20/20 - General Discussion

[psychoticstate]

I agree That Kirstie is going nowhere.  I honestly believe that converts tend to be the true fanatics (see Michelle Duggar).  Kirstie believe CO$ got her off of drugs.  Luckily she didn't die while withdrawing, which is not uncommon in their "drug programs".  They told her some ridiculous story that she was drawn to cocaine because it reminded her of when her grandfather comforted her after a dental procedure involving a form of cocaine.  What a bunch of messed up garbage.  She bought it hook, line, sinker.  The funny part is she is a true believer that CO$ is the true way to cure an addiction - yet she continues to struggle with an eating addiction and yo-yos her weight in a very unhealthy manner.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noted that Kirstie touts how amazing the COS' drug program is and yet Jenny Craig can't even keep her away from the sticks of butter.  Apparently the COS did teach her a new form of weights because I will still never buy her claim that she got her clothing size and weight down to where she said she did.  I guess that's an acceptable truth in COS speak.  Along with Cruise's claim that he personally got someone off heroin in three days.  Uh-huh, riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.  No way can anyone get someone off heroin in three days, much less a short, toothy monkey on crack.

 

 

 

MyPeopleAreNordic, I have to be honest - reading your posts about Scientology while looking at your avatar of January Jones (scientologist) is making me laugh a little.  Like you really are January Jones and totally spilling the dirt on Scientology in here.

 

Overall it was a good interview. I already requested the book from my library - 7 people are ahead of me in line, so it will be awhile!

 

Is January Jones a Scieno?  I know Elisabeth Moss is but I didn't realize JJ is too . . .

[Tunia]

^^^Here's an interesting list of celebs connected to CoS.  Don't see January Jones on it, but Jocelyn Jones is listed.

http://gawker.com/a-comprehensive-updated-list-of-every-celebrity-linked-1694554276?trending_test_a&utm_expid=66866090-62.H_y_0o51QhmMY_tue7bevQ.1&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26rct%3Dj%26q%3D%26esrc%3Ds%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D3%26sqi%3D2%26ved%3D0CCUQFjACahUKEwjV1fz8u_zIAhUFqR4KHZNPByg%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fgawker.com%252Fa-comprehensive-updated-list-of-every-celebrity-linked-1694554276%26usg%3DAFQjCNGTweXGuf9d6s0jMlBTa7hsvzdFyw%26bvm%3Dbv.106923889%2Cd.dmo

[NewDigs]

Celeb scienos.

Guess Scientology wasn't able to help Jeff Conaway.

I always hate seeing Beck's name in these lists.

ETA: Oops, tunia beat me to it. Darn customers...

Edited November 6, 2015 by NewDigs

[ari333]

Jeff Conaway WHAT?I had no idea.

[Wings]

If only Conway had met Tom he would have been cured in 3 days. 

 

I have been listening to defectors from high positions in COS on youtube.  Very interesting stuff.  Well, horrifying too, of course. 

[ari333]

I'm all for anyone believing anything they choose to believe. When they try to foist it on me, that's a different story.

Edited November 6, 2015 by ari333

[Maharincess]

Ari333, I couldn't agree more. I'm an atheist but I respect whatever anybody chooses to believe in. It's when I'm told that I'm going to hell and people try to make me "see the truth" and become a believer that I get pissed.

[ari333]

oh yes. I need to go to small talk to make my rant and reply in agreement with you :).

[Kromm]

I'm all for anyone believing anything they choose to believe. When they try to foist it on me, that's a different story.

Except even best case, they've been conned. So that "live and let live" attitude falls short, even if they weren't doing harm to others in turn (as many of them are, simply by endorsing this cult, as well as their dangerous practices). 

[Maharincess]

oh yes. I need to go to small talk to make my rant and reply in agreement with you :).

I'll meet you over there! Lol.

[Wings]

Ari333, I couldn't agree more. I'm an atheist but I respect whatever anybody chooses to believe in. It's when I'm told that I'm going to hell and people try to make me "see the truth" and become a believer that I get pissed.

 

 

I am an atheist, too, and agree you and  ari333.  I take it a little further.  I don't like people constantly referencing god and what they believe as the truth, even if they are not trying to sway me. 

 

ETA:  I have not noticed Scientologists doing this on TV other than Tom with Matt Laur.  Christians are the main offenders.  

Edited November 7, 2015 by wings707

[psychoticstate]

The Church of Scientology can worship bananas and believe in the almighty power of potassium for all I care but when you start defrauding the government and general public, separate family members, tell certain "parishioners" whether they may or may not be able to have children (which includes ordering abortions) and badmouth psychiatry and general medicines, I take issue with you.  I get angry and offensive when people are harassed, go missing and/or die because of the COS.

 

Add to that Tom Cruise and Kirstie Alley being your main spokesholes and throat punching is in order in my book.  

[Maharincess]

I don't want to give too much away with Leah's book because I know some of you are planning to read it, but I just finished the section with Tom and Katie's wedding.

Holy shit. The things they made her do as punishment for changing her seat and being a few minutes late had me yelling "holy effing shit".

I'm in shock.

I've liked Leah since before King of Queens, I always liked that she was tough and did what she wanted and didn't seem to care what anybody thought. In interviews and things she just always seemed like she was independent and in control. Just kind of a tough chick.

I'm in shock at the power, intimidation and just complete and utter control she allowed the "church" to have over her life.

The things they made her do after that wedding are just jaw dropping.

Like I said before, I don't know if I could have forgiven my mom for getting me into a mess like that as a child. Her mom is lucky that all of her daughters seem to have forgiven her.

[MsTree]

maharincess, for those of us who are curious, could you maybe put some of the shocking stuff from Leah's book in spoiler tags?? Thanks in advance.

[Wings]

Maharincess, I would love to hear what they did to punish her after the wedding and other highlights.  I doubt I will read the book so anything you care to share would be fabulous.  

 

My guess. They don't blame their mother because she, like all others, joined not knowing what was in store.  Since families are separated when kids are in Sea Org, she probably had no idea what was going on and Leah and her sister were brain washed into keeping things to themselves out of fear.  

[Wings]

I wonder if Leah's book will damage Tom's image enough for him to get repercussions from the movie industry.  Leah is more known than others who have written books.  She will attract readers who may not have researched COS for days on a message board!  LOL!   I have known COS was a cult and bad news for decades but the documentaries and books mentioned here eluded me. 

 

I learned here Will Smith and family were in COS.  Finally my question is answered.  Why don't I particularly like this family when I think I should?  Bingo.  COS radiates through their personalities.  An arrogance that is hard to define. 

Edited November 7, 2015 by wings707

[ari333]

Did anyone see this? This fiancée seems so guilty to me. Her bizarre behavior doesn't make her guilty - just makes her weird (said the pot to the kettle)  But wow... I think she did it.

So many things about her story seem super fishy to me.

I know people have nervous smiling if they arent' used to tv, but all the smiling while discussing the setting and circumstances of her fiancé's death just creeped me right out.

[walnutqueen]

This story was covered on one of the other shows not too long ago.  I think the experts proved that removing the plug and the paddle ring had nothing to do with the drowning, so they need a new theory.

 

This might be another case of relentless hours long police interrogation resulting in a false confession.  I think they questioned her for about 11 hours, and then started telling her it was some sort of "therapy". 

 

Hard to tell if she had anything to do with the drowning or not ...

[Kromm]

I wonder if Leah's book will damage Tom's image enough for him to get repercussions from the movie industry. 

That happened with Tom long ago. Think about how he's had to lean on the Mission Impossible movies to have any real traction anymore. And now a rumored Top Gun 2.  Revivals/sequels are his necessity now, maybe with the occasional out of the normal self-parodying comedy to try and reap some traction another way.

 

I mean think on it.  You have to go back to the The Last Samurai since anyone took him very seriously (I suppose people could mount arguments for Lions for Lambs or Valkyrie, but neither of those projects were really "his" vehicle in the same sense as his earlier work).

I learned here Will Smith and family were in COS.  Finally my question is answered.  Why don't I particularly like this family when I think I should?  Bingo.  COS radiates through their personalities.  An arrogance that is hard to define. 

They've hidden it a lot more.  I think they were turned after Cruise and his rep started to go downhill, so the CoS was deliberately a lot more covert in how they exploited the Smiths.

Oh, here's a report that supposedly Tommy Boy is mad at Katiekins for apologizing to Leah Remini.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Kromm

[Wings]

Thanks for that info on Tom, Krom.  I moved your name to the end of the sentence.  ***big grin***

 

He does not make movies that interest me so I have not seen a lot of them.  I am glad to hear he has experienced some strife. 

 

His reaction to Katie's apology only brings him unwanted attention.  Good job Tom, keep it up! 

[ari333]

This story was covered on one of the other shows not too long ago.  I think the experts proved that removing the plug and the paddle ring had nothing to do with the drowning, so they need a new theory.

 

This might be another case of relentless hours long police interrogation resulting in a false confession.  I think they questioned her for about 11 hours, and then started telling her it was some sort of "therapy". 

 

Hard to tell if she had anything to do with the drowning or not ...

 

I agree with all of that  - what you just said. However, I just find her ..... IDK.... there is something I cannot put my finger on it. SOMETHING.

 

There used to be (and maybe still is) a blog called "eyes for lies" in which a woman with excellent skills at detecting deception would assess cases like this. I think she recently stopped bc people were stealing her content. I wish we had her take on this woman. There is something off

Also, I realize  that being weird doesn't make someone guilty. Im super weird, so I get it.

[Maharincess]

I can't do spoliers. If anybody wants to know what happened, I'll send you a private message. I just sent 2 of them so let me know.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Maharincess

[saber5055]

I only watched fragments of this episode since a guy falling out of his kayak and drowning didn't seem worth a full hour of my attention. I did notice the interviewing woman asked some very padded questions of the convicted woman, like: "Did you kill your fiancée by removing the kayak plug and unscrewing the paddle?" The woman paused before answering no, since the question gave her an out to answer truthfully, even if she did plan his death and actually killed him. Yeah, she took the plug out, but that didn't cause him to tip over, so THAT wasn't part of how she killed him.

 

Why did she want him dead anyway? They weren't married. Were there kids? Or a life insurance policy?

[Maharincess]

My question is why did she mess with the kayak and the oar? I found this episode a bit boring and was doing other things while I watched ao if it was explained I missed it.

Just because the tampering with his stuff didn't kill him, doesn't mean she didn't do it in another way out there.

When they showed her being interviewed I was picturing myself in her shoes, if it was my man who had died, I'd be on the floor in a fetal position bawling my eyes out, not doing yoga.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Maharincess

[dirtydi]

I never had an opinion of Leah R, but I like her now and will read her book.

 

All of these Tom Cruise stories make me feel validated for never liking him, since I was young.  When Top Gun came out, I liked all the guys, except him.  He always game across as smarmy to me.

[Maharincess]

I never liked Tom Cruise either. I agree on the smarmy and I'll add a creepy into it.

Even before all of the crazy scientology stuff came out I thought he was creepy. He just always seems so fake in interviews and stuff. Can't stand the guy.

[ari333]

My question is why did she mess with the kayak and the oar? I found this episode a bit boring and was doing other things while I watched ao if it was explained I missed it.

Just because the tampering with his stuff didn't kill him, doesn't mean she didn't do it in another way out there.

When they showed her being interviewed I was picturing myself in her shoes, if it was my man who had died, I'd be on the floor in a fetal position bawling my eyes out, not doing yoga.

 

THIS! Maharincess

 

And Saber, I do recall there was an insurance policy with her as beneficiary.....quarter mill IIRC.

 

It's odd  to me bc he was not a novice in the water and this was not a new hobby. What happened and why did he not have a life jacket on? And that water was cold at 48 degrees. Hypothermia in water does not take long.  Why did she deliberately overturn herself?  Strange...

Edited November 7, 2015 by ari333

[Wings]

I have felt the same way about Tom from the beginning.  That smarmy vibe was COS leaking out.  Even before he entered that cult he was ripe for the picking.  His arrogance was already in place. 

[Wings]

Maharincess,  I PMed you how to do a spoiler.  I would be happy to put your PM in spoiler tags if you prefer.  It is something everyone should read.  I bought the book after I read your PM.  It will be here Monday.  I hope this book causes waves in Tom's life like he has never before seen.  What a prick. 

 

He is already furious with Katie for apologizing to Leah.  If the report (link in Kroms recent post) is accurate he is going to go after her because she has a nondisclosure agreement.   I think he feels her apology is proof of wrong doing and thus a disclosure. 

[Wings]

Under "Tom furious with Katie"  3 pages on google are all about this topic.   Every site is probably posting the exact same thing and we don't know how true they are but there is something there.

 

This is a very juicy article.  I did not read it all because I want to read the book.  Wow to the anecdotes I did catch.  Unbelievable narssistic, arrogant and mean spirited man.  

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3300835/Tom-Cruise-s-tantrums-exposed-Leah-Remini.html

[bosawks]

An apology as a violation of a non-disclosure!

I hope his CO$ handlers are dumb enough to sign-off on this.

[Maharincess]

What Katie said had nothing to do with Tom or his cult. She said she's sorry for upsetting Leah and wished her the best. How does that go against non disclosure agreement?

He's a fucking fruit loop.

[Maharincess]

Yeah, something is off with this whole story, nothing adds up.

[Wings]

What Katie said had nothing to do with Tom or his cult. She said she's sorry for upsetting Leah and wished her the best. How does that go against non disclosure agreement?

He's a fucking fruit loop.

 

I would use the word prick, cereal is way too cute.   It implied she did something wrong and COS maintains Leah is in the wrong.  Since it was Tom's marriage, too, he is implied in the wrong.  A court of law would not see it this way but I believe COS will harass her. 

[Maharincess]

That's true Wings, I love cereal so I shouldn have made that comparison. Cereal is good, Cruise is more like the nastiness that's left in the coffee pot after its been sitting all day.

Prick is a good word, but they can also be good. Lol. We need a name for the little jerk.

[ari333]

How about colossal turd? :)

[ElleBee]

I thought this one was kind of interesting. My parents are immigrants from (western) Europe, so I can definitely appreciate that cultural differences can influence reactions, but there are limits. I think it's pretty universal that if you're truly upset about something, like traumatically watching your fiance drown, you're going to have a very difficult time keeping it together, regardless of cultural background or however much you've been conditioned to be stoic or strong. But everyone's different, and one thing I've learned from watching these types of shows is there's no one "normal" reaction, especially if you're in shock. Some of those who've seemed most "off" have turned out to be innocent, and vice versa.

 

As for the interrogation, unless they were showing very unrepresentative snippets, it didn't seem like the normal situation where someone would falsely confesses. Granted it was long, and I'm sure she was tired, but they didn't seem to be badgering, threatening or coercing her. I think there are legitimate cases where someone has been bullied into false confessions, so it annoys me if people are stupid enough (or whatever the reason) to confess, regret it later once they talk to a lawyer, and then use a "I didn't really confess--the police told me it was therapy!" false-confession excuse. (Therapy? How naive can someone be?!)

 

One thing I didn't understand was the test of the kayak plug. It seemed like when the expert mimicked waves, the kayak did take on a lot of water (unlike when he tried pouring the water directly into the hole). Doesn't that kind of substantiate the theory that pulling the plug could have caused a capsize, since the water was really choppy that day? I may have missed something, but it seems like they decided his test proved that puling the plug wouldn't have a major influence. I also think their test with the other kayaker was flawed, since the weather looked calm that day and the guy was a kayaking expert, who could probably deal with adverse situations more easily then someone who kayaks as a hobby. Apples and oranges, IMO.

 

Anyway, who knows... It seems like a really strange way to kill someone--too many variables--but IMO her various pseudo-confessions seemed genuine, so I'm inclined to think she did it.

[Wings]

I think he might be more insulted if we called him Shorty.  

[Maharincess]

Love it.

[Maharincess]

Again...holy shit.

Scientology has something called the "Fair Game" policy, which says in Leah's book, "anyone against scientology may be deprived of property or injured by any means by any scientologist without any discipline of the scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed".

Yikes.

[bosawks]

Again...holy shit.

Scientology has something called the "Fair Game" policy, which says in Leah's book, "anyone against scientology may be deprived of property or injured by any means by any scientologist without any discipline of the scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed".

Yikes.

Don't Scientologists just call lying/tricking/destroying someone Tuesday.....

[ari333]

Maharincess after I finished that podcast that I mentioned I think you'd love the Steven Hassan book. He wrote it initially in 1988, but re wrote it or added to it and re released it recently so it includes all the recent news and juicy bits. He really goes off on Scientology

[Wings]

Tom has to experience a fall with all this new exposure.  Has to.   People who knew little about COS will read Leah's book. 

[Neurochick]

I don't think she did it. Did they explain what she had to gain by his death?

I don't know. Maybe he was a jerk and she's glad he's dead, but that doesn't make her a killer.

And her "confession?". The woman sounded exhausted, like, "whatever you want me to say, I'll say it."

Edited November 8, 2015 by Neurochick

[RedheadZombie]

I think Dateline did a far better job on this story. The kayak plug had been pulled out months earlier, which she volunteered. I don't think she told them she tampered with the oar, which functions fine without the ring. Dateline also had an expert who watched her entire interrogation, and called it classic false confession. I think they also failed to mention how drunk he was, unless I missed it.

[Trace]

I did not know that, thanks for the (also weird) info. If anyone has any suggestions for a thread name, throw 'em on out there!

 

Xenu is the author of confusion!

[Rickster]

I don't think she did it. Did they explain what she had to gain by his death?

Beneficiary of his life insurance.

I tend to think he capsized by himself, but for whatever reason, she was not inclined to try to rescue him. And the drain plug had nothing to do with it.

[Wings]

My book came today.  Grabs you from page one.  Ahhhhhhhhhhhh.  Today is lost, you will find me on the couch.  

[Kromm]

Xenu is the author of confusion!

I dunno. Ol' Xeeeny seems like a pretty straightforward dude to me.  See a threat, toss it in a volcano!  Easy peasy!

[Maharincess]

See you in a day or two wings! I finished it last night. I kept saying just one more page and then read until I was done.