? That'll prevent a lot of budget related storytelling issues. And also, they won't be writing and holding off on story beats because they're waiting for the author to finish the books, and then when it turns out he hasn't, cram as much as possible in the last two seasons.

[BooBear]

5 hours ago, paigow said:

Unless there is Vibranium around, the amount of armour required would change Drogon from a Ferrari to a Yugo...

I suspect one reason we don’t see Drogon in next weeks promos is that dany did get armor for him

[Growsonwalls]

Not for nothing but this feud between Dany and Sansa and also Cersei sort of reminds me of this course i took in college about females in the business world. The gist of it was that females are often excellent leaders and managers of their own domains, but have a harder time consolidating power. The road to the top for females in business is so rough that by the time they get there they have issues delegating duties.

Dany, Sansa, Cersei, Arya, and Brienne all have qualities that would make them good leaders. Dany has an ability to connect with the downtrodden and poor and marginalized of society. Sansa seems to be an excellent nuts and bolts kind of manager. Cersei is absolutely ruthless in her authority and use of power but hey sometimes you have to be. Arya is a great fighter, Brienne is loyal and good and keeps her word. If they worked together they could truly conquer the 7 realms. But of course they won;t.

[Bannon]

7 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Thank you! I’m so sick of everyone excusing everything Sansa does because by saying she’s suffered. Everyone on this show has suffered, especially the women. 

Dany has no family, except for her brother. Who abused her and then sold her off to Khal Drogo. She was raped every night for who knows how long until she was able to take charge of a difficult situation. She lost her child and her husband. She spent her whole life running from assassins - she never really had a home. 

Honestly, her and Sansa aren’t that different. Dany wants the throne because she wants all of the suffering she’s had to endure and all that running she’s had to do just because of her name to count for something. I also think she is empathic and does relate to regular folks who get crushed under the wheels of power - because she was basically a victim the first two decades of her life. 

The real problem is that the writing and characterization of both of them now suck in order to fit whatever endgame narrative D&D thought of years ago. 

I'm pretty sure that endgame narrative was thought up between the ninth and tenth whiskey, 10 minutes before last call, in the writers' favorite saloon.

[Cheezwiz]

7 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Dany, Sansa, Cersei, Arya, and Brienne all have qualities that would make them good leaders. Dany has an ability to connect with the downtrodden and poor and marginalized of society. Sansa seems to be an excellent nuts and bolts kind of manager. Cersei is absolutely ruthless in her authority and use of power but hey sometimes you have to be. Arya is a great fighter, Brienne is loyal and good and keeps her word. If they worked together they could truly conquer the 7 realms. But of course they won;t.

Goodness, wouldn't that be an amazing scenario? But yeah, not gonna happen sadly.

[terrymct]

16 minutes ago, Fiver said:

Dany sat by herself and drank, because she really doesn't belong in Westeros.  I felt bad, for her; after being told by Viserys her whole life that Westeros was her homeland, and how the people who lived there were her people, she's come to find that it's just not that simple.  She most definitely would have been happier if she had stayed in Essos and found herself a house with a red door, and a lemon tree, but since she feels that it is her destiny to rule, that was never going to happen.  That's why my heart hurt a little when she told Jon he had no idea what making his identity public would do, to him.  I couldn't help but feel like Dany was thinking about herself, there.  She knows this destiny, blood-of-the-dragon crap has shaped her entire life, and a tiny part of her is screaming to let go of it, so she can decide what she wants, and be happy.  Or, maybe that's just the way I interpreted it.  I think not being able to decide for themselves is a sad trait that both Dany and Jon share, they've always had some kind of duty to fulfill.  It's tragic.

Great points all around.  Will she be able to let go of the idea of sitting on the throne or even modify the image that was put in her head by her abusive brother?

[Bannon]

12 minutes ago, MadameKillerB said:

I think it fits Jaime's character arc to feel he will never get/doesn't deserve a happy ending so he might as well embrace the shitty parts of his nature. Sansa's parting shot made him realize he'd never be able to just stay in the North with Brienne.

My .02 on this episode:

why is the title The Last of the Starks? 

one of the worst-written episodes of the entire series

some cheesy acting from some good actors. What's up with that?!

Fuck Jon. Seriously. Poor Ghost.

The Rhaegal thing happened so fast. I barely had time to register what was happening. 

Previous to last night, my least favorite episode was "Beyond the Wall" due  to clunking plot mechanics of getting a dragon to the Night King, which was onviously the only reason for the episode.

That episode now looks like a precision built new Bentley, compared to the leaking, clanking, shuddering, wreck of a '79 Yugo that we watched last night.

[watchTV]

3 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

If Sansa had told him she could have reinforcements within a day, Jon would have waited, and they might have even been able to save Rickon.   Ramsay was a coward and if he thought he was going to lose and could trade Rickon for his life, he might have done so.    

Yes, the actions of these adult men were all her fault. She should have read Jon's and Ramsay's thoughts. How exactly would telling Jon change anything when he decided to go anyway? Knights of the Vale came on the day they fought; not a day later. Ramsay was on a power Trip having murdered his own father/baby brother and now the lone Bolton in charge. He had thousands more men even with Arryn's additional forces.

[Constantinople]

10 hours ago, Andromeda said:

I have always admired Varys' desire to stand up for the little people, but how is thrusting the realm into yet another civil war any way to do that (Jon vs. Dany)? And saying they shouldn't wed because she's stronger than Jon? That tells me Varys prefers a Jon because he sees him as a weak ruler he can manipulate.

I'm finding Varys's quest for perfection -- forgetting that perfection is the enemy of the good -- as much a danger to the realm as anything Dany has ever threatened.

And who elected Varys god?

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, Drogo said:

For those unfamiliar- that would be Carmine, Second of his Name of the House Lupertazzi. 

What a great throwback.

This is what Ser Jesse Pinkman would  have told Jon and Dany:

"Look- look, you two guys are just… guys, okay? Cersei... she's the devil. You know, she is- she is smarter than you, she is luckier than you. Whatever- Whatever you think is supposed to happen- I'm telling you, the exact reverse opposite of that is gonna happen, okay?"

[MVFrostsMyPie]

13 hours ago, Grumpymonkey said:

Got gypped on Arya's and Sansa's reaction to Jon, which sucked. But I was grateful there was a scene of the four of them because I don't think they'll see each other again. 

I wish we'd gotten some sort of goodbye scene (unless we did and I missed it). I mean obviously, Bran has the emotional depth of a tree stump, but I'd have liked to see the Stark girls and Jon fist bump or something. Maybe a convo between Jon and Arya about the NK and he could put to rest those stupid internet theories that she only got to the NK because Jonny screamed at a dragon. 😒 I need closure, damn it. But alas, they've got ravens speedier than text messages out in Westeros, so I guess that's how they'll keep in touch.

Out of all the gory deaths that have happened on this show, Rhaegal's was the first time I was like, "damn, that's bloody". Kudos to the show for making dragons look cute. My cat looked judgingly at me as I cheered on Rhaegal and his holy wing making a lopsided takeoff. "You can fly you can fly you can fly!" 

Those ships they've got must be some speedy mofos. The end felt so disjointed and rushed. Almost got whiplash from how fast Euron went from Dragonstone to KL. 

Bye Missandei. You had killer eyebrows until the end.

[watchTV]

38 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Truly Sansa is the only character who's suffered.

None of these things sound like something that happened to one or more other characters. 

Sansa isn't watching a show or seeing into the past like Bran. She is reacting in the moment based on her own personal experiences.

Also, this isn't some contest to see who suffered more. Of course they have all suffered even ultra villain Cersei. Nothing is more painful than losing a child. But losing all three?

[Constantinople]

10 hours ago, rmontro said:

Dany's always been a bit full of herself, but I think it was Tyrion who said you need a bit of ruthlessness to be a ruler.  Ned Stark was a good man, but his reluctance to play the game hurt him.  Jon is pretty much the same.  I've been pretty much resigned to Jon being on the Iron Throne at the end for several years now, but you're right it's bad writing to have everybody turn on Dany on a dime, out of nowhere.  Meanwhile, she's losing everyone and everything around her, it's hard to watch.

What makes it worse is that Varys was one of those who said Ned was too honorable to be a good Hand

Remember when Vary sand Tyrion were chatting in the episode before the Battle of Blackwater?

Quote

Varys: You're quite good at being Hand, you know? Jon Arryn and Ned Stark were good men. Honorable men. But they disdained the game and those who played. - You enjoy the game.

Tyrion: I do. Last thing I expected.

Varys: And you play it well.

Now Varys wants Ned Stark II: Electric Boogaloo on the throne?

Edited May 6, 2019 by Constantinople
"Ned was too honorable to get good Hand" has a dirty ring to it

[JennyMominFL]

1 minute ago, Constantinople said:

What makes it worse is that Varys was one of those who said Ned was too honorable to get  good Hand

Remember when Vary sand Tyrion were chatting in the episode before the Battle of Blackwater?

Now Varys wants Ned Stark II: Electric Boogaloo on the throne?

Jon would be a terrible king

[ShellsandCheese]

1 minute ago, Constantinople said:

What makes it worse is that Varys was one of those who said Ned was too honorable to get  good Hand

Remember when Vary sand Tyrion were chatting in the episode before the Battle of Blackwater?

Now Varys wants Ned Stark II: Electric Boogaloo on the throne?

This my point exactly! How is that Dany has both Varys and Tyrion but she continues to take big losses? Hmm. Why? Because it’s intentional. I’m started to feel like instead of the debates we are having about the show, we should all be talking about how and the writing is and how most of the things the characters have been doing since end of season five early season six haven’t made sense. 

[enoughcats]

38 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

I may be in the minority and it's not a major plot point but I was not okay with the Jaimie-Brienne hook-up. It felt OOC for both of them and it did feel like fan-service. That said what I found interesting was Jaimie listing all his crimes to Brienne. IIRC that makes Brienne the only person knowing what went down (oops!) with Bran who was not on the scene. It won't have any further ramifications but Jaimie making sure she knew THAT as well was really him trying to burn all bridges.

My mind got hung up on the "strangled my cousin".

I just don't remember that, much less which season it happened.

[Bannon]

17 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

This is what Ser Jesse Pinkman would  have told Jon and Dany:

"Look- look, you two guys are just… guys, okay? Cersei... she's the devil. You know, she is- she is smarter than you, she is luckier than you. Whatever- Whatever you think is supposed to happen- I'm telling you, the exact reverse opposite of that is gonna happen, okay?"

Ser Saul Goodman to Jon and Dany.....

"Look, let's start with some tough love, alright? Ready for this? Here it goes..you two suck at attacking Kings Landing. Period."

[ShellsandCheese]

5 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

Jon would be a terrible king

Varys wants Jon because Varys knows that Jon would be easily controlled. That’s also why Sansa wants Jon. Or at least she knows she’d always be able to get what she wanted. But can we all agree that at this point anyone would be better than Cersei, except for maybe Euron or Qyburn. 

[Blakeston]

I really hope we see more of Brienne in the final two episodes. If our farewell to the character is her weeping and literally begging a man to stay with her? Blech.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

4 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

My mind got hung up on the "strangled my cousin".

I just don't remember that, much less which season it happened.

That was either season 2 or 3. Jaime talked to this cousin of his that was thrown in the pen with him (Robb's council said they should just kill him, but Robb decided to keep him as a prisoner. Or maybe that was some other guy Robb didn't kill when they said he should have killed him). Anyway, he talked to his cousin for like a bazillion minutes about squiring and blah blah, then strangled him to get one of Robb's soldiers distracted enough to come inside, then killed that guy (who might have been the son of Lord Karstark I think?).

[Bryce Lynch]

7 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

My mind got hung up on the "strangled my cousin".

I just don't remember that, much less which season it happened.

He did it to try to escape from Robb Stark's camp back in an early season.  He used the killing as a distraction to get men to come into his enclosure.  I believe he then killed a Karstark son which led to the rift between Robb and the Karstarks.   

[Constantinople]

How was the plot device named Dany able to ferry her army from Dragonstone to Kings Landing without any intervention from the plot device named Euron and his invisible fleet?

[staphdude]

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't think she his having delusions.  Sansa, Tyrion and Varys are actively undermining her.  She just  lost her two best friends, half her troops and her 2nd child.

You aren't paranoid if people are really out to get you.   

Tyrion is a likable,  clever fool.  He would never be a good ruler. He has been a horrible adviser to Dany.  Sansa would turn into a mini Cersei with that power. 

Her delusion is that she is the one true saviour of the people and the realm.

On the personal front I agree there are lots of people who are undermining or are outright hostile to her...but that is the game she is playing.