S08.E14: The End or the Beginning

[Dittohead]

I was afraid that if they had asked Luke first if he wanted to stay married or get a divorce, he would have said he wanted to stay married, and then Kate would have agreed.   But because she went first, he had to save face and say he also wanted a divorce.  He looked perturbed, though. 

Good job, Kate.   I'm proud of you.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Dittohead

[Empress1]

7 minutes ago, aphroditewitch said:

But $10,000 is not that much when you factor in the damage a show like this could do  to your career.I think it seems like a lot for 8 weeks but the damage could cost a person more than that. 

I don't think it even seems like that much for 8 weeks given that filming is stressful and would eat up essentially all your down time, not to mention your PTO to go on the trips the show makes them take. IMO if you're going to do a reality show for the money, this one should be way down on the list. The risks far outweigh the rewards, particularly given the show's trash track record at setting up successful couples.

[Soup333]

11 minutes ago, Dittohead said:

I was afraid that if they had asked Luke first if he wanted to stay married or get a divorce, he would have said he wanted to stay married, and then Kate would have agreed.   But because she went first, he had to save face and say he also wanted a divorce.  He looked perturbed, though. 

Good job, Kate.   I'm proud of you.

Yes and same with Will and Jas. If he’d gone first and said he wanted a divorce she’d had said the same. 

[Crazy Bird Lady]

11 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Jasmine will see it’s better... since Will is not what she really wants, she basically said as much by bringing up his poor financial prospects. Will’s face after she gave her answer was like, shit, now I have to be the bad guy. Pastor Cal needs to stop with that disappointing head shaking. 

Pastor Cal was full of it, insisting they still had a good chance of working. There's no way if they'd said "yes," they'd still be together at the Reunion!!

And unfortunately my opinion of Keith went down several points on the 0-10 scale when he was excitedly telling Krystine why he wanted to stay married to her. Everything he said was all about himself!! It was, "I'm excited for the future with Krystine because she makes me a better person, and I think in time she will help me to become my best self..."  Not a single word about her beautiful smile, her beautiful body, or even about how much he'd enjoyed being with her!!  

I was disappointed in him, and rather surprised that Krystine (who sure looked like she'd noticed the same thing) chose to stay with him anyway. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Claire Voyant]

Puke telling Kate at least 3 times (yes, I counted)  how "attractive" he could find her made me want to reach through the tv and give him some wall to wall counseling.  What a douche.  I'm so happy for Kate I could PUKE!  LOL

Puke being gay or not has nothing to do with his treatment of Kate.  I've known many gay people and they are kind and thoughtful to both men and women and children.   Puke is perverse and he's absolutely on point when he said he was dead inside.   I'd feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a gigantic ass and so determined to play sicko mind games. 

Stephanie, Stephanie, Stephanie.  WTF are you doing?  AJ is an only child with a child's temper to match and if you think he's going to become more thoughtful and respectful toward you because the camera's are gone, you are sadly mistaken. 

Jasmine.  Go find a rich man who wants to be told how he feels and when he should feel it. 

God bless Will for not taking advantage of her willingness to have sex with him.  Not many men out there who would have been quite so chivalrous, no matter how happy she would have been.   Just ask Puke. 

[jb0495]

Bisexuality is a sexual orientation. Sexuality is a spectrum. not a straight line from "straight" to "gay". All the cries of "Luke MUST be gay & now the FB comment proves it" were really disheartening to read all season. If Luke is dating a man & happy, good for him. 

Frankly, I don't have sympathy for Kate. Yes, Luke is an asshole. But, the onus is on her for staying with him AND (if true) asking for affection/sex. Girl needs to learn some self worth and work on her self esteem. 

Also, my cousin is friends with some people who know Kate. She's not from Philly, she's from my very small hometown in South Jersey & apparently has always had a "meek" like personality. 

[Gem 10]

12 hours ago, Koalagirl said:

Now I can’t wait for next week’s reunion. Go Kate!! 

Kate has to go to the reunion with confidence and not put her head down.  She has to go in proud that Puke did not manipulate her into staying with him.  He thought he was the master and she would do anything he wanted.  The guy is a psycho.

[Lusterleaf]

I was kind of expecting already for AJ & Stephanie/ Keith & Kristine to stay together. AJ makes me cringe though. I hope for Stephanie's sake he gets some sort of anger management therapy. I was also surprised that Stephanie told him that she loved him.

I know Jasmine was upset, but I think her and Will are better of divorcing vs. dragging the relationship out which eventually will lead to divorce anyway. Will knew right away that the relationship wasn't going to work based on her values of the man paying all the bills and being the sole provider.

Luke and Kate, just glad it is all over. Although the reunion show does look interesting based on the preview, and I won't be surprised if it comes out that Luke is actually gay.

[discoprincessthe2]

34 minutes ago, Claire Voyant said:

God bless Will for not taking advantage of her willingness to have sex with him.  Not many men out there who would have been quite so chivalrous, no matter how happy she would have been.   Just ask Puke. 

33 minutes ago, jb0495 said:

Bisexuality is a sexual orientation. Sexuality is a spectrum. not a straight line from "straight" to "gay". All the cries of "Luke MUST be gay & now the FB comment proves it" were really disheartening to read all season. If Luke is dating a man & happy, good for him. 

Frankly, I don't have sympathy for Kate. Yes, Luke is an asshole. But, the onus is on her for staying with him AND (if true) asking for affection/sex. Girl needs to learn some self worth and work on her self esteem. 

Also, my cousin is friends with some people who know Kate. She's not from Philly, she's from my very small hometown in South Jersey & apparently has always had a "meek" like personality. 

Yes, sexuality is a spectrum. Regardless of whether or not Luke is gay, it was just so enraging that Luke dragged this "mockery" out as far as it went. Will may not be liked by a number of people on the boards, but at least he had enough integrity to sleep with Jasmine if he knew full well that it wasn't going to work. (Side note: He probably wasn't really that attracted to Jasmine either, but at least he didn't just blurt that out.) Luke should have stopped after the first time when he felt "repulsed and dead inside". Yes, I grudgingly acknowledge that Kate shares some responsibility for going back for more, but I believe Luke should assume the lion's share of the blame. (Side note: In contrast, even though Dave from Dallas knew that he didn't consider Amber to be "wife" material, he didn't report being "repulsed" by her when he was sleeping with her every. single. day. )

[Neurochick]

10 hours ago, Luckylondon said:

Damn... just damnnnn 🤯 This is so true and so... sad, too.

See, my thing is this "you can do sooooo much better" is like, WTF?  What does that mean?  Is there some perfect person lurking around the corner, just waiting for someone to say, "I can do better." 

Now, Kate CERTAINLY can do better than that jerk.  

I think Jasmine lost Will with all that "the man has to pay the bills" nonsense.  Jasmine needs to talk to that married friend of hers, ask how it is for her.  I think Will is a good man, you know why?  He could have had sex with Jasmine, said he wanted to "stay married" and then dumped her a few months later.

I don't think Luke is gay at all; I think he's just a douchebag; one of those people who says he's in a relationship with a man because he thinks it sounds cool.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Neurochick

[Ohwell]

14 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

See, my thing is this "you can do sooooo much better" is like, WTF?  What does that mean?  Is there some perfect person lurking around the corner, just waiting for someone to say, "I can do better." 

Now, Kate CERTAINLY can do better than that jerk. 

I think you just answered your own question. 

While no one is "perfect," I believe there is such a notion as "doing better" when looking for a partner.  For example, who wants to be stuck with someone they do not not love and see no future with, for whatever reason?  "Doing better" can simply mean finding someone you're more compatible with.   

Edited April 3, 2019 by Ohwell

[qtpye]

3 hours ago, Booger666 said:

I like Jasmine, but I think she is selfish and that is the problem Will had with her.  Will has a job he doesn’t particularly like, but does it to pay the bills.  That’s adulting and having financial goals.  For Jasmine to say she wants him to be at a job that makes him unhappy so she can have more $$$ to spend on herself is so incredibly selfish.  And, I don’t blame him for not pointing that out to her.  I think he got through this by being graciously quiet about her faults despite her pointing out what she believes are his faults.  I think if Will met a woman who made a lot less than him he would be fine with paying more than 50% of the bills if he felt it was a true partnership and she was contributing what she could to their situation.  

2 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

 And one more off-putting trait of Lukewarm Puke (why it took me so long put those terms together, I have no idea!):

He has THE most godawful vocal fry I have ever heard! 

16 minutes ago, discoprincessthe2 said:

Yes, sexuality is a spectrum. Regardless of whether or not Luke is gay, it was just so enraging that Luke dragged this "mockery" out as far as it went. Will may not be liked by a number of people on the boards, but at least he had enough integrity to sleep with Jasmine if he knew full well that it wasn't going to work. (Side note: He probably wasn't really that attracted to Jasmine either, but at least he didn't just blurt that out.) Luke should have stopped after the first time when he felt "repulsed and dead inside". Yes, I grudgingly acknowledge that Kate shares some responsibility for going back for more, but I believe Luke should assume the lion's share of the blame. (Side note: In contrast, even though Dave from Dallas knew that he didn't consider Amber to be "wife" material, he didn't report being "repulsed" by her when he was sleeping with her every. single. day. )

15 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

See, my thing is this "you can do sooooo much better" is like, WTF?  What does that mean?  Is there some perfect person lurking around the corner, just waiting for someone to say, "I can do better." 

Now, Kate CERTAINLY can do better than that jerk.  

I think Jasmine lost Will with all that "the man has to pay the bills" nonsense.  Jasmine needs to talk to that married friend of hers, ask how it is for her.  I think Will is a good man, you know why?  He could have had sex with Jasmine, said he wanted to "stay married" and then dumped her a few months later.

When Will was on unfiltered with Sexy AF, Kristin, and Jaimie O, he was a lot more animated and lively. Also, on a shallow note, Jasmine is an attractive tall statuesque woman. Will always looked so small next to her. On Unfiltered, he looked like  wierd giant compared to those women. As AJ would say, those girls are tiny AF. Also, unlike me, never quote AJ.

Edited April 3, 2019 by qtpye

[aphroditewitch]

1 hour ago, jb0495 said:

Bisexuality is a sexual orientation. Sexuality is a spectrum. not a straight line from "straight" to "gay". All the cries of "Luke MUST be gay & now the FB comment proves it" were really disheartening to read all season. If Luke is dating a man & happy, good for him. 

Frankly, I don't have sympathy for Kate. Yes, Luke is an asshole. But, the onus is on her for staying with him AND (if true) asking for affection/sex. Girl needs to learn some self worth and work on her self esteem. 

Also, my cousin is friends with some people who know Kate. She's not from Philly, she's from my very small hometown in South Jersey & apparently has always had a "meek" like personality. 

Luke should have been honest about his sexuality. If he is bi, gay, or just doesn't like labels he needed to be upfront about it. 

There is some evidence that Kate did leave earlier though. The scenes for Kate and Luke were very choppy and suggest one of them did not live in the house and was showing up to film. Either way, I'm not going to blame someone because other person abused them. Kate got out earlier then most people would have in a regular situation. Abuse is complicated and applying normal reactions to an abused person doesn't work. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by aphroditewitch

[Claire Voyant]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

See, my thing is this "you can do sooooo much better" is like, WTF?  What does that mean?  Is there some perfect person lurking around the corner, just waiting for someone to say, "I can do better." 

Now, Kate CERTAINLY can do better than that jerk.  

I think Jasmine lost Will with all that "the man has to pay the bills" nonsense.  Jasmine needs to talk to that married friend of hers, ask how it is for her.  I think Will is a good man, you know why?  He could have had sex with Jasmine, said he wanted to "stay married" and then dumped her a few months later.

I don't think Luke is gay at all; I think he's just a douchebag; one of those people who says he's in a relationship with a man because he thinks it sounds cool.

This!  Class-A douchebag. 

I don't care if all he's sexually drawn to are Kewpie dolls, he's still a shifty-eyed, mealy-mouthed, mean, nasty, emmer effer.  No gay, bi or transgender proclivities have got anything to do with his dirty, self-absorbed, spiritless self.  He is what he is and it's nothing nice.  Not an ounce of empathy anywhere.  I personally am uncomfortable just knowing he's out there and he's running free.  

Oh.  And please God, don't let Kate and Puke be stupid enough to be pregnant. 😱 Amen.    

Edited April 3, 2019 by Claire Voyant

[OnTime]

Don't they have to tell the experts their decisions BEFORE they sit down together? The experts or producers already know so they can decide who goes first. They wouldn't have Will go first to say divorce then Jassmine say stay married. Would they?

Edited April 3, 2019 by OnTime

[Jeanne222]

Why would a gay man go on a married at first sight show anyway?  Makes no sense!

[Captain Asshat]

56 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Why would a gay man go on a married at first sight show anyway?  Makes no sense!

Not much about this show makes sense, including why *anyone* would go on this show. But here are a few reasons (insert tongue firmly in cheek):

1. Exposure
2. Credibility for his speed dating "business."
3. To disprove rumors that he's gay.
4. Immersive therapy to "not be gay anymore."
5. A demo reel for any attempted future acting gigs. "I once played 'straight.' It was very brave of me, and I looked beautiful."
6. As a hipster, he thought nothing is more ironic than a gay man going on a straight "BOOM! You're Married!" TV show. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Captain Asshat
Question marks are not periods.

[Claire Voyant]

8 minutes ago, Captain Asshat said:

Not much about this show makes sense, including why would *anyone* go on this show? But here are a few reasons (insert tongue firmly in cheek):

1. Exposure
2. Credibility for his speed dating service.
3. To disprove rumors that he's gay.
4. Immersive therapy to "not be gay anymore."
5. A demo reel for any attempted future acting gigs. "I once played 'straight.' It was very brave of me, and I looked beautiful."
6. As a hipster, he thought nothing is more ironic than a gay man going on a straight "BOOM! You're Married!" TV show. 

#5!  LMAO  🤣

[scruffy73]

40 minutes ago, OnTime said:

Don't they have to tell the experts their decisions BEFORE they sit down together? The experts or producers already know so they can decide who goes first. They wouldn't have Will go first to say divorce then Jassmine say stay married. Would they?

I would hope they wouldn’t do Jas like that on purpose.

[Neurochick]

3 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I think you just answered your own question. 

While no one is "perfect," I believe there is such a notion as "doing better" when looking for a partner.  For example, who wants to be stuck with someone they do not not love and see no future with, for whatever reason?  "Doing better" can simply mean finding someone you're more compatible with.   

But usually when people say "you can do better" it's not about compatibility.  I've heard it described when it comes to looks/career/residence/family.  When I said Kate can do better than Luke, I said it because Luke is a jerk and almost anybody would be better than Luke.

And what if the person you're with IS the better person for you, but because you've got a fairy tale view of the world, you can't see it.  That's what I meant when I said some people never find "the one" because what they're looking for doesn't exist.  

For instance, I don't think Jasmine knows what she wants.  On one hand, she wants the man to be the provider.  On the other hand, she's constantly correcting Will for every little thing.  She doesn't want him to be in charge.  She wants to be in charge, but she doesn't want to pay the bills.  That is confusing.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Neurochick

[LuvMyShows]

17 hours ago, configdotsys said:

Jasmine needs to understand that just because they are not a match, she hasn't failed. Her priorities and what she wanted was opposite of him. Cal should STFU with his opinion. He was trying to make Will feel bad about his decision. 

I suspect that she was worried about daddy's disapproval that she couldn't make it work with a Lincoln guy, rather than having her eyes opened that she and Will were a terrible match and are sooo much better off not being married.  I hope next week's reconciliation-ish preview is just producer shenanigans.

17 hours ago, spunky said:

I'm with Jasmine and Pastor Cal. Will placed a timeline on their marriage and never even tried. There is someone out there for you Jasmine. Pastor Cal's face during Kate and Luke's discussion was all of us. Finally Kate!!

Have we ever seen a couple before where the experts were glad/approving that they got a divorce?  I think that if Jessica and Hundy Ryan had been aired in this day and age, when there's more consciousness of how abuse really manifests itself, maybe the experts wouldn't have pressured her the way they did.  OTOH, knowing our beloved 'experts', maybe not!

[LuvMyShows]

14 hours ago, scruffy73 said:

 He did say he felt like she was his best friend so there is some foundation there.

What he said was "You've grown into one of my best friends," which actually conveyed the opposite of a reason for them to stay together.  As soon as I heard that, I knew he was dunzo.

[Retired at last]

I would be totally shocked if will and Jasmine reconnect (although they never really connected, so that's not the right word.) I think Will realized that not just the money thing, but their values and interests were not compatible. I also respect Will for not having sex with her since he didn't feel emotionally connected to her. I do think he might have been willing to give it more time to develop, but he must have changed his mind. I don't think it would have worked because she couldn't let him do anything without criticizing him or demeaning his attempts to do anything - like making breakfast. She wanted the man to be in charge of the money and she wants to be a trophy wife - period. If he was bringing in enough to  keep her happy, she wouldn't have cared if he gave back to the community and coached, as long as she had enough money to do whatever she wanted. She was about the money and I think he was about the values.

[discoprincessthe2]

12 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

I suspect that she was worried about daddy's disapproval that she couldn't make it work with a Lincoln guy, rather than having her eyes opened that she and Will were a terrible match and are sooo much better off not being married.  I hope next week's reconciliation-ish preview is just producer shenanigans.

Have we ever seen a couple before where the experts were glad/approving that they got a divorce?  I think that if Jessica and Hundy Ryan had been aired in this day and age, when there's more consciousness of how abuse really manifests itself, maybe the experts wouldn't have pressured her the way they did.  OTOH, knowing our beloved 'experts', maybe not!

When was the last time before this season (aside from the infamous Heather/Derek honeymoon and the infamous Jon/Molly pairing) that the spouses opted to divorce on Decision Day? (I only started watching during the Miami season, by the way.)

Edited April 3, 2019 by discoprincessthe2

[aphroditewitch]

11 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

I suspect that she was worried about daddy's disapproval that she couldn't make it work with a Lincoln guy, rather than having her eyes opened that she and Will were a terrible match and are sooo much better off not being married.  I hope next week's reconciliation-ish preview is just producer shenanigans.

Have we ever seen a couple before where the experts were glad/approving that they got a divorce?  I think that if Jessica and Hundy Ryan had been aired in this day and age, when there's more consciousness of how abuse really manifests itself, maybe the experts wouldn't have pressured her the way they did.  OTOH, knowing our beloved 'experts', maybe not!

Jasmine graduated from Lincoln too so that should be a minor concern. In the end I think her dad should be happy that his daughter graduated from there.

I'm not sure about the experts in terms to Jessica and Ryan. However Jamie posted something about how she never advocated for a couple to divorce before Kate and Luke. However Jessica and Ryan are probably not on anyone's mind these days. 

[Madding crowd]

24 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

But usually when people say "you can do better" it's not about compatibility.  I've heard it described when it comes to looks/career/residence/family.  When I said Kate can do better than Luke, I said it because Luke is a jerk and almost anybody would be better than Luke.

And what if the person you're with IS the better person for you, but because you've got a fairy tale view of the world, you can't see it.  That's what I meant when I said some people never find "the one" because what they're looking for doesn't exist.  

For instance, I don't think Jasmine knows what she wants.  On one hand, she wants the man to be the provider.  On the other hand, she's constantly correcting Will for every little thing.  She doesn't want him to be in charge.  She wants to be in charge, but she doesn't want to pay the bills.  That is confusing.

I think Jasmine knew Will wasn’t into her from the beginning so she picked on him to cover up her hurt. Then she tried to give it another chance with the sexy get up and he still wasn’t interested. And I agree she doesn’t know what she wants. I think it is sometimes hard for women who have been in the working world and are used to making their own decisions. I don’t dislike her but she lost me when she made fun of Will’s upbringing. You just don’t do that.  She had a nice figure and a beautiful smile-she will find someone if she can let her guard down.

[aphroditewitch]

2 minutes ago, discoprincessthe2 said:

When was the last time before this season (aside from the infamous Heather/Derek honeymoon and the infamous Jon/Molly pairing) that the spouses opted to divorce on Decision Day? (I only started watching during the Miami season, by the way.)

Season three with Neil choosing to divorce Sam and Ashley choosing to divorce David.

[dirtypop90]

24 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I think Jasmine knew Will wasn’t into her from the beginning so she picked on him to cover up her hurt. Then she tried to give it another chance with the sexy get up and he still wasn’t interested. And I agree she doesn’t know what she wants. I think it is sometimes hard for women who have been in the working world and are used to making their own decisions. I don’t dislike her but she lost me when she made fun of Will’s upbringing. You just don’t do that.  She had a nice figure and a beautiful smile-she will find someone if she can let her guard down.

Jasmine never made fun of Will's upbringing.  She just said it was different.

---

I was only surprised by Kate this ep.  Pleasantly so.

I wanted all of the women to say "divorce," but knew Stephanie and Kristine would not.  I do not expect their pairings to work.  AJ is a loose canon.  And Kristine is already starting to look worn out; "raising a man" is hard work.  I expect her to walk soon-ish.

My issue with Will all season has been his lack of honesty. He couldn't even look Jasmine in the eyes the majority of the time because he was not being honest.  I do believe Jas was blindsided because Will didn't tell her he wasn't attracted to her, when he so obviously isn't.  In fact, I think he told her the opposite, which is why she ignored the glaringly obvious signs that he wasn't physically attracted to her.  He could have at least whispered it to her when the cameras weren't rolling.  I've personally seen it since the wedding.  He showed zero excitement about Jas after he saw her.  Will not wanting to pay all the bills was not their biggest hurdle.  I've known men to say they will not do a lot of things and for women they weren't really attracted to and completely flip the script when they get a woman they thought was hot.  I think we would have gotten a completely different Will if he were paired with a woman that he was physically attracted to.  He refusal to "bend" on anything or to even really try with Jas was because he wasn't physically attracted to her.

Edited April 3, 2019 by dirtypop90

[aphroditewitch]

9 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

Jasmine never made fun of Will's upbringing.  She just said it was different.

---

I was only surprised by Kate this ep.  Pleasantly so.

I wanted all of the women to say "divorce," but knew Stephanie and Kristine would not.  I do not expect their pairings to work.  AJ is a loose canon.  And Kristine is already starting to look worn out; "raising a man" is hard work.  I expect her to walk soon-ish.

My issue with Will all season has been his lack of honesty. He couldn't even look Jasmine in the eyes the majority of the time because he was not being honest.  I do believe Jas was blindsided because Will didn't tell her he wasn't attracted to her, when he so obviously isn't.  In fact, I think he told her the opposite, which is why she ignored the glaringly obvious signs that he wasn't physically attracted to her.  He could have at least whispered it to her when the cameras weren't rolling.  I've personally seen it since the wedding.  He showed zero excitement about Jas after he saw her.  Will not wanting to pay all the bills was not their biggest hurdle.  I've known men to say they will not do a lot of things and for women they weren't really attracted to and completely flip the script when they get a woman they thought was hot.  I think we would have gotten a completely different Will if he were paired with a woman that he was physically attracted to.  He refusal to "bend" on anything or to even really try with Jas was because he wasn't physically attracted to her.

I agree. I wrote about it earlier, we saw several moments where he was not telling the truth and flashbacks would support Jasmine's version of events. And when she would get upset about the thoughtless things he was saying to her, he acted like she was unreasonable and crazy. He turned everything around on her and made it her fault, while he pretended to be blameless and I think that is the reason Pastor Cal was pissed. 

Will wants someone who agrees with everything he says. But I feel bad for anyone he gets with now because the second she disagrees with him or calls him out on his bs, he is going to do the same thing he did to Jasmine. 

Again I think it is good that they split because Jasmine would have been the only one putting in effort. Will doesn't think he needs to be the one making compromises in a relationship. 

[silverspoons]

9 hours ago, discoprincessthe2 said:

While AJ slapping Luke on the butt during the mini moon was beyond the pale, he was shown as being drunk, angry, and obnoxious during the entire first night when had arrived at the mini moon house. Will of all people even asked AJ to "bring it down a notch", which didn't happen. Conveniently Steph had missed much of that because she had gone to bed early.

I rewatched the slap, there is something off about the scene , if you can rewatch and tell me what you think. The slap sound is very loud, like skin on skin loud. Luke was wearing shorts (and mostly likely underwear) , no way he sound would have been that loud. Then why was there little to no reaction, Luke turned around but no one said anything about it. A few comments later , people said tone it down AJ. While I think AJ did not want to be at the shared mini moon and was drunk, I think the scene was go an edit for drama. 

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, dirtypop90 said:

Jasmine never made fun of Will's upbringing.  She just said it was different.

She didn't make fun of his upbringing, but her voice, and body language said it all.   Jasmine said "different" because she didn't want to say, "not as well off as I've grown up."  

To me, Jasmine was toast when she said that because Will is the man, he should pay all the bills.  What year is she living in?

[Kareem]

Will may not have been lying when he said he was attracted to her (initially).  I also don't believe he was lying when he kept mentioning communication.  An example is her Gimme Sex dinner, where he knew she was bucking for something and she asked him a question, got an answer and moved on to the next question.  That was no discussion.  That was Dan Rather.  And in her brain, she filed it under communication and was ready for sex.  He suggested going to bed.  She made the grand entrance into the bedroom saying "Dahling!  Dahling!"  Time to play the experts kissing game or some such thing.  Jasmine can't read a room.  I think that's also why she said that she felt he was leaning towards staying together and "stressing" over it. I don't think she listens very well or realizes how condescending she appears whether the subject is pancakes, parks or pay checks.  

Kristine wasn't on board with everything out of Keith's mouth and aside from the one dinner where she told him to hold up on the kids and the dog, she was fun, friendly and willing to enjoy the time with him. Jasmine was either condescending or went into "no use talking about it because we don't agree" mode.  She did it in the car, did it in the bowling alley, etc. I believe he did try but things never improved, and I still give him credit for not boinking his way to D day.  It was so sad watching her hurt reaction to his decision because she didn't seem to understand.  Then she accused him of being selfish and the rest so she went back to being the "Jasmine's always right" she's been.  

I didn't like that Cal tried to give Will a raft of grief for saying thanks but no thanks.  He doesn't have to live with The World According to Jasmine.  There's someone out there for Jasmine but it had to have been a tough seven weeks for Will.  He seemed so normal with everyone else - his friend, the mini-mooners and her family.  He recognized that AJ was an ass so maybe I gave him too many points for that.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Kareem
word left out

[scruffy73]

I disagree that Will was not attracted to Jas. I think he found her beautiful until he lost interest in their relationship. They seemed to click until the bills discussion. Jas making him dinner in her lingerie isn’t putting in any more effort in the relationship than his making breakfast. She criticized him. He wasn’t moved by her offering. Didn’t he pass a comment about her wanting a new car or something? That he thought she was only  doing something for him us because she wanted something says to me that there have been other conversations that lead to this concern. On another note....he told Jas that he wanted the sexy librarian look and she comes out in sexy lingerie. That is not the same thing. She didn’t hear him or didn’t care what he said he wanted. Look, my friend isn’t interested in lingerie. He thinks it is pointless bc it was all coming off. He did make a comment about a school girl so I might make that happen. 😂 Point is, if you are trying to entice a man, do what he says he finds sexy.

i still think that if they can talk honestly they have a better chance than Stephanie and AJ if they decide to reconnect. I really want them to work it out even though their “today” relationship sucks. Make some changes and it can be good. Unfortunately Jas will have to make the most mental changes to make this work.

[spunky]

1 hour ago, LuvMyShows said:

I suspect that she was worried about daddy's disapproval that she couldn't make it work with a Lincoln guy, rather than having her eyes opened that she and Will were a terrible match and are sooo much better off not being married.  I hope next week's reconciliation-ish preview is just producer shenanigans.

Have we ever seen a couple before where the experts were glad/approving that they got a divorce?  I think that if Jessica and Hundy Ryan had been aired in this day and age, when there's more consciousness of how abuse really manifests itself, maybe the experts wouldn't have pressured her the way they did.  OTOH, knowing our beloved 'experts', maybe not!

Pastor Cal was the only expert to call Luke out to his face and told him to man up or leave.  I believe he would have called Ryan out on his crap if he were an expert during that horrific season. 

[Ilovepie]

Just now, scruffy73 said:

i still think that if they can talk honestly they have a better chance than Stephanie and AJ if they decide to reconnect.

I do not ever see this happening. These two have fundamentally different goals in life. Although I can't stand her, I think Dr. Jess's conversation about the difference between compromise and sacrifice was valid. Any shift from either of them towards what the other wants is more of a sacrifice than a compromise. It just wouldn't work out. Look at Cortney and Jason or Tom and Lilly for what that looks like down the road. Will made the right choice, and he is also correct, that in time Jasmine will see that too. I think her pride was hurt more than anything else last night.

Just now, spunky said:

I believe he would have called Ryan out on his crap if he were an expert during that horrific season. 

Which one??? They have all been turds. The show is 0 for 3 in the Ryan casting department..........

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, dirtypop90 said:

Jasmine never made fun of Will's upbringing.  She just said it was different.

---

I was only surprised by Kate this ep.  Pleasantly so.

I wanted all of the women to say "divorce," but knew Stephanie and Kristine would not.  I do not expect their pairings to work.  AJ is a loose canon.  And Kristine is already starting to look worn out; "raising a man" is hard work.  I expect her to walk soon-ish.

My issue with Will all season has been his lack of honesty. He couldn't even look Jasmine in the eyes the majority of the time because he was not being honest.  I do believe Jas was blindsided because Will didn't tell her he wasn't attracted to her, when he so obviously isn't.  In fact, I think he told her the opposite, which is why she ignored the glaringly obvious signs that he wasn't physically attracted to her.  He could have at least whispered it to her when the cameras weren't rolling.  I've personally seen it since the wedding.  He showed zero excitement about Jas after he saw her.  Will not wanting to pay all the bills was not their biggest hurdle.  I've known men to say they will not do a lot of things and for women they weren't really attracted to and completely flip the script when they get a woman they thought was hot.  I think we would have gotten a completely different Will if he were paired with a woman that he was physically attracted to.  He refusal to "bend" on anything or to even really try with Jas was because he wasn't physically attracted to her.

Well this is true. I know of a girl from college who always expected that a man would support her in a comfortable lifestyle and she could do whatever she wanted. We tried to tell her how one sided and selfish she was but she was daddy’s little princess and that was not going to change after she got married. She was what most people would consider very pretty. She married well, had a part time nanny and a full time housekeeper. She is like on her eighth job because she is still trying to still “ find herself” and she pretty much quits whenever she feels like it. Her husband adores her and gives her everything. Meanwhile a lot of us are working our asses off helping to support a family and run a household. Sometimes life is not fair and if Jasmine is truly looking for that type of situation then she would have never been happy with Will.

Edited April 3, 2019 by qtpye

[dirtypop90]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

She didn't make fun of his upbringing, but her voice, and body language said it all.   Jasmine said "different" because she didn't want to say, "not as well off as I've grown up."  

To me, Jasmine was toast when she said that because Will is the man, he should pay all the bills.  What year is she living in?

Well, even saying he was "not as well of," is not making fun of his background.  If anything, she just stated a fact.  That's all I was saying.  

There are men paying all their household bills in 2019.  I work with several.  To each his/her own.

--

Will was just simply not physically attracted to her, period.  IMO  Nothing she could've said/done would change that.  Men do not act the way Will acted towards Jasmine when they are physically attracted to a woman.  

Did anyone watch Rachel Lindsay's season of the Bachelorette?  This Will reminds me of Will Gaskins from Rachel's season (except will g. was hot).  Rachel just didn't get why he was so animated during group dates, but would clam up when they were alone and it was time for "romance."  She didn't get why he wasn't affectionate at all towards her, though he was friendly towards her.  And come to find out...she just wasn't his type; he admitted he didn't typically date women that looked like her and his current gf (after he left the show) looks nothing like her.  But he told Rachel he was attracted to her, his actions however said otherwise--Rachel had to ASK him for a kiss on their date.  And Will said he was usually physically affectionate in his relationships.  I see the same thing between this Will and Jasmine.  Actions speak louder than words.

Edited April 3, 2019 by dirtypop90

[2727]

Luke's verbal workarounds to avoid giving Kate a direct compliment are so fucking weird! 

"I like home-brined pickles and you live in a world where they exist, so that's something I find attractive about you."

He's a thorough gaslighter and manipulator yet can't be bothered to make up something nice about Kate. You lie all the time, dude. Just lie!

[Elizzikra]

Quote

I disagree that Will was not attracted to Jas. I think he found her beautiful

I think that Will found Jasmine to be attractive, objectively. I don't think that he was attracted to her but I think he thought she was pretty.

Unrelated - what was up with Dr. Pepper asking Kate and Luke how they managed to have sex without attraction? Seriously - what was the looking for there? Like how, mechanically, did they manage to get Performance Ready in the absence of basic attraction? Were props and tools involved? Honestly, I don't know what she expected them to say on television - even given that they came on a show knowing they would be revealing intensely personal details of their lives. Was she trying to imply that there was some attraction there that they weren't admitting? I thought that was the strangest part of the entire Luke and Kate segment - and that's a high bar.

I did cheer out loud when Kate announced that they should go their separate ways. Those two are better off far, far apart. 

Quote

I like home-brined pickles

I think Luke is just the sort of hipster that would get as excited about home brined pickles as he was his homemade pasta sauce with capers...

Edited April 3, 2019 by Elizzikra

[Claire Voyant]

1 hour ago, Kareem said:

Will may not have been lying when he said he was attracted to her (initially).  I also don't believe he was lying when he kept mentioning communication.  An example is her Gimme Sex dinner, where he knew she was bucking for something and she asked him a question, got an answer and moved on to the next question.  That was no discussion.  That was Dan Rather.  And in her brain, she filed it under communication and was ready for sex.  He suggested going to bed.  She made the grand entrance into the bedroom saying "Dahling!  Dahling!"  Time to play the experts kissing game or some such thing.  Jasmine can't read a room.  I think that's also why she said that she felt he was leaning towards staying together and "stressing" over it. I don't think she listens very well or realizes how condescending she appears whether the subject is pancakes, parks or pay checks.  

Kristine wasn't on board with everything out of Keith's mouth and aside from the one dinner where she told him to hold up on the kids and the dog, she was fun, friendly and willing to enjoy the time with him. Jasmine was either condescending or went into "no use talking about it because we don't agree" mode.  She did it in the car, did it in the bowling alley, etc. I believe he did try but things never improved, and I still give him credit for not boinking his way to D day.  It was so sad watching her hurt reaction to his decision because she didn't seem to understand.  Then she accused him of being selfish and the rest so she went back to being the "Jasmine's always right" she's been.  

I didn't like that Cal tried to give Will a raft of grief for saying thanks but no thanks.  He doesn't have to live with The World According Jasmine.  There's someone out there for Jasmine but it had to have been a tough seven weeks for Will.  He seemed so normal with everyone else - his friend, the mini-mooners and her family.  He recognized that AJ was an ass so maybe I gave him too many points for that.

Jazmine really lost me when she and Will were looking at their wedding pictures.  She said Will was so nervous.  Will said he wasn't nervous.  Jazmine said, "Yes, you were."  I wanted to smack her one upside her vapid head and tell her to stop trying to tell Will how he was feeling, how he should act, how he should provide, how he should think.  Honest to Pete, she was kind of a PITA. 

You will make money which you will give to me.  You will not do the things you want to do unless I say it's worthwhile, which it won't be unless there's money to be made.  You don't know how you feel.  I will tell you. 

Why haven't you succumbed to my formidable brain power which should have excited you weeks ago?  What do you mean you aren't turned on by my Mata Hari moves and my plunging neckline negligee?  I kissed you with all the feeling a kissing experiment could give and nothing.   Next time, there better be a car.   Now, get back in here and love me

[aphroditewitch]

14 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

Unrelated - what was up with Dr. Pepper asking Kate and Luke how they managed to have sex without attraction? Seriously - what was the looking for there? Like how, mechanically, did they manage to get Performance Ready in the absence of basic attraction? Were props and tools involved? Honestly, I don't know what she expected them to say on television - even given that they came on a show knowing they would be revealing intensely personal details of their lives. Was she trying to imply that there was some attraction there that they weren't admitting? I thought that was the strangest part of the entire Luke and Kate segment - and that's a high bar.

I did cheer out loud when Kate announced that they should go their separate ways. Those two are better off far, far apart. 

I think Luke is just the sort of hipster that would get as excited about home brined pickles as he was his homemade pasta sauce with capers...

I think Dr. Pepper was looking for Luke to explain why he would have sex with a woman he has repeatedly said he is not attracted to. And in typical Luke fashion, he refused to explain himself and Kate said her thoughts on that issue. I don't think it was an unfair question. He was playing a cruel game with Kate all season where he would sort of compliment her one minute and then he would verbally attack during the next. It seemed to me that Kate was being sarcastic with him by saying something like "and you actually like me now" in the minutes before she said she was done with the marriage.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

I think Dr. Pepper was looking for Luke to explain why he would have sex with a woman he has repeatedly said he is not attracted to. And in typical Luke fashion, he refused to explain himself and Kate said her thoughts on that issue. I don't think it was an unfair question. He was playing a cruel game with Kate all season where he would sort of compliment her one minute and then he would verbally attack during the next. It seemed to me that Kate was being sarcastic with him by saying something like "and you actually like me now" in the minutes before she said she was done with the marriage.

I understand asking "why" - I would like to hear the answer to that myself (although I think Luke has bullshitted his way out of it in the past by saying he did it because he knew it was important to Kate). But Dr. Pepper specifically asked "how" - at a minimum, strange word choice. I think Kate and Luke were confused by it as well...

Also, hooray for when Luke tried to evade this line of questioning and Blondie said pointedly, "Kate can answer if she would like." And then Kate did.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Elizzikra

[spunky]

1 hour ago, Ilovepie said:

I do not ever see this happening. These two have fundamentally different goals in life. Although I can't stand her, I think Dr. Jess's conversation about the difference between compromise and sacrifice was valid. Any shift from either of them towards what the other wants is more of a sacrifice than a compromise. It just wouldn't work out. Look at Cortney and Jason or Tom and Lilly for what that looks like down the road. Will made the right choice, and he is also correct, that in time Jasmine will see that too. I think her pride was hurt more than anything else last night.

Which one??? They have all been turds. The show is 0 for 3 in the Ryan casting department..........

Verbally abusive , stalker Ryan from season 2, who was matched with Jessica. He actually makes  Luke look like a saint. 

[Booger666]

I liked that Dr P asked that, too.  Luke says there are things about Kate he finds attractive, he is a big cuddler in bed, initiates sex a few times ... then the weird behavior and saying he isn’t attracted to her.  I don’t think Dr P was looking for a particular answer.  Maybe, like me, she was wondering what lie he would spin or if he would finally own up to his very odd and shitty behavior.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Booger666

[Crazy Bird Lady]

Dr. Pepper is their "sexologist," so I wasn't really surprised when she asked "how" Puke and Kate had sex. 

1 minute ago, Booger666 said:

I liked that Dr P asked that, too.  Luke says there are things about Kate he finds attractive, he is a big cuddler in bed, initiates sex a few times ... then the weird behavior and saying he isn’t attracted to him.  I don’t think Dr P was looking for a particular answer.  Maybe, like me, she was wondering what lie he would spin or if he would finally own up to his very odd and shitty behavior.

Or maybe, she wanted to know how Luke could get a boner if he wasn't attracted to Kate. 

Dr. P actually had a point. Kate has repeatedly described Puke hugging and "cuddling" with her in bed, bare-chested, which (presumably) involved (arousing) skin-to-skin contact --and she said that was the source of her confusion about whether (or not) Puke was attracted to her.

How could Puke have had sex with Kate, several times, if he wasn't aroused?  Arousal is sexual attraction, and I can't imagine Kate bringing along sex toys for the occasion! Puke tries to play the victim --as if Kate somehow coerced him into having sex with her against his wishes -but he must have been aroused! 

[Stella Rose]

I can understand not being attracted to someone to the point of it being sick-inducing.  That in no way excuses Luke's horrid, gas-lighting behavior, but it does not necessarily shove him over to the Gay side. 

I think he is a narcissist, a snob, and a total prig.  Whether he likes boys - I don't know - nor care.  I do know he treated Kate beyond shabbily from minute one.  She was never going to be good enough, but he still needed to demean and possess her.

He gave her just barely enough attention and care to make her feel he was in...   then he pulled back.  He played horrid mind games on her and used sex as a weapon against her.  Having lived with an abusive husband for 14 years, I know the signs. 

Had she not run, within a year he would have been beating her 'for her own good"  "hitting her to teach her a lesson",   making *her* apologize for it all - because it's her fault she is not good enough.  He then comes back, flowers in hand, slightly contrite, but then he forces her to suck his dick or take it rough in the ass whether she likes it or not..   (pardon the graphic, but true) 

 He disgusts me.  I hope he finds his own peace and never hurts anyone like this ever again.  He makes me sick and is bringing back all kinds of nasty memories.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Stella Rose

[seacliffsal]

While watching this episode it really hit me that Jasmine has a disconnect between her words/actions and her perception of them.  She stated that she had worked on her communication, but we have seen that she asked Will questions without follow-ups and considered that intellectually stimulating.  I also think she really doesn't realize that she continually put him down and/or corrected him about everything.  Even in this episode the experts asked what was the most positive part of the experience and after Will answers (good friend...) she goes on about how Will always wants to be right and needs to set financial goals.  She didn't listen to or answer the question, she just got out another criticism of Will.  I really think she doesn't understand the interactions of a relationship beyond just expressing herself and her desires.

I'm so glad that Will said he wanted a divorce.  It's really the best for both of them.

Am looking forward to the reunion next week!

[DrewPaul2010]

The final show had a bit more punch with four couples rather than two. However I still channel flip as I watch it.

-Jasmine and Will

I think Jasmine only agreed to stay married to see if Will was willing. Will wants to save the world he should remain single, being married will get in his way. Just as well they are parting ways there relationship was contentious the majority of the time.

AJ and Stephanie,

I hope for her sake he can be a good husband. I'm leaning toward him being too much to bear and they may be separated or divorced. If I was only 20 years younger I'd love a date she is a wonderful woman.

Kate and Luke.

Least surprise they are parting ways. Its one of the few times I think all involved were relieved. They should have opened the bubbly. I think the gay comment alluded to was just a tease and won't turn out to be a real situation. If there is something to it this is disastrous to the show. Not because he's gay (if that's the case) but he pretended to be otherwise. His personal mannerisms and affectations make my skin crawl. His hair looked particularly bad. I'd say out of a hundred guys with decent looks (not male model) a decent job decent temperament 99 would be thrilled to their toes with Kate and would bend over backwards to have a happy marriage. I've defended the experts in the past but this is a total blow. I pin the tail on them.

I expect to see Keith and Kristine married next week. They truly seem to love one another and that can make things work.

[aphroditewitch]

12 minutes ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

Dr. Pepper is their "sexologist," so I wasn't really surprised when she asked "how" Puke and Kate had sex. 

Or maybe, she wanted to know how Luke could get a boner if he wasn't attracted to Kate. 

Dr. P actually had a point. Kate has repeatedly described Puke hugging and "cuddling" with her in bed, bare-chested, which (presumably) involved (arousing) skin-to-skin contact --and she said that was the source of her confusion about whether (or not) Puke was attracted to her.

How could Puke have had sex with Kate, several times, if he wasn't aroused?  Arousal is sexual attraction, and I can't imagine Kate bringing along sex toys for the occasion! Puke tries to play the victim --as if Kate somehow coerced him into having sex with her against his wishes -but he must have been aroused! 

Presumably the same way a male porn star does. I don't think the how is all the complicated.

[spunky]

12 hours ago, antfitz said:

12 years for his degree and he doesn't have it yet??  OMG I missed that . I think Granny was babying him.

4 years for his BSN, then another 3-4 years of medical school and about 4 or more years of residency, before he can become a licensed doctor (according to google).  Hence her hesitation to have a baby within the next five years .