S08.E02: A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms

[MisterBluxom]

6 hours ago, Machiabelly said:

So if enough of the right people die, Arya and Gendry can jointly rule as the rightful heirs to the throne. I would be OK with that. 

I would also be OK with Ayra killing Cersei while wearing Neds face somehow. 

How about Joffrey's face? Good for a laff?

[RedHawk]

8 hours ago, EverettO said:

Early prediction... next week’s episode is all about King’s Landing because the producers are THAT CRUEL! 

I have been thinking this since 9:59 last night. I am mentally preparing myself that we will futz around KL and the Iron Islands for the entire episode next week. 

Not that likely, but frustratingly possible. 

[DrSparkles]

2 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

I have been thinking this since 9:59 last night. I am mentally preparing myself that we will futz around KL and the Iron Islands for the entire episode next week. 

Not that likely, but frustratingly possible. 

I worry about this too, but didn't the previews show a battle?

[Bali]

10 hours ago, aprilbabe said:

Am I the only one who doesn't see Danerys as having mad queen tendencies. 

I don't think she does. She is a little tiny woman. The Tarley's were awful beings who betrayed Olenna Tyrell. Not only did they betray her, they openly declared that they were betraying her. Dickon was a jerk who just followed his daddy because he never had an original thought in his head.

She loves Jon. Jon loves her. He told her because some couples are truthful with each other. Let's face it here, he just undercut her whole reason for surviving the crap she has survived. She was supposed to rule. (I can get through walking though fire and having my clothes burned off because I have a higher purpose. I can stand here in front of these people necked because I have a higher purpose.)

I actually think Danerys is fairly level headed all things considered.

[MissLucas]

3 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I just want to put this out there and expect it to be a really unpopular thought-but what if the northern girls weren't racist as much as "stranger-dangerist"?  The environment is quite tense as everyone is preparing for war, two armies that are allied with Winterfell just entered and there are dragons flying around.  All of the northerners are experiencing things they never even imagined before-and then two of the strangers (one of which is in military uniform) enter into a fairly secluded area where the two young frightened girls are hiding out.  Maybe it's more that there are unknown adults (one of whom belongs to an army other than a northern army) near to them and they are just scared of everything.  Yes, the scene reads as racist, but I would like to give the very young girls the benefit of doubt if it's at all possible.

That scene was the only one that rang wrong for me. We know the Northerners can be xenophobic we saw that in early seasons when it came to the Wildlings. But the mindset implied in the scene 'you creep us out because you're dark-skinned and we can't see beyond that prejudice that you're a sweet lady' did not work for me. The kids being intimidated by Dothraki or one of the Unsullied: maybe but even then more due to their fierce demeanor and some perceived 'strangeness' and less because of the color of their skin. But Missandei? We've never seen anybody having issues with her or Grey Worm's skin color before - that came out of left field. IIRC the color of your skin was never an issue on this show before (in-show I mean, I do remember the white-savior discussions). If people despise you it's because you belong to the 'wrong' clan/family/territory/religion.

Edited April 22, 2019 by MissLucas

[Constantinople]

11 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Please don't let Missandei and Grey Worm die

Please don't let Missandei and Grey Worm die

Please don't let Missandei and Grey Worm die

11 hours ago, SimoneS said:

In that foreign land, fighting those for those racists and xenophobes.

Racists and xenophobes?

They're just economically distressed and want to make Winterfell great again

[Drogo]

20 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Any dispute between the Starks and the Lannisters was no business of his, nor should he have abandoned the Kingsguard to join the Lannister army.

Jamie was kicked out of the Kingsguard and assigned to command the Lannister army after Tommen converted to Sparrowism.

[paigow]

5 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

I have been thinking this since 9:59 last night. I am mentally preparing myself that we will futz around KL

20,000 horny Golden Company sellswords fighting over local prostitutes.... 

[terrymct]

8 hours ago, millennium said:

Has everyone at Winterfell forgotten the enemy has a dragon now?   I didn't hear a word about strategy to defend Winterfell from the ice dragon -- or for that matter how to prevent the other two dragons from suffering the same fate as their fallen sibling.  Jon's big lecture -- they don't tire, they don't die, etc. -- made no mention that a dragon was even part of the equation. 

Did you notice that the Night King wasn't in the row of White Walkers in the closing scene?   If I was the Night King, I would send the army to Winterfell for a battle as expected, while I hop on my zombie dragon and fly down the coast to squirt some icy dragon blue fire on Kings Landing.   We still have to get to the point from the vision where the Kings Landing throne room looks both burned and frosty.

[paigow]

35 minutes ago, Drogo said:

The only problem I have with Arya's sex scene is that her face afterwards was very mehh/disappointed. 

I guess due to 7 seasons of building it up in her head.

Or she heard somebody talking about Podrick.....

[Constantinople]

8 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Jamie was kicked out of the Kingsguard and assigned to command the Lannister army after Tommen converted to Sparrowism.

That was in Season 6.

Jaimie was still in the Kingsguard in Season 1 when he attacked Ned in the streets of King's Landing and then fled to join the Lannister army

[kieyra]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

It is telling how we are more comfortable with violence then sex.

Dany and Sansa were younger when they forced into marriages and raped. Arya's an adult and got to choose a partner she likes. She's the lucky one.

Yes her decision was because she could die, I would think most people would make the same decision if you had the knowledge that you might not live to see another day. I was surprised she was the only one. 

I was one of the posters who felt weirded out. I explicitly said it was because she looks 'twelve' to me. As in pre-pubescent (or barely pubescent).  It's not due to internalized misogyny or sexual repression, at least not for me. 

[Bali]

10 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I have NO idea where I read this but I read somewhere that a lot of people were getting the wrong idea about huskies (that they're really fierce and protective, when they're actually goofy family dogs) from seeing the Direwolves, so they limited their screen time. Am I just imagining that?

No. Peter Dinklage even put out a PSA asking people to stop buying huskies without researching them first. And he reminded them that they are NOT Direwolves. A lot of huskies wound up in shelters.

[Constantinople]

Am I the only one who thought the Walkers looked creepily Targaryen like, in particular like Rhaegar and Viserys, in the ending shot when we see them from behind?

[millennium]

8 minutes ago, kieyra said:

I was one of the posters who felt weirded out. I explicitly said it was because she looks 'twelve' to me. As in pre-pubescent (or barely pubescent).  It's not due to internalized misogyny or sexual repression, at least not for me. 

It seemed even the show felt awkward to some extent, as Arya's breasts were conspicuously kept off camera, a rarity in the Seven Kingdoms.

I hate this episode even more in the cold light of day.   Can't believe that one third of the final season has been squandered on treacly fan service, without any memorable action or characteristic plot twists.    How could this team fuck it up so bad in the final stretch?   Even if the next four episodes are great (and I have no faith in that now) it can never erase the bad taste of the last two.

Edited April 22, 2019 by millennium

[terrymct]

19 minutes ago, Bali said:

I actually think Danerys is fairly level headed all things considered.

Level headed, but single minded and inexperienced with regard to Westeros.  She knows she wants the throne and everyone to bend the knee to her, but she doesn't know much else or hasn't tried to think various options through.

[MissLucas]

4 minutes ago, Bali said:

No. Peter Dinklage even put out a PSA asking people to stop buying huskies without researching them first. And he reminded them that they are NOT Direwolves. A lot of huskies wound up in shelters.

Sheesh, the same happened with white owls after Harry Potter. 

[Drogo]

Just now, Constantinople said:

Am I the only one who thought the Walkers looked creepily Targaryen like, in particular like Rhaegar and Viserys, in the ending shot when we see them from behind?

They always remind me of the Sloth victim from Se7en. 

I need to get over it before next week. 

7 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

That was in Season 6.

Jaimie was still in the Kingsguard in Season 1 when he attacked Ned in the streets of King's Landing and then fled to join the Lannister army

You're right.  I think my mind has suppressed memories of DickJaime from S1.

Just now, terrymct said:

Level headed, but single minded and inexperienced with regard to Westeros.  She knows she wants the throne and everyone to bend the knee to her, but she doesn't know much else or hasn't tried to think various options through.

Both Jon and Daenerys are trying to accept new information about facts they have always believed about themselves.  Their current identities are both deeply rooted in their origins, which seemed to be 100% established but are now peppered with question marks.  It makes sense that neither is coping with it perfectly.   

[LadyChaos]

Personally, I don't think that Jon was trying to be all:  'we're about to die tomorrow so I thought I should tell you Im actually the heir to the Iron throne because I'm a legit Targ'

I think he was putting it off, I think he didn't want to believe it and was hoping to deny it a little longer.  However, when she found him down there, looking at Lyanna's statue, he had just accepted it as truth.  So, he looked at the woman he loved, and knew that she had a right to know.  Not because he usurped her claim to the throne, but because she wasn't the last of her line, she wasn't alone anymore.  She had family.  Family is something that was always important to Jon, and Dany has told him that she is the last of her line.  For him it was more of a 'We might die tomorrow so I want you to know this because I don't want to share this burden alone and I love you, AND I want you to know that you are not alone' 

After, she brought up about the throne, the look on his face is feels like all 'Is that all you care about?' kind of look. 

[AttackTurtle]

I feel like Jamie, Tyrion, The Hound, Danny, Sansa, Arya, and Jon are safe thru Episode 3.   The rest are really in trouble. I see Brienne dying in Jamie’s arms.  No way is his story with Cersei over.  Just like the Hound needs to see the Mountain.   

But surely there need to be more than the  above that make it.   They have three more episodes to fill up. 

The only one I feel certain is dead is Theon.  Dany without Jorah/Millisandre/Grey Worm is hard to fathom, but she may just lose them all.  Just like I can’t see Vary’s not in the mix for the political mess to come.

I think Jon told Dany the truth because he  needed to tell someone and he knew that the only person it could affect more than him is her.  Once Sansa and company find out, they’re going to insist that he is entitled to the throne.  Rather, Dany hear it from him than someone else.  

I really need to watch this episode again.

[Bali]

8 hours ago, millennium said:

Has everyone at Winterfell forgotten the enemy has a dragon now?   I didn't hear a word about strategy to defend Winterfell from the ice dragon -- or for that matter how to prevent the other two dragons from suffering the same fate as their fallen sibling.  Jon's big lecture -- they don't tire, they don't die, etc. -- made no mention that a dragon was even part of the equation. 

Not only this but here's where I wish I had been in the war room. They decide that the safest place for the weak and unarmed is in the crypts? REALLY? Excuse me. Excuse me. But the enemy reanimates the dead. So why are we keeping the weak and unarmed where we also keep the dead people? I think everyone in the crypts is dead. Then undead Tyrion walks to Westeros and kills Cersei.

I also think that Varys the spider is the traitor in Camp Danerys.

[Constantinople]

8 hours ago, millennium said:

Has everyone at Winterfell forgotten the enemy has a dragon now?

Not only everyone at Winterfell, the Night King too.

We've see what dragonfire can do to the Wall and Harrenhal, but Wight Dragon's been nowhere to be seen this season so far

[TaurusRose]

10 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Pretty broad statement, I think.

I'm okay with Jon telling her, I just didn't think right before they're heading into the literal battle of their lives was the time to do it. He didn't have to lie in that moment, he could've simply not responded to her statement. As far Dany wanting one last roll in the hay before the war begins, he could've deflected. I'm sure she would've had no problem feigning a headache if the situation were reversed.

A lie by omission is still a lie.  Dany had already picked up on him avoiding her and the comment about Rhaegar raping Lyanna could not go unanswered.  Jon did the right thing.  I guess this is an agree to disagree moment.  

[RedHawk]

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

For five seconds, Jaime Fucking Lannister actually had Dany and Sansa agreeing with each other about offing his ass.  The man knows how to bring people together!

Another episode that mainly seemed to be setting things up and allowing more character interactions before the first (?) big battle, but I didn't mind since I enjoyed seeing the character interact again.  It must be fun for a lot of these actors either getting to work with someone they haven't yet before or someone they haven't had a scene with in years.  It was great seeing the likes of Jaime/Tyrion (always one of my favorites), Jaime/Brienne, Tormund/Brienne, Tormund/Brienne/Jaime (hee!), Sansa/Theon the last of the Night's Watch together, Tyrion/Podrick, and so forth together again.  And the Bran/Jaime stuff was hilariously awkward as I hoped!  Should have known that Bran isn't even mad anymore, because that push made him... well, not be Bran anymore!  Oh, you crazy kid!

I'm glad Tyrion is realizing he has been fucking things up as Dany's Hand and hopefully he'll get it back together, but I really wouldn't be surprise if either Dany makes a new Hand soon, or shakes things up and makes a second hand or something to that nature that might be able to counter Tyrion's weaknesses.  I do think she was sincere though about wanting Tyrion to stay in the crypt because she didn't want to risk losing him in the battle, and not some kind of punishment.

Not surprised the Arya/Gendry hook-up ends up being the big talking point on the net.  I definitely get the weirdness as even though Maisie Williams is of age now, it just feels odd seeing her show the amount of skin that she did, but I think it makes sense for Arya wanting to have this moment with Gendry, since she might never get the chance to have sex with anyone; let alone him; again.

Brienne getting knighted was all kinds of awesome.

Love that Davos was apparently helping feed everyone during the wait.  He really is one of the truly decent characters still here.  Really hope that doesn't change in any kind of way.

Cool that they got a moment between Jorah and Lyanna Mormont as well.

I do wonder why no one brought up the fact that the Night King has his own ice dragon.

Jon already tells Dany the truth about his parentage, but of course the White Walkers show up before that talk can really begin!

Definitely think this episode was foreboding some major deaths next week (or whenever the battle happens.)  Cautiously, I think the "main" players are likely safe (the Starks, the Lannisters, Dany/Jon), but I think almost all of the secondary characters are fair game.  They certainly found the perfect set ups for a lot of them.  Missandei/Grey Worm talking about what they want to do after the war.  Theon still trying to repent for his misdeeds.  Brienne finally getting knighted.  Davos bringing up how he has been lucky to survive two big wars.  Dolorous Edd mentioning how he, Sam, and Jon are the last of the Night's Watch.  The conversation between The Hound and Beric.  And so many more.  Yeah, this is not going to end well for some!

Davos is the José Andrés of the North! 

The look of shame on Jaime’s face after Bran said, “The things we do for love”; so glad he finally had to see Bran in the wheelchair and know what his casual cruelty had done. Having lost the use of a limb himself, I thought Jaime would feel and understand the psychological pain of Bran’s loss even more. That’s one act that Jaime has zero excuse for. What would Brienne say if she knew?!

And speaking if Brienne, Gwendoline Christie’s facial expressions were wonderful, she conveyed so much in all her scenes. 

After seeing how Brienne looked to Pod for affirmation that she should kneel and be knighted, yet she still “insults” him about his skills, I think it’s possible that Jaime and Tormund might get a surprise when they ask her to choose. 

Brienne looking at Jaime sadly, “No” (because ultimately he doesn’t deserve her: Cersei, hurting Bran, etc.)

Brienne looking at Tormund, “No” (because Tormund)

Brienne looking at Pod, “Well, I guess you’ll do” (because she realizes that Pod loves her for herself; is brave, strong and honorable; loyal and trustworthy; not bad to look at; and won’t embarrass her with weird stories and poor table manners)

[Constantinople]

I'm really glad no one piped up with The Rains of Castamere when Tyrion called for a song.

[lorbeer]

18 hours ago, AttackTurtle said:

I think Jon told Dany the truth because he  needed to tell someone and he knew that the only person it could affect more than him is her.  Once Sansa and company find out, they’re going to insist that he is entitled to the throne.  Rather, Dany hear it from him than someone else.  

I actually think Sansa might know that already. And Arya. From what Jon said I figured he talked to Bran about that and that's why he knew all the detailes of his mother's death. I guess it's quite possible that Sansa already know. Maybe the Starks even know what Jon is planning to do about that.

Edited April 23, 2019 by lorbeer

[Bryce Lynch]

I didn't really buy the idea that any knight can make anyone else a knight.  If that were the case, how hasn't Ser Bronn of the Blackwater made a fortune selling knighthoods?

I would think it would take at least a Lord or Lady to make a knight.  I sort of thought that was what Catelyn Stark did to Brienne when Brienne swore herself to her and she promised to always give Brienne as place at her hearth and to never ask her to do anything to bring her dishonor.   

[Bryce Lynch]

18 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

I'm really glad no one piped up with The Rains of Castamere when Tyrion called for a song.

Too bad  Bronn hasn't made it to Wintefell yet.  We could have heard "The Dornishman's Wife".  

BTW, now we know that Pod has two talents.  

[screamin]

10 hours ago, Lady S. said:

I find it harder and harder to believe this weirdo has ever successfully wooed a woman, yet according to Hardhome he's sired at least 2 children. Wildling mating rituals must be very different.

I think maybe wildlings (being a non-reading culture) value a man who can tell a good tale, regardless of whether it's true or not (which I really don't think his is, and the wildlings would no doubt be aware of that as we are). Basically he's showing he's an entertaining guy with a sense of humor - at least by wildling standards.

[terrymct]

Beric said that this is his god's time and place.  That got me to thinking.  What has the Lord of Light ever really done?    With Mellisandre, the magic was either dark (ninja smoke baby) or wrong.   With Beric, the Lord of Light seems to have more positive aspects...but what has this god done other than allowing Beric to come back to life repeatedly and to light up Beric's sword so it can be used as a torch?   Has that fire sword ever done anything than provide better illumination as they walk?  He's used it in battle but it's never seemed to do more than a regular sword.   Are we going to see an army of red priestesses show up out of the blue with their necklaces glowing and do something to set the white walkers back?  Other than the ninja smoke baby, the influences of the Lord of Light have been mostly parlor tricks.

Edited April 22, 2019 by terrymct
fixed typo

[screamin]

1 minute ago, terrymct said:

Beric said that this is his god's time and place.  That got me to thinking.  What has the Lord of Light ever really done.    With Mellisandre, the magic was either dark (ninja smoke baby) or wrong.   With Beric, the Lord of Light seems to have more positive aspects...but what has this god done other than allowing Beric to come back to life repeatedly and to light up Beric's sword so it can be used as a torch.   Has that fire sword ever done anything than provide better illumination as they walk?  He's used it in battle but it's never seemed to do more than a regular sword.   Are we going to see an army of red priestesses show up out of the blue with their necklaces glowing and do something to set the white walkers back?  Other than the ninja smoke baby, the influences of the Lord of Light have been mostly parlor tricks.

I think Jon is going to be the Lord of Light's most powerful intervention.

[RedHawk]

5 minutes ago, terrymct said:

Beric said that this is his god's time and place.  That got me to thinking.  What has the Lord of Light ever really done.    With Mellisandre, the magic was either dark (ninja smoke baby) or wrong.   With Beric, the Lord of Light seems to have more positive aspects...but what has this god done other than allowing Beric to come back to life repeatedly and to light up Beric's sword so it can be used as a torch.   Has that fire sword ever done anything than provide better illumination as they walk?  He's used it in battle but it's never seemed to do more than a regular sword.   Are we going to see an army of red priestesses show up out of the blue with their necklaces glowing and do something to set the white walkers back?  Other than the ninja smoke baby, the influences of the Lord of Light have been mostly parlor tricks.

The flaming sword “killed” little Lord Umber when he became a wight-on-a-wall last episode. Would a regular sword have done that? Does Lightbringer (is that the sword’s name) have that special power, like dragonglass and Valerian steel?

[Chris24601]

33 minutes ago, terrymct said:

Check out Dany watching that.  Uh huh, Dragon girl.  No one in Westeros other than those you brought with you (primarily Jorah and the slaves you freed, Tyrion is more complex) feel any sort of dedication to you like you just saw there. They don't know you.  They have no emotional investment in you.  You're an old rumor, the living extension of a story from the bad old days.   They need your army and your dragons.   Other than that, you're nothing to them.  I wish she'd realize that and start to think about how to establish herself.

Dany is currently acting in total alignment with what’s called the Shadow King archetype. She is insecure in her power because she is not centered (one sign of this is her absolute refusal to actually answer any questions about how she intends to rule once she has the throne... likely because she doesn’t know herself. She’s been so focused on getting the throne that I don’t think she’s thought beyond platitudes like “break the wheel” on what happens afterwards).

Because they are insecure in their power, the Shadow King focuses on outward displays of power... fly-bys with her dragons, piling on titles, wanting everyone to respect and love from everyone.

And how could Dany really be secure at this point? She’s the stranger in a land she’s never set foot in until a few months ago. She’s not the beloved liberator here; she’s the last of a line of conquerors whose last days in power were remembered for the war and strife they brought. And things have not gone at all as she planned or expected; she lost both her main Westerosi allies, her fleet, and was outmaneuvered by Cersei in the attack on Casterly Rock. She lost a dragon to an enemy she didn’t even know existed and then Cersei outplayed her again with her false promises of support and the North still wanting independence once this all over.

If her endgame is to rule the Seven Kingdoms, she must gain that center and grow past the need for the outward displays of authority and become a True “King.” She needs to outgrow the need for the trappings of rulership.

The surest sign of her growth in that direction would be destroying the Iron Throne (the physical trapping of rulership) for the good of the people. It would be a sign that she’s learned a true queen is a queen regardless of where she sits. Thd throne is just a symbol, not the source, of leadership.

Her greatest danger is that her insecurity will cause her to double down on outward displays of power by resorting to raw force to get her way as she did with the Tarleys who refused to kneel. That way is the path of the Tyrant whereas the proper King archetype unites people by their example and by focusing on the needs of their people.

As much as anything this episode set up a test for Dany in the next about whether she will grow into the “King” role or remain a “Shadow King.” She has been presented with a point of insecurity with Sansa (both still wanting independence and because Sansa has advisors she trusts absolutely and people willing to fight and die for her) and with Jon’s revelation of his true parentage making her claim to the Iron Throne far less secure... and knowing one of the primary sources for his claim will be sitting right in the Godswood (and the documentation is probably in the library of Winterfell where Sam keeps his books).

The test? Does she use the cover of battle to eliminate her sources of insecurity with violence (i.e. remain the Shadow King) or does she put the needs of the people she intends to rule first by focusing on the battle against the dead (which will do a lot on its own to remove much of the insecurity people have towards her on its own) and then deal with the points of insecurity presented as a proper ruler would?

That’s Dany’s REAL challenge next episode... the battle with death itself is just the pressure point for driving action based on everyone’s true nature. That’s why Dany had to know before the battle... because it’s going to require her to go with her gut and not her head and in so doing, reveal her true character (as will be the case for everyone in the heat of the coming battle... they’re all going to have to act without time to ponder and so we’ll see all their true natures come to the fore).

[terrymct]

11 minutes ago, screamin said:

I think Jon is going to be the Lord of Light's most powerful intervention.

This is probably the right track.  The Lord of Light turns Jon into Azhor Ahi the Second.   Beric has the fire sword now but that doesn't preclude there being a second igniting sword.  I hope there's a Lord of Light payoff somehow.  There have been hints about that god since almost the beginning.  

[Bannon]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The fact that so many people were uncomfortable seeing a 22 year old actress have a sex scene makes me all the more glad that they did it. Arya's not a little girl. She is an adult woman who chose to have sex. It's not icky or gross or inappropriate. Women are allowed to have sex and enjoy it. Funny how people were okay with Arya going to assassin school as a child and MURDERING PEOPLE but choosing to have sex the night before she might die is what's not cool.

Very much agree. I am so tired of major female characters in this show being raped, especially as their first sexual experience (I nearly quit this show after the 1st episode, due to how Drogo's rape of Dany was filmed in an offensively pornographic manner), that it was quite welcome to see Arya have a mutually consensual and enjoyable sexual encounter, that was completely credible, plot-wise. Impending death in combat quite frequently results in people wanting sex.

[DarkRaichu]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

20,000 horny Golden Company sellswords fighting over local prostitutes.... 

Pantomime fighting since they are mute

[One Tough Cookie]

I think Dany will kill Jon and Sam to keep the secret.

[enoughcats]

11 hours ago, The Companion said:

Also, her face when Tormund told the Giantsbane story almost killed me. 

But Tormund knew at least one Giant.  Remember the giant who came south with the crew and who broke down the gate to let Jon get to Ramsey Bolton after the BOB.  
To me, when I first heard it, it was an outlandish fairytale.  Then as I replayed the hour in my head to go to sleep (a lot more fun than counting sheep), I remembered that in GoT universe, Giants were real.  

So did Tormund really..........?

[betha]

If the Night King is heading toward Bran and knows where he is at all times, why didn’t they put Bran in the Iron Islands?

[Timetoread]

I didn't mind this episode.  There were a lot of character beats that needed to be cleaned up before the show cleans house with most dead but the victor.

What I liked:  Sansa/Dany.  That was a productive, realistic conversation.  Up until this point Dany's had to conquer the land she took over.  This time she has to win over people for them to follow her.  I think she can do that because I didn't see anything but respect from her for Sansa for playing hardball.  She thought that Sansa was just a jealous or overprotective sister, but she found out that Sansa is really the TRUE representative and leader of the people in the North and that she is, in her way, formidable.  Also that she IS trying to protect them, not just be contrary.  Danerys is not the first Monarch that Sansa has encountered and frankly she's not impressed by titles nor is she a follower.  No disrespect to Tyrion but I thought that Sansa, with her no bullshit style of leadership, would make a fine Hand of the Queen.

Arya/Gendry.  I wasn't as bothered as other people - humans are sexual and children grow up.  I did hope that Maisie didn't feel pressured to add sex to her resume though.   From a creative point of view, I would have liked the blushing virgin to blush just a little bit. I know she's a bad ass but this is her first romance and I would have welcomed just a little softness on her side, that even she has EMOTIONAL needs.  I think Gendry deserved a moment to be the man in a sexual situation, to not again have a woman order his penis to do its job.  HE had something he could give to the rich girl.  She didn't have to take it.

Brienne.  Bout time somebody knighted her.  I just wish she would have a decent man actually interested in her.  Tormund is funny but he is also disrespectful.  It just continues to feed into the ugly girl trope that she should be happy with whatever attention she can get, not that she's worthy of a man who is her equal and who loves her.

Sansa/Theon.  I didn't tear up like I did when she encountered Jon, but it brought back to me that Theon was also a boy she grew up with.  They have a long history and I just got the sense, now that she's safe, has the rest of her family and his worst instincts have been literally neutered, that she just plain missed him - he was the last brother to come home and she is as much his sister as Yara.

Okay but here's where I part ways with most other viewers:  while Jon is now the official heir of House Targaryan, I don't think that means anything.  Last I checked, House Targaryan had been kicked to the curb by Robert Baratheon - Cersei sits on the throne now on the strength of THAT name.  It would seem Gendry would have the most immediate right to the throne, not Jon, unless he wanted to fight for it.  Which leads me to, with what army is Jon expecting to fight for the throne?  Dany didn't get her army from her name.  She is Khaleesi by marriage and conquer.  SHE freed the Unsullied who gave their allegiance by choice to HER.  SHE conquered Mereen and freed those people.    SHE hatched those dragons from eggs given to her and raised them like her own children.  They are hers.  The armies are hers.  Her accomplishments are hers.  Are we supposed to suppose that because Jon was her brother's child and has a penis that she should just GIVE him everything, become his concubine, so he can just casually saunter up to the throne?  The thought of that pisses me off because it feels EXTREMELY sexist.  I'd like to add here that it would seem to me that somebody ruling 7 kingdoms should want to do so. Jon is not a very good leader at all.  He's a nice guy and very earnest but he has not successfully led ANYTHING, nor does he seem to care about the fate of his people in general.  He's just gotten very lucky and the audience has turned a blind eye to his flaws. I know I'm alone, but I have NO desire to see Jon claim a throne he hasn't wanted or earned.  I wish him happiness but a strong ruler he is not.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Timetoread

[GodsBeloved]

1 minute ago, betha said:

If the Night King is heading toward Bran and knows where he is at all times, why didn’t they put Bran in the Iron Islands?

Maybe because they just found out.

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, terrymct said:

Did you notice that the Night King wasn't in the row of White Walkers in the closing scene?   If I was the Night King, I would send the army to Winterfell for a battle as expected, while I hop on my zombie dragon and fly down the coast to squirt some icy dragon blue fire on Kings Landing.   We still have to get to the point from the vision where the Kings Landing throne room looks both burned and frosty.

Well, unless Bran is way off, the NK's top priority is ending the line of 3 eyed Ravens for eternity. We'll see how they write it, but the military aspect of this show has never been especially well done. I'm at the point where I'll just be happy if they don't have the surviving living making a nonsensical successful retreat back to KL, with The AotD in pursuit.

[Drogo]

21 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

wight-on-a-wall 

Planning for this to outsell Elf on a Shelf come Christmas 2019.

[taanja]

OMG! Everyone is going to die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

^THAT was my initial take-away from the ep. 

[Drogo]

1 minute ago, GodsBeloved said:

3 minutes ago, betha said:

If the Night King is heading toward Bran and knows where he is at all times, why didn’t they put Bran in the Iron Islands?

Maybe because they just found out.

Surely the Iron Islands aren't safe now with the Night King on dragonback. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, Bali said:

No. Peter Dinklage even put out a PSA asking people to stop buying huskies without researching them first. And he reminded them that they are NOT Direwolves. A lot of huskies wound up in shelters.

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

Sheesh, the same happened with white owls after Harry Potter. 

And Dalmatians after 101 Dalmatians!

[paigow]

2 minutes ago, taanja said:

OMG! Everyone is going to die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then the episode should be retitled as: Infinity War

[Scaeva]

9 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

Based on how the show has been portraying the characters through 2 episodes:

- I don't feel like Jon is getting the "rightful king" edit.  If anything, he seems passive and sheepish, basically hiding out for most of the episode.  We see very little from his point of view.

- Dany seems to be getting a "ruler who needs to learn" edit.  She came in cold and distant and is trying to win people over/make people accept her.  She didn't just "OR ELSE" Sansa, as she seemed to imply that she would do in the last episode.  Instead she acted frustrated, but nothing more.  I think she will show her stuff in the battle to come and the ice will melt (pun intended) between her and the North.

- It will probably end with Jon renouncing the crown, Dany taking it, but then Dany marrying Jon so they both get to rule anyway.

I don't think the series is going to end with both of them alive.

It was possibly foreshadowed in the last episode where Varys muses that nothing lasts forever, as the camera focuses on Dany & Jon. My money is on Jon dying for real this time, while killing the Night King, but Daenerys being pregnant with an heir.

Plus, this being Game of Thrones....no way both main characters we're supposed to be rooting for are getting a happy ending. Tears are coming.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Scaeva

[Drogo]

34 minutes ago, terrymct said:

With Beric, the Lord of Light seems to have more positive aspects...but what has this god done other than allowing Beric to come back to life repeatedly and to light up Beric's sword so it can be used as a torch? 

He allowed Thoros to bring back Beric, but also allowed Melisandre to bring back Jon and Ray to bring back The Hound. 

All three said they have no power other than the power the LoL bestows upon them. 

[DarkRaichu]

2 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Surely the Iron Islands aren't safe now with the Night King on dragonback. 

Who needs a dragon when the wights can walk underwater as shown last season