S02.E03: Hugs Can Be Deceiving

[David T. Cole]

Piper is challenged by her Soso experience; Morello gets her heart broken; a figure from Taystee's past arrives to disturb the status quo.

[CofCinci]

I'd probably feel more empathy for Morello if she wasn't racist.

V is moving up the prison ranks quickly and all it took was cigarettes and cake.

Those scenes with little Suzanne are killing me.

[Mya Stone]

Suzanne's childhood is breaking my heart. More accurately, her mother's defense of her is breaking my heart. As a mother, I can totally relate to wanting your child to fit in and be given a chance. It's refreshing to see that the tired trope of "Parents adopted child gets replaced by new baby they conceived" not play out that way.

Thank GOD (and I'm an atheist) that Pennsyltucky's got new teeth. (I realize they are Taryn Manning's own set, but man...between meth mouth and summer teeth - some er here, some er there - I couldn't stomach it any more.) Bad teeth is my kryptonite.

I don't think Lorna is racist, more like it's "Your own tribe" type thing. I think race and race wars is going to be an ongoing and larger theme this season.

[crazycakes]

I love Suzanne so much. Her character is just fascinating to me, and yes, her back story is heartbreaking. Her mother wanted so badly for Suzanne to fit in and be accepted - which is also all Suzanne herself wants too - but it's so hard for a child who is different. Do we know the nature of Suzanne's mental issues? She almost seems to have autism, with her sensory issues and at the end when she commented that her hair was "how I've always done it".  I'm a bit scared for her, since Vee is obviously very manipulative and Suzanne is so desperate for friends. She will be easy to turn into a pawn.

 

I 100% agree with the race/"tribe" theme playing an important role this season. Seems like they're setting it up for a showdown between the blacks, whites, and Hispanics. 

[bravelittletoaster]

Personally I loved the moment when Suzanne's mom showed up with the two girls for the sleepover and I had the epiphany, "Oh my God, it's Piper!" Ha! I actually said it out loud. I wasn't actually expecting them to then thoroughly connect the dots for us by having Suzanne call Piper "mommy" during the fight scene, but I suppose they maybe had to for some viewers. still thought that was a good Aha moment to see why Suzanne's always been fixated on her.

With Piper back at the Litch the show finally feels like it's firing on all cylinders for me. I'm a fan of both her and Nickols so I enjoyed Nicky forcing the issue in re: Alex.

I enjoyed the ensemble more this episode and am intrigued to see how Vee is going to continue to shake up dynamics.

[Happy to be here]

Nobody smokes anymore.  Most of the time I can fanwank it but in prison shows it gets kinda glaring.  

 

Suzanne has always been fun and it was nice to see her back story and seeing the last few moments of the EPICFIGHT does explain a few things.    I guess Suzanne's mother wanting her to fit in so much and trying so hard did have a weird reverse effect of Suzanne's personality.  

 

I loved all of Piper's scenes.  LoneWolfPiper.  

 

I felt sorry for Lorna.  Lorna isn't a racist, at least not an overt one.   And yes this is so going to be the season of race and tribe now that Vee is in Lichfield the blacks have someone to lead them which have been lacking until now.  

[ridethemaverick]

Suzanne's mom was one of those well meaning white people who missed the mark a little. She adopted a 1) black child who 2) had serious issues. She placed her in an all white environment and then tried to force her to fit in. It was a disaster on many levels.

It's great that she gave Suzanne a home but clearly some things were missing. In one moment, Vee gave Suzanne some of what she missed out on all her life.

This season is going to be so interesting with the racial dynamics coming more into the forefront. I love where they're going with this!

[crazycakes]

Suzanne's mom was one of those well meaning white people who missed the mark a little. She adopted a 1) black child who 2) had serious issues. She placed her in an all white environment and then tried to force her to fit in. It was a disaster on many levels.

 

Yes, you hit the nail on the head with this. 

[Happy to be here]

Suzanne's mom was one of those well meaning white people who missed the mark a little. She adopted a 1) black child who 2) had serious issues. She placed her in an all white environment and then tried to force her to fit in. It was a disaster on many levels.

 

 

Then we have people like Taystee who spent her entire life looking for a family.  Is she better off never having one and being left to the streets and someone like Vee who pretends to love her but only uses her?  Suzzanne's mother tried to love her but failed not because she didn't try but only because she was unable to understand her needs.

Edited June 7, 2014 by ChaosTheory

[ridethemaverick]

Then we have people like Taystee who spent her entire life looking for a family. Is she better off never having one and being left to the streets and someone like Vee who pretends to love her but only uses her? Suzzanne's mother tried to love her but failed not because she didn't try but only because she was unable to understand her needs.

As I said, it's great that she gave her a home and she definitely meant well.

[Brn2bwild]

My favorite episode so far.  The only thing that bugs me: why are all white families portrayed as rich and repressed on this show?

[EmZeeGee]

I need to tease out the thoughts in my head a bit more, but I was pretty surprised the show came out so hard against interracial adoption. The frequent use of Suzanne's hair as a fulcrum for understanding her Blackness and her difference from her family really hammered the point home. And the psychosexual mommy issues that Suzanne has going on considering Piper as a stand-in for her own mother.... sheesh. Something I've really got to think about.

[HeySandyStrange]

 

Suzanne's mom was one of those well meaning white people who missed the mark a little. She adopted a 1) black child who 2) had serious issues. She placed her in an all white environment and then tried to force her to fit in. It was a disaster on many levels.

It's great that she gave Suzanne a home but clearly some things were missing. In one moment, Vee gave Suzanne some of what she missed out on all her life.

This season is going to be so interesting with the racial dynamics coming more into the forefront. I love where they're going with this!

 

I don't know. While there is no denying that race is a huge part of it, I can't help but thinking Suzanne would have had difficulty no matter what family or envirnoment she was a part of.  Suzanne has some deep (if undefined) mental and social issues. If her childhood was any indication, she had them from a very young age.  I would think ANY family would have had a hard time dealing with it, black or white, rich or poor.  I mean, even in prison Suzanne has a hard time fitting in.  She seems to be seen as a "special" person by the other black imates, a freak or weirdo by most everyone else. And Vee the master manipulator saw that a mile a way. I worry about Suzanne now that she under Vee's spell. 

 

 

I need to tease out the thoughts in my head a bit more, but I was pretty surprised the show came out so hard against interracial adoption.I need to tease out the thoughts in my head a bit more, but I was pretty surprised the show came out so hard against interracial adoption.

 

I don't know if the show is against interracial adoptions in particular, but one could come to the conclusion that the show is against families in general.  Piper's family is uptight and repressed, Aleida wasn't a great mom to Daya and the rest, Vee and Taystee, and probably other examples I forgot or have yet to come. Really not much in the way of positive family dynamics.  I give Suzanne's family points for effort, I thought in the beginning they were going to drop her after the birth of their daughter but they all seemed to really care about her.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I love that Piper now has her own Piper.

[Dusty]

So...Suzanne graduated from high school in 2000.  It's 2014.  14 years has been hard on her mother.  She has not aged well.

 

 

And Vee the master manipulator saw that a mile a way. I worry about Suzanne now that she under Vee's spell.

Yeah I worry for Suzanne with Vee too.  She is literally the worst person for her but Vee is probably the worst person to be allied with for anyone.

 

Lorna's left eye was totally distracting me during that phone scene.  It looked crazy red to me, that's all I could pay attention to.  Her other eye looked fine.  I kept wondering if there was a fight I missed.

[bravelittletoaster]

I love that Piper now has her own Piper.

You and I are on opposite ends of the liking Piper spectrum, but I actually love that too.

I almost feel like Soso (love the name) is the show trolling fans. "Oh, you thought Piper was annoying? Check this shit out."

[Happy to be here]

I almost feel like Soso (love the name) is the show trolling fans. "Oh, you thought Piper was annoying? Check this shit out."

 

 

I never thought Piper was annoying.  I thought Piper just asked questions that probably we all wanted to be asked that really shouldn't have been asked because really...prison but yeah Soso is so Piper's Piper.  

Edited June 7, 2014 by ChaosTheory

[bravelittletoaster]

Yeah, I don't think she's annoying either, but I know a lot of people do. A lot of people who spend a lot of time posting about tv on online message boards from their white collar jobs but somehow think they'd fit into prison so much better than Piper does. :)

I love seeing send ups of her and her yuppie world, but it's because I relate to it.

I love the rest of the show too, but I need that balance of her world and everyone else's. Take her out if the mix and it would throw off the recipe in a way that wouldn't work for me anymore. But this episode found equilibrium in that respect, so it was the first of this season that felt genuinely like OITNB to me.

[purplemouth]

The girls who played Young Suzanne were so great! I was so happy to get more of her story.

 

Vee is going to be trouble.

[lisalionheart]

While there is no denying that race is a huge part of it, I can't help but thinking Suzanne would have had difficulty no matter what family or envirnoment she was a part of.  Suzanne has some deep (if undefined) mental and social issues. If her childhood was any indication, she had them from a very young age.  I would think ANY family would have had a hard time dealing with it, black or white, rich or poor.  I mean, even in prison Suzanne has a hard time fitting in.

 

I agree with this. I hope we see adult Grace--Suzanne's sister--sometime this season.

 

The girls who played Young Suzanne were so great!

 

They really were impressive.

 

Soso talking about her WWOOFing experience cracked me up. She really is out-Pipering Piper.

[GoldenHera]

Then we have people like Taystee who spent her entire life looking for a family.  Is she better off never having one and being left to the streets and someone like Vee who pretends to love her but only uses her?  Suzzanne's mother tried to love her but failed not because she didn't try but only because she was unable to understand her needs.

 

Suzanne's mom was incredibly well meaning but completely out of her depth. If anything, I think the show isn't so much railing against families but not being truthful in familial relationships. With Piper's family, her mom had on blinders to keep up appearances. With Suzanne's family, the mother at least had on blinders in regard to Suzanne's clear mental health issues. It was easier for Piper's mom to deal with an "unruly" child than combat her husband's infidelity. It was easier for Suzanne's mom to see racist exclusion among her peer group and not Suzanne's need for help. And with Taystee, that familial bond was based on manipulation, another untruth. 

 

Interracial adoptions are often sticky though and I could see how this aspect of Suzanne's family contributed to her problems. I know a couple of people adopted into white families. A lot of times they were raised with the "colorblind" mindset or there were a lot of attempts to draw things back to Africa/China when their adoptees were America and not first generational. It's tough, as all adoptions are, regardless of race. 

[maraleia]

I love Soso and her brand of crazy irritations. Also, it's nice to see an Asian Character that doesn't fall into stereotypes. I thought Piper was going to punch her in the face.

[Happy to be here]

I'd probably feel more empathy for Morello if she wasn't racist.

 

 

I don't think Morello is a racist.  I think she is more ignorant then racist.   She is ignorant to the fact that what she is saying is racist.  I know people like that.  

[Pixel]

As this isn't Vee's first time behind bars - and it was established her reputation was known - I assumed Morello's comment was a nod to her awareness that Vee's strategy is to divide and conquer by race and a swipe at Vee having not yet set up her network to accommodate her every need.

 

Morello didn't know Vee's history and reputation at that point.  I read Piper Kerman's book and the prison is cleary separated into tribes, so while Lorna may not be racist in the outside world, on the inside world the race lines are clearly defined into tribes and she was just behaving in the way the prison culture dictated.

[Sheenieb]

I think Lorna is racist. Didn't she say that she was only giving Soso the toothpaste and toothbrush because she didn't look fully Asian?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

You and I are on opposite ends of the liking Piper spectrum, but I actually love that too.

I almost feel like Soso (love the name) is the show trolling fans. "Oh, you thought Piper was annoying? Check this shit out."

I both love and hate that Piper has not yet realized the parallels between Brook and herself. But half the shit Brook says sounds like it could have come straight out of Piper's mouth (pointless rambling story about her name being Brook, not Brooke - check, randomly mentioning when she was WWOOFING without any explanation but expecting Piper to know what she was talking about - check, asking relentlessly endless questions - check, having no filter for her thoughts on prison or steam of consciousness babbling - check).

[bravelittletoaster]

Except she does that to a far greater degree than Piper ever has, so to me it reads like a send up of what people say about Piper's character, which I've always thought was greatly exaggerated beyond what we've ever seen on screen.

[JayInChicago]

I only just watched this episode an hour ago, but did we find out what Soso went to prison for?

[MizStaken]

Re: Soso:

They mention something about a political protest later on.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Cranberry
No untagged spoilers for episodes past this one, please!

[gwlisa]

The thing that made me really irritated was Suzanne's mother just showing up with her to the birthday party uninvited. That other mother would have been justified for a verbal smack down in saying look, it's not about race, it's a party for six year olds and other girls have older sisters not attending, but thanks for calling me a racist. Suzanne's mom is oblivious. She's protected Suzanne for so long she didn't see she's forced her into situations that she shouldn't even be in.

[Portia]

The thing that made me really irritated was Suzanne's mother just showing up with her to the birthday party uninvited. That other mother would have been justified for a verbal smack down in saying look, it's not about race, it's a party for six year olds and other girls have older sisters not attending, but thanks for calling me a racist.

That bothered me, too. I've been in that mom's situation, where a parent brought along an uninvited sibling and suddenly I have to pay for an extra go-kart ticket and figure out which kid doesn't get a party favor.

 

5-year-old Suzanne? with her fairy wings?  I want to adopt her . . . but sadly, I am even whiter than her adoptive parents.

[bravelittletoaster]

I'm not convinced the show wanted us to see her parents in the wrong so much as it just wanted to convey it's a difficult situation with no clear cut solution.  What would have happened to young Suzanne had she not been adopted by well-meaning upper middle class white people?  It's not clear, but obviously one alternative scenario presented by the show is that no one adopts her ever and she ends up shuttled around in group homes.  Lbr, she was far less adoptable than Taystee, and she never found a "forever family."  I think Suzanne's as functional as she is [and clearly erudite, as we learned last season] because of the loving care of her adopted parents, who still are very proactive in caring for her as an adult.  I can't see that she was worse off for their intervention.

Edited June 8, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[junemeatcleaver]

That's the wonderful thing about this show, there's no easy answer for why any of the women are the way they are.

 

Suzanne's flashbacks really got to me.  It makes me sad that she's susceptible to Vee's manipulations, but it seems she's been starved for maternal affection most of her life.  I'm looking forward to see how it works out even though I know it's probably going to break my heart.

 

Morelli's a bit of an ignorant asshole, but I can't totally dislike her.  I think her outside world prejudices are just magnified in prison due to the "tribes."

[bilgistic]

Thank GOD (and I'm an atheist) that Pennsyltucky's got new teeth. (I realize they are Taryn Manning's own set, but man...between meth mouth and summer teeth - some er here, some er there - I couldn't stomach it any more.) Bad teeth is my kryptonite.

This is the dumbest thing, but thank you for spelling her nickname "Pennsyltucky" rather than "Pennsatucky"! I don't know why it bothers me, and I haven't looked it up on the show's site to see what it's "supposed" to be, but it makes complete logical sense that it's "Pennsyl"(vania) not "Pennsa"--as in Pennsylvania-Kentucky. I told you, I know it's dumb, but it bothers me so much. Not as much as those rotten teeth, though.

[egavasc]

This is the dumbest thing, but thank you for spelling her nickname "Pennsyltucky" rather than "Pennsatucky"! I don't know why it bothers me, and I haven't looked it up on the show's site to see what it's "supposed" to be, but it makes complete logical sense that it's "Pennsyl"(vania) not "Pennsa"--as in Pennsylvania-Kentucky. I told you, I know it's dumb, but it bothers me so much. Not as much as those rotten teeth, though.

I support the Pennsyltucky spelling so much because it makes SO much more sense, but according to the show it is indeed Pennsatucky and they're certainly not pronouncing the "syl." Dumb things are dumb. 

[gwlisa]

That bothered me, too. I've been in that mom's situation, where a parent brought along an uninvited sibling and suddenly I have to pay for an extra go-kart ticket and figure out which kid doesn't get a party favor.

5-year-old Suzanne? with her fairy wings? I want to adopt her . . . but sadly, I am even whiter than her adoptive parents.

I'm glad someone else viewed it that way. Not everything is about race. It's about putting the birthday mom in an awkward situation and I felt really bad for that mom. Don't know why that stood out so much to me. I would've told Suzanne's mom what I thought but she is probably so entrenched in her mindset she can't see reason but rather everything is race bait.

I found it interesting the nurse at the hospital doing hair was black too. Just a subtle nod that Suzanne wasn't getting her needs met by her white mother. Maybe Suzanne sawVee as the black nurse and Piper as her adopted mother.

[joanne3482]

She almost seems to have autism, with her sensory issues and at the end when she commented that her hair was "how I've always done it".

 

I wondered about that too. She self-stims when agitated or upset and has poor impulse control. She's obviously had people working with her on appropriate behavior. Based on the people with autism I worked with in the distant past, many aspects of her fit that bill. 

 

I would've told Suzanne's mom what I thought but she is probably so entrenched in her mindset she can't see reason but rather everything is race bait.

 

Suzanne's mom had her for sure. It's hard to defend yourself against racist accusations without digging yourself into a deeper hole. I'm sure it was also hard with Suzanne's excited little face staring at her all ready to go. I wouldn't have been able to say no. 

[Ameliabedilia]

This is the dumbest thing, but thank you for spelling her nickname "Pennsyltucky" rather than "Pennsatucky"! I don't know why it bothers me, and I haven't looked it up on the show's site to see what it's "supposed" to be, but it makes complete logical sense that it's "Pennsyl"(vania) not "Pennsa"--as in Pennsylvania-Kentucky. I told you, I know it's dumb, but it bothers me so much. Not as much as those rotten teeth, though.

This drives me insane actually.  I really like the show, but some of the mistakes are rather glaring to me...

Some of the continuity errors are annoying and also, the show works so hard at getting the backstories right in the time and place and then they have something that is clearly from another time.  

I need to stop looking at the trees and start looking at the forest.  

[Mya Stone]

I will continue believing that it's Pennsyltucky. I can't abide it any other way. I'm a stickler like that. :p 

[catalogrrr]

I found it interesting the nurse at the hospital doing hair was black too. Just a subtle nod that Suzanne wasn't getting her needs met by her white mother. Maybe Suzanne saw Vee as the black nurse and Piper as her adopted mother.

 

I also found that interesting, and that the nurse seemed to styling Suzanne's hair into the style that she's kept ever since. Poor Suzanne, so starved for love and acceptance.

[Iseut]

I wasn't too excited when they announced that Lorraine Toussaint's new character would be "shaking things up" at the prison this season, because I love my show and I fear change. I'm completely impressed so far, though. Vee is fascinatingly menacing and manipulative, and I love her different connections and interactions with the characters. 

 

I love how they showed the Taystee and Suzanne flashback episodes right next to each other. You see how the two women had completely different upbringings and backgrounds, yet Vee managed to ensnare them both and capitalize on their weaknesses and need for love.

 

Poussey and Taystee's friendship is one of my favorite things about the show, so I loved that Poussey had heard about Vee ("Wait...that's VEE Vee?!?") and was skeptical even as the others stepped up for the cake.

[piewarmer]

The show's based on the book, and the character is named Pennsatucky in the book, so Pennsatucky is correct in the discussion of OITNB.  I feel your pain a little bit, though - it's hard for me to type Taystee, for example :^)

[RadiantAerynSun]

Have only watched these 3 eps so far but this was the first one that really "felt" the same as last season to me and I really enjoyed it. Or maybe I was just excited to get a Crazy Eyes backstory!

 

Pennsyl/Pennsatucky doesn't really bother me, I assumed the nickname was given by rednecks or prison inmates who probably wouldn't understand the distinction. I forget, did we get an explanation for why she is called Pennsa-tucky? Kentucky I could buy as she is obviously southern, but Pennsylvania's a northern state... what is the gag with the nickname? I also at one point wondered if the Pensa came from Pensacola since that is at least in the south.

[Lovecat]

Kentucky I could buy as she is obviously southern, but Pennsylvania's a northern state...

Pennsyltucky's a pretty common nickname for the part of the state in the no-man's land in the middle of the state.  I was born and raised (and still live) in Eastern PA, and I've heard it pretty much my whole life.

[smrou]

. I forget, did we get an explanation for why she is called Pennsa-tucky? Kentucky I could buy as she is obviously southern, but Pennsylvania's a northern state... what is the gag with the nickname?

Pennsyltucky is a nickname used for the parts of Pennsylvania outside of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh that are rural and...well, let's just say the nickname is not complimentary about those regions of Pennsylvania.  I have a sister who lived for a number of years in PA and I learned the Pennsyltucky nickname from her.

 

My understanding is that in the book, Pennsatucky is from Pennsylvania, so the nickname actually makes sense.  But on the show she's not, so it doesn't.  I really don't know why they changed her hometown on the show because it pretty much removes any sense from her nickname.

Edited June 9, 2014 by smrou

[bravelittletoaster]

And yet the tv Pennsatucky is from Waynesboro, VA [not PA, which was confirmed by Taryn in an interview saying her character is from a mountain town in Virginia].  Pennsatucky in the book was actually a friend of Piper's and was indeed a redneck from PA.  Being from that part of PA myself, and identifying much more closely with Piper than with Doggett, personally, I'm happy they made the switch to Waynesboro, though I'm not sure why they did.  Probably some inside joke.  All the book characters who ended up on the show morphed a little bit.

 

ETA: Actually there is a shit ton of meth in the "valley" which is where Waynesboro is, so I figured that had something to do with her being from there.  A friend is a public defender for that very town and the surrounding county, so it cracked us up that Doggett would have been one of her clients.  

Edited June 9, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[kitcloudkicker]

Pennsatucky makes more sense as a spelling to me, because as a nickname that you're going to be calling a person repeatedly, you're likely to slur it into "PennsAtucky" as you say it. Spelling it Pennsyltucky (for the character, not the region) strikes me as unnecessarily pedantic. But thats my hangups. Also, as someone who went to college in the heart of "Michiana" I don't have a lot of respect for the integrity of annoying state portmanteaus. ;)  

[RadiantAerynSun]

 

And yet the tv Pennsatucky is from Waynesboro, VA [not PA, which was confirmed by Taryn in an interview saying her character is from a mountain town in Virginia].

 

:D I was actually right in that area last weekend, no kidding. I know people that live there and they are really nice southern gentlemen... so that is hilarious lol.

[bravelittletoaster]

Aw, so you were in my neck of the woods.  Charlottesville's about 20 minutes and 75 years away, though.   ;)

[SeanC]

Kentucky I could buy as she is obviously southern, but Pennsylvania's a northern state... what is the gag with the nickname?

James Carville's famous adage is that Pennsylvania is Pittsburgh and Philadelphia with Alabama in between.