S03.E03: Et in Arcadia

[3 is enough]

4 hours ago, Dirtybubble said:

The actor that plays Fracatelli is sooo HAWT and the actress of Skerrit is stunning!  I just didn't realize how attractive these people were until you get them out of their work clothes.

The actor who plays Francatelli is Ben Kingsley's son.  

[Nolefan]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

I didn't see that scene as Victoria being mean.  I saw her as struggling to speak without breaking into tears.   She didn't say very much, but her face froze, she started to get tears in her eyes, and turned away as soon as she could.  That's when we saw her break down and cry.

I saw it more like Victoria being despondent because her people did not love her anymore, and Skerrett resigning was just another person who she thought adored her taking their love away. My view was solidified after the snarky comment Victoria made to Skerett later in the show when she finished brushing her hair.

 

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I'm sure Victoria does crave adoration to some extent but Albert is being just as selfish as Victoria in this instance and it doesn't serve anyone's interest except for Albert's to remain at Osbourne House. It's not good for the monarchy and it doesn't really matter much to the children either - they can spend just as much time with their father in London. So even if both parties are motivated by self interest I still say Albert's is the more selfish one. Victoria's is more practical. 

I disagree that it doesn’t really make much difference to the children. The children had the gardening, beach, fishing — they got to be away from Court Life in London, and appreciate being kids not Royals, which was important to Albert. Also, because Albert designed the house, it was special to him. Victoria from the time she got the news about the Chartists spent her time criticizing everything that was important to him. They were both being selfish and childish. 

Spoiler

In real life, Albert and Victoria bought Osborne House because one of Victoria’s favorite childen memories was spending time at the seashore. And Victoria died there. Surprised that the show portrayed as Victoria not liking the beach.

[iMonrey]

Quote

The actor who plays Francatelli is Ben Kingsley's son.  

Whaaaatttt?? I did not know that!

[3 is enough]

10 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Whaaaatttt?? I did not know that!

Neither did I.  I wanted to see what he looks like in real life and google gave me this interesting fact.

[Zella]

I'd like to watch Ferdinand Kingsley in something else besides Victoria. He's definitely striking looking, and my dislike for Francatelli is mainly in the writing, not his performance, so I'd like to see him in another role. 

[Nolefan]

19 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Even if it was unrealistic, I enjoyed the dickens out of Victoria throwing that water into Albert’s face. 😆He just annoys the 💩 out of me. I want to take a pair scissors to those foppish curls that are always in his face.

Joseph is a hottie! Add me to the no butt blurring posse. 😏

Albert is the hottie. Love the banges, especially when they blow in the wind like in yesterday’s episode. LOVE Victoria, but she is only tolerable to me with Albert challenging her. Sometimes I think he has the patience of Job when Victoria starts her Scarlett O’Hara routine. The wine throwing was accurate. However, I guess it is domestic violence when a man does it. Luckily, Albert is there to teach Bertie not to hit girls, as shown in the show. 

Joseph is the spitting image of a young Rufus Sewell, which I am 100 percent convinced is on purpose. His beach frolicking did nothing for me — looked like some stupid frat dude. Actually, felt bad for the poor actor and embarrassed as a woman if the powers that be think they need to do stupid stuff like this to get women to watch.

[dargosmydaddy]

5 minutes ago, Nolefan said:

His beach frolicking did nothing for me — looked like some stupid frat dude.

I spent both beach scenes wondering why he wore his uniform to the beach. I mean, dude, no duh your uniform is going to be a mess if you just fling it in the sand, not to mention he's going to be super conspicuous coming and going. Was there a reason he couldn't change once he got back to the house? Even if there was, he could have at least left the wig behind, no? That was just bizarre to me. 

[dubbel zout]

4 hours ago, Ohmo said:

My first thought about Palmerston is always about how tall he is.

Laurence Fox is 6'3".

[voiceover]

I know this is a real reach, but the first thing that came to my mind, watching Penge glumly drumming to the wee Royal re-enactment? A scene from one of James Herriot's books.  

The wealthy & eccentric Mrs Pumphrey shows up in (IIRC) both All Things Bright and Beautiful and All Creatures Great and Small.  First we meet the spoilt, chubby Peke Tricki Woo; then she gets a little pig, and dubs him "Nugent" (after an uncle).  When Herriot is summoned to her house to examine her new pet, he runs into her Penge-like gardner, now forced by his employer to be "personal valet to a pig".  The elderly Yorkshireman can't pronounce the pig's actual name, so when he sees the vet, he grouses, "Hasta come t'see Nudist?"

And anyway.  I totally thought of that, watching a horrified Penge beat that toy drum. 

Seeing myself out, etc.

[freddi]

8 hours ago, monakane said:

8 hours ago, Popples said:

The trend-setting fashions that came about because of him alone would be great. I would have never guessed he is responsible for the vertical crease in men's trousers (because he had gained so much weight and realized the effect was a bit slimming).

 I would love for PBS to do a series on Bertie aka Edward VII.  He was quite the character.

The series "Lily" (about the actress Lily Langtree; beautiful production) included episodes that featured Bertie as Prince, when she was one of his mistresses.  Have not seen it in many years, but the Bertie/Lily interactions were memorable!  

Edited January 29, 2019 by freddi

[Brn2bwild]

I know there are certain things I should just accept about this show.  Victoria and Albert will always be prettier than the true historical figures were.  Victoria will be maternal and fair here, whereas she was cold and capricious in real life (though she showed some maternal warmth toward her grandchildren).  But ughhh, something really bugged me about the scene where she was pulled out of the ocean and Lord Palmerston just stood over her.  The real Queen would never permit that, and in real life, wouldn't he have been forced to wait at the residence until she returned?

[j5cochran]

1 hour ago, freddi said:

The series "Lily" (about the actress Lily Langtree; beautiful production) included episodes that featured Bertie as Prince, when she was one of his mistresses.  Have not seen it in many years, but the Bertie/Lily interactions were memorable!  

Before Lillie (1978 -- her name was Lillie in England but she came to be known as Lily in the U.S.), there was Edward the Seventh (1975), a 13-part mini-series with mostly the same cast.  An excellent introduction to the late Victorians, and to Edward the Playboy who became Edward the Uncle of Europe!

[freddi]

8 minutes ago, j5cochran said:

Before Lillie (1978 -- her name was Lillie in England but she came to be known as Lily in the U.S.), there was Edward the Seventh (1975), a 13-part mini-series with mostly the same cast.  An excellent introduction to the late Victorians, and to Edward the Playboy who became Edward the Uncle of Europe!

Thanks for the spelling correction and info about the other series, which I never have seen!  

[LittleIggy]

4 hours ago, Nolefan said:

Albert is the hottie. Love the banges, especially when they blow in the wind like in yesterday’s episode. LOVE Victoria, but she is only tolerable to me with Albert challenging her. Sometimes I think he has the patience of Job when Victoria starts her Scarlett O’Hara routine. The wine throwing was accurate. However, I guess it is domestic violence when a man does it. Luckily, Albert is there to teach Bertie not to hit girls, as shown in the show. 

Joseph is the spitting image of a young Rufus Sewell, which I am 100 percent convinced is on purpose. His beach frolicking did nothing for me — looked like some stupid frat dude. Actually, felt bad for the poor actor and embarrassed as a woman if the powers that be think they need to do stupid stuff like this to get women to watch.

He doesn’t look anything like Rufus Sewell to me, and I am a huge RS fan.

[LittleIggy]

18 minutes ago, j5cochran said:

Before Lillie (1978 -- her name was Lillie in England but she came to be known as Lily in the U.S.), there was Edward the Seventh (1975), a 13-part mini-series with mostly the same cast.  An excellent introduction to the late Victorians, and to Edward the Playboy who became Edward the Uncle of Europe!

Timothy West played Bertie. I became fond of Bertie from watching that series.

[Kohola3]

9 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

But ughhh, something really bugged me about the scene where she was pulled out of the ocean and Lord Palmerston just stood over her. 

And wouldn't someone have rushed to aid the nearly drowned Queen?  At least offer to help her up?  That was bizarre.

[Nolefan]

21 hours ago, Zella said:

The archery game was a rather ingenious way to learn letters. My brother struggled with dyslexia, and learning to read was very hard for him as a result. He would have loved that game!

Speaking as someone who used to teach, I thought Albert's treatment of Bertie was too severe and a rather ineffective way to approach education (drill and kill), but from a 19th century standpoint, it was a pretty standard approach to teaching. I doubt that real-life Victoria would have looked askance at it or accused Albert of bullying her son. In fact, my impression is she shared Albert's disappointment in and exasperation with Bertie. 

I was a little floored that the show went there to the point of Victoria accusing Albert of bullying HER son. Even the fact and fiction stuff that PBS sends on Twitter says that IRL BOTH Victoria and Albert were concerned about Bertie to the extent of being harsh with him. Why on Earth did Daisy Goodwin then choose to make only Albert look like the bad guy and actually have Victoria look like some protecting mama bear?? Sometimes I feel that Daisy has a low key dislike for Prince Albert, which causes her to twist things to always paint him in the most unflattering light possible. And if you read the fact and fiction stuff from PBS, it seems that all the good things that Victoria is shown doing on the show are revealed as fiction (the Chartist storyline, her not liking the Isle of Wight, the ship speech from S2). So Daisy paints Victoria as better than she was, and compares her to real life Albert, which makes Victoria look like some superhero standing up for women’s rights. I LOVE this show, but sometimes....

[TaurusRose]

On 1/28/2019 at 12:54 AM, Razzberry said:

'Bout time Victoria started raging.   Albert's hair gets longer and darker each episode.   Wasn't he balding by then?

The Duchess and studly footman is such a trope, but it's 100% better than Skerrit and Francotelli.  

1

Of all the inaccuracies in this show, this is the one people want to harp on?  Okay, then.

On 1/28/2019 at 1:42 AM, magdalene said:

Feodora playing Victoria and Albert against each other - it seems a scheme that will surely end badly.

 

Agreed.

On 1/28/2019 at 1:43 AM, izabella said:

 I hated Feodora at first, but now she makes me laugh with her passive-aggressive sarcasm. 

 

Feodora is a pain and homely. 

On 1/28/2019 at 8:46 AM, Kohola3 said:

That was just too bizarre for words.  I know that people get carried away by their emotions but the royals seem so concerned with public appearance that this was difficult to image actually happening.  Even when she's been angry with someone before, Victoria went the "freeze them out" route and never raised her voice.

And would any door in the castle be locked against the queen?  Found that hard to believe as well.  I'm surprised she didn't get some guard to break it down.

I wondered about eyesight problems with Bertie as well.  It seemed that he was squinting a lot when trying to see things at a distance.  Although he did pretty darned well with a bow and arrow, nailing those squares dead on.  

I think Victoria was genuinely distressed with Skerret t leaving and I can see why.  Skerrett was the one constant in her life that she could count on after Lehzen left.  I don't see that she'd be distressed about Francatelli, though.  I doubt she even knew his name and replacing him is Penge's job.

Penge and the drum was hilarious.

2

The public fight was crazy.  Royals would simply not do that, and Albert locking the door was petty, but I liked how Victoria kicked it.  I guess we can fanwank that they were being private people at Osborne, not monarch and royal consort.  I was thinking Bertie had either an eye issue or dyslexia, but I have no idea if that is historically accurate.  Victoria knew the food rolling out of the royal kitchen was AWEsome. That's all she had to know about Francatelli.  If he left, no more scrumptious desserts.  

17 hours ago, Nolefan said:

I was a little shocked at the extent to which Victoria was so mean to Skerrett when she resigned. 

 

I wasn't.  She has shown a propensity for being snotty back in season one.

[Nolefan]

1 hour ago, taurusrose said:

The public fight was crazy.  Royals would simply not do that, and Albert locking the door was petty, but I liked how Victoria kicked it.  I guess we can fanwank that they were being private people at Osborne, not monarch and royal consort.

I actually think the public fighting, Victoria throwing a drink at Albert, and Albert locking doors and Victoria pounding on them is historically accurate. And this is the type of stuff that I am glad they include in the show, because it is a historical representation of what Victoria and Albert’s relationship was really like, a very ”unroyal” real love affair that was passionate on both extremes. Although it was petty, honestly I don’t blame him for locking her out. Victoria yelled at the dinner table about how Albert treated Bertie — saying something in regard to Albert not being able to see how hard Bertie is working to please him and all he gets is criticisms and rebukes — is how Victoria has treated Albert. I fell like the man has done everything physically, emotionally, and intellectually to please her, and all Victoria had done is backhandedly told him that it is not good enough. He gets rebuked for the political advice he gives her, he gets cut off and ignored when he is trying to tell him about the poor, she calls the house he created on Osborne for his family “your house,” as if she doesn’t like it, publicly chasitises him (calling him a bully) and throwing things at him in her assessment of how he wants to raise their children, then basically tells him that the love he has shown her is “not enough” to fillful her needs. Is Albert also sending subliminal and blatant messages to Victoria of her shortcomings as well, which Victoria alludes to in the bedroom scene in Osborne? HECK YES. But, Victoria isn’t some innocent victim her, either. I am looking forward to them resolving their issues. 

[Ilovepie]

Oh this show. I am no Victorian history buff, nor do I care enough to become one, but this show has become so over the top soap opera that I have to just assume it's a total fiction with a few historical details sprinkled in. I am over it. The only good thing this season is Palmerston. I hate the downstairs people completely, and I always have. At this point, it's just tedious and boring. Don't even get me started on the creepy sister. What stupidity. I think the only thing this episode that was completely accurate was Albert belittling Bertie about his schoolwork. When it's become me scrolling my ipad while I barely watch I think it's time to call it.

[Ohmo]

Quote

I fell like the man has done everything physically, emotionally, and intellectually to please her, and all Victoria had done is backhandedly told him that it is not good enough. He gets rebuked for the political advice he gives her, he gets cut off and ignored when he is trying to tell him about the poor, she calls the house he created on Osborne for his family “your house,” as if she doesn’t like it, publicly chasitises him (calling him a bully) and throwing things at him in her assessment of how he wants to raise their children, then basically tells him that the love he has shown her is “not enough” to fillful her needs. Is Albert also sending subliminal and blatant messages to Victoria of her shortcomings as well, which Victoria alludes to in the bedroom scene in Osborne? HECK YES. But, Victoria isn’t some innocent victim her, either. I am looking forward to them resolving their issues. 

This must be a mileage thing because I don't have this sense at all.  Victoria is a monarch, a female monarch in the 1800s in politically unstable Europe.  The whole thing with Osbourne House was politically ill-timed, and I don't know why Albert couldn't see that.  Hanging out at Osbourne House for weeks like Albert wanted would have been utterly tone deaf on Victoria's part.  Away from her people, in an opulent country estate with a recent (and very bloody revolution) having just taken place in France.  Victoria was correct.  She needed to be seen in London as being engaged in matters that affected her country. 

Lazing around at Osbourne House for weeks on end would have been a terrific way to get Victoria, Albert, and the kids all killed if the anti-monarchy sentiment had risen to the level that it did in France.  Also, the reality is, Victoria loves Albert, but he is not the priority.  Britain is the priority.  For Albert to truly give Victoria what she needs, he needs to show that he understands that concept more than he is demonstrating.

[Omeletsmom]

On 1/28/2019 at 12:12 PM, monakane said:

I've read a few books on the royal family and both Albert and Victoria were very hard on Bertie.  Victoria blamed Bertie for Albert's death from Typhoid fever.  Albert was visiting Bertie who was misbehaving in college when he fell ill.  I think Bertie was  a very damaged person because of his parents.  I would love for PBS to do a series on Bertie aka Edward VII.  He was quite the character.

They did, 40-some years ago. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072925/  IDK if it is available anywhere; I would love to see it again.

[Twopper]

13 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

I know there are certain things I should just accept about this show.  Victoria and Albert will always be prettier than the true historical figures were.  Victoria will be maternal and fair here, whereas she was cold and capricious in real life (though she showed some maternal warmth toward her grandchildren).  But ughhh, something really bugged me about the scene where she was pulled out of the ocean and Lord Palmerston just stood over her.  The real Queen would never permit that, and in real life, wouldn't he have been forced to wait at the residence until she returned?

Everything about the beach scenes bugged me, although I did find the "bathing machine" fascinating.  I didn't realize that it would be rolled into the sea so she could have steps into the water like in a modern pool    First of all, the warmest the water off the island gets is around 66 degrees which to me seems very cool for swimming.  (I did grow up swimming in the Gulf of Mexico which gets almost too warm, so there's that...)  and the discussion of breathing under water like a fish.  That was just dumb to me.  If people could do that, there would be a lot less people drowning.   Maybe there was some metaphorical meaning to that which I missed.    I, too, was stunned that Lord P just stood there.   Not that she was in danger of drowning but you would think he would help her up.  I would think she would be shivering a little.   

And yes I think blurring Joseph's (I think that is his name, my memory isn't what it used to be) butt was silly.  It was just a brief shot, but I thought his leaving his uniform that close to the water was not very bright, but I guess he was young and carefree.

I tend to compare Albert to Prince Philip as both having the difficult task of being married to the Queen, which I am sure must be very difficult.  Philip once said.  ‘I’m nothing but a bloody amoeba. I am the only man in the country not allowed to give his name to his children.’

I will say at one point during the series I was looking at the front of the palace and wondering why they didn't show the Queen Victoria memorial statue. Of course, I suddenly realized it was because she was still alive.    

[Zella]

27 minutes ago, Twopper said:

I tend to compare Albert to Prince Philip as both having the difficult task of being married to the Queen, which I am sure must be very difficult.  Philip once said.  ‘I’m nothing but a bloody amoeba. I am the only man in the country not allowed to give his name to his children.’

I do, too, and I honestly think that's one of the biggest problems I have with Victoria, the show--it's hard to not compare it to The Crown, and it's just not the same level of quality. Even when The Crown is not at its best, it's still just a better show, in my opinion. And I realize that's unfair since Victoria actually aired first. It's fun to watch (and snark on) and I like quite a few of the performers, so I don't mind watching it, but I feel like it's really uneven. It always has been, really, but this season, it's much more noticeable. 

Edited January 29, 2019 by Zella

[Ohmo]

2 hours ago, Twopper said:

I tend to compare Albert to Prince Philip as both having the difficult task of being married to the Queen, which I am sure must be very difficult.  Philip once said.  ‘I’m nothing but a bloody amoeba. I am the only man in the country not allowed to give his name to his children.’

That's why Edward VIII abdicated----because he wanted Wallis Simpson.  If the Crown cannot be the priority for someone, the alternative is to abdicate,  On a smaller scale (and not having to do with the monarch), Harry faced this issue years before Meagan.  According to a book I read, he and Chelsy Davie were deeply in love.  He wanted to marry her, but she could not accept the constraints and requirements that would come with marrying Harry.  He wasn't even going to be the monarch, and he knew he had a duty to the monarchy.  As we know, they did not marry.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Ohmo

[Nolefan]

2 hours ago, Ohmo said:

This must be a mileage thing because I don't have this sense at all.  Victoria is a monarch, a female monarch in the 1800s in politically unstable Europe.  The whole thing with Osbourne House was politically ill-timed, and I don't know why Albert couldn't see that.  Hanging out at Osbourne House for weeks like Albert wanted would have been utterly tone deaf on Victoria's part.  Away from her people, in an opulent country estate with a recent (and very bloody revolution) having just taken place in France.  Victoria was correct.  She needed to be seen in London as being engaged in matters that affected her country. 

Lazing around at Osbourne House for weeks on end would have been a terrific way to get Victoria, Albert, and the kids all killed if the anti-monarchy sentiment had risen to the level that it did in France.  Also, the reality is, Victoria loves Albert, but he is not the priority.  Britain is the priority.  For Albert to truly give Victoria what she needs, he needs to show that he understands that concept more than he is demonstrating.

Well, that is exactly what Victoria and Albert did in real life, re: lounged around Osborne House until the threat of revolution passed. And Victoria and Albert were credited with saving the monarchy primarily because of the loving, down to Earth family image they projected to the public, including scenes from Osborne House (where Victoria appeared as the dutiful wife and mother), not because she was portrayed as an independent woman reigning alone.

[Nolefan]

2 hours ago, Twopper said:

I tend to compare Albert to Prince Philip as both having the difficult task of being married to the Queen, which I am sure must be very difficult.  Philip once said.  ‘I’m nothing but a bloody amoeba. I am the only man in the country not allowed to give his name to his children.’

There is no comparison between the two men (Sorry Prince Philip!!) And unless Daisy decides to rewrite history, which is very possible, and somehow credits Victoria with everything, Albert should be coming into his own very soon.

[iMonrey]

Quote

 I hate the downstairs people completely, and I always have. 

I find them amusing in small doses. Mr. Penge is good for a chuckle now and then and so is Brodie. And I actually liked the story arc with Nancy working under false pretenses, and then ultimately having to confess to the Queen who she really was. My problem lies with the misguided romance between her and Francatelli. It was unnecessary and didn't really add anything to the show that we didn't already have with Victoria and Albert, or with Ernst and Harriet. They went a step too far in trying to emulate Dowton Abbey when it came to the Skerrett/Francatelli romance. The downstairs characters should remain relegated to job-related stories, like Lehzen was.

 

Quote

I tend to compare Albert to Prince Philip as both having the difficult task of being married to the Queen, which I am sure must be very difficult.

The main difference between Albert and Philip is that the former knew what he was getting into when he married because his wife was already Queen. (Philip did not expect his wife to be Queen for many years.) That's why I have a hard time finding sympathy for Albert whenever he pouts about his wife's behavior. She is the Queen of Great Britain, for Pete's sake. You pretty much have to tolerate her foibles as she is accustomed to having her own way.

Fun fact: I was watching Star Wars: The Force Awakens on TNT last night and caught sight of none other than her Serene Highness, Princess Feodora! The actress (Kate Fleetwood) had a fleeting appearance in that movie, but was onscreen just long enough for me to say "Hey! It's Feodora!" 

[Nolefan]

30 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

The main difference between Albert and Philip is that the former knew what he was getting into when he married because his wife was already Queen. (Philip did not expect his wife to be Queen for many years.) That's why I have a hard time finding sympathy for Albert whenever he pouts about his wife's behavior. She is the Queen of Great Britain, for Pete's sake. You pretty much have to tolerate her foibles as she is accustomed to having her own way.

I would actually argue the opposite. Albert was the first prince consort. He created the role, and I don’t think anyone knew for sure what that role would mean. Whereas, the thing that bothers me about Prince Phillip in  The Crown is that I am left scratching my head as to why he didn’t understand the role when he already had Albert as an example and the knowledge of Prince Albert faced in the role, so I have much less sympathy for Prince Phillip. And I think overall, Prince Albert does tolerate Victoria’s foibles and letting her have her way.

[j5cochran]

7 hours ago, Omeletsmom said:

They did, 40-some years ago. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072925/  IDK if it is available anywhere; I would love to see it again.

I just did a search, as I'd love to watch it as well.  Turns out it's on YouTube!

[Popples]

23 minutes ago, j5cochran said:

I just did a search, as I'd love to watch it as well.  Turns out it's on YouTube!

So did I. I just watched the first episode and feel so bad for Bertie who is barely a toddler at this point.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Popples

[Bunnyette]

On 2019-01-28 at 7:49 PM, dargosmydaddy said:

I spent both beach scenes wondering why he wore his uniform to the beach. I mean, dude, no duh your uniform is going to be a mess if you just fling it in the sand, not to mention he's going to be super conspicuous coming and going. Was there a reason he couldn't change once he got back to the house? Even if there was, he could have at least left the wig behind, no? That was just bizarre to me. 

That’s what Penge thought as he shook sand out of hunky footmans wig...

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 1/28/2019 at 2:28 PM, iMonrey said:

I really don't like what they're doing with Feodora. It's not only contrived but it's entirely fictional. What exactly is she hoping to achieve, anyway? How does playing Victoria and Albert against one another benefit her in any way? Does she think Albert with divorce Victoria and marry her? Does she think this makes one or both of them more reliant on her? It's just annoying.

She thinks this will make Victoria more reliant on her.   She wants to be firmly established in Victoria's retinue.  She certainly does not seem to miss her kids!

On 1/28/2019 at 4:21 PM, Nolefan said:

I was a little shocked at the extent to which Victoria was so mean to Skerrett when she resigned. Not even a “Congratulations” or “While I am devastated to lose you, I am glad you are happy.” Nothing to even acknowledge that Skerett was a person and not just her dresser. I thought is was really cold. 

I thought that after seeing Victoria's disappointment at her leaving, Skerrett would say "I really love him" and Victoria would understand.  Perhaps Victoria was upset that Skerrett lied to her face when asked if she knew about Francatelli leaving.

[Kohola3]

6 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I thought that after seeing Victoria's disappointment at her leaving, Skerrett would say "I really love him" and Victoria would understand. 

I don't think that type of conversation was allowed back then.  I know what we saw on Downton Abbey but this is the queen.  As it is, I think they have crossed the line more than once like bringing in the Chartist woman.

[benteen]

On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 5:12 PM, iMonrey said:

I find them amusing in small doses. Mr. Penge is good for a chuckle now and then and so is Brodie.

I did laugh at him yelling at Joseph "We go to church on Sunday, you bloody heathen!"

Edited January 31, 2019 by benteen

[nx74defiant]

Lover Penge drumming.

Well, poor Feodora is this season villain. Never mind that this story line is completely inaccurate historical. 

Victoria is turned into the mother Bertie wished he had, not the one he did.

[meira.hand]

On 1/28/2019 at 9:30 PM, Dirtybubble said:

The actor that plays Fracatelli is sooo HAWT

I looked him up and its Ferdinand Kingsley - Ben Kingsley's son !

[tennisgurl]

Mr. Penge is so freaking petty, its hilarious. "We go to church on Sunday, you bloody heathen!" 

Lord Palmeston is a fun character to have around, he is alternately so wormy, and also so charming. Its great to have another love to hate character around, and he was even kind of likable with the poor Duchess. Of course, anyone who throws even a single kind glance at the Duchess will earn some nice favor from me. Whats the over and under on the Duchess hooking up with the sexy footman sometime soon? I dont condone adultery, but the only reason I dont root for her to get her some is because if they were found out, things would get very bad for them, very quickly. Her husband is utter garbage, and she is WAY too good for him. 

Alfred's frustration at Bertie's education is certainly based off of real life, and while it makes me sad for little Bertie, who is sounds like has dyslexia and isnt very interested in his studies in general, I can see why Alfred is so annoyed by this, and why they are putting it here. I mean, that is how things went (Victoria also frequently despaired at his lack of interest in academia) and Alfred really does seem to think that this is the best way to prepare his son to become the king. But, Alfred is basically hoping to turn Bertie into a tiny little Alfred, as Alfred is a very learned man who greatly values reading and the classics and science and whatnot, while Bertie is an outgoing kid with lots of energy who just isnt into book. It makes sense for a time period where kids just did what their parents expected of them and that was that (there weren't a lot of books about adapting to your kids learning style back then), but it still sucks. Alfred was ahead of his time in many ways, but was also very much a man of his time in many other ways. 

Skerrit and Francotelli are leaving the show? Probably not, but I would be totally fine if they left right now. I did feel bad for Skerrit having to leave the job she loved, and even Victoria crying as she realized a person she has come to depend on is leaving. So much is changing so fast, and now someone who has been a consistent part of his life is leaving.

[Brattinella]

I looked up Feodora and found more pictures of her.  She actually can be an attractive woman!  As she is portrayed (make up) on this show, I get a physical recoil when she first appears on screen.  How did they make her look that way?

[Twopper]

30 minutes ago, Brattinella said:

I looked up Feodora and found more pictures of her.  She actually can be an attractive woman!  As she is portrayed (make up) on this show, I get a physical recoil when she first appears on screen.  How did they make her look that way?

A good make-up artist and hairstylist plus certain angle shots.   For some reason (or maybe no reason, just my weird thought process) Feodora reminds me of one of the singers I have seen in the role of Katisha in the "Mikado," and I keep expecting her to burst into song in a rich contralto voice.  

[smartymarty]

On 1/29/2019 at 1:29 PM, Twopper said:

which I am sure must be very difficult.  Philip once said.  ‘I’m nothing but a bloody amoeba. I am the only man in the country not allowed to give his name to his children.’

That's his issue? So he sympathized with all women everywhere that don't get to give their children their name? Poor man.

[dubbel zout]

Sucks to be a victim of the patriarchy, especially when you're part of it. Heh.

[seacliffsal]

I guess I thought differently about Joseph's swimming scene.  As soon as it started I immediately thought of Poldark and Pride and Prejudice (Colin Firth version) and wondered that PBS thought they needed a male swimming scene in their historical dramas.  It cheapened the whole scene for me (and I acknowledge that I'm in the minority in this).  I don't care for Joseph as a character and wished he had been immediately fired for this.  It feels like they are trying to modernize this story too much.  

I, too, find this season more boring than the previous ones.  

[screenaddict]

I keep thinking that Bertie is a miniature Ossie from Poldark. I obviously spend too much time watching British TV.

[Zella]

15 minutes ago, screenaddict said:

I keep thinking that Bertie is a miniature Ossie from Poldark. I obviously spend too much time watching British TV.

HAHAHAHAHA I won't ever unsee this now. 

I probably watch too much British tv too. . . .

[Brattinella]

That's awesome!  They look exactly alike!

[Nolefan]

12 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I guess I thought differently about Joseph's swimming scene.  As soon as it started I immediately thought of Poldark and Pride and Prejudice (Colin Firth version) and wondered that PBS thought they needed a male swimming scene in their historical dramas.  It cheapened the whole scene for me (and I acknowledge that I'm in the minority in this).  I don't care for Joseph as a character and wished he had been immediately fired for this.  It feels like they are trying to modernize this story too much.  

I, too, find this season more boring than the previous ones.  

I am right here with you regarding the swimming scene and Joseph in general. And Joseph is almost coming across as kind of like a stalker to me. It seems that he is always lurking around the Duchess — whenever she turns around he is there and he is always kinda glaring at her. But I guess this is this show’s idea of “romance” because Francatelli started out the same way.

[Nolefan]

In regard to Palmerston and Sophie...I was almost getting interested in that storyline, but then Palmerston backs off? Weird. It is almost like this show doesn’t want to show the men that were historically rakes (example, Ernest) being rakes with real characters in the show (outside of visits to nunneries) and the fallout from their rakish behavior, which I would find interesting. So, now are we supposed to view Palmerston as just misunderstood? Sophie still could of ended up in Joseph’s arms even after a dalliance with Palmerston. Seems like the show is missing some low hanging fruit here.

[dubbel zout]

47 minutes ago, Nolefan said:

the fallout from their rakish behavior

For the men? Not much, especially if they were of a certain class. The women, of course, suffered much more, since their jezebel siren songs were responsible for luring the poor innocent men to their carnal doom.

If everyone was fairly discreet about it, society just drew a veil and pretended nothing was going on.

[Ohmo]

On 1/30/2019 at 8:37 AM, Kohola3 said:

I don't think that type of conversation was allowed back then.  I know what we saw on Downton Abbey but this is the queen.  As it is, I think they have crossed the line more than once like bringing in the Chartist woman.

Agreed. Skerritt and Victoria were not even remotely peers.  When the Chartist woman came before Victoria, Skerritt was the one to say that the Chartist woman couldn't talk to the Queen like that.  To offer an explanation like "I love him" would have been too bold.  Skerritt was required to be restrained in her emotion, and Victoria also knew that she had to maintain the dignified air of the monarch.  I think they both knew of their fondness for the other, but class status being what it was at the time, neither could let their feelings truly show. In another life, they might have been friends, but not in this one.