S05.E01: Year Zero

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Jim Gordon and Bruce Wayne face the chaos Gotham City has become. Their mission to keep the city safe becomes more complicated as the villains who survived the attack on the city begin to resurface and claim various territories. Meanwhile, Selina Kyle grapples with how to deal with her uncertain future.

Promo:

 

Clips:

 

Original air date: 1/3/19

[Joe Hellandback]

What's interesting is that to judge by the trailers they've 'upgraded' Selina (Ivy? Hugo Strange? Dr Bashir?). I don't think that's ever happened before, Catwoman was always purely human if a very skilled one.

 Also a nice touch if 'Bane' was actually an old army buddy of Jim's as it seems to suggest.  

[SimoneS]

Why did they have to kill Tabitha? And how is Barbara such a bad shot that she missed Oswald?

I can't get over how tall and grown up David Mazouz is now.

[Chaos Theory]

Not a bad first episode.    Thoughts.

1.  When I first saw the new map Gotham when Jim was looking at it was a little annoyed because his hand was in the way then later we got a better view of it.  Kinda.  Its interesting how each group has cut their own corner of Gotham.

2.  Poor Tabitha.  I guess since the show is over it will be getting rid of characters more frequently and this is a good way to toss Barbara into the frey gangbusters.  Because and angry Barbara is a sexy Barbara.

3.  Don't care about Bruce and Selina.  Sorry just don't.  Listening to someone you just met about "A Witch" in Gotham to save a loved one is just asking for trouble.

4.  We've seen Ed Nygma but no sign of Lee Thompkins.  I am feeling gipped.  I want me some Lee Thompkins.

5.  I think Jim might actually be almost interesting in a lawless Gotham.  Except he needs to learn to shoot to kill. 

[Lantern7]

I found out the season premiere was tonight around 7:35. I'm sad this is the final season. Minimum, it'll keep us sated until Legends of Tomorrow comes back. In the meantime, we can speculate on stuff . . . like when somebody will kill Edward the Bulldog and eat him. Hey, there probably aren't any cows in Gotham City, and this is Gotham, where everything goes to shit. It happens in the most awesome way, though.

Did Tabitha have a near-death experience in the past? I thought the rule was you can die once and come back. Basic Spider-Man/Family Guy "Everyone gets one" rules. I don't think her death was needed. Seriously, Barbara was over-the-top as it was, especially with the hair. Now she's sans her bestie, she probably forgot about Selina, and the only company she has are the Dark Amazon crew of lady warriors. That ain't gonna end well.

Did anyone see the chopper and not think it was going to get blown up? Couldn't Bruce set up a remote-control system? Nope, some poor schlub dies, and four factions fight for the cargo. Also, it appears that minor factions like the Low Boyz are operating under The Warriors rules, in terms of outfit themes. That makes this season more watchable. Do you wish to bet we'll have some variation of Baseball Furies?

I missed Oswald. He's OTT, but he's oddly easy to sympathize with. I don't know about his right hand guy, though. I would have though he would have swam to the mainland. He must love eating (figurative) shit all day every day. And now Oswald has a Bulldog! Who's probably going to end up as food!

Everyone else was on point . . . Jim, Bruce, Alfred, Harvey, and a Riddler that is cracking up. @Chaos Theory reminded me that Leslie is still out there. Goodness knows what she's doing in No Man's Land.

ETA: Rewatching the copter scene. Totally forgot Oswald's crew has at least one crew with his portrait on it. I live on Staten Island, and I haven't taken the train to the ferry in a while. Outside one stop, you can see a garage of vehicles from the show. I should go there soon. Am I sad for thinking that?

Edited January 5, 2019 by Lantern7

[Chaos Theory]

2 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Everyone else was on point . . . Jim, Bruce, Alfred, Harvey, and a Riddler that is cracking up. @Chaos Theory reminded me that Leslie is still out there. Goodness knows what she's doing in No Man's Land.

What if Ed and Lee are literally the same person now.   What if Hugo Strange turned them into the same person.  Normally I would say that is stupid and impossible but this is Gotham.  What if when Ed blacks out he is becoming Lee Thompkins and whatever she becomes when she wakes up?

[jbscotchman]

Great first episode! Sad to see Tabitha and Butch both gone now though.  

[Danielg342]

R.I.P. Tabitha...and, I guess she's really dead because Barbara mourned her.

Oh, and is that crazy woman that tried to contact Jim Harley Quinn? I sure got those vibes.

Plus whatever The Riddler was going through was fun, owing to Cory Michael-Smith's deranged performance.

I do believe, overall, this episode meandered and took way too long to get to the point. That said, Ben McKenzie's performance as the resolute Gordon really gave this episode some urgency, and the crazy shootout scene with the GCPD and Penguin really helped set the tone for what we're going to see.

So, while I wouldn't call this a winner, I'd say it at least starts things on the right foot.

Harvey was mostly a background player for this episode, but he still had quite a few moments to shine. There was some great zingers ("Department of Douchebaggery") and Donal Logue put some life into Bullock, but he was most poignant when he told Jim that he should have shot Penguin to kill him. Yeah, I know..."plot armour" and all...but it's sometimes good to remember how some characters have it.

[thuganomics85]

Gotham is back for one final ride!

I have no idea if they've done a variation of this story in the comics, but, again, this is reminding me of that Arkham Knight game, where Gotham is quarantine, and sections are more or less divided and controlled by the villains.  Other than Jim and the GCPD, everything else is either under the thumb of Oswald, Barbara, Scarecrow, and I believe they said Freeze and Firefly have their sections as well.  Plus, maybe some of the smaller gangs?  Doesn't sound like Jeremiah has one, but I'm guessing he's going to be all about causing random chaos for everyone.

Not surprised there would be at least one big death, and it looks like it is Tabitha after she let her need to revenge get the better of her.  I'm glad at least someone pointed out that she was the one that killed Oswald's mother first, so while he's no saint by any means, it's not like she was innocent with their whole feud.  But now she's dead and Babs is mad as hell.  Curious to see where this goes, but while this show has played loose with the canon rules, I really don't see them killing Oswald, but maybe she'll find some way to get a form of revenge.

Nygma seems to be losing his mind, and thinks "Ed" is behind it, but I'm wondering if it will involve whatever went down with Hugo Strange in the season finale.  And where is Lee?

Selina's now paralyzed and a guilt-ridden Bruce is totally going to sought out this "Witch" to help out.  Yeah, that's not going to end well!

I saw Jaime Murray's name in the credits, but I didn't spot her, so I guess she was that mysterious voice over the radio?

The flash-forward that has Jim, Bullock, Oswald, and Nygma all together taking on a threat is certainly an interesting tease!

Whelp, lets see how they wrap this up!

[opus]

7 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

 

 

I have no idea if they've done a variation of this story in the comics,

 

Definitely. It was major year long crossover in the late ‘90s

[Lantern7]

27 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

I have no idea if they've done a variation of this story in the comics . . .

Yeah . . . most of the line of Batman books focused on "No Man's Land" back in 1999, when the idea of the end of the world (re: Y2K) wasn't farfetched. The main stories have been collected in trade paperbacks.

[Philbert]

Well, my beloved insane, crazy over the top "Gotham" is back for one final run and I have to say it got off to a very solid start. Sad to see Tabitha go but I suppose we really were at the end of her arc after Butch's death at the end of S4. I have to say, I really like Jim far more this season than I have in a while. I think he's finally gotten over a lot of the angst that kept him from being an enjoyable character now that he's in pure survival mode. Despite his (many) character flaws, he's a natural leader and he really shined in that showdown with Penguin and his men.

Ahh, Oswald, you self satisfied, smug, arrogant little walking fleshbag of neuroses. Fascinatingly over the top as usual. You have been missed. Barbara, well I've never minded her that much (except for that really dull, self-pitying stretch in mid season one) and she was decent enough tonight. Of course Tabby's death has sent her (further) over the edge but that could be a lot of fun for the rest of the season. Riddler is well...Riddler. I'm interested in seeing who's going to win that little battle for control-him...or Ed.

Not bad at all. 7/10

[Kostgard]

Random thoughts:

When is Oswald going to realize he should never make a deal with Jim Gordon? Jim dicks him over every. Single. Time. Just don’t bother trying.

Happy trails, Tabby. I hope Barbara’s revenge scheme wraps up quickly, because...come on. This show is never killing off Oswald. Give her something else to do rather than something she’s guaranteed to fail. 

Why is Mr Penn back working with Oswald? Does he just love getting abuse and eating shit all day? Is this another fetish like the baby thing? (ETA: Jinx, Lantern7! We had the same thought!)

That is one seriously cute bulldog.

Poor Selina. Bruce, I know you want to help and you feel responsible. But check out a few Disney movies first - making a deal with a mysterious witch never goes well.

The person Ed should be mad at is whomever gave him that haircut.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Kostgard

[mertensia]

Gotham City sure has sucky Congressional and State Reps.

How tall is David Mazouz now? Because he is tall.

Barbara looks like Amanda Tapping now.

This was beautifully filmed.

[scarletine]

9 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Not a bad first episode.    Thoughts.

1.  When I first saw the new map Gotham when Jim was looking at it was a little annoyed because his hand was in the way then later we got a better view of it.  Kinda.  Its interesting how each group has cut their own corner of Gotham.

2.  Poor Tabitha.  I guess since the show is over it will be getting rid of characters more frequently and this is a good way to toss Barbara into the frey gangbusters.  Because and angry Barbara is a sexy Barbara.

3.  Don't care about Bruce and Selina.  Sorry just don't.  Listening to someone you just met about "A Witch" in Gotham to save a loved one is just asking for trouble.

4.  We've seen Ed Nygma but no sign of Lee Thompkins.  I am feeling gipped.  I want me some Lee Thompkins.

5.  I think Jim might actually be almost interesting in a lawless Gotham.  Except he needs to learn to shoot to kill. 

On points 3. and 4. I have a feeling that "The Witch" might just be Lee. She is a doctor, and the last we saw of her she was in Dr. Strange's hands,  Who knows what he's done with her? Either that, or I thought it sounded like her voice on that radio call that Jim got, letting him know he had allies on the mainland. Either way, I have a feeling she'll be making an appearance soon. 

[Sakura12]

I figured being the last season they'd start killing people off, didn't expect it in the first episode. RIP Tabitha. 

Was that Harley Quinn that drew the Joker face on the map? 

Going to someone called the Witch doesn't sound like a good idea, Bruce. But I did like seeing the beginnings of Batman being a ghost in the dark and standing on rafters. 

I'm interested in what kind of messed fun Strange did with Lee and Ed. 

I'm glad this crazy show is back, it'll help get through the wait for the other crazy show Legends of Tomorrow. 

[darkestboy]

Great premiere episode, they're really going for it with the No Man's Land arc and it's pretty interesting to see the city unfold into chaos as a result.

Tabitha's death was rushed but with the limited amount of episodes, it makes sense to bring that saga to a close. Barbara is going to fail in her revenge arc, so the show needs to give her something else to do.

Oswald eating well, serving "overcooked" meat to his adorable dog while his workers are starving. And he wonders why people turn on him so often. Come on, Ozzie, get a clue, man.

Edward's storyline is interesting enough but where did Leslie go. What did Hugo do to the both of them?

I'm assuming the witch is Ivy given that we've seen her in the trailer and she's healed Selina in the past. The Bruce and Selina scenes were a bit tough to watch.

Jaime Murray's unseen character - friend or foe for Gordon? Oh and hi, Ecco. Good to see you're still alive. 

Overall, a pretty great opening episode, 8/10

[Enigma X]

I enjoyed it but very sad to see Tabitha go. I really liked her. Yeah, we know Penguin will not be killed but I am in the minority and find him annoying as all get out and really want him to get his comeuppance. 

[Kostgard]

I just realized the episode title on this thread is incorrect. I believe this episode was called "Year Zero" and next week's episode is called "Trespassers."

 

3 hours ago, darkestboy said:

Oswald eating well, serving "overcooked" meat to his adorable dog while his workers are starving. And he wonders why people turn on him so often. Come on, Ozzie, get a clue, man.

That does seem to be the one lesson he refuses to learn. That and "never trust Jim Gordon." If he could get those two lessons down he'd save himself a lot of pain.

 

3 hours ago, darkestboy said:

Jaime Murray's unseen character - friend or foe for Gordon? 

I've got my money on foe. Jim has a bad habit of bringing people into town to help him who end up doing the opposite.

[Proteus]

I was so happy when Butch died because I wanted to see Tabitha free of him & raisng hell with Barbara who she really belonged with. So of course the first thing they do is kill off Tabitha. It's not like the show ever cared about or wrote for Jessica Lucas in the first place. The one thing I could always depend on Gotham for is disappointment.

All & all, the same old, same old. A lot of mayhem and characters trying to kill each other with little to no character development or plot.

Only watching now to savor every last second of Erin Richards.

[superloislane]

Scarecrow: "You have so few bullets, do you want to waste one on me?" Jim: Puts away gun and uses a metal pipe - Next scene - Bullock: Aimlessly shoots multiple bullets at running thieves...

So excited because Bruce now knows the power of darkness to knock your foe off balance - that's pretty damn important for future Batman. I also really like the idea of him secretly and mysteriously helping the good guys in the background but Jim sort of knowing about it anyway.

"Jeremiah shot me to get to you" - oh good another big heap of guilt to go on Bruce's shoulders but at the same time, poor Selina.

I'm guessing Alfred and Selina really were going to be evacuated originally because Alfred and Bruce had an emotional goodbye in the season 4 finale and that doesn't make sense if they're still there in the season 5 premiere, but the shortened season made them cut that story short.

Woah did they actually kill Tabitha? I'm quite surprised at that! I feel this is another one of those shortened stories due to the cancellation because it seemed like the Penguin/Tabitha hatred would last for a while. If only they had killed off Lee - I've been done with her for a while.

Thank you Jim! Someone finally got a bullet in Penguin!

It's kind of sad that even though they made a big deal of the Sirens last season, neither Tabitha or Barbara seemed to care at all that Selina was paralysed.

I still don't really understand the reason why they're all trapped in the city. In the Dark Knight Rises it was because of the threat of a nuclear bomb but in Gotham, there is no threat. I'm sure someone could come in to help but then again I guess there wouldn't be a No Man's Land story! I still can't believe this is the last run of episodes.

[tv echo]

This is cool...

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Tabitha showed up at the helicopter site, I thought oh crap, this is the final season so I guess the bloodbath is going to begin! And sadly, I knew that Oswald wouldn't be the one to die in this fight because we already saw him in the flash forward with Jim doing the slow motion walk at the very beginning of the episode. RIP Tabitha. Please don't kill off all the hot women (and I say this is a straight woman).

Sometimes it's the little things on the show that totally crack me up, like the fact that Oswald has HIS FACE painted on the side of his vans. How can I not love a detail like that? I know he's being an ass by hoarding 1000 steaks for himself while the rest of Gotham starves, but at least his dog is eating well.

When Jim shot Oswald in the leg, I just laughed at how he has become Harry Potter throwing minor spells at people to disarm them instead of actually trying to take anyone down.

When Jim was trying to get anyone on the mainland to help Gotham and the governor refused, it sadly made me think of Puerto Rico.

[WritinMan]

Pretty good start to the final season. Looks to be all sorts of bat-shit crazy. Pun intended.

Too bad they didn't kill Barbara instead of Tabitha. Tabitha is so much more interesting.

[tennisgurl]

Oh Gotham, I missed you and your super Extra self. So now Gotham has gone to its logical extreme and has become totally lawless, with the city drawn up and controlled by various villains, the GCPD, plus some random smaller gangs causing shit in the in between areas. Sounds like its gonna be an awesome ride until we get to the end of the series! And, of course, everyone has taken their ham levels up to 21, when they were previously only on 11!

Poor Selena, and poor Bruce. Because thats just what Bruce needed, even more of a guilt complex. I suspect that The Witch might be Lee, as we haven't seen her yet, but who knows with this show? It could be Lees previously unknown twin sister who speaks only in Limericks and demands Bruce's first born child to get Selena's legs back in working order. 

I love how even in the midst of this no mans land chaos, everyone is still dressed to the nines and wearing their favorite Gotham gear. Gotham gonna Gotham and all that. 

RIP Tabby. It sucks that she got killed, or that she couldn't get her revenge, but at least she went down swinging. And this close to the end, with so many characters and dangling plot threads, I can see why they want to start getting rid of characters that dont HAVE to be alive for the future batman mythos. And now it gets Barbara into the fray as well, and gives her a good reason to be pissed as hell and wear her angry eye liner!

This is really the kind of environment that Jim shines in. He has MANY issues as a person, but he is a natural leader, and is the kind of person people turn to in times of crisis to have a plan and get shit done. Of course, like Harvey said, he might need to start shooting to kill by the end of this mess.  

So the flashforward seems to show several factions all teaming up to fight some invading force. Bane? Jeremiah? Metropolis? 

Edited January 5, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Last Time Lord]

Oh, my beautiful, beautiful, insane show is back, and I could not be happier!

Holy crap, this episode just flew by! I needed to leave the room, so I paused Hulu after Tabathia got stabbed (R.I.P. Tabby) and was shocked by how little time was left. 

I am loving this whole Dystopian Wasteland movie thing going 

[AAEBoiler]

Ok, who was the blonde woman with the mask towards the end of the episode?

[nilyank]

1 minute ago, AAEBoiler said:

Ok, who was the blonde woman with the mask towards the end of the episode?

Harley Quinn?

Oh Bruce is going to look for a witch and somehow I know it is going to drive him and Selina further apart. They break my heart. Every time.

[superloislane]

4 minutes ago, AAEBoiler said:

Ok, who was the blonde woman with the mask towards the end of the episode?

Ecco - she was with Jeremiah last season. My guess is she'll be Harley Quinn

[HoodlumSheep]

Finally got to see the premiere!

• The opening scene was great
• Babs' hair style...i do not like.
• Tabs :( i wonder if she'll stay dead or be revived. Loved how she cared about butch til the end, though. Those two were so sweet together. Sadly Tabs hasn't really had a proper storyline for what feels like ages, so i'd rather she stay dead unless they give something better to do.
• I thought bruce had something better than just a regular ol' chopper planned. The way he made it sound i was expecting some high-tech stealth chopper or something that would avoid being blown to bits
• I feel bad about selina's situation but i'm so tired of the neverending circle that is selina and bruce's relationship. One day they're friends, the next day selina's blaming bruce for something and telling him to leave her alone (it's almost always selina who breaks off the friendship too from what i've noticed), then the next day they're friends again and i'm just tired of how often they do this. It feels like every other episode. It's just too much. 
• The witch??? Hmmmm they haven't shown lee yet so maybe?????
• The group across the river has me intrigued. Are they friends or enemies? 

Good to have gotham back! I've missed seeing the cast on my screen. I've missed Harvey, especially.

Edited January 6, 2019 by HoodlumSheep

[BkWurm1]

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I thought bruce had something better than just a regular ol' chopper planned. The way he made it sound i was expecting some high-tech stealth chopper or something that would avoid being blown to bits

Yeah, i was hoping he had something special planned, a distraction at the very least but when we saw it was just a regular chopper, I new it wasn't going to make it.  Still, I was screaming at the thing when it flew PAST them on the roof.  If they'd just landed where the people that want the supplies are waiting they'd all have been happy.  They didn't need to go any farther. 

Quote

I feel bad about selina's situation but i'm so tired of the neverending circle that is selina and bruce's relationship. One day they're friends, the next day selina's blaming bruce for something and telling him to leave her alone (it's almost always selina who breaks off the friendship too from what i've noticed), then the next day they're friends again and i'm just tired of how often they do this. It feels like every other episode. It's just too much.

I get this feeling but I think they hit on a scenario where Selina's reaction feels realistic.  Selina is clever and she knows it but her agility has been more of what defined her.  How long has it been?  Six weeks?  She's lain there with little to do other than let all the worst thoughts creep in.  And she's right.  She didn't get shot for anything she did other than care for Bruce.  She knew being on her own kept her safe. 

Breaking her own rules took her legs.  Took her freedom and independence.  It's not IMO that she thinks it's his fault, but that it's her fault for doing what she knew she shouldn't.  And the only solution would be once she gets her legs back, is to not repeat her same mistake.  It hurts they would put distance between them again but at least it's not  a petty reason.   

[jhlipton]

I too knew the chopper was toast as soon as I saw it flying in the canyon of buildings.  Just plain dumb!

Freeze and Firefly both have their own territories, but fight each other because Fire and Ice have to be enemies!

On 1/3/2019 at 8:11 PM, thuganomics85 said:

The flash-forward that has Jim, Bullock, Oswald, and Nygma all together taking on a threat is certainly an interesting tease!

The irony of Jim shooting at what looked like Army men folloowed (preceded?) by his begging for help did not escape me.

On 1/4/2019 at 8:04 PM, superloislane said:

Scarecrow: "You have so few bullets, do you want to waste one on me?"

Me: [BLAM!] "I don't consider it a waste! "  Once again, the "I will not kill" credo shows how dumb it it.

[jay741982]

On 1/5/2019 at 12:37 PM, WritinMan said:

Pretty good start to the final season. Looks to be all sorts of bat-shit crazy. Pun intended.

Too bad they didn't kill Barbara instead of Tabitha. Tabitha is so much more interesting.

Really I cant see how Tabitha was so much more interesting. Maybe she shouldn't have killed Oswalds mother. Shouldn't have came at Oswald like she did. Jessica Lucas is Hawt but Tabitha was Bleh 

On 1/5/2019 at 3:30 PM, tennisgurl said:

Oh Gotham, I missed you and your super Extra self. So now Gotham has gone to its logical extreme and has become totally lawless, with the city drawn up and controlled by various villains, the GCPD, plus some random smaller gangs causing shit in the in between areas. Sounds like its gonna be an awesome ride until we get to the end of the series! And, of course, everyone has taken their ham levels up to 21, when they were previously only on 11!

Poor Selena, and poor Bruce. Because thats just what Bruce needed, even more of a guilt complex. I suspect that The Witch might be Lee, as we haven't seen her yet, but who knows with this show? It could be Lees previously unknown twin sister who speaks only in Limericks and demands Bruce's first born child to get Selena's legs back in working order. 

I love how even in the midst of this no mans land chaos, everyone is still dressed to the nines and wearing their favorite Gotham gear. Gotham gonna Gotham and all that. 

RIP Tabby. It sucks that she got killed, or that she couldn't get her revenge, but at least she went down swinging. And this close to the end, with so many characters and dangling plot threads, I can see why they want to start getting rid of characters that dont HAVE to be alive for the future batman mythos. And now it gets Barbara into the fray as well, and gives her a good reason to be pissed as hell and wear her angry eye liner!

This is really the kind of environment that Jim shines in. He has MANY issues as a person, but he is a natural leader, and is the kind of person people turn to in times of crisis to have a plan and get shit done. Of course, like Harvey said, he might need to start shooting to kill by the end of this mess.  

So the flashforward seems to show several factions all teaming up to fight some invading force. Bane? Jeremiah? Metropolis? 

My guess is Bane and Maybe Jeremiah?

[jay741982]

On 1/5/2019 at 7:25 PM, icemiser69 said:

I will cut Barbara some slack.  Most cop shows and even Rick on TWD couldn't shoot for shit.  That said, I liked Tabitha, I really wanted her to stick around.

I really didn't need to see the flash forward.  That basically gives away the list of characters that don't get bumped off before then.

I wonder who shot down the helicopter?

So Bruce is looking for a witch to repair the damage to Selina so she can walk again.

Well to be fair We all know they arent gonna Kill Gordon, Riddler, Penguin and Harvey as well as Bruce Alfred and Selina. Barbara will probably live to get Pregnant with Barbara Jr and maybe even Jim Jr. Lee might be fair game but like said by another poster please dont kill off All the Hot women lol

[jhlipton]

How the hell was Penguin (never a model of strength) able to overpower the extremely strong Tabitha?  Don't tell me; I know. PLOTTTTTTT!!!

Edited January 9, 2019 by jhlipton

[Camera One]

I was excited for this final season but I found this episode fairly weak.  It felt disjointed.  The Selena and Ed parts didn't fit in with the rest.  Some of the dialogue or delivery (eg. Bruce and Jim on the roof at night) were weirdly stilted.  

I thought Selena and Alfred evacuated... what happened to that?  I was confused that Bruce was there too.  It needed to be more clearly explained if they changed their mind.

I too thought Bruce's airdrop would happen at the dead of night in a stealth operation.  Instead, everyone went headfirst for the downed helicopter leading to that overly dramatic showdown.  Obviously, Penguin, Jim and Barbara were going to survive so all that pointless shooting was boring as usual.  It was clear Tabitha wouldn't last the season since she isn't canon, but I thought they save her death for bigger impact later.  This ending for her felt anti-climatic.

Bruce stealing the bullets for Jim and Harvey was fun, though.  

Edited January 11, 2019 by Camera One

[Sakura12]

11 hours ago, Camera One said:

I was excited for this final season but I found this episode fairly weak.  It felt disjointed.  The Selena and Ed parts didn't fit in with the rest.  Some of the dialogue or delivery (eg. Bruce and Jim on the roof at night) were weirdly stilted.  

I thought Selena and Alfred evacuated... what happened to that?  I was confused that Bruce was there too.  It needed to be more clearly explained if they changed their mind.

They were told that this would be their final season after they filmed their finale and given a shortened episode count. So that probably made them change some things. They needed Selina and Alfred to be around so I can just go with they didn't make it out in time.

Tabby's death was also probably due to the shortened season. They couldn't waste too much time on it. 

[jhlipton]

13 hours ago, Camera One said:

Instead, everyone went headfirst for the downed elevator leading to that overly dramatic showdown. 

it was a bit problematic that, on a show that's been cited for its lack of diversity, a group of Hispanics were killed by a group of whites without even getting a shot off (that I recall).  Like "Low Boys" (or whatever) wouldn't be expecting every other gang in town to make a beeline to the chopper.

[jay741982]

I had someone bring this to my attention but Barbara being all Enraged about Tabitha's Death is funny and Yet Disturbing considering Tabitha basically killed her end of season 3. 

[paigow]

[Interior: GCPD radio room of exposition]

Gordon: ....The West Side is controlled by 2 gangs...The Jets and The Sharks...They use a strange form of dance fighting and are above average singers...Harvey & Officer Krupke have been assigned to negotiate a truce with gang leaders Rif & Bernardo so refugees can pass through unharmed....

Edited January 11, 2019 by paigow

[Lantern7]

Before I forget . . . on the map, there was an area marked with "Zsasz." Please tell me he's got his own faction.

On 1/4/2019 at 12:40 AM, Kostgard said:

Why is Mr Penn back working with Oswald? Does he just love getting abuse and eating shit all day? Is this another fetish like the baby thing? (ETA: Jinx, Lantern7! We had the same thought!)

That is one seriously cute bulldog.

Figurative shit! I meant figurative shit!!! And what Bulldog isn't cute in its own way?

Edited January 11, 2019 by Lantern7

[Snookums]

Ahhh, Gotham. There you are.

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Gotham City sure has sucky Congressional and State Reps.

I assume it's in the same state as Riverdale in that crazed nutjob criminals can seal off the city/town and nobody seems to care one bit. (And apparently said government is what, actively shooting at any boats or swimmers that try to cross the river? What the hell?) Unfortunately, there are far too many examples in both history and modern day life that support the idea of a "no go zone" that civil authorities won't touch to make this as farfetched as it should be.

Gotham gonna Gotham in that even as people are starving to death, there is apparently some kind of enormous Pier One/Target/Torrid/Estee Lauder in town where everyone gets endless supplies of candles, home furnishings, thousand dollar leather outfits and high end cosmetics, because these desperate crazy people are lookin' good. Starving, sure, but in fantastic outfits! Stabbed to death but I died with FLAWLESS eye makeup! 

(Although they are apparently running low on hair product because Babs's hair in that 'do you hear a helicopter' scene has some bad flyaways, and Lucious's 'do is running pretty wild too. On the other hand, Harvey looks exactly the same as usual and both Jim and Bruce have the same short hair as always. I guess Alfred's handy with a scissors.)

Man, poor Tabby. Not only did she have to get stabbed but didn't even get to wield her whip before she died! I guess she left it with Selina whom none of the Sirens asked after or mentioned at all. 

Poor Selina. Not the best week for her. Odds on The Witch are pretty even between Ivy and Lee, but I'm leaning towards Ivy because she seems more the type. I like the theory that Lee and Ed are sharing a body; Hugo Strange and his hobbies.

Jim only made a handful of terrible decisions this week, like going alone into the basement! Good, Jim! Keep working on that.

[Dobian]

The premise for this season is just too dark and apocalyptic for me, even by Gotham standards.  And sort of ridiculous.  If New York City was sealed off by criminals they would be sending in the military to take them out, what with little things like Wall Street and the U.N. there and all.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 2:02 AM, SimoneS said:

Why did they have to kill Tabitha? And how is Barbara such a bad shot that she missed Oswald?

I can't get over how tall and grown up David Mazouz is now.

Too true, in a series not lacking beautiful women she was still standout gorgeous. 

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 2:13 AM, Chaos Theory said:

Not a bad first episode.    Thoughts.

1.  When I first saw the new map Gotham when Jim was looking at it was a little annoyed because his hand was in the way then later we got a better view of it.  Kinda.  Its interesting how each group has cut their own corner of Gotham.

2.  Poor Tabitha.  I guess since the show is over it will be getting rid of characters more frequently and this is a good way to toss Barbara into the frey gangbusters.  Because and angry Barbara is a sexy Barbara.

3.  Don't care about Bruce and Selina.  Sorry just don't.  Listening to someone you just met about "A Witch" in Gotham to save a loved one is just asking for trouble.

4.  We've seen Ed Nygma but no sign of Lee Thompkins.  I am feeling gipped.  I want me some Lee Thompkins.

5.  I think Jim might actually be almost interesting in a lawless Gotham.  Except he needs to learn to shoot to kill. 

Maybe Lee is 'the witch'? I thought that about Jim but the whole idea of the GCPD is that they do believe in the rule of law, otherwise they're just one more gang, 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Joe Hellandback

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 2:15 AM, Lantern7 said:

I found out the season premiere was tonight around 7:35. I'm sad this is the final season. Minimum, it'll keep us sated until Legends of Tomorrow comes back. In the meantime, we can speculate on stuff . . . like when somebody will kill Edward the Bulldog and eat him. Hey, there probably aren't any cows in Gotham City, and this is Gotham, where everything goes to shit. It happens in the most awesome way, though.

Did Tabitha have a near-death experience in the past? I thought the rule was you can die once and come back. Basic Spider-Man/Family Guy "Everyone gets one" rules. I don't think her death was needed. Seriously, Barbara was over-the-top as it was, especially with the hair. Now she's sans her bestie, she probably forgot about Selina, and the only company she has are the Dark Amazon crew of lady warriors. That ain't gonna end well.

Did anyone see the chopper and not think it was going to get blown up? Couldn't Bruce set up a remote-control system? Nope, some poor schlub dies, and four factions fight for the cargo. Also, it appears that minor factions like the Low Boyz are operating under The Warriors rules, in terms of outfit themes. That makes this season more watchable. Do you wish to bet we'll have some variation of Baseball Furies?

I missed Oswald. He's OTT, but he's oddly easy to sympathize with. I don't know about his right hand guy, though. I would have though he would have swam to the mainland. He must love eating (figurative) shit all day every day. And now Oswald has a Bulldog! Who's probably going to end up as food!

Everyone else was on point . . . Jim, Bruce, Alfred, Harvey, and a Riddler that is cracking up. @Chaos Theory reminded me that Leslie is still out there. Goodness knows what she's doing in No Man's Land.

ETA: Rewatching the copter scene. Totally forgot Oswald's crew has at least one crew with his portrait on it. I live on Staten Island, and I haven't taken the train to the ferry in a while. Outside one stop, you can see a garage of vehicles from the show. I should go there soon. Am I sad for thinking that?

Oh, The Warriors, great movie although I actually think the whole scenario is more akin to 'Escape from New York'?

"GCPD, GCPD, COME OUT TO PLAY!"

Edited May 13, 2019 by Joe Hellandback

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 2:20 AM, Chaos Theory said:

What if Ed and Lee are literally the same person now.   What if Hugo Strange turned them into the same person.  Normally I would say that is stupid and impossible but this is Gotham.  What if when Ed blacks out he is becoming Lee Thompkins and whatever she becomes when she wakes up?

God, that's interesting, maybe they're a sort of Ladyhawke scenario, she's awake when he's asleep?

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 2:22 AM, jbscotchman said:

Great first episode! Sad to see Tabitha and Butch both gone now though.  

Hey, TIG!

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 4:02 AM, Danielg342 said:

R.I.P. Tabitha...and, I guess she's really dead because Barbara mourned her.

Oh, and is that crazy woman that tried to contact Jim Harley Quinn? I sure got those vibes.

Plus whatever The Riddler was going through was fun, owing to Cory Michael-Smith's deranged performance.

I do believe, overall, this episode meandered and took way too long to get to the point. That said, Ben McKenzie's performance as the resolute Gordon really gave this episode some urgency, and the crazy shootout scene with the GCPD and Penguin really helped set the tone for what we're going to see.

So, while I wouldn't call this a winner, I'd say it at least starts things on the right foot.

Harvey was mostly a background player for this episode, but he still had quite a few moments to shine. There was some great zingers ("Department of Douchebaggery") and Donal Logue put some life into Bullock, but he was most poignant when he told Jim that he should have shot Penguin to kill him. Yeah, I know..."plot armour" and all...but it's sometimes good to remember how some characters have it.

Yeah, loved his 'Never pay taxes again' line. My theory is that the voice on the radio is actually Ivy. Or Lee?

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 5:40 AM, Kostgard said:

Random thoughts:

When is Oswald going to realize he should never make a deal with Jim Gordon? Jim dicks him over every. Single. Time. Just don’t bother trying.

Happy trails, Tabby. I hope Barbara’s revenge scheme wraps up quickly, because...come on. This show is never killing off Oswald. Give her something else to do rather than something she’s guaranteed to fail. 

Why is Mr Penn back working with Oswald? Does he just love getting abuse and eating shit all day? Is this another fetish like the baby thing? (ETA: Jinx, Lantern7! We had the same thought!)

That is one seriously cute bulldog.

Poor Selina. Bruce, I know you want to help and you feel responsible. But check out a few Disney movies first - making a deal with a mysterious witch never goes well.

The person Ed should be mad at is whomever gave him that haircut.

Makes sense, if Penn was trapped in Gotham when the bridges blew he would be dead meat, by teaming up with Penguin he'd be safe and Penguin needs an organiser.  

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 4:19 AM, opus said:

Definitely. It was major year long crossover in the late ‘90s

Cool Avatar, love Bloom County although disappointed with Breathed's current efforts.  

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 11:23 AM, mertensia said:

Gotham City sure has sucky Congressional and State Reps.

How tall is David Mazouz now? Because he is tall.

Barbara looks like Amanda Tapping now.

This was beautifully filmed.

We should definitely meet Gotham's Senator's and Congressmen, played by Burt Ward, Lynda Carter, Dean Cain

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 11:50 AM, scarletine said:

On points 3. and 4. I have a feeling that "The Witch" might just be Lee. She is a doctor, and the last we saw of her she was in Dr. Strange's hands,  Who knows what he's done with her? Either that, or I thought it sounded like her voice on that radio call that Jim got, letting him know he had allies on the mainland. Either way, I have a feeling she'll be making an appearance soon. 

Or Sophia?

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 6:35 PM, Dobian said:

The premise for this season is just too dark and apocalyptic for me, even by Gotham standards.  And sort of ridiculous.  If New York City was sealed off by criminals they would be sending in the military to take them out, what with little things like Wall Street and the U.N. there and all.

Yeah but this is Gotham, crime central for America. The rest of the country is probably glad to be rid of it