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S12.E13: The Confirmation Polarization

Bort

By Bort
in The Big Bang Theory [V]

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Bort

Bort

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Sheldon and Amy's super asymmetry theory is proven by two physicists, Dr. Pemberton and Dr. Campbell from Chicago, who then try to kick Amy off the Nobel nomination. Also, Bernadette has a big success at work and Penny's going to be a part of it—whether she wants to be or not.

Airdate: Thursday, January 17, 2019

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

Definitely a set-up episode for what is essentially the last act.
Hmmm.
Is there a Chekhov's Gun somewhere about to go off? 

 

I really appreciate Sheldon sticking up for Amy even while Amy is willing to sacrifice for him 
The Gift of the Magi.
Steal from the best, 'cause there's "nothing new under the sun" (Solomon).

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Frost

Frost

I know the whole Nobel Prize thing is unrealistic, but on a scale from 1 to 100, how ridiculous is it that the super asymetry theory could be submitted for a Nobel in Physics within a year of it being published?  Doesn't something like that need to be tested out by multiple teams over years and years before it would be up for a Nobel?

I hope there's a knock down drag out fight with that other team.  I want them to unleash Bernadette on the Ferme (sp?) Lab.  Take no prisoners!

I wished Penny had pushed back on Bernadette going around her and talking to her boss. 

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chocolatine

chocolatine

(edited)

I don't even know if the Nobel selection process was depicted accurately (knowing this show, it probably wasn't), but fuck Dr. Samwise and Dr. Kumar! They figured from meeting Amy and Sheldon that Amy would protest the least out of the two, so they targeted her. Good thing that Sheldon and Siebert apparently learned their lesson and refused to throw her under the bus yet again.

I hope Penny isn't going to adopt Bernadette's "management" style. It may have been understandable when Bernadette was just starting out at the company and trying to establish itself, but now it's just off-putting.

ETA: 

1 minute ago, Frost said:

Ferme (sp?) Lab.

Fermilab; named after Enrico Fermi.

Edited by chocolatine
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Guest

Guest

(edited)
41 minutes ago, Frost said:

I know the whole Nobel Prize thing is unrealistic, but on a scale from 1 to 100, how ridiculous is it that the super asymetry theory could be submitted for a Nobel in Physics within a year of it being published?  Doesn't something like that need to be tested out by multiple teams over years and years before it would be up for a Nobel?

The timing might not be that unrealistic. The Higgs Boson was discovered in 2012 and the Nobel prize for it was awarded the next year. The deadline for nominations is the end of January so in theory this years prize would be possible. I’m not sure what the nomination process involves so next year might be more likely. 

Edited by Guest
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Mystery

Mystery

(edited)
On 1/17/2019 at 6:51 PM, ams1001 said:

I loved the blue top she had on with the black skirt.

I don't even look at her clothes too much anymore because they're so expensive (and most of them were, even in her Cheesecake Factory days), but Kaley's always featured on this site: https://wornontv.net/

Edited by Mystery
comma
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Traveller519

Traveller519

Well, it was better than the, re-assign Amy's scheduling episode from earlier in the season, but I still wasn't a fan of Amy being willing to give up her position for Sheldon. She's intelligent enough to know that she was a much larger contributor and would have fought tooth and nail for that. Or, at least Blossom would have.

I'm having a hard time adjusting to earnest Siefert too. I keep waiting for his other, exasperated, shoe to drop with respect to the two of them.

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SmithW6079

SmithW6079

I hate Bernadette so much generally, but she was firmly in "C" territory this episode. If she were a man, her bully tactics toward her staff and coworkers would have her the subject of complaints and reprimands from HR.

Are we supposed to find her mean and manipulative behavior funny because she's a petite woman with a shrill voice? Because I don't. And I hate that she goaded Penny into imitating her bad behavior.

There's a difference between being firm with your staff and being a bitch (or a dick). Penny was a bitch right off the bat. "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar" is a cliche for a reason.

I was also sorry to see Penny's complete surrender to being a corporate drone. I guess resistance really is futile.

The only thing I find mildly amusing about Bernadette is the off-the-cuff remarks about the drugs her company develops and their side effects.

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Guest

Guest

2 hours ago, LadyKenobi said:

I like that the other scientists made it about neuroscience vs physics rather than Let’s Cut Out the Woman, which is lazy outdated shit. This is much more interesting and realistic.

I feel the same way. Based on the promo I really thought it was going to go the other way. Realistically, if the tables were turned, Sheldon would have been making the same argument about cutting out the neuroscientist. He respects Amy but he still doesn’t respect her field. 

The whole thing is going to come down to the idea vs the execution which has been a debate between Sheldon and Leonard since the first season. 

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

1 hour ago, Mystery said:

I don't even look at her clothes too much anymore because they're so expensive (and most of them were even in her Cheesecake Factory days), but Kaley's always featured on this site: https://wornontv.net/

Why do I even click? So much for the butterfly top. $$$ 

 

1 hour ago, SmithW6079 said:

If she were a man, her bully tactics toward her staff and coworkers would have her the subject of complaints and reprimands from HR.

I have worked for a bully boss for 18+ years so you'd think I'd hate Bernadette in this episode, but I really appreciated that she wanted to make her coworkers succeed. What a novel idea for a bully boss to have. Seriously. And I liked the way she admitted what she was doing.

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Lili

Lili

(edited)

I liked it at the beginning when the other characters couldn't understand Sheldon. Classic.

I also agree with the person praised Penny's work outfit. It looks great.

Edited by Lili
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biakbiak

biakbiak

8 hours ago, LadyKenobi said:

I like that the other scientists made it about neuroscience vs physics rather than Let’s Cut Out the Woman, which is lazy outdated shit. This is much more interesting and realistic.

The problem is it’s not outdated and it’s actually the basis for cutting out women’s contributions forever (ie nitpicking on definitions to diminish contributions). Many men have won the Nobel Prize for categorizies they don’t have a degree in or wasn’t the main focus of work. 

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Angeleyes

Angeleyes

When I saw that Kal Penn was going to appear on this episode, I was hoping he’d have at least one interaction with Raj’s character. The actors are friends in real life and they often joke about being mistaken for each other. 

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Chit Chat

Chit Chat

9 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I hope Penny isn't going to adopt Bernadette's "management" style. It may have been understandable when Bernadette was just starting out at the company and trying to establish itself, but now it's just off-putting.

I agree.  Penny could've been just as effective by coming in with a confident attitude rather than looking like the bull in the china shop.  Bernadette is just downright rude to many of her coworkers, and I hate the way they portray her as a shrew sometimes.  

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Snow Apple

Snow Apple

On the other hand, I hope Amy gets a bit of her original moxy back and add a dash of Bernadette and gave the other team what for. Even if they have a better chance of winning by cutting her out, they shouldn't have discussed it behind her back.

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AnnaRose

AnnaRose

9 hours ago, LadyKenobi said:

The Venn diagram of assholes and actual misogynists is one circle. But the two Fermilab scientists are assholes, but not misogynists. They didn't really care about Amy or Sheldon. Their objection to Amy was that she was a neuroscientist and having Sheldon on board boosted their chances of winning the Nobel, but if they could win it easily without either one of them, they'd do that. If Amy were the physicist and Sheldon the neuroscientist, they'd try to dump him; if Sheldon were gay and his partner were another man who was a neuroscientist, they'd advocate for dropping him too.

And I liked that Amy saw that and didn't immediately go to the "CLEARLY this because I have OVARIES" well. She is secure in herself, her abilities, and her contribution to the work. I miss Original Zero Emotion Amy, but that was a good moment. And Sheldon does not see her as "his wife" or "inferior non-physicist"; he respects her and her work as a scientist. 

Fermilab scientists aren't Team DudeBros. They're Team Fermilab Scientists. I'm sure the writers will find a way so that both Amy and Sheldon will get the Nobel.

I totally agree.  The Fermilab scientists just wanted to strengthen their chances of winning a Nobel phyics prize, that they probably really don't deserve, by submitting it as the discovery of three physicists and including the physicist from the team competing against them.  I hate when people interpret everything through a sexism or racism lens, even when those things are not involved at all.  

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rmontro

rmontro

14 hours ago, Zoe said:

I always love Penny's work outfits

Let's face it, Penny looks good in anything.

12 hours ago, kariyaki said:

I was amused at the guys’ attempts to talk about tv shows, only for them to be behind on their catchup— I say with a dvr backlog of my own...

The effects of binge watching on chatting around the water cooler.

14 hours ago, chocolatine said:

fuck Dr. Samwise and Dr. Kumar!

I gave you a like just for that comment alone.  You might also have said Dr. Rudy, but I'll prefer a good Tolkien reference any day of the week.

It doesn't seem right that these two should accidentally fall into a Nobel Prize, over Sheldon and Amy's intentional work.  Good that Sheldon didn't sell Amy down the river for the shot at the Nobel Prize, shows some growth.  I'm thinking Season Three Sheldon probably would have done it without hesitation.  Good also that the University head is supporting them.

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DrSpaceman73

DrSpaceman73

6 hours ago, Angeleyes said:

When I saw that Kal Penn was going to appear on this episode, I was hoping he’d have at least one interaction with Raj’s character. The actors are friends in real life and they often joke about being mistaken for each other. 

Seriously?  They look and sound nothing alike

One of the better actual stories they have done though, and all pretty realistic.  Even the accidental confirmation when the two scientists didn't even realize what they were doing........it happens. 

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wendyg

wendyg

Dani: the reason the Higgs Boson prize was awarded so quickly was that the winning scientist had predicted it long - I think decades - before, and the discovery confirmed the ground-breaking importance of his work. So I agree that the timing is ridiculous. Looks to me like the show is shaping up to give every character something to go home with at the end: Sheldon gets his recognition, and then we can end with Raj's Indian wedding.

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proserpina65

proserpina65

17 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Seriously?  They look and sound nothing alike

One of the better actual stories they have done though, and all pretty realistic.  Even the accidental confirmation when the two scientists didn't even realize what they were doing........it happens. 

But they're famous guys of Indian ethnicity, so a lot of people have apparently confused the two.

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PinkRibbons

PinkRibbons

Mayim has such a way about her that she can take what is usually a farcical show and suddenly make it feel very real. I felt like I was watching a different show when she told Sheldon to drop her, especially because she made some really stupid material sound genuine. I really hope she gets a lot of work after this show is over.

On another note, I was a little surprised that despite the situation having nothing to do with gender politics, no one seemed to realize that it would look that way and make for a massive PR nightmare. In the past decade we've gotten a long list of women whose scientific achievements were stolen from them (especially when the Nobel was involved). The idea that in 2019 a female scientist's contribution would be buried would break the internet. The scandal would be absolutely enormous.

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HurricaneVal

HurricaneVal

See, I thought Penny's sudden aggressive and stern turn when instructing her sales team during that meeting came from her channeling the inner mean-girl cheerleader she was in high school.  It was just something in her delivery and the "OK...break!" (paraphrase) way she ended the meeting that made me think that.  I think as soon as she found herself in charge of something, she reverted to who she was the last time she was in charge of something--which harks all the way back to high school when she was queen bee of the cheerleading squad.

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libgirl2

libgirl2

15 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I don't even know if the Nobel selection process was depicted accurately (knowing this show, it probably wasn't), but fuck Dr. Samwise and Dr. Kumar! They figured from meeting Amy and Sheldon that Amy would protest the least out of the two, so they targeted her. Good thing that Sheldon and Siebert apparently learned their lesson and refused to throw her under the bus yet again.

I hope Penny isn't going to adopt Bernadette's "management" style. It may have been understandable when Bernadette was just starting out at the company and trying to establish itself, but now it's just off-putting.

ETA: 

Fermilab; named after Enrico Fermi.

I live near the Fermilab! 

Overall kind of a dull episode. I did like seeing Dr. Samwise and Dr. Kumar

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Guest

Guest

(edited)
1 hour ago, wendyg said:

Dani: the reason the Higgs Boson prize was awarded so quickly was that the winning scientist had predicted it long - I think decades - before, and the discovery confirmed the ground-breaking importance of his work. So I agree that the timing is ridiculous. Looks to me like the show is shaping up to give every character something to go home with at the end: Sheldon gets his recognition, and then we can end with Raj's Indian wedding.

True. It is probably more accurate to say that given the unrealistic circumstances set up on the show (extremely ground breaking theory immediately proven) a quickly awarded Nobel is not completely unprecedented. 

1 hour ago, PinkRibbons said:

 

On another note, I was a little surprised that despite the situation having nothing to do with gender politics, no one seemed to realize that it would look that way and make for a massive PR nightmare. In the past decade we've gotten a long list of women whose scientific achievements were stolen from them (especially when the Nobel was involved). The idea that in 2019 a female scientist's contribution would be buried would break the internet. The scandal would be absolutely enormous.

Very true. I like the idea of this being the reason Seibert agreed with Sheldon so quickly. I could see Caltech using Amy’s involvement to improve their chances. 

Edited by Guest
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Katy M

Katy M

8 hours ago, biakbiak said:

The problem is it’s not outdated and it’s actually the basis for cutting out women’s contributions forever (ie nitpicking on definitions to diminish contributions). Many men have won the Nobel Prize for categorizies they don’t have a degree in or wasn’t the main focus of work. 

And if it weren't for the fact (show fact or real fact I don't know), that more than 3 people can't share a prize, Amy would have been included.  

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ams1001

ams1001

(edited)
21 hours ago, Mystery said:

I don't even look at her clothes too much anymore because they're so expensive (and most of them were even in her Cheesecake Factory days), but Kaley's always featured on this site: https://wornontv.net/

Oh, yeah, I have no illusions that I could actually afford anything she wears. (That site says that shirt is $325 at Neiman Marcus. I might be able to justify that for something like a good coat that will be worn all winter and last me several years but definitely not one top. My biggest splurge was a $250 bag I was eying for a while, which I got on sale for $175 and paid for with gift money that I had stashed away until I decided what to spend it on. But it's basic black leather and I use it every day.)

Edited to add: speaking of coats, the long coat she was wearing was about $600.

Edited by ams1001
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Scott

Scott

(edited)

I've noticed the pizza boxes before, but it was pretty clearly displayed in this episode as they were walking in:  the gang evidently gets their pizza from Barone's.  They must really like it, as that's a bit of a drive from Pasadena...but it does explain why they don't get delivery.

Edited by Scott
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Angeleyes

Angeleyes

On 1/18/2019 at 11:58 AM, proserpina65 said:

But they're famous guys of Indian ethnicity, so a lot of people have apparently confused the two.

Kunal explains it further here. 

 

IIRC, the guys even did a bit about it at an award show where they presented together and explained that they were not the same person. 

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DrSpaceman73

DrSpaceman73

The unrealistic part of the Nobel is this would be very fast for it to happen

Most take a decade or more before they finally win a Nobel over any discovery, though I am sure there are exceptions.

And for good reason.  You don't want the Nobel committee looking stupid for quick decisions or reports that don't stand up the test of time.  The guy who invented the frontal lobotomy won a Nobel Prize, probably the biggest mistake in their history

https://www.livescience.com/16391-top-5-nobel-prize-goof-ups.html

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Guest

Guest

2 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

The unrealistic part of the Nobel is this would be very fast for it to happen

Most take a decade or more before they finally win a Nobel over any discovery, though I am sure there are exceptions.

And for good reason.  You don't want the Nobel committee looking stupid for quick decisions or reports that don't stand up the test of time.  The guy who invented the frontal lobotomy won a Nobel Prize, probably the biggest mistake in their history

https://www.livescience.com/16391-top-5-nobel-prize-goof-ups.html

I’m really wondering how they are going to handle this. Winning is not really realistic but getting someone to agree to nominate them could be since there are hundreds of people nominated each year. Even if they win this year it would involve a time jump because the winner isn’t announced until October. 

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

On 1/18/2019 at 5:20 AM, Angeleyes said:

When I saw that Kal Penn was going to appear on this episode, I was hoping he’d have at least one interaction with Raj’s character. The actors are friends in real life and they often joke about being mistaken for each other. 

1 hour ago, Angeleyes said:

Kunal explains it further here. 
https://youtu.be/6SyC3nbESFU

Kunal is being a "good sport" about it, but "cross-race effect" contributes to POC being sentenced for crimes they didn't commit on the basis of eye-witnesses of different (typically white) races.
But if Kunal expressed annoyance or outrage about being misidentified, it likely wouldn't help him win fans or influence casting directors. 
I suppose Kunal's take on it might offend some other POC, but it's his choice.

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chocolatine

chocolatine

20 hours ago, craziness said:

I really liked the t-shirt that Sheldon wore near the end of the show, while talking to Pres. Seibert.  It had a lightning bolt (scar) with various Harry Potter symbols inside.  I want it!!!!

I only noticed in this episode that Sheldon has the Fibonacci t-shirt in multiple colors. I remember seeing it in red before, and in this episode he wore one in purple. Google image search shows that he also has it in yellow and brown.

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Kunal is being a "good sport" about it, but "cross-race effect" contributes to POC being sentenced for crimes they didn't commit on the basis of eye-witnesses of different (typically white) races.
But if Kunal expressed annoyance or outrage about being misidentified, it likely wouldn't help him win fans or influence casting directors. 
I suppose Kunal's take on it might offend some other POC, but it's his choice.

I think Kunal is handling it in the best possible way, treating it like a joke while still drawing attention to the fact that not every Indian/Pakistani male character on TV is played by the same person.

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Guest

Guest

51 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

 

I think Kunal is handling it in the best possible way, treating it like a joke while still drawing attention to the fact that not every Indian/Pakistani male character on TV is played by the same person.

Last year there was a funny twitter exchange between Kunal, Kal Penn and Kumail Nanjiani on the topic. I’m impressed that they can handle it in a humorous way. https://studentedge.org/article/kumail-nanjiani-kunal-nayyar-and-kal-penn-keep-getting-mistaken-for-one-another

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wendyg

wendyg

Reminds me of the scene in MAD MEN where Shirley and Phyllis have a conversation where they call each other by the wrong name. But that was set in 1969; you'd hope we'd gotten beyond that! Nanjiani, Nayyar, and Penn look and sound nothing alike!

The lesser ability to distinguish faces from other races is a real thing, though, and as has been noted, is an issue in police eyewitness testimony, lineup identification, and immigration. It applies as much to non-white people trying to identify white faces as the reverse.

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trudysmom

trudysmom

On 1/18/2019 at 11:25 AM, rmontro said:

You might also have said Dr. Rudy, but I'll prefer a good Tolkien reference any day of the week.

 

On 1/18/2019 at 1:07 PM, kariyaki said:

Dr. Samwise? Pfft, Dr. Goonies!

When I saw him I yelled "Hey, It's Bob!"  Love Sean Astin. 

So glad I'm not the only one tired of Bernadette.  I kept thinking back to those episodes when Penny actually stood up to her and Amy, the one where she had them rewrite her college paper to get her a B-, then said next time let's go for an A.  That scene was strong Penny, not rolling over for Bernadette.  I get that Bernie is in a position to make her job hard for her, but still, Penny let her steamroll her.  I hope she knocks the project out of the park. 

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