S06.E08: Jell-O Shots and the Truth About Santa

[Gothish520]

5 hours ago, MissLucas said:

While Violet is not an easy character to like I appreciate the show for having her there as a somber reminder that despite all the great comedy we get out of Christy and Bonnie's life there's also tragedy. Some of the best episodes have her at the center. I applauded the show for letting her go through with the adoption and then showing the aftermath. She's always been a dire reminder of Christy's failure as a mother - like in the episode where Christy was angry with Baxter and Violet cited the occasions when Baxter was around for her and Roscoe while Christy was AWOL. Sure her sourpuss attitude was often tiring and off-putting but even lucky teenagers with a stable home often go there.

Of course she has a different view on Bonnie and is able to give her a pass. The dynamic is completely different and as has mentioned above she probably has never seen the worst of Bonnie. And we've seen Bonnie being a stable influence on her life during the early seasons - for example when Bonnie was able to bring Christy around to accept Violet's decision to give her baby away.

And I actually have no problems with Violet making money out of her childhood trauma even if that's tough on Christy. In Violet's eyes that's one way to get at least something good out of it. And while Christy can easily point to Bonnie claiming that she had a similar childhood there's one big difference and that's Roscoe. Violet did not only have to fend for herself but also for her little brother. Also: at Violet's current age Christy was nowhere near forgiving Bonnie. Hell, even now she occasionally blames Bonnie for stuff that went wrong - sometimes she's justified and sometimes she's not. And even though it was hard to watch Violet asking Christy to stay out of her life it was the right call.

For all her faults she did actually manage to not have addiction nearly ruin her life and broke out of the Plunkett mould. In her early 20's she's sober, has no criminal record (IIRC) and is no longer living off her boyfriend - that was the one thing I truly did not like about her. She's in a way better place than both her grandmother and her mother where at that point and if she's weary of letting Christy back into her life I can't blame her for that. It seems realistic - with some time she should get to a point where she's ready. Until then Christy has to accept it as part of her making amends. The scene with Bonnie hugging Christy was terrific and scores high on the 'CalltheMidwife' meter (i.e. how many tissues were ruined during watching).

TLTR: Violet might not be a very likable character but I'm siding with her while still feeling for Christy.

And a shout-out to Tammy for bringing some desperately needed comic relief and to Jill for handing out tough but good advice.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I never could stand Violet, and I'm not a proponant of blaming others for one's problems, but damn her childhood does sound like a nightmare. 

That being said, she would do herself a world of good by seeking some help  - even if she never lets Christy back into her life, it would benefit her to let go of some of the pain and anger she has been carrying around.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Gothish520

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Tosia said:

I respectfully disagree.

At meetings you get to hear the stories of other alcoholics which help inform your recovery, as well as getting strength from others, and in AA,  a sponsor to help you.  

Violet is just stewing in her own angry pain and resentment.  She's not going to get any perspective of looking at her story from the outside in. Or how others had it worse,  much worse. Or how alcoholism runs in families and behaviors are repeated generation after generation.  You learn what you see.  Violet will not progress beyond poor me. She needs Al-anon and exposure to other children of ancoholics to understand her situation, and Christy's, and Bonnie's.  

Christy is better off without Violet guilting her, cutting her down, and reminding her of her worst days. Move on. Who wants to be miserable and angry all their life? Or inflict that crap on others?  

 

I wasn’t very clear in the way I worded that. I didn’t mean to compare the podcast to AA in general but rather to Christy’s tendency to blame Bonnie for her problems. Christy constantly reminds Bonnie of all her worst days. Last season Christy’s sponsor pointed it out to her and she changed briefly and then fell back into her old patterns.  

Edited November 17, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

On 11/17/2018 at 5:52 AM, MissLucas said:

While Violet is not an easy character to like I appreciate the show for having her there as a somber reminder that despite all the great comedy we get out of Christy and Bonnie's life there's also tragedy. Some of the best episodes have her at the center. I applauded the show for letting her go through with the adoption and then showing the aftermath. She's always been a dire reminder of Christy's failure as a mother - like in the episode where Christy was angry with Baxter and Violet cited the occasions when Baxter was around for her and Roscoe while Christy was AWOL. Sure her sourpuss attitude was often tiring and off-putting but even lucky teenagers with a stable home often go there.

Of course she has a different view on Bonnie and is able to give her a pass. The dynamic is completely different and as has mentioned above she probably has never seen the worst of Bonnie. And we've seen Bonnie being a stable influence on her life during the early seasons - for example when Bonnie was able to bring Christy around to accept Violet's decision to give her baby away.

And I actually have no problems with Violet making money out of her childhood trauma even if that's tough on Christy. In Violet's eyes that's one way to get at least something good out of it. And while Christy can easily point to Bonnie claiming that she had a similar childhood there's one big difference and that's Roscoe. Violet did not only have to fend for herself but also for her little brother. Also: at Violet's current age Christy was nowhere near forgiving Bonnie. Hell, even now she occasionally blames Bonnie for stuff that went wrong - sometimes she's justified and sometimes she's not. And even though it was hard to watch Violet asking Christy to stay out of her life it was the right call.

For all her faults she did actually manage to not have addiction nearly ruin her life and broke out of the Plunkett mould. In her early 20's she's sober, has no criminal record (IIRC) and is no longer living off her boyfriend - that was the one thing I truly did not like about her. She's in a way better place than both her grandmother and her mother were at that point and if she's weary of letting Christy back into her life I can't blame her for that. It seems realistic - with some time she should get to a point where she's ready. Until then Christy has to accept it as part of her making amends. The scene with Bonnie hugging Christy was terrific and scores high on the 'CalltheMidwife' meter (i.e. how many tissues were ruined during watching).

TLTR: Violet might not be a very likable character but I'm siding with her while still feeling for Christy.

And a shout-out to Tammy for bringing some desperately needed comic relief and to Jill for handing out tough but good advice.

 

I really wish I could like your post more than once. One of the things that initially hooked me on the show was Violet saying that she was giving her baby up for adoption because she wanted to stop the cycle. She often pisses me off but I applaud the show for allowing her to be angry and resentful because it is realistic. 

On 11/16/2018 at 12:34 PM, Chaos Theory said:

I may  probably be in the minority and think the show is missing something without both the kids being at least semi regular characters.  

 

I agree. Hopefully we’ll see both the kids at Bonnie’s wedding. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Guest

[Bastet]

8 hours ago, Tosia said:

Violet is just stewing in her own angry pain and resentment.  She's not going to get any perspective of looking at her story from the outside in. Or how others had it worse,  much worse. Or how alcoholism runs in families and behaviors are repeated generation after generation.  You learn what you see.  Violet will not progress beyond poor me. She needs Al-anon and exposure to other children of ancoholics to understand her situation, and Christy's, and Bonnie's.  

I'm sure she will get feedback, both from other "Christys" and other "Violets," via her podcast.  It's not an interactive show, but wherever she's publishing it will have a means for listener commentary.  Just like AA isn't the only option for recovering addicts, Al-Anon isn't the only option for their children.  If she wants that, or something else, in the future, good for her, but there's nothing wrong with what getting her thoughts and feelings out in something of a vacuum right now.  Marinating in her anger and resentment is even okay right now; she's still very young and only newly on her own, so I'm not making any predictions for her future self's handling of the situation based on what she's doing now.  She has to find her own way, and is in the process of doing that.  If this was how she was handling it ten years down the road, I'd be concerned she will never heal.  Now, though, it doesn't bother me at all.

I'm glad they brought Violet back for something like this -- Christy was already in recovery when we met her, we've seen her progress, and we've seen how she still harbors resentment towards Bonnie, so this was a nice, messy reminder that there's still someone out there feeling the same thing about Christy; the existence of Sober Christy doesn't wipe out what Loaded Christy did.  One of the greatest things about this show is how Christy shows both sides - she's the addict who failed her kids, and the child who was failed by an addicted parent.  Without the kids, it's easy to lose sight of that first part.  Yet I don't miss the kids being around regularly (although it is odd as hell for Roscoe to be inexplicably absent from even her conversation), so something like this works perfectly for me.

I loved this episode, for the messy stuff (Violet should be simultaneously understandable yet hard to take, and not all shows are willing to make non-villains unlikable), for that beautiful hug between Bonnie and Christy as soon as they left Violet's, and for Adam's "Yeah, thanks, you invited a bunch of non-drinkers to my bar opening" frustration.

[Winston Wolfe]

On 11/16/2018 at 8:52 PM, hnygrl said:

He keeps alcohol in the house NOW. There's ALWAYS beer in Bonnie's fridge. Always. How many times has Adam gotten piss faced drunk, or high? In Bonnie's presence?

Heh.  How many people could deal with 365 days a year of Bonnie and Christie stone-cold sober?  But of course, the heart wants what it wants.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Winston Wolfe

[CouchTater]

On 11/16/2018 at 6:57 PM, illdoc said:

You know, I've seen this mentioned several times. As I recall, Christy did gamble the rent money, but won. She was robbed just after collecting the money, however, and no one believed her story.

From what I remember, Christy had gambled away the rent money, borrowed money from Marjorie and Bonnie to partially pay the landlord, then gambled what she'd borrowed, won, and then was robbed.

I guess I'm Team Violet for this episode, except for broadcasting her mom's voicemail without permission.

I don't find Christy to be adorable and cute.  She's a 40+ screw-up who continually screws up.  That's not adorable or cute.  

 And Violet is doing what she learned from her mom:  blaming the mother and dwelling on it.

*Off-topic:  anyone else notice the over-acting that Anna Faris does with her hands?  It drives me bananas!  Her acting choices are a bit broad for my taste.

[Irlandesa]

I found myself on Violet's side for many of the reasons already stated. 

Violet had some growing pains and made some mistakes but she was still pretty young when she made those mistakes.  She was what..17 or 18 at the beginning of the series when she got pregnant.  She was 21 when we last saw her move in with Luke.  She's no more than 23 now and I don't think we know enough about her life to tell whether or not she's doing things "the right way" or not.  It appears as if she's supporting herself and has a nice apartment.

As for the podcast, storytellers (authors, comedians, musicians...etc.) often pour real life into their output.  We know Violet is doing this.  We don't know if it's the only thing she's doing to deal. 

There's this sense that family should always be forgiven but if keeping her distance has done well for Violet then I don't think she needs to sacrifice her apparent equilibrium to reconcile with her mother just because of "family."   Especially because I noticed, as others did, that Christy was more concerned with convincing Violet's audience that she had changed than really acknowledging just how robbed Violet felt by having an alcoholic mother.

[Sarah 103]

On 11/16/2018 at 2:29 PM, bichonblitz said:

I wish Bonnie would have spoken up for her daughter. Knowing what a terrible mother she was herself, she should have a heart to heart with Violet

On 11/16/2018 at 5:03 PM, possibilities said:

I was very disappointed that Bonnie didn't point out to Violet that Christy's childhood was actually as bad or worse than Violet's, and that Bonnie isn't innocent the way Violet portrays her to be.

Yes! I know they needed some comedy in that serious scene but it was a misuse of Bonnie. Violet must have grown up hearing stories about what an awful mother Bonnie had been to Christy. Did Violet think they were all lies or exaggerations? 

On 11/16/2018 at 2:29 PM, bichonblitz said:

Also, Christy was sober the last few years that Violet was living at home and really working on being a good mother. Granted, Christy has years of neglect and broken trust to make up for, it won't happen over night and she knows it, however, she is willing to do whatever it takes but Violet acts like Christy was a falling down drunk until the day she left home.

I totally agree with this. 

[Cancerchic44]

On 11/16/2018 at 8:52 PM, hnygrl said:

  On 11/16/2018 at 7:35 PM, AnnaCody said:

Boy, is Bonnie setting herself up for some major temptation issues in the near future. Her fiance owns a bar and he'll probably keep alcohol in the house after they're married.

The paradoxes on this show amaze me. Christy goes on a couple of dates with the fireman and everyone in the group is freaking out, especially Bonnie, about her possibly relapsing until she finally stops seeing him. Then later Bonnie, who had very recently actually relapsed, goes out with Adam- no big deal. Keep pot and beer in the house-sure. Be too hungover to go places-whatever. Open a freaking bar, great idea! 

Discover your son smoking pot and become a helicopter parent then never see or mention him again.?

Gamble away Regina’s money, she says, “oh well, it’s ok.” So no payback and the AA group says nothing about payback, amends or joining GA. Gamble away rent money, only Alvin suggests payback. Gamble Bonnie’s bail money, different story. Houston, we think we finally have a problem!

Eat at the Bistro entire first season before Jill shows up. Jill joins group and at some point begins paying. Jill quits paying and it’s suddenly too expensive. Even though Bonnie and Christy are in a better financial situation because rent is now free. Then begin eating there again with no problem.

I personally love the Violet character. She’s exactly like the daughter of an alcoholic, drug addict, gambler should be- angry, bitter, and unforgiving. Christy shouldn’t get a pass because she has a cute face. Violet seems to have a home and a job so it sounds like she is better off without her. No one berated Bonnie for not being able to forgive her mother while she was alive. She blamed her mother for everything just like Violet. Maybe that’s why Bonnie is leaving the situation for the two of them to work out, while maintaining a relationship with both.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Cancerchic44

[Blakeston]

22 hours ago, MissLucas said:

And we've seen Bonnie being a stable influence on her life during the early seasons - for example when Bonnie was able to bring Christy around to accept Violet's decision to give her baby away.

The thing is, we saw Christy being a stable influence on Violet's life during the early seasons. She wasn't a perfect mother during that time, but she was there for Violet over and over again.

If a new viewer watched this episode, I think they'd almost certainly assume that Christy's recovery happened after Violet left the house. It felt like a retcon from the writers, because Violet acted like Christy sobering up and being a part of AA was new information for her.

1 hour ago, Cancerchic44 said:

No one berated Bonnie for not being able to forgive her mother while she was alive. She blamed her mother for everything just like Violet. 

That's a very different situation. Bonnie's mother completely abandoned her, and didn't try to make contact until many decades later. And when Bonnie's mother died, Bonnie resolved to stop using her as an excuse for everything. 

If Violet is happier without Christy in her life, that's her call to make. But she's still acting like a brat with the podcast.

[Winston Wolfe]

On 11/17/2018 at 8:52 AM, MissLucas said:

For all her faults she did actually manage to not have addiction nearly ruin her life and broke out of the Plunkett mould. In her early 20's she's sober, has no criminal record (IIRC) and is no longer living off her boyfriend - that was the one thing I truly did not like about her. She's in a way better place than both her grandmother and her mother were at that point and if she's weary of letting Christy back into her life I can't blame her for that. It seems realistic - with some time she should get to a point where she's ready. Until then Christy has to accept it as part of her making amends. The scene with Bonnie hugging Christy was terrific and scores high on the 'CalltheMidwife' meter (i.e. how many tissues were ruined during watching).

This is one of the most thought-provoking threads I've read on this site in a while.  A lot of good perspectives.  My heart goes out to those of you who grew up in alcoholic families.  My dad was a high-functioning (i.e., weekend) alcoholic long before the phrase was even coined.  Reading the comments here have helped me understand Violet's position a bit more, although I still don't like her actions.  It would be great if this show dealt more with the concept of alcoholism/addiction as a disease.  Science has proven that it is to an extent hereditary.  But seeing my dad slowly die of alcoholic cirrhosis of the liver when I was 23 has led to me living the life of a complete tea-totaler.  As another poster said, you live what you learn.  Violet, as far as we know, is living clean and sober, so there's that.  But the hardest part is putting the dysfunctional family dynamic behind you, an issue a lot of us struggle with daily.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Winston Wolfe

[AnimeMania]

I would like to see Violet get some backlash from her listeners, many taking Christy's side. That might make Violet reevaluate her relationship with Christy.

[funky-rat]

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 9:33 PM, greekmom said:

Violet is a little shit for not wanting a relationship with Christie. I mean Bonnie has done as much damage to Christie but Violet sees her as a life preserver??!!

The podcast was hurtful and the fact that she doesn't even want to try to have a relationship was so hurtful to Christie.  Not like Violet was a perfect angel (teen pregnancy, dropping out of college, working in a casino, could have a substance abuse herself...)

She is, to a degree.  She's detaching from her mother, which can be healthy.  Ultimately, I would like to see her in both AA and Al-Anon, because Violet had some substance issues herself on the early episodes.  I don't agree with the life preserver, but that's how Violet sees it, and nothing will change her mind.  By the time Violet came along, Bonnie was still an addict, but apparently not dealing, and all of the other crazy stuff that Christie saw when she was younger.  When Bonnie moved in, she tried hard to make herself look really good - the early eps clearly show it - so she will always see Bonnie in a better light, deserved or not.

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 10:44 PM, Winston Wolfe said:

Christie has always been a very convenient scapegoat for her daughter.  In the past Violet has seen periods of time where she's "doing a lot better," self-sabotages, and the default is to always blame her mother.   Thinking about it, even though she sometimes backslides, Christie has made the most progress of any of the lead characters, guess that's why Violet's strident rejection really impacted me.  Aaargh, too much emotion over a sitcom....

True, but Christie does the same thing to Bonnie.  It's a cycle.

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 6:31 PM, jewel21 said:

I agree with this but I think it's a complicated situation. I grew up with parents who had mental issues, substance abuse issues, and there was some domestic violence thrown in there for good measure. It makes for a kid who, one the one hand, has seen more in their short life than most adults will ever have to see and deal with... In that regard, the child grows up before their time. In some ways, I felt like an old soul, wise beyond my years. And jaded. But at the same time, it's like you end up being emotionally stunted, as well. So you're this weird mix of adult and child. It's hard to explain and I don't know if I'm doing a good job.

It's just that when Violet was mentioning all the things she had to deal with at a young age, and how she never really had a childhood, I completely understood where she was coming from and felt for her. As well, she's also emotionally stunted and as a result can come off immature and petulant and jaded. She didn't have a role model to look up to and, as a result,  I'm not surprised she developed some of the same demons as her mother and grandmother. And true to form, rather than take responsibility for her mistakes, it's easier to blame Christie for them and lash out at her and blame her for her shitty life. You have to make a conscious effort to remind yourself that you can't blame your parents forever, and eventually you have to take responsibility for your own actions. It's just not always easy to do...

No, you hit the nail on the head.  My husband's therapist says he's stunted around age 13.  I'd say Violet is as well.

[theatremouse]

I found this frustrating to watch (which may have been the point) because while I agree in many cases it's healthier and reasonable to cut off contact, even if the parent may indeed have changed, Violet just seemed to be gloating. Like, OK, your life is better without your mother in it, regardless of what she's like now, or you don't forgive her, regardless of what she's like now, OK, but you're making a living talking about her? Not saying she needs to NEVER discuss it ever again, and yeah talking can be cathartic, but Violet seems to want to dwell in what was. She's reliving it, intentionally, with the podcast. But she's also no-contact. When she knows her mother isn't the same, she can't not know, because she has a good relationship with Bonnie. Also Christy was sober when this show started. So Violet lived with her a decent chunk of time when their lives may have still been very stressful due to poverty, but not due to Christy's addictions. Now it may have never felt safe, she may have spent that whole 2 years waiting for the other shoe to drop, but a lot of what Violet was saying was either disingenous, or she's so in need of her own therapy she's just choosing to ignore facts. And choosing to ignore her own issues when she first moved out. Violet's just trying to have it all both ways. She doesn't hold a grudge against Bonnie because what Bonnie did to Christy, Bonnie didn't do to Violet. OK. But Violet must know people are capable of change since Bonnie literally proves it. She doesn't need to forgive her mother; she can say it's too late, we're done anyway but that's not what she said. She was just lashing out. Whatever Christy might have said, Violet would've shut down and said no. So Violet's not in a logical place. Her actions COULD BE reasonable and logical but the dialogue in the episode made it clear that in this case, it's not. She's the same teen throwing a tantrum.

[MissLucas]

3 hours ago, theatremouse said:

Violet lived with her a decent chunk of time when their lives may have still been very stressful due to poverty, but not due to Christy's addictions. 

They got evicted due to Christy's gambling addiction - and as Couchtater wrote above she gambled the rent money away not once but twice. 

[Blakeston]

14 hours ago, MissLucas said:

They got evicted due to Christy's gambling addiction - and as Couchtater wrote above she gambled the rent money away not once but twice. 

I thought she gambled it away once, then had it stolen.

Either way, while I'm sure it sucked for Violet to have to move in with Marjorie temporarily, that didn't seem to be the straw that broke the camel's back. She stayed in Christy's life for a while after that, and they got along much of the time.

I got the impression that in this episode we were supposed to think that Violet really was doing well for herself, and growing. I think that would have come across better if the theme of her podcast had been "my mother was a drunken disaster when I was a child, and now she's changed for the better, but I still have a lot of resentment and issues." As opposed to just "I have the worst mother ever."

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I thought she gambled it away once, then had it stolen.

Either way, while I'm sure it sucked for Violet to have to move in with Marjorie temporarily, that didn't seem to be the straw that broke the camel's back. She stayed in Christy's life for a while after that, and they got along much of the time.

I’ve been rewatching the series. Christy owes three months rent and she did not have enough so she gambled it and lost. Marjorie and Bonnie pull together enough to cover one month to buy more time. Christy gambles that and wins but is then robbed. 

They skipped out on the rent in the middle of the night and went to an awful motel. That motel was raided by the cops in the middle of the night and then they ended up at Marjorie’s.

One thing that stood out in my rewatch is that when the show starts Christy has only been sober for a little over three months. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by Guest

[illdoc]

23 hours ago, Dani said:

One thing that stood out in my rewatch is that when the show starts Christy has only been sober for a little over three months.

They usually end the season with Christy at a meeting saying "I'm now X years sober", i.e. Season one ended with Christy saying "One year sober", etc.

[Cancerchic44]

On 11/18/2018 at 7:46 AM, Blakeston said:

If Violet is happier without Christy in her life, that's her call to make. But she's still acting like a brat with the podcast.

Yes, that’s exactly what I mean to say. Neglected kids growing up with an addict for a parent often grow up to be brats. They haven’t been taught to be nice people. That’s why I don’t understand why everyone hates the fact that she is a brat. That’s real life. Christy gambles away the money of friends, takes their trust and abuses it. She steals, skips out on rent, and does crappy things like that even when she has supposedly turned her life around. Who was she supposed to turn out? Anything above a selfish brat would not be realistic in my view. 

[AnimeMania]

On 11/16/2018 at 3:11 PM, 19Bee63 said:

And Candace!  Of course, this is mainly due to my undying love for Sara Rue.

She was just on the latest episode of "The Rookie".

[SmithW6079]

10 hours ago, Cancerchic44 said:

Yes, that’s exactly what I mean to say. Neglected kids growing up with an addict for a parent often grow up to be brats. They haven’t been taught to be nice people. That’s why I don’t understand why everyone hates the fact that she is a brat. That’s real life. Christy gambles away the money of friends, takes their trust and abuses it. She steals, skips out on rent, and does crappy things like that even when she has supposedly turned her life around. Who was she supposed to turn out? Anything above a selfish brat would not be realistic in my view. 

And, like Violet, Christy also acts entitled when people aren't properly grateful -- e.g., when Jill gave Christy's payment to the maid, which made Christy so mad, she ended up destroying a $3000 dress when she pushed Jill in the pool.

[Rockstar99435]

Team Violet all the way. Christy has always been a giant hypocrite when it came to Violet's childhood. I almost gave up on the show in the first season because of that. When the show first started, Violet was 16 and Christy had only been sober for a few months, but Christy would simultaneously berate Bonnie for Christy's childhood while giving Violet shit for being mad about Violet's childhood. It made it very difficult for me to root for Christy. 

It would be one thing if Violet was making things up or exaggerating, but even Christy admitted that everything Violet has said is true. She just doesn't like having to be reminded of her behavior. And while it's awesome how far Christy has come, that doesn't negate anything. In fact it could make it worse for Violet. Christy destroyed Violet's childhood and now that Violet is older and doesn't need a mother anymore, now Christy is clean, going back to school, and helping others? That's got to sting. Violet is probably struggling with Christy not being able to do all of that back when Violet needed her to. We saw the same thing with Margarie's son in the 1st/2nd season. It's great that Margarie has been sober for 30+ years, but she wasn't sober for his childhood and he is still dealing with the consequences of her behavior during his formative years. Margarie understood and was leaving him alone; Christy needs to give the same gift to her daughter. It's the least she can do after everything she put Violet through.

[wendyg]

I think it's plausible that Violet is angry and bitter now *because* Christy was sober her last couple of years at home and therefore the constant crises ended. She now has time and space to let her own emotions surface in a way they couldn't when she was younger. I think she was 16 when the series began, and Christy was six months sober. So Violet had been keeping things together for Roscoe; then she went through the pregnancy; then she went through the aftermath of giving up the baby; and then she went into and out of a serious relationship. That's a lot of drama to contend with and leaves little space for self-reflection. Her being in a better and more independent place now is what's *allowing* her to see the trauma and stress of her childhood and confront her emotions about it.

[Guest]

On 12/9/2018 at 6:34 AM, wendyg said:

I think it's plausible that Violet is angry and bitter now *because* Christy was sober her last couple of years at home and therefore the constant crises ended. She now has time and space to let her own emotions surface in a way they couldn't when she was younger. I think she was 16 when the series began, and Christy was six months sober. So Violet had been keeping things together for Roscoe; then she went through the pregnancy; then she went through the aftermath of giving up the baby; and then she went into and out of a serious relationship. That's a lot of drama to contend with and leaves little space for self-reflection. Her being in a better and more independent place now is what's *allowing* her to see the trauma and stress of her childhood and confront her emotions about it.

Good point. She is just now in a place where she can try to come to terms with all the emotional baggage from her childhood.  It is also common for adult children to be more resentful after their parent stops the bad behavior. In many ways it can be easier to accept that your parent is incapable of doing better than to accept that they just didn’t do it for you. Those last couple of years Violet had to watch Roscoe get the childhood she never had. 

[femmefan1946]

On 11/16/2018 at 12:51 PM, Winston Wolfe said:

 

Sara (Rue) rocks soooo hard, always has.  Wish someone would give her a new sitcom.

She turned up as a dispatcher on The Rookie and since she has a working relationship with Nathan Fillion (from A Series of Unfortunate Events) there is hope that she might be a recurring character.

[Blakeston]

On 11/20/2018 at 4:15 PM, Dani said:

I’ve been rewatching the series. Christy owes three months rent and she did not have enough so she gambled it and lost. Marjorie and Bonnie pull together enough to cover one month to buy more time. Christy gambles that and wins but is then robbed. 

That sounds to me like she gambled it away once, like I said. The second time she didn't lose it via gambling, she was just the victim of a crime.

[Notwisconsin]

I just saw this and it's got to be the saddest "non-very special episode" of any sitcom I've ever seen.

[Judi Sunshine]

This ep was so good but so hard to watch. Anna Faris KILLED it, forced to just keep on going through this tremendous humiliation. Violet needs to go to an Al-Anon meeting, stat. My heart broke for Christy, but I loved the scene at the end with her and Bonnie; I lost it. <3

[60sgirl]

On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 8:46 AM, Judi Sunshine said:

 My heart broke for Christy, but I loved the scene at the end with her and Bonnie; I lost it. <3

I loved that big hug between Bonnie and Christy too.

[proserpina65]

On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 8:52 AM, MissLucas said:

And I actually have no problems with Violet making money out of her childhood trauma even if that's tough on Christy.

I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it if Violet had ever really made money on her own.  She did have the job in Tahoe that a friend's father got her, but other than that, she's lived off Christy, she's lived off Gregory and she's lived off Luke.  Throw in ripping off some guy by agreeing to a green card marriage and then stealing his money, and you've got yourself a complete taker.  And there's no way she could afford that apartment just on her podcast.

[Chaos Theory]

Tv shows (and movies for that matter) have never been realistic about the size of a person’s living space.  That is one of the things you have to overlook to enjoy a show.  Of course Violet wouldn’t be able to live in an apartment that nice just on that podcast but it was also a one  “hey hi Violet what have you been up to?” Episode plot line.  I could see her doing the podcast as a kind of therapy and making some money off of it but also having a full time job doing....something “not important to the plot”.   

The only thing I might have liked is an end credit of Christy turning into the podcast the next day and hearing her daughter admit that Bonnie might have been her life raft but was her mother’s anchor.   That she  knew her mother was listening in and that she wasn’t ready for a relationship but that she really was proud of her.

Thats how I would have ended it at least.

Edited January 11, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[Amazee-Dayzee]

This episode sort of just felt like something that they did so they could dump on Christy even more. I’m not defending the fact that Christy was a giant screw-up when she was younger as Violet was growing up. However throughout the episode it just looked like Violet was trying to pick a fight and tear down her mother even more while she was trying to make amends. Like she was doing everything in her power to tell her mother that she didn’t forgive her, didn’t appreciated her and never wanted to see her again and that she would always be a screw-up. If Violet act least acted CIVIL to Christy I wouldn’t have been complaining as much but she was trying to start something. The podcast wasn’t only just about her letting off steam and trying to heal from her disastrous childhood, it was also about humiliating and shaming Christy as Violet gave her a big middle finger. Sorry. But if she doesn’t want to have anything to do with Christy, then that is fine. But she doesn’t get to make her sound like she never improved her life and harp on all of her failures. Let’s not forget that Violet is just as screwed up Christy is. She only got back together with Luke because he was making an enormous amount of money.

 

I guess this is Chuck Lorre’s way of also say “Stop complaining about the kids not being on anymore. They won’t be on again. Now shut up about it.” As for Roscoe, since the episode about Violet was all about the ritual humiliation of Christy, I wouldn’t be surprised if Roscoe decided he liked Candace better as a mom, cut all ties with Christy and then Candace has her parental rights terminated and then rubs it in her face that she is still a failure as none of her kids want anything to do with her.

[Mr. Meatball Man]

I never liked Violet and I consider her to be the worst character in the series. I also think the show improved once it moved away from the family dynamic and started focusing more on the AA crew to support Christy and Bonnie as characters. I understand why people here miss the kids, but this episode is proof to me that there's a reason why they were phased out over time. 

 

The problem I have with this episode is that it went through old territory. I'm surprised I'm the first person to mention "Sawdust and Brisket" because this episode is like a low-rent version of that one. In that one, Violet is willing to give Christy a second chance and mend their relationship. It's actually really sweet to see them so close after all the arguments they had in the first two seasons. That episode portrayed both characters as sympathetic. Even near the end when Christy slipped up, it was something that was out of her control and wasn't her fault. Violet acknowledges this and the episode ends with their relationship in a better place. If Violet never showed up again after that episode, it would have been the perfect way to write her off. 

 

This episode seems to forget all of that. I know asking for continuity in sitcoms isn't worth it, even in 2019, but this feels like one of the rare sitcoms that would actually care about something like that. Violet is portrayed in this episode as someone that hasn't talked to Christy in years and has only heard about how she's doing from being on the phone with Bonnie. Violet should be one of the first people to know how much Christy has improved her life. She had already been sober for a considerable amount of time when Violet left the house. The episode treats it like Christy was still a raging alcoholic and drug addict before Violet left, and this is the first time the two are having a conversation with each other after Christy got clean. It completely disregards what "Sawdust and Brisket" did to tell this story, when it didn't need to be told. Violet using a podcast to air out the family's dirty laundry and telling Christy that she's doing better without her isn't worth an episode to me. This is just another case of Violet being an unsympathetic character, which "Sawdust and Brisket" was able to avoid. 

 

I don't blame Violet for still harboring some resentment towards her mother. She has every right to feel that way and this is the kind of thing that happens in real life. The problem here is that the show acts like Christy and Violet have had a terrible relationship for years and this is the first time they're directly addressing the situation. If "Sawdust and Brisket" didn't exist, I wouldn't have a problem with this episode. But knowing that the show handled this issue with perfection a couple seasons ago, only to regress into "Violet hates Christy and blames her for everything" a few seasons later doesn't sit well with me. Hopefully, by the time the series ends, Violet will have learned to deal with her feelings better and give Christy another chance, because there's nothing more this show has to say about their relationship. 

 

Then again, it could be worse. I don't even want to think about an episode where Roscoe shits on Christy and talks about how Candace was a better mother to him than she ever was.

[Amazee-Dayzee]

Which of course, given how Chuck Lorre likes to IGNORE the fact that Christy had children and pretend that all she has is her mother and the others when that shouldn't be true, could possibly be true. One of the last times we saw Roscoe was I believe a Christmas episode where he seemed happier with Candace and him, Baxter and her were all wearing the same Christmas sweater giving off the impression that they were the perfect family and Christy didn't even come close.

[Harvey]

On 1/19/2019 at 10:02 AM, Mr. Meatball Man said:

This episode seems to forget all of that. I know asking for continuity in sitcoms isn't worth it, even in 2019, but this feels like one of the rare sitcoms that would actually care about something like that. Violet is portrayed in this episode as someone that hasn't talked to Christy in years and has only heard about how she's doing from being on the phone with Bonnie. Violet should be one of the first people to know how much Christy has improved her life. She had already been sober for a considerable amount of time when Violet left the house. The episode treats it like Christy was still a raging alcoholic and drug addict before Violet left, and this is the first time the two are having a conversation with each other after Christy got clean. It completely disregards what "Sawdust and Brisket" did to tell this story, when it didn't need to be told

But the thing is, it completely doesn't matter what kind of improvements Christie made. In fact, it is 100% totally irrelevant. She still ruined Violet's childhood which has huge consequences for the rest of her life. As someone who experienced very similiar issues to Violet, I completely understand where she was coming from. Like who cares if Christie is now sober? Why couldn't she do it while Violet was a kid?

[Mr. Meatball Man]

On 9/28/2019 at 12:33 PM, Harvey said:

But the thing is, it completely doesn't matter what kind of improvements Christie made. In fact, it is 100% totally irrelevant. She still ruined Violet's childhood which has huge consequences for the rest of her life. As someone who experienced very similiar issues to Violet, I completely understand where she was coming from. Like who cares if Christie is now sober? Why couldn't she do it while Violet was a kid?

I'm sorry to hear that you went through things similar to what Violet went through. As people, I can understand why Violet still harbors resentment towards Christy and doesn't want her in her life. It's something that happens in real life. People try to work out their differences, they try to forget the past but there's just too much under the surface for them to ever reconcile. Like I said before, Violet has every right to feel the way she does, and I'm not expecting her to just forget about her childhood and love Christy again.

The problem is, this doesn't work because Christy and Violet aren't real people. They're characters, and we've seen their characters deal with the repercussions of Christy's alcoholism and try to understand each other better in the past. It's not like Violet grew up idolizing Christy and realized in this episode that she was a terrible mother. The pilot episode has them at odds because of the things Christy did. Violet rarely gives Christy an inch during the first two seasons, regardless of Christy being sober. That's why the episodes where they begin bonding are so important, because their relationship is given the opportunity to develop and improve. There was "Sawdust and Brisket" like I mentioned, and another episode from season two ("Free Therapy and a Dead Lady's Yard Sale") where Violet finds out her biological father was abusive to Christy, and had it not been for Christy getting pregnant with her, she would have never had the power to leave the relationship and realize that she has something to live for. The earlier seasons had Christy and Violet at each other's throats constantly, but they did a great job in trying to get them closer together and give them the relationship they were never able to have before. Violet lived with Christy when she was sober and actually saw her develop into a better person, and a better mother who at least tried to be there for Violet whenever she had a problem. The fact that it was Violet who wanted to open her heart to Christy in "Sawdust and Brisket" and repair their relationship, without any false pretenses or ulterior motives, is a really important moment in the show's history. 

This episode chooses to ignore that completely for the sake of telling this story again. We've seen this show approach this territory many times before and approach it a lot better. It ignores all the growth and development these characters have made just to tell a story that wasn't worth it. Other than Christy and Bonnie having that moment at the end, this episode was just another "Violet hates Christy and blames her for everything" plot. It's even worse because this is the first time we're seeing Violet since season four, and this is the best they can do?

I saw a post on Reddit that summed up my feelings on the episode perfectly: It was a season two episode that was in season six. There's no reason we should be getting this kind of episode in the sixth season. I'm not saying I want to see this, but it would be different if Roscoe didn't want a relationship with Christy anymore. It would at least be new territory that the show hasn't explored before. The last time we saw Roscoe, it didn't look like he wanted to even be around Christy, and after living with Baxter and Candace for so long, maybe he doesn't want to talk to Christy again or have anything to do with her. Now, he's starting to understand what Violet went through. At least that's a story they haven't touched yet and only hinted at.

This episode was made as proof that Violet doesn't belong on the show anymore. An episode about her and Christy's relationship could have worked, if the show hadn't ignored literally everything their relationship has been through in the past.  

Edited October 1, 2019 by Mr. Meatball Man

[Jess1234]

On 11/16/2018 at 6:57 PM, illdoc said:

You know, I've seen this mentioned several times. As I recall, Christy did gamble the rent money, but won. She was robbed just after collecting the money, however, and no one believed her story.

The whole story: Christy missed a lot of work between Violet's pregnancy and Alvin's heart attack, therefore didn't have rent $.

HOWEVER, C didn't tell anyone there was a problem, didn't try to work it out with landlord, and took $ from Bonnie for her share.

THEN SHE GAMBLED IT AWAY! Oh, and still didn't tell anyone.

Then, between what $ she did have, more $ from Bonnie, and borrowing from Marjorie, they had a months rent to give the landlord toward the THREE owed.

THEN SHE GAMBLED THAT $!

To me, it's irrelevant that she won and was robbed.

She was ridiculously childish and immature. "If I just close my eyes and wish, the landlord will just go away."

She made NO EFFORT to deal with the situation for MONTHS.

But she still had time to sponsor Jill. Which wasn't selfless at all, just a way to make her feel good about herself and mentally run away from her - AND HER CHILDREN'S - problems.

[Agent 817]

Well, I must note this. It seems that when Season 6 episodes had started to be shown on syndication, like on Paramount Network or FXX, it seems that this episode was skipped. I only watched it once when I was catching up on Season 6 on CBS All Access. I wasn't a big fan of it. I don't need to get into it because I had agreed with some users on here. But I wanted to note that this episode hasn't been shown on syndication yet when season 6 episodes are shown.

[Bort]

15 minutes ago, Agent 817 said:

Well, I must note this. It seems that when Season 6 episodes had started to be shown on syndication, like on Paramount Network or FXX, it seems that this episode was skipped. I only watched it once when I was catching up on Season 6 on CBS All Access. I wasn't a big fan of it. I don't need to get into it because I had agreed with some users on here. But I wanted to note that this episode hasn't been shown on syndication yet when season 6 episodes are shown.

Isn’t it holiday themed? It’s probably being held over. Happens all the time in Friends reruns.

[chitowngirl]

Paramount is starting season 6 on Friday afternoon. Just before the season 7 premiere, they showed a day of season 6 episodes that just hit the highlights of the season.

[Agent 817]

On 10/16/2019 at 6:56 PM, kariyaki said:

Isn’t it holiday themed? It’s probably being held over. Happens all the time in Friends reruns.

No, it's not holiday-themed. The only episodes that I think were holiday-themed was the one when Octavia Spencer's character decided that she wasn't an alcoholic. It was her last appearance, too. And then there was the Christmas episode from last season when Tammy was trying to maintain a job.

Also, I checked out listings for when Nick @ Nite shows the repeats and it seems that season 6 will be shown then as well and saw that it skipped this episode as well. It seems that some channels that air it on syndication don't really want to show it because it was a little mean-spirited. I mean, yes, I don't need to get into Violet's perspective because the part about her not wanting to have contact with her mother is respectable, but the fact that she airs their dirty laundry on a podcast while humiliating and dumping on her mother, it makes her seem less sympathetic.

Also, when FXX and Paramount showed season 6 episodes, I noticed that it went from episode 7 to episode 9. Like I said, they skipped the episode.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Agent 817

[chitowngirl]

Monday on Paramount they are showing most of season 6. This is one of the episodes they are skipping. They are also skipping it on Nick at Nite next week. 😕

Edited October 20, 2019 by chitowngirl

[kwnyc]

Quote

That being said, she would do herself a world of good by seeking some help  - even if she never lets Christy back into her life, 

One of the things that bothers me most about the show is that hardly anyone goes to therapy. They are in recovery so they can get from day to day sober, but dealing with the messes they've made or had thrust on them in their lives can take a lot of professional help.

Violet needs therapy. (Does she refer to it in this episode? She did go after she gave up the baby.) She needs Al-Anon (does Adam still go? He definitely started, but it's not been mentioned again. However, he was smart enough to get Bonnie to a meeting on their honeymoon.)

For that matter, Bonnie's definitely improved her behavior and coping skills since she started seeing a therapist for her ADHD. (I hope they bring Rainn Wilson back). 

Christi needs SO MUCH THERAPY...but between all her jobs and school, she probably can't or won't set aside the time. I'd like to hear/have heard one of her THREE sponsors mention it.

Of course, addressing the expense of medical care is an iffy thing on the show: sometimes people can get in to see a doctor easily and there's no mention of co-payments. And while there was a "free clinic" in the first couple of seasons, don't people in California have something like single-payer? (MediCal?)

But...the length of the discussion on this episode, and the amazing insights and thoughts, proves to me that this is a series that needs to be on TV, and it's ridiculous if the syndicators aren't showing what they consider "problematic" episodes.

[chitowngirl]

Darn, they showed this episode on CBS this evening. Maybe it’ll be on On Demand now?

[jewel21]

I caught it on Saturday. It was nice go watch this again. One of their strongest episodes. I really felt for both Violet and Christie. 

[hisbunkie]

On 10/28/2019 at 1:22 PM, kwnyc said:

One of the things that bothers me most about the show is that hardly anyone goes to therapy. They are in recovery so they can get from day to day sober, but dealing with the messes they've made or had thrust on them in their lives can take a lot of professional help.

To be fair and realistic people in main characters situation don’t have medical insurance that would cover therapy.  

[funky-rat]

1 hour ago, hisbunkie said:

To be fair and realistic people in main characters situation don’t have medical insurance that would cover therapy.  

Not to mention how long the waiting list is to get in to see someone.  I think my husband's longest wait was 9 weeks.  I had called anyone on our insurance's list of providers in a 150 mile radius, if they saw people on weekends or evenings.  No one could take him.  Most of them couldn't take him, period.  The few that could if I took the day off work to run him down had waiting lists.  Long ones.

Edited November 18, 2019 by funky-rat

[magonzales]

This episode was very impactful. It was crazy emotional and had me torn between feeling sorry for Christy and feeling that she was finally facing the consequences of what she did to her children growing up. If everyone remembers at the beginning of the series, Christy never owned up to what she did to her children when she was a drunken wreck. She was too busy throwing every bad thing Bonnie ever did in her face. At one point Christy even tells her mom that she likes giving her a bad time, meaning likes throwing the fact that Bonnie was a bad mom in her face. You can see it in the beginning of this episode. Christy says at the bistro, I was telling her what a terrible mom you are...how is that any different from what Violet is doing to Christy? Even in the new season Christy lives to remind Bonnie of just how much she sucks. Violet and Christy's relationship is almost a mirror image of Christy and Bonnie. The one difference is that Christy and Bonnie talk to each other, are in each others lives but are hurts healed? Nope. Violet is spilling her stories out there for others and maybe that is how she is dealing with it, how she is healing. Christy is obviously healing by blaming everything on her mother and telling her how horrible she is. Both ways are wrong but we can't feel too sorry for Christy just because we like her and see how much she's grown. Perhaps if Christy was more forgiving of her own mother, Violet wouldn't have been so harsh.