S05:E01 The Final Countdown

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Jazz prepares for a final weigh-in for her gender confirmation surgery. Meanwhile, Dr. Bowers shocks Greg and Jeanette with changes to the surgical plan. Jazz and her friends head out for a night of fun at prom, but it turns into a nightmare.

The new season starts January 1, 2019.  Happy New Year!  Jazz is back! And with it there will be more talk about genitalia.  

The episode is available on TLC.com for early viewing; therefore, this thread may contain spoilers.  Also, TLC has some clips about the season that also contain spoilers.  If you care, beware of what you watch or read.  Back away from the thread slowly . . . Very. Slowly.  

[sainte-chapelle]

What happened to Jazz's friend I missed it?

[threebluestars]

Noelle went to Marjorie Stoneman Douglas high school where the Parkland shooting happened and was in the school when it occurred. She has PTSD from that day.

[TerryeW1]

Most of the time, I find it difficult to like Jazz as a person, nothing to do with her gender - she is just so immature in many ways. 

I have always had a soft spot for her friend, Noelle who has not had all the lucky breaks and supports that Jazz had.

And tonight, my heart went out for Noelle and I cried for her. 

At first, I felt that TLC was very wrong in showing her very real and raw pain.

But it did make me aware that many of the kids at that school will suffer life long effects from the shooting.

Just being alive and not being shot is to be thankful for - but is in no way an escape from the crippling pain of PTSD.

[biakbiak]

Noelle is lovely and has had to deal with so much and she is so strong.

on a completely different note JoJo is gorgeous and she and Sander would make an adorable couple.

Greg’s genes are strong as fuck. Sander in a tux looked so much like his dad.

[maggiegil]

The Jennings eating off paper plates with plastic cutlery makes me so mad, its so bad for the environment. Its not a picnic or a childrens party and they're not on the road or something, I don't understand why they can't use proper plates and silverware.

 

Dr. Bowers is coming off as really unprofessional IMHO, how does 3 days in New York suddenly turn in to 3 weeks? The Jennings/TLC are in a good position financially to cover it but even if you disregard the money, how many people could stay an extra 18 days like Jeanette seems to be able to do with such little notice? I already had my doubts about Bowers agreeing to do this on a minor when its just a year until Jazz turns 18 and can legally consent but the constantly changing surgical plan and aftercare plan has me wondering if this is all engineered by TLC for drama or is this how Dr. Bowers practice is run.

[bichonblitz]

Telling her dad she's worried about having an ugly vagina. I can't with this kid. 

[TomGirl]

4 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Telling her dad she's worried about having an ugly vagina. I can't with this kid. 

I honestly think she does this just to tease him a bit, because she knows it makes him uncomfortable.  She and her dad seem to have a really good relationship.

[KBrownie]

6 hours ago, maggiegil said:

The Jennings eating off paper plates with plastic cutlery makes me so mad, its so bad for the environment. Its not a picnic or a childrens party and they're not on the road or something, I don't understand why they can't use proper plates and silverware.

 

Dr. Bowers is coming off as really unprofessional IMHO, how does 3 days in New York suddenly turn in to 3 weeks? The Jennings/TLC are in a good position financially to cover it but even if you disregard the money, how many people could stay an extra 18 days like Jeanette seems to be able to do with such little notice? I already had my doubts about Bowers agreeing to do this on a minor when its just a year until Jazz turns 18 and can legally consent but the constantly changing surgical plan and aftercare plan has me wondering if this is all engineered by TLC for drama or is this how Dr. Bowers practice is run.

I thought is was absolutely ridiculous that the doctor could offer no specifics as to what exactly they were doing and how they were approaching Jazz's surgery.  I would never allow this on my teenager.  They would have to wait until they were eighteen and make the decision on their own.  There are far too many unknowns for me to ever be comfortable with allowing my child to undergo something so permanent and irreversible where they don't even really know what they are going to get in the end.  I really wish the parents had more willpower and didn't let Jazz run the show so much.  Maybe when she's eighteen there'll be less of experimental feel to her type of surgery.

[bichonblitz]

4 minutes ago, TomGirl said:

I honestly think she does this just to tease him a bit, because she knows it makes him uncomfortable.  She and her dad seem to have a really good relationship.

She does it in front of the entire family, though,  including the grandparents. We get it, Jazz. You want a pretty little vagina. We heard all about that last season. Enough.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

A friend, under his publishing company, created a book of photos of vulvas.  These photos were taken explicitly for the book; they are not culled from other sources.  It is for use in medical training so that medical personnel learn the great range in appearance of "normal" genitalia.  Jazz could really use some time with this book with someone explaining to her that this is the great range of normal, so if she fits into that range, she's good.  Of course, she might try to turn it into a shopping expedition.  I understand her focus on wanting to have her body match her mind.  I am simply tired of hearing about pretty vaginas.  

On a completely separate note, my heart breaks for Noelle. 

[KBrownie]

15 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

She does it in front of the entire family, though,  including the grandparents. We get it, Jazz. You want a pretty little vagina. We heard all about that last season. Enough.

And boobs!  She wants big boobs too!  And to be 5''7.

Jazz is just still seems really immature even for all of the things she knows and has experienced.  There is like no awareness for her that NO ONE gets to dictate what their perfect body will be and that we all, whether we were born physically as the right gender or not, wish we could change things that we can't.  But in her world, she's always been able to get what she wants, so of course she thinks she can control how tall she's going to be and that her vagina will be perfect.  It's also a sign of immaturity to me that she's still going on about a "pretty vagina," but the doctors can't even say how they are going to give that to her and she doesn't seem to be able to put two and two together.  She must be showing her therapists something other than what she's putting on TV for them to give her the letters she needed for the doctor.

Poor Noelle.  I live about 20-25 minutes north of Jazz in Palm Beach County (the show annoyingly and inexplicably uses exterior shots of my city even though they are never anywhere close lol) and teach at a local high school, so the Parkland shooting has been a big part of life here as well.  It's super scary to just have to TALK about gun safety and what to do if something happens, so I can't imagine what it's like for her and the other students, faculty, and families to have to have endured it.  

It was great to see the girls having fun and getting ready to go to prom together.

[Emmeline]

5 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Telling her dad she's worried about having an ugly vagina. I can't with this kid. 

I’m with you on this.  Where is she getting her visual reference of what a perfect vagina should look like?  Other than my own or seeing a birth (which is a whole different thing) I’ve never seen an actual vaginal shot of a real person.

Maybe I should look for  copy of the book PrincessPurrsALot mentioned.  Of course then I’d surely think mine was ugly.  Face it, after a few kids come through there, it’s never quite the same.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Emmeline

[Madding crowd]

I would be very concerned about my child having surgery when her doctor cannot explain exactly what will be done, is vague about time limits and details , and significant risks can occur. Dr Bowers doesn’t seem very professional. I also don’t understand her going on and on over one pound being a dealbreaker when she is basically using an underage teen as a guinea pig.

I also felt sorry for Noelle and I hope she can find some healing from this trauma. I thought all the girls looked nice in their prom dresses. 

Back to Dr Bowers, why can’t she speak privately to Jazz about orgasms? Her parents don’t need to be involved in that part of her life. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by Madding crowd

[Kid]

13 hours ago, TerryeW1 said:

Just  being alive and not being shot is to be thankful for - but is in no way an escape from the crippling pain of PTSD.

Not to mention survivor guilt!!!

I think that Jazz showed a lot of overall maturity in this episode and that was nice to see. She seems to have grown up.

2 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

She does it in front of the entire family, though,  including the grandparents. We get it, Jazz. You want a pretty little vagina. We heard all about that last season. Enough.

Really, has anyone ever seen a pretty vagina???  It is not an organ known for its beauty.

People have pretty eyes, hair, face, not vaginas.  What she wants is a vagina that looks like she was born with it. And that I get.

[Dobian]

3 hours ago, KBrownie said:

And boobs!  She wants big boobs too!  And to be 5''7.

Jazz is just still seems really immature even for all of the things she knows and has experienced.  There is like no awareness for her that NO ONE gets to dictate what their perfect body will be and that we all, whether we were born physically as the right gender or not, wish we could change things that we can't.  But in her world, she's always been able to get what she wants, so of course she thinks she can control how tall she's going to be and that her vagina will be perfect.  It's also a sign of immaturity to me that she's still going on about a "pretty vagina," but the doctors can't even say how they are going to give that to her and she doesn't seem to be able to put two and two together.  She must be showing her therapists something other than what she's putting on TV for them to give her the letters she needed for the doctor.

This show sends a really bad message about parents indulging their narcissistic kids to the point of putting their health at serious risk simply because they can't accept certain realities about who they are.

[TomGirl]

5 hours ago, KBrownie said:

It was great to see the girls having fun and getting ready to go to prom together.

They all looked so nice, and JoJo is just beautiful.

[sainte-chapelle]

19 hours ago, threebluestars said:

Noelle went to Marjorie Stoneman Douglas high school where the Parkland shooting happened and was in the school when it occurred. She has PTSD from that day.

Oh shit that is awful, poor Noelle.

[Ravello]

Jazz is so immature, entitled, spoiled.  Noelle should be the star of the show.  Just love her mature demeanor and sincere friendship to all.  We don’t know her story but I doubt if multi generations of her family are catering to her.

Marci Bowers is self promoting and looking for referrals.  Cannot believe she actually performed this surgery on an immature minor.   

I don’t get the big deal jazz and family made about staying longer in NYC.  They are demand body mutilating surgery, life will never be the same.  Just wait until jazz starts having revisions, repairs, redo procedures. I feel bad for the siblings.  

[Sew Sumi]

3 hours ago, Dobian said:

This show sends a really bad message about parents indulging their narcissistic kids to the point of putting their health at serious risk simply because they can't accept certain realities about who they are.

That's why counseling from two separate professionals is required. It's a lot more complicated than your post makes it appear.

[Madding crowd]

One of the professionals Jazz saw was “cousin Debbie” though so if I were the doctor I would still have concerns. I almost wonder if Dr Bowers insistence on cancelling the surgery if Jazz were one pound over was her way of wanting to delay the surgery for awhile.

I have no issue with Jazz wanting the surgery, but as a parent myself I would be terrified of the uncertainty with how it will be done, the risks of hemorrhagic and the fact that a three day stay turned into a three week stay with no explanation why. I certainly hope everything turns out Ok and I assume they wouldn’t do the show at all if it didn’t. 

[Kareny]

I'm glad the show is addressing Noelle's involvement with the Parkland shooting head on, although it's terrible to see her in pain. And that's without taking into consideration the way that some of her classmates have been viciously attacked on social media. I hadn't even considered that while some of her higher-profile peers (like Emma Gonzalez and David Hogg) have been facing crazy internet hatred, they've probably also been struggling with PTSD similar to Noelle's. 

Wasn't she spotted onstage at the March For Our Lives rally in DC? I hope we'll get to see more about her involvement in that. 

Hopefully the intelligence and resilience we saw in earlier seasons will help her get through this, too, and be a stronger person for all of it. She has the potential to be an amazing activist, but she should focus on her own health first.

[ClareWalks]

I love Noelle and thought she looked stunning at the prom. I felt so bad for her, not only for the anxiety/PTSD itself, but for the added guilt of feeling like she was spoiling her friends' prom. Poor girl. It really shows how insidious gun violence is on so many levels.

[Bridget]

Can one of the surgeons do something to correct how Jazz chews her food? She’s stilll chewing with her mouth open.

I’m also really over her & Jeanette’s whole “must have fairy tale relationship” shit. We get it: she’s still boy crazy, which isn’t normal for most high school seniors. I teach high school and most of the students who date during that time don’t even know each other’s middle name. They have other things to focus on other than finding the love of their lives. I’ve also taught middle school and Jazz reminds me a lot of those students (grades 6-8) in terms of her hormones. I wonder if that was discussed in therapy?

Jazz doesn’t have anything to compare her expectations for a relationship to and that’s shocking to me. It’s not her job and God knows her siblings have sacrificed a lot for Jazz, but has Ari never said: “Listen up. Let me tell you about teenage guys....” to get Jazz to settle her tea kettle?

Shout out to Sander for being an amazing human being. I realize he’s missing his brother, but him taking the girls to prom (anyone else see him get up and get tissues for Noelle?) seemed really sincere. It didn’t seem like he was going along for camera time and a paycheck. I like him.

I’m sad to see that Lynn’s parents still aren’t accepting (especially on prom nighy), but damn! I want her to bottle her self-confidence and sell it in a tablet! I’d buy it all. She’s come such a long way in terms of her confidence and I am thrilled for her.

Noelle continues to grow and show more maturity each season. She looked stunning in the coral dress w/ gold sequins that she tried on. Her hair and make up were beautiful on prom night.

I hope Jazz’s friends are being paid for appearing on the show. These amazing young women will undoubtedly need financial assistance to use in order to move forward with their transition process. 

I don’t have kids, so I don’t have a strong opinion about the treatment plan being in limbo. I agree that it’s not making the surgical team look proficient and the risks are scary. However, my understanding is that Jazz had the surgery in June of 2018. She turned 18 four months later. That said, I don’t know that her surgeons would have had a better game plan several months later. 

Edited January 3, 2019 by Bridget

[TwirlyGirly]

3 hours ago, Ravello said:

<snip>

 

 They are demand body mutilating surgery, life will never be the same.  Just wait until jazz starts having revisions, repairs, redo procedures. I feel bad for the siblings.  

What I see is the parents *supporting* Jazz in her desire to bring her body in alignment with her actual gender (as opposed to insisting she accept the gender she was assigned at birth).

As for "mutilating"; for those born intersex (either with ambiguous genitalia or with both male and female genitalia), would surgery to correct the appearance of their genitalia so that it looks, and functions (as much as possible) as exclusively either male or female be considered "mutilating", or "corrective"? I would argue most would consider such surgery "corrective". "Mutilating" implies having something perfectly functional purposely damaged with surgery; but to someone who is gender dysphoric, having the genitalia of the opposite gender is a defect that should be corrected. Their genitalia is likewise not "functional" in the sense someone who is assigned male at birth, born with male genitalia, and who is gender dysphoric cannot fully function as a woman without corrective surgery.

[Quilty]

I'm really confused about who's who or who's what with the friends. Is the person with short dark hair and glasses about transitioning into a girl.? And the small person. Legit girl or what. Good god I feel so fucking old!

[TomGirl]

7 minutes ago, Quilty said:

I’m really confused about who's who or who's what with the friends. Is the person with short dark hair and glasses about transitioning into a girl.? And the small person. Legit girl or what. Good god I feel so fucking old!

All four are transitioning from male (assigned at birth) to female.  And don’t worry, you’re not old, it’s just that the times, they are a’changin’.

[cinsbythesea]

So..it looks in the previews that Jazz is looking at getting her own place??  Did I misinterpret that?

Edited January 3, 2019 by cinsbythesea
Spellchecker

[Bridget]

1 hour ago, Quilty said:

I'm really confused about who's who or who's what with the friends. Is the person with short dark hair and glasses about transitioning into a girl.? And the small person. Legit girl or what. Good god I feel so fucking old!

Lynn has the shorter hair and glasses and is transitioning male to female. Her parents are total assholes and have essentially said: “We’re not down with this. You’re making a choice to want to be a female.” She was introduced last season as a new friend of Jazz’s. She looks more like a “typical male” because her parents have said they will kick her out of the house if she even grows her hair out. (Someone pls correct me if I’m wrong about the consequences of her not keeping her hair short.) 

She is the one who also is chock full of confidence and self-esteem, which makes me SO happy, especially because of her parents’ attitude.

Lynn has been saving money to begin hormone treatments because her parents won’t give her a red penny for anything to help her transition. That’s why I really hope that Jazz’s friends are getting paid to appear on camera.

I remember Jojo from previous seasons, but I cannot recall anything about her history. Her mom was the one with dark hair and tattoos who was crying happy tears on prom night.

[Visaman666]

15 hours ago, Emmeline said:

I’m with you on this.  Where is she getting her visual reference of what a perfect vagina should look like?  Other than my own or seeing a birth (which is a whole different thing) I’ve never seen an actual vaginal shot of a real person.

Maybe I should look for  copy of the book PrincessPurrsALot mentioned.  Of course then I’d surely think mine was ugly.  Face it, after a few kids come through there, it’s never quite the same.

 

All you have to do is go on Twitter, there are no shortage of women eager to show their beaver.

 

SORRY THAT WAS A BAD PUN AND I APPOLOGIZE!

Edited January 3, 2019 by Visaman666
To add an apology

[Visaman666]

7 hours ago, Bridget said:

 I’ve also taught middle school and Jazz reminds me a lot of those students (grades 6-8) in terms of her hormones. I wonder if that was discussed in therapy?

Jazz was supressed as a child, so Jazz never experienced the puberty process of CIS boys. Jazz has never ejaculated, that is what I meant to say. So, yes, Jazz is still in her tweenage.

8 hours ago, Kareny said:

I'm glad the show is addressing Noelle's involvement with the Parkland shooting head on, although it's terrible to see her in pain. And that's without taking into consideration the way that some of her classmates have been viciously attacked on social media. I hadn't even considered that while some of her higher-profile peers (like Emma Gonzalez and David Hogg) have been facing crazy internet hatred, they've probably also been struggling with PTSD similar to Noelle's. 

Wasn't she spotted onstage at the March For Our Lives rally in DC? I hope we'll get to see more about her involvement in that. 

Hopefully the intelligence and resilience we saw in earlier seasons will help her get through this, too, and be a stronger person for all of it. She has the potential to be an amazing activist, but she should focus on her own health first.

David Hogg wasn't even at the school during the shooting. That's where the hostility to him is coming from.

[Visaman666]

14 hours ago, Kid said:

Not to mention survivor guilt!!!

I think that Jazz showed a lot of overall maturity in this episode and that was nice to see. She seems to have grown up.

Really, has anyone ever seen a pretty vagina???  It is not an organ known for its beauty.

People have pretty eyes, hair, face, not vaginas.  What she wants is a vagina that looks like she was born with it. And that I get.

I went through that stage when I was considering transistioning. This show has helped me in NOT moving forward, and I am 54! I have seen inside a vagina, and it is not pretty. What Jazz means is that she wants pretty labia. Like the ones in Penthouse Magazine. Yes, I am dating myself, LOL! 

[Kid]

4 hours ago, Visaman666 said:

I went through that stage when I was considering transistioning. This show has helped me in NOT moving forward, and I am 54! I have seen inside a vagina, and it is not pretty. What Jazz means is that she wants pretty labia. Like the ones in Penthouse Magazine. Yes, I am dating myself, LOL! 

LOL!!!  That makes sense - thanks for clarifying.  

What is so sad about this is that  the images in magazines have made women insecure and striving for perfection that doesn’t exist for years.  Unfortunately, that perfection is airbrushed.

[Cotypubby]

I'd love to watch a whole show about Noelle, she is great! What I really noticed in this episode was that all of her friends come across as much more real than Jazz does. Like every line Jazz speaks to the camera seems like a performance. That might just be a result of her having spent her entire life in front of the cameras, but it makes me less interested in what she has to say.

[Jadzia]

On 1/2/2019 at 12:09 PM, KBrownie said:

She must be showing her therapists something other than what she's putting on TV for them to give her the letters she needed for the doctor.

 

I thought it was interesting when the surgeon explained one of the reasons for the therapists letter is because the procedure ensures lifelong sterility - didn't Jazz's parents essentially do that by giving her hormones that prevented her from starting puberty? Isn't that the reason her surgery is so complicated now?

[Lesia]

God, talking about orgasms in front of your parents. Talk about mortifying.  

[calpurnia99]

I thought she seemed more mature than last season. I'm glad she got out of eating junk food in bed stage.  

Dr. Bowers did say they still were not sure exactly what they were doing. But now it is looking like she is not getting the standard vaginoplasty but the one where they use the lining (I thought it was colon but Jazz was calling it her stomach). After Jazz visited a bunch of surgeons they all said they could not do a standard procedure, but Dr, Bowers promised she could! I was wondering how she could do it and no one else could.? She claimed she had enough tissue to work with. Apparently she doesn't anymore.  

[Kareny]

14 hours ago, Visaman666 said:

David Hogg wasn't even at the school during the shooting. That's where the hostility to him is coming from.

That's not true at all: https://www.factcheck.org/2018/04/david-hogg-at-school-during-parkland-shooting/

To keep this on topic with the show, I do think this illustrates an important theme about what Noelle and her classmates have been through and how they've been treated, and you add that to the challenges she already faces by being publicly out as a transgender teenager. It's a unique situation and I hope it does get more coverage on the show. 

[Mollysmom]

17 hours ago, Visaman666 said:

I went through that stage when I was considering transistioning. This show has helped me in NOT moving forward, and I am 54! I have seen inside a vagina, and it is not pretty. What Jazz means is that she wants pretty labia. Like the ones in Penthouse Magazine. Yes, I am dating myself, LOL! 

THANK YOU for pointing that out. I have practically yelled at the tv every time she says she wants a pretty vagina. You can't see it!!! Unless you are looking inside the body. You see the labia. That just drives me nuts that no one corrects her. 

[Bastet]

Other than medical personnel, she may not have anyone around her to correct her -- far too many people say vagina when they mean vulva.  Labia is probably even more "the what?" to them.

I only saw a small portion of this episode, so I mostly only have the shallow to comment on: Noelle's hair and dress were seriously on point.  They all looked nice - although Lynn's dress looked like a bridesmaid dress from David's Bridal - but her hair and dress were particularly notable.

I liked that Jazz, upon finding Noelle, asked, "Is there anything I can do?"  She didn't plop right down or even ask, "What can I do," instead leaving wide open the opportunity for Noelle to say, "No, it's best for me to be alone" if that was what she wanted.  And I loved Noelle's thumbs-up gesture when Jazz said she was going to bring her cake, and then hang out with her.  But when Jazz told the others what was up and asked if they wanted to leave the room, the lights were up like at the end of the night.

[KBrownie]

35 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Other than medical personnel, she may not have anyone around her to correct her -- far too many people say vagina when they mean vulva.  Labia is probably even more "the what?" to them.

But at this point shouldn't Jazz, of all people, know the difference?  I'm not really directing this question towards anyone in particular but, I mean, she's been a pretty prominent face of the transgender community for a while now and this surgery has been something she's wanted for a long time, so knowing the difference between "labia," "vulva," and "vagina" seems pretty basic.  She's having this major surgery that will completely transform her genitals and is a bit of a know-it-all when it comes to anything transgender overall, but she can't even get the basics right.  The doctor flat out said that Jazz doesn't even know what an orgasm is.  But yet, they are going to push ahead with this surgery.  It's just so amazing to me.  I don't think she's joking when she says she wants a "pretty vagina" as Jazz has shown herself to be very concerned about how she looks, so I think this  is another sign of her immaturity and not truly knowing what she's about to get.  The doctors aren't helping in that regard either.  For her, anything will be better than having a penis, but the fact that the doctors aren't being specific about the end result is a big red flag to me.  I just hope it all works out in the long-term. 

[Visaman666]

13 hours ago, Kareny said:

That's not true at all: https://www.factcheck.org/2018/04/david-hogg-at-school-during-parkland-shooting/

To keep this on topic with the show, I do think this illustrates an important theme about what Noelle and her classmates have been through and how they've been treated, and you add that to the challenges she already faces by being publicly out as a transgender teenager. It's a unique situation and I hope it does get more coverage on the show. 

I stand corrected then.

[princelina]

On 1/2/2019 at 2:44 AM, biakbiak said:

Greg’s genes are strong as fuck. Sander in a tux looked so much like his dad.

Lucky for him!  Something about Jeanette's face makes me want to punch it, and as Jazz gets older she's getting that same look.

 

On 1/2/2019 at 4:39 AM, maggiegil said:

Dr. Bowers is coming off as really unprofessional IMHO, how does 3 days in New York suddenly turn in to 3 weeks? The Jennings/TLC are in a good position financially to cover it but even if you disregard the money, how many people could stay an extra 18 days like Jeanette seems to be able to do with such little notice? I already had my doubts about Bowers agreeing to do this on a minor when its just a year until Jazz turns 18 and can legally consent but the constantly changing surgical plan and aftercare plan has me wondering if this is all engineered by TLC for drama or is this how Dr. Bowers practice is run.

I don't wonder at all :). I know next to nothing about this surgery, but mere common sense tells me you wouldn't have it and fly from NY to Florida sitting on it a week later.

 

On 1/2/2019 at 1:41 PM, Madding crowd said:

 Back to Dr Bowers, why can’t she speak privately to Jazz about orgasms? Her parents don’t need to be involved in that part of her life. 

See bolded part above :)

 

On 1/2/2019 at 8:56 PM, Bridget said:

Noelle continues to grow and show more maturity each season. She looked stunning in the coral dress w/ gold sequins that she tried on. Her hair and make up were beautiful on prom night.

At the beginning of the episode I thought sweet Noelle looked homelier than ever - but then I thought she looked fantastic in all of the dresses she tried on!  None of them really knew what to do at first there - it would be a fun episode for them to meet with a stylist or two about clothing that would look attractive and give them confidence.

 

On 1/3/2019 at 1:13 PM, Cotypubby said:

I'd love to watch a whole show about Noelle, she is great! What I really noticed in this episode was that all of her friends come across as much more real than Jazz does. Like every line Jazz speaks to the camera seems like a performance. That might just be a result of her having spent her entire life in front of the cameras, but it makes me less interested in what she has to say.

I also noticed that this episode began as the first episode of every season begins - with Jazz saying, "I really haven't seen them in a while because we're all busy."  Translation:  I haven't seen them since we quit filming last season?

[Fostersmom]

On 1/2/2019 at 2:44 AM, biakbiak said:

Greg’s genes are strong as fuck. Sander in a tux looked so much like his dad.

I seriously thought he was Greg at first glance. 

Four months really isn't going to make a huge difference in Jazz's surgery, but the timing for the rest of the family and school probably did. It's not like when someone turns 18 they are magically smarter, more mature, or better prepared for anything. Wasn't the plan to have the surgery while she was high school and so it would be completely healed before college? I realized today when I watched this episode that I missed part of last season, I didn't know she wasn't attending her old school and hadn't seen anything about a date with the girl they keep showing, so I don't know if that was still the timing they were working with though. Plenty of parents time medical procedures over summer or school breaks, so they certainly wouldn't be the first or the last to do so. And it's also not like medical procedures are always 100% certain and perfect outcomes. We all know someone who had something done or a treatment and the end results weren't what was planned, be it side effects, human error, or just plain risk.

You can do all the planning you want, but sometimes things happen. I have MS. My current medication has a mile long list of side effects that can, and sometimes do, happen. I get my blood work done every 6 months to make sure it's not killing off too many of my white blood cells. The last medication required an eye exam and an EKG before it could be prescribed, and then another EKG before the first dose and a minimum of 8 hours of observation after the dose, my pulse, and heart rate checked once an hour, and if it dropped during an hour, another hour added to the time each time it dropped, and then another EKG at the end of the 8 hours. Passed all of that with flying colors. Luckily I had a regular eye exam scheduled just a few months after all of this... I happened to have one of the rare side effects and my new fancy medication was causing blindness in my left eye and the eye doctor caught it quick enough that it didn't do irreversible damage or have time to start effecting the right eye too. I read all the literature, looked at all the meds I could switch to, did my research, asked for options snd opinions, made my choice, and yeah, shit happens.

So would waiting 4 months have made a difference in Jazz's decision or outcome? Probably not. But those 4 months could have made a huge difference in the timing of and impact on many years of Jazz's life. Once she goes to college, she might have summer internships or courses. And most students want to get a jump start on a career right after graduation. She's already discussed the medically required things she'd have to do right after the surgery, so right after high school would not be something anyone would want to do at a dorm when they could do it in the privacy of her own home. 

I will say, Jazz looks like she's gained a hunk of weight back. I saw the after the show bit, or whatever they are calling it, with her and mom, and she looked like she's put on a good 15 pounds. I've read things didn't quite go as planned, so I have no doubts she was eating her feelings again. 

[Nohardfeelings]

8 hours ago, Fostersmom said:

I will say, Jazz looks like she's gained a hunk of weight back. I saw the after the show bit, or whatever they are calling it, with her and mom, and she looked like she's put on a good 15 pounds. I've read things didn't quite go as planned, so I have no doubts she was eating her feelings again. 

Yeah, Jennette posted a picture of Jazz and her siblings on instagram and I was shocked when I saw her. I guess the weight loss was just for the surgery and when it was all said and done, she stopped trying.

[Scarlett45]

I’m watching the episode now- awwww Sander. I can understand how it’s “different” with Griffin having a serious girlfriend and a new best friend, but they will always be twins and brothers. I just want to give Sander a hug.  

 

Good that Noelle is in therapy regarding the shooting. I’ve always thought she had such a pose about her, and she’s such an articulate young lady. 

[Sew Sumi]

10 hours ago, Heartismyarmor said:

Yeah, Jennette posted a picture of Jazz and her siblings on instagram and I was shocked when I saw her. I guess the weight loss was just for the surgery and when it was all said and done, she stopped trying.

She also might have had to be rather sedentary after the surgery. She seems to not be able to control her weight with diet alone. That said, I wager she got ALL her favorite comfort foods post surgery.

[SunnyBeBe]

REF. Dr. Bowers. She used to have a show years ago, when she was practicing in CO.  It was like a mini docu series that featured various trans patients.  It was really good and that's when I first saw her.  

[J. Matazz]

My heart breaks for Noelle. That girl doesn't do anything for the cameras. She simply is what you get from her. It's hard to not be in shock, crying when you see her escape the prom for simply self-psychological preservation, if understandably so.

On 1/2/2019 at 7:18 AM, bichonblitz said:

Telling her dad she's worried about having an ugly vagina. I can't with this kid. 

This to me means something different between someone like you and someone like myself or Jazz. I hope I'm right, but prior to when I had surgery, I had concerns about the look but not so much the porn star deal as much as I didn't want my body to look like it had any history of male genitalia. Otherwise, that's vanity, and, well, eh, not realistic. Do wish she'd get the part names right, for the sake of education.

 

On 1/2/2019 at 1:41 PM, Madding crowd said:

Back to Dr Bowers, why can’t she speak privately to Jazz about orgasms? Her parents don’t need to be involved in that part of her life. 

1

Curiosity, simply, because it's different, from the parental perspective. I would know! I've been asked the same, by people who attend my talks, or even relatives. If it helps people understand, that's worth it, and Jazz is cut from a similar cloth from mine in that regard. If more people know about a particular aspect, it's less a concern about getting it out there. I personally see that as a worthwhile tradeoff, and I'd fathom she does as well.

 

On 1/2/2019 at 4:39 AM, maggiegil said:

I already had my doubts about Bowers agreeing to do this on a minor when its just a year until Jazz turns 18 and can legally consent but the constantly changing surgical plan and aftercare plan has me wondering if this is all engineered by TLC for drama or is this how Dr. Bowers practice is run.

 

I've asked Dr. Bowers on her minimum age, and she said 17. That part isn't too surprising, given it's considered part of her typical practice. It's not typical of how Dr. Bowers' office is run. If anything, booking with her was a relative ease contrasted with all the back and forths with insurance to ensure coverage. They were awesome. Asked me when I could do surgery, offered me two months or seven months away, and then a choice of date therewithin. Getting dates with primary doctors can be tougher than that, you know?

 

The runaround is actually not TLC engineered. Surprise!

On 1/5/2019 at 2:24 PM, princelina said:

I don't wonder at all :). I know next to nothing about this surgery, but mere common sense tells me you wouldn't have it and fly from NY to Florida sitting on it a week later.

1

That number isn't too far from the truth in typical cases, honestly. My surgery was May 13th, flew back home to Rhode Island on the 24th. The real deal though is the recovery time. For Dr. Bowers, Ting, or anyone else, that's typically 10-12 weeks, resting at home, mostly in bed, forget stairs, lifting, or the like. You're doing nothing, and get time off to just heal, take those pain relievers, stool softeners, and dilate. Repeat.

[possibilities]

The part that seemed weird to me was that the family was thinking a much different amount of time in NY than what Bowers was telling them, as though the time frame kept changing. It just seemed like they really ought to have been clearer about what to expect, by the time the date had been set.