The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[Kel Varnsen]

6 hours ago, Raja said:

I came to the conclusion that Wakanda does not have any combat experience from Infinity War. Every move seems like it was developed for ritual trial by individual  combat 

The whole civil war style battle with Killmonger was certainly combat. Even the rhinos got in on that. Plus even if they are mostly training based, it must be pretty awesome training what with how Nakia and Okoye handled things during that car chase with Klaue.

[GHScorpiosRule]

On the heels of watching the awesome Avengers: Endgame, I spent the weekend watching all the Captain America/Thor and Avenger movies up to Infinity War. And now I want to have Endgame handy so I can watch it again!

But here's the thing I noticed. In Infinity, Thanos turns back time to take the stone that was in Vision's head--so he saw Wanda, spoke with her, fought with her (she was using one hand to ward him off, while trying to destroy the stone in Vision's head) and disappeared her. Yet in Endgame, he's like "I don't even know who you are." Thanos doesn't strike me as stupid. I would think he would remember fighting the woman who made it difficult to get to Vision, and then had to use the Time stone to go back and kill Vision.

And speaking only for myself, I kind of dug the look of Thanos when we first saw him in a post credit scene. I can't recall which movie, because I marathoned through them all over the weekend. He was more...velvety and purple looking. By the time we got a speaking Thanos with Brolin (because that clearly was someone else the second time we saw him), his color was more...dull.

Though unpopular, I still hold my breath, my fingers over my mouth in shock when Loki is dispatched. Especially after his redemption of sorts (flexible, I know) in Ragnorak.

[Anduin]

5 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

But here's the thing I noticed. In Infinity, Thanos turns back time to take the stone that was in Vision's head--so he saw Wanda, spoke with her, fought with her (she was using one hand to ward him off, while trying to destroy the stone in Vision's head) and disappeared her. Yet in Endgame, he's like "I don't even know who you are." Thanos doesn't strike me as stupid. I would think he would remember fighting the woman who made it difficult to get to Vision, and then had to use the Time stone to go back and kill Vision.

Thanos died early on. Thor cut off his head. The Thanos later seen travelled forward in time. He hadn't encountered Wanda at that point in his personal timeline.

[Danny Franks]

7 hours ago, Anduin said:

Thanos died early on. Thor cut off his head. The Thanos later seen travelled forward in time. He hadn't encountered Wanda at that point in his personal timeline.

And the amusing thing (if you think of it that way) is that Wanda would have thought Thanos was being a "the day Bison graced your village..." dickhead about it, which probably made her even angrier. But this Thanos had no clue who she was, or what his future self had done. So it came as a real shock to him when she started peeling his armour off like it was paper.

All of the undusted would have believed they were fighting the same enemy, except perhaps Doctor Strange. But this earlier Thanos did seem angrier and more personally affronted than Infinity War Thanos.

[Anduin]

4 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

All of the undusted would have believed they were fighting the same enemy, except perhaps Doctor Strange. But this earlier Thanos did seem angrier and more personally affronted than Infinity War Thanos.

He learned that he'd achieved his life goal, and a bunch of idiots had undone it. He clearly wasn't thinking right to start with, that pushed him over the edge.

[Dandesun]

49 minutes ago, Anduin said:

He learned that he'd achieved his life goal, and a bunch of idiots had undone it. He clearly wasn't thinking right to start with, that pushed him over the edge.

Yeah, he fancied himself the savior of the universe with his cull half of everything idea. He imagined himself the brave messiah who would do all of this for the Greater Good and, as it turns out, the universe wasn't grateful.

In fact, they continued to rebel. So he got ticked off and decided to kill everyone and everything.

You know... because he wasn't really in it for the Greater Good at all.

[Anduin]

19 minutes ago, Dandesun said:

Yeah, he fancied himself the savior of the universe with his cull half of everything idea. He imagined himself the brave messiah who would do all of this for the Greater Good and, as it turns out, the universe wasn't grateful.

In fact, they continued to rebel. So he got ticked off and decided to kill everyone and everything.

You know... because he wasn't really in it for the Greater Good at all.

Between Infinity War Thanos and Killmonger, maybe Marvel have resolved their villain problem? Make them extremists. They almost have a point, but they're way too crazy to side with. Or maybe just give the villains a little more screen time.

[Jeebus Cripes]

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

And the amusing thing (if you think of it that way) is that Wanda would have thought Thanos was being a "the day Bison graced your village..." dickhead about it, which probably made her even angrier. But this Thanos had no clue who she was, or what his future self had done. So it came as a real shock to him when she started peeling his armour off like it was paper.

All of the undusted would have believed they were fighting the same enemy, except perhaps Doctor Strange. But this earlier Thanos did seem angrier and more personally affronted than Infinity War Thanos.

I love you for quoting the terrible, yet entertaining as hell Street Fighter film. 

[Starfish35]

Apparently Sharon Carter hasn’t totally been forgotten.

Kari Skogland To Direct 6-Part ‘The Falcon And The Winter Soldier’ Miniseries With Anthony Mackie, Sebastian Stan, Daniel Bruhl & Emily Van Camp

[calliope1975]

3 hours ago, Jeebus Cripes said:

I love you for quoting the terrible, yet entertaining as hell Street Fighter film. 

Excuse you, the iconic, terrible, yet entertaining as hell Street Fighter film. RIP Raul Julia. 

2 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Apparently Sharon Carter hasn’t totally been forgotten.

Kari Skogland To Direct 6-Part ‘The Falcon And The Winter Soldier’ Miniseries With Anthony Mackie, Sebastian Stan, Daniel Bruhl & Emily Van Camp

Daniel Bruhl? I was already in for Disney's streaming service, and TPTB aren't making me regret this decision. 

[Danny Franks]

4 hours ago, Jeebus Cripes said:

I love you for quoting the terrible, yet entertaining as hell Street Fighter film. 

Any opportunity I get.... Which isn't many, to be honest,

3 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Apparently Sharon Carter hasn’t totally been forgotten.

Kari Skogland To Direct 6-Part ‘The Falcon And The Winter Soldier’ Miniseries With Anthony Mackie, Sebastian Stan, Daniel Bruhl & Emily Van Camp

Hmm. Interesting. Zemo is back, and Sharon Carter for some reason. She played a big part in Bucky's comic book story, but only tangentially to Bucky himself.

I really hope this is a down and dirty, 70s-style spy thriller. No big, CGI-filled splash scenes, keep the superpowered antics to a minimum. And six hours should finally be enough time for Bucky to actually be allowed a personality that isn't 'troubled and confused'.

[ICantDoThatDave]

On 5/18/2019 at 10:38 PM, Fukui San said:

If they can do better than Galactus being a pile of space bees than it'll be an improvement from previous versions.

Seriously, it's not that hard. He's huge, he eats planets, he barely notices you're there. Even the likes of Thor. He has a conscripted minion who alone can hold off a dozen superheroes. Thanos wants to kill half the universe. With Galactus it's nothing personal.

Have we had the Watcher in the MCU yet? The Watcher may be a good way to explain Galactus.

Just make Galactus a Celestial. The existing films have laid the groundwork for how powerful they are plus you don't even have to explain why he's giant dude in purple armor.

[Dandesun]

But the real question is... will they cover Galactus in an overwhelming amount of pink?

[VCRTracking]

[Kel Varnsen]

On 5/20/2019 at 8:25 PM, Starfish35 said:

Apparently Sharon Carter hasn’t totally been forgotten.

Kari Skogland To Direct 6-Part ‘The Falcon And The Winter Soldier’ Miniseries With Anthony Mackie, Sebastian Stan, Daniel Bruhl & Emily Van Camp

The only really forgotten person in the MCU is Betty Ross.

[Starfish35]

3 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The only really forgotten person in the MCU is Betty Ross.

Isn’t that the truth. 

[Jeebus Cripes]

53 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The only really forgotten person in the MCU is Betty Ross.

I always found this odd and still do. 

[Kel Varnsen]

8 minutes ago, Jeebus Cripes said:

I always found this odd and still do. 

Me too especially since I don't think it is Terrance Howard situation where she is asking for more money. Plus it is not like she is a featured extra or a situation where they cast a nobody; it's Liv Tyler.

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Me too especially since I don't think it is Terrance Howard situation where she is asking for more money. Plus it is not like she is a featured extra or a situation where they cast a nobody; it's Liv Tyler.

It's also not like they couldn't recast her if they wanted, or if Liv Tyler wasn't available. They already recast Bruce. I suppose they reasoned that, as long as Bruce is just a featured player in other movies, they don't need to give him a supporting cast.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Danny Franks

[tennisgurl]

Maybe they dont use Betty because it might call back to the Ed Norton Bruce, and they just dont want people to think about him, and they have taken the Mark Ruffalo Hulk in so many different directions? But they already dragged General Ross back onscreen, so...yeah I have no clue. Its not like his romance with Natasha lit up screens so much that we all demanded the interloper be kept off screen! 

[Bruinsfan]

And not the good General Ross, either. If you need Ross for ongoing appearances, why not back a truck of money up to Sam Elliot's house and make the character something other than a two-dimensional ranty antagonist?

[Raja]

3 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

And not the good General Ross, either. If you need Ross for ongoing appearances, why not back a truck of money up to Sam Elliot's house and make the character something other than a two-dimensional ranty antagonist?

Ang Lee's Hulk film is not considered in continuity by the MCU heads. Bringing him back and recasting to do it would be like retaining say J.K Simmons for Spider-Man or any other FOX X-Men actor in the same role, except Ryan Reynolds, whose Deadpool breaks continuity by design,, and then saying it is not connected in any way

[Danny Franks]

10 minutes ago, Raja said:

Ang Lee's Hulk film is not considered in continuity by the MCU heads. Bringing him back and recasting to do it would be like retaining say J.K Simmons for Spider-Man or any other FOX X-Men actor in the same role, except Ryan Reynolds, whose Deadpool breaks continuity by design,, and then saying it is not connected in any way

Which they should totally do. No one else can play J. Jonah Jameson like J.K. Simmons.

I barely remember Ang Lee's Hulk (a haze of hulk dogs and electric dads), but doesn't it end with him seemingly going to South America? So the Norton one is something of a soft reboot that doesn't contradict the first movie.

[Dee]

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Me too especially since I don't think it is Terrance Howard situation where she is asking for more money. Plus it is not like she is a featured extra or a situation where they cast a nobody; it's Liv Tyler.

Terrence wasn't asking for more money, just the money he was contractually owed, provided the original film became a hit.

[VCRTracking]

[starri]

What I keep wondering about with the timeline issue is something the Ancient One said.  If the Stones are needed to help defend reality, whether or not Steve's returning them meant that they remained in the original timeline and didn't end up skewing off, 2023 is still left without any.  

The Time and Mind Stones were the only ones that were actually being used, but if their mere existence keeps extradimensional threats at bay, what happens now?  I mean, the power of the Sorcerer Supreme didn't entirely come from the Eye, but will Strange be any less powerful now that he won't have it?

[benteen]

14 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

And not the good General Ross, either. If you need Ross for ongoing appearances, why not back a truck of money up to Sam Elliot's house and make the character something other than a two-dimensional ranty antagonist?

So much this.  Elliot's Ross was awesome.  He was a hardass and unfair to Bruce but still brought more to the table than Hurt's Ross.  Plus he just LOOKED the role too.

[Matt K]

27 minutes ago, starri said:

What I keep wondering about with the timeline issue is something the Ancient One said.  If the Stones are needed to help defend reality, whether or not Steve's returning them meant that they remained in the original timeline and didn't end up skewing off, 2023 is still left without any.  

The Time and Mind Stones were the only ones that were actually being used, but if their mere existence keeps extradimensional threats at bay, what happens now?  I mean, the power of the Sorcerer Supreme didn't entirely come from the Eye, but will Strange be any less powerful now that he won't have it?

My understanding was that the Ancient One needed the time stone so that Strange could defeat Dormamu.  That said it's likely Thanos didn't obliterate them.  Most likely it'll just take a long time for them to reform but they still exist in the universe.

[Raja]

24 minutes ago, starri said:

What I keep wondering about with the timeline issue is something the Ancient One said.  If the Stones are needed to help defend reality, whether or not Steve's returning them meant that they remained in the original timeline and didn't end up skewing off, 2023 is still left without any.  

The Time and Mind Stones were the only ones that were actually being used, but if their mere existence keeps extradimensional threats at bay, what happens now?  I mean, the power of the Sorcerer Supreme didn't entirely come from the Eye, but will Strange be any less powerful now that he won't have it?

In every timeline in which the Avengers won the stones still exist. They were only missing from the moment that they were stolen until the moment later when Captain Rogers returned them. However in the main MCU the stones have that 5 years gap without protection or a Sorcerer Supreme and whatever happened already is loose in the MCU. 

[starri]

5 minutes ago, Raja said:

In every timeline in which the Avengers won the stones still exist.

But they don't exist in the 2023 of the MCU Prime timeline.  Original Recipe Thanos destroyed that set, which is why they had to be retrieved from and then returned to, the past.

[Raja]

4 minutes ago, starri said:

But they don't exist in the 2023 of the MCU Prime timeline.  Original Recipe Thanos destroyed that set, which is why they had to be retrieved from and then returned to, the past.

It was the prime, the Avengers mission to the past created a new prime for us to follow. Presumably Tony Stark erased Thanos and his army from 2014 from history in his newly created timeline. Whatever got loose from 2018 when Strange was dusted until 2023 is just out there.

[starri]

1 minute ago, Raja said:

Presumably Tony Stark erased Thanos and his army from 2014 from history in his newly created timeline.

But wouldn't the removal of Thanos from 2014 just create an alternate version from that point forward in that timeline?

Because if that had happened in the Prime MCU, the Snap wouldn't have happened in the first place, which would have reset everything.

[Raja]

The argument that I am making is that the MCU, post Endgame is a different line than the MCU post Infinity War. Thanos has snapped away the stones but a time traveler from a different timeline put them back in place for his reality's Dr. Strange 

[Bruinsfan]

2 hours ago, starri said:

What I keep wondering about with the timeline issue is something the Ancient One said.  If the Stones are needed to help defend reality, whether or not Steve's returning them meant that they remained in the original timeline and didn't end up skewing off, 2023 is still left without any.  

The Time and Mind Stones were the only ones that were actually being used, but if their mere existence keeps extradimensional threats at bay, what happens now?  I mean, the power of the Sorcerer Supreme didn't entirely come from the Eye, but will Strange be any less powerful now that he won't have it?

I'd think Strange is a good deal less powerful, but then he held his own against Thanos (who had possession of four stones at the time) for a good bit without the Time Stone. That plus all the assorted other superheroes who've now networked may be enough to defend the earth moving forward.

[starri]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

The argument that I am making is that the MCU, post Endgame is a different line than the MCU post Infinity War. Thanos has snapped away the stones but a time traveler from a different timeline put them back in place for his reality's Dr. Strange 

How would that work if 2018 Thanos would still have to gather the stones?  Steve put them back at the moment they were taken, which were all before the Snap and Thanos' subsequent destruction of them.

[Matt K]

3 hours ago, Raja said:

The argument that I am making is that the MCU, post Endgame is a different line than the MCU post Infinity War. Thanos has snapped away the stones but a time traveler from a different timeline put them back in place for his reality's Dr. Strange 

That doesn't really make any sense though. 

I feel like the best way to think about the "time travel" is that instead they were traveling to alternate realities that happened to resemble their past.  Or another way of thinking is the mere act of traveling to the past creates a new alternate dimension since the movie made it clear that one cannot change the past.  As such one cannot actually travel to one's own past.  So instead they are alternate dimensions (either already existing or created by the act of time travel) like in Spiderverse.  I'm obviously ignoring any implications of Old Cap at the end.  Also obviously the time stone is an exception since it's the embodiment of time.  

[starri]

1 hour ago, Matt K said:

I feel like the best way to think about the "time travel" is that instead they were traveling to alternate realities that happened to resemble their past.  Or another way of thinking is the mere act of traveling to the past creates a new alternate dimension since the movie made it clear that one cannot change the past.  As such one cannot actually travel to one's own past. 

That's usually how time travel has been used in actual Marvel Comics.  Best example is the Days of Future Past story.  Kitty Pryde going back in time didn't change her present, but she did prevent it from becoming 616's future.

[Jeebus Cripes]

2 hours ago, Matt K said:

That doesn't really make any sense though. 

I feel like the best way to think about the "time travel" is that instead they were traveling to alternate realities that happened to resemble their past.  Or another way of thinking is the mere act of traveling to the past creates a new alternate dimension since the movie made it clear that one cannot change the past.  As such one cannot actually travel to one's own past.  So instead they are alternate dimensions (either already existing or created by the act of time travel) like in Spiderverse.  I'm obviously ignoring any implications of Old Cap at the end.  Also obviously the time stone is an exception since it's the embodiment of time.  

Indeed. Now, if only you had been sitting in the room with the writers and directors when they created this mess. 😉

[festivus]

2 hours ago, Matt K said:

That doesn't really make any sense though. 

I feel like the best way to think about the "time travel" is that instead they were traveling to alternate realities that happened to resemble their past.  Or another way of thinking is the mere act of traveling to the past creates a new alternate dimension since the movie made it clear that one cannot change the past.  As such one cannot actually travel to one's own past.  So instead they are alternate dimensions (either already existing or created by the act of time travel) like in Spiderverse.  I'm obviously ignoring any implications of Old Cap at the end.  Also obviously the time stone is an exception since it's the embodiment of time.  

So when they went back to get the stones, those were alternate realities? So Cap putting them back right away shouldn't affect anything in those realities? I don't know why I'm even asking cause the shit hurts my head. Wait, but Loki escapes with the Tesseract and I don't even know anymore I give up.

<insert gif of bawling baby here>

Edited May 23, 2019 by festivus

[Perfect Xero]

49 minutes ago, festivus said:

So when they went back to get the stones, those were alternate realities? So Cap putting them back right away shouldn't affect anything in those realities? I don't know why I'm even asking cause the shit hurts my head.

<insert gif of bawling baby here>

It was their past, taking the stone would have created a branch timeline, but the Ancient One/Hulk say that they can return the stone to right after the moment it was taken to avoid a new timeline without the Stone ever forming.

The problem is that they wanted to have things both ways. So they end up with a time travel theory that is actually a weird mix of Alternate Universe rules and Predetermination/Time Loop.

Basically every problem with time travel in the film comes from wanting to be able to send Steve back to live out his life with Peggy and ending up sitting on that bench as an old man. If they'd just stuck with Alternate Universe theory everything would work much better.

IMO based on the primary alternate universe theory they were using, the time travel rules should have been:

1. Traveling back in time creates a single alternate timeline. It doesn't matter how much you change or don't change, traveling back in time creates a single alternate branch from the point the time traveler(s) landed. Killing Thanos as a baby changes nothing, no worrying that changing something in the past is going to impact the prime timeline.

2. There is a window shortly after the initial incursion where the new timeline is not yet set and the GPS allows returning to the newly created branch timeline WITHOUT creating another new branch. This is the fix for the Dark Dimension problem, where creating a timeline without the Time Stone kills everyone in the new timeline in order to fix their own.

Steve would then be able to take advantage of these two rules to clean up the new timelines, return the stones/Hammer, use the mind stone to make all those 2012 Hydra agents forget that Steve knows about Hydra, and possibly hunt down Loki to return him and the Cube in 2012.

[stealinghome]

And just think--having a short amount of time before you can return would allow Steve to go back to the 1940s, get his dance with Peggy, and then come back!

[scriggle]

1 hour ago, Perfect Xero said:

The problem is that they wanted to have things both ways. So they end up with a time travel theory that is actually a weird mix of Alternate Universe rules and Predetermination/Time Loop.

And then there's M&M out there giving interview saying they're not experts in time travel.

What the fuck? They wrote it. They decided what the rules were. If anyone should be an expert on the time travel in AE, it's them. They're killing themselves trying to justify Steve's ending and instead all they're doing is making themselves look like hacks.

Honestly I have a hard time believing the writers who were responsible for Cap1 & Cap2 where they showed they had a good handle on Steve's character are the same writers responsible for the assassination of Steve's character in AE. It's almost like the endings for each of the main three (Tony, Thor, and Steve) were handed down from on high and they had to do whatever they could to get to those endings whether is it made sense for the character's overall arc or not.

[AimingforYoko]

19 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Uh, please. Thanos with the Infinity Stones, sure. Otherwise, nah.

[benteen]

13 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Uh, please. Thanos with the Infinity Stones, sure. Otherwise, nah.

Thanos was beating the crap out of Cap, Thor, Iron Man and Captain Marvel without the Infinity Stones.  He did need a Stone to get past Carol though, I'll grant you that.

Edited May 24, 2019 by benteen

[Bruinsfan]

It looked to me as if Carol was winning until he pried the Power Stone loose to use against her. Her non-reaction to that headbutt was one of the film's highlights to me.

[calliope1975]

And Thanos had to order an airstrike to stop Wanda. 

[Raja]

1 hour ago, calliope1975 said:

And Thanos had to order an airstrike to stop Wanda. 

More than just an air strike. He ordered it on himself and his army. You only do that If he was sure that the Scarlet Witch was going to kill him and he had no idea how to stop her without risking his own death 

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

More than just an air strike. He ordered it on himself and his army. You only do that If he was sure that the Scarlet Witch was going to kill him and he had no idea how to stop her without risking his own death 

I was surprised he didn't order the airstrike on some populated area, to distract the Avengers. Like when the guns were repositioned to shoot at Carol.I thought that is what they werr doing. Like bomb New York City or something to get a bunch of them to go there.

[Bruinsfan]

That was my first thought as well, I thought they were aiming at NYC. I was really surprised that Thanos' lackeys would redirect fire he'd ordered without direct permission from him.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 5/9/2019 at 5:42 PM, Apprentice79 said:

Carol Danvers has already engendered a stupid backlash from the trolls, making her queer would just make them lose their minds even more.

But wait, there's more!

https://www.screengeek.net/2019/05/07/captain-marvel-brie-larson-replacement-petition/?fbclid=IwAR32eG6UR1DdAeZBLwn73gWYAgNqevmNvrfoIdPfff0F_r904mB0XduskHU

If I was a worse person than I actually am, it'd be hilarious. As it is, it's just pissing me off, because now the other trolls are getting into it.