20/20

[Wings]

COS training is no different than self help books, therapy or any tool to being the best you can be.  There is no avenue that changes our personality to a large degree.  Knowing she needs help with some things I consider lesson learned.  Knowing when to reach out for help is key in negotiating life. 

[Kromm]

I find it fascinating and horrifying.  You know Tom Cruise is not privy to everything that goes on and probably thinks defectors are lying.  I hold hope that there is a collapse in the future.  

I don't think you intend it as such, but that comes off like excuse making for Cruise. 

 

He's been in the inner circle for so long, even if we project some circumstance where he disbelieves every outside report, every defector, there's what he's been in a position to see himself, what's been done on his own behalf, and what logic should tell anyone.

 

He may not have seen workers in dirty hotels, for example, but he's seen tons of slave labor scurrying around the corners of Gold Base when he visits, acting like the world's most demented band of hoteliers, making sure everything is perfect for "Tom".  Or in the distance, while he marches to and from his helicopter, groups of people being disciplined with the kind of stuff Jenna Miscaviage talked about--where they make them haul rocks around the camps all day.  And while unlike Remini he came into Scientology already famous--ergo never was threatened with Rehabilitiation--it's hard to believe what's involved in that could be totally hidden from someone in the religion for several decades. 

 

I interpret Cruise's situation as him being a 100% willing and knowing co-conspirator with Miscaviage, with little to no ignorance. He's treated like an Emperor, and that's fine with him. What happens to little people around him doesn't matter. He can play Mr. Friendly Nice Guy on set with people because they move in orbits where being seen as such helps him. Usually they're also famous, or even just coming up in the business, so they're assets to him. The people already enmeshed in Scientology are just tools, who he can just ignore.  And he does, letting Miscaviage and his top people be the heavies for him.

[Wings]

Oh god no!!  I did not intend on making any excuse for Tom!  I see how that looks though.  Oy

 

My thought was if Cruise became disenchanted and wrote a book or vocally denounced the church he would have a larger audience than other defectors thus the guarded bubble. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by wings707

[Maharincess]

I have to say, I'm very much looking forward to Fridays episode. As far as I know this is the first interview from any of the Columbine shooters parents.

All these years later and her face is still covered with pain. I could see the pain in her face in the commercial.

I know that so many people blame the parents and in some ways, I can see that but I can't imagine being in that kind of position. The pain, guilt and shame this poor woman must still feel would be overwhelming. Knowing that the entire world hates the one that you loved the most would be so hard.

I'm looking forward to reading her book.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Maharincess

[CaughtOnTape]

I live in Littleton.  I went to Chatfield (The school that the Columbine students went to while the school was being repaired).  I have been in Columbine's library more times than I can count.  I now live less than a mile from the school and I walk, run or drive past it every day.  I knew two of the kids that died because I knew their older siblings.  Kelly's sister worked where I did and I was the one that told her what school it was when she walked into the break room to see it on TV.  I will never forget the look on her face.

 

It never gets easier to see this discussed.  Even hearing the word Columbine makes me emotional.  Seeing the shots of the kids running out of the school that day is still the most heartbreaking thing in the world for me.

 

I don't want to feel bad for Susan Klebold, but I do.  When it first happened I was so angry with her.  My mother was up my ass in high school and it was unfathomable to me that she didn't know what was going on with her son.  However after having grown up a little and having mental health issues effect my own family, I see now that it's not that cut and dry.  Being blind to the fact that someone you love is in that much pain is easier than you'd think.

 

I look forward to hearing what she has to say.  I cannot imagine.

[Spartan Girl]

I watched the special with Susan Klebold, and....I have no words. I respect the fact that she was honest; she admitted that there were some things that she overlooked because she didn't think they were a big deal at the time, and that there was more she could have done. It took a lot of courage to come forward and say that. It's just a horrible situation for everyone involved.

And it's not like she was the Sandy Hook shooter's mother, who kept a bunch of guns in the house despite knowing her son had mental problems. Now that was just irresponsible. I wonder what she would have had to say for herself if her son hadn't killed her too.

From the way the documentary told it sounded like Eric Harris was the one that fit the bill for a sociopath. But his parents "couldn't be reached" either.

[irisheyes]

Last night's episode was so powerful. My heart just broke for that mom. I can't imagine what the years have been like for her. She lost her son, but she can't grieve like the other parents since he was one of the killers. I don't blame her. She raised her son the best she knew, and there were probably thousands of parents like her who were worried about their kids, yet only her kid ended up being a mass murderer. Parenting is freaking hard, and she didn't do anything WRONG as a parent. She just missed the signs. But, in 1999, no one was thinking kids could be school shooters.

A couple of years ago, I read the book Columbine. It's a fascinating read, and the author concludes that Eric Harris was a psychopath while Klebold was suicidal and depressed and was convinced by Harris to go out in "a blaze of glory." Reading about Harris was legitimately terrifying. If he hadn't shot up Columbine, he would have easily become a serial killer.

Edited February 13, 2016 by irisheyes

[Morbs]

Why did Diane Sawyer end it with, "We will continue to reach out to survivors." Leave them alone!  They clearly do not want to talk.

 

It's not that difficult for a teenager to have a secret life away from his parents.  I have a lot of sympathy for her.  She's one of the victims.  I think there's so much about the human brain we just don't understand yet, and his mental illness was greatly enhanced by his friendship with Eric so they ended up feeding on each other.  With my own depression, I feel like my brain can make me actually feel good about being depressed, it's easier to check out of life, lay in bed, watch TV, feel safe while thinking about suicide.  So if I don't keep it in check, I can sink lower and lower.  It's a tough thing to admit your thoughts and feelings aren't reality.

[CaughtOnTape]

I'd venture a guess that the reason the Harris' don't talk is because 9 times out of 10 their kid is given the majority of the blame for what went down.  And while I'm aware he was a psychopath, I don't think he influenced Dylan to do shit.  The videos of them stalking through the school with guns drawn like they were on some goddamn military exercise tells me what I need to know.  Dylan's face in those shots is downright evil and without feeling.  I don't give a shit what his journals said vs. what Eric's said.  They planned it together.  He was no victim.  Dylan was a willing participant and I will never accept the suggestion that he was just some poor depressed kid who probably just needed some Prozac and he would've been ok.

 

Nope.   

 

I doubt anything they'd say would make anything better.  It's one thing to not know your kid is depressed and suicidal, it's entirely another to not know he wants to destroy the entire world.  What could they say?  The minute anyone reads Eric's journal or gets any idea what's in them and immediately anything they say is discounted as them being delusional or flat out lying.  The one shocker for me was the rapist thing.  I'd never heard that before.  I mean I knew he was a psychopath so rapist shouldn't have shocked me, but I didn't realize he gave a shit about girls much less fantasized about raping them.  

 

The scariest part about Eric was that he was in therapy.  He'd been tagged as an issue and yet NO ONE caught on that he was that far gone.  So it's kind of hard to just blame his parents.  The entire system failed that kid, not just his parents.  The therapist, the school, the cops...no one caught on that he was anything more than some moody teenager.  

Edited February 14, 2016 by CaughtOnTape

[JudyObscure]

This woman has nothing to feel guilty about. She did all the standard things that experts tell us make for a better childhood, she got married before getting pregnant, she and her husband provided a nice home in a safe neighborhood, they set a good example of decent, normal values.

People on the ABC site are blaming her for not snooping in her son's room and I think it's just knowledge after the fact. I used to keep my door locked all the time to keep my brothers out and I was doing nothing worse than reading gothic romances while pretending to do homework. Teens like privacy.

Sadly, this is a wide world of influences today. It's not just the parents who have influence on the child but movies, TV, the internet, school teachers, sports figures and a dozen other things. If we think our child is totally under our control and that we can keep him from going down the wrong path because we hover over him constantly and snoop in his room, we're dreaming. His father and I thought we were keeping our son from becoming a smoker by not doing it ourselves. Now he, disgustingly, dips tobacco because all his baseball heroes did it.

[backformore]

I agree, Judy O. Even if someone had picked up that Eric was a psychopath, what could be done? We do not lock people up for what the MIGHT do, and therapy, psych meds are voluntary. A therapist can see the potential for violence, but unless a person makes a specific threat, a diagnosis or thoughts and fantasies are confidential.

Parents can see that kids are withdrawn , Moody, even obsessed with various things. But when a mom looks at her son, she still sees the baby, the little boy, she sees the almost adult through her maternal filter. It's very difficult for a mother to look at her child and see evil, even if everyone else does.

And yes, parents have a huge influence on kids, but other forces take over in the teen years. Teenagers look outside the family for influence on how to think. Some teenagers go through a weird oppositional phase where they not only question their parents' morals and beliefs, they adopt beliefs that are opposite to what they have been taught. And the majority of those teens get through that and turn out Ok.

Sometimes, people do horrible things because of how they were raised. And sometimes, people do horrible things, and it's not so easy to figure out why. It's easy to have hindsight and say someone should have prevented a tragedy. But the reality is different.

[ButterQueen]

This woman has nothing to feel guilty about. She did all the standard things that experts tell us make for a better childhood, she got married before getting pregnant, she and her husband provided a nice home in a safe neighborhood, they set a good example of decent, normal values.People on the ABC site are blaming her for not snooping in her son's room and I think it's just knowledge after the fact. I used to keep my door locked all the time to keep my brothers out and I was doing nothing worse than reading gothic romances while pretending to do homework. Teens like privacy.Sadly, this is a wide world of influences today. It's not just the parents who have influence on the child but movies, TV, the internet, school teachers, sports figures and a dozen other things. If we think our child is totally under our control and that we can keep him from going down the wrong path because we hover over him constantly and snoop in his room, we're dreaming. His father and I thought we were keeping our son from becoming a smoker by not doing it ourselves. Now he, disgustingly, dips tobacco because all his baseball heroes did it.

I agree with everything you posted. IMO, the two experts added nothing but 20/20 hindsight to the show. I feel very sorry for the mom -- she is a victim herself. I do not believe she did anything wrong.

[ChristmasJones]

For those interested in the issues raised in this recent episode with Dylan Kleibold's mother, here are some links to articles you might find interesting.... dealing with the topics of the psych history of such individuals, the effect on and response of family members of shooters, and the efforts that are being made to prevent these.

 

Oh, and in regard to the issue of him being in therapy and the therapist missing it- the Kip Kinkel case is a good case study on that topic. Frontline did an episode on him, and you can read many documents including the psychiatric records on their site, as well as watch the episode here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/kinkel/

 

Here is Mary Ellen O'Toole's document on school shooters referenced in the 20/20 episode: https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/school-shooter

FBI active shooter report: http://www.scribd.com/doc/240970283/FBI-Active-Shooter-Report

 

Nova video Inside the Mind of a Rampage Killer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MXEcB4vBkA (I believe this has at least one interview with the parent of a school shooter)

 

Interview with Adam Lanza's father and an NPR piece about that interview:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/03/17/the-reckoning

http://www.npr.org/2014/03/13/289815818/6-interviews-1-reckoning-sandy-hook-killers-dad-breaks-silence

 

Summary report on Adam Lanza case (good overview of psychiatric/behavioral history): http://www.ct.gov/oca/lib/oca/sandyhook11212014.pdf- and same with Virginia Tech shooting: https://web.archive.org/web/20131015095917/http://www.governor.virginia.gov/TempContent/techPanelReport-docs/FullReport.pdf 

 

If you only read one of these links, I'd recommend this one- an exceptional article on what is going on behind the scenes to prevent mass shootings: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/09/mass-shootings-threat-assessment-shooter-fbi-columbine (This is one of the very few articles I've been able to find that gets past the simplistic "mental health treatment" vs "gun control" debate that most media coverage falls into - after reading it, I began to genuinely feel that these incidents are preventable)

 

Another good article from The New Yorker about how school shootings are spreading: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/19/thresholds-of-violence

 

Last... a very interesting article about a mass shooting/bombing that was prevented due to a random person noticing someone walking near her backyard and she thought something seemed "off" - http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/03/us/minnesota-foiled-school-massacre-john-ladue/index.html(this is a great read, and makes you realize that its important for all of us to pay attention to people around us and to take action if we notice something that seems concerning).

 

 

 

 

 

[Soobs]

No one wants to think that you can do everything right as a parent and your kid still might end up a mass murderer. I really don't see how it could have been prevented. They were too good at leading their double life.  I felt nothing but sympathy for her. If I had been in her shoes I would have disappeared into a convent or something. The social shame would have been too much. I applaud her for trying to help others. I do think there was more going on with Dylan than just depression. He seemed like a lost kid who got suckered in by a true psychopath but to do what he did, his anger was off the charts too. It would be great if schools would teach kids how to accept rejection in all it's forms, in a healthy way.

[ElleBee]

Terry Gross had an interesting interview with the mother on "Fresh Air" this week. She gave some more background into what was going on with her son at the time, as well as talking about some of the aftermath. They mentioned that a psychologist had determined that Dylan was more suicidal and Eric was more homicidal--which is a dangerous, and apparently somewhat common, combination in dual mass shootings. She's very well-spoken and doesn't make excuses, which IMO speaks to her character. (I can't stand parents who, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary, have nothing but rationalizations and justifications as to why their "baby" never could have done anything wrong.) 

 

http://www.npr.org/2016/02/16/466618817/sue-klebold-mother-of-columbine-shooter-carries-him-everywhere-i-go-always

[CaughtOnTape]

She can't make excuses.  She still lives here.  She'd be crucified.  As it is, some of the survivors did grant statements to local news outlets about her interview and while they don't seem to blame her, the going feeling seems to be wondering why it took her so long.  I just think she needed to work it out in her head.  She needed to get to that point where she could feel comfortable loving her son even though he did a terrible thing.

 

Anne Marie Hochhalter wrote her a note on Facebook the night before the interview that was very well spoken and nice.

 

It's been 17 years and it's still very raw around here.  Every time a school shooting (or any mass shooting really) happens or the gun debate rages, it brings it all back for these families and for the community as a whole.  It is very hard to hear about these kids wanting to emulate Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.  Every April 20th is a tough day in this city for anyone who was living here when it happened.  

 

BTW ChristmasJones thank you for those links.  That article about Adam Lanza was terrifying.  Two parents who seemingly were doing everything they could to help their son and he still did the unthinkable.  

[ChristmasJones]

BTW ChristmasJones thank you for those links.  That article about Adam Lanza was terrifying.  Two parents who seemingly were doing everything they could to help their son and he still did the unthinkable.  

 

I'm glad to hear that you found them interesting.  I have a huge collection of bookmarks on true crime. It seems to be an obsession I can't get rid of!!!

 

As to the Adam Lanza and Kip Kinkel cases - the similarity between those is that in both cases the child was known to have a mental health disorder (Adam's being far, far beyond Kip's), and in each family, the parents decided to buy guns for their children and take them to shooting practice, and did not appear to think that firearms should be secured and inaccessible to their teen boys.  The kid in Roseburg, OR had a similar family dynamic.

 

Elliott Rodger and James Holmes were older, and at that stage of life where they were moving out on their own. Both of those kids also had known histories of mental health problems, but the families never realized that either of them had interest in guns or the capability to purchase the guns and ammo they needed.

 

One thing seems clear to me- at the very least, if you have a family member with any sort of mental health issues, or even just someone who is going through a stressful time, you need to remove the weapons from the home and just not make that available.

 

There is no perfect solution, but I think Adam's case and the kid in Oregon are good examples of the parent not being tuned in enough to see that their kid should not be shooting guns.

 

Interview with Sue Klebold: https://schoolshooters.info/my-conversations-sue-klebold

 

Story of a man who turned his son into the FBI for bomb-making - https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/07/13/adams-man-charged-connection-with-alleged-terror-plot/v3fGrcmdc03Bzh0xl8skGL/story.html?p1=Article_Related_Box_Article

[Scout Finch]

Elliot Rodger was also completely delusional. I read his chilling (and very long) manifesto/life story, and was stunned to discover that there was literally not one time in his life where he asked a girl out or was therefore rejected by one. He was an entitled narcissist who thought that a girl should somehow know he was interested and make the first move. He killed his Asian roommates because one of them had an attractive, Caucasian girlfriend; Rodger could not comprehend how "ugly" minorities could get "white girls."

Edited February 18, 2016 by Scout Finch

[walnutqueen]

So last night we saw another example of Daddy's little girls defending him even after he was convicted of murdering their mother.  It seems to occur quite frequently - what is it about these daughters?

[ElleBee]

So last night we saw another example of Daddy's little girls defending him even after he was convicted of murdering their mother.  It seems to occur quite frequently - what is it about these daughters?

 

I don't get it either, but it must be because their mother's already gone and if their father is convicted, suddenly they have no parents. Hard to step into other people's shoes, but I'm certain if there was overwhelming evidence that one of my parents had killed the other, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I supported the killer, even if that essentially left me an orphan.

Edited February 20, 2016 by ElleBee

[walnutqueen]

I sometimes wonder if a guy diabolical enough to murder his wife isn't also diabolical enough to subtly "groom" his daughters to turn against their own mother and side with him.

 

In this case, Mom was the breadwinner, so Dad presumably spent more time with his two younger impressionable daughters ...

[hoosiermom]

I think "impressionable" is the key word here. As adults and not emotionally tied to these people, it's much easier for us to see the truth. Not to say this was not a heart wrenching story. That guy was a real pig for lack of a better word.

[irisheyes]

This happened 10 miles from where I lived. I didn't remember the murder (but that was the same time my daughter was born, so I was distracted), but I did follow the trial. He's a total creep, and I hope the daughters can reconnect with their mom's family.

At least the dad will feel totally comfortable surrounded by cameras 24/7. I can't imagine living like that.

[ari333]

Wow so there are 21 cams and on the very night that Nicki goes missing and ends up dead... two days of vids are missing. HOW CON"VEEN"IENT. [church lady voice here]  They did mention that dad "isolated his two daughters" after their mom's death.   

[Medicine Crow]

Speaking of pigs...this guy has pig eyes - cute on pigs, not attractive on humans. I almost gagged when his ex-wife, during her testimony, described his eyes as beautiful. She's a weirdo.

No kidding, right?  I thought he was very unattractive, in every way.  When his ex-girlfriend was "making eyes" at him, I thought "Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder" & there's no accounting for taste.

[UsernameFatigue]

When they first started playing the tapes of the husband and wife arguing I said to my husband "He is setting her up". He was talking very calm and cool which of course made her all the madder. It would me too. In the end he wasn't too bright though. Geez, he call the cops so she can't leave the house with her bags packed. But then when she supposedly DOES leave, without taking anything with her (other than a toothbrush - apparently no toothpaste even) he doesn't tell anyone for two days?

 

I said to my hubby that I am constantly amazed at these shows (I am addicted to true crime shows). It amazes me how often people who kill random strangers get away with leaving no clues whatsoever. But people like this guy make huge mistakes. He says she left on her own - nude? And there are no marks on her feet, indicating she was carried? At least dress her and drag her feet to make it look like she may have left on her own.

 

So sad how he brainwashed the kids into making the youtube videos, right down to telling them what to say. But I suppose he had a few years to brainwash them before he got arrested, and he was all they had. I hope they eventually see the light and reconnect with their older sister.

Edited February 22, 2016 by UsernameFatigue

[ari333]

He sounds so fake and insincere in those tapes in which she was screaming. I suspected him for sure when I heard that. It was something in his voice and word choice. I cant recall the exact quotes that red flagged me. I think he planned to kill her  back at the time he called cops that she was leaving. He wanted to establish a pattern as in, "See? See how she runs away? " so the next time that  she "goes missing" (gets murdered) LE will say, "yeah she runs off like that. She has a history." GACK

Edited February 22, 2016 by ari333

[UsernameFatigue]

The father certainly has those two girls under his thumb, even from jail. Not only does he have them repeating on YouTube word for word what he has told them to say, in one of the recorded conversations one of the girls answers "Yes sir" to his instructions. Who in this day and age calls their father 'sir'? Obviously he controlled them as much as he controlled his wife, and in their case still very much does. What a POS.

[ari333]

The father certainly has those two girls under his thumb, even from jail. Not only does he have them repeating on YouTube word for word what he has told them to say, in one of the recorded conversations one of the girls answers "Yes sir" to his instructions. Who in this day and age calls their father 'sir'? Obviously he controlled them as much as he controlled his wife, and in their case still very much does. What a POS.

 

Yes. That was chilling... and sad.

[Medicine Crow]

What the hell were they doing with Diane Sawyer on that piece about El Chapo????  Gawd, I thought I was going blind ... switching from the actress, sharp as can be, to Diane, shades of BaWa.

[ari333]

Was Diane  having an off day? We all have them. yikes.

[Medicine Crow]

Was Diane  having an off day? We all have them. yikes.

The interview was fine but "her camera" seemed like it had the silk/vaseline treatment like BaWa used to do the last few years of her "career".  Just sayin'.

[ari333]

The interview was fine but "her camera" seemed like it had the silk/vaseline treatment like BaWa used to do the last few years of her "career".  Just sayin'.

YES! and it reminded me of Cybill Shepherd's  filter too.

[Medicine Crow]

Maybe it's just my TV, but even before Mexican actress got all weepy, I was focused on her bloodshot eyes and wondered it she'd been dipping in El Chapo's weed stash.

Her eyes were red when she started the interview -- it was the first thing I noticed.  But maybe the beginning of the interview wasn't really (due to editing).

[ari333]

I hope I got the title right. Did anyone see this? Bizarre.

[walnutqueen]

Another rerun.  I wasn't captivated the first time I saw it.

[stillhere1900]

What Nationality are those guys ?  I've seen this docu before. I have a lot of questions about the mother who allowed this happen, like how was the rent paid on a 4 bdrm  apt in NY ?  There were 8 people living there with only one parent working. Why didnt she ever call her family ? Did she agree with her husband ? Was she abused ?  One scene showed her outside jogging.

 

She never told anyone about her life ?

Edited March 26, 2016 by stillhere1900

[ari333]

I was puzzled as to why child services wasn't involved. ANd what happened to the sister?

 

Our DVR listed this as new Sorry for the repeat. I had not seen it before.

[Wings]

I watched this when it originally aired.  There has been very little on this story other than this and a smattering of shows like ET doing a short spot on it right after it aired the first time.  You would think it would have gotten picked up by someone and more interviews done, more investigating.  Not because laws were broken but the human interest part of it and possible movie.  Nothing.  Something is fishy.  We are not getting the entire story.  IIRC, the boys negotiated life outside their apartment with uncommon ease.  

[walnutqueen]

The "documentary" smells, as does the story.

 

Reminds me of Alaskan Bush People - I couldn't even watch one episode of that.

Edited March 26, 2016 by walnutqueen

[ari333]

I watched this when it originally aired.  There has been very little on this story other than this and a smattering of shows like ET doing a short spot on it right after it aired the first time.  You would think it would have gotten picked up by someone and more interviews done, more investigating.  Not because laws were broken but the human interest part of it and possible movie.  Nothing.  Something is fishy.  We are not getting the entire story.  IIRC, the boys negotiated life outside their apartment with uncommon ease.  

 

I felt something odd too. I wondered how they got those awesome jobs after being captive all their lives. Of course, maybe someone heard their story and wanted to make an exception and help by hiring them. There is still something missing here . SO the 15 yr old ventured out one day, landed in the hospital,  and ...welp... that's it for dad's weird rules. Er-body do whatever now. .

The "documentary" smells, as does the story.

It seems documentary chick lady who randomly met them would have contacted  child services. MAybe I missed something.

 

AND WHERE"S THE SISTER?

I feel I may sound bitchy to say this, but here goes. Did anyone else find it odd that they had 10,000 DVD movies? Even at a junk sale they are 50 cents or a dollar each. And all those costumes. Ok, they used oat meal boxes (they said) but that is still a lot of tape and paint and glue... that is not free. And all the black suits..... they are in public housing. Am I missing something yet again?

And I did not know that moms get paid for home schooling.

[woodscommaelle]

Aren't there 7 siblings? We don't know where the sister is but shouldn't there be one more boy in The Wolfpack?

Didn't they say the father had the only key and they couldn't get out of the house without it? How'd the one brother get out then?

Not one child needed a doctor (or a trip to the emergency room) in all their lives?

Like most are saying, something is missing from this story.

[Mannahatta]

This whole story was beyond odd. There were so many strange aspects to it that weren't addressed at all. I watched with increasing anger at how the story of a father imprisoning his family - while nobody noticed - was glossed over in favor of the supposedly uplifting tale of "Movies saved their lives!". How did this father get this level of control? Was the abuse just psychological or physical too? Weren't there any legal consequences for this father? If he is that paranoid wouldn't there be cause for concern for the family members still living with him? What was the "rare genetic disorder" that the sister had? (I think she was shown sitting with the mother in the back of the SUV, when they went to see the mother's side of the family.) Also, I could see the mother getting paid to home school another person's children but not to teach her own kids. And how alarming is it that these boys still view their sad sack mother as a hero. While I wish that family luck, it irks me that the reporter didn't seem to question anything. Glad to see that at least on this site common sense prevails. Rant over - now I feel better. ;)

[Madding crowd]

I've read several articles on this story and they all point out discrepancies. The pack live in low income housing in a four bedroom apartment in NY. What low income housing has four bedrooms? Then how did the dirt poor family afford 10,000 DVD's. That is at least $10,000 worth of movies, probably way more. They also change stories about whether they were or were not allowed out. Sometimes they say they were allowed out occasionally and sometimes say never. They also were totally comfortable in getting around the city, using buses and subways etc. So everything is not on the up and up. And why would a father who refuses his kids to ever leave, allow cameras in to the home? 

[AnnieBeez]

SO many questions, so I watched the documentary on Netflix. I still have SOOO many questions. 

[Wings]

20/20 and other shows like it dredge the pond looking for a story  There is nothing in this piece that reads as true and I think they knew it.  Doesn't matter to them, it filled the hour, was cheap to tape and got people talking.  

[One Tough Cookie]

Did anyone watch last night's episode with the mom who "shot herself in the head" on NYE?  Husband was a CO in a local prison.  Four years after the death he was brought to trial and before the verdict was read I FELL ASLEEP.  Can anyone give me the ending?

[walnutqueen]

Did anyone watch last night's episode with the mom who "shot herself in the head" on NYE?  Husband was a CO in a local prison.  Four years after the death he was brought to trial and before the verdict was read I FELL ASLEEP.  Can anyone give me the ending?

 

The jury found him not guilty.

[One Tough Cookie]

Thanks.  I honestly don't know whether or not I could have convicted or not.  I'll have to watch this on ID when it airs and pay more attention.  And not at night!

[Enero]

Thanks.  I honestly don't know whether or not I could have convicted or not.  I'll have to watch this on ID when it airs and pay more attention.  And not at night!

I fell asleep as well. The episode just wasn't very engaging. That said, I do question the husband's behavior. His devastation over her being shot and then dead didn't seem genuine at all. Still from what I saw I couldn't decide whether it was suicide or murder.