Past Seasons Talk: The Tribe Has Spoken

[KimberStormer]

46 minutes ago, Mark2 said:

I was just wondering if anybody here would like to share their opinion on what order you'd put these 16 seasons.  Obviously, I'm just requesting that any posts that quote this one not include spoilers.  I know virtually nothing about any, even who is on what season.  I was thinking I'd limit myself to only watching the best ones.

These are idiosyncratic selections indeed.  Many of them are generally beloved, and many of them are generally hated!  It's interesting and refreshing to get the perspective of someone not in the Internet echo chamber, although I can't agree with his choices.

I actually haven't seen a lot of them, or at least not the entire thing.  But what I have seen of them: Pearl Islands and Cook Islands are iconic seasons with extremely popular cast members.  Cambodia is my favorite of his list, everyone firing on all cylinders on that one.  Cagayan is a wacky season that I know is a top favorite with many, though I don't personally like it very much.  Game Changers is crazy but my guess is that it's not interesting unless you have seen the prior seasons the players are from.  For me, Redemption Island, Caramoan, and Worlds Apart are perhaps the three worst seasons ever, and HvHvH, Millenials Vs Gen X, and Ghost Island are also extremely poor seasons.  As for your ideas, Panama and Heroes Vs Villains are both amazing, must-sees in my opinion.  (The gender divide has nothing to do with what makes Panama good, though; if that's a factor you're interested in, I might recommend Amazon instead.)

As far as ones I haven't seen, I can say Samoa and All-Stars are both extraordinarily controversial, fanbase-dividing seasons, which got and still get people extremely het up online.  People are probably crawling out of the woodwork as I write this, people who haven't watched Survivor in five years, but the Bat-signal in the sky tells them that somewhere, someone has said something positive about Samoa and they must once again strap on their armor to begin the ancient fight once more.

My personal recommendation?  Watch China, Cook Islands, Panama, and Micronesia, in that order, and worry about the rest later.

Edited November 25, 2018 by KimberStormer

[SVNBob]

1 hour ago, Mark2 said:

This season is so good that I'm considering watching some of the many seasons that I didn't watch.  That's every single one from 3-36.

That's a lot of Survivor history, even with 2 seasons a year.  The game has gone through a lot of small changes over the years, both in how it is played (the game), and how it is presented (the show).

My immediate first reaction to someone saying they want to play catchup is to suggest watching everything, in chronological order.  That showcases the entire evolution of Survivor as it happened, just in a compressed timeframe (assuming binge-watching).   I'm also of the opinion that every season of Survivor is good on the first watch, with something in each to recommend about it.  It's only in re-watches that things can get iffy.

But, since you're looking for a highlight reel, and have some recommendations, I'll amend that reaction to focus on the lists.   Since you're wanting to avoid spoilers, there's a few seasons on the lists that I'll suggest avoiding for now, since they rely on having seen past seasons.  (I'll go into more detail below under a spoiler tag.)  Culling those spoilery seasons from all three lists (your friend's top tier and second tier, plus your "also-ran" picks) brings the list to 8 in total.  I'd still suggest sticking to chronological order, because the evolution process is still fascinating to watch, even in fits and bursts.

The amended list arranged chronologically with some of my thoughts:

• 7: Pearl Islands.  One of the first seasons driven by personalities, before that became the norm.  Still a classic example of Old-School Survivor.  Possibly the Survivor equivalent to the Tom Baker years of Doctor Who.  (Points to anyone that understands that reference.)
• 12: Panama.  The proper introduction of the Hidden Idol, and the prologue of the second school of Survivor.
• 13: Cook Islands.  I recently re-watched this season, and I think it's incredibly underrated by the community  The initial tribal divide is somewhat distasteful and casts this season in a bad light.  But getting past that, this is a season full of remarkable gameplay and memorable moments.  Highly recommended by me.
• 19: Samoa.  There's probably one reason why your friend couldn't recommend this one until looking it up.  Not going to say what that is, but if I'm right, I agree with that reason.  A season where the game changed again (to the third school), crystallizing a shift that began in the previous two seasons.
• 28: Cagayan.  "Decent" is a good word.  If there's an "average" season of Survivor, this would probably be it.
• 30: Worlds Apart.  Of all the seasons on this list, I'd actually recommend this one the least.  While I think there's good in every season, the bad in this one almost out-weighs it.  Not the fault of the game or gameplay though...
• 33: Millennials vs. Gen X.  "Interesting."  To say the least.  Lots of gameplay and strategy to watch here.
• 35: Heroes/Healers/Hustlers.  The beginning of the current school of Survivor.

 

 

Spoiler

As for these spoilery seasons, here's a glimpse of why I consider them spoilery.  

• 8: All Stars.  The first season with returnees.  This full cast of second-time players includes at least one representative from all the previous seasons.
• 20: Heroes vs. Villains.  Another full-returnee cast, with the initial divide based on their previous gameplay (with a question or two here and there...but you'd need to have seen them all to know which ones.)
• 22: Redemption Island.  This season grew out of an event that took place during the Reunion show of a previous season, and was coupled with a twist imported from the Israeli version of Survivor (among others).  One of the most polarizing seasons among Survivor fans.
• 26: Caramoan.  A half-returnee season, with all the returnees opining (in practically every episode) on how they need to play differently this time.
• 27: Blood vs. Water.  Another half-returnee season, with the other players all family members of the returnees, hence the theme.  A very good season indeed, with the theme actually playing a part in the game beyond the first few episodes.  And seeing the contrast between experienced players and players with vicarious experience is fascinating.
• 31: Cambodia.  Major Spoiler territory.  Every candidate in the audience selection poll was a former player, with the audience choosing their top 10 per gender.   I think it's a top-tier season with some very stand-out moments.  (Not sure what your friend is thinking here.)
• 34: Game Changers.  "The name pushed people to act differently."  Absolutely true.  One more full-returnee cast; some that did change the game, and others that needed to change their game.  Contains one of the most memorable events in recent Survivor history, and is one of the "best" examples of the plague that is Big Move Fever.
• 36: Ghost Island.  While a season with an all-new cast, the decisions of past Survivors throughout the history of the show affect this entire season.  I really recommend seeing all of 1-35 before watching this one.

[MissEwa]

2 hours ago, Mark2 said:

I was just wondering if anybody here would like to share their opinion on what order you'd put these 16 seasons.  Obviously, I'm just requesting that any posts that quote this one not include spoilers.  I know virtually nothing about any, even who is on what season.  I was thinking I'd limit myself to only watching the best ones.

 

2 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

My personal recommendation?  Watch China, Cook Islands, Panama, and Micronesia, in that order, and worry about the rest later.

 

This, although Pearl Islands is also good and stands alone - it was my first recommendation to someone in a similar position (came to the show at MvGenX, I think, and wanted recommendations to go back, very spoiler-averse). 

Your friend has given you a super-interesting list of seasons to watch, and one that I've never seen anywhere else. It's fascinating to me the difference in people's perceptions, and I'd kind of like to know more about what drove some of those recommendations! That said, of that list:

Pearl Islands is good, and a good starting point, as I've said above.

I like All Stars, but it's super-divisive.

I have a soft spot for Samoa for reasons that have nothing to do with the show (I got engaged there while they were filming it and everywhere we went people asked us if we were from Survivor) but it's not good.

The only reason to watch RI is if you've seen All Stars and Heroes Vs Villains and want more of a certain player. I like it, but I can't imagine coming to it cold.

Caramoan you couldn't pay me enough to watch again, and HvHvH is pretty lousy. 

Cook Islands is great.

I didn't like Blood vs Water, although it had its moments. 

Cagayan is often beloved but I hated it.

I liked Cambodia and MvGenX.

Game Changers I honestly can't remember and Ghost Island I did like a lot but I had to look it up to see if it was the one I was thinking of, so I don't know how memorable it is. 

Panama is fantastic, as is Heroes Vs Villains (IMO, it's divisive). Worlds Apart is worlds apart from them, in that it's the actual worst.

The problem I have recommending seasons when going back is that some of the ones I genuinely think are the best are returnee seasons, and so they a) generally play better if you've seen earlier seasons and b) will spoil earlier seasons for you, so if you don't want to be spoiled but think you might eventually watch most seasons, it tangles everything up.

With that said, and keeping things very vague, so as not to spoil anything, here's where I'd start (and how I'd go on):

As KimberStormer said: Panama, Cook Islands, China. All three are great stand-alone seasons and show a clear evolution of the game re. idols etc. You could then watch Fiji and Vanuatu - neither are great but they have their moments, but provide good background for Micronesia. THEN Micronesia, which is my favourite season and is great by most metrics. 

After that, Tocantins is a good stand-alone - a mostly likeable cast with a couple of very clear exceptions, but even they are vaguely entertaining at this point. The next big mostly-beloved-but-divisive returnee season is Heroes Vs. Villains. Pearl Islands, All Stars, Palau, Gabon and Samoa will all give you background into HvV so maybe watch them first. Of those, Pearl Islands is the best but All-Stars is maybe the most essential. Palau is interesting because of how it plays out. Gabon and Samoa are mostly skippable and only for completists.  

From there, it's patchy, and recommendations come harder. 

You can watch Redemption Island, or not - depending on how you're feeling and whether you're sick of a couple of players. 

I like One World, but the first few episodes are a lot to get through. 

Phillipines is fantastic, mostly, and a high-point for the 20-something seasons (IMO - mileage varies). As mentioned, people also like Cagayan (brains/brawn/beauty). 

I could go on, but it does get harder and harder. 

I will note that most of my recommendations ignore the earliest seasons. IMO, as someone who came to the show in S19 and then went back and watched most seasons, it's hard to go from "modern-day" Survivor back to those seasons. They're not worse, at all, but the game has changed and it's a shift in thinking. I did like Amazon though. And Guatemala (which is best watched after Palau, and is one of the most underrated seasons of the show, IMO). 

I hope that was more helpful than confusing! Happy watching! 

Edited November 25, 2018 by MissEwa
Edited to remove a huge chunk of unnecessary quote.

[RescueMom]

4 hours ago, Mark2 said:

Hi all...This season is so good that I'm considering watching some of the many seasons that I didn't watch.  That's every single one from 3-36.  I know a big fan of the show who has watched them all, and he recommends the following top seasons:

7. Pearl Islands.  He described this season as "forgettable" at first, but put it in the top when he looked it up.

8. All Stars.  "Decent"

19. Samoa.  Originally, didn't think it stood out until looking online.

22. Redemption Island.  "Good"

26. Caramoan (new vs prior players).  "Interesting"

35. Heroes/Healers/Hustlers.  "Unusual"

He also recommends:

13. Cook Islands (divided by ethnicity).  "Don't know what to say"

27. Blood vs. Water.  Enthusiastic about liking this one.

28. Cagayan (Brain/Brawn/Beauty).  "Decent" season

31. Cambodia (audience selection).  A good one, but nothing in particular stands out.

33. Millenials vs. Gen X.  "Interesting"

34. Game Changers.  "The name pushed people to act differently"

36. Ghost Island.  Having Ghost Island upped his interest factor.

I also thought 12/Panama (divided by gender), 20/Heroes/Villains and 30/Worlds Apart sound like interesting concepts, but they weren't on his list.  The problem is that he didn't remember them all well enough to really rate them relative to each other with any accuracy.  Hence the "top" group and runners-up. 

I was just wondering if anybody here would like to share their opinion on what order you'd put these 16 seasons.  Obviously, I'm just requesting that any posts that quote this one not include spoilers.  I know virtually nothing about any, even who is on what season.  I was thinking I'd limit myself to only watching the best ones.

I personally love these seasons:

1) Blood vs. Water (the original one) - this one has returning players and their loved ones. If someone made me pick a single favorite season, this one would be mine.

2) Millenials vs GenX - a really good recent all-newbie season

3) Heroes vs Villians - all returning players, incredible season.

4) I really liked Philippines (hope I spelled that right)

5) The first Fans vs Favorites (Micronesia)

Clearly this is subjective although I would guess many would agree with at least a few on that list as being really good seasons. I’m actually catching up on seasons I missed as well (I came late to Survivor, started with season 16), and am currently halfway through Pearl Islands. I wasn’t expecting to like it (there are a few people on it that I did not like in subsequent seasons), but I’m liking it a lot so far!!

[Mark2]

On 11/25/2018 at 12:46 AM, KimberStormer said:

These are idiosyncratic selections indeed.  Many of them are generally beloved, and many of them are generally hated!  It's interesting and refreshing to get the perspective of someone not in the Internet echo chamber, although I can't agree with his choices.

I actually haven't seen a lot of them, or at least not the entire thing.  But what I have seen of them: Pearl Islands and Cook Islands are iconic seasons with extremely popular cast members.  Cambodia is my favorite of his list, everyone firing on all cylinders on that one.  Cagayan is a wacky season that I know is a top favorite with many, though I don't personally like it very much.  Game Changers is crazy but my guess is that it's not interesting unless you have seen the prior seasons the players are from.  For me, Redemption Island, Caramoan, and Worlds Apart are perhaps the three worst seasons ever, and HvHvH, Millenials Vs Gen X, and Ghost Island are also extremely poor seasons.  As for your ideas, Panama and Heroes Vs Villains are both amazing, must-sees in my opinion.  (The gender divide has nothing to do with what makes Panama good, though; if that's a factor you're interested in, I might recommend Amazon instead.)

As far as ones I haven't seen, I can say Samoa and All-Stars are both extraordinarily controversial, fanbase-dividing seasons, which got and still get people extremely het up online.  People are probably crawling out of the woodwork as I write this, people who haven't watched Survivor in five years, but the Bat-signal in the sky tells them that somewhere, someone has said something positive about Samoa and they must once again strap on their armor to begin the ancient fight once more.

My personal recommendation?  Watch China, Cook Islands, Panama, and Micronesia, in that order, and worry about the rest later.

He was amused that his choices were apparently not influenced by the internet echo chamber :)

Pearl and Cook Islands are on the list, but I'm realizing how many hours this proposition could total lol, so I'm not committing to seasons above the teens yet.  More below...

On 11/25/2018 at 2:45 AM, SVNBob said:

That's a lot of Survivor history, even with 2 seasons a year.  The game has gone through a lot of small changes over the years, both in how it is played (the game), and how it is presented (the show).

My immediate first reaction to someone saying they want to play catchup is to suggest watching everything, in chronological order.  That showcases the entire evolution of Survivor as it happened, just in a compressed timeframe (assuming binge-watching).   I'm also of the opinion that every season of Survivor is good on the first watch, with something in each to recommend about it.  It's only in re-watches that things can get iffy.

But, since you're looking for a highlight reel, and have some recommendations, I'll amend that reaction to focus on the lists.   Since you're wanting to avoid spoilers, there's a few seasons on the lists that I'll suggest avoiding for now, since they rely on having seen past seasons.  (I'll go into more detail below under a spoiler tag.)  Culling those spoilery seasons from all three lists (your friend's top tier and second tier, plus your "also-ran" picks) brings the list to 8 in total.  I'd still suggest sticking to chronological order, because the evolution process is still fascinating to watch, even in fits and bursts.

The amended list arranged chronologically with some of my thoughts:

• 7: Pearl Islands.  One of the first seasons driven by personalities, before that became the norm.  Still a classic example of Old-School Survivor.  Possibly the Survivor equivalent to the Tom Baker years of Doctor Who.  (Points to anyone that understands that reference.)
• 12: Panama.  The proper introduction of the Hidden Idol, and the prologue of the second school of Survivor.
• 13: Cook Islands.  I recently re-watched this season, and I think it's incredibly underrated by the community  The initial tribal divide is somewhat distasteful and casts this season in a bad light.  But getting past that, this is a season full of remarkable gameplay and memorable moments.  Highly recommended by me.
• 19: Samoa.  There's probably one reason why your friend couldn't recommend this one until looking it up.  Not going to say what that is, but if I'm right, I agree with that reason.  A season where the game changed again (to the third school), crystallizing a shift that began in the previous two seasons.
• 28: Cagayan.  "Decent" is a good word.  If there's an "average" season of Survivor, this would probably be it.
• 30: Worlds Apart.  Of all the seasons on this list, I'd actually recommend this one the least.  While I think there's good in every season, the bad in this one almost out-weighs it.  Not the fault of the game or gameplay though...
• 33: Millennials vs. Gen X.  "Interesting."  To say the least.  Lots of gameplay and strategy to watch here.
• 35: Heroes/Healers/Hustlers.  The beginning of the current school of Survivor.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

As for these spoilery seasons, here's a glimpse of why I consider them spoilery.  

• 8: All Stars.  The first season with returnees.  This full cast of second-time players includes at least one representative from all the previous seasons.
• 20: Heroes vs. Villains.  Another full-returnee cast, with the initial divide based on their previous gameplay (with a question or two here and there...but you'd need to have seen them all to know which ones.)
• 22: Redemption Island.  This season grew out of an event that took place during the Reunion show of a previous season, and was coupled with a twist imported from the Israeli version of Survivor (among others).  One of the most polarizing seasons among Survivor fans.
• 26: Caramoan.  A half-returnee season, with all the returnees opining (in practically every episode) on how they need to play differently this time.
• 27: Blood vs. Water.  Another half-returnee season, with the other players all family members of the returnees, hence the theme.  A very good season indeed, with the theme actually playing a part in the game beyond the first few episodes.  And seeing the contrast between experienced players and players with vicarious experience is fascinating.
• 31: Cambodia.  Major Spoiler territory.  Every candidate in the audience selection poll was a former player, with the audience choosing their top 10 per gender.   I think it's a top-tier season with some very stand-out moments.  (Not sure what your friend is thinking here.)
• 34: Game Changers.  "The name pushed people to act differently."  Absolutely true.  One more full-returnee cast; some that did change the game, and others that needed to change their game.  Contains one of the most memorable events in recent Survivor history, and is one of the "best" examples of the plague that is Big Move Fever.
• 36: Ghost Island.  While a season with an all-new cast, the decisions of past Survivors throughout the history of the show affect this entire season.  I really recommend seeing all of 1-35 before watching this one.

Every episode ever is a bit more committed than I want to be :D but I am tempted to watch 1 again just to see how different the castaways, editing, even Jeff were at the beginning.  The original source of my list agrees that there really aren't any bad seasons, but I'm only willing to binge on the cream of the crop.

The spoiler thing is the reason for settling on watching in chronological order.  A forgettable reference in some "confessional" interview could give away an ending.  As mentioned elsewhere, I'm definitely planning to watch the bold seasons...but Worlds Apart is a little disappointing.  I studied Sociology (where Karl Marx is shoved down your throat), so that angle was interesting.  But the consensus seems to be to use that time elsewhere.  Your assessment of 33 is heartening though.

On 11/25/2018 at 2:49 AM, MissEwa said:

 

This, although Pearl Islands is also good and stands alone - it was my first recommendation to someone in a similar position (came to the show at MvGenX, I think, and wanted recommendations to go back, very spoiler-averse). 

Your friend has given you a super-interesting list of seasons to watch, and one that I've never seen anywhere else. It's fascinating to me the difference in people's perceptions, and I'd kind of like to know more about what drove some of those recommendations! That said, of that list:

Pearl Islands is good, and a good starting point, as I've said above.

I like All Stars, but it's super-divisive.

I have a soft spot for Samoa for reasons that have nothing to do with the show (I got engaged there while they were filming it and everywhere we went people asked us if we were from Survivor) but it's not good.

The only reason to watch RI is if you've seen All Stars and Heroes Vs Villains and want more of a certain player. I like it, but I can't imagine coming to it cold.

Caramoan you couldn't pay me enough to watch again, and HvHvH is pretty lousy. 

Cook Islands is great.

I didn't like Blood vs Water, although it had its moments. 

Cagayan is often beloved but I hated it.

I liked Cambodia and MvGenX.

Game Changers I honestly can't remember and Ghost Island I did like a lot but I had to look it up to see if it was the one I was thinking of, so I don't know how memorable it is. 

Panama is fantastic, as is Heroes Vs Villains (IMO, it's divisive). Worlds Apart is worlds apart from them, in that it's the actual worst.

The problem I have recommending seasons when going back is that some of the ones I genuinely think are the best are returnee seasons, and so they a) generally play better if you've seen earlier seasons and b) will spoil earlier seasons for you, so if you don't want to be spoiled but think you might eventually watch most seasons, it tangles everything up.

With that said, and keeping things very vague, so as not to spoil anything, here's where I'd start (and how I'd go on):

As KimberStormer said: Panama, Cook Islands, China. All three are great stand-alone seasons and show a clear evolution of the game re. idols etc. You could then watch Fiji and Vanuatu - neither are great but they have their moments, but provide good background for Micronesia. THEN Micronesia, which is my favourite season and is great by most metrics. 

After that, Tocantins is a good stand-alone - a mostly likeable cast with a couple of very clear exceptions, but even they are vaguely entertaining at this point. The next big mostly-beloved-but-divisive returnee season is Heroes Vs. Villains. Pearl Islands, All Stars, Palau, Gabon and Samoa will all give you background into HvV so maybe watch them first. Of those, Pearl Islands is the best but All-Stars is maybe the most essential. Palau is interesting because of how it plays out. Gabon and Samoa are mostly skippable and only for completists.  

From there, it's patchy, and recommendations come harder. 

You can watch Redemption Island, or not - depending on how you're feeling and whether you're sick of a couple of players. 

I like One World, but the first few episodes are a lot to get through. 

Phillipines is fantastic, mostly, and a high-point for the 20-something seasons (IMO - mileage varies). As mentioned, people also like Cagayan (brains/brawn/beauty). 

I could go on, but it does get harder and harder. 

I will note that most of my recommendations ignore the earliest seasons. IMO, as someone who came to the show in S19 and then went back and watched most seasons, it's hard to go from "modern-day" Survivor back to those seasons. They're not worse, at all, but the game has changed and it's a shift in thinking. I did like Amazon though. And Guatemala (which is best watched after Palau, and is one of the most underrated seasons of the show, IMO). 

I hope that was more helpful than confusing! Happy watching! 

I'll try to post more on his behalf if he's up for it, but spoilers make that more of an as-I-watch thing.  At this point I'm into it more than him (but won't be watching every season) so that may not take long.

As to HvV, All Stars and RI, I'm guessing they feature Russell and/or Boston Rob.  I learned of their multiple appearances, but thankfully don't know exactly what seasons.

I'm surprised that you didn't like Blood vs. Water based on how much the person I know seemed to like it, but HvV is one that I'm definitely planning to watch.  Your mention has at least the first episodes of Fiji and Vanuatu on my list.  I'm on the fence about Gabon and Samoa, and ironically am planning to start from the beginning and judge if or how many to watch in the 20s and 30s. 

On 11/25/2018 at 4:29 AM, RescueMom said:

I personally love these seasons:

1) Blood vs. Water (the original one) - this one has returning players and their loved ones. If someone made me pick a single favorite season, this one would be mine.

2) Millenials vs GenX - a really good recent all-newbie season

3) Heroes vs Villians - all returning players, incredible season.

4) I really liked Philippines (hope I spelled that right)

5) The first Fans vs Favorites (Micronesia)

Clearly this is subjective although I would guess many would agree with at least a few on that list as being really good seasons. I’m actually catching up on seasons I missed as well (I came late to Survivor, started with season 16), and am currently halfway through Pearl Islands. I wasn’t expecting to like it (there are a few people on it that I did not like in subsequent seasons), but I’m liking it a lot so far!!

The bold ones are most appealing based on others' opinion too, but actually all of your 5 seem like good options to watch, barring any kind of survivor fatigue.  Looks like we're in the same boat, you're just ahead of me!  Did you start all the way back at 1 and watch through 7?

Thanks all for the feedback!

The consensus seems to be that Pearl Islands is the first season (chronologically) to watch, but with @KimberStormer's suggestion of Amazon (the gender divide does pique my interest, in part because Jeff is on record saying it will never happen again), I think I'll at least watch the premiere of that one.  Whether or not I watch it all, based on recommendations I think I'll watch Pearl Islands, All Stars and Panama all the way through...perhaps with a stop over on (at least) the first episode of Vanuatu.  Then come to a decision later on the seasons in the mid-teens and beyond.

[Eolivet]

Wow, the initial list may be the first one I've ever seen without Heroes vs Villains. I feel like HvV has a lot more resonance if you watch in order from season 1, but I consider it the quintessential Survivor season of all-time -- the characters, the game play -- it's a classic. I'd call it the perfect introduction to Survivor, except then everything else is basically downhill. I don't understand a Survivor world where HvV isn't a top 10 or a top 5 or a top 3 season, but I suppose that's personal taste.

I like @RescueMom's choices. Philippines is just wonderful, and I recently heard Millennials vs Gen X summed up as, "great characters, good season" -- which I found pretty accurate. And I love Pearl Islands. You have some great choices!

Just a warning, having recently rewatched All Stars. Even as someone who loves it ... parts of it have not aged well. Sometimes, Survivor is good at sort of existing outside of the zeitgeist (I was impressed at how self-aware Cook Islands was), but prevailing attitudes towards women and sexual minorities have changed considerably since 2004. There are still some iconic moments -- "stack of greenbacks" remains a cringe-worthy classic, and that reunion show would've blown up Twitter, had Twitter existed -- but it sort of reminds me of the musical, "Hair" in that it probably loses something to see it years later, out of context of the time. Still worth watching because of the characters, though.

Anyway, I'll be curious to read your thoughts.

[RescueMom]

1 hour ago, Mark2 said:

 

The bold ones are most appealing based on others' opinion too, but actually all of your 5 seem like good options to watch, barring any kind of survivor fatigue.  Looks like we're in the same boat, you're just ahead of me!  Did you start all the way back at 1 and watch through 7?

No, I’ve been watching a bit sporadically - I have been buying the seasons on DVD, and some of the older seasons are really cheap and some are not, so I usually buy one of each at a time. Once I’m out of cheap ones I’ll fill the rest in in order. Weird system but it’s working for me. I pretty much know who wins each season and a lot of the highlights from reading the forums all these years and watching the return seasons, but I’m finding I still enjoy them a lot. Which surprised me, because I never read spoilers of a current season.

I hope you have as much fun watching the old ones as I am having!

[cleo]

I'm curious when people say the old school started here, the second school here, the third here, etc. I watch the seasons very sporadically and with a bad memory to boot so I'm terrible with that kind of analysis. Where does it come from? I guess I'd be interested in reading about it as I watch/rewatch but I'm not aware of any resource except RHAP. Or is it just generally the result of fandom debate/ analysis online?

Sorry if this is a dumb question!

Edited November 27, 2018 by cleo

[SVNBob]

6 hours ago, cleo said:

I'm curious when people say the old school started here, the second school here, the third here, etc. I watch the seasons very sporadically and with a bad memory to boot so I'm terrible with that kind of analysis. Where does it come from? I guess I'd be interested in reading about it as I watch/rewatch but I'm not aware of any resource except RHAP. Or is it just generally the result of fandom debate/ analysis online?

Sorry if this is a dumb question!

First of all, this is not a dumb question.  Questions asked out of genuine curiosity or a desire to understand something are never dumb.  In hindsight, they may seem simplistic and/or silly (as might the answers once known and understood), but not dumb.  The only dumb questions are ones asked out of sarcasm or for comedic effect.

Second, the bolded is the part of the most likely answer.  Those of us that watch more regularly and remember more about Survivor can better trace and track the changes between Borneo and now.  And most of us have opinions on how to divide those changes in to "eras" or "schools".  But the lines between those changes aren't always the same for everyone...and sometimes they're even blurry for a given individual.  (That's a fun thing about fandoms: ask 10 people the same question, you can get 11 different answers.)

Here's how I generally divide them, with my mostly spoiler-free reasoning behind why I cluster those seasons together.

• 1-10: "Old School."   Where the game began and was the simplest.
• 11-16: "Idol School." The Hidden Immunity Idol is introduced, changing game strategy to this day.
• 17-27: "Character School."  The biggest change to the show of Survivor, with more of a focus on "characters" rather than "people".
• 28-34: "Theme School."  The themes started taking precedence over the characters ("As a [Blank], I feel...".)  Even moreso once Fiji became the permanent filming location.
• 35-37: The current "New School."  Centered around the change to how the F4 becomes the F3.  Still has lots of elements of the previous school.

Now I do not claim this as the definitive list, as this is just my own opinion and may not match up with anyone else's thoughts.  But, I think it is a good starting point for discussion.  There can be arguments made for sub-dividing any of my groupings, combining some, doing both simultaneously, or just moving a season or two here and there into a different group.  I'll admit to making changes on the fly as I was writing this.  And reasonable arguments have a very good chance of making me revise this list.

So in the end, the "schools" of Survivor are mostly a matter of individual opinion.  There's probably a few changes that every Survivor fan could agree on as turning points that "define" a change of school (like the HII, for example), but there's nothing official or universal.  (Hell, I'd even wager that there's a non-zero number of Survivor fans that would count each season as a separate school of Survivor, and that idea has as much merit as my list above.)  Nor is it a requirement to think about Survivor in terms like this.  Some of us do, and it's a fun line of thought for us to go down; same as for those of us that analyze the edits, or think about the animal archetypes.  But you don't have to think along any of those lines if you don't want to.

[Lamb18]

On 11/25/2018 at 12:09 AM, Mark2 said:

I was just wondering if anybody here would like to share their opinion on what order you'd put these 16 seasons.  Obviously, I'm just requesting that any posts that quote this one not include spoilers.  I know virtually nothing about any, even who is on what season.  I was thinking I'd limit myself to only watching the best ones.

I started watching Survivor at season 25 Philippines and it hooked me. The draw was a contestant who had been on a sitcom years before and I wanted to see how this person would be on the show. This season has a good mix of characters and the winner is surprising, at least to me. When I rewatched it earlier this year I could see more of the winner's edit but it still was not obvious.

If you like seeing wild animals, season 3 Africa is a good one to watch. I liked the season in general but the animals made it more special to me.

Blood vs. Water

Spoiler

(Natalie Anderson won this one?-whichever one she won)

and Second Chances

Spoiler

(Jeremy won)

should be watched in this order. Both are good.

[cleo]

6 hours ago, SVNBob said:

Here's how I generally divide them, with my mostly spoiler-free reasoning behind why I cluster those seasons together.

• 1-10: "Old School."   Where the game began and was the simplest.
• 11-16: "Idol School." The Hidden Immunity Idol is introduced, changing game strategy to this day.
• 17-27: "Character School."  The biggest change to the show of Survivor, with more of a focus on "characters" rather than "people".
• 28-34: "Theme School."  The themes started taking precedence over the characters ("As a [Blank], I feel...".)  Even moreso once Fiji became the permanent filming location.
• 35-37: The current "New School."  Centered around the change to how the F4 becomes the F3.  Still has lots of elements of the previous school.

Thanks @SVNBob, much appreciated. I can see there's lots of ways to think about it. I didn't even consider the introduction of themes, or things like that, I always focus on all the comments about strategy changing. And on Jeff becoming more annoying over time lol. I did notice in Amazon Jeff started narrating the challenges more whereas I remember him mostly being silent before, especially 1 and 2. 

[MissEwa]

21 hours ago, Mark2 said:

I'm surprised that you didn't like Blood vs. Water based on how much the person I know seemed to like it, but HvV is one that I'm definitely planning to watch.  Your mention has at least the first episodes of Fiji and Vanuatu on my list.  I'm on the fence about Gabon and Samoa, and ironically am planning to start from the beginning and judge if or how many to watch in the 20s and 30s. 

 

To be honest I'm now trying to remember if I did like Blood Vs Water? I remember absolutely loathing the concept, and then being pleasantly surprised at the execution, and then being increasingly frustrated as the winner became apparent. I just googled it and I can honestly remember two moments from the entire season, and one of those was a silly line from a bootee confessional. 

I think there's just a period post-Phillipines (which I loved) where none of the seasons made much of an impression on me. Everything between Caramoan to Kaoh Rong either blends into one, or I outright dislike it (Worlds Apart, Cagayan). I don't even think it's a quality thing, so much as maybe a case of personal Survivor burnout. I can't even discuss those seasons without googling them and even then I'm like... huh? That happened? 

11 hours ago, SVNBob said:

Here's how I generally divide them, with my mostly spoiler-free reasoning behind why I cluster those seasons together.

• 1-10: "Old School."   Where the game began and was the simplest.
• 11-16: "Idol School." The Hidden Immunity Idol is introduced, changing game strategy to this day.
• 17-27: "Character School."  The biggest change to the show of Survivor, with more of a focus on "characters" rather than "people".
• 28-34: "Theme School."  The themes started taking precedence over the characters ("As a [Blank], I feel...".)  Even moreso once Fiji became the permanent filming location.
• 35-37: The current "New School."  Centered around the change to how the F4 becomes the F3.  Still has lots of elements of the previous school.

Now I do not claim this as the definitive list, as this is just my own opinion and may not match up with anyone else's thoughts.  But, I think it is a good starting point for discussion.  There can be arguments made for sub-dividing any of my groupings, combining some, doing both simultaneously, or just moving a season or two here and there into a different group.  I'll admit to making changes on the fly as I was writing this.  And reasonable arguments have a very good chance of making me revise this list.

This is so interesting - thank you! My division is a lot cruder (pre-idol/post-idol/post-post-idol - which is hard to explain but the point where it went from just idols to whatever advantage or twist the producers could think of, thrown at the wall in desperate hope that something would stick) but I like the break-up taking into account how the seasons are cast/edited as well as gameplay and strategy.

I'm trying to work out if there are more purely gameplay-based schools. I know there's a commonly-held view that Rob C "evolved" the alliance-based gameplay in Amazon, and then of course when Idols came in that changed again. Then I think there has recently been a shift to 'big move'/'building a resume' gameplay, but it's been more of a slow evolution than a series of definitive shifts. 

[Eolivet]

On 11/27/2018 at 9:02 AM, Lamb18 said:

Blood vs. Water

That's San Juan Del Sur, based on the spoilered content. One of my favorite seasons ever, and I don't think it gets nearly enough love. It suffers in general Survivor fandom by coming after Cagayan, which I can't freaking stand -- so anything was going to be good after that -- but I adored this season. I do agree on watching that prior to Second Chances/Cambodia.

[MissEwa]

4 hours ago, Eolivet said:

That's San Juan Del Sur, based on the spoilered content. One of my favorite seasons ever, and I don't think it gets nearly enough love. It suffers in general Survivor fandom by coming after Cagayan, which I can't freaking stand -- so anything was going to be good after that -- but I adored this season. I do agree on watching that prior to Second Chances/Cambodia.

San Juan Del Sur is Blood Vs Water 2, which was all newbies. The original Blood Vs Water was ten returnees and their loved ones. 
 

Spoiler

Tyson won. 

[jumper sage]

On 11/25/2018 at 3:45 AM, SVNBob said:

• 7: Pearl Islands.  One of the first seasons driven by personalities, before that became the norm.  Still a classic example of Old-School Survivor.  Possibly the Survivor equivalent to the Tom Baker years of Doctor Who.  (Points to anyone that understands that reference.)
• 12: Panama.  The proper introduction of the Hidden Idol, and the prologue of the second school of Survivor.
• 13: Cook Islands.  I recently re-watched this season, and I think it's incredibly underrated by the community  The initial tribal divide is somewhat distasteful and casts this season in a bad light.  But getting past that, this is a season full of remarkable gameplay and memorable moments.  Highly recommended by me.
• 19: Samoa.  There's probably one reason why your friend couldn't recommend this one until looking it up.  Not going to say what that is, but if I'm right, I agree with that reason.  A season where the game changed again (to the third school), crystallizing a shift that began in the previous two seasons.
• 28: Cagayan.  "Decent" is a good word.  If there's an "average" season of Survivor, this would probably be it.
• 30: Worlds Apart.  Of all the seasons on this list, I'd actually recommend this one the least.  While I think there's good in every season, the bad in this one almost out-weighs it.  Not the fault of the game or gameplay though...
• 33: Millennials vs. Gen X.  "Interesting."  To say the least.  Lots of gameplay and strategy to watch here.
• 35: Heroes/Healers/Hustlers.  The beginning of the current school of Survivor.

Thanks @SVNBob - Mr. Sage just got on board last episode and wanted to watch all the seasons on Hulu but season 1 is so bad.  This is a nice "doable" list.

Just got home from work and ran in the door.  Mr. Sage had my PJs ready and dinner sitting in front of the TV.  It's nice to have someone to discuss and watch the show with.  I don't know anyone else who watches it.

[Lantern7]

Mario from Funny115 has been taking time off to recharge. He did update his home page, where Angelina briefly appears.

[loki567]

I figure Mario would adore Angelina. Nothing he loves more than a well-edited character who is completely oblivious to the feelings and opinions of their fellow cast members. Might be too late for Angelina to make it on the current 115, but I won't be shocked if she cracks top ten on the next one. 

Hell, Natalia and Natalie might join her high on that list. 

[Eolivet]

I had absolutely no idea where to put this (it's not media, it's sort of finale-based, but not really?). My husband attended the CBS post-finale party, and the only non-David vs Goliath people he recognized (after some prompting from me back home) were Adam and Jay from Millennials vs Gen X. He met them both, and said they were both very nice. My husband was mainly focused on finding David vs Goliath people, but he said he'd occasionally spot both of them hanging out by the bar, talking to other people or each other.

Still, as we work through "who's most likely to remain close after the season ends" in the episode thread, I'm not sure many people thought two years ago that those two would be inseparable (and roommates in LA), two years later.

[Bubbetv]

I’ve not been in This thread before because the former seasons are mostly blended in my memories. Would someone help me know what season was the Blue Collar/white Collar/No collar gimmick? Thanks!

[TVFan1]

34 minutes ago, Bubbetv said:

I’ve not been in This thread before because the former seasons are mostly blended in my memories. Would someone help me know what season was the Blue Collar/white Collar/No collar gimmick? Thanks!

That was Season 30 known as Survivor: Worlds Apart.

[Eolivet]

In "honor" of Joe returning to Edge of Extinction to fulfill the "chill hipster dude challenge threat" archetype, I present my ranker of notable "chill hipster dude challenge threats" in recent years. Note I am excluding Ozzy, because he's sort of the prototype, and I have to believe is done after four times:

Malcolm

-

-

-

-

-

Jay (Millennials vs Gen X)

Alec (David vs Goliath)

-

-

Joe

-

Sebastian (Ghost Island)

Edited February 21, 2019 by Eolivet

[peachmangosteen]

Mine's probably Alec - Malcolm - Jay - Sebastian - Joe, but I don't give a shit about any of them besides Alec tbh

[NutMeg]

On 11/25/2018 at 9:49 AM, MissEwa said:

And Guatemala (which is best watched after Palau, and is one of the most underrated seasons of the show, IMO). 

@Mark2, I'm late here and was going to add Guatemala, which I see @MissEwa already did. It's a great season, with a very interesting cast, and also one of the few that's land based, in a Mayan area no less, so it has a very different vibe than most just based on this.

On 2/21/2019 at 4:30 PM, Eolivet said:

In "honor" of Joe returning to Edge of Extinction to fulfill the "chill hipster dude challenge threat" archetype, I present my ranker of notable "chill hipster dude challenge threats" in recent years. Note I am excluding Ozzy, because he's sort of the prototype, and I have to believe is done after four times:

Malcolm

-

-

-

-

-

Jay (Millennials vs Gen X)

Alec (David vs Goliath)

-

-

Joe

-

Sebastian (Ghost Island)

I've never understood why Malcolm is included in that category, except for the most superficial of reasons, his look and long hair. As I see it, he's really playing the game, on all planes (strategic, social, physical), while the Ozzy archetype and his later avatars (Joe, mostly, that guy Erik of the stick, maybe) don't, really, or if they do, it's with lukewarm success at best. Malcolm only looks the part, it's not who he is!

[Eolivet]

19 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

As I see it, he's really playing the game, on all planes (strategic, social, physical), while the Ozzy archetype and his later avatars (Joe, mostly, that guy Erik of the stick, maybe) don't, really, or if they do, it's with lukewarm success at best. Malcolm only looks the part, it's not who he is!

But Malcolm is a chill hipster dude who's good at challenges. That's not just physical characteristics, but his character type -- it says nothing about his strategic acumen (which is actually the point of my ranker).

The point is not all of these types are created equal (although my main point is -- if you wanted to bring back a chill hipster dude who's good at challenges, why choose Joe when Malcolm exists).

My point is if I must suffer a chill hipster dude who's good at challenges, at least give me one with a brain in his head. To me, Malcolm is by far the most well-rounded and the biggest triple threat, but to me, both Jay and Alec showed flashes of better strategic and social games than Joe has. And all three of them are sitting on the sidelines, while we get Joe for a third time.

[NutMeg]

Ah, @Eolivet, but while Malcolm is good at challenges, he's not been the creative physical beast that a Joe or an Ozzy can be. And mostly, I don't see him as a "chill hipster dude", which is mostly where you and I differ :D. I see him as a slightly nerdish person who being wrongly typecast as a chill hipster dude 😁

[LadyChatts]

On 11/25/2018 at 3:49 AM, MissEwa said:

And Guatemala (which is best watched after Palau, and is one of the most underrated seasons of the show, IMO). 

4 hours ago, NutMeg said:

@Mark2, I'm late here and was going to add Guatemala, which I see @MissEwa already did. It's a great season, with a very interesting cast, and also one of the few that's land based, in a Mayan area no less, so it has a very different vibe than most just based on this.

I'm so happy to see Guatemala get some love!  I have always found that season to be underrated.  It's like TPTB just skip from Palau to Exile Island and forget it even existed.  I don't understand how no one from that season has ever been brought back (and I don't count Stephenie, as she's a Palau transplant).  Judd and Jamie were both underappreciated villains.  And the location alone makes me long for the days when Survivor actually traveled to different locales, instead of just putting down roots in Fiji and have to come up with stupid themes because they can't just call the season after the location.  That season is one that I went through a roller coaster of feelings each episode.  

Of course one of the all time greatest moments was Gary Hawkins, the landscaper, whose identity was foiled by the sports caster from Kansas.  And since I didn't like Stephenie, seeing her losing streak continue was sweet (between Palau, her losses on Guatemala, and HvsV, I'm thinking it's her that brought the bad luck to her tribes).

Edited February 22, 2019 by LadyChatts

[NutMeg]

4 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I'm so happy to see Guatemala get some love!  I have always found that season to be underrated.  It's like TPTB just skip from Palau to Exile Island and forget it even existed.  I don't understand how no one from that season has ever been brought back (and I don't count Stephenie, as she's a Palau transplant).  Judd and Jamie were both underappreciated villains.  And the location alone makes me long for the days when Survivor actually traveled to different locales, instead of just putting down roots in Fiji and have to come up with stupid themes because they can't just call the season after the location.  That season is one that I went through a roller coaster of feelings each episode.  

Of course one of the all time greatest moments was Gary Hawkins, the landscaper, whose identity was foiled by the sports caster from Kansas.  And since I didn't like Stephenie, seeing her losing streak continue was sweet (between Palau, her losses on Guatemala, and HvsV, I'm thinking it's her that brought the bad luck to her tribes).

Not only were there good villains, there were also heroes, like cowboy hat Brandon, Cindy the zookeeper, Margaret the nurse, Amy the cop, many more interesting professions, a magician assistant, a golden boy 😁, dehydrated beefcakes while so called weak females were mighty fine (hard to watch, but with all the talk about the young buff guys of course being stronger than a 40 year old woman that I'm reading in the episode thread, I couldn't resist), good sarcastic characters, etc.

About Stephenie being bad luck, I'm pretty sure someone said that about her in a latter season, must have been HvV, or was she in another one I'm forgetting?

[LadyChatts]

1 hour ago, NutMeg said:

Not only were there good villains, there were also heroes, like cowboy hat Brandon, Cindy the zookeeper, Margaret the nurse, Amy the cop, many more interesting professions, a magician assistant, a golden boy 😁, dehydrated beefcakes while so called weak females were mighty fine (hard to watch, but with all the talk about the young buff guys of course being stronger than a 40 year old woman that I'm reading in the episode thread, I couldn't resist), good sarcastic characters, etc.

About Stephenie being bad luck, I'm pretty sure someone said that about her in a latter season, must have been HvV, or was she in another one I'm forgetting?

That was James who brought up Stephenie being bad luck.  Funny thing is, when I did a re-watch of Guatemala recently, Stephenie was in a challenge and constantly talking over people and trying to take charge.  It reminded me of the HvsV second IC that the Heroes lost, and James yelling at Stephenie for talking over JT (who had done the challenge in his previous season).  He was all 'one voice!'  I get what he was saying now.  Even Jeff brought it up to Stephenie after consecutive challenge losses during Guatemala and asked Steph if she thought she was bad luck.  

And yes, Guatemala overall had a very good, entertaining cast.  I loved Brian, who I really wish had been given a second chance.  He was a gamer, and had he made the merge I would have liked to have seen what he could have done.  Bobby Jon was one of my first Survivor crushes, and I loved how he and Jamie went at it a couple of times.  And I thought they had some good challenges that season, too (there was one where Farmer Brandon totally blew Jamie out of the water-and even when the challenge was over Jamie walked around bewildered like 'are we gonna finish?').  

[NutMeg]

Brian!!! I was thinking of him and trying to remember his name, you're right, he was one I would have liked to see again too.

I'm with you on Bobby Jon too 🙂 The way his relation with Jamie evolved was very interesting and is not often seen. Also, it was so nice to see him finally on a tribe that could win after the miser feast he went through in Palau!

And of course, there was Danni, who was an absolute joy to watch.

[Lantern7]

Funny115 returns with the story of Chaos Kass. Turns out she was a huge fangirl, and she enjoyed not giving a fuck. And Mario loves her for it.

[SVNBob]

From another thread, but this particular discussion/ramble/wall-of-text belongs here.  This was originally prompted by talk of what would happen if someone on the current season (EoE) who found an HII got voted off without using said idol first.  In relation to that, I had talked about the only time something remotely close to that happening; South Pacific and Ozzy asking his tribe to vote him to RI, but first giving the HII he'd found to Cochrane for safe-keeping.

On 3/4/2019 at 8:16 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

Didn't Ozzy's (stupid) plan basically work, except for Cochrane flipping after the merge?   

Sort of.  But since there was a major point or two of failure in each phase of the plan, it was doomed like JT's Idol Pass.

The Lead-Up (a summary):

On Savaii were the aforementioned Ozzy (on game 3) and Cochran (game 1 (and sweater vest 1)).  On Upolu was Benjamin (also on game 3) and Christine (also game 1).   From Hour 1, Christine was vocally opposed to the presence of both returning players.  Benji targeted her for that; making her the first Upolu boot and 2nd RI resident.  After doing that, Benji became a "cult leader"/god-botherer, including leading regular prayer circles.  While on RI, Christine became a challenge beast, defeating and eliminating every other person to set foot on RI; all the while scowling at the Upolu members that were permitted to watch the Duels (not RBF; ABF: Active Bitch Face.).  Meanwhile, nonathletic and socially awkward Cochran was getting shit on by the entire Savaii tribe...mainly by his polar opposite, Ozzy.  But there were always bigger threats to vote out on that side.  So Cochran was safe, but on the bottom (which he knew) and running out of places to hide.  Once each tribe was down to 6, plus Christine on RI, Ozzy assumed the merge was close and whomever was on RI was about to return.  That's when he came up with -

The "Plan":

Ozzy wanted to be sure the numbers were equal at the merge, so he came up with the idea of

1. Sending a strong competitor and willing volunteer from Savaii to RI to defeat Christine. 
2. Said player would then return to the game and the Savaii alliance to keep the numbers at 6-6.
3. Savaii could then either use Ozzy's idol or force a tie, or both, to eliminate an Upolu and take control at the merge. 

The Play-Out

Savaii lost the next IC due to weak-link Cochran blowing their lead.  Back at camp, Ozzy revealed his HII, then told them about his plan; volunteering to be one voted out to make sure Phase 1 happened as planned.  As part of this, Ozzy gave Cochran the HII at TC, but not before teasing that he'd play it instead, and send Cochran to RI instead.

At the Merge Duel, Challenge Beast Christine was bested by Challenge God Ozzy, and he did return to the game right away.  Cochran returned the HII, the Ozzy went on to win the male half of the first IIC.  At that TC, Ozzy wasted his idol by playing it on Whitney, while both tribes stuck to original lines on the first vote.  On the revote though, Cochran flipped to Upolu, sending Keith to RI.   He was followed by the rest of Savaii, with Cochran as the last one; leaving an Upolu F6 and Ozzy eking by on RI.

The Analysis of The "Plan:

Like I said, each phase of the plan had at least one point where it could fail, if not more.  Phase 1 relied on two things to happen: a) Christine losing the Duel, and b) the three groups; Savaii, Upolu, and RI, merging right afterwards.  While Ozzy had stacked the deck by having himself be Christine's opponent, it wasn't necessarily a sure thing for him to win.  She had been a challenge beast herself, and with the right challenge, she could have taken him out.  See Sophie later in the same season for proof of that. 

Barring that possible misstep, there was no guarantee that the merge was about to happen.  This was the major flaw in Phase 1 that everyone else on Savaii and even Peachy at TC pointed out to Ozzy.  If the merge hadn't been at this point, there would have been another tribal IC, with Upolu up in numbers and Savaii without their strongest competitor.  While Phase 1 was successful and did happen as he anticipated, this whole step was a risky gamble on Ozzy's part.  

Based on it being his plan to begin with, once Phase 1 was successful, Phase 2 was also automatically successful when Ozzy rejoined with Savaii.  But here's the major flaw in this phase: it was totally unnecessary.  The point of the plan was to ensure Upolu didn't go into the merge ahead on numbers.  But there was no possible way that Christine was going to join the Cult of Upolu if she had returned.  She was their first boot; voted out Day 5.  She'd spent more time on RI alone than with Upolu.  And as her ABF showed, she detested them; Benji most of all.  The triple-returnee that was responsible for her getting voted out in the first place?  She'd flip on his ass in a nanosecond, and the numbers would have been 6-6; just like Ozzy wanted.  And she would have been more reliable than Cochran, whom would have been voted out had Ozzy not volunteered, and she for sure would have beaten him at a Duel.  She was a guaranteed number for Savaii at the merge, and Ozzy came up with a plan to get rid of her.  (Now, he may have thought she wouldn't work with him either due to her comments about not wanting either returnee around.  But I'm sure she would have backtracked on that if it meant getting revenge by putting Benji on RI first.)

Phase 3 is the part with the obvious failure point that was brought up in the quote at the start of all this.  When your plan relies on the person on the bottom of the alliance being a double agent but staying true to the alliance they know they're on the bottom of, you're really screwed.  Doubly so if the plan includes going to rocks (which this one did), and the low man repeatedly states that they're not comfortable with that.  But there was a simple way around that: Ozzy could have given Cochran the necklace he'd won at the IC.  That would have exempted Cochran from rocks, and he would probably have stuck with the devils he knew.  Plus there would have been a bonus of Upolu getting a very tempting vote target in Ozzy, who had an idol in his pocket.

Admittedly, doing that would have spoiled the story Savaii were trying to sell about there being bad blood between Cochran and the rest of them because he'd idoled Ozzy out.  But (and this is the biggest reason I call this plan stupid; even moreso than it being unnecessary in the first place), when BENJI can pull his head out of his own ass long enough to see through your BS, dictate the "plan" point for point to your "mole", then make him a better offer which includes revenge for all the shit dumped on him pre-merge?  They weren't buying anything Savaii was selling anyway.

Which means that the whole thing adds up to a stupid plan.  Parts of it did work as planned, but those parts were either unreliable or unnecessary.   And the major flaw should have been obvious even to Ozzy.  But he was as proud of this plan as he was his plan to throw a challenge to boot Billy in CI, or his fake idol from FvF (which was only ever going to fool the one person), so he was blinded by his own "brilliance".  Sufficed to say, Ozzy got extremely lucky he got allied with Becky and Yul when he played the first time.  Their strategic abilities overwhelmingly made up for his deficiencies.

[Nashville]

Nice to see somebody else besides me likes to overanalyze the everlovin’ shit outta things.  😄

[Lantern7]

You mean this?

[Nashville]

Exactly!  Us overanalysts are a much-maligned and seriously misunderstood group.  😄

[Eolivet]

7 hours ago, SVNBob said:

when BENJI can pull his head out of his own ass long enough to see through your BS, dictate the "plan" point for point to your "mole", then make him a better offer which includes revenge for all the shit dumped on him pre-merge?

Sorry, this was almost an exact plot point on Australian Survivor, so I had to stop for a minute to remember this was also Coach's name. (with Brian/Monika in Cochran's role, Mat in Ozzy's, and Benji as ... Benji. Minus Redemption Island, of course).

[Bryce Lynch]

9 hours ago, SVNBob said:

Admittedly, doing that would have spoiled the story Savaii were trying to sell about there being bad blood between Cochran and the rest of them because he'd idoled Ozzy out.  But (and this is the biggest reason I call this plan stupid; even moreso than it being unnecessary in the first place), when BENJI can pull his head out of his own ass long enough to see through your BS, dictate the "plan" point for point to your "mole", then make him a better offer which includes revenge for all the shit dumped on him pre-merge?  They weren't buying anything Savaii was selling anyway.

I think South Pacific was one of the first seasons I watched all the way through.  Since I hadn't seen any of Tocantins and just a bit of HvV, I wondered why everyone thought Benji was such a douchebag, as he was relatively undouchey, that season.  Recently, I watched Tocantins on Amazon, and now I understand perfectly. :) 

[Eolivet]

Hey guys, want to be somewhat depressed? A season ago on David vs Goliath, the episode airing tonight (second post-merge boot) had the epic "Davids share all their advantages" scene, Angelina's "If I was a man, they'd have listened to me" confessional, and the #BrochachoBlindside that was only marginally foreshadowed in the episode.

In other words, a classic hour of television this season hasn't come close to replicating.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, Eolivet said:

Hey guys, want to be somewhat depressed? A season ago on David vs Goliath, the episode airing tonight (second post-merge boot) had the epic "Davids share all their advantages" scene, Angelina's "If I was a man, they'd have listened to me" confessional, and the #BrochachoBlindside that was only marginally foreshadowed in the episode.

In other words, a classic hour of television this season hasn't come close to replicating.

Well, the minority alliance will have 3 idols in tonight's episode, so we might see some similar fireworks.  Of course, nobody will actually get voted out, just sent to EOE, so that would reduce the drama. 

[LadyChatts]

4 hours ago, Eolivet said:

Hey guys, want to be somewhat depressed? A season ago on David vs Goliath, the episode airing tonight (second post-merge boot) had the epic "Davids share all their advantages" scene, Angelina's "If I was a man, they'd have listened to me" confessional, and the #BrochachoBlindside that was only marginally foreshadowed in the episode.

In other words, a classic hour of television this season hasn't come close to replicating.

Also worth noting that this time last year I actually knew everyone in the cast.  This season I’m still trying to figure out who Eric is, and only remember Gavin because he reminds me of a discount Nick/Donathan with the same fashion sense as Zeke when it comes to shirts. Otherwise has he said anything?  And I’m lost on the rest of kama, but from what little I have seen of that tribe I find them obnoxious.  I hope another tribe never dominates pre merge again.  Season 1 was great because it was literally Tagi lost, Pagong lost, Tagi lost, Pagong lost all the way to the merge.

[Artymouse]

I didn't read through all 34 pages of this thread, so I apologize if my question has already been addressed. I'm watching the current season because I'm a newspaper reporter covering one of the contestants who is from our market, but prior to this, I'd only seen a couple episodes of the first season.

I'm really enjoying it, even though lots of fans say it's a pretty dull season. I'd like to go back and watch previous seasons, and they're now on Hulu, so that's possible. What two or three seasons would be the best places to start to get a real feel for the game and the strategy and that kind of thing? I don't want to go all the way back to season 1 since I know basically what happened then. But where should I begin if I'm going to watch the old seasons?

[KimberStormer]

31 minutes ago, Artymouse said:

What two or three seasons would be the best places to start to get a real feel for the game and the strategy and that kind of thing?

I always say, China first.  It's not the best season, but it's a very good season, and I think it's the most archetypal season, that most closely fits the way Survivor seasons in general go.  So if it sets your expectations you'll understand how the game normally works and what to look for.  And you get Courtney!

I find above my advice to newbies, and I still agree with it:

On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 10:46 PM, KimberStormer said:

My personal recommendation?  Watch China, Cook Islands, Panama, and Micronesia, in that order, and worry about the rest later.

[treeofdreams]

Micronesia

Cook Islands

Fiji

[Runningwild]

Micronesia Fans vs. Favorites is one of the best seasons but they didn’t have Hidden Immunity Idols then. Cook Islands is a great season and introduced some of my favorite castaways. But again- no HIIs.  

Cagayan is interesting (and has HIIs) but the winner is one of my least favorites. So far, to me, a decent parallel with Wardog. 

Edited April 19, 2019 by Runningwild

[SVNBob]

3 hours ago, Runningwild said:

Micronesia Fans vs. Favorites is one of the best seasons but they didn’t have Hidden Immunity Idols then. Cook Islands is a great season and introduced some of my favorite castaways. But again- no HIIs.  

There were Hidden Idols in both of these seasons.  Famously, in fact.

Cook Islands was the second season with the Hidden Idol, and it was still overpowered at the time (aka the Super Idol, or the Tyler Perry Idol).  Yul Kwon found it on his visit to Exile Island on Day 4.  He was later able to use it to protect his entire minority alliance.

Fans vs Favorites also had a Hidden Idol on their Exile Island.  But that season is more remembered for a fake idol that the person that found the real one made.

[KimberStormer]

Micronesia and Cooks both had idols!  Cooks had the broken Tyler Perry idol though.

I think Micronesia is better watched after some of the seasons the Favorites came from, so that's why I put it last on my little list.  It is The Best, but it's all the better with a little history.

[LadyChatts]

Guatemala was the first season with the idol, and even if you didn’t want to watch the whole season, I’d recommend watching the idol related episodes alone.  It’s like the blind leading the blind.  No one knew what to make of the idol or where to even begin looking.  Judd got a clue as part of a reward as to where the idol was, and he tried convincing everyone it was buried in the ground.  Gary caught him one day looking up in the trees, so he assumed rightfully that the idol was in a tree.  He found it, and the idol actually had to be played before the vote that season.

[fishcakes]

2 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Judd got a clue as part of a reward as to where the idol was, and he tried convincing everyone it was buried in the ground.

Even without getting caught looking up in the trees, he was so bad at that! "The idol is definitely, by far, on the ground." LOL.

[MissEwa]

4 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Guatemala was the first season with the idol, and even if you didn’t want to watch the whole season, I’d recommend watching the idol related episodes alone.  It’s like the blind leading the blind.  No one knew what to make of the idol or where to even begin looking.  Judd got a clue as part of a reward as to where the idol was, and he tried convincing everyone it was buried in the ground.  Gary caught him one day looking up in the trees, so he assumed rightfully that the idol was in a tree.  He found it, and the idol actually had to be played before the vote that season.

Agreed. It's really great to see the evolution of the idol, and watching poor stupid Judd screw it up was awesome. Except I would actually recommend all of Guatemala - it's a good solid season with a pleasantly surprising winner and it doesn't get nearly enough love IMO. 

[Lantern7]

Funny115: Tina tries to play matchmaker, Katie slowly dies.

[Nashville]

22 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Funny115: Tina tries to play matchmaker, Katie slowly dies.

Be SURE to check out the contained link to Katie’s AMA on Reddit.  😄