S04.E12: The Eggplant, The Witch & The Wardrobe

[scarynikki12]

Quote

With darkness on the rise in 2019, the team realizes that a new host of problems have risen as they have been cleaning up history.

[scarynikki12]

Sara was not remotely phased by Nora’s presence on the ship. She’s all “great I need magical backup searching for Ava so let’s go.” 

Ava’s purgatory is IKEA. And Gary is of course there. 

Mona’s hair is super cute. 

I’m a broken record at this point but Des is sexy. 

I’ve watched too much Gotham cause I kept picturing their Tabitha every time her name was spoken. 

Mona, Charlie, and Mick trying to help Zari with Nate was entertaining. Still a no on that ship but I’ll take the other stuff. Bring back Sanjay and I’ll ship it. 

I loved Nora and Con teaming up. Her whole arc was great but that partnership was excellent. 

Of course Ray is being possessed by Neron. 

“Woman the ship.” Sisters! 

[janeta]

I want some large, carnivorous plat to pop up and eat Mona.

[Starfish35]

Oh they did not just do that. Ray! 😢

Much better episode than last week, although I could have done without the C (D?) plot (Charlie, Mona, and Mick give Zari advice on Nate).   For not being much of an Avalance shipper, I think they’ve handled this actually pretty well.  And I loved Nora’s double cross of Neron, though I suspected it was coming.  And Nate and Ray’s bromance was pretty adorable this episode.  But Ray!  No!  

Who is Tabitha?  Is that a name we’re supposed to know? I doubt we’ve heard the last of her, whoever/whatever she is.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Starfish35

[Sakura12]

That was probably the most boring episode of Legends yet. And that's saying something for this show. But that's probably because I don't care about Avalance or Nate and Zari. Or the stupid theme park idea. 

The only interesting parts where with John, Nora and Nueron.  And Ray getting possessed. 

Sara doesn't even get to do anything that doesn't involve Ava anymore. It's more noticeable since I got to see Sara actually do things on Arrow last week. 

Edited April 23, 2019 by Sakura12

[Lady Calypso]

Um...ok, I'm down with Neron possessing Ray, if only to get more Brandon Routh. 

So, Ava's worst nightmare is being trapped in a store. I mean, she IS a clone that has been created over and over like a product, so it makes sense.

Other than that, the Ava/Sara stuff wasn't bad. I just don't see either of them living a domestic lifestyle like Ava seems to want. I'd need to think about this, but I don't know whether I could see the series ending with a domesticated Sara/Ava. 

Nora/Constantine teaming up was great. I knew it was a ploy, but the payoff was great to watch, even if Ray ruined things.

Oh, Mona. I really hate you because you have sucked Zari into your boring romantic plot black hole. Zari really didn't need a romance arc to give Mona something to do, other than turning into a werewolf. Also, what bugs me is that we don't get nearly enough Charlie, a new character, OR Mick, an original series character. Sure, Mick got something to do here but the plot was dumb. Literally six minutes of Zari trying to send a middle school-esque text. What a waste of time. 

Meanwhile, Nate's family plot is so much better than Nate/Zari's budding romance. I mean, watching Nate struggle with his dad's death and trying to reconnect with who his father was and his legacy makes sense. We don't need him having a romance on top of this.

Ok....but seriously, I did like the episode. I've grown to love Constantine, I like Ava/Sara enough and there were some genuinely good moments.

[Starfish35]

11 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Other than that, the Ava/Sara stuff wasn't bad. I just don't see either of them living a domestic lifestyle like Ava seems to want. I'd need to think about this, but I don't know whether I could see the series ending with a domesticated Sara/Ava. 

11 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Sara doesn't even get to do anything that doesn't involve Ava anymore. It's more noticeable since I got to see Sara actually do things on Arrow last week. 

While I did think they handled the resolution of their fight in “Lucha De Apuestas” pretty well, I actually agree with both these points as well.  I’m not here for domesticated Sara, and I hope Ava eventually comes to accept that, since the show seems to be determined that they’re endgame.  And yes, Sara has had nothing substantial of her own that doesn’t involve Ava since season two, really.  And as a Sara fan, that’s frustrating.

Quote

what bugs me is that we don't get nearly enough Charlie, a new character, OR Mick, an original series character. Sure, Mick got something to do here but the plot was dumb. Literally six minutes of Zari trying to send a middle school-esque text. What a waste of time. 

Oh so much this.   Zari, Charlie, and Mick deserve so much better than this.  Come on, show.  You’re wasting some of your best characters on this.  

Edited April 23, 2019 by Starfish35

[bettername2come]

My personal purgatory would also be an IKEA, Ava. I feel ya.

I liked how they remember that these people are superheroes. When they had Nate actually call himself and Ray Steel and Atom, I knew that meant Nate would actually use his powers for once. I enjoyed hearing Sara and Zari refer to themselves as superheroes. 

The Nate and Ray friendship is beautiful. When Nate punched Ray, I was so scared he'd do it with a steel fist. The way Nate clutched Ray and touched foreheads afterward, I think he was scared of that too. 

Also, Nate has a type. Totem-bearing co-worker who he probably shouldn't date because she's from a different era and this could easily mess up the timeline. It's very specific. 

I liked the John and Nora stuff. Actually thought some of the earlier arguing outside the cell might've been an act too. I love that that wasn't Neron pretending to be Ray, but Ray not realizing he was possessed. 

1 minute ago, scarynikki12 said:

I’ve watched too much Gotham cause I kept picturing their Tabitha every time her name was spoken. 

Bewitched and Passions for me.

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Oh so much this.   Zari, Charlie, and Mick deserve so much better than this.  Come on, show.  You’re wasting some of your best characters on this.  

It's just so annoying. I'm hoping that the showrunners figure out what hasn't worked this season and get rid of the problems for next season (*ahem* Mona and Zari/Nate)

[raven]

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Oh, Mona. I really hate you because you have sucked Zari into your boring romantic plot black hole. Zari really didn't need a romance arc to give Mona something to do, other than turning into a werewolf. Also, what bugs me is that we don't get nearly enough Charlie, a new character, OR Mick, an original series character.

I agree so much with this.  I just can't stand Mona, every line of dialogue, every plot with her takes time away from the other characters.  Why is she here??? Why can't Charlie have more to do, or Mick?  There was already a large group without her.

Though I like both Zari and Nate, I'm not feeling the romance either.   Talking about romance, though I like Ava and Sara together, this ep may point in the direction of a mutual breakup.   If Ava wants long range, settled down plans, Sara may not be the woman for her.  If it's mutual and they can still work together (difficult but doable) I can see them breaking up.  I don't think the Legends lifestyle is one for a LTR.   Sara has found her place as Captain and sometimes I wonder if she thinks she should want the same things that Ava does.  Neither way is right or wrong but compatibility is the question.

The Nora/Constantine/demon story was good and I'm looking forward to possessed Ray.   I was so waiting for Nate to be Peter Quill and free the bad guy, but Ray messed it up.  Aw, Ray.

[shantown]

I liked Sara and Ava’s plot and it was an interesting way to have them address some relationship issues. I think Ava only wants the normalcy of life because she wants to feel like a real human. But she works at the Time Bureau for a reason, maybe she doesn’t crave adventure as much as Sara, but she needs something to keep life exciting and unpredictable too. 

I liked seeing Ray and Nate’s bromance, they make a good team. Ray didn’t even mind Nate spitting in his face! And we finally got to see Nate steel up again. I can’t even remember the last time he was steel. Too bad it wasn’t for an actual fight. 

Mona was annoying and unnecessary again. Why couldn’t it just have been Mick and Charlie giving Zari advice? If we have to have a Nate/Zari romance, at least make it bearable to watch. Zari and Mick and Zari and Charlie both have such a good dynamic I would have loved to see the three of them together playing off each other. There was just not enough Mick or Charlie as usual. (I would really like to see a comparison of screen time among characters. Mona annoys the hell out of me, and I’d like to see if it’s because she’s just always butting in like it seems or if she’s just so annoying that 5 minutes of her seems like an eternity. Save us from this purgatory, Constantine!)

Ray, Nora, and Constantine was another good trio. This show does well at pairing up different characters, but they also are good at developing trio dynamics. Constantine, Nora, and Sara was another one. That’s the work of amazing writers that can make characters interact to believably in a show full of such unbelievable moments.

[Sakura12]

3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

While I did think they handled the resolution of their fight in “Lucha De Apuestas” pretty well, I actually agree with both these points as well.  I’m not here for domesticated Sara, and I hope Ava eventually comes to accept that, since the show seems to be determined that they’re endgame.  And yes, Sara had nothing substantial of her own that doesn’t involve Ava since season two, really.  And as a Sara fan, that’s frustrating.

Sara at least got to have some fight scenes and actually lead her team in Season 3. This season she gives some orders to her team then goes to see Ava. Then when she's with her team she's thinking about Ava. I miss Captain Sara. I also miss Mick. He gets even less to do but at least he a storyline for him with his novels. Sara doesn't have a storyline, she's just there for Ava. 

Now even Ray's getting a storyline by being possessed by a demon. 

[johntfs]

I liked Mona coming up with "Natari" because of course she would.  I'm kind of psyched for Ray being possessed by Neron.  Brandon Routh gave really good bad guy on Chuck.

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I also miss Mick. He gets even less to do but at least he a storyline for him with his novels. Sara doesn't have a storyline, she's just there for Ava. 

I wouldn't call Mick's novels a storyline. It's a trait that he has and he's had one episode where it was really utilized, but other than that, Mick's had nothing to do in a long time. His last real storyline was season 1, honestly. He's had very little to do since then. 

Sara has a storyline....it just has to do with her love life, but it IS a storyline. Poor Mick doesn't even get a real love interest (I honestly don't count his novel lady since she's not real). 

[Sakura12]

3 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I wouldn't call Mick's novels a storyline. It's a trait that he has and he's had one episode where it was really utilized, but other than that, Mick's had nothing to do in a long time. His last real storyline was season 1, honestly. He's had very little to do since then. 

Sara has a storyline....it just has to do with her love life, but it IS a storyline. Poor Mick doesn't even get a real love interest (I honestly don't count his novel lady since she's not real). 

Sara's storyline seems more like it's Ava's storyline that involves Sara. Sara's pretty much disappeared into being Ava's girlfriend. 

Having this air after Game of Thrones is probably going to make me more critical of it since my mind will still on be on that show. 

Edited April 23, 2019 by Sakura12

[Lady Calypso]

Just now, Sakura12 said:

Sara's storyline seems more like it's Ava's storyline that involves Sara. 

I would say it's partially Sara's as well. She got to voice her concerns about what Ava wants vs what she wants. She got to talk about how she feels about potentially settling down with Ava. I think this episode had Sara partially in purgatory dealing with her own stuff with Ava. It's not ideal but at least Sara has SOMETHING. 

[raven]

Yeah, it seems lately like Mick shows up, makes some snarky comments and that's about it. 

I don't want Sara's story to be all about her relationship either but I can see why there's a focus on it this season, since Ava and Sara have committed to each other and are exploring that.   I don't want that to be it for either of them - I like Ava too and think her leadership style makes a nice counterpart to Sara's.

I was so frustrated in The Getaway because we were stuck with Mona; Charlie was sidelined in what was a fun ep but could have been so much better if we had the focus on anyone but Mona.

[jay741982]

It really sucks that Zari gets wasted worrying about stupid High school things regarding Nate cause Hes a Pet Character of Phil Klemmer who has to have a girlfriend in every season, has to bang another Co worker meanwhile Klemmer says in a recent interwiew that he doesnt feel like Ray/Nora would be a good fit but his forced pairing of "Natari" is even though it only came about from Zari pretending to be his GF. Guess Nate is just so awesome and a Lady killer SMH. 

Edited April 23, 2019 by jay741982

[Lantern7]

Possible true measure for love: Ava and Sara have seen themselves as kids, they've seen themselves as old ladies. I'm seriously hope they last . . . and I really hope that doesn't make me sound like Gary. I mean, how can Mona be the worst thing if Gary keeps popping up?

After last week, I had thought Hank wasn't really building a Jurassic Mythical Creature Park. Nope . . . he totally was. With an awesome arch and everything. Could there be such a thing as something too messed-up for this series? Demons, time travel, complicated relationships, the occasional reference to a Furby knockoff that saved the day last finale . . .  but Nate getting a dragon enclave built? Too much for me. And it looked to be too much for Nate to handle

Of course Ava's purgatory would basically be an IKEA. And it's natural for Sara to not think too deep into her future. Considering all she's been through (including being dead for an entire year), I can't blame her

Of course the team would nab Neron, and -- of course -- that would backfire. Possessing Ray? Cute twist. On the bright side, I'm happy that he and Nate are bonding again. Why should Nate punching Ray in the face get in the way of that?

Zari plot? Meh. I was okay with it, and Mick is good for non-annoying comic relief (lookin' at you, Gary), but I'd like to see him set people on fire. Or at least punch someone. Nate did "Steel" up to stop a wrecking ball, so at least we had that.

[Cthulhudrew]

My worst fears about this whole Zari/Nate storyline have manifested in Zari being completely wasted in an entire B plot of her character failing the Bechdel test.

[Maelstrom]

Slightly better than the previous three episodes but still far short of what I’ve generally come to expect from this show. Four dud episodes is too many in a season of 16.

Hell Yes:

• Hell as a giant retail store you can’t leave.
• Darkh and Constantine, Magical Asskickers. I would totally watch a show about the two of them as magical bounty hunters/PIs.
• Ray being adorable (is it wrong I’m almost looking forward to DemonRay to see Brandon’s performance? As long as it’s only temporary, of course).
• Charlie’s braids

Hell Fucking No:

• The return of Nate’s manpain
• Nate and Zari
• Zari spending the entire episode worrying about sending a text to her crush. Seriously, WTF was that shit? How can a show that’s done so well with its female characters suddenly pull shit like this and think it’s a good idea?
• Mona. She’s taking way too much screentime away from other, more interesting characters. Why the hell did they have to make her a Legend? Nora has more history with the team, and in the Flarrowverse in general, why not have her join? Hell, I’d rather have seen Gary get promoted to Legend than a total newbie like Mona. Or hot Des. Fail, writers. 100% fail.
• Heyworld. They’ve finally found something too ridiculous even for this show.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Maelstrom

[Proteus]

Definitely my favorite episode of the season. I loved the Sara/Ava stuff and I am glad they are back together officially. I didn't see anything negative or pointing to something bad for their future. That episode really made me feel they are endgame. I am glad they resolved the biggest issue I had, what Ava said about the creatures was just said in anger.

I kept waiting to see who Neron would take over. I'm surprised it was Ray.

Im shocked Desmond is alive. I am glad he and Constantine broke up. I don't want Constantine to leave the show.

Courtney Ford was really good this episode.

I wonder if Nate will eventually leave to run Heyworld.

I am sad to see that Zari has become the new Amaya where her whole story revolves around Nate.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Proteus

[thuganomics85]

The Constantine/Nora team up was definitely my favorite part of the episode, and I liked that the show brought back up their, err, "complicated" history.  Even though it was all an act at the end, I have to imagine Nora's anger is real and Constantine is sincere over not abandoning her again.  I'm also glad that Desmond got freed, although I think it is realistic that he will never be able to forgive Constantine for what he did.

While I'm still not a huge fan of Sara/Ava (admittedly because part of me will always hold onto a small flame for Sara/Nyssa), I did like how Ava's purgatory ended up being expressions of her doubts over a relationship with Sara, and the issues that will plague them.  While I'm glad it is more out in the open now, I do think the two will always struggle with having anything resembling a domestic life, and I wonder if that is an obstacle they can overcome.

Nate/Ray continue to be the best, complete with Nate automatically apologizing when he realized he punched Ray in anger and Ray automatically forgiving him.  Oh, you two!

Sadly, the Zari subplot was a complete waste of Tala Ashe's talents, and it certainly wasn't helped by Mona being even more obnoxious than normal.  Even Charlie's snark and Mick busting out his writing skills again couldn't save it.  The idea of Nate/Zari and the insertion of Mona really has downgraded these past few episodes.

Neron has possessed Ray!  Poor Ray!  Although, I'm looking forward to seeing how Brandon Routh plays this next week (and more?), since I think he'll be good at it.

[Jediknight]

Who wants to bet that a Neron possessed Ray will still be incredibly polite?  He'll threaten to destroy the world, but only if nobody has any objections, and only after the dishes are done.

One reason to love Legends is Nate finding out that Nora was on the Waverider, and his response to Ray saying she was innocent.  He wasn't pissed, and believed Ray.  They didn't drag it out, because Nate does know his dad made a deal, and it's Ray, he wouldn't let Nora stay on the Waverider unless he was 100% sure that she was innocent.  Hell, I loved everybody's response to Nora being on the ship being "Yeah, whatever, we've got shit to get done."

We also got to see more of Gary actually being liked.  Constantine may have been somewhat annoyed, but he completely trusted Gary to look over Ava and Sara.  Also, that in Ava's purgatory, it was Gary that was giving them advice.

And we got another moment of Mick being a good writer.  We gotta have an episode where Mick sees how big of a writer he's become.  It was established in The Flash, that it's known that he's Rebecca Silver, even Nora West-Allen's a fan.

[Sakura12]

I don't think Sara and Ava even worked out their issues. They just talked about them an never really dealt with them. Sara still isn't ready for the domestic life and would probably never be happy like that. Since she was 19 she's been living in a dangerous adventure. She can't just stop and start doing dishes and chores. We always see Sara trying to placate Ava and change for Ava. It seems more like Ava can't accept Sara as is. And that is not explored. 

Edited April 23, 2019 by Sakura12

[Writing Wrongs]

10 hours ago, bettername2come said:

The way Nate clutched Ray and touched foreheads afterward, I think he was scared of that too. 

Just like the way rabbits do to apologize. Sorry, I watched Peter Rabbit this weekend.

[darkestboy]

Strongest episode since the show's return.

Ava's purgatory being an IKEA makes sense for her character and while the analogies with her and Sara were predictable, they were also executed rather well too. Nice to see the two of them on side again.

Loved the Constantine and Nora team up against Neron and it's great that Desmond is alive, even if he's mad at John.

Ray getting taken over by Neron should be interesting for the next few episodes. I wonder who will end up being Tabitha's vessel now. Nora probably.

The amusement park bit, still keen not on and the Zari/Nate romance plot did feel a bit cartoonish this week with the love advice bits from Mona, Charlie and Mick, 8/10

[cambridgeguy]

Hey, the show remembered that Zari has powers even if she didn't use them!  Aside from providing some dramatic wind in the trailer for the show's return when was the last time she used them?  Because airbending is an incredibly useful and powerful skill set.

I still don't know what the point of Mona is.  Did this show really need an annoyingly perky optimist hanging around?  Doesn't Ray fill that niche without acting like a teenage girl?  Gary also does that too.

[MarkHB]

I'm afraid I can't sympathize with IKEA as purgatory, because the closest one to me is 120 miles away (on the other side of a major city), I've only been there once and only had time to eat Swedish meatballs before closing (priorities!), so I've got a case of IKEA envy.

14 hours ago, bettername2come said:

Bewitched and Passions for me.

I was thinking along similar lines:

• Bronze medal if Tabitha is played by Juliet Mills
• Silver medal for Lisa Hartman
• Gold medal with an olive wreath and I fall off the couch if it's Erin Murphy.

[Lugal]

Better than the previous ones, but still not as good as the first half.  IKEA is actually the perfect metaphor for the show now.  All the parts are there, but they aren't put together (or put together wrong).

Sara and Ava finally resolved their issues, and their purgatory is a giant retail store you can never leave.  I've had nightmares about that.  It was cool enough to see them get back on track, but I'm not feeling this really one way or another.

Gary shows how to use an over the top character in just about the right amount.  And as opposed to Mona, Gary is always a supporting player in someone else (usually Ava's) story, as opposed to making everyone else a supporting player in Mona's.  She's getting more annoying and she sits way to close to people when she talks to them.

Nora and Constantine were easily the strongest part of the episode, and I would also watch them as magical asskickers for hire.  Although now that Neron has possessed Ray, I wonder if he can't just take the jumpship to the future pick up another Ava clone as the vessel for Tabitha and then replace Ava with her at the Time Bureau.  None of the rest of the crew seems to notice when Ray's not around anyway.

7 hours ago, Jediknight said:

He'll threaten to destroy the world, but only if nobody has any objections, and only after the dishes are done.

Maybe that will clue the Legends in that something's off with Ray, when the dishes start piling up.  I seem to recall that's how they noticed he was missing once before.

I think Heyworld doesn't work because we saw no hints of this in Hank up until last week.  He was a hardass by-the-numbers military type.  There was no indication that he would be the type to build a magical amusement park.  This definitely feels like a last minute "He's not the villain anymore now what do we do with him?" plot.  And they're going off Nate's childhood drawings for the building plans?  It all feels very last minute.

And then there's the Zari-Nate Romance plot...  You're wasting Tala Ashe with this?  Your strongest performer and one of your most interesting characters has been subsumed into a middle school romance as she hangs out with ever more annoying Mona and the equally wasted Charlie/Maisie Richardson-Sellers.  At least Nate gets other stuff like deal with his father and have scenes with Ray.  Mick (who also hasn't had much to do) probably wrote the text just to shut them all up.

[tennisgurl]

No, sweet baby Ray! As much as I dont want bad things for Ray, I am pretty psyched about Brandon getting to play evil, as I've seen him do it before, and he is surprisingly good at it. Nora is gonna raise literal Hell when she wakes up and sees what that demon is doing with her future boyfriend!

Good episode, for the most part, the A and B plots were both really good I thought. Nora and Constatine are a great duo, I love their combination of angst and attempts at doing the right thing. That whole plot was really great, even if poor Ray did screw things up near the end by accident. This is why you let everyone know the plan, guys! 

I am still not a super huge Ava/Sara fan, but this was a pretty good episode for them, and is at least a launching pad for them to talk about their issues. I mean, I think that Ava really wants something more domestic than Sara is into (at least for now) but at least they seem to be more on the same page now, and Ava admitted that she isnt actually cool with torturing people. Purgatory as IKEA was a delightfully Legends twist, especially with the mass of different Ava's (Ava and her clone backstory is honestly one of the more interesting things about her, so I was glad it was brought up again) and I love subconscious Gary. 

Speaking of, I really like how they normally use Gary, just the right amount, usually as comic relief in someone elses story, as kind of a way meaning goober in the background, never taking too much screen time, just adding some fun to different subplots. Its kind of the opposite of Mona. I dont HATE Mona, but I have no idea why she gets to fully join the Legends crew when she really doesent seem to add much beyond complaining, and being goofy comic relief. Thats fine if your just a minor or supporting character, like Gary, but if they keep pushing her as a main character, sucking other characters into comic relief purgatory? Its just a waste of time, especially with so many more interesting characters being underused, and so many more interesting plots going on. She should have just gone to ancient Hawaii with her boyfriend, that would have been a fine ending for her if they are THAT committed to her. I mean, is the actress friends with someone who works on the show or something?

I love Ray and Nate hanging out, especially when Nate punched Ray and was horrified instantly, and they touched foreheads and Ray got it immediately. I also appreciate that Nate believed Ray right away about Nora, and there wasnt as much drama as I thought there would be. Such good bros. I do like Nate trying to reconnect with her father, but i dont buy this whole Hayworld thing at all. It seems terribly out of character for Hank as we knew him, and seems to be more a case of the writers originally planning on making him be evil, than deciding against it and doing something random instead. I mean, this still isnt a great thing for him to do, especially if a lot of these creatures are sentient. Sticking sentient beings into a zoo is still super creepy. 

Zari and Nate...are still a thing apparently?

[shantown]

I have to gush about Nora some more. That line to Neron about how she won't be his victim because she has power of her own? BAD. ASS. I hope Courtney Ford sticks around next season, even if magic isn't the focus (Gosh, I HOPE magic isn't the focus again). Nora is a cool character and they could do a lot with her I think. And a bonus - she doesn't require a supersuit so they save money on special effects! 

(Honestly I'm a little salty that we rarely see anyone using their powers anymore, and extremely salty that we've had to suffer through like three of Mona's "wolfie" transformations)

[jhlipton]

20 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

My worst fears about this whole Zari/Nate storyline have manifested in Zari being completely wasted in an entire B plot of her character failing the Bechdel test.

Especially since they lampshaded the test last episode (when it made sense for it to be failed).

15 hours ago, Jediknight said:

Also, that in Ava's purgatory, it was Gary that was giving them advice.

Ava said she has "issues" with Gary.  LOL

[DearEvette]

Oof.  Did not like this episode.

Actually, I liked Nora/Constantine & Ray and Ray's fate.  Also Gary.  He made me smile. 

But everything else was meh.

I have been indifferent to Sara/Ava so their relationship woes are uninteresting to me. I just kept zoning out on their parts.

I am sad that they brought back Maisie just to metaphorically put her in a corner.  She has like, what two lines an episode?

Ditto Mick.

And don't even get me started on this Nate/Zari romance.  It went from being non-existent to having Zari having tween like moments with Mona.  Just...no.

[benteen]

This was probably the weakest episode of the year but I thought it had a strong finish and I enjoyed it.

-I like Sara and Ava's relationship although I agree, I don't want to see them live a normal life.  Characters on TV strive for this but a normal life on TV is boring.

-Just no with Mona.  I cringe with every line of dialogue she delivers.

-I enjoyed the Nate/Ray interaction this week.

-You can do better with Zari then having her spend an entire episode acting like a schoolgirl with a crush.

-Creepy Gary and the reactions to him always make me laugh.

-I definitely hope Courtney Ford hangs around next season. 

[Bruinsfan]

I agree with all your points except about Creepy Gary. A little of him goes a long way with me, though I don't object to his existence in principle as much as Mona's. In general I don't like how most shows portray their nerdy/geeky characters that come off as caricatures of the audience demo. It feels like biting the hand that feeds you.

[immortalfrieza]

Well, last episode I saw that musical number with that Hindu god guy whose name escapes me right now and my thought was "Music Meister this guy ain't."

It's almost like my brain could see into the future, because when Music Meister showed up in a Flash/Supergirl crossover show it was for the sake of abruptly getting the main couples of both shows together after they had broken up for incredibly stupid reasons. The Sara/Ava plot definitely from the start I had the feeling that it existed for the same purpose, getting Sara and Ava back together, but this one was a LOT more sensible in it's approach. Through Ava's torments it took a look at each aspect of Sara and Ava's potential future together and had the two plot a course through them. That said, I was surprised that Ava's personal purgatory didn't have a Fake Sara or two tormenting her, that would have made things more interesting. Besides, who wouldn't want to see a Sara Vs. Sara fight?

The rest of the episode... Nora and Constanine's plan to destroy Neron was predictable once it started, but it was a smart one and just believable enough I could buy Neron falling for it. Naturally nobody decided to tell Ray what was going on so he could ruin said plan and keep the villain around for the rest of the season, but hey.

I'm just shouting into an echo chamber with this. I don't hate Mona but this episode was when she started to grate, egging Zari on with the ridiculous Nate/Zari relationship plot, as though it's not possible for male and female characters who happen to not be in a relationship already to just... stay not in a relationship and have to hook up.

On that note, I haven't particularly noticed or cared up until now because he's hilarious, but when's the last time Mick actually DID anything? The last time I can remember that Mick actually contributed to the plot in any way and didn't just sit around stuffing his face and making snarky comments was that giant squid episode.

[Featherhat]

I also don't get the sudden Nate/Zari plot. It's as stupid and abrupt as Nate and Amaya hooking up during a mission due to the "take off our clothes because we got wet and cuddle" trope. Just why? And we get a lot of juvenile ship name debates. I'd say they wee mocking shippers but apparently PK likes them together and the ep had Sara and Ava running around Ikea to solve their relationship problems. Nate is so much better when he's not in a relationship and I now like the bromance between him and Ray (who can never catch a break).

I wish Sara had pointed out she had also been to purgatory (Lian Yu) before. I don't hate them together but I do hate that it has become Sara's primary plot. And I don't think they addressed many of their actual issues.

I still don't understand why Mona is needed  she's already had several eps focused on her and for be she's dragging down the show whilst Charlie and Mick are barely used. What was the point of keeping Maisie on again?

Liked Constantine and Nora's plot, nice call back to Nora remembering the events of Daddy Darhkest.

It's frustrating because I wanted to love an episode with that title.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 4/23/2019 at 12:32 PM, Lugal said:

Although now that Neron has possessed Ray, I wonder if he can't just take the jumpship to the future pick up another Ava clone as the vessel for Tabitha and then replace Ava with her at the Time Bureau.  None of the rest of the crew seems to notice when Ray's not around anyway.

How did no one notice that Ava hadn't been at work for 2 weeks?

[Proteus]

21 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

How did no one notice that Ava hadn't been at work for 2 weeks?

Hank said she was taking time off.

[MarkHB]

I shall proclaim an Epic Fail if Tabitha shows up and is not portrayed by Lisa Hartman or Erin Murphy (Juliet Mills has passed the statutory age limit for appearing on The CW).