20/20 - General Discussion

[Wings]

The only thing I respect about Kirstie is her children aren't famewhores. I don't think I've ever seen pictures of them, and she doesn't drag them out and parade them when she has something to promote, like most celebs do. I looked on Wikiedia, and their birth dates, occupation/college, or anything personal is absent. Only their names are listed.

  I've always thought the opposite. Bella always shunned the limelight, never famewhored, and just got a cosmetology degree. Connor seems to be treated as the heir to the "church". There's that incredibly creepy picture of Tom in the throne chair, flanked by Miscavige and Connor. And while I believe that Miscavige has duped Cruise into thinking he's his right hand man, I don't doubt that Cruise thinks he and Connor are the heirs. Connor has also embraced celebrity and is frequently seen in high profile moments with his father, and uses his celebrity to get jobs as a DJ.

 

Thanks! I don't know anything about them. This was Leah's observation at the time of his wedding.  That was 9 years of so ago.  Those kids are probably treated like royalty and have never experienced anything bad at the hands of the church.  I am sure they are privileged and love the attention and life they lead. 

Edited November 14, 2015 by wings707

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

My heart just breaks for Nicole Kidman over what the church did to her and her two children with Tom Cruise, not to mention CoS engineering the breakup of their marriage.

I am glad Katie and Suri were able to get out relatively unscathed, but really.....Suri seems to have lost a father here to Scientology, so I am sad for her as well. At least she isn't going to be raised in the cult though.

I remember reading that Connor & Isabella called Katie "mom" and called Nicole by her first name, which she hated. They seemed very close with Katie. I imagine that they have essentially lost their mother(s) twice because of Scientology - the church engineered their estrangement from Kidman and then they lost Katie when she left. I think Bella at one time worked for the clothing company Katie had founded with a friend (Holems & Yang, maybe?) and that she even lost her job or had to quit once Katie divorced Tom. I'm 110% positive Katie is labeled an SP by CoS and that the older Cruise kids can have nothing to do with her or their sister Suri. One day, when they eventually leave the church (fingers crossed), I think the immense losses in their lives caused by CoS will be felt so strongly and all at once. I don't envy those kids and all the pain CoS (and Tom) has caused them.

I imagine part of the reason they stay even as adults is because 1) Tom Cruise largely funds their lifestyles & would cut them off and 2) Tom and CoS have been the only constants in their lives. That would be very hard to breakaway from. I imagine there's probably some hardcore codependency issues going on there. Tom's mom and sister, who I think have lived with/around Tom most of the kids' lives, would also disconnect from them.

Edited November 15, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

The only thing I respect about Kirstie is her children aren't famewhores. I don't think I've ever seen pictures of them, and she doesn't drag them out and parade them when she has something to promote, like most celebs do. I looked on Wikiedia, and their birth dates, occupation/college, or anything personal is absent. Only their names are listed.

I agree that she hasn't allowed them to be fame whores for the most part, but:

- They were on the very short-lived reality show Kirstie had called "Kirstie Alley's Big Life," but they seemed not to want to hog the camera or be stars or anything. It didn't reek of her exploiting her kids or anything, but they were still on the show.

- You likely won't find any info about schools/colleges for kids of celeb Scientologists. The kids usually are either homeschooled in a Scientology-based curriculum (as Bella & -Connor Cruise were) or go to private schools run by Scientology or that use Scientology methods (at one point Will Smith & Jada funded such a school; I believe it closed down). And born-in Scientologists usually don't go to college. While Isabella did go to a comestology program, neither she nor Connor went to university. University/college is generally not encouraged....because it would introduce critical thinking and make kids question the cult. My guess is there's no info on these kids because they haven't done anything except Scientology-approved schooling and then tons of auditing/reading L.Ron's books/etc. Which honestly, makes their chances of leaving less....what else do they have to fall back on besides being supported by their mom who is in the cult?

Anyone who has read the book.....does Tom Cruise not like some of the "lesser" Scientology celebs? I get the feeling he doesn't want to associate with Travolta and Kirstie in particular. Were they at his wedding to Katie?

Edited November 15, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Kromm]

Anyone who has read the book.....does Tom Cruise not like some of the "lesser" Scientology celebs? I get the feeling he doesn't want to associate with Travolta and Kirstie in particular. Were they at his wedding to Katie?

Haven't read the book, but from other observations, Cruise seems to value fame, power and influence a lot. Alley, although fairly well known, really has very little influence. Travolta has some brief career resurgence every few years, but I'd think Cruise's opinion of him was probably created during his longest period of being washed up. Also you could argue that Travolta was Scientology's poster boy before Cruise came along, and while you'd normally think that would lead to the person being replaced hating the replacer, Cruise is such an asshat I could see him reversing that.

 

And there's also the fact that a lot of people think Cruise is gay, or just suppressed, but if he is the first he's an even stronger denier of it than Travolta, and if he's the second, then he's in even more denial. Cruise acts fairly overtly heterosexual, whereas I'd argue Travolta, despite being married, does not. So I've always wondered if Cruise hates/disrespects Travolta for that.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Kromm

[Wings]

 

Anyone who has read the book.....does Tom Cruise not like some of the "lesser" Scientology celebs? I get the feeling he doesn't want to associate with Travolta and Kirstie in particular. Were they at his wedding to Katie?

 

That was not mentioned in the book.  Kirsty, John T and Kelly were not invited to the wedding, but Brooke Shields was!  Clearly for PR purposes.  Leah was asked to invite JLo and Mark Anthony.  She said, shouldn't you do that?  Katie replied that they didn't know them that well.  Nothing like a star studded wedding. 

 

Leah was pressured to take the van with the Scientologits to the wedding from the hotel.  Her plan was to go with Jen and Mark.  They did not let up on her until Jen said, she is going with us.  They backed off immediately and bowed to Jen.   They catered to Jen and Mark throughout.  

 

To illustrate how dedicated to COS Leah was, she never told her best friend Jen anything she experienced in COS until out.  

[ButterQueen]

Thanks for the info on the book....I must buy it.

I really wish Katie could write a book, especially how her father freed her from Tom Cruise.

[Wings]

I wish we could too and from Nichole as well.  They will never say a word.  I think they would have to pay a huge some of money and perhaps other repercussions we can only imagine that were not in any contract.  

[Maharincess]

Spoiler alert.

This was the tid bit.

Leah changed her seat to sit next to Jennifer Lopez at the wedding. She was also a few minutes late, but arrived at the same time as Tom's sister so not that late.

As punishment for "ruining the wedding" and "upsetting everybody in attendance" Leah had to have over 2 months of 12 hour days of "auditing", in which they hammer at you for hours and hours and hours asking the same questions over and over until you give the answer they want. 2 months of that shit, 12 hours a day.

Then for having "bad manners" she had to pay to stock the scientology library with Emily Post manners books she had to pay 300 thousand dollars to the church, she had to make an art project out of Tom and Katie's wedding invitation and favors then present it to them with a written apology for ruining their wedding. Then she had to buy and put together gift baskets for everybody who went to the wedding with a written apology to each of them for "destroying the wedding".

There are many more things in this book!

Is that the comment I wrote and messaged to you? It sounds very familiar.

[Wings]

Is that the comment I wrote and messaged to you? It sounds very familiar.

 

Yes it is!  

[Maharincess]

Don't confuse an old lady like that!! Lol. I was reading it and thinking how familiar it sounded.

[Wings]

Don't confuse an old lady like that!! Lol. I was reading it and thinking how familiar it sounded.

 

 

Ha ha ha!  My sons screw with my head constantly and I can never get them.  I take my shots when they drop in my lap. 

Edited November 16, 2015 by wings707

[psychoticstate]

 You cannot separate the person from COS.  Scientology has its claws stuck in their skulls like a rabid squirrel.  COS is behind everything.  Kirsty is in, and in deep.  They did not make her do that, they probably asked that she do it and she willing obliged because she believes so deeply in staying away from SPs.   Or she did it with her own volition because of her beliefs. I believe the latter.   Not petty at all, it is all about the church.   

 

This pretty much sums in up very well in a nutshell.  The deeper a person is in the CofS, the less of a separation there is.

 

Haven't read the book, but from other observations, Cruise seems to value fame, power and influence a lot. Alley, although fairly well known, really has very little influence. Travolta has some brief career resurgence every few years, but I'd think Cruise's opinion of him was probably created during his longest period of being washed up. Also you could argue that Travolta was Scientology's poster boy before Cruise came along, and while you'd normally think that would lead to the person being replaced hating the replacer, Cruise is such an asshat I could see him reversing that.

 

And there's also the fact that a lot of people think Cruise is gay, or just suppressed, but if he is the first he's an even stronger denier of it than Travolta, and if he's the second, then he's in even more denial. Cruise acts fairly overtly heterosexual, whereas I'd argue Travolta, despite being married, does not. So I've always wondered if Cruise hates/disrespects Travolta for that.

 

I think Cruise and Travolta are similar in that they both came to Scientology for the same reasons - - looking for positive influences, help with their careers and help with their sexuality.  Travolta has thrown caution to the winds at time and I think Cruise hates Travolta for that.  I also think he hates the similarities - - basically hating in Travolta what he sees in himself.  And I think Cruise is very, very suppressed about his sexual orientation/desires.  JMO, of course.

 

I definitely agree that Cruise values fame, power and influence while I don't believe Travolta gives two craps about them.  Cruise is also militant about Scientology and his beliefs and I think he would be offended at others who do not share that. 

[Wings]

Reading between the lines I have a hunch that Travolta and Kirsty do not buy into Tom's power thus the disconnect.  Tom is the epitome of power obsessed prick. 

[grumpypanda]

Wrong board.

Edited November 21, 2015 by grumpypanda

[merriebreeze]

What a disgusting person. Shame on you ABC

[annzeepark914]

I'm from Arkansas, and this case was all over the news. The Arkansas Times led the investigation into the Harrises, and weren't exactly happy with 20/20. 

 

http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2015/10/24/twenty-problems-with-20-20s-coverage-of-the-justin-harris-rehoming

Wow.  I saw a re-run of this program last week and wondered at the seeming laxity of adoption in Arkansas.  It sure would have meant something to have at least some of this information (if not all) in the program. Why bother broadcasting this if you're not going to give all sides a chance to air their grievances.

[tobeannounced]

I finished the book today, and Leah only says that she heard Tom didn't like Travolta and Alley but didn't elaborate.

[psychoticstate]

I finished the book over the weekend and I have to give Leah mad props for it.  I appreciate that she genuinely and truly wanted to believe in the Church's stated beliefs.  She thought their message of helping the world was a good one but the way they treated members was abhorrent.  I'm glad she mentioned not only the harsh physical treatment but also the fact that a score of their parishioners were bankrupt thanks to the Church.

 

I admit frustration when reading that Leah's mom encouraged her to just accept her punishment and do what they wanted to move up the Bridge.  Shows how brainwashed so many of those folks are.

 

I was never a JLo fan before but I like that she had zero fucks to give over whether or not her father, a Scientologist, would tell her to disconnect from Leah after Leah blew the Church as well as the militant attitude during the TomKat sham wedding in Italy. 

 

I think Katie Holmes seemed more cold and calculating from the book.  Tom is a loon but he at least seems to believe in all the crap.  I don't think Katie ever did; I think it was all for show in the hopes that her career would become Kidman sized.   

 

I have heard stories for years about the special treatment Tom received but reading Leah's book really floored me.  He truly thinks he's that special.

[NewDigs]

He's been told just how special he is for many years. This was done while Tommy and Nicole were a'courtin'.

I had heard tell of this incident many moons ago. Wright's Going Clear confirms this happened and the Daily Mail makes mention.

Miscavige’s determination to please Cruise and Kidman, whom he married in 1990, is said to have run to ludicrous lengths.

Gold Base is the church’s heavily fortified secret HQ in the California desert, where some 800 members of Sea Org — Scientology’s quasi-military ruling order — slave away for room, board and £15 a week. It has been claimed that some haven’t left the base for ten years.

But it was here, inside the razor-wire fences that Miscavige built a special ‘love bungalow’ where the couple stayed during their visits.

A rose garden was planted next to it and a tennis court built. When Miscavige heard the couple fantasised about running through a field of wild flowers, staff were ordered to plant a section of desert.

The meadow never took hold in the parched earth, and when a mudslide ruined the bungalow, Wright claims that Miscavige was so furious he ordered the entire base to work 16-hour days until it was restored to pristine condition.

[Wings]

Thanks for that link.  COS continues to fascinate me.  

[ZaldamoWilder]

You guys are all SPs, I shouldn't even be in here talking to you.  {{duck}} here they come!  :P

 

Again...holy shit.

Scientology has something called the "Fair Game" policy, which says in Leah's book, "anyone against scientology may be deprived of property or injured by any means by any scientologist without any discipline of the scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed".

Yikes.

 

Holy shit is right.  Um, homicide is a kind of an injury. 

 

I skipped all the "spoilers" because I just ran out of books, so Troublemaker's gonna make my next page turner from the sounds of it.  In the meantime, anybody know what happens when a Scientologist marries a non?  Is the goal to convert them?  Because why was Tom *allowed* to marry Katie? 

 

11 days?  I mean it's not Tina-Turner-hobbling-into-the-hotel-across-the-street-with-nothing-but-$1.49-and-the-shirt-on-your-back, but damn girl, mazel!

 

I don't know whether or not I get the psychological pull of a cult but I can't respect any grown man or woman standing idle while an organization works to isolate them from their parents.  Vicki needs her whole entire ass beaten.  How does it sound close to right for your kids be in some work camp in lieu of education while you live somedamnwhere else?

[psychoticstate]

You guys are all SPs, I shouldn't even be in here talking to you.  {{duck}} here they come!  :P

 

 

Holy shit is right.  Um, homicide is a kind of an injury. 

 

I skipped all the "spoilers" because I just ran out of books, so Troublemaker's gonna make my next page turner from the sounds of it.  In the meantime, anybody know what happens when a Scientologist marries a non?  Is the goal to convert them?  Because why was Tom *allowed* to marry Katie? 

 

11 days?  I mean it's not Tina-Turner-hobbling-into-the-hotel-across-the-street-with-nothing-but-$1.49-and-the-shirt-on-your-back, but damn girl, mazel!

 

I don't know whether or not I get the psychological pull of a cult but I can't respect any grown man or woman standing idle while an organization works to isolate them from their parents.  Vicki needs her whole entire ass beaten.  How does it sound close to right for your kids be in some work camp in lieu of education while you live somedamnwhere else?

 

Zaldamo, I believe Tom was "permitted" to "marry" Katie because he was attempting to garner some new fans, Katie was attempting to garner some new fame and David M. probably thought that Katie would bring some new, young blood into the CofS. 

 

Katie publicly stated that she was learning about Scientology and insinuated that she would be a member of sorts, while Tom was spouting off the rubbish that you can be a Catholic and Scientologist, Lutheran and Scientologist, etc.  I don't think Katie had any intention of joining the cult but was merely required to publicly endorse it. 

 

I'm surprised that the CofS hasn't hooked Tom up with a celebrity Scieno, quite frankly.  It's such a major part of who and what he is, even if the marriage was legit, I don't see it working with a non-Scieno.

[ZaldamoWilder]

Thank you psycho lol.  It's so fascinating. 

 

 

I'm surprised that the CofS hasn't hooked Tom up with a celebrity Scieno, quite frankly.  It's such a major part of who and what he is, even if the marriage was legit, I don't see it working with a non-Scieno.

 

Yeah that's why I'm asking, she didn't strike me as the sign here type or ever really somebody who fell and bumped her head so how was it ever gonna work.  Between ruining Oprah's couch (by the way, are there no manners in CofS? my mama would've been waiting outside the studio with a belt, you do NOT jump on people's furniture!) and that nutty ass way he sounded talking to Matt Lauer this dude has been off the rails for a really long time, why are we really just now find out?

 

I giggled at "silent birth" if the baby gets to say something, I do too, fuck that.

[Guest]

I'm surprised that the CofS hasn't hooked Tom up with a celebrity Scieno, quite frankly.  It's such a major part of who and what he is, even if the marriage was legit, I don't see it working with a non-Scieno.

 

I think that's why they tried hooking him up with the Scientologist who they groomed to be his girlfriend. I think he's just pretty demanding and hard to get along with, so it isn't as easy as find a celebrity Scientologist and set them up.  

[Wings]

COS did hunt within for a mate for Tom.  

 

"In 2007, after he ended his three-year relationship with Penelope Cruz (regarded as too independent-minded by church bosses, apparently) the star complained that nobody had been able to find him a new girlfriend.

A grand hunt ensued as staff reportedly auditioned every young actress in Scientology — about 100 in all"  

 

Same link as posted above from the Daily Mail. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2264859/How-Tom-Cruises-cult-controlled-love-life--claims-book-links-scientology-humiliated-British-beauty-didnt-make-grade-future-wife.html

 

I don't know if he is gay or not,  but wanting a wife, any wife, for the sake of having one does not help him deny  the rumor.

 

I don't know the link (it is here somewhere) either Katie,Nicole or a girlfriend used the word monastery to describe their relationship. 

Edited November 24, 2015 by wings707

[topanga]

 

I admit frustration when reading that Leah's mom encouraged her to just accept her punishment and do what they wanted to move up the Bridge.  Shows how brainwashed so many of those folks are.

Leah must've had a great relationship with her mother growing up, or else she's just a forgiving person because she never expresses anger (at least in interviews) toward her mother for forcing her and her sister to be part of the CoS. In fact, in this 20/20 interview, she told Dan, "So, what, I'm supposed to hate my mother?"  Leah is a better person than I am. My mom pisses me off most days, and she never made me study Scientology.

 

And I might have missed this post, but why did Leah have plastic surgery? She was always beautiful and never had excessive wrinkles or any other flaws that needing fixing. So she definitely had a nose job, which--why? Everyone knows how your nose looks, Leah, and you've had a successful career in Hollywood for years. Who is she trying to impress? She also probably had cheek implants, which she didn't need either, IMO. Her mouth doesn't look different, but why was she having so much trouble talking during the interview? She could barely open her mouth. Was her jaw wired shut? Did she recently have oral surgery?

[Wings]

Her mother did not know what she was going through.  She knew nothing of the abuse or conditions.  Leah accepted it (brain washing).  Leah did not tell her mother because she believed what she experienced was happening to save the planet.    She was a good student.  Her mother knew nothing of she and her sisters experience in Sea Org.  

[Kromm]

Her mother did not know what she was going through.  She knew nothing of the abuse or conditions.  Leah accepted it (brain washing).  Leah did not tell her mother because she believed what she experienced was happening to save the planet.    She was a good student.  Her mother knew nothing of she and her sisters experience in Sea Org.  

Bullshit.

 

Leah may act like nothing was her mother's fault, but there's no way it's totally true. Did the mother know EXACTLY? Of course not. But there was a deliberate disconnect (the classic meaning of that phrase, not he Scientology specific one) the cult encouraged between parents and children. A large amount of handing over responsibility for things involving child-rearing over TO the Church that most people not in a cult wouldn't ever agree to.  The SciHead parents operated in a kind of willful ignorance, I'd argue. 

[Wings]

Bullshit.

 

Leah may act like nothing was her mother's fault, but there's no way it's totally true. Did the mother know EXACTLY? Of course not. But there was a deliberate disconnect (the classic meaning of that phrase, not he Scientology specific one) the cult encouraged between parents and children. A large amount of handing over responsibility for things involving child-rearing over TO the Church that most people not in a cult wouldn't ever agree to.  The SciHead parents operated in a kind of willful ignorance, I'd argue. 

 

Well, perhaps.  I give her mother a break and this is based on Leah's immediate embracing her and her mom leaving the cult when Leah did. 

 

I do not think there was any malice no matter how it went down. 

[Kromm]

Well, perhaps.  I give her mother a break and this is based on Leah's immediate embracing her and her mom leaving the cult when Leah did. 

 

I do not think there was any malice no matter how it went down. 

Malice, no. As I said, I think it was a state of willful ignorance. Not wanting to know, basically.

[tobeannounced]

I agree, Kromm.  I don't know if you have read the book, but what was especially disturbing to me was how Leah described the "nursery" her infant sister was kept in when the family worked at "Flag."  They basically were left with other teenagers all day and just sat in their cribs in dirty diapers with flies buzzing around.  Leah's mom had no time to visit the baby, so Leah would try to make the trip to see her sister on her lunch hour.

 

I just find all that really disturbing re Leah's continued involvement in Scientology as an adult.  She knew exactly how children and teens were treated but didn't think twice about it when she went back to Flag as an adult.  I do like Leah, but willful ignorance is on the generous side when I think about her tolerance for that crap.

Edited November 25, 2015 by tobeannounced

[psychoticstate]

I don't know the link (it is here somewhere) either Katie,Nicole or a girlfriend used the word monastery to describe their relationship.

 

 

That would be from Tom's first wife, Mimi Rogers.  She was quoted at one time saying that he wanted to keep his "instrument" clean.

[Wings]

Malice, no. As I said, I think it was a state of willful ignorance. Not wanting to know, basically.

 

 

I agree that malice was the wrong word to use.  Leah did not share her experience in Sea Org with her mother.  The COS deal is not to question anything because everything that is done is necessary to save the planet.  Her mother did not know what went on there.  And she probably had no idea about the nursery either.  

 

 

That would be from Tom's first wife, Mimi Rogers.  She was quoted at one time saying that he wanted to keep his "instrument" clean.

 

 

This is actually hysterical.  Kind of makes you think the gay rumor is not a rumor at all!  What young 23 year old man does not want to have sex?  Especially with the woman who shares his bed every night? 

[Kromm]

I agree that malice was the wrong word to use.  Leah did not share her experience in Sea Org with her mother.  The COS deal is not to question anything because everything that is done is necessary to save the planet.  Her mother did not know what went on there.  And she probably had no idea about the nursery either.  

My point is that there are levels of accountability with anything and everything having to do with Scientology. Just like a lot of the defectors going around now acting as if they were themselves only victims of some large machine they were a cog in isn't entirely accurate, so would it be over-simplistic to equate Leah's mother not knowing the details of what happened to her daughters with her being blameless for what DID happen.  I know that's not what you said about her,  but I'm just saying that's implied by a hanging "she didn't know" statement without any qualifiers added. 

 

Mom being a cult victim herself doesn't erase the normal human obligations. It would be far less tragic a situation if it did. The CoS is mainly to blame, but the acceptance of dictates to deliberately NOT check up on the welfare of your kids, to NOT have that usual low-level paranoia parents are really supposed to have about their kids and not wonder what's going on with their kids during all of those away times (which if the kids got actual disciplinary sentences could be months or YEARS away)? It's dysfunctional to the extent where you have to temper the pity you might feel towards the parent a bit. And it's not like the Mom was born into Scientology herself. So it can't really be attributed to her not knowing of any other way parents and children should interact.  Heck, watching a TV and seeing some lousy sitcom would even tell another story even to those people, muchless having had decades of life before Scientology.

 

The thing about the whole "saving the world" excuse is that it was deliberately light on details. What had to be swallowed was huge, and while it's understandable so many impressionable people fell prey to it, when it affects those around them as well, then there's got to be some accountability. It's what's missing from most of these whistleblowers and ex-Scientologists. David Miscaviage is a bad guy, make no mistake, and will no doubt serve his time in Hell if there's an actual one of those, but the engine of Scientology ran more on a huge chain of people constantly looking the other way than it did one or two guys stepping all over the rest.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Kromm

[psychoticstate]

I agree, Kromm.  I don't know if you have read the book, but what was especially disturbing to me was how Leah described the "nursery" her infant sister was kept in when the family worked at "Flag."  They basically were left with other teenagers all day and just sat in their cribs in dirty diapers with flies buzzing around.  Leah's mom had no time to visit the baby, so Leah would try to make the trip to see her sister on her lunch hour.

 

 

The deplorable nursery conditions were also mentioned in the Going Clear documentary.  Beyond disturbing. 

This is actually hysterical.  Kind of makes you think the gay rumor is not a rumor at all!  What young 23 year old man does not want to have sex?  Especially with the woman who shares his bed every night?

 

 

Ding, ding, ding!

[biakbiak]

My point is that there are levels of accountability with anything and everything having to do with Scientology. Just like a lot of the defectors going around now acting as if they were themselves only victims of some large machine they were a cog in isn't entirely accurate, so would it be over-simplistic to equate Leah's mother not knowing the details of what happened to her daughters with her being blameless for what DID happen. I know that's not what you said about her, but I'm just saying that's implied by a hanging "she didn't know" statement without any qualifiers added.

Mom being a cult victim herself doesn't erase the normal human obligations. It would be far less tragic a situation if it did. The CoS is mainly to blame, but the acceptance of dictates to deliberately NOT check up on the welfare of your kids, to NOT have that usual low-level paranoia parents are really supposed to have about their kids and not wonder what's going on with their kids during all of those away times (which if the kids got actual disciplinary sentences could be months or YEARS away)? It's dysfunctional to the extent where you have to temper the pity you might feel towards the parent a bit. And it's not like the Mom was born into Scientology herself. So it can't really be attributed to her not knowing of any other way parents and children should interact. Heck, watching a TV and seeing some lousy sitcom would even tell another story even to those people, muchless having had decades of life before Scientology.

I agree. It's one of the reasons I also have issues with Paul Haggis who was the most famous to break pubically with and speak out about Scientology before Leah. His break came over Prop 8 because both of his daughters are lesbians (who he raised in Scientology) claiming even that he never had any clue about COS view of homosexuality until 2009. That is a level of willful ignorance that boogles the mind. Edited November 27, 2015 by biakbiak

[ShellSeeker]

I agree. It's one of the reasons I also have issues with Paul Haggis who was the most famous to break pubically with and speak out about Scientology before Leah. His break came over Prop 8 because both of his daughters (who he raised in Scientology) claiming even that he never had any clue about COS view of homosexuality until 2009. That is a level of willful ignorance that boogles the mind.

 

It's amazing what people can convince themselves of, or what they can ignore, when they want to believe something badly enough. It reminds me of a horrible boyfriend I had years ago. Yes, he was a complete shit for saying exactly what he knew I wanted to hear, even though he didn't mean a single word of it, but I was the one stupid enough to believe it.

[WescottF1]

One of my sister's best friends joined us for Thanksgiving yesterday.  She's the sister of Don Jason and confirmed that everything Leah's come out with, and the rumors about Travolta, are about as accurate as it gets.

[Wings]

One of my sister's best friends joined us for Thanksgiving yesterday.  She's the sister of Don Jason and confirmed that everything Leah's come out with, and the rumors about Travolta, are about as accurate as it gets.

 

 

The only rumor about Travolta, that I know, is the fairly recent expose from the massage therapist on a cruise that claimed they had sex.  He never commented on it and any further talk about it was squashed.  COS probably paid him hush money along with a contract that threatened huge fine if broken.   My assumption.

 

All Leah said in her book was that he was a nice guy.  

 

Do you know anything more? 

Edited November 27, 2015 by wings707

[WescottF1]

She didn't elaborate too much but said he's definitely got a thing for men and it's a well-known thing in Scieno circles.

[Wings]

She didn't elaborate too much but said he's definitely got a thing for men and it's a well-known thing in Scieno circles.

 

 

I see a money making opportunity for gay men everywhere!  Get close enough to have sex with JT or Cruise, blab and wait for the pay off!   

[RedheadZombie]

National Enquirer is claiming that Tom hasn't seen Suri in over 800 days.  It may be a BS claim, but last time someone made a claim like this Tom sued, and had to give a deposition in court.  It was a disaster for him because he had to acknowledge he did not prioritize Suri, blew off her first day of school, and he also managed to compare his role in a movie to soldiers fighting for their country.  So out of touch.

 

http://www.celebitchy.com/458732/tom_cruise_reportedly_hasnt_seen_daughter_suri_cruise_in_more_than_800_days/

[NewDigs]

Has Tom put on weight? He looks a bit fuller through his torso. And his face looks kind of different.

And what is Katie wearing? Bad choice of undergarments? Or just bad choice?

I fully believe that he has not seen Suri in over 800 days. She has S.P. written all over her!

But I would love to see another deposition go wrong for TommyBoy.

[Wings]

National Enquirer is claiming that Tom hasn't seen Suri in over 800 days.  It may be a BS claim, but last time someone made a claim like this Tom sued, and had to give a deposition in court.  It was a disaster for him because he had to acknowledge he did not prioritize Suri, blew off her first day of school, and he also managed to compare his role in a movie to soldiers fighting for their country.  So out of touch.

 

http://www.celebitchy.com/458732/tom_cruise_reportedly_hasnt_seen_daughter_suri_cruise_in_more_than_800_days/

 

 

I believe it.  And this is one instance where I believe the child will benefit without dad in the picture much if at all.  When she is older she will be able understand why her father was not a big part of her life.  

 

What he did to his children with Nicole is reprehensible.  He is an insufferable, arrogant prick and I believe even some in COS would agree.    So "sir" you are now on the other side and I hope you stay there.  

Edited November 27, 2015 by wings707

[RedheadZombie]

That would be from Tom's first wife, Mimi Rogers.  She was quoted at one time saying that he wanted to keep his "instrument" clean.

 

I don't think Tom's gay.  I think Mimi probably said that because he left her for Nicole.  He cheated on her.  He also cheated on Nicole with Penelope.  I think the gay rumors were also influenced by the belief that Tom never had a biological child.  It was proven in court documents that Nicole miscarried Tom's child after he abruptly dumped her.  I also think he's Suri bio dad.

 

I think Tom has huge issues, but I've never gotten the impression that he's conflicted about his sexuality.  I read the big unauthorized biography on Tom, but I can't recall the author's name at this time.  It was extremely critical of Tom and Nicole.  The author's claim is that Tom is not gay, and that he's actually overly needy of women.  I think that's backed up by the fact that he cheats on his wives, and walks away without a second thought when he's in a new relationship.  If Katie hadn't booked, he would have ended that marriage already, IMO.  I think she pre-meditated the ending to get a better deal financially, and to get sole custody of Suri. 

 

I've never believed that's she's the helpless naïve trapped victim.  She was twenty-seven when they married, had already been engaged and in several long-term relationships.  She'd been in the business for ten years, and had seen the absolute crazy side of CO$.  She'd already experienced the craziness of a "silent birth", leaving the newborn alone in a dark room, and the eating of the placenta (shiver). She also sat center stage (and even participated in) the alienation of Nicole from Bella and Connor.  The best part is when Katie wondered the streets of NYC like a bag lady.  She would go out disheveled with gray streaks in her hair, and made sure the paps caught her.  It brought on all the talk of "Free Katie" and ensured the public was 100% on her side.  I do have compassion for her, and I'm happy she removed Suri from this mess.  But I also remember that she let Suri live in this mess as well.

[RedheadZombie]

The only rumor about Travolta, that I know, is the fairly recent expose from the massage therapist on a cruise that claimed they had sex.  He never commented on it and any further talk about it was squashed.  COS probably paid him hush money along with a contract that threatened huge fine if broken.   My assumption.

 

All Leah said in her book was that he was a nice guy.  

 

Do you know anything more? 

 

This isn't addressed to me, but here's a link to Celebitchy's archive on John Travolta.  It is a gossip site, but the writers are intelligent, and they're pretty up to date with info that comes from Tony Ortega.

 

http://www.celebitchy.com/category/John_Travolta/

[Wings]

The gay rumors started long before Nichole. The adoptions were merely one more thing in the pile of doubt.

 

 I don't think Mimi made that up.  Who would even think to go there, very odd statement.  

 

In the words of Shakespeare, "I think the lady doth protest, too much."  

 

Most celebrities ignore rumors in the press; John Travolta did.   If you feed them they grow.  It was all bluster and not necessary.  COS paid off those who claimed to have had sex with Tom.  I would bet my life on that.  

 

I don't think he cheated on his wives either. Paparazzi catch clandestine lovers all the time and you know they were paying attention to Tom, probably hoping to catch him with a man.     

[Wings]

This isn't addressed to me, but here's a link to Celebitchy's archive on John Travolta.  It is a gossip site, but the writers are intelligent, and they're pretty up to date with info that comes from Tony Ortega.

 

http://www.celebitchy.com/category/John_Travolta/

 

 

Thanks.  This filled me in on Travolta more.  So he wants to stay in the closet, nothing wrong with that.  

 

He is in a different category than Cruise.  He is living his life as quietly as possible, has a wife who he must love and has an arrangement that works for them..  

 

I wonder if his pilot will ever get the rights to publish his book.  It doesn't seem likely.  

[RedheadZombie]

One of my sister's best friends joined us for Thanksgiving yesterday.  She's the sister of Don Jason and confirmed that everything Leah's come out with, and the rumors about Travolta, are about as accurate as it gets.

 

Having never heard of Don Jason, I googled him.  I found a 2009 article in which he talks about his experience of leaving CO$, and the blow drill they used when he escaped.  Here's a link for anyone interested.  http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/man-overboard-to-leave-scientology-don-jason-had-to-jump-off-a-ship/1048124

 

The article states he left before his sister.  I'm so paranoid about CO$ that I was tempted to ask you to edit the name to protect him and his sister.  But they've been out for years, and CO$ has lost a lot of their power.

[RedheadZombie]

The gay rumors started long before Nichole. The adoptions were merely one more thing in the pile of doubt.

 

 I don't think Mimi made that up.  Who would even think to go there, very odd statement.  

 

In the words of Shakespeare, "I think the lady doth protest, too much."  

 

Most celebrities ignore rumors in the press; John Travolta did.   If you feed them they grow.  It was all bluster and not necessary.  COS paid off those who claimed to have had sex with Tom.  I would bet my life on that.  

 

I don't think he cheated on his wives either. Paparazzi catch clandestine lovers all the time and you know they were paying attention to Tom, probably hoping to catch him with a man.     

 

Well he was involved with Nicole before he filed for divorce with Mimi.  He also became involved with Penelope Cruz while he was still married to Nicole.   The director of Vanilla Sky, Cameron Crowe, once stated how beautiful it was to watch Penelope and Tom fall in love on set.  I found it in extreme poor taste to say that, not to mention completely insensitive to Nicole.  Vanilla Sky was filmed from late 2000, to March 2001.  Tom blindsided Nicole with divorce papers in February 2001.  He really needs a jump off before he leaves his current wife.  I think his marriage was already compromised by CO$ covertly alienating Tom from Nicole, but by all appearances, Nicole thought she was happily married.  In fact, their ten year anniversary was 12/24/2000, and Tom had thrown her a big ten year anniversary party.

 

I don't follow Travolta so I'm not really familiar with how he handles rumors.  I do know that several male masseuse claimed they were sexually assaulted by Travolta.  Each case was dropped, which leads folks to believe either he or the "church" paid them off.