S09.E10: This Can Go One of Two Ways

TheRealT · March 20, 2019

5 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

The whole “rescue from the Linds” thing was a bit much. I understand that it’s still not following the agreement so they were justified in leaving to get her immediately. I don’t think it should have been Cole alone who went to pick her up and (supposedly) said all of those things to Donna. There was no need for the swearing and dramatics. Just leave, pick her up and then contact your attorney or whoever, explain and show them the message. I agree the Linds don’t seem to understand that their son sucks compete ass in all ways, especially as a father so just contact the proper people and do what you need to do officially without all the theatrics, especially from Cole who seems to be enjoying his “perfect guy” role a bit too much. Yeah, Chelsea, your MOM is the only one pushing the adoption things. Sure, Jan. You ALL need to stfu about it. Aubree may NEVER want to be adopted. Imagine that.

Yeah. I'm torn because I think the whole, "OMG, Adam can never be in Aubree's presence outside the visitation center!" thing is a bit melodramatic, but I also understand how it's important to maintain strong boundaries with Adam to protect Aubree.

For me, part of it is that Chelsea and Cole seem to enjoy (mostly) excluding Adam from Aubree's life so much. They're certainly not obligated to do so, but they could (for example) agree to let Adam attend Lind family gatherings with Aubree if Chelsea/Cole/another family member could be present as well. Again, they're totally not obligated to do so, but it would be a nice way to compromise and allow Adam to have contact with Aubree in a safe environment, possibly an environment that would be healthier/happier for Aubree than the visitation center. I totally get them being concerned about the Linds allowing Adam to drive Aubree (or whatever), but if safeguards were in place to prevent anything like that, it's probably healthy for Aubree to see Adam within the context of a family gathering (where he's less likely to be high/behaving inappropriately, etc.). I don't think they should consider something like that to be nice/fair to Adam/the Linds, but to give Aubree the best opportunity to have positive, healthy time with her dad/be part of family gatherings including her dad. If the worst happens, it will be good for Aubree to have happy memories of playing ping pong or eating Grandma Donna's famous fried chicken with her dad rather than just remembering him standing her up at the visitation center.

And, though Adam is clearly a piece of shit and a lousy father, he is also clearly a fucked up person with significant emotional issues. Maybe he is too overcome with shame/guilt/anger/etc. to complete visits at the visitation center. Yes, that's his problem and yes, that makes him a lousy dad, but, I don't think even Adam is claiming that he's not fucked up. If he's more comfortable visiting with Aubree at his parents' house, that's something that deserves some consideration (ideally, though C&C don't have to be "ideal").

Mkay · March 20, 2019

2 hours ago, Christina87 said:

Who would have ever expected coley to turn out like this? A season or two ago, I thought his version of cursing was, "golly gee whiz, I'm upset!" Nobody truly changes that much that fast, so he was either not being his authentic self then, or now. When people say they're being fake, or putting on a front, that's what we're talking about. For whatever reason, he feels comfortable being his foul-language self now, and it's not a good look, either. It kind of makes you wonder what else they're hiding, too, behind the perfect facade. I suppose it's possible that the cursing is also part of a facade, but a new one...a "hard core coley"...because of their storyline, where he gets to be the angry hero who is pissed at the situation and jumps in to save everyone.

I don’t cuss. I did in my 20s when I thought it sounded cool. Once I had my daughter I stopped. I may say it occasionally in my head when o drop something on my foot and smash my hand. Or if I’m really angry and my daughter isn’t around a word slips. Or someone stupid on the road pulls out in front of me. I know she’s heard worse at school. She’s in middle school. Her friends call her innocent because she doesn’t say those words or know what some mean. Cole may not cuss on a daily bases. But in the heat of the moment I can’t say it wouldn’t have slipped out of my mouth, too. That would infuriate me. Then I’d be flying to Donna’s house to put the smack down on her. Ha!

Kail says the F word on a regular bases in front of her boys. Especially with her “F*** Boy” air freshener she had hanging from her rear view mirror last season.

Pixiebomb · March 20, 2019

11 hours ago, Mkay said:

She had it. Her sister has already had the baby, too

Which one is the pregnant one?

(yes I know which one really- and normally I wouldn’t say anything about someone’s weight. But Kail did this to herself with her surgeries. and she is really irritating me with the “reduction” nonsense which a quick and very temporary fix due to her lifestyle. She should get to the gym and get some endorphins going and she would be a happier, healthier person. Whole 30 eating habits wouldn’t hurt either. )

HorrrGoodnight · March 20, 2019

9 hours ago, TheRealT said:

What I don't get about all the Cole adopting Aubree drama is, shouldn't Chelsea be discussing this with Adam first? If he doesn't agree to it, it doesn't matter what Aubree (or Cole, or Randy, or Lois, or the clerk at the frozen yogurt shop) think. I don't see the point of even presenting it as a possibility to Aubree in the absence of Adam at least participating in the conversation.

Kail is seriously MAKING A FOOL OF HERSELF over Chris. I don't like her, at all, but I even feel a little bad for her. (Well, not really.) She's so "Pride over Pity" and Boss Bitch! She didn't talk to him for five whole days! And if he keeps this shit up, after like one more year she'll be out! For reals! I mean, it's been 3 years (off and on), so one more year and that's it!

I think they don't want to give Adumb the heads up on anything. I really wish they would just DROP IT already and discuss alternatives with the lawyer to protect Aubree if something happens to Chelsea.

Christina87 · March 20, 2019

6 hours ago, TheRealT said:

Yeah. I'm torn because I think the whole, "OMG, Adam can never be in Aubree's presence outside the visitation center!" thing is a bit melodramatic, but I also understand how it's important to maintain strong boundaries with Adam to protect Aubree.

For me, part of it is that Chelsea and Cole seem to enjoy (mostly) excluding Adam from Aubree's life so much. They're certainly not obligated to do so, but they could (for example) agree to let Adam attend Lind family gatherings with Aubree if Chelsea/Cole/another family member could be present as well. Again, they're totally not obligated to do so, but it would be a nice way to compromise and allow Adam to have contact with Aubree in a safe environment, possibly an environment that would be healthier/happier for Aubree than the visitation center. I totally get them being concerned about the Linds allowing Adam to drive Aubree (or whatever), but if safeguards were in place to prevent anything like that, it's probably healthy for Aubree to see Adam within the context of a family gathering (where he's less likely to be high/behaving inappropriately, etc.). I don't think they should consider something like that to be nice/fair to Adam/the Linds, but to give Aubree the best opportunity to have positive, healthy time with her dad/be part of family gatherings including her dad. If the worst happens, it will be good for Aubree to have happy memories of playing ping pong or eating Grandma Donna's famous fried chicken with her dad rather than just remembering him standing her up at the visitation center.

And, though Adam is clearly a piece of shit and a lousy father, he is also clearly a fucked up person with significant emotional issues. Maybe he is too overcome with shame/guilt/anger/etc. to complete visits at the visitation center. Yes, that's his problem and yes, that makes him a lousy dad, but, I don't think even Adam is claiming that he's not fucked up. If he's more comfortable visiting with Aubree at his parents' house, that's something that deserves some consideration (ideally, though C&C don't have to be "ideal").

This makes soooo much sense, and is the best post I have seen on this topic! I wish someone could email this to Chelsea and Cole!

druzy · March 20, 2019

I think Chelsea and Cole make Aubree feel guilty about loving her father. Also Aubree probably feels the need to agree with C&C when they bash Adam because it's easier to go along with them. It's sad.

FlowerofCarnage · March 20, 2019

9 hours ago, Rebecca said:

So I heard on a podcast that Briana and Brittany’s last name isn’t even DeJesus, it’s Soto, which is the last name of Briana’s biological father and who Brittany thought was her father until revealed otherwise on Family Therapy. It definitely appears to be true. If you google Briana Dejesus Soto the first result is for “Novalicious Cooperation” (lol...did she mean Corporation?) and at the link you can see their tax filing or whatever. A screenshot is below with their address blurred out.

So anyway, they have a different name than Roxanne. Therefore, the 5 of them living in that apartment will have 4 different last names between them. Are they trying to confuse the shit out of Nova with all of this? What name does she actually have herself, DeJesus or Soto? What does she write at school? And now they’re trying to change it for no real reason?!

Due to my line of work, I've seen enough birth certificates issued in PR to know that Brianna's name is most like Briana Soto-DeJesus. It's a cultural thing to have both parents last names with the mother's name being last so Briana going by DeJesus is technically going by her last name. @Dance4Life can probably explain it better than I can.

Mr. Miner · March 20, 2019

17 hours ago, Dance4Life said:

But, of course, Adam is the bigger fuck up here!

Adumb is probably the biggest POS sperm donor on either of the TM franchises. Congratulations Donna! you enabling, dumbass bitch!

BitterApple · March 20, 2019

I don't think Aubree was in any danger at the Linds. With that said, I'm sure Chelsea's attorney told her to be a stickler about the court order. Adam's family seems to be a "give an inch, take a mile" type of crowd, so I can understand not letting them slide one time only for them to keep doing it in the future.

I 100% don't believe Cole had some big confrontation with the Linds. For all his posturing, he's not an alpha dog. I imagine the hand-off was pretty straightforward, especially considering Donna had no choice in the matter.

I absolutely believe Chelsea has no issue with Mary putting the adoption bug in Aubree's head, she just doesn't want her to say it on camera. Chelsea's not the brightest bulb, but even she has enough smarts to know it doesn't play out well to the viewers.

MaggieG · March 20, 2019

I truly do not understand what Kail sees in Chris.

Barb was cute with her reaction to seeing the Empire State Building

guilfoyleatpp · March 20, 2019

Watching Kailyn contort herself to justify Chris is so painful. I know she is not a great person in relationships, but it makes me cringe for her. Yikes.

And yet a small part of me feels like she deserves it and maybe Jo and Javi are secretly (or not secretly) feeling smug about her chasing after Chris and being constantly thwarted/humiliated.

She can't even approach him nice. Like, her walking up to him at the party all confrontational...that's your best bit? No "kill him with kindness" or "thanks for coming, I know it's awkward," but that bullshit accusing him of avoiding her?

Chelsea's mom is too much. I just realized that her stage whispers and manner of speaking is strongly reminiscent of Kevin from The Office. And yeah, Mary, if your daughter tells you not to discuss something with your grandchild, you don't argue the point. STFU. Chelsea also doesn't have a light touch for difficult conversations, but compared with Mary she's fucking tinkerbell. "DOES ADUMMM KNOW ABOUT COLE?"

I don't know if Cole had that extended conversation with the Linds or not. He and Chelsea both need to learn not to engage in front of Aubree. Adam's mom playing dumb is enraging, but they know that's what she does. So make the quick and clean exit, say "call us later and we'll talk about it" and then lower the boom. Aubree doesn't need to see that shit. The more I think about it, the more Adam's mom sounds like our lunatic next door neighbor. When given the opportunity to make the right choice and take responsibility for something, she always side steps and denies. It is one of the things that is most alarming. Her first instinct is to minimize and lie. That's probably pretty close to how Adam got so out of control.

Jax7917 · March 20, 2019

11 hours ago, TheRealT said:

Yeah. I'm torn because I think the whole, "OMG, Adam can never be in Aubree's presence outside the visitation center!" thing is a bit melodramatic, but I also understand how it's important to maintain strong boundaries with Adam to protect Aubree.

For me, part of it is that Chelsea and Cole seem to enjoy (mostly) excluding Adam from Aubree's life so much. They're certainly not obligated to do so, but they could (for example) agree to let Adam attend Lind family gatherings with Aubree if Chelsea/Cole/another family member could be present as well. Again, they're totally not obligated to do so, but it would be a nice way to compromise and allow Adam to have contact with Aubree in a safe environment, possibly an environment that would be healthier/happier for Aubree than the visitation center. I totally get them being concerned about the Linds allowing Adam to drive Aubree (or whatever), but if safeguards were in place to prevent anything like that, it's probably healthy for Aubree to see Adam within the context of a family gathering (where he's less likely to be high/behaving inappropriately, etc.). I don't think they should consider something like that to be nice/fair to Adam/the Linds, but to give Aubree the best opportunity to have positive, healthy time with her dad/be part of family gatherings including her dad. If the worst happens, it will be good for Aubree to have happy memories of playing ping pong or eating Grandma Donna's famous fried chicken with her dad rather than just remembering him standing her up at the visitation center.

And, though Adam is clearly a piece of shit and a lousy father, he is also clearly a fucked up person with significant emotional issues. Maybe he is too overcome with shame/guilt/anger/etc. to complete visits at the visitation center. Yes, that's his problem and yes, that makes him a lousy dad, but, I don't think even Adam is claiming that he's not fucked up. If he's more comfortable visiting with Aubree at his parents' house, that's something that deserves some consideration (ideally, though C&C don't have to be "ideal").

I think it's easy to say all of that, but Chelsea's been more than kind when it comes to giving Adam chances, and I know if I were in her position, I wouldn't be nearly as good as she's been. Adam is more than just a piece of shit. He's a dangerous piece of shit. He's broken the law more times than any of us can count, and constantly puts himself in dangerous situations with all the car "accidents", drugs, etc. He clearly puts his lifestyle over his daughter, and never seems to take her into any sort of consideration. I'm sorry, but if he can't make it to the visitation center one time to see his daughter, then he deserves no rights. And as for his parents, put yourself in Chelsea's situation. You have a court order that Adam can only see his daughter at the visitation center and when she is with her grandparents , Adam is to not be there. But yet, they have broken that rule over and over. Grandparents do not generally have rights. Instead of being appreciative that they are allowed to spend time with Aubrey even though their son is a menace to society, they go against the court order and obviously can't be trusted. Now do I think Chelsea and Cole go overboard in talking about Cole adopting Aubree over and over again and the fact that Cole is a way better father than Adam will ever be? Yeah, I do. But that's really their only fault IMO.

Dance4Life · March 20, 2019

3 hours ago, FlowerofCarnage said:

Due to my line of work, I've seen enough birth certificates issued in PR to know that Brianna's name is most like Briana Soto-DeJesus. It's a cultural thing to have both parents last names with the mother's name being last so Briana going by DeJesus is technically going by her last name. @Dance4Life can probably explain it better than I can.

Her name is Briana Soto (paternal) De Jesus (maternal).

This is how the LEGAL name is written in PR......per Spanish custom.

All kids (new name registry need to have their names like this)

BUT, because then we end up with a bunch of names (a minimum of 3 plus the middle names).......we can informally choose our own name.

(Your legal name must be on all formal documents, though)

Briana can choose....Briana Soto. Briana De Jesus. Briana Soto De Jesus. Or, even Briana Soto y De Jesus.

The ‘y’ means ‘and.’ You do this so people know which one is the middle name and the surnames.

It is all good!

Roxanne’s ‘De Jesus’ is probably her married name. (Or, maternal surname)

In Spanish custom women add ‘De’ in front of husband’s surname. De = of.

Roxanne (wife) of (de) Jesus.

It can be De or de.

For feminine word...De la ****.

Like....if the last name is Rosa. Then it is Roxanne De la Rosa.

(Not Roxanne De Rosa)

tagging @FlowerofCarnage @Rebecca

Britney is right! The more names...the cooler the kid! 🤣

Edited March 20, 2019 by Dance4Life

Rebecca · March 20, 2019

3 hours ago, FlowerofCarnage said:

Due to my line of work, I've seen enough birth certificates issued in PR to know that Brianna's name is most like Briana Soto-DeJesus. It's a cultural thing to have both parents last names with the mother's name being last so Briana going by DeJesus is technically going by her last name. @Dance4Life can probably explain it better than I can.

I don’t know because none of the official stuff lists DeJesus for them at all, not even once and I looked at several things. I don’t remember what the podcast said exactly but I think they said that Briana said that DeJesus wasn’t actually her last name. Were they born in PR? They don’t seem very close to the culture, IMO.

1 minute ago, Dance4Life said:

Her name is Briana Soto (paternal) De Jesus (maternal).

This is how the LEGAL name is written in PR......per Spanish custom.

All kids (new name registry need to have their names like this)

BUT, because then we end up with a bunch of names (a minimum of 3 plus the middle names).......we can informally choose our own name.

(Your legal name must be on all formal documents, though)

Briana can choose....Briana Soto. Briana De Jesus. Briana Soto De Jesus.

It is all good!

Roxanne’s ‘De Jesus’ is probably her married name. In Spanish custom women add ‘De’ in front of husband’s surname. De = of.

Roxanne (wife) of (de) Jesus.

It can be De or de.

For feminine word...De la ****.

Like....if the last name is Rosa. Then it is Roxanne De la Rosa.

(Not Roxanne De Rosa)

This is true in PR etc but not necessarily if they were born in the US. Has Roxanne even been married?

Dance4Life · March 20, 2019

30 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

I don’t know because none of the official stuff lists DeJesus for them at all, not even once and I looked at several things. I don’t remember what the podcast said exactly but I think they said that Briana said that DeJesus wasn’t actually her last name. Were they born in PR? They don’t seem very close to the culture, IMO.

This is true in PR etc but not necessarily if they were born in the US. Has Roxanne even been married?

This is the legal system in PR. It is a Spanish custom.

Customs are practiced anywhere in the world by all cultures.

This is done all over Europe and the Middle East.

The reason it is not done in the USA is because we don’t have any nobility. We are the most simple informal country in the world. We are also the newest.

Yes, back in the days...it was necessary to keep all your names.....so, they can trace your family and where you are from. It was a way to distinguished yourself even if you were not nobility.

This is why it is still practice in PR. It is very important! Especially now with the popularity of DNA tests and people taking up ancestry as a hobby.

PR people also US citizens. Everything is regconized in USA...legally.

Did you come across her birth certificate?

She gave Nova....De Jesus.

I do not have kids.

What are the laws at the hospital?

If no dad....then it gets mother’s last name....or, you can use whatever last name you want?

There is clearly no dad listed on Novas birth certificate. Or, is this only.....that Briana didn’t name her Austin.

Can you put down a father’s name.....but, not give baby his last name?

If Nova is De Jesus....then Briana must have it.

Mothers.....????!

(do you think maybe Briana meant....De Jesus....wasn’t her name as it is not her dads name trying to explain our naming practices?)

De Jesus is a married woman’s name. Either her own or moms. That ‘De’ is important! Lol

Yes, these folks are the most non-Puerto Ricans I have ever seen).

Edited March 20, 2019 by Dance4Life

Christina87 · March 20, 2019

1 hour ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

Watching Kailyn contort herself to justify Chris is so painful. I know she is not a great person in relationships, but it makes me cringe for her. Yikes.

And yet a small part of me feels like she deserves it and maybe Jo and Javi are secretly (or not secretly) feeling smug about her chasing after Chris and being constantly thwarted/humiliated.

She can't even approach him nice. Like, her walking up to him at the party all confrontational...that's your best bit? No "kill him with kindness" or "thanks for coming, I know it's awkward," but that bullshit accusing him of avoiding her?

Chelsea's mom is too much. I just realized that her stage whispers and manner of speaking is strongly reminiscent of Kevin from The Office. And yeah, Mary, if your daughter tells you not to discuss something with your grandchild, you don't argue the point. STFU. Chelsea also doesn't have a light touch for difficult conversations, but compared with Mary she's fucking tinkerbell. "DOES ADUMMM KNOW ABOUT COLE?"

I don't know if Cole had that extended conversation with the Linds or not. He and Chelsea both need to learn not to engage in front of Aubree. Adam's mom playing dumb is enraging, but they know that's what she does. So make the quick and clean exit, say "call us later and we'll talk about it" and then lower the boom. Aubree doesn't need to see that shit. The more I think about it, the more Adam's mom sounds like our lunatic next door neighbor. When given the opportunity to make the right choice and take responsibility for something, she always side steps and denies. It is one of the things that is most alarming. Her first instinct is to minimize and lie. That's probably pretty close to how Adam got so out of control.

I agree that Chelsea's mom is not bright, but if my mom was telling my hypothetical child something, I'd want to hear her out about what she was saying and why. Then again, my mom is smart, and we have a great relationship, and I more often than not take her advice. I wonder if Chelsea would feel differently if Randy were pushing the adoption narrative with Aubree. She'd probably be jumping up and down ecstatically! Of course, there is a big difference in Randy and Mary's intelligence, and that can be taken into account, but it's always like Chelsea thinks anything Mary has to say is worthless. Sometimes I think Mary thinks the only way she can have a relationship with Chelsea is if she says / does exactly what she thinks Chelsea wants, and she probably felt like pushing the adoption thing was what Chelsea wanted. Remember early in the show, when Chelsea was taking forever to get her GED and moving adam in and out, when she didn't see Randy as much? She had a period where she relied on Mary more, because Mary would squeal, "soooo, tell me about adammmm!" the second she walked through the door, while Randy was more critical. Mary probably is giving Chelsea what she wants to hear, unaware that Chelsea's agenda around the cameras is different.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Christina87

BitterApple · March 20, 2019

59 minutes ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

Watching Kailyn contort herself to justify Chris is so painful. I know she is not a great person in relationships, but it makes me cringe for her. Yikes.

I hear ya. Kail is such a hosebeast it's easy to forget that Chris is pretty loathsome himself. He knows Kail has feelings for him and he uses that to his advantage. If he has no intentions of committing to her, he shouldn't be sending her "I love you" texts and egging her on. Nor should he be sleeping with her, using her pool, taking vacations with her, etc. It's selfish and if he treats Kail like that, he'll do the same to a genuinely nice girl with a good heart.

That's not to say Kail doesn't need to smarten up and walk away, but he shouldn't be doing what he's doing either.

Christina87 · March 20, 2019

8 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I hear ya. Kail is such a hosebeast it's easy to forget that Chris is pretty loathsome himself. He knows Kail has feelings for him and he uses that to his advantage. If he has no intentions of committing to her, he shouldn't be sending her "I love you" texts and egging her on. Nor should he be sleeping with her, using her pool, taking vacations with her, etc. It's selfish and if he treats Kail like that, he'll do the same to a genuinely nice girl with a good heart.

That's not to say Kail doesn't need to smarten up and walk away, but he shouldn't be doing what he's doing either.

Exactly!!! A lot of people say, "I can see why he treats Kail like that!" but players are players. They don't work on a merit system. They're equal opportunity assholes, who will treat any woman that way, because it's their nature. They don't feel bad about it, period, no matter how mean or nice the woman is. Now, maybe if Kail were hotter, that could make him change, but that's problematic in itself. I would hate for someone to be with me because he found me hot, yet be willing to treat less attractive girls badly. That kind of guy has no character, to treat people differently based on looks. Of course, he has the right to choose not to date someone less attractive than what he wants, and either leave her alone or just be friends, but that's not what I'm talking about. I wouldn't want to be with a guy who felt obligated to date someone he didn't like, but if I ever found out he led someone on like that in the recent past, I'd be gone. There is nothing Kail could do to make him change, or any other girl in her attractiveness range, no matter what personality they have. In a way, I'm glad chris has to put up with Kail being an asshole if he's going to treat her like that anyway! So many girls make it so easy and convenient for them while they're being players.

I would consider Kail relatively blameless if she hadn't tried to trap him with a baby. THAT was her big mistake!

Edited March 20, 2019 by Christina87

Dance4Life · March 20, 2019

6 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I hear ya. Kail is such a hosebeast it's easy to forget that Chris is pretty loathsome himself. He knows Kail has feelings for him and he uses that to his advantage. If he has no intentions of committing to her, he shouldn't be sending her "I love you" texts and egging her on. Nor should he be sleeping with her, using her pool, taking vacations with her, etc. It's selfish and if he treats Kail like that, he'll do the same to a genuinely nice girl with a good heart.

That's not to say Kail doesn't need to smarten up and walk away, but he shouldn't be doing what he's doing either.

After watching 16 & Pregnant seems like Kail turned out to be her mom.

Men before kids.

Rebecca · March 20, 2019

10 minutes ago, Dance4Life said:

This is the legal system in PR. It is a Spanish custom.

Customs are practiced anywhere in the world by all cultures.

This is done all over Europe and the Middle East.

The reason it is not done in the USA is because we don’t have any nobility. We are the most simple informal country in the world. We are also the newest.

Yes, back in the days...it was necessary to keep all your names.....so, they can trace your family and where you are from. It was a way to distinguished yourself even if you were not nobility.

This is why it is still practice in PR. It is very important! Especially now with the popularity of DNA tests and people taking up ancestry as a hobby.

PR people also US citizens. Everything is regconized in USA...legally.

Did you come across her birth certificate?

She gave Nova....De Jesus.

I do not have kids.

What are the laws at the hospital?

If no dad....then it gets mother’s last name....or, you can use whatever last name you want?

There is clearly no dad listed on Novas birth certificate. Or, is this only.....that Briana didn’t name her Austin.

Can you put down a father’s name.....but, not give baby his last name?

If Nova is De Jesus....then Briana must have it.

Mothers.....????!

(do you think maybe Briana meant....De Jesus....wasn’t her name as it is not her dads name trying to explain our naming practices?)

De Jesus is a married woman’s name. Either her own or moms. That ‘De’ is important! Lol

Yes, these folks are the most non-Puerto Ricans I have ever seen).

I understand that it is a legal thing in PR but if they weren’t born there then there is nothing to say they followed it at all. I don’t get personal on here that often but I am also PR (not full, however) and my family didn’t follow any of those customs. That’s where I’m coming from. There’s also the part where Brittany didn’t even know she had a different father than Briana until 2016, and Roxanne said she met Briana’s father when Brittany was already 12 months old, so there must’ve been a name change in there after her birth because she didn’t even know “Soto” at the time of Brittany’s birth to give her that name. Bottom line to me is that these people are weird with last names and think nothing of changing theirs or their kid’s! Haha! I do wish we knew what last name Nova goes by currently.

Dance4Life · March 20, 2019

58 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

I understand that it is a legal thing in PR but if they weren’t born there then there is nothing to say they followed it at all. I don’t get personal on here that often but I am also PR (not full, however) and my family didn’t follow any of those customs. That’s where I’m coming from. There’s also the part where Brittany didn’t even know she had a different father than Briana until 2016, and Roxanne said she met Briana’s father when Brittany was already 12 months old, so there must’ve been a name change in there after her birth because she didn’t even know “Soto” at the time of Brittany’s birth to give her that name. Bottom line to me is that these people are weird with last names and think nothing of changing theirs or their kid’s! Haha! I do wish we knew what last name Nova goes by currently.

You can get all your names legally if you want them. They are yours!

I only know the Coven from this show and didn’t know all that.

All this time, I thought Briana was the older sister. 🤣

Let’s say.....both fathers had the last name......Soto. (it is pretty common in PR)

De Jesus is a breath of fresh air in this situation!

De Jesus IS their maternal and maternal grandma surname. It IS for them to use as they wish.

NOW! We are at 4 baby daddies!

Looks like Stella is all good.

Nova Star Austin y De Jesus.....is her PR name.

When in doubt! Use your kid’s ‘Maury Name’ as a middle name.

In Puerto Rico.....it is all good! LMAO

Rebecca · March 20, 2019

6 minutes ago, Dance4Life said:

You can get all your names legally if you want them. They are yours!

I only know the Coven from this show and didn’t know all that.

All this time, I thought Briana was the older sister. 🤣

Let’s say.....both fathers had the last name......Soto. (it is pretty common in PR)

De Jesus is a breath of fresh air in this situation!

De Jesus IS their maternal and maternal grandma surname. It IS for them to use as they wish.

NOW! We are at 4 baby daddies!

Looks like Stella is all good.

Nova Star Austin y De Jesus.....is her PR name.

When in doubt! Use your kid’s ‘Maury Name’ as a middle name.

In Puerto Rico.....it is all good! LMAO

Here’s a good article about it, if you’re interested in investing more time into them 😆: https://teenmomjunkies.com/uncategorized/dejesus-daddy-drama

Also, Briana and Brittany haven’t had contact with Briana’s father in many years, he’s never even met Nova and they don’t know where he is. I have to question how involved he ever was, especially when they moved to Florida like 15 years ago without him.

Jeanne222 · March 20, 2019

2 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I think it's easy to say all of that, but Chelsea's been more than kind when it comes to giving Adam chances, and I know if I were in her position, I wouldn't be nearly as good as she's been. Adam is more than just a piece of shit. He's a dangerous piece of shit. He's broken the law more times than any of us can count, and constantly puts himself in dangerous situations with all the car "accidents", drugs, etc. He clearly puts his lifestyle over his daughter, and never seems to take her into any sort of consideration. I'm sorry, but if he can't make it to the visitation center one time to see his daughter, then he deserves no rights. And as for his parents, put yourself in Chelsea's situation. You have a court order that Adam can only see his daughter at the visitation center and when she is with her grandparents , Adam is to not be there. But yet, they have broken that rule over and over. Grandparents do not generally have rights. Instead of being appreciative that they are allowed to spend time with Aubrey even though their son is a menace to society, they go against the court order and obviously can't be trusted. Now do I think Chelsea and Cole go overboard in talking about Cole adopting Aubree over and over again and the fact that Cole is a way better father than Adam will ever be? Yeah, I do. But that's really their only fault IMO.

You said it so well! I think Chelsea and Cole are so fed up with Adam, attorneys and court dates. Managing a fool like Adam with a young girl seeing and hearing all!

I wish they would just all take Adam out of their lives!

But that's their story line isn't it!

FozzyBear · March 20, 2019

23 hours ago, ChocolateAddict said:

Thing is, this isn't the grandparents acting "goofy". It's the grandparents intentionally and actively ignoring a court order made for Aubree's safety because her drug addict dipshit of a father can't be trusted around her. According to their legally binding custody agreement, Adam can only see Aubree at a visitation centre. He cannot see her when she is with her grandparents because a court decided that they cannot be trusted to supervise appropriately. No ifs. No buts.

Adam's parents have a long history of ignoring court orders and putting Aubree at risk. Exhibit A: they let Adam drive Aubree around without a seatbelt when the court had forbidden it because he nearly killed himself when he blew up his car. Exhibit B: they allowed Adam to be around Aubree unsupervised while we was using, again, in violation of the court order.

And so yep, Adam isn't actually allowed to be around Aubree unless it's at the visitation centre and this was a serious breach of the order. Adam and his parents know the rules but they seem to think that just bending them every once in a while isn't a big deal. Which is exactly why the court decided that they are not suitable to supervise Adam. If I was Cole I would also have gone over there immediately because regardless of what his parents think, court orders aren't optional. And if I was Chelsea, I would note this with my lawyer in case his parents made an application to supervise him or if this happens again and the order needs to be changed. Being in Aubree's life comes with conditions like obeying legally binding orders about her safety.

For all the snark that we throw at Chelsea, a judge agreed with her that Adam is not safe to be around Aubree and that his parents are not capable of supervising him. To then have that thrown in your face by the grandparents is, frankly, scary. Chelsea needs to know that when she sends Aubree over there, her grandparents will keep her safe including making sure that Adam stays away. It's not an overreaction to remove your child when they are around someone who is a risk to them, even if that someone is a parent.

The driving thing is what I always come back to when it’s argued that Aubrey isn’t in danger being at the Linds with Adam. The Linds have a habit of looking the other way and giving into Adam even when it means violating a court order or other laws. Adam has a habit of reckless driving, drunk driving, and domestic violence (IIRC). I am not actually sure Aubrey isn't in danger around the Linds and Adam. I’m not sure Adam wouldn’t get drunk or high and decide he wants to drive Aubrey home and that the Linds would let him. I’m not sure Aubrey wouldn’t be around a drug deal or dirty needles and the Linds would look the other way. There was a reason the a judge decided Adam needed supervised visits and then later decided the Lind’s couldn’t supervise. If I was Chelsea I would have picked up Aubrey too.

Dance4Life · March 20, 2019

8 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

You said it so well! I think Chelsea and Cole are so fed up with Adam, attorneys and court dates. Managing a fool like Adam with a young girl seeing and hearing all!

I wish they would just all take Adam out of their lives!

But that's their story line isn't it!

That and making babies!

That house is busting at the seams.

Did Chelsea buy another home? I am thinking this or am I making it up?

Jeanne222 · March 20, 2019

4 minutes ago, Dance4Life said:

That and making babies!

That house is busting at the seams.

Did Chelsea buy another home? I am thinking this or am I making it up?

That's their new home their filming in now! It does seem small way out in the middle of nowhere! All that everyday driving would do me in!

Dance4Life · March 20, 2019

1 hour ago, Rebecca said:

Here’s a good article about it, if you’re interested in investing more time into them 😆: https://teenmomjunkies.com/uncategorized/dejesus-daddy-drama

Also, Briana and Brittany haven’t had contact with Briana’s father in many years, he’s never even met Nova and they don’t know where he is. I have to question how involved he ever was, especially when they moved to Florida like 15 years ago without him.

Wow! Reading that is very sad. I watched two video clips of Brittany meeting her paternal aunt and talking to her maternal aunt. There was so much love for Brittany.

I have come to like them this year. You can really see a change in Roxanne. She is really trying to be there to support the girls and granddaughters.

Devoin coming around.....I wonder if this has given Roxy that peace. Seems like she does not want history to repeat itself.

Money wise....they are finally comfortable. Brittany made that comment....we don’t even need his money. We have more than enough money to take care of these kids.

They just need some energetic male energy in their life. Gosh, even Devoin is super boring!

Maybe Brittany will land herself a good one.

Brooklynista · March 20, 2019

3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I hear ya. Kail is such a hosebeast it's easy to forget that Chris is pretty loathsome himself. He knows Kail has feelings for him and he uses that to his advantage. If he has no intentions of committing to her, he shouldn't be sending her "I love you" texts and egging her on. Nor should he be sleeping with her, using her pool, taking vacations with her, etc. It's selfish and if he treats Kail like that, he'll do the same to a genuinely nice girl with a good heart.

That's not to say Kail doesn't need to smarten up and walk away, but he shouldn't be doing what he's doing either.

Eh. Fuck her.

Scarlett45 · March 20, 2019

5 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I hear ya. Kail is such a hosebeast it's easy to forget that Chris is pretty loathsome himself. He knows Kail has feelings for him and he uses that to his advantage. If he has no intentions of committing to her, he shouldn't be sending her "I love you" texts and egging her on. Nor should he be sleeping with her, using her pool, taking vacations with her, etc. It's selfish and if he treats Kail like that, he'll do the same to a genuinely nice girl with a good heart.

That's not to say Kail doesn't need to smarten up and walk away, but he shouldn't be doing what he's doing either.

4 hours ago, Christina87 said:

Exactly!!! A lot of people say, "I can see why he treats Kail like that!" but players are players. They don't work on a merit system. They're equal opportunity assholes, who will treat any woman that way, because it's their nature. They don't feel bad about it, period, no matter how mean or nice the woman is. Now, maybe if Kail were hotter, that could make him change, but that's problematic in itself. I would hate for someone to be with me because he found me hot, yet be willing to treat less attractive girls badly. That kind of guy has no character, to treat people differently based on looks. Of course, he has the right to choose not to date someone less attractive than what he wants, and either leave her alone or just be friends, but that's not what I'm talking about. I wouldn't want to be with a guy who felt obligated to date someone he didn't like, but if I ever found out he led someone on like that in the recent past, I'd be gone. There is nothing Kail could do to make him change, or any other girl in her attractiveness range, no matter what personality they have. In a way, I'm glad chris has to put up with Kail being an asshole if he's going to treat her like that anyway! So many girls make it so easy and convenient for them while they're being players.

I would consider Kail relatively blameless if she hadn't tried to trap him with a baby. THAT was her big mistake!

Yes and no. I don’t feel badly for Kailyn or Chris because I think they are nasty people who used and lied and manipulated each other. I don’t think Kailyn actually has feelings for Chris, I think she only wants him because she cannot have him. This is clearly an instance where water sought its own level.

I don’t think Chris would treat Kailyn better if she were better looking. That’s a big myth, I know tons of beautiful women treated badly by men; often because they’ve been socialized to think that having a man determines their value and because of their looks the guy will shape up. I think if Kailyn had more respect for herself he probably wouldn’t have been interested in her

Now I don’t think Chris is a standup guy who got all twisted by Kailyn’s nasty ways- I think he’s an asshole, looked how he talked about Javi on Twitter?!! They are both people of poor character. I think Kailyn is worse because we know she attacked Chris physically which is never okay.

Rebecca · March 21, 2019

7 hours ago, FozzyBear said:

The driving thing is what I always come back to when it’s argued that Aubrey isn’t in danger being at the Linds with Adam. The Linds have a habit of looking the other way and giving into Adam even when it means violating a court order or other laws. Adam has a habit of reckless driving, drunk driving, and domestic violence (IIRC). I am not actually sure Aubrey isn't in danger around the Linds and Adam. I’m not sure Adam wouldn’t get drunk or high and decide he wants to drive Aubrey home

Even sober Adam should never be on the road again, with or without his daughter, IMO! He’s done so much damage when it comes to his reckless driving. (For example: https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/teen-mom-2-adam-lind-crashes-car-elderly-women-pulled-from-wreckage-massive-explosion-2014232/amp/)

I think what you said about him deciding to drive with her is where the real issue lies. I don’t think the other things are all that likely to happen (still could, though) but I could completely see Adam deciding to drive her home or “just down the street for ice cream” maybe, and Donna texting Chelsea about it AFTER Adam was already driving with her and on the way. I gave Donna credit for calling right away and knowing Aubree had to leave because Adam showed up this week but I also feel like she could have told him to leave because she was present. I don’t buy that they didn’t know it was court ordered. I can also see how, in her mind, that kicking him out would be ridiculous and he should get to see Aubree for a minute, what’s the harm, etc. because I’m presuming Donna has coddled and enabled Adam to turn into what he is presently. But if he wanted to see her so badly he’d have shown up to the visitation center.

I still think Cole was being a bit extra and unnecessarily dramatic about it all (“I didn’t know if shit was about to go down...” 🙄) but I do see why it was serious to Chelsea and Cole, given Adam’s track record of not caring about, well, anything, but especially rules. It’s probably easier to think it’s not that big of a deal for Adam to see Aubree at the Lind home for a little while when Aubree isn’t our kid/Adam isn’t our ex and we don’t have more insight and knowledge into just how terrible and potentially dangerous Adam is, like Chelsea does, and what we do know is pretty terrible already. This article is 3 years old! There’s plenty of new stuff to add. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thehollywoodgossip.com/slideshows/adam-lind-9-times-he-proved-hes-the-worlds-worst-baby-daddy/amp/

6 hours ago, Dance4Life said:

Wow! Reading that is very sad. I watched two video clips of Brittany meeting her paternal aunt and talking to her maternal aunt. There was so much love for Brittany.

I have come to like them this year. You can really see a change in Roxanne. She is really trying to be there to support the girls and granddaughters.

Devoin coming around.....I wonder if this has given Roxy that peace. Seems like she does not want history to repeat itself.

Money wise....they are finally comfortable. Brittany made that comment....we don’t even need his money. We have more than enough money to take care of these kids.

They just need some energetic male energy in their life. Gosh, even Devoin is super boring!

Maybe Brittany will land herself a good one.

I think it sucks that Roxanne kept that from her daughters for so long. That show really exposed some things about her. I’m really glad Roxanne has seemingly calmed down. I wonder if it’s being ill and recognizing what’s really important in life, plus like you said, Devoin has stepped it up. Based on screenshots from Snapchat I saw earlier on reddit he even seems to spend time with Stella! He took Nova for a manicure and pedicure and got a pedicure himself. I feel like he and Nova have bonded now and it won’t go back to how it was in the past with him barely involved. He seems to recognize her temperament is more like his own and that she needs him in her life. Plus, I think it would be harder since he’s developed a real relationship with the whole family at this point. I really hope I’m not wrong.

Unless Brittany hasn’t been dating (which I doubt) she’s been smart to not bring them on camera! I know she’s not the main focus but if there were any drama there MTV would surely show it...we did get Kuzin Krystal Kustody drama on TMOG, after all. Brittany has also done well so far by not getting pregnant again “unexpectedly” like Briana. She’s already broken that cycle somewhat.

I also read on Reddit that Devoin’s name isn’t actually pronounce Da-von like Briana, etc say it. Apparently his name is really pronounced like De-VOIN but Briana didn’t like it so she changed it. Lol? And now I officially read TM shit on reddit. Sigh.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Rebecca

Adiba · March 21, 2019

@Rebecca, thanks for posting the links about Adam. I remembered that he had gotten in trouble for DUIs, but couldn't remember exactly when.

The Linds may not be able to control Adam, and they may falsely think he is sober when he is not. Or, he could show up sober, and they think it is OK for him to take Aubree out for a short trip for ice cream or to the park. Meanwhile, he's actually going out to score (this is hypothetical, mind you) and driving under the influence on his way back.

If Adam were likely to get violent or belligerent in front of Aubree, would the Linds call the police on their son? I think not. YMMV

gunderda · March 21, 2019

On 3/18/2019 at 9:34 PM, ghoulina said:

Speaking of Grandmas. Donna is the worst. She can cut the bullshit. She knows the rules. And it's super shitty to expect Chelsea to come running every time Adumb comes and goes. That's really confusing and unhealthy for Aubree.

That whole thing was a bit confusing. Donna text them to say that Adam was there and they could come get Aubry. And then when Cole gets there, Donna is confused as to why Aubry can't stay??? YOU JUST TOLD THEM TO COME PICK HER UP! Was she trying to call their bluff or something? Id be pissed off too if I was Cole and had to deal with that.

On 3/19/2019 at 7:47 AM, Mambo Gladys said:

Chelsea’s cartoon-looking Mom was totally out of line, as usual. I would have liked to see the actual interaction between Cole and Lind’s because I don’t imagine he told them off like he says he did. He’s too much of an emotional mess. I’m wondering how Chelsea is going to implement a “break” with Aubrey’s visits to the Linds. Aren’t they court ordered? She would probably have to tell the court that they violated the order and have a judge agree to suspend the visits. Is she really going to go through all that?

I really don't think they're truly court ordered... because I think it's really hard to get grandparent visitation ordered by the court.. but I think it's more of an agreement that Chelsea likes to stick to, because Aubry enjoys it.

On 3/19/2019 at 10:28 AM, BitterApple said:

I don't get that either. The guy has no job, no means to support a child, an arrest record and a drug habit. Plus he couldn't even drag his ass to the visitation center. A judge would just hand Aubree over to him willy-nilly? I know the system sucks, but I doubt that. Not to mention Randy has all the money in the world to hire lawyers and drag out a custody case. Adam doesn't.

I think there's a very slim chance that Adam would be automatic custody. I think Cole would have a great chance of retaining custody, since he will have Aubry's half siblings or worst case scenario the grandparents have to duke it out between themselves.

On 3/20/2019 at 12:08 AM, Rebecca said:

The whole “rescue from the Linds” thing was a bit much. I understand that it’s not following the agreement so they were justified in leaving to get her immediately. I don’t think it should have been Cole alone who went to pick her up and (supposedly) said all of those things to Donna.

I think Chelsea would have went if they didn't have two young kids. I think a lot of moms would understand that it would be a huge hassle to get them into the car just to go get Aubry.

On 3/20/2019 at 12:27 AM, TheRealT said:

Yeah. I'm torn because I think the whole, "OMG, Adam can never be in Aubree's presence outside the visitation center!" thing is a bit melodramatic, but I also understand how it's important to maintain strong boundaries with Adam to protect Aubree.

I think we've seen with the Linds especially you have to be 'by the book' because if you give an inch they will take a mile.

On 3/20/2019 at 10:40 AM, BitterApple said:

I don't think Aubree was in any danger at the Linds. With that said, I'm sure Chelsea's attorney told her to be a stickler about the court order. Adam's family seems to be a "give an inch, take a mile" type of crowd, so I can understand not letting them slide one time only for them to keep doing it in the future.

Exactly - see above. And Adam doesn't deserve any allowances.

SarahC · March 21, 2019

4 minutes ago, gunderda said:

I think there's a very slim chance that Adam would be automatic custody. I think Cole would have a great chance of retaining custody, since he will have Aubry's half siblings or worst case scenario the grandparents have to duke it out between themselves.

I think this may be right. Every situation is different, though. A guy I knew had custody of a child he had from a previous relationship. He was married and had kids with a different woman. He died suddenly, and I don't know legally what happened, but I do know that the wife now has custody of the child and not the mother. But I know nothing of the mother or their situation, so she may not have had any rights to begin with.

I just can't imagine the courts handing over custody to a guy who is only allowed supervised visitation at a visitation center. Although it is an important issue to think about. I am sure a lawyer would be more equipped to handle a discussion like that instead of Mary.

ghoulina · March 21, 2019

1 hour ago, gunderda said:

That whole thing was a bit confusing. Donna text them to say that Adam was there and they could come get Aubry. And then when Cole gets there, Donna is confused as to why Aubry can't stay??? YOU JUST TOLD THEM TO COME PICK HER UP! Was she trying to call their bluff or something? Id be pissed off too if I was Cole and had to deal with that.

I definitely think she was trying to call their bluff. She sent the initial text to cover her ass. Because she KNOWS about the custody agreement. But then she thinks she can play victim and manipulate Cole once he gets there. She also had the nerve to ask if Aubree could come back once Adumb was gone. Fuck that.

BravoAddict72 · March 21, 2019

I have to give Cole a pass on the swearing. My husband swears all the time. It's just the way he is. My son and I always joke with him and ask if he has to hit a quota of swear words every day. My son is now 12 and wont even say Hell. Just because a parent swears doesn't mean a child will.

Quilty · March 22, 2019

I've lost a lot of respect for Chelsea in the last couple seasons. I especially hate how she immediately calls Cole or her dad in front of Aubree when Adam is a no show or some other fuck up. Or telling Aubree how grandma Donna never should've said anything about Adam coming to lunch. Grandma Donna shouldn't do that but C&C make it worse by saying these things to Aubree.

TheRealT · March 22, 2019

On 3/20/2019 at 6:30 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Yes and no. I don’t feel badly for Kailyn or Chris because I think they are nasty people who used and lied and manipulated each other. I don’t think Kailyn actually has feelings for Chris, I think she only wants him because she cannot have him. This is clearly an instance where water sought its own level.

I don’t think Chris would treat Kailyn better if she were better looking. That’s a big myth, I know tons of beautiful women treated badly by men; often because they’ve been socialized to think that having a man determines their value and because of their looks the guy will shape up. I think if Kailyn had more respect for herself he probably wouldn’t have been interested in her

Now I don’t think Chris is a standup guy who got all twisted by Kailyn’s nasty ways- I think he’s an asshole, looked how he talked about Javi on Twitter?!! They are both people of poor character. I think Kailyn is worse because we know she attacked Chris physically which is never okay.

Yeah, it's hard for me to judge Chris for not "honoring" Kail enough when their relationship started with her fucking him while her husband was deployed (and she knew he was "cheating" on his gf). After that, Kail continued to "date" him (if that's what you want to call it) for months/years knowing that he was dating others as well and she pretended to be cool with it (even while she was pregnant with/parenting his child). So I can see how he wasn't necessarily clear on exactly when it became a problem for him to date other people, consider himself a free agent, whatever.

And, by Kail's own account, there was never a big, "Hey, we've been fucking around, but now we're truly committed to one another..." conversation. At all. Ever. She talks about their "relationship" like it should mean something because it's been 3 years (off and on), or they have a kid, or he was living at her house all summer, or she hasn't caused problems for 5 whole days. But that's not how grown folks with a child or three establish that they're in a monogamous, committed relationship. Especially when the relationship started as fuckbuddies who were both supposedly in committed relationships with others. She fully understands that Chris is unwilling to say, "Yes, you're my girlfriend. We're in a committed relationship. I'm not sleeping with anyone else. I want a future with you.," but she's trying to establish a "relationship" based on some kind of technicality. "Well, he never said he was committed to me, but he has a toothbrush at my house. That has to mean something, right?!" It's so pathetic.

On 3/20/2019 at 11:40 AM, BitterApple said:

I don't think Aubree was in any danger at the Linds. With that said, I'm sure Chelsea's attorney told her to be a stickler about the court order. Adam's family seems to be a "give an inch, take a mile" type of crowd, so I can understand not letting them slide one time only for them to keep doing it in the future.

I 100% don't believe Cole had some big confrontation with the Linds. For all his posturing, he's not an alpha dog. I imagine the hand-off was pretty straightforward, especially considering Donna had no choice in the matter.

I absolutely believe Chelsea has no issue with Mary putting the adoption bug in Aubree's head, she just doesn't want her to say it on camera. Chelsea's not the brightest bulb, but even she has enough smarts to know it doesn't play out well to the viewers.

That's the thing, though. Chelsea's actions, ideally, should be premised on what's best for Aubree, not what Adam and his family have or haven't "earned" in terms of trust, leeway, etc. I don't think Chelsea and Cole should just accept whatever the Linds choose to do with regard to Adam being around Aubree, but I think they could be more thoughtful and considerate of Aubree in the way they deal with the Linds/Adam. Obviously, they can make a very easy argument as to why Adam/the Linds don't deserve any slack/have had ample chances and blown them/have been wrong many times. But that's not the point. The Linds (including Adam) are Aubree's family. Ideally (though C&C don't have to be ideal), they would rise above their righteous hurt, annoyance, anger, etc. and go the extra mile to do what's best for Aubree.

From that standpoint, I question whether it's good for Aubree for them to set up this weird dynamic where she and Adam aren't allowed to be around their mutual family at the same time. I imagine that, from Aubree's perspective, she was having a good time at a family gathering at her grandparents', then Adam showed up acting appropriately, being nice to her, and wanting to play ping pong. Nevertheless, Grandma Donna had to call C&C to tell them Adam was there and then Cole showed up to whisk Aubree away. I get that there are reasons C&C did what they did, but Aubree could reasonably think that there wasn't really a need for Cole to rush over to "rescue" her and that perspective is most likely implicitly and explicitly reinforced by the Linds.

Basically, I can see how C&C were "right" on principle, but being "on principle" should be less important than doing what's most healthy/positive for one's child. I get that C&C have reasonable concerns about the Linds letting Adam drive Aubree or otherwise endanger her and that they are within their rights to use the legal measures at their disposal to prevent that. Still, I question whether their approach is what's ultimately best for Aubree (or wise in terms of getting Aubree to "see things their way").

Stusan · March 22, 2019

On 3/19/2019 at 12:15 PM, Dance4Life said:

Where are you going in PR? @STUSAN

Staying near Vega Baja, @Dance4Life. Are you in PR? We plan to see whatever strikes our fancy on any given day. (We aren't much for plans.) This is our last big family spring break before the eldest is off the college.

On topic: Devoid seems to be getting a pretty good edit. Which producer did he charm?

IDreamofJoaquin · March 22, 2019

I really laughed when Briana told Nova not to talk about farting when her mom was the one who jumped up on a table screaming. Nova does not want his last name. Also I am surprised Roxanne is so willing to have the baby girls have their fathers name when she has raised man haters.

Karl is getting treated how she treats people - by ignoring them. I don't see how any person in the world would find her attractive by looks or her awkward, standoffish, bitch attitude. She can't see how messy and complicated SHE makes it for everyone.

Okay, I really did not understand Andrew and Barb's communication. Why can't he go to North Carolina but can go to Florida? And he doesn't even tell her. I would have been like "this was your one chance and you blew it" but of course MTV is probably setting this up and paid for her to go to New York because I would have been PISSED about spending all that money. Instead she starts casually chatting with him. And then asking the family their genetic history when it's her family that Jace would get all of this from (or both...but we know it's from her side for sure).

It's getting to the point where Watson is crying in every scene and I don't like it. My daughter is 2 1/2 and cries and whines a lot. I don't need more of it.

Adiba · March 22, 2019

7 hours ago, TheRealT said:

Yeah, it's hard for me to judge Chris for not "honoring" Kail enough when their relationship started with her fucking him while her husband was deployed (and she knew he was "cheating" on his gf). After that, Kail continued to "date" him (if that's what you want to call it) for months/years knowing that he was dating others as well and she pretended to be cool with it (even while she was pregnant with/parenting his child). So I can see how he wasn't necessarily clear on exactly when it became a problem for him to date other people, consider himself a free agent, whatever.

And, by Kail's own account, there was never a big, "Hey, we've been fucking around, but now we're truly committed to one another..." conversation. At all. Ever. She talks about their "relationship" like it should mean something because it's been 3 years (off and on), or they have a kid, or he was living at her house all summer, or she hasn't caused problems for 5 whole days. But that's not how grown folks with a child or three establish that they're in a monogamous, committed relationship. Especially when the relationship started as fuckbuddies who were both supposedly in committed relationships with others. She fully understands that Chris is unwilling to say, "Yes, you're my girlfriend. We're in a committed relationship. I'm not sleeping with anyone else. I want a future with you.," but she's trying to establish a "relationship" based on some kind of technicality. "Well, he never said he was committed to me, but he has a toothbrush at my house. That has to mean something, right?!" It's so pathetic.

That's the thing, though. Chelsea's actions, ideally, should be premised on what's best for Aubree, not what Adam and his family have or haven't "earned" in terms of trust, leeway, etc. I don't think Chelsea and Cole should just accept whatever the Linds choose to do with regard to Adam being around Aubree, but I think they could be more thoughtful and considerate of Aubree in the way they deal with the Linds/Adam. Obviously, they can make a very easy argument as to why Adam/the Linds don't deserve any slack/have had ample chances and blown them/have been wrong many times. But that's not the point. The Linds (including Adam) are Aubree's family. Ideally (though C&C don't have to be ideal), they would rise above their righteous hurt, annoyance, anger, etc. and go the extra mile to do what's best for Aubree.

From that standpoint, I question whether it's good for Aubree for them to set up this weird dynamic where she and Adam aren't allowed to be around their mutual family at the same time. I imagine that, from Aubree's perspective, she was having a good time at a family gathering at her grandparents', then Adam showed up acting appropriately, being nice to her, and wanting to play ping pong. Nevertheless, Grandma Donna had to call C&C to tell them Adam was there and then Cole showed up to whisk Aubree away. I get that there are reasons C&C did what they did, but Aubree could reasonably think that there wasn't really a need for Cole to rush over to "rescue" her and that perspective is most likely implicitly and explicitly reinforced by the Linds.

Basically, I can see how C&C were "right" on principle, but being "on principle" should be less important than doing what's most healthy/positive for one's child. I get that C&C have reasonable concerns about the Linds letting Adam drive Aubree or otherwise endanger her and that they are within their rights to use the legal measures at their disposal to prevent that. Still, I question whether their approach is what's ultimately best for Aubree (or wise in terms of getting Aubree to "see things their way").

You have good points in your post, but I kind of have to take issue (with the wording at least) re: the bolded. I don't think Chelsea and Cole are solely responsible for this "weird dynamic" nor are they the ones who set it up intentionally. It evolved into that because of the actions of Adam and the Linds. This situation did not happen in a vacuum.

The LInds need to tell Adam not to be there if Aubree is there and tell him to leave if he does so up. They can do those things without Aubree hearing it. If Aubree is negatively affected by this--it's no one's fault but Adam's for showing up where is is prohibited. If the Linds are "spanked" for letting the situation happen, so be it. Control your son.

If Adam really wants to see Aubree-- show the fuck up to the visitation center, work your program and get sober, and keep out of trouble with the law.

And Aubree may not fully understand it now, and that's OK--she's a kid, and some decisions are made by grownups (the judge and Chelsea) for the safety and protection of children.

I do agree that Aubree should be kept out of these types of conversations regarding Adam--Chelsea just needs to privately explain the situation as best she can to her. And Cole needs to back off a bit (even though it is nice that he's a good stepfather). I am very uncomfortable with the way she is included in some things and these situations playing out on camera.

I am seeing this situation through a filter because of a situation occurring in my life with my grandson--so I guess it just hits home for me.

FozzyBear · March 22, 2019

33 minutes ago, Adiba said:

You have good points in your post, but I kind of have to take issue (with the wording at least) re: the bolded. I don't think Chelsea and Cole are solely responsible for this "weird dynamic" nor are they the ones who set it up intentionally. It evolved into that because of the actions of Adam and the Linds. This situation did not happen in a vacuum.

The LInds need to tell Adam not to be there if Aubree is there and tell him to leave if he does so up. They can do those things without Aubree hearing it. If Aubree is negatively affected by this--it's no one's fault but Adam's for showing up where is is prohibited. If the Linds are "spanked" for letting the situation happen, so be it. Control your son.

If Adam really wants to see Aubree-- show the fuck up to the visitation center, work your program and get sober, and keep out of trouble with the law.

And Aubree may not fully understand it now, and that's OK--she's a kid, and some decisions are made by grownups (the judge and Chelsea) for the safety and protection of children.

I do agree that Aubree should be kept out of these types of conversations regarding Adam--Chelsea just needs to privately explain the situation as best she can to her. And Cole needs to back off a bit (even though it is nice that he's a good stepfather). I am very uncomfortable with the way she is included in some things and these situations playing out on camera.

I am seeing this situation through a filter because of a situation occurring in my life with my grandson--so I guess it just hits home for me.

I agree. Chelsea did not create this situation. Adam did through his actions and thecLinds did through their actions. As far as I can remember, Chelsea hasn’t done anything to try and stop the Linds or even Adam from seeing Aubrey. She’s only expected that they comply to the court order. They don’t. It’s a matter of trust. Chelsea is trusting the Linds with her child. They constantly violate that trust. I think Chelsea takes it more in stride then I would.

Edited March 22, 2019 by FozzyBear

Birdee · March 22, 2019

6 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

It's getting to the point where Watson is crying in every scene and I don't like it. My daughter is 2 1/2 and cries and whines a lot. I don't need more of it.

Ditto to both parts. Come sit by me if you want; I have wine slushies.

Rebecca · March 22, 2019

22 hours ago, gunderda said:

I think Chelsea would have went if they didn't have two young kids. I think a lot of moms would understand that it would be a huge hassle to get them into the car just to go get Aubry.

I think Chelsea should have gone to pick up Aubree and Cole should have stayed home with the kids.

21 hours ago, ghoulina said:

She also had the nerve to ask if Aubree could come back once Adumb was gone. Fuck that.

That was so weird...like, come get her because my precious Adam is here and I won’t tell him to leave even though this is the one weekend a month Aubree is here...oh, but can you bring her back when my precious Adam decides he’s ready to leave? 🙄

8 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

genetic history when it's her family that Jace would get all of this from (or both...but we know it's from her side for sure).

That was also weird...she was asking them about things that are already in her own family history. If Jace already has ADHD and members of Barb’s family allegedly have bipolar 1 disorder (not to mention schizophrenia, etc) why does it matter if Andrew’s family has these things as well? I think Jenelle is more borderline than bipolar (and also a sociopath) but I remember her saying she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder at one point, before the molecules even.

heatherchandler · March 22, 2019

Cole with his BS posturing like he is some kind of badass... in his squeaky little voice. I don't think he does all of this because he loves Aubree so much and he just wants to protect her. I imagine he does love her but this whole scenario rings false to me. He does this display of "fighting for Aubree" for Chelsea's benefit.

I honestly don't know what to make of him, he is very weird to me, and like someone said above - he is so fake, either his nervous, quiet little mouse man was an act, or the swearing tough guy is an act. Maybe they both are façades, who knows??

On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 8:19 AM, druzy said:

I think Chelsea and Cole make Aubree feel guilty about loving her father. Also Aubree probably feels the need to agree with C&C when they bash Adam because it's easier to go along with them. It's sad.

It is beyond sad. You can see it on her FACE! She loves her dad (as crazy as it seems to us viewers).

On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 11:48 AM, gunderda said:

I think there's a very slim chance that Adam would be automatic custody. I think Cole would have a great chance of retaining custody, since he will have Aubry's half siblings or worst case scenario the grandparents have to duke it out between themselves.

I have no idea how custody works with the death of a parent, but a parent who has some DUIs and arrests for violence is still the legal parent, and I know courts like to keep kids with parents. Cole is not. Any lawyers who know how it works?

12 hours ago, TheRealT said:

That's the thing, though. Chelsea's actions, ideally, should be premised on what's best for Aubree, not what Adam and his family have or haven't "earned" in terms of trust, leeway, etc. I don't think Chelsea and Cole should just accept whatever the Linds choose to do with regard to Adam being around Aubree, but I think they could be more thoughtful and considerate of Aubree in the way they deal with the Linds/Adam. Obviously, they can make a very easy argument as to why Adam/the Linds don't deserve any slack/have had ample chances and blown them/have been wrong many times. But that's not the point. The Linds (including Adam) are Aubree's family. Ideally (though C&C don't have to be ideal), they would rise above their righteous hurt, annoyance, anger, etc. and go the extra mile to do what's best for Aubree.

From that standpoint, I question whether it's good for Aubree for them to set up this weird dynamic where she and Adam aren't allowed to be around their mutual family at the same time. I imagine that, from Aubree's perspective, she was having a good time at a family gathering at her grandparents', then Adam showed up acting appropriately, being nice to her, and wanting to play ping pong. Nevertheless, Grandma Donna had to call C&C to tell them Adam was there and then Cole showed up to whisk Aubree away. I get that there are reasons C&C did what they did, but Aubree could reasonably think that there wasn't really a need for Cole to rush over to "rescue" her and that perspective is most likely implicitly and explicitly reinforced by the Linds.

Basically, I can see how C&C were "right" on principle, but being "on principle" should be less important than doing what's most healthy/positive for one's child. I get that C&C have reasonable concerns about the Linds letting Adam drive Aubree or otherwise endanger her and that they are within their rights to use the legal measures at their disposal to prevent that. Still, I question whether their approach is what's ultimately best for Aubree (or wise in terms of getting Aubree to "see things their way").

YES agree 100%!

Also, if C&C were to actually do what's best for Aubree, all of this horrible family drama would not be played out on TV! Why is this a storyline for a tv show? If Aubree absolutely must be on tv, show her having fun with her siblings or something, not this horrible weird messed up family stuff. I fucking hate them for doing this to her!

lilmarysunshine · March 22, 2019

35 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

Cole with his BS posturing like he is some kind of badass... in his squeaky little voice. I don't think he does all of this because he loves Aubree so much and he just wants to protect her. I imagine he does love her but this whole scenario rings false to me. He does this display of "fighting for Aubree" for Chelsea's benefit.

I have really soured on both of them. I think he genuinely loves Aubree but I think he and Chelsea genuinely love to tell the viewing audience, all of the time, how much he loves Aubree. I just see them as very manipulative now. I think Chelsea's always been that way - that's how she worked Randy. She just does it in a sweeter way than Kail.

I am one who thinks it is great when these people have real jobs so they're not so dependent on making up storylines that are hurtful for their families because they're dependent on MTV money. So I always respected that Cole kept his job but he's really no different. A clothing line. Really? I don't know. Watch Project Runway and see people who have a passion for designing clothes and who learn all about it and to see these people who aren't even particularly stylish saying they're designing a fashion line just rubs me the wrong way.

But the biggest thing is putting poor Aubree through the wringer with this public playing out of the her deadbeat dad who always disappoints her and his asshole parents just is the worst. Let the child deal with that stuff privately. Good Lord. Is that not common sense?!!? I mean Aubree's old enough to fucking google and see what people say!

ghoulina · March 22, 2019

2 hours ago, Rebecca said:

I think Chelsea should have gone to pick up Aubree and Cole should have stayed home with the kids.

If Layne is nursing, though, it may have been easier for Cole to go.

2 hours ago, Rebecca said:

That was also weird...she was asking them about things that are already in her own family history. If Jace already has ADHD and members of Barb’s family allegedly have bipolar 1 disorder (not to mention schizophrenia, etc) why does it matter if Andrew’s family has these things as well? I think Jenelle is more borderline than bipolar (and also a sociopath) but I remember her saying she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder at one point, before the molecules even.

Also, who is going to trust Andrew and his "mom" when they're making claims about the family medical history? No me, that's for sure.

heatherchandler · March 22, 2019

2 hours ago, lilmarysunshine said:

I have really soured on both of them. I think he genuinely loves Aubree but I think he and Chelsea genuinely love to tell the viewing audience, all of the time, how much he loves Aubree. I just see them as very manipulative now. I think Chelsea's always been that way - that's how she worked Randy. She just does it in a sweeter way than Kail.

I am one who thinks it is great when these people have real jobs so they're not so dependent on making up storylines that are hurtful for their families because they're dependent on MTV money. So I always respected that Cole kept his job but he's really no different. A clothing line. Really? I don't know. Watch Project Runway and see people who have a passion for designing clothes and who learn all about it and to see these people who aren't even particularly stylish saying they're designing a fashion line just rubs me the wrong way.

But the biggest thing is putting poor Aubree through the wringer with this public playing out of the her deadbeat dad who always disappoints her and his asshole parents just is the worst. Let the child deal with that stuff privately. Good Lord. Is that not common sense?!!? I mean Aubree's old enough to fucking google and see what people say!

They are so not stylish - they wear ugly sweats and jeans! And those stupid indoor hats. That's all they wear. They can't design clothes, they are not even good at throwing an outfit together of already designed clothes. I remember when Chelsea was wearing basketball shorts and a long t-shirt every day, and she looked hideous in it.

It is truly awful. They are making money off of her pain. How can anyone think they are good parents after doing this? I cannot wrap my head around it.

BARISTA · March 22, 2019

Another reason I don’t believe Cole’s story. It was Donna who texted Chelsea to say Adam had turned up at her house so Chelsea would have to come collect Aubree, as per the court order. So for Cole to come home and say that Donna stood at the door saying she was confused as to why Aubree had to leave just doesn’t add up ? She was the one who informed C&C that Aubree would have to leave. So she didn’t breach the court order and she certainly wasn’t confused about it. Not that I believed any of Coley’s little story but he has been caught out.

BitterApple · March 22, 2019

54 minutes ago, BARISTA said:

Another reason I don’t believe Cole’s story. It was Donna who texted Chelsea to say Adam had turned up at her house so Chelsea would have to come collect Aubree, as per the court order. So for Cole to come home and say that Donna stood at the door saying she was confused as to why Aubree had to leave just doesn’t add up ? She was the one who informed C&C that Aubree would have to leave. So she didn’t breach the court order and she certainly wasn’t confused about it. Not that I believed any of Coley’s little story but he has been caught out.

I can't make heads or tails of what happened. I agree that everyone knows the parameters of the court order and that Cole told a selective version of events, but I don't get Donna either. If it's the one weekend a month she gets to have her granddaughter, why the hell wouldn't she tell Adam to leave? Was she covering her bases with the text but also hoping Chelsea wouldn't feel like driving over there to get Aubree? Or was Adam being a dick and refusing to go, giving her no choice? Then to ask Cole to bring her back after Adam left? (If that even happened). Unless Donna's in the same I.Q. bracket as Lois Griffin, none of this makes sense.

lilmarysunshine · March 22, 2019

3 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

They are so not stylish - they wear ugly sweats and jeans! And those stupid indoor hats. That's all they wear. They can't design clothes, they are not even good at throwing an outfit together of already designed clothes. I remember when Chelsea was wearing basketball shorts and a long t-shirt every day, and she looked hideous in it.

Even their house is not a tiny bit styled. We joke about Kail and her Pinterest home but even though I loathe Kail with the intensity of 100 suns, her home is much more put together than Chelsea and Cole's dark home where all of it looks like how people do up their basements. Mine's not really, either, but even mine looks better than hers and if I had their money, I'd hire a damn designer to help me with interior design.

Today must be my day to drag Chelsea and Cole. lol

Edited March 22, 2019 by lilmarysunshine

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