KBrownie

My fault, the original post didn't specify that it was bad acting that all those characters had in common and that's why they shouldn't participate in anything regarding Doug's death. I read "serious characters" as those who had real ties to the character that it would make sense for them to be a part of events involving his death. I didn't particularly enjoy Jack for most of his last appearances either, but I blame the nonsensical writing for that. There wasn't much Matt could do with the complete and utter BS nonsense they had Jack spouting as part of the hack job on Jack to try and make retcon Gwen work. Plus, I really never though him and CM had much chem. He's best with MR, or in family stuff with Steve and Abby and JJ.

I really don't see how Jack could be grouped with any of these characters. In any way. But in regards to Doug, he had an actual relationship with both Doug and Julie. Jack is family. I don't see why his participation in the events surrounding Doug's passing wouldn't be just as serious as anyone else. Jack's presence makes sense. Unlike any of those others. I do hope KA and PR are able to return as well.

She wasn’t being installed. She was inheriting her throne as tradition. Aegon was the one who was installed. And no one knew for certain that it would tear the realm apart. They all would have had to just deal with it. But everyone certainly DID know that usurping a throne probably wouldn’t cause everlasting peace. Not installing her also tore the realm apart. But that too is somehow Rhaenyra’s fault for not just accepting the Hightowers usurping her. It’s funny how SHE is the one who is supposed to just accept it and move on but the Hightowers aren’t criticized for not just accepting what Viserys wanted. Rhaenyra and Daemon would have been absolute fools to send their youngest boys to be Hightower hostages. Alicent and Otto would have tortured those boys because of their parents. They would have gotten extra pleasure out of torturing them because not only was Rhaenyra their mother, they were Daemon’s only sons. They hated Jace, Luke, and Joffrey just because of their mother. They would have likely just killed them when they had the chance. Crazy Aemond would probably get jealous that they were more Targaryen than him.

I agree it's an absolutely brilliant and effective strategy. The posters as well. I liked how the Green promo had the Aegon actor introducing it while the Black had the Rhaenyra actress introducing that one because the leaders of both sides now that there will be a war SHOULD be him and Rhaenyra, but then the majority of the Green promo is still all about Alicent. Aegon is just her puppet in her made-up war against Rhaenyra. Just as she was, and still is, her father’s. The problem with the promotion is that it still misses a fundamental point. There's so much "both sides"-ing of the two sides when it's just the greens who are at the root of all the tension and conflict in the lead up to and final action of usurping the throne. They were the ones lying, plotting, and manipulating in their own greed and ambition for power. The two sides are not the same. Team Green are the villains of this story. RHAENYRA’S story. They aren’t equals to her. That's not to say that anyone on team black never did anything wrong or are moral and good people. But nothing any of them did, unlike the greens, was directly responsible for the war or what led up to it. They were living their own lives and largely minding their own business while Alicent, Otto, and the rest are plotting because they are greedy, resentful, and jealous haters. Rhaenyra was the chosen and rightful heir as decided by her father the King. Whether one agrees with that decision or not, it was her right. She didn’t steal it. She didn’t gain that position through any deceitful means. She isn’t wrong to want what was taken from her and to defend herself against an unwarranted and undeserved attack. Rhaenyra doesn’t have to just give in and accept whatever the Greens dish out. Especially when THEY are the ones in the wrong. As far as the actual promo, Alicent still going strong in her self-righteous delusions. She’s gaslighting herself along with everyone else at this point. She isn’t responsible for anything that has happened or is about to happen. Rhaenyra just wants revenge. Viserys wanted Aegon. She’s such an absolute clown. I might have more respect if the coward just owned up to her machinations, but nope. Rhaenyra is responsible for everything. She’s just the victim protecting her children. It seems that she has passed on her delusions to her sons as well. Especially that bootleg, poor imitation for Daemon, Aemond. He welcomes the challenge from Daemon? Lol, he don’t want that smoke. He’s done absolutely nothing other than be slightly better than his rapist brother to have so much ego and bluster. Accidentally killing a 14-year-old because your dragon wouldn’t listen to your orders doesn’t put him in the same league as Daemon. And last I remember, he cowered and walked off when faced with Daemon directly. Another clown. Team Black. Anything Rhaenyra or Daemon do to reclaim her throne, defend their family, and avenge Luke is justified. Don't start none, won't be none.

Same. I thought Lila should have been the one to go. I was okay with Elsie being safe because her issue wasn’t taste or technical mistakes. Underbaking in a baking competition seems to be a bigger error than not enough filling. Isn’t this also at least Lila’s second time in the bottom? I enjoy the all the variations of the baking championship, but sometimes the judging is frustratingly inconsistent.

I haven’t watched yet, but was that the explanation given for why she had an ornament? Or did they try to play it as having something to do with Abby? Her already having an ornament seems to be convenient for the show to continue to try and play up a strong familial connection between Abigail and Stephanie that never was really there other than their fathers being brothers. They should have brought Stephanie back before they killed Abigail. Stephanie caring about Abigail and her kids rings false to me. Chad is her main interest. She won’t have anything to do with those kids if storyline needs take her out of Chad’s orbit. Wasn’t Sonny the only Johnson cousin that Abigail and JJ were shown to be close to? There were brief mentions of Tripp as JJ’s cousin and Jack’s nephew when he and JJ were trying to help Hailey when amnesiac Jack and Eve were trying to get her deported. Abigail and JJ also were shown to have relationships with Steve/Kayla and Adrienne/Justin as aunts and uncles, but not with Jack and Jennifer for Steve and Kayla’s kids. Or even just Jennifer when Jack was still dead. Was it different with the other adult versions of Stephanie and Joey? Even the teen versions of Abigail and Stephanie weren’t close when they were on screen at the same time. Abigail was closer to Chelsea at that time if I remember correctly.

Especially since Jack has/had done NOTHING to Xander except not continue to be an utter and complete fool when it came to Gwen. Jack never looked down on him for his past and let him stay at the Horton house when he had nowhere to go. Yet Xander blackmails him because his priority was his wife, his 30 plus year soulmate who was grieving their brutally murdered child over a brand-new “daughter” who had terrorized his family. That Jack wasn’t falling over himself over Gwen of all people. The same person who tried to kill the person Xander claims to love. Xander sucks. And if the fact that someone has done bad things is their past means they can’t be upset when someone, completely unrelated to the past deeds, wrongs them, then I guess Xander shouldn’t have anything to say when Theresa’s lie comes out. But of course he will (and absolutely should). Just like he was so hurt about Sarah keeping his kid from him, but had no qualms when he and Sarah did the same to Eric. That Horton Christmas gathering looks pathetic. Maggie, Sarah, and Xander are firmly Kiriakis every other day of the year except for when they are needed because they’ve gotten rid of all the other, more traditional Hortons besides Doug and Julie. What is Stephanie and her ex there for? Is Stephanie going to be upset that they dare to hang Abby’s ornament? Of course there will be a joke around Nick’s ornament. They probably wont even mention any of the obvious Hortons that aren’t there because the show has wiped them out.

For sure. The reasoning both times was always suspect.

I really hope they undo her connection to Jack on her way out. His, and Jennifer’s to a lesser extent, history and characterization was totally and unnecessarily damaged and sacrificed in order to facilitate this character. All for absolutely nothing. An absolute dud from start to finish. I wonder what’ll happen if this version of Theresa doesn’t work out. Will they keep forcing Gwen or give the actress another character? Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I don’t care one bit about Xander when it comes to the baby secret. Sarah is dead wrong, no doubt, but she was dead wrong when she did it to Eric and Xander happily participated in that lie. I hope the writers just have him be happy to have a daughter when he finds out and avoid any hypocritical histrionics about being lied to. At least his daughter will be alive. Eric lost all that time with his daughter and she died. I doubt Xander will suffer the same given his apparent leading man status.

I hope she’s a willing participant as well because if Dimitri and/or Leo are deceiving/manipulating her for his/their own ends, it will just give her another opportunity for one of her “poor, poor Gwen, no one loves me” trips. And no one wants or needs another round of that.

Eh. Maybe if Leo weren't a pointless retcon who'd been around for thirty years working at and building up the paper. Or if Diana had been around to do the same thing for her son. Not really the same thing.

It’s sort of irritating how they’ve taken the newspaper and completely erased Jack and Jennifer from the narrative and history surrounding it and given it to Xander and Gwen for them to try and build their own false legacy around it. Especially considering how they acquired it. You can’t really have your “own thing” and have it be “your future” when you steal it from someone else. They both are acting like they are some plucky upstarts with nothing but a dream, pulling themselves up by the bootstraps with all their honest hard work, determination, and drive to make it and this will be their great legacy that they built. Nope. Not buying it. They stole someone else’s legacy that was already a business in place and established and are acting like they started from nothing. It’s ridiculous for them to spout all their nonsense about the newspaper when everything they talk about they took from Jack and Jennifer. Even Xander and Chloe getting closer while building up the paper is a ripoff of early Jack and Jennifer. At least JnJ’s story was actually about the paper and not just them falling in love. You actually saw Jack teaching Jennifer about the job. They had to deal with at different points not being able to afford to keep the paper. They were actual journalists. They reported on the actual events happening in and around Salem which led to them interacting with different characters. Xander and Chloe spend their time flirting more than anything else. Apparently, based on the article above, that will continue to be all they do. Gwen only interviewed this new guy because it’s her next love interest. I wanted to punch Gwen in the face last week when she brushed off her and Xander’s stealing the paper from Jack and Jennifer with “oh they have another one in Connecticut.” The sociopath will never get it. The Spectator was never just a job to them. It’s part of their history, their legacy. And then she threw out that line about getting her skills from her father like she’s so proud of herself. I guess in her pea brain that justifies her complete lack of training or qualifications for the job. She brings up Jack, but doesn’t want to talk about what she did. Her or Xander. They both can STFU. If the show wanted Jack and Jennifer gone, they should have passed the paper on to their children, but that would have made too much sense. They’d already set up Abby to fill that role, but decided instead to remove the entire family instead and replace them in their own history. Gwen the nasty retcon is not the link to Jack and Jennifer the show thinks it, like her having the paper is honoring and acknowledging the history of it. Abigail/JJ? Absolutely. Retcon Gwen? Absolutely not. Give them some other business to play at. Don’t get me wrong, it’s good to use the history in a new way, but this isn’t it. But that’s been the problem when it comes to JnJ since Gwen showed up. Their history, particularly Jack’s, has been twisted and annihilated to accommodate the retcon.

Same. It's really amazing how many chances/stories dud Gwen has had to try and make her successful. This is her what, fourth, fifth love interest in the three, four years she's been around? In addition to all the other story she's had? Someone is really committed to the character for some reason. Chance after chance, story after story while proven successful characters languish off-screen. It's sort of comical how many new/recent characters dominate this show in stories all about them and they just keep adding more. I frankly just don't care. It would be one thing if these were the younger generations of established characters and families, but most aren't. They're just randos or silly retcons.

So once two years ago when Gwen lied about Kayla's actual niece being the reason she lost her baby? Point still stands. Gwen's "Aunt Kayla" was just random, clunky, and unearned. Plus, their interaction then was more about Kayla being the only, all-purpose doctor in Salem at the time. Brady better be careful. Gwen will drug and poison Chloe if she really sees her as any kind of threat.

The reference to "Aunt Kayla" just felt like another lame attempt to try and force the character of Gwen to mean something. They wrote Jack out, so now they are trying to use Kayla to give her a tie to someone, a reason to exist. Never mind the fact that Kayla has ONLY acknowledged Gwen's existence in relation to staunchly supporting Abigail and/or Jennifer AGAINST Gwen. Kayla has certainly never acknowledged her as her niece/family when she always did with Abigail and JJ. Hell, neither has Steve. But now Gwen is throwing out "Aunt Kayla" as if they have any sort of familial relationship. Like she actually GAF that Kayla is alive. It was just yet another clunky way to try and tie the character to someone important and relevant since Jack is no longer around to be used and abused to do that particular bit of heavy lifting. But I wouldn't put it past this show to ignore the past and pretend like Kayla, Steve, and Gwen are such close family now.