S03.E16: Don't Take My Sunshine Away

[bros402]

That was a horrible voicemail by Randall. You think he would've at least called right afterwards going "oh my god i am such a horrible person Beth" but nooope he didn't even try to apologize until that mumblepology after they walked out

Second, so obviously, Zoe and Kevin are going to break up next season. I'm guessing Zoe will learn she is pregnant, Kevin will see it as a "see, now she'll want kids!" moment, then Zoe gets an abortion and Kevin gets angry that he didn't get his way for once.

The Toby-Kate plot was good.

So i'm trying to figure out this timeline. Jack was like 4 or 5 when Nicky was born in 1948, right? 30 years before this episode would've been 1962. Let's be generous say Jack was born in 1945 - Jack was 17 in 1962 - so I guess that would've been when he could've gone to a homecoming dance.

And I guess the Big 3 are supposed to be in 6th grade in this episode? Since the balloons said Class of 1992 - I guess they "graduated" 5th grade? Since they graduated HS in what, 1998? So this would be the 1991-1992 school year. The Big Three were born 1980, so they should be in 8th grade, not 6th. Hmmm
let me check my math

12th grade: 97-98

11th: 96-97

10th: 95-96

9th: 94-95

8th: 93-94

7th: 92-93

6th: 91-92

Or did I read the balloons wrong and they said Class of 1990?

[movingtargetgal]

3 hours ago, bybrandy said:

  5 hours ago, kris4n6 said:

1) Kate's insurance still had her in the hospital (my son was in NICU and after 4 nights I was discharged) and 2) she stood up way too quickly and easily for someone who had just had a c-section.  I know I couldn't have, and I had a textbook easy recovery.

Kate is extremely overweight and had an emergency C-section.  (I'm not judging.  I am overweight and have had emergency surgery, so I speak from experience.)  To get to the baby the surgeon needed to cut through layers of fat.  She would need multiple layers of sutures to close the wound.  It would not be unusual for her to be kept in the hospital for a couple of weeks.  Kate is up and around and does not seem to be in too much pain.  I think what is getting her through are the painkillers and the joy of having Jack.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

That Was Us:

[debraran]

I thought the baby scenes were well done, it is a scary time and Toby showed the angst well. The rest of it, not so much.

Randall's message awful, especially the putting down of the people she teaches, a lot comes out in anger and he obviously thinks she is doing "scut work" that can wait and he is Jesus's cousin and he has to have a clean slate to work from. I can't imagine Randall just became like this, I'm sure he was on a smaller scale and the changes later made it worse. The anger though, he needs counseling also.

The other thing is we all know he kids will hear this fight,  no matter how big that house it. It will be upsetting and probably cause one of them pause and feeling guilty, but Randall wanted to do it then.

Was the question from Kevin to Sophie about children sensitive because of another reason? She never answered and he apologized, maybe a bit intrusive but they were close, to ask if she had any wasn't that strange?

The baby thing is copy/paste from MLT show but I feel Kevin will change his mind, how does he decide this now? Like other posts have said here, it isn't a time to decide and for her to expect him to make a decision right then, it's just obvious he is 4 days sober and not in the state of mind to think of anything but that.
 

[Ana88]

I also thought Sophie's reaction to Kevin's kids question was odd.. I wonder what that was about. First my Kevin-Sophie heart hoped it was because she was in a similar situation with her fiancée. Ugh I really just want them together, they have such a better chemistry than Kevin And Zoe. And their flashbacks are too cute! 

Randall is a complete ass. I was actually shocked  at that voice mail as I didn't think he had it in him or even the This is Us writers, since as other people have pointed out they tend to paint everything a little rosey. I kind of liked it but also really surprising. Really hated how he demanded to have the fight right there at the house with three kids around... I really don't see any way back for them now. 

Being born 3 months early these storylines always interest me and it's weird to realize I was like Jack. I really wonder where they are going with it, is he going to be handicapped or even worse pass away? It was really good to see Toby bond with that other dad, he really needed that talk. 

How many more episodes are left? 

Edited March 21, 2019 by Ana88

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Only a few minutes into the episode and I was already annoyed with Randall. When he reacted to the stack of papers he had to read with, "I have to be home while Beth's at her dance class," I was like uh, you can read at home. Lots of people from students to lawyers take stuff home to read.

It was hard for me to feel bad that Randall was at work all day and then he came home and helped the girls with their homework after dinner because that's what millions of moms do every single day. Despite all the progress we have made towards equality, in many households, the onus for housework is still on women, which means that in families where both spouses work, women still do more household chores. I know many moms who have full time jobs and then come home to make dinner, wash the dishes, bathe the kids, help with homework, put the kids to bed, do laundry, etc. If they can do it, so can Randall.

When he told Beth that dinner was the ONE thing he needed her to do, I just rolled my eyes. You mean in addition to all the other things you've asked her do since you started campaigning? Or all the things you've asked her to do since you brought William home to live with you, let your brother move in, decided to foster a kid, and bought the building where William once lived?

But when he called and left her that bitchy message about how HE would have moved heaven and earth to be somewhere for her, I was like OH NO YOU DIDN'T. He was late to her recital the night before but he couldn't possibly entertain the notion that she was running late because of traffic. And that was before he described her job as teaching bored housewives how to twirl better. Boy, BYE.

I'm glad that Sophie has moved on. She deserves happiness and to finally be outside of Kevin's vortex. First he decides he'd rather TP with his friends than dance with his girlfriend, and then he peer pressures her into joining in when she clearly didn't want to. It was very sweet of him to send Billy Joel tickets to Sophie and Grant though.

A+ for "More Than Words" at the dance.

I know several people have mentioned that Zoe not wanting kids is a rehash of A Million Little Things, but I am all for having more than one character on tv being allowed to not want kids. It's just assumed that every person with a uterus wants to be a mother and that's simply not true. You can be married/in a committed relationship and NOT want to have kids. But it's so expected that once you "settle down," you're going to just start popping out kids and be totally fulfilled because procreating is the be-all, end-all for every woman. See also: people asking women, "So when are you guys going to have kids?" at wedding receptions. He put a ring on it, so time to get knocked up! There is nothing wrong with wanting to have kids, but I hate that it's the default for females.

6 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

For a very brief moment I was on Randall’s side. Beth’s last minute “I need to go out for drinks because they’re my new coworkers” just didn’t feel like a make or break for her in her job, at that point.

I was still firmly Team Beth because the situation that she described was the equivalent of the dinner that Randall wanted her to attend. Beth said that the owner invited her and some of the other teachers to drinks to discuss the future of the studio. The whole reason that Randall insisted his dinner was important was that the guy who invited him to dinner (the city council president) assigns the new councilmen to their committees so he needed BETH to be there to make a good impression. In both cases, someone in a position of power invited them to a social event that could have an impact on their future/career. Beth's was no less important than Randall's.

4 hours ago, Infie said:

Respect in marriage is not optional, and showing that kind of contempt for your partner is the height of unacceptable behaviour. 

ITA - if you can only be respectful to your spouse when you're getting your way, then you don't really respect your spouse, and if you don't respect your spouse then you don't deserve to be with them. Yes, he was upset, but you can be upset without denigrating and belittling your partner.

[Jillybean]

3 hours ago, bros402 said:

That was a horrible voicemail by Randall. You think he would've at least called right afterwards going "oh my god i am such a horrible person Beth" but nooope he didn't even try to apologize until that mumblepology after they walked out

Second, so obviously, Zoe and Kevin are going to break up next season. I'm guessing Zoe will learn she is pregnant, Kevin will see it as a "see, now she'll want kids!" moment, then Zoe gets an abortion and Kevin gets angry that he didn't get his way for once.

The Toby-Kate plot was good.

So i'm trying to figure out this timeline. Jack was like 4 or 5 when Nicky was born in 1948, right? 30 years before this episode would've been 1962. Let's be generous say Jack was born in 1945 - Jack was 17 in 1962 - so I guess that would've been when he could've gone to a homecoming dance.

And I guess the Big 3 are supposed to be in 6th grade in this episode? Since the balloons said Class of 1992 - I guess they "graduated" 5th grade? Since they graduated HS in what, 1998? So this would be the 1991-1992 school year. The Big Three were born 1980, so they should be in 8th grade, not 6th. Hmmm
let me check my math

12th grade: 97-98

11th: 96-97

10th: 95-96

9th: 94-95

8th: 93-94

7th: 92-93

6th: 91-92

Or did I read the balloons wrong and they said Class of 1990?

There was a sign shown with the name of a middle school. 

Multiple mentions of A Million Little Things, which I haven't watched since the 2nd episode because it sucked IMO...but yeah, the having/not having kids discussion is hardly a unique thing...surely plenty of couples/women out there don't want kids. I know because I'm one of them. 

[debraran]

My beef with the "no kids" thing is that it is always alluding to abuse as a reason why, the same thing they did with gay individuals in the past, "he/she must have been abused to think this way".

I know Zoe was abused by her dad, on TIU, Regina had an uncle and although she hasn't put the two together, I figure give it time.

If they had ONE show where a woman decided that and wasn't a workaholic or abused, I think it would be great. TV isn't a good education but when you put the idea in heads that is the only reason for not wanting kids, a certain group always feel it might be when they meet someone who doesn't.  Can't stop that but it would be nice to see someone who just doesn't want to have any, not a great pull, or maybe wants to adopt an older child later in life. The abuse thing is way overused.

[GSMHvisitor]

44 minutes ago, Ana88 said:

I also thought Sophie's reaction to Kevin's kids question was odd.. I wonder what that was about. First my Kevin-Sophie heart hoped it was because she was in a similar situation with her fiancée. Ugh I really just want them together, they have such a better chemistry than Kevin And Zoe. And their flashbacks are too cute! 

Count me in on those thinking Kevin has much better chemistry with Sophie than Zoe. I was actually very invested in their relationship and I'll forever be a little bitter the writers threw them away the way that they did. I wanted nothkng more but a story about Kevin making it up to Sophie and be a great boyfriend to her. They had so little actual screentime together in s1 & 2, it's a shame. With Zoe they are trying much more, but I can't warm up to her character. I understand why she is the way that she is, but she has not one thing that endears her to me. And I just really liked all the potential Kevin & Sophie's story had.

Oh well, it's not like I'm very attached to the show now. I quit watching after the show came back from hiatus. I tuned in for the Nicky two-parter because of Kevin and I will continue to do so for his sake every now and then. But most other parts of the show annoy me now, especially Randall and he and Beth will apparently get another centric next wedk and I'm just too over him to still care. I'd much rather see the Kevin/Sophie origin story with their move to New York, wedding and how their marriage ultimately failed, but I know I'm in the minority with that.

[love2lovebadtv]

5 hours ago, Amethyst said:

It's not all of a sudden, Randall's stress, anxiety, and impulsive behavior has been part of his character since the beginning.  Before, it made sense to see why he was all over the place, but his actions always affect his family.  It's just reached a point where it can't be hand-waved anymore.  It's not only financial.  It's not right for him to make these major decisions without discussing it with his wife.  I think the political storyline was where they reached the breaking point.

Beth shares some blame in this, too.  She should have spoken to Randall a long time ago about feeling unhappy and unfulfilled in her career, instead of going along with whatever interest he had that week.  Could she have worked her teaching around her life better?  Maybe.  But has Randall done that?

Randall's issues have been showing since the first episode when he moved a stranger in. I can't imagine having a total adult stranger in the house, especially with kids. 

2 hours ago, movingtargetgal said:

Kate is extremely overweight and had an emergency C-section.  (I'm not judging.  I am overweight and have had emergency surgery, so I speak from experience.)  To get to the baby the surgeon needed to cut through layers of fat.  She would need multiple layers of sutures to close the wound.  It would not be unusual for her to be kept in the hospital for a couple of weeks.  Kate is up and around and does not seem to be in too much pain.  I think what is getting her through are the painkillers and the joy of having Jack.

Like you, I'm not judging Kate. Her c-section was more than a typical csection. I wouldn't compare it to my own unless I had similar medical issues. 

2 hours ago, debraran said:

I thought the baby scenes were well done, it is a scary time and Toby showed the angst well. The rest of it, not so much.

Randall's message awful, especially the putting down of the people she teaches, a lot comes out in anger and he obviously thinks she is doing "scut work" that can wait and he is Jesus's cousin and he has to have a clean slate to work from. I can't imagine Randall just became like this, I'm sure he was on a smaller scale and the changes later made it worse. The anger though, he needs counseling also.

The other thing is we all know he kids will hear this fight,  no matter how big that house it. It will be upsetting and probably cause one of them pause and feeling guilty, but Randall wanted to do it then.

Was the question from Kevin to Sophie about children sensitive because of another reason? She never answered and he apologized, maybe a bit intrusive but they were close, to ask if she had any wasn't that strange?

The baby thing is copy/paste from MLT show but I feel Kevin will change his mind, how does he decide this now? Like other posts have said here, it isn't a time to decide and for her to expect him to make a decision right then, it's just obvious he is 4 days sober and not in the state of mind to think of anything but that.
 

I haven't watched MLT but I feel like this is something that happens often in real life. I just thought the topic would have come up before now. 

1 hour ago, debraran said:

My beef with the "no kids" thing is that it is always alluding to abuse as a reason why, the same thing they did with gay individuals in the past, "he/she must have been abused to think this way".

I know Zoe was abused by her dad, on TIU, Regina had an uncle and although she hasn't put the two together, I figure give it time.

If they had ONE show where a woman decided that and wasn't a workaholic or abused, I think it would be great. TV isn't a good education but when you put the idea in heads that is the only reason for not wanting kids, a certain group always feel it might be when they meet someone who doesn't.  Can't stop that but it would be nice to see someone who just doesn't want to have any, not a great pull, or maybe wants to adopt an older child later in life. The abuse thing is way overused.

I do like that Zoe said it wasn't just her background but also liking the life she had. How refreshing. I've always known I wanted children, but I'm all for choosing what works best for your life and not just going with the default. I found it interesting that they didn't know this about each other, especially since Kate declared herself the only person to carry a piece of Jack or whatever remark she made. I know that hurt Randall. I thought Kevin was upset about it, too. Maybe he wasn't dating Zoe back then. 

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

But when he called and left her that bitchy message about how HE would have moved heaven and earth to be somewhere for her, I was like OH NO YOU DIDN'T. He was late to her recital the night before but he couldn't possibly entertain the notion that she was running late because of traffic. And that was before he described her job as teaching bored housewives how to twirl better. Boy, BYE.

Yeah, he would have moved heaven and earth to be somewhere for her only if it was convenient for him, and his siblings hadn't already reserved his time for whatever emotional crisis they were having.  I'll say that I've been in the situation where I have wrongly presumed someone's lack of a response to my call was purposeful, but I don't know that I've been quite as vicious as Randall in responding to the situation.  I mean the comment about teaching bored housewives to twirl was so nasty, and gives Beth way too good an idea as to how Randall views her and her job.   

[ShadowFacts]

Kevin can't make a final decision about having kids, or having Zoe, right now.  He's newly sober again, that has to be his priority.  He made his choice in like one day?  That's impulsivity rearing its ugly head again, it's the Pearson way.  He just chooses an AA meeting right near Sophie's?  I know he's trying to find the right fit, but that was his choice to walk by her place.  Why?  He's not as fully committed to Zoe as he thinks, and he doesn't know what he wants.  He doesn't want to be alone. 

[bichonblitz]

Beth is not a saint because she heard Randall's phone msg and still showed up at dinner, albeit late. She clearly said she was stuck in traffic and her phone was dead. She asked to charge it once she made it to dinner. She probably listened to her msgs after her phone was charged and she was still at the dinner. You can see how her demeanor changed later in the night. 

Beth told Randall she would go to the dinner, then changed her mind after being invited to drinks. Why is that ok? They are both behaving like self involved shits, neither one is more right than the other. 

[Haleth]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

First he decides he'd rather TP with his friends than dance with his girlfriend, and then he peer pressures her into joining in when she clearly didn't want to.

Weren't Rebecca and Jack supposed to be chaperoning?  Yet their own kid was off TPing a classroom?  Way to watch the kids, Pearsons.

All of the Big 3 are insufferable now.  I'm losing interest in this show because none of them show any emotional maturity.  (Randall has the nerve to tell Beth to grow up?  Seriously?)  Each new crisis just emphasizes how self absorbed and clueless they all are.  Most Tues nights I forget to turn the show on until my husband changes the channel.  I really think the show has run its course, lost its luster.  What started as a brilliant idea is now sort of mundane, with characters who are no longer very likable.

[luna1122]

59 minutes ago, love2lovebadtv said:

I do like that Zoe said it wasn't just her background but also liking the life she had. How refreshing. I've always known I wanted children, but I'm all for choosing what works best for your life and not just going with the default. I found it interesting that they didn't know this about each other, especially since Kate declared herself the only person to carry a piece of Jack or whatever remark she made. I know that hurt Randall. I thought Kevin was upset about it, too. Maybe he wasn't dating Zoe back then. 

I've known since I was 8 I didn't want kids. Everyone told me I'd change my  mind. All these decades later: nope. Never  for a second wanted them. Never wavered, never doubted, never wondered. I wasn't abused, I'm not super ambitious with a 70 hour work week, I don't have any specific, dramatic reason for not being interested in having children. Just don't. So yeah, Kevin just assuming everyone wants kids cuz it's what people do, and that Zoe not wanting them probably has something to do with her abuse is a little annoying to me too. Some of the things I've heard and the looks I've gotten when I say I never wanted kids are ridiculous. It'd be nice for it to be seen, on TV and in real life, as simply one more valid choice in life.

I love Sophie. Minority, I know, but there are obviously a few of us here. I'm glad she's moved on (but what's the time frame on them and their breakup? A year or something? They both moved on to really serious relationships really quickly) but I still had hope for them. Of course, who knows, still? I also agree that Zoe loves Kevin but was kind of hoping this was a way out of it all. Not that she DOES want kids--I fully believe she doesn't--but that it would be a deal breaker for Kevin and then she wouldn't be the chick who broke up with the addict.

Beth and Randall are both on my last nerves.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Beth told Randall she would go to the dinner, then changed her mind after being invited to drinks. Why is that ok? They are both behaving like self involved shits, neither one is more right than the other. 

It’s not okay. However, she had made it clear she was tired of her needs and wants being pushed aside for what Randall decided. So she pretty much said “enough.” I think she should have kept her commitment to dinner since she had agreed to it, but that doesn’t justify the voicemail he left her. 

I’m glad Sophie moved on. Kevin Burt her badly twice, so I’m glad she’s no longer an option for him. Even though they had chemistry and she’ll probably always have some type of feelings for him due to their history, she needed to set a boundary.

[Blackie]

Randal and Beth's girls are old enough to be home alone for the 1 hour between parents coming and going,  Deja and Tess are old enough to help with dinner and they are definitely old enough to be doing the dishes!!!  Why does Randal have to come home and do dishes when there are 3 kids in the house!

[JudyObscure]

This show.  I learn so much from it about the world around me and how things are viewed today, all so different from when I was the Big Three's age.  I told my husband this morning about Randall's voice mail and their issues and the general anti-Randall tone of this board and we just don't know what to think.  We've been married 39 years and our marriage, our division of labor, priority of jobs, etc. is so different.  His Air Force job always came before my banking jobs because, one, he earned twice as much, and two, it was understood that when he got reassigned, I would have to quit my job and start over at the new town (or new country.)  I have always done 100% of the housework and yard work, and that's because I'm OCD about it all and don't want anyone else touching my perfect linen closets or trimming the shurbs. This aggravates my women friends who might feel the same way about their linen closets, but by damn are going to make him do his half whether they really want to go back and do it right or not.  So we seem like a traditional, unequal partnership on the outside but we, and most of my friends my age, are so much more independent than the young couples we know who can't go five minutes without texting each other and must be supportive of every little thing the other one does. 

During his 22 year military career I went to exactly two functions.  This is one spousal unit who felt no need to smile by his side  during long awards dinners.  I never once called him at work and he only called me one time.  We figured news could wait until we got home.  Now that we're retired he volunteers three days a week at a non-profit charity.  I never go along, I feel I serve by doing everything at home so he has time.  He goes to a Methodist church and plays in the contemporary Christian band.  I go to the Episocpal church.  We meet afterward for lunch.  He plays in the local orchestra, I go listen once every few years. (Yawn) I love ballet and most of my life was one of Beth's  women taking night classes.  My husband never once asked to see me dance.  We neither one own cell phones, you couldn't pay us to carry one of those things around all day.

So.  I thought Randall was just talking to himself when he was sending that voice mail, but, even knowing he really sent it,  I simply can't hate him and get on board with the "he became a different, unforgiveable person" thing.  He thought she had stood him up without so much as a word and was refusing to answer his texts.  He was angry and people sometimes do get angry and say awful things in the moment.  That moment doesn't negate years of being a devoted husband and father, even one with selfish tendencies. 

Beth has every right to "pursue her dreams" but she should never have picked this moment in their lives to do it.  If she had told him before he ran for city council that she wanted to teach dance in the evenings and so he couldn't take that sort of job, it would be different, but she didn't and now it's just not possible for them both to be working after school hours without all this frantic stress we're witnessing.  She's not being practical and I think they're both being stupid.  They have kids to finish raising.  If Beth can't say, "I'm sorry I can't go for drinks, I have kids to get home to, " and Randall can't say, "I would love to come to dinner, but my wife wont be able to come, she works in the evenings, " then there's something wrong with those jobs.  People aren't hired for unlimited hours or guaranteed spousal participation.  Those things should never be part of any job.

Also.  Beth arriving at the dinner late and then immediately asking to further disrupt dinner by charging her phone?  How rude was that?

Edited March 20, 2019 by JudyObscure

[ElectricBoogaloo]

5 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

what's the time frame on them and their breakup? A year or something?

I think it's been around a year. She said that she met Grant shortly after she and Kevin broke up and that he proposed six months later. She's still engaged, not married, and most people take 6-12 months to plan a wedding so it would fit that she and Kevin broke up about a year ago.

44 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

When his ex told him that he always gets what he wants, I thought that meant that she might end up back with him.  Kind of like leaving the door open.  Perhaps I am reading that conversation wrong.  I hope I am wrong.

I didn't read it that way at all. I thought she was just pointing out that because he is attractive and charming, he has gotten a lot of things in life that he wanted without even having to think about it. That's not to say that everything in his life has been perfect, just that he hasn't realized the extent to which he has gotten what he wanted because he has been able to coast on his good looks and charm. Zoe even pointed out in therapy how easily he charms people, including herself and their therapist.

[Conotocarious]

I don’t understand why it was so important for Randall to be at Beth’s first recital. Especially after she came home and found him asleep in his work. And then she needles him about being late? Come on, man.

He was a jerk for the voicemail and for his drop everything and upheave our lives for my whims attitude but they are both exhausting with their self-absorption. Why did they have kids again? It’s hilarious how the kids have less than ten seconds screen time. And adding a third kid on a whim? They make their own beds with the stress and anxiety. 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Conotocarious

[alexvillage]

7 hours ago, Infie said:

I acually find Randall's behaviour pretty plausible, if I take the position that This is Us is trying to show people as they are instead of idealized versions of what they 'should' be.  People are assholes sometimes, and unreasonable sometimes, and hurtful and thoughtless sometimes, even if they're otherwise good people.  In this case, Randall's tired and has been running non-stop because he's trying to be everything to everyone, and yeah, he has the same sort of internal attitude to Beth's dancing as Jack did towards Rebecca's singing, and he was stressed and frustrated and angry and he lashed out - which is what stressed, frustrated angry people do.  This does not in any way excuse his behaviour, but it makes it more realistic to me that if he had been sweet and kind and supportive in that voicemail.  

That being said, what a terrible voicemail to leave!  If I were Beth I'd be just as furious and I'd be considering ending the relationship.  Respect in marriage is not optional, and showing that kind of contempt for your partner is the height of unacceptable behaviour.  

That's a very interesting take I had not pondered. It makes sense. If the writers are not writing the show as you see it, they should. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 minutes ago, Blackie said:

Randal and Beth's girls are old enough to be home alone for the 1 hour between parents coming and going,  Deja and Tess are old enough to help with dinner and they are definitely old enough to be doing the dishes!!!  Why does Randal have to come home and do dishes when there are 3 kids in the house!

This is one of my biggest pet peeves when I watch tv shows with kids. How do none of these kids have any chores or responsibilities around the house? At the very least they should be washing the dishes after dinner and doing their own laundry, yet almost every tv show has the parents putting their kids' washed and folded laundry into their dresser drawers and washing the dishes after the kids go to bed. Deja and Tess are definitely old enough to handle simple chores like that. I can't remember how old Annie is supposed to be, but she is capable of helping out too.

[Marci]

The scene where Toby asks Kate how she can smile and sing, when all he sees are tubes...etc.  ?  Kate’s response was not written by a mother.  A mother wouldn’t say, I see us.  A mother would say, I see our baby who needs me to protect him fiercely.  And that means stomping on and crushing every fear I have for him, so that all he feels is my unstoppable love for him.  So that all he senses is my unshakeable confidence that I will care for him as best as I can, and my best is damn good.

[Marci]

12 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I simply can't hate him and get on board with the "he became a different, unforgiveable person" thing. 

Agreed.  When my husband is an ass, I call him out on it, maybe am angry for a bit, and we move on.  And vice versa.  It’s life.  

[Conotocarious]

One of the things that irritates me most is next week when Randall and Beth have their fight next week, she won’t say all the things that need to be said about what he’s done since season one. Its spelled out so brilliantly here week after week but she won’t say it. 

[Conotocarious]

12 minutes ago, Marci said:

The scene where Toby asks Kate how she can smile and sing, when all he sees are tubes...etc.  ?  Kate’s response was not written by a mother.  A mother wouldn’t say, I see us.  A mother would say, I see our baby who needs me to protect him fiercely.  And that means stomping on and crushing every fear I have for him, so that all he feels is my unstoppable love for him.  So that all he senses is my unshakeable confidence that I will care for him as best as I can, and my best is damn good.

Well, I don’t know. I am a mother and I’m pretty sure in that situation I would have been the Toby. I have horrible anxiety particularly about health and I would have been unable to be there for blood draws and catheters. It made me faint watching it. There’s no right response. Mothers all have different reactions to things.

[Lady Calypso]

6 hours ago, bros402 said:

Second, so obviously, Zoe and Kevin are going to break up next season. I'm guessing Zoe will learn she is pregnant, Kevin will see it as a "see, now she'll want kids!" moment, then Zoe gets an abortion and Kevin gets angry that he didn't get his way for once.
 

I actually don't think this will happen. Kevin can definitely be an ass, but Zoe was clear in why she didn't want kids. Plus, Sophie pointing out to Kevin that he always gets what he wants (and that being a surprise to him) may have helped steer him to another reaction when the subject of kids eventually is brought back up. At the very least, I think Kevin's reaction won't be out of anger since he knows Zoe doesn't want kids for sure, even if she was pregnant. 

I honestly feel like Kevin's grown too much for him to get seriously angry at Zoe if she was pregnant and got an abortion. I think he'd be sad about it, but not pissed at her.

3 hours ago, debraran said:

The baby thing is copy/paste from MLT show but I feel Kevin will change his mind, how does he decide this now? Like other posts have said here, it isn't a time to decide and for her to expect him to make a decision right then, it's just obvious he is 4 days sober and not in the state of mind to think of anything but that.

Exactly. I think that Kevin is making a huge mistake here in not taking more time to decide. I don't think he should be making an impulsive decision after a couple of hours of thinking about it. But I get why; he's afraid of being alone, and in this moment, he loves Zoe now and wants her now and hasn't even thought about having kids any time soon. So, while he's going through sobriety and trying to stay clean, he's not even in a remotely good position to be making a huge decision like this. He should have allowed himself a couple of weeks to really decide, but I get that his fear is losing Zoe now.

2 hours ago, debraran said:

My beef with the "no kids" thing is that it is always alluding to abuse as a reason why, the same thing they did with gay individuals in the past, "he/she must have been abused to think this way".

I know Zoe was abused by her dad, on TIU, Regina had an uncle and although she hasn't put the two together, I figure give it time.

If they had ONE show where a woman decided that and wasn't a workaholic or abused, I think it would be great. TV isn't a good education but when you put the idea in heads that is the only reason for not wanting kids, a certain group always feel it might be when they meet someone who doesn't.  Can't stop that but it would be nice to see someone who just doesn't want to have any, not a great pull, or maybe wants to adopt an older child later in life. The abuse thing is way overused.

Agreed with this, to an extent. But at least, unlike AMLT, Zoe could discuss the other reasons why she doesn't want kids (liking her life the way it is now, mostly). And here, I don't feel like Zoe's going to be changing her mind about kids.

11 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

I don’t understand why it was so important for Randall to be at Beth’s first recital. Especially after she came home and found him asleep in his work. And then she needles him about being late? Come on, man.

He was a jerk for the voicemail and for his drop everything and upheave our lives for my whims attitude but they are both exhausting with their self-absorption. Why did they have kids again? It’s hilarious how the kids have less than ten seconds screen time. And adding a third kid on a whim? They make their own beds with the stress and anxiety. 

Well, I can see why it's a big deal. This is Beth's first recital. Everyone's firsts, no matter how big or small they are, are important so for Beth, she wanted Randall there to be supportive. It's like Randall wanting Beth there for his first event or when he bought that building. You go to support your spouse for something new because it's the right thing to do. Plus, Randall and Beth BOTH agreed to this new life of theirs. Randall had to drive 2 hours home already. The recital was at 7:30 so all Beth was asking was for him to make sure he wasn't late. It wasn't like she was asking him to leave really early to get home; just that he made sure he was back in time. 

But yes, I do know that both are making some really bad decisions with this arc and....honestly, it really DOES suck that they have Randall regressing to this person. It's clear that he's more in the wrong than Beth and it does suck. Both parents need to be making better choices, if not for them, then for their kids. Beth should be voicing her opinion more frequently. Randall should be more accommodating to his wife's needs and sacrifice something instead of her doing it. They were lucky when Randall was working full time and Beth was working part time, when things were good. But this is a major strain in their marriage, and how they react and deal with it speaks volumes about both of their characters. 

27 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I think it's been around a year. She said that she met Grant shortly after she and Kevin broke up and that he proposed six months later. She's still engaged, not married, and most people take 6-12 months to plan a wedding so it would fit that she and Kevin broke up about a year ago.

Kevin and Sophie did break up right before he went to his high school reunion and before he got sober for the first time, so they've been broken up for over a year (my best guess is that it's been a year and three months?). So I'd say it's fairly reasonable for Sophie to have moved on. It's not like Kevin and Sophie's second tryst at a relationship lasted long (I think they only dated around seven -eight months that time around?) and they already have heavy baggage so I think this time, it was just easier for Sophie to move on. It's not a bad thing, since Kevin did treat her badly. But, since it sounds like she was in no contact with the Pearsons since she broke up with Kevin, it still hit her hard. 

[marceline]

Can I just say that Beth Pearson is one hell of an actress? To have heard that message and still sit at that dinner playing the doting wife the way she did was some Meryl Streep level acting. I enjoyed her calling him out for making it even longer by having another cup of coffee because she must've been screaming inside at that. The sad truth is we've been headed here for a while.  As soon as Randall bought William's building he's been finding one stressor after another to his marriage (BTW, is anybody still working on the repairs to that building? Does he have a super that he's paying?) He had NO business running for office at all but the real break came when Beth asked him to drop out and he wouldn't. Everything else has just been salt in that wound.

I honestly don't know what to make of Kevin and Zoe. I feel like they've been together a short time and in that short time it's just been all angst. Her abusive past, her moving in, his relapse, and now they're talking about kids? Also maybe now is not to time to make big decisions like that when the Kevin only has a week of sobriety back under his belt.

Toby bonding with the dad in the waiting room was a nice moment. I found myself thinking "Look at the nice conversations this show can have when you don't have one of the Pearsons telling some drawn out monologue."

[Conotocarious]

The Toby-Gavin conversation was the best scene of the show. Great acting, talented actors.

[preeya]

Randall's damning phone message:

What, did you turn your phone off so you wouldn't have to deal with me while you're busy standing me up?

(LAUGHS)

You know, if you had told me something was this important to you,

Heaven and Earth couldn't have stopped me from being there.

But maybe that's the difference between us. I don't know.

I hope it was worth it. Okay?

I hope you're off having fun talking about
how to teach bored housewives how to twirl better.

Grow the hell up, Beth.

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, preeya said:

Randall's damning phone message:

What, did you turn your phone off so you wouldn't have to deal with me while you're busy standing me up?

(LAUGHS)

You know, if you had told me something was this important to you,

Heaven and Earth couldn't have stopped me from being there.

But maybe that's the difference between us. I don't know.

I hope it was worth it. Okay?

I hope you're off having fun talking about
how to teach bored housewives how to twirl better.

Grow the hell up, Beth.

Yeah....reading the actual transcript for his message, it really IS bad. I definitely think these two need marriage counseling, stat. 

[PRgal]

50 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

This show.  I learn so much from it about the world around me and how things are viewed today, all so different from when I was the Big Three's age.  I told my husband this morning about Randall's voice mail and their issues and the general anti-Randall tone of this board and we just don't know what to think.  We've been married 39 years and our marriage, our division of labor, priority of jobs, etc. is so different.  His Air Force job always came before my banking jobs because, one, he earned twice as much, and two, it was understood that when he got reassigned, I would have to quit my job and start over at the new town (or new country.)  I have always done 100% of the housework and yard work, and that's because I'm OCD about it all and don't want anyone else touching my perfect linen closets or trimming the shurbs. This aggravates my women friends who might feel the same way about their linen closets, but by damn are going to make him do his half whether they really want to go back and do it right or not.  So we seem like a traditional, unequal partnership on the outside but we, and most of my friends my age, are so much more independent than the young couples we know who can't go five minutes without texting each other and must be supportive of every little thing the other one does. 

During his 22 year military career I went to exactly two functions.  This is one spousal unit who felt no need to smile by his side  during long awards dinners.  I never once called him at work and he only called me one time.  We figured news could wait until we got home.  Now that we're retired he volunteers three days a week at a non-profit charity.  I never go along, I feel I serve by doing everything at home so he has time.  He goes to a Methodist church and plays in the contemporary Christian band.  I hate that shit.  I go to the Episocpal church.  We meet afterward for lunch.  He plays in the local orchestra, I go listen once every few years. (Yawn) I love ballet and most of my life was one of Beth's  women taking night classes.  My husband never once asked to see me dance.  We neither one own cell phones, you couldn't pay us to carry one of those things around all day.

So.  I thought Randall was just talking to himself when he was sending that voice mail, but, even knowing he really sent it,  I simply can't hate him and get on board with the "he became a different, unforgiveable person" thing.  He thought she had stood him up without so much as a word and was refusing to answer his texts.  He was angry and people sometimes do get angry and say awful things in the moment.  That moment doesn't negate years of being a devoted husband and father, even one with selfish tendencies. 

Beth has every right to "pursue her dreams" but she should never have picked this moment in their lives to do it.  If she had told him before he ran for city council that she wanted to teach dance in the evenings and so he couldn't take that sort of job, it would be different, but she didn't and now it's just not possible for them both to be working after school hours without all this frantic stress we're witnessing.  She's not being practical and I think they're both being stupid.  They have kids to finish raising.  If Beth can't say, "I'm sorry I can't go for drinks, I have kids to get home to, " and Randall can't say, "I would love to come to dinner, but my wife wont be able to come, she works in the evenings, " then there's something wrong with those jobs.  People aren't hired for unlimited hours or guaranteed spousal participation.  Those things should never be part of any job.

Also.  Beth arriving at the dinner late and then immediately asking to further disrupt dinner by charging her phone?  How rude was that?

This must be a generational thing.  My parents have been married for over 45 years and my mom gave up her career when my dad was transferred abroad.  We all moved (and I barely survived that year we were away.  I would have come home to boarding school had a day spot not opened up at the same school).  She was already fairly senior when we moved and could have gone up even higher had she stayed.  My mom knew she was sacrificing this possibility.  And why did she have to?  I have a son, and I sure as heck don't want him to grow up to believe that women have to be the one sacrificing everything for men to pursue THEIR dreams.  

Randall wanting to run for office was kind of impromptu.  So was Beth realizing she wanted to teach dance.  Both kind of had an "awakening" of some sort (okay, more Beth than Randall).  I don't see why neither can't have it.  But this could be a generational thing.  

[ams1001]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

He was late to her recital the night before but he couldn't possibly entertain the notion that she was running late because of traffic.

Especially knowing she would be driving down during evening rush hour, from basically NYC. Do you know how many people are heading south from the city at that at time of day?

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

See also: people asking women, "So when are you guys going to have kids?" at wedding receptions.

Heh. The morning after my cousin's wedding everyone had breakfast at the hotel before heading off. I heard someone jokingly say to his wife (of less than 24 hours) something about seeing her at "the baby shower." She laughed and responded with "No need to wait that long!" (They did have a kid but not until a few years later. He's four now and I'm pretty sure at this point they're not having any more.)

Edited March 20, 2019 by ams1001

[JudyObscure]

1 minute ago, PRgal said:

This must be a generational thing.  My parents have been married for over 45 years and my mom gave up her career when my dad was transferred abroad.  We all moved (and I barely survived that year we were away.  I would have come home to boarding school had a day spot not opened up at the same school).  She was already fairly senior when we moved and could have gone up even higher had she stayed.  My mom knew she was sacrificing this possibility.  And why did she have to?  I have a son, and I sure as heck don't want him to grow up to believe that women have to be the one sacrificing everything for men to pursue THEIR dreams.  

Oh yes, it's a generational thing, that's what I was saying.  Not that all women my age think alike but we usually wouldn't have expected the man, (your father) to be the one to give up his job because, in most cases, the man was making much more money and had been on the career ladder longer.  Women usually weren't hired if pregnant and often had to quit if she became pregnant so it was likely the wife didn't start her career until the children started first grade.  So, usually, it was just much more practical for the man to be the one to keep his job.  Don't think I'm not a feminist, I was a charter member of my local NOW, but for me it was always about equal opportunity, not the sort of, "you got this so now I get that"  thing that Beth and Randall seem locked into.  They just both seem selfish to me.  If neither person gives up their dream then divorce becomes the only answer and that just seems too big a price to pay for most people.

[Katy M]

12 minutes ago, PRgal said:

This must be a generational thing.  My parents have been married for over 45 years and my mom gave up her career when my dad was transferred abroad.  We all moved (and I barely survived that year we were away.  I would have come home to boarding school had a day spot not opened up at the same school).  She was already fairly senior when we moved and could have gone up even higher had she stayed.  My mom knew she was sacrificing this possibility.  And why did she have to?  I have a son, and I sure as heck don't want him to grow up to believe that women have to be the one sacrificing everything for men to pursue THEIR dreams.  

This seems significantly different than Randall and Beth's situation.  Your father had an existing job (was it military because that's what I generally think of when I hear "transferred abroad", but reaized that's an assumption) where he was transferred.  So, one of them was going to have to give up their job.  I don't know if they discussed it or not, or who was making more money, but this does not sound unreasonable to me.  Randall yelling at Beth when he chose to pursue a new job hours away and their kids are old enough to not need constant care, is entirely different.  Especially as it seems there is usually some one able to be home between the two of them.

11 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Heh. The morning after my cousin's wedding everyone had breakfast at the hotel before heading off. I heard someone jokingly say to his wife (of less than 24 hours) something about seeing her at "the baby shower." She laughed and responded with "No need to wait that long!" (They did have a kid but not until a few years later. He's four now and I'm pretty sure at this point they're not having any more.)

On the other hand, my sister was 5 or 6 months pregnant at her first wedding, so it really wasn't much of a question:)

[PRgal]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

This seems significantly different than Randall and Beth's situation.  Your father had an existing job (was it military because that's what I generally think of when I hear "transferred abroad", but reaized that's an assumption) where he was transferred.  So, one of them was going to have to give up their job.  I don't know if they discussed it or not, or who was making more money, but this does not sound unreasonable to me.  Randall yelling at Beth when he chose to pursue a new job hours away and their kids are old enough to not need constant care, is entirely different.  Especially as it seems there is usually some one able to be home between the two of them.

On the other hand, my sister was 5 or 6 months pregnant at her first wedding, so it really wasn't much of a question:)

Nope, Dad's in finance.  It wasn't really a new job offer either as he was already working for the company.  "Transferred abroad" is probably the best description.  

I still don't get Randall/Beth's situation.  Deja can take the bus to her after school activities (my friend's son is a few years younger - probably Tess's age - and took the bus with his friends, sans chaperones, for the first time recently!) and the other girls can probably take part in carpools with their friends.  Beth can drive the kids on days she isn't teaching.  

[Tikichick]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

This show.  I learn so much from it about the world around me and how things are viewed today, all so different from when I was the Big Three's age.  I told my husband this morning about Randall's voice mail and their issues and the general anti-Randall tone of this board and we just don't know what to think.  We've been married 39 years and our marriage, our division of labor, priority of jobs, etc. is so different.  His Air Force job always came before my banking jobs because, one, he earned twice as much, and two, it was understood that when he got reassigned, I would have to quit my job and start over at the new town (or new country.)  I have always done 100% of the housework and yard work, and that's because I'm OCD about it all and don't want anyone else touching my perfect linen closets or trimming the shurbs. This aggravates my women friends who might feel the same way about their linen closets, but by damn are going to make him do his half whether they really want to go back and do it right or not.  So we seem like a traditional, unequal partnership on the outside but we, and most of my friends my age, are so much more independent than the young couples we know who can't go five minutes without texting each other and must be supportive of every little thing the other one does. 

During his 22 year military career I went to exactly two functions.  This is one spousal unit who felt no need to smile by his side  during long awards dinners.  I never once called him at work and he only called me one time.  We figured news could wait until we got home.  Now that we're retired he volunteers three days a week at a non-profit charity.  I never go along, I feel I serve by doing everything at home so he has time.  He goes to a Methodist church and plays in the contemporary Christian band.  I hate that shit.  I go to the Episocpal church.  We meet afterward for lunch.  He plays in the local orchestra, I go listen once every few years. (Yawn) I love ballet and most of my life was one of Beth's  women taking night classes.  My husband never once asked to see me dance.  We neither one own cell phones, you couldn't pay us to carry one of those things around all day.

So.  I thought Randall was just talking to himself when he was sending that voice mail, but, even knowing he really sent it,  I simply can't hate him and get on board with the "he became a different, unforgiveable person" thing.  He thought she had stood him up without so much as a word and was refusing to answer his texts.  He was angry and people sometimes do get angry and say awful things in the moment.  That moment doesn't negate years of being a devoted husband and father, even one with selfish tendencies. 

Beth has every right to "pursue her dreams" but she should never have picked this moment in their lives to do it.  If she had told him before he ran for city council that she wanted to teach dance in the evenings and so he couldn't take that sort of job, it would be different, but she didn't and now it's just not possible for them both to be working after school hours without all this frantic stress we're witnessing.  She's not being practical and I think they're both being stupid.  They have kids to finish raising.  If Beth can't say, "I'm sorry I can't go for drinks, I have kids to get home to, " and Randall can't say, "I would love to come to dinner, but my wife wont be able to come, she works in the evenings, " then there's something wrong with those jobs.  People aren't hired for unlimited hours or guaranteed spousal participation.  Those things should never be part of any job.

Also.  Beth arriving at the dinner late and then immediately asking to further disrupt dinner by charging her phone?  How rude was that?

With all due respect, when one of the careers is military it's understood that there is effectively no flexibility on that side of the equation.  That's the gig.  It's not equivalent to Randall and Beth's situation.  Randall is the one arbitrarily deciding there is no effective flexibility on his side of the equation -- repeatedly.

When exactly will the right moment in their lives be for Beth to pursue her dreams?  We've only been privy to what, 3 years of their relationship?  It's been all Randall, all the time.  She had stepped back to part-time work to shoulder the bulk of the household/family duties because Randall's career was incredibly demanding.  I believe she made the transition back to full-time partially in light of his leaving his job post breakdown, partially because they were gearing up for that anyway.  Within a very short period of time Randall wants to take on a foster child -- right on the heels of the pregnancy scare where his wife revealed she was happy the girls were at a place where it freed her up to focus more time on her career.   William warned Beth that she was going to need to speak up to be heard.   He loved his son deeply, yet he saw the truth of the situation.     

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Conotocarious said:

I don’t understand why it was so important for Randall to be at Beth’s first recital. Especially after she came home and found him asleep in his work. And then she needles him about being late? Come on, man.

He was a jerk for the voicemail and for his drop everything and upheave our lives for my whims attitude but they are both exhausting with their self-absorption. Why did they have kids again? It’s hilarious how the kids have less than ten seconds screen time. And adding a third kid on a whim? They make their own beds with the stress and anxiety. 

I think the bigger issue is that Beth has put her career dreams (urban planning and dance) on hold for years for the good of the family. Then she and Randall decide he’s taking time off while she resumes her career, and then suddenly he decides to be a city council member. So she’s been backburner for years, and she finally thought it was “her turn” and nothing is working out, much of it because of Randall. 

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

This is one of my biggest pet peeves when I watch tv shows with kids. How do none of these kids have any chores or responsibilities around the house? At the very least they should be washing the dishes after dinner and doing their own laundry, yet almost every tv show has the parents putting their kids' washed and folded laundry into their dresser drawers and washing the dishes after the kids go to bed. Deja and Tess are definitely old enough to handle simple chores like that. I can't remember how old Annie is supposed to be, but she is capable of helping out too.

Right- they can’t be home alone for an hour in the afternoon or doing any chores, but then when Randall and Beth have a dinner, there is no word on where the kids are or who is with them. It’s plot contrivance.

[Evagirl]

10 hours ago, PepSinger said:

It’s not about him being a “brotha.” It’s about him being a shitty husband.

So true.  He is no Jack Pearson that's for sure.  Toby is more like Jack than Randall.  I think maybe the writers feel they made Randall too perfect the first couple of seasons, so now they're going in the other direction.  Whatever the writers are doing, it's working 'cause Randall is a first class, grade A butt-hole!

[JudyObscure]

8 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

When exactly will the right moment in their lives be for Beth to pursue her dreams?  We've only been privy to what, 3 years of their relationship?  It's been all Randall, all the time. 

I'd say in about four years.  Because I don't see Beth's life up until now being about Randall, but about the children and they will be much more able to do without parents in the evening in a few more years.   I don't really think Randall's job was all about Randall either, but about providing money for the family.  I worked from the time my son was four and until I was done paying for his college, my job was all about providing financially for him.  If at any time in my life I had won the lottery I would have resigned the next day.  Am I the only person who works for money and not because it's my dream?

[Tikichick]

11 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

For a very brief moment I was on Randall’s side. Beth’s last minute “I need to go out for drinks because they’re my new coworkers” just didn’t feel like a make or break for her in her job, at that point. And then...Randall returned to being the jerk he’s been all season. So blip of being on his side quickly passed. 

The thing with Randall is he throws all in on things and expects everyone else to go along. He did it with his bio dad then with deciding they needed to take on a foster kid, Deja. And now being a councilman. But he is shit at realizing the way his obsessions affect others. I thought the scene at the dance where he was obsessing in the library was a nice demo of that.

Oh and once again casting did a stellar job. Kid Rebecca in that brief flash looked like a mini Mandy Moore.

Beth's thing "just didn't feel like a make it or break it for her in her job"  -- yet Randall has been able to autocratically declare any damn daydream that flits through his mind as the utmost family priority at his whim.  Not even just his priority, but a family priority.  

10 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

I agree.

But she made Randall come to a recital that she wasn't even performing in. He showed up but that wasn't enough, she wanted him there so he could hear the boss praise her. What is she? A child? That was unnecessary.

I do agree that Randall has stepped way over the line. He seems to just do what he wants to. And then hopes everything will all fall into place.  Very dumb that he ran for this position. But, he accepted the victory and it has to be dealt with. Beth's job hours should have been discussed but she went ahead and accepted it without thinking,or talking to anyone.  They are both kind of stubborn.

Poor Kevin. Bad decision.

Don't throw things at me...lol

Her work was up there on that stage, work that she has been yearning for for 20 plus years.  Just because she wasn't the performer presenting it, it was still her choreography.   No doubt it was something she had put heart and soul into.  I found it shocking Randall and the girls didn't have their butts in the seats to cheer her on. 

[MissLucas]

Well, I was weary of Randall since season one. He always had that selfish streak in him. In season one it was less obvious and was easy to handwave, it became clearer in season two when he more or less tried to bully Beth into adopting a kid. The only surprise this season is that the show is willing to tear the character apart to this level.

I loved to finally see a tv couple seriously addressing the kids question before making any major commitments or even get married like some other couples that shall remain unnamed (you know who you are!). Even though I suspect Kevin will change his mind they were at least making an effort to talk about something so vital to any relationship.

And I love that the show is addressing how having it easy due to his looks and charm is actually a major contributing factor to Kevin's issues. Zoe calling out the therapist on becoming charmed by Kevin was a poignant moment. As was his talk with his ex.

I totally got Toby's reaction to seeing his tiny son in ICU and his struggle to connect. It was great that they decided to address his struggle without any guilt-tripping. 

Not that it matters much but the blue dress looked amazing on Beth. And she killed it during that dinner though I suspected all along that she had in fact received Randall's voice-mail. These two should follow Kevin and Zoe's example and get to a therapist - but of course they don't have the time for therapy because of their whiteboard from hell.

Edited March 20, 2019 by MissLucas

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, JudyObscure said:

I'd say in about four years.  Because I don't see Beth's life up until now being about Randall, but about the children and they will be much more able to do without parents in the evening in a few more years.   I don't really think Randall's job was all about Randall either, but about providing money for the family.  I worked from the time my son was four and until I was done paying for his college, my job was all about providing financially for him.  If at any time in my life I had won the lottery I would have resigned the next day.  Am I the only person who works for money and not because it's my dream?

The career Randall was in when we met him was absolutely the result of Randall's ambitions and dreams since childhood.  It absolutely provided a fabulous lifestyle for his family, but it was the product of his lifelong ambitions and dreams.  In the end it wasn't good for him and he was unable to continue.  Beth supported that just as fully as she had supported him in that all consuming career.  She had no problem stepping up and bringing in more money by returning to full-time work.  She'd still be doing the same if it hadn't have been taken away from her.  

In the same timeframe Randall's pursued multiple dreams with significant emotional/financial/time costs -- not only in regards to himself, but in regards to sacrifices he's asking of Beth and the girls too.  William warned Beth she was going to need to speak and be heard to get a turn or she would never get one.   It's high time Beth gets a turn.   Shame on Jack and Rebecca for raising a son, who was most definitely not an only child, who ultimately does not understand that there are indeed truly times when it's someone else's turn and that it requires much more than lip service.    

[preeya]

Question for the medical experts.  No attempt at being morbid, just asking.

Can a baby be born that early and that small realistically survive?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 minutes ago, preeya said:

Question for the medical experts.  No attempt at being morbid, just asking.

Can a baby be born that early and that small realistically survive?

In last week's episode thread, there were several posters who said they were preemies and they are alive and kicking!

[ams1001]

44 minutes ago, Katy M said:

On the other hand, my sister was 5 or 6 months pregnant at her first wedding, so it really wasn't much of a question:)

My best friend was five months at her wedding. They had already lived together for four years. I have another friend who got married around Halloween and her son was born just after Thanksgiving (though he was ten weeks early).

[nlkm9]

2 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Beth is not a saint because she heard Randall's phone msg and still showed up at dinner, albeit late. She clearly said she was stuck in traffic and her phone was dead. She asked to charge it once she made it to dinner. She probably listened to her msgs after her phone was charged and she was still at the dinner. You can see how her demeanor changed later in the night. 

Beth told Randall she would go to the dinner, then changed her mind after being invited to drinks. Why is that ok? They are both behaving like self involved shits, neither one is more right than the other. 

Ok first off i dont beleive for a second her phone was "dead" and that she does not own a car charger. no way. And I have stopped at the gas sttaion and bought one when I was in that sitaution--she was willing to drive 3 hours and not check on her kids? nope--dont buy it. she is  always on Randalls case--on everyones case-and she should have told Randall not to run---to ask himto dropout at last minute was ridiculous. I just dont like her at all, I tried but cannot warm up to her. Randall is a bit nuts too but she allows him to do these things, like adopt Deja (which turned out well but could have been a disaster) but in seeing the show it was interesting to see how anal he always was.

[kilda]

16 minutes ago, preeya said:

Question for the medical experts.  No attempt at being morbid, just asking.

Can a baby be born that early and that small realistically survive?

a 28 week preemie has an 80-90% chance of survival.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, preeya said:

Question for the medical experts.  No attempt at being morbid, just asking.

Can a baby be born that early and that small realistically survive?

Yes. 28 weekers have a 90% chance of survival statistically. My friend’s 24 weeker survived after a long NICU stay. I had two NICU babies, but they were born after the 30 week mark. It’s not an easy road, but these days, they can do amazing things for the preemies.

[anniebird]

Randall is being portrayed as a crappy husband but Beth isn't a saint either. The second her boss asked her to join them for drinks she should have said, "I'm sorry, I'd love to but I have a prior commitment." It makes her look good, not bad, that she honors her commitments. My husband and I both worked and raised two children - his was pretty much 9-5, mine was at an airline with a 24 hour operation and required a lot of flexibility on my part. We made it work with a lot of compromise and hiring responsible child care when necessary.  Beth and Randall are both being very selfish right now.