S04.E08: The Mountain And The Viper 2014.06.01

[Historybabe]

I had a bad feeling about Oberyn when he kept dancing around the Mountain, yelling for him to confess, instead of just finishing him off. So much for my new favorite character. Pedro Pascal, I will miss you! I did love Jaime's smile when he thought that Oberyn had won, though.

I wonder how Tyrion is going to get out of this, unless he isn't? After all, this is the show where no one is safe.

As for Sansa, good for her, I'm glad she's now figuring out how to play the game. I really don't think LF had any idea about what she was going to say. He owes her now, and it don't think she trusts him. I think she's playing him.

Loved Arya laughing when she and the Hound found out that Alyssa was dead.

It's about time that Mance Rayder's army reached the Wall. The Sam/Gilly storyline hasn't been my favorite but I must say I was relieved that Ygritte didn't kill her. I'm sure that's going to have implications down the line.

I suspect that Theon/Reek was about to break when that guy at Moat Caelin sunk the ax into the commander's head. I wonder what will finally bring that about, because I can't possibly see Theon continuing to be Reek forever. That would be too easy for Ramsay. Speaking of which, I also was surprised that Roose Bolton actually kept his promise to Ramsay and made him a Bolton.

[remdvm]

I'm not sure why so many people are weirded out about Littlefinger and Sansa.  Why are people calling him a pervert?   In the world of Westoros, Sansa is woman, capable of marraige and child bearing.  She is married, to an older man (maybe older than Littlefinger).  My impression from watching the show is that usually the young girls often marry much older men.  Sansa would be wise at this point to hitch her star to Littlefinger, at least for a while.

[paigow]

No, I would've laughed, too. Supposedly, Lysa is her last living relative. To have journeyed all that way to find out she'd just died...the absurdity of it would've struck me funny as well.

Uncles Edmure & Blackfish are still supposedly alive but not in any position to help. Hope to get an update on them sometime. Looking at you ravens!  

[Earl Is Dead]

My cousin, the bookwalker, lead me to believe that was not going to be the outcome. MY COUSIN LIED!

My most outstanding question is whether Sansa is finally taking action or still being played. I really want the former to be true.

[TooMuchCoffee]

So I guess Myrcella won't be getting that sailboat for her name day. 

[dramachick]

Prince Oberyn fan club:

 

 

Good night, sweet Prince.

 

[happybumblebee]

Goodnight sweet Prince. I will miss you terribly.

[Mya Stone]

Prince Oberyn fan club:

 

 

Good night, sweet Prince.

 

Best use of a Tyra gif I've seen. 

[TV Anonymous]

Ayoye, the House Bolton really has no sense of honor even in times of war, does it? First Lord Bolton arranged the massacre of Robb Stark et al. while they were guests and now Ramsay slaughtered a surrendering enemy under the truce by the white flag?

[Cyranetta]

Arya's almost maniacal laughter was echoing off the walls of the Vale, and I wondered if Sansa might have heard it and thought it was some sort of hallucination.

[TooMuchCoffee]

My cousin, the bookwalker, lead me to believe that was not going to be the outcome. MY COUSIN LIED!

My most outstanding question is whether Sansa is finally taking action or still being played. I really want the former to be true.

 

Based on her statements to the Eyrie council, I think Sansa has decided to become a player. I expect a few missteps but I think she has made a smart move and is taking control. 

[wanderwoman]

I REALLY, REALLY wanted them to change the ending of the fight scene and not have my BF die, but alas.

 

Your boyfriend?  Your. Boyfriend?

God dammit.  He's cheating on me!

 

Sheesh.  I barely have words for that battle scene.  Do you think the writers are sitting around like, " no, no....it needs to be bloodier than the red wedding and as twisted as the purple wedding! You know what? F it.  Just make sure the prop department has a cement mixer full of fake blood and viscera on standby."

[mojoween]

Just what Ramsey needs...more power.

I would rather have every woman topless for the rest of the series than watch gruesome shit like Oberyn's head exploding. Which I actually didn't even see, my husband was providing commentary.

I still want to know if Jorah knows his father is dead. Poor Jorah. Dammit Barristan, how dare you judge without allowing a rebuttal.

[MarySNJ]

 

I can't watch Sansa/Littlefinger scenes. It honestly makes me sick. He is such a predator. And I honestly don't know what Sansa is thinking. Has she developed a crush or something? Can someone please clue her into his role in his father's death? She must know that he is not a good man.

I think she does.  Sansa asked Petyr what would have happened to her if he had been executed for Lysa's murder? He said he didn't know, and neither did she. The devil she knows... She knows that she's got one ally in the world right now and he is dangerous and untrustworthy, but at least he doesn't want to kill her or beat her. It helps that the Vale Lords and Lady all know what a nutcase Lysa was, and Sansa didn't really have to lie much. She was able to use a woman's weapons - armored in courtesy, using tears to win the sympathy of the Vale Lords and Lady. She's got one more weapon that she can use on Littlefinger (bleagh) if it comes to that.

 

I still want to know if Jorah knows his father is dead. Poor Jorah. Dammit Barristan, how dare you judge without allowing a rebuttal.

 

Barristan's job is to protect the Queen, and Jorah was conspiring with her enemy and kept it a secret. Unlike Jorah, who looks like a mole, Barristan came to Danaerys straight-up and confessed, after saving her life.That was a self-inflicted wound and Jorah got away with it for a year or two... or however much time has passed in this world.

Edited June 2, 2014 by MarySNJ

[bluvelvet]

When Sansa was sitting there knitting (didn't we see Catelyn doing that a lot ) and looked up at Littlefinger with her big blue eyes you KNOW he was seeing Catelyn reincarnated. His heart probably skipped a beat.

I hope she never uses her "one" other weapon.

Edited June 2, 2014 by bluvelvet

[TooMuchCoffee]

So, did GRRM's wet nurse drop him on his head when he was a baby and we are going to be subjected to several more seasons of him crushing beetles just because he can?

[thuganomics85]

Of course, Ramsey would get his fucking happy ending.  Things always work out for the real bad guys, in the land of Westeros.  Fun seeing Roose again; the actor is perfect in the role.

 

But lets get to the main story: yeah, that was a fucked up ending to the Trial by Combat.  I kind of figured that The Mountain would win, since it would be too easy for Tyrion to survive by another trial by combat.  But it was so frustrating seeing Oberyn have The Mountain's number, have him pretty much dead to rights, but be undone by his need for vengeance and pride.  Knew it wasn't over, but The Mountain crushing his head with his hands was just gruesome as hell!  Damn!  Tyrion is so boned!  I think the only ally he has is Jaime, but I can't see him being able to convince Tywin to do jack.  Yeah, not good.  Farewell, Oberyn.  I hope this leads to even bigger things for Pedro Pascal.  I've seen him in other shows, but this was his biggest role yet, and he more then nailed it. Great show.

 

So, Jorah is finally discovered and kicked to the curve.  On one hand, I can see why Dany could never fully trust him again and be angry.  On the other hand, IMO, he was her best adviser and the only who really challenged her in anyway.  Now, she's just surrounded by yes men and pushovers.  Barristan occasionally questions her, but it usually feels like he usually gives up quickly.  So, in the long run, I think this could be very bad for Dany.  We shall see, I guess.  But, wow, I'm actually curious to see if they are going there with Grey Worm and Missandei.  Considering Grey Worm's... lack of parts, that will be an interesting direction.  Also, I see it was the actress playing Missandei's turn, to do a nude scene.  Welcome to the club!

 

Loved Sansa stepping up to the plate!  Yeah, Littlefinger can't be trusted for much, but I do think he won't harm Sansa because of his lust, and Sansa might as well use that, in this cruel world.  Really great stuff from Sophie Turner in this episode.  Sansa is much more awesome now.  Meanwhile, the other Stark girl: I thought nothing could be The Hound's "Oh, come on!" reaction, to Lysa's death, but Arya just laughing with disbelieve was priceless.  Yeah, at this point, I don't blame her.

 

The Wildings are getting closer!  Glad to see Ygriette is full-blown psycho, and spared Gilly.  Enjoyed seeing Jon and the Night Watch gang, and I hope they figure something out.

 

Two more episodes left! 

[ChangeFate]

Arya laughing it up at her aunts death was hilarious!

[dramachick]

Was that Winterfell that Roose and his evil -- now legitimate -- spawn Ramsey were riding towards?  How many more indignities must the Starks endure?  Roose said that none of the northern lords had seen Bran and Rickon and that they're probably dead.  I think Rickon must have made it to the Umbers by now, so that's a plus that he's being protected.

 

At this point, it looks like they're keeping Theon alive for their amusement.  I hate Theon for the things he's done, but I wish they'd put him out of his misery.

 

 

[Constantinople]

I'll try to focus on the positive.

 

It doesn't look as if the Night's Watch need worry about men sneaking off to the Molestown brothel any more.

 

Missandei is so hot even eunuchs who were castrated as children want her.

 

Sansa is really stepping up her political gamesmanship.

 

Ramsay Bolton has a nice ring to it.  Plus its good to see the next generation take such an interest in tradition

 

Littlefinger's advice to Robin was self-serving, but it was still pretty good advice

 

Arya hasn't lost a sense of humor.

 

No one will forget that fight in a long time.

 

ETA: Daenerys considered the possibility that Jorah's Baratheon pardon was forged.  That was smart.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Constantinople

[Mya Stone]

Was that Winterfell that Roose and his evil -- now legitimate -- spawn Ramsey were riding towards?  

 

I do believe it was, in a shot that mirrored the pilot. 

[placate]

Grey Worm and Missandi in a minor character romance sub-plot?  Not looking forward to that as it seems kinda flat.  With the way Arya has turned out and her ability to laugh about her relatives death, I find myself really wishing that she and Joffrey got into a cage match. 

[peggy06]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

He had him. He had him, but he wasn't satisfied. How utterly awful. I can't imagine what happens now.

 

I predict Dany will very soon regret sending Jorah away.

 

What a downer of an episode.

[profreader]

Pedro Pascal did a fantastic AMA on Reddit this week ("Ask Me Anything" if you're not familiar with Reddit.) He's super charming, humble, and funny. DAMMIT.

 

I thought, aha, the Mountain will be encumbered by heavy armor — the classic "brute strength outwitted by fast-moving intelligence." After he was down, I was muttering "Move away move away MOVE AWAY." For a moment I thought they'd let us have THIS ONE THING but noooo. I wasn't clear on whether the Mountain had received a fatal blow or not. I wanted to smack the smirk off of Cersei's face at the end. 

 

I want to say I'm sure Tyrion will find a way out but that would be sure to jinx it and take Tyrion to the land of "They won't kill Ned, he's the lead!"-ville.

 

I really, really want Arya to finally encounter Sansa. This Arya-arrives-just-a-hair-too-late thing is driving me mad. I was happy to see Sansa finally learn how to play the game. That dress at the end -- she is going to be Littlefinger's match in skillful deception (I hope.)

 

Ramsey Snow-now-Bolton -- I knew a guy who looked eerily like that actor. And he was just as bonkers as the character. I suppose we always need a psycho-loose-cannon to shake things up, but they are the type of character I like the least. Roose Bolton and Stannis Baratheon just come off to me as such humorless types — bitter, sour. 

 

When Daenerys asked, "Do they take both the pillar and the stones?" I had just been wondering the same thing. I bet Grey Worm still has his pillar. Also — I wondered about the wisdom of castrating those who are intended to be soldiers? I don't recall what we learn about the Unsullied — is it done at a late enough age that they develop muscular strength and all that? (I guess it must.) I suppose I don't know enough about what castration does — and um I think I'll stay that way. (RIP Theon's Favorite Toy.)

[JTMacc99]

So in the same episode we get a really nice moment for one of the worst people ever and then the worst thing ever for one of the best people. And yet, I can't wait to see what happens next week.

[atomationage]

I was glad that Sansa got some good scenes.  I just re-watched  S02E01 and it was painful to see her have to grovel for Joffrey.  I thought she was dressed up as a crow, like her half brother Jon. 

 

Tyrion has a death sentence again, but I don't see them getting rid of Peter Dinklage.  Gleeson was a big loss to the show.  They can't afford to lose too many of the best actors.

 

I'm glad that Snowy Egret did one good thing.

 

I hope we see Jorah again in a different part of the story.

[dramachick]

I choose to remember your final moments like this.

 

[Lady S.]

Finally finished the ep, praise piracy. I think a sign that Sansa doesn't really believe Littlefinger is her best friend is calling Tyrion the Imp. Before now, she's been defending him to Littlefinger and Lysa and the last we saw of them, they were actually getting along a lot better at the royal wedding. She actually liked him well enough, but still had every reason not to want to be married to him. What's more, as far as she knows Shae and the Tyrells were her friends too. I liked all the background dropped in that scene, reminding us Ned grew up in the Vale, mentioning Ser Waymar Royce, who was the first guy to meet the white walkers in the pilot, and saying Jon Arryn was the one to hire Littlefinger. Meaning most likely Lysa convinced her husband to hire her lover, meaning Littlefinger really did fuck his way to the top. (I wonder if he was talking about himself when he said something about sickly little boys growing up strong or whatever.)

 

I'm not sure why so many people are weirded out about Littlefinger and Sansa.  Why are people calling him a pervert?   In the world of Westoros, Sansa is woman, capable of marraige and child bearing.  She is married, to an older man (maybe older than Littlefinger).  My impression from watching the show is that usually the young girls often marry much older men.  Sansa would be wise at this point to hitch her star to Littlefinger, at least for a while.

Tyrion and Sansa's marriage was also meant to be an uncomfortable age difference. There's a reason we didn't see them kiss at the wedding and the bedding stopped when she was still in her slip. That said, I'm cool with all of this creepiness as long as Littlefinger dies before deflowering her.

 

I really don't want to know any more about the Unsullied's castration, but Grey Worm still has hands and a tongue.

 

 

Roose Bolton and Stannis Baratheon just come off to me as such humorless types — bitter, sour. 

Roose has a great sense of humor. Remember how he trolled Jaime about Cersei, and pointed out that the Young Wolf was now forever young? What a card.

 

So, the cast spoiled Oberyn's manner of death in a photoshoot, then.

 

Also, really, Oberyn telling Ellaria he'll never leave her alone in this world? That's worse than all those Stark men making promises they can't keep.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Lady S.

[Happy Harpy]

-Freaking:

Wow. I don't know what it says about me and/or about the show that, in spite of Oberyn's head exploding pinata-style, I found the episode thankfully tame. As in "no rape, just gore". Although Ramsay the Ironborn Flayer mentioning taking a bath to Theon was ominous in that way. Brr.

For me, the Boltons are kind of an evil and dangerous version of the Bundys. They have their own completely fucked up family values. Except, unfortunately for the North and the Starks, they aren't cursed with bad luck. Ramsay never looked more sinister to me than when he promised to honor Roose. I don't know how to define it, but it made him more human and more monstruous at the same time. Brr, and brr.

 

-Hating:

I hate Cersei. I hate Cersei so much that less than Tyrion being fucked up, it's that baby-torturing psychopath getting what she wanted and her infuriating smug smile that made me see red.

I never liked Barristan Selmy much, I've always thought he was a self-righteous hypocrite. Now I think he's a fucking idiot, on top of it. Or was the pardon popping up in Mereen part of a Wikileaks type operation in Westeros ?

I hate that Oberyn is dead and Pedro Pascal gone. And that Tyrion is fucked up.

 

-Loving:

Did I hallucinate, or is the Missandei/Greyworm relationship...normal? I mean, based on mutual attraction, respect, affection maybe? It was so...refreshing, cute and I found it very romantic. Of course, I guess it flagged them as the next pinatas. And I like both actors.

Arya and the Hound, of course. It was almost cute, too, how they discussed murder. Williams/McCann nailed it, once again.

Jaime enjoying the fight and rooting for his bro. Take that, Cersei!

The actors of the Vale, Robin and the Lord/Lady. They were very good imo.

 

-Interesting:

Finally! Finally Sansa shows that she has a brain! It was too abrupt, she was still out of her depth and had what I saw as a childish, unwise reaction (slapping Robin) in the previous episode and now she outwits Littlecreeper of all people, but...No more long-suffering stares! She did something, she acted and not just reacted!

Of course, there has to be a worm in the apple. When she stood for Tyrion at the wedding, I though she'd find a backbone for good; now it seems it will be for evil. I thought she was merely shocked when Littlefinger kissed her, but now I wonder...and I wonder if one day I'll feel as sorry for Robin as I feel for Theon right now. Anyway, in her behavior/manners in the last scene, Sansa reminded me of Melisandre.

The most interesting to me is the parallel between the sisters. Arya seemed to be on the highway to darkness, but it seems that so is Sansa and I wonder if she isn't headed for Villaintown.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Happy Harpy

[TrininisaScorp]

Good grief!   Such a slow episode and then BAM!  I've always appreciated Oberyn and the deep pain and anger he felt for the loss of his sister and nieces/nephews.  Of course, this show makes that his undoing.  Indira Varma's character reaction pretty much mirrored mine.  That was a rough death to see, especially when we know he almost had The Mountain, someone who we've been told beats his enemies without breaking a sweat.  So light and fierce on his feet...I'll miss Oberyn.   

 

But now, what's the deal with Tyrion?  We know Tywin and Cersei are all for him dying, but Jamie seems like he's genuinely on his brother's side.  I hope that's true and somehow the two brothers use their brains to get Tyrion not executed.  But, how?!

 

Grey Worm and Missandre are very cute together.  Those actors are both beautiful, so I like their tentative relationship.

 

Bye, Jorah.  Dany was between a rock and hard place:  Do you keep the traitor, who has been useful to you, and try to trust him?  OR do you kick his lying ass out? 

 

Look at Sansa!  That was very well played.  My concern is that while she showed some strong game, Littlefinger is leaps and bounds ahead and more experienced in this chess game.  All I can think is "this is dude that set the entire plot of this show in motion" and I would never underestimate him or try to play him.  I have hope for Sansa because we have to have SOME Starks, right?!  Right?!?!

 

Arya's laugh at her aunt's death and how screwed The Hound is made me laugh and laugh.  For me, Maise Williams played it perfect.  

[Conan Troutman]

First reaction:

Fuck the Mountain!

Fuck Littlefinger!

Fuck Tywin!

Fuck Cersei!

Fuck Ramsay!

Fuck Roose!

Fuck the Wildlings!

Fuck Dany!

Fuck Barristan!

 

But the honor of the day... fuck GRRM!

 

God I'm so fucking angry. And weirdly, thankful. I never thought that would happen. At least, it was surprising. Now, kill absolutely everyone. Team White Walkers!

@GRRM

You are a bastard. A character-killing, trolling bastard.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Conan Troutman

[ganesh]

I'm not a book reader and while I do enjoy the show, I'm not a rewatcher and don't really seek out additional knowledge beyond what's on the screen. I'm like that with my shows. I know I'm not alone in not being surprised how the fight turned out. Tyrion would have had to be lucky indeed to win two Trials, and there isn't really luck on this show. I certainly enjoyed the fight and the ending. Once Ob started whipping himself into a frenzy and started yelling 'who ordered the Code Red?!' and pointing to the stands, I was like, uh oh.

 

However, regardless of these Trials, would it be possible that Tyrion could be pardoned by the King? Or is this it, finalmente. Because by definition of the Trial, it's the gods who are determining the outcome, which I know no one believes, but I assume that's how the law on this would be written. 

 

On a regular tv show, I would say that Tyrion is too good of a character to kill off, but I wouldn't surprised in the least if next week opened up with him getting his head chopped off. 

[BigBeagle]

Re: Jorah ... I felt bad for the guy, but he did have quite a while to come clean about his former transgressions. At least Barriston was upfront about things from the get-go.

 

Re: Sansa ... I like that she's finally wising up, but I doubt seriously she can go toe-to-toe with Littlefinger. IMO, he's the most dangerous man in Westeros.

 

Re: The Boltons ... I'm beginning to get bored with Ramsey. He wants to be Joffrey when he grows up, and we all know what happened to King Joff.

 

Re: Arya ... The laugh was totally priceless, and I'm sure Show will conspire to keep her and Sansa apart.

 

Re: The Wildings ... I think Jon and Ygritte's reunion will be one to remember.

 

Re: Oberyn ... Too bad he never watched "The Incredibles" and learn the danger of monologueing.

 

Re: Tyrion ... If he dies, I'm done with this show.

[Conan Troutman]

However, regardless of these Trials, would it be possible that Tyrion could be pardoned by the King? 

 

Yes please, Tommen do something! Have your mom and grandfather executed while you're at it, too!

 

 

On a regular tv show, I would say that Tyrion is too good of a character to kill off, but I wouldn't surprised in the least if next week opened up with him getting his head chopped off.

 

Yeah, he's a goner now.

 

On the bright side:

- Sansa's getting really good. Loved how she's playing the LF creep card right at him.

- Arya & the Hound are still alive. Probably not for long, though. Damn it, show.

- I don't care anymore. Wasn't shocked at all about Ned or Robb or Cat, but Oberyn and Tyrion? If they kill Arya too, I'm outta here.

[peggy06]

However, regardless of these Trials, would it be possible that Tyrion could be pardoned by the King?

 

 

Yes please, Tommen do something! Have your mom and grandfather executed while you're at it, too!

 

If only! I was too shocked and also hiding my eyes, so thankfully I didn't see Cersei's reaction. That would have been too much.

[CletusMusashi]

The fight didn't occupy as much as the episode ad I expected it to, but that's okay, because ultimately we got what we've really all been waiting two week to see:

an unbelievably long speech about beetles that actually manages to do the impossible and make Peter Dinklage boring.

Maybe his backup plan is he'll tell that same story again, put everybody to sleep, and escape.

I guess maybe it was some kind of foreshadowing. Oberynn died because he wouldn't stop asking a violent moron that same beetle question. But, did we really need that much extrapolation to clarify for us that The Mountain was a crazy violent thug?

The Mountain and The Viper were barely even in this episode. They should have called it "The Beetles and The Stones."

By the way, are there now three songs in Westeros? During that belching contest at the beginning, Castamere and the Bear song were both represented, but what was that other song someone guessed? 

Why, yes, I did find whores belching to be more interesting than the beetle speech.

Edited June 2, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[burntheflaws]

Hello everyone! Long time TWoP lurker who never made an account, but I have too many TV feelings so I've decided to join in on the fun.

 

God damn it, Oberyn.

 

Missandei and Grey Worm were a shining beacon in this episode. Which means one or both of them will be killed before the season's up. Arya's laughter cracked me up, and I approve of Sansa being smart and playing the hand she's been dealt.

 

And I repeat: Damn it Oberyn! I should've known better than to get attached to you, but seriously. You had him. All you had to do was finish him off. Use your head!

 

Sorry. I just had to. That was terrible.

[phoenix780]

As much as I'd like to see Arya connect with a family member (and, who knows, she still might), I do appreciate her being a harbinger of doom.  The Hound wants to sell her to her mother, her mother dies.  Same pattern with the Aunt.  She's terrible luck for these people, and they don't even know it. 

 

I didn't expect that outcome from the big fight at the end.  I don't know why I didn't, because a victory would've been too easy.  

 

Can't believe that the bastard got a real last name.  It'd be nice for a character I like to get rewarded.  Just once.

[bmoore4026]

Of course Oberyn had to die.  Of course.  Because fans can't have nice things.

 

I loved Sansa's dress at the end and I loved how she handled the tribunal.  The pretty princess is starting to grow up.  I'm so proud!

 

The confrontation between Daenerys and Jorah was heartbreaking.  I hope this isn't the last we've seen of him :( 

Edited June 2, 2014 by bmoore4026

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Sansa was sitting there knitting (didn't we see Catelyn doing that a lot ) and looked up at Littlefinger with her big blue eyes you KNOW he was seeing Catelyn reincarnated. His heart probably skipped a beat.

I love that at the end as she was walking down the stairs, she was backlit so you could see her red hair but her face was shadowed so that Littlefinger could imagine she was Cat making his original teenage dreams come true.

[MyRealName]

Ummm, Ok I guess. I have no expectations when it comes to this show. I'll gladly go wherever it wants to take me. Although if they do kill Tyrion, my interest in all the Kings Landing drama will exponentially decrease. I'm thinking/hoping that Pycelle will come back and say that when both champions die, the gods have been satisfied, no more death is required.

 

I'm totally on board with Dany's decision to outcast Jorah. How the heck is she supposed to trust him again? His betrayal, although old, was massive. It was probably the wrong decision in the long run, but I can't fault her for it.

 

Are bastards allowed to earn last names? If so, I have a very hard time believing that Ned would not have given Jon his name. Even if Cat was against it, I feel like he would have made it happen.

 

Lastly, I'm totally on board the Grey Worm and Missandei ship.

[Conan Troutman]

Are bastards allowed to earn last names? If so, I have a very hard time believing that Ned would not have given Jon his name. Even if Cat was against it, I feel like he would have made it happen.

 

If their dads legitimize them, it's game. But this was the first bastard so far, and probably the last. All other dads we've been told about who have bastards are dead. And no one else can. (I hate to say it, but this was maybe the the most lighthearted moment in this episode. WTF?)

 

Anyway, after this show, I've had it with dark and gritty for a while. Doesn't help when the last few other shows I've been (binge)watching were House of Cards, Hannibal and Battlestar Galactica. I'm seriously considering rom-coms...

Edited June 2, 2014 by Conan Troutman

[Hava]

I'm still thinking about this episode hours later. I just...

 

Th Starks, as a family, became a non-factor a while ago, but I still want them to win, dammit! And I want them to reunite and be happy and rebuild Winterfell (which will never happen). But it just makes me so sad and wistful to see the Starks separated and each chance at their reunion frustrated, while the heinous people in this world keep moving forward. I understand that GRRM is trying to subvert the fairytale trope, but it makes me less invested in the show.

 

So, I just hope that Sansa is indeed playing Littlefinger and will not become a willing participant in his schemes. 

 

As for Missendei and Grey Worm--yawn. I'm completely uninterested in a romance between the two of them and, to be honest, it feels out of place. 

[Nihilum]

I loved Jaime smiling throughout that duel, just watching Oberyn, thinking, "he hates my family, but I like this guy's style"

[Lord Cranley]

I like that Missandei got naked.  In a show full of stunningly beautiful women, I think Nathalie Emmanuel just might be the most stunning.  I'm all for the Grey Worm-Missandei romance as long as it means more naked Missandei.

 

About the beetles monologue:  I also thought it was kind of interminable and clunky, and I cringed at the Tyrion-Jaime making "r*****" faces/noises.  But after I took a step back, I think I'm more okay with that scene than I initially was.  That's his BROTHER, the guy he grew up with, has shared his inside jokes with, the only one who left who truly likes him and sticks up for him.  If I had one last moment together with my brother before being sentenced to death, I would also probably reminisce about some stupid memory/inside joke relating to our childhood.  So it was kind of sweet and sad, if you look at that way.  But still boring, and not very well written.

[Etta Place]

Your boyfriend?  Your. Boyfriend?

God dammit.  He's cheating on me!

 

Sheesh.  I barely have words for that battle scene.  Do you think the writers are sitting around like, " no, no....it needs to be bloodier than the red wedding and as twisted as the purple wedding! You know what? F it.  Just make sure the prop department has a cement mixer full of fake blood and viscera on standby."

My husband said, "Well, I guess they have to keep outdoing the last gruesome death."  I didn't watch it past the blood from the eyes, although I did see the aftermath.

 

I enjoyed the bonding between Jamie and Tyrion, although the story could have been a little bit shorter. But it seems like they're just remembering they're brothers, and I like seeing that interaction.

[CeeBeeGee]

Finally finished the ep, praise piracy. I think a sign that Sansa doesn't really believe Littlefinger is her best friend is calling Tyrion the Imp. Before now, she's been defending him to Littlefinger and Lysa and the last we saw of them, they were actually getting along a lot better at the royal wedding. She actually liked him well enough, but still had every reason not to want to be married to him. What's more, as far as she knows Shae and the Tyrells were her friends too. I liked all the background dropped in that scene, reminding us Ned grew up in the Vale, mentioning Ser Waymar Royce, who was the first guy to meet the white walkers in the pilot, and saying Jon Arryn was the one to hire Littlefinger. Meaning most likely Lysa convinced her husband to hire her lover, meaning Littlefinger really did fuck his way to the top. (I wonder if he was talking about himself when he said something about sickly little boys growing up strong or whatever.)

 

Tyrion and Sansa's marriage was also meant to be an uncomfortable age difference. There's a reason we didn't see them kiss at the wedding and the bedding stopped when she was still in her slip. That said, I'm cool with all of this creepiness as long as Littlefinger dies before deflowering her.

 

I really don't want to know any more about the Unsullied's castration, but Grey Worm still has hands and a tongue.

 

 

Roose has a great sense of humor. Remember how he trolled Jaime about Cersei, and pointed out that the Young Wolf was now forever young? What a card.

 

So, the cast spoiled Oberyn's manner of death in a photoshoot, then.

 

Also, really, Oberyn telling Ellaria he'll never leave her alone in this world? That's worse than all those Stark men making promises they can't keep.

 

It's not just Ellaria--HOW many daughters does he have?  At least 5.  His principles are endearing but dude, you have children.  Once you had the guy down, finish it.  Although at least the Mountain (one of my most hated characters ever) is GONE.

 

One more name off Arya's list.

 

I kind of love Missandei and Grey Worm, they're both so beautiful and they both have that "I am determined to prove myself to Your-Grace/Khaleesi/pick-your-sobriquet" ethos.  And how cute was Dany putting up Missandei's hair?!

 

Once Ser Jorah's former betrayal was revealed, it was game over.  She can never trust him again and for someone like Dany, you just can't get past that.  I've been wondering for a couple of seasons ow when that was going to resurface.

 

Nice tiosee that Ygritte isn't completely contemptible.

Once Ob started whipping himself into a frenzy and started yelling 'who ordered the Code Red?!' and pointing to the stands, I was like, uh oh.

 

That was pretty fucking cool.  That was beyond "My name is Ingo Montaya" into LET'S BRING DOWN THIS MOTHER EFFING DYNASTY RIGHT NOW.  Loved it.

[Richness]

*POP* goes the Oberyn. This is why you NEVER monologue when fighting someone. Dammit! So long my sexy pretty, you will be missed. Only John Barrowman can make ovaries and testicles explode more.

 

The Hound's fallen face was only surpassed by Arya's crazy laugh.

 

Except for the last 10 minutes or so, I was mostly bored by this episode.

[Lady S.]

Are bastards allowed to earn last names? If so, I have a very hard time believing that Ned would not have given Jon his name. Even if Cat was against it, I feel like he would have made it happen.

I can't clarify the legitimization process in a no book talk thread, but one big difference is Roose has no legitimate heirs that we know of, and any he has by Fat Walda would be younger than Ramsay. Ned already had Cat knocked up with Robb before Jon was born, and then had four more children by her after that. There aren't clear cut rules on where legitimized bastards fall in lines of succession, Robb as eldest, would still be the heir, but how much does that mean considering what happened to his Uncle Brandon? Eldest sons can die before inheriting even without the help of mad kings, that's why nobles always want more than one. Ned had two spares, but age could have put Jon ahead of them, and even if he still came after Bran and Rickon, gender would probably put him ahead of his sisters. But there really would be no clear rule if something happened to Robb, and birthrights and inheritance is a big deal in this society. That's why Ned was so set on Stannis being Robert's only heir. So yes, Ned could have had Jon legitimatized if he really wanted, he never asked Cat's permission for anything else related to Jon. But he never tried, that was his choice. And Jon, for one, knows that. It always struck me in the pilot how Jon calls him Father the rest of the time but addresses Ned as Lord Stark when convincing to let the direwolf pups live, because there were five pups for the five Stark children. Strangely formal if Ned only thought of Jon's bastardy as an annoying technicality, don't you think? I'm not saying Ned unduly disfavored Jon or loved him any less than the legit Stark kids, but I don't think Jon was being unduly insecure and imagining things in 4.01, when he mentioned being jealous of the way Ned looked at Robb.

 

It's not just Ellaria--HOW many daughters does he have?  At least 5.  His principles are endearing but dude, you have children.  Once you had the guy down, finish it.  Although at least the Mountain (one of my most hated characters ever) is GONE.

 

Nice tiosee that Ygritte isn't completely contemptible.

He mentioned his fifth daughter because she was named after Elia, but before that he said he had eight total. Yes, eight daughters.

 

I see what you're doing, show. Trying to make us like Ygritte again right before the big battle so we care whether she lives or dies.

 

I appreciated the little bit of humor injected with Tywin waving his hand to make Pycelle get to the point.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Lady S.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

how cute was Dany putting up Missandei's hair?!

I loved that moment too. Even though I know Dany is her boss and Missandei is used to being told what to do so realistically the scene could be interpreted as Dany wanting to play doll with her, I thought it felt more like a sisterly/friendly gesture. Dany has very few people she trusts (heh, even fewer now that Jorah is gone) and she hasn't had any females around her for a while. I really hope that she and Missandei end up becoming better friends. I also loved that neither of them knew exactly what is left under the Unsullied's clothes. That moment almost seemed like two adolescent girls talking about boys and trying to figure them out. It's those moments of human interaction that I love.

 

I agree that Dany really had no choice but to rid herself of Jorah. He betrayed her terribly. Even though it ended a while ago, the fact remains that he spied on her and set some things in motion due to that spying. She can't trust him anymore. He's lucky that she spared his life and let him leave. I also agree that this will undoubtedly end up biting her in the ass somehow, but I don't think she could bear to sentence him to death.