S03.E05: Toby

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Kate and Toby try to keep busy while waiting for big news. Randall embarks on a new journey. Kevin meets someone from his father's past.

Promo:

 

Original air date: 10/23/18

[JudyObscure]

Oh gosh, I didn't have the sound on and just Toby's face was gut wrenching. 

[VioletNevermind]

So, I’m one of those viewers who doesn’t like Toby.  At all.  Not even a little bit.  I find him terribly annoying and trying as a person.  He should leave the constant comedy routine to Rodney Dangerfield where it belongs.  As for his depression, I have nothing but respect for people with depression.  I have The Sads™, too.  I’ve taken anti-depressants for well over 25 years, since I was a teenager.  I can’t for the life of me understand why he wasn’t open about discontinuing his meds.  He didn’t even have to tell Kate; he could have worked privately with his doctor to reduce his dosage, at the very least.  He was irresponsible, at best, to go cold turkey the way he did.  Toby, I’ve tried my best to like you, but it’s just not happening.  (I do, however, send hugs to Little Toby.  That’s a different story altogether.)

Kate.  Come on, girl.  These Pearson kids never met a mood they couldn’t ruin with a wet blanket Eeyore speech for one or more complete strangers.  Was it really necessary to deliver one of those speeches to the guy after the singing Adele-o-gram (very clever, writers)?

Miguel, please stop trying to make me like you with your handyman services for Rebecca and your childhood stories about Ricky Ricardo.  Just stop.  It ain’t gonna happen.

The real MVPs of this episode were Jack’s Army buddy and Mr. RealTalk who hosted Randall’s political barbecue at his restaurant.  I say this as someone who loves Randall: I am seriously disliking this political storyline of his.  Everyone he’s attempting to “stump” for is wondering just who in the hell he thinks he is, telling the citizens what they need to be happy and safe; I count myself among them.  Randall has lived a pretty damn charmed life, considering the fact that he was adopted.  He may feel sympathy and empathy for the residents and truly want to change their situations (which is great, don’t get me wrong), but the guy is right: Randall really doesn’t know what they go through on a daily basis just trying to survive from day to day.  I hope he loses the election and comes down off his high horse.

Finally, I don’t want to say that my interest in this show is waning, but it’s definitely not what it was.

Edited October 24, 2018 by SuzyLee

[Lady Calypso]

The most surprising part of this episode was that Randall got Randalled by the restaurant owner. He not only got nobody on his side during his first speech (and had people actively angry!) but he got a Pearson-esque sob story by the restaurant owner!

[Armchair Critic]

Good for Kate being pregnant but ugh she can be such a Debbie Downer, instead of just saying "thank you" to a stranger that compliments her voice she has to go into how when she isn't happy it affects her music.

Glad Randall didn't easily win everybody over, this was more realistic.

And we get to see Jack asked Miguel to look after his family.

[CleoCaesar]

It’s impossible for me to properly articulate how little I care about Randall’s campaign for town councilman.

Kevin was sweet to get Zoe her damn pillowcase. God forbid she open her mouth and quickly explain in the car why she needed it instead of silently fuming and angsting about how He’ll Never Understand Her™.

Toby was a sweet kid. His adult over-the-topness makes more sense now. Still annoying, but it makes sense.

Beth. Huh. Throwing out a theory here: very early onset Alzheimer’s? In the flashforward, could be Randall and adult Tess visiting Beth, now totally senile.

[ErinV]

Oh shut UP Kate.  Your singing telegram client does not need to hear about your life of problems.  Seriously.  Your dad died, and you had a miscarriage.  Nothing thousands of people haven’t gone through also.  Oh and you have a supportive family and husband.  Please cut it out!

[notcreative enough]

Lol at teenage Kate's pillow belly. They need to find a better way to make her look larger that isn’t the same way a soap opera makes someone pregnant.
I’m glad Toby explained to the pharmacist why he wasn’t taking his medication  because I was wondering why he didn’t get back on them after he made it with a cup.
Sorry Randall I don’t care about your political career. Looks like Beth is still putting Randall’s crazy ideas before her. She’s already trying for a new job.
Zoey is everything that I hate about people. Like how dare Kevin not know something that she isn’t willing to tell him. Her and the army guys wife being a poor stupid white boy seemed very mean spirited. And who randomly starts talking about their relationship with someone they just met. Maybe if she was talking to Beth it would seem organic. I hope that we see the end of her soon. 
 

And am I the only one that wants a Vietnamese Jack Jr with like 5 look a like mini Jacks. Just so Katie girl isn't the only one to pass a bit of daddy on.

[PRgal]

1 minute ago, notcreative enough said:

Lol at teenage Kate's pillow belly. They need to find a better way to make her look larger that isn’t the same way a soap opera makes someone pregnant.
I’m glad Toby explained to the pharmacist why he wasn’t taking his medication  because I was wondering why he didn’t get back on them after he made it with a cup.
Sorry Randall I don’t care about your political career. Looks like Beth is still putting Randall’s crazy ideas before her. She’s already trying for a new job.
Zoey is everything that I hate about people. Like how dare Kevin not know something that she isn’t willing to tell him. Her and the army guys wife being a poor stupid white boy seemed very mean spirited. And who randomly starts talking about their relationship with someone they just met. Maybe if she was talking to Beth it would seem organic. I hope that we see the end of her soon. 
 

And am I the only one that wants a Vietnamese Jack Jr with like 5 look a like mini Jacks. Just so Katie girl isn't the only one to pass a bit of daddy on.

Not a fan of Teen Kate's fat suit either.  Not looking forward to possibly seeing NOT!Rebecca next week either.

[Spartan Girl]

Poor Toby. I knew there was a reason why I thought his parents were jerks -- well, maybe not the mom so much.

And poor Beth. The first interview after getting fired is always nerve-wrecking.

Ok, i really hope the woman in the photo isn't a Miss Saigon-esque secret love story with Jack.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Spartan Girl

[tennisgurl]

I swear, Kate really is the ultimate Debbie Downer. 

Random Client: "Wow, your so super talented, congrats on your awesome voice!"

Kate: "Yeah, my life sucks, I never get a break, and thats why I sang at your party today."

*muah muah muaaaaaah*

Random Client: "...so did you need your parking validated, or..."

[ShadowFacts]

There were a few sad things that made some impact on me in this one, but none more than teen prom Randall. 

[Katy M]

Randall, you don't need to fight so hard to stay somewhere you're not wanted.  And, Chichi was helping him?  I thought she more or less couldn't stand him.

1 minute ago, Spartan Girl said:

Poor Toby. I knew there was a reason why I thought his parents were jerks -- well, maybe not the mom so much.

Dan Lauria always plays a jerk. And why did I think he was dead?

[ams1001]

6 minutes ago, notcreative enough said:

And who randomly starts talking about their relationship with someone they just met.

Pearsons. And apparently anyone who joins, or may join, the family.

Teen Randall is adorable when he smiles. 

Oh, and singing Adele-o-gram. I want this to be a real thing. (A quick google suggests not, but then I didn't look that hard.)

[Lady Calypso]

Just now, CleoCaesar said:

Kevin was sweet to get Zoe her damn pillowcase. God forbid she open her mouth and quickly explain in the car why she needed it instead of silently fuming and angsting about how He’ll Never Understand Her™.

Yeah...that really bugged me about her. It's odd as well because Zoe is Beth's cousin. She knows that Beth and Kevin have been in-laws for well over a decade. Who is she to say that Kevin has no idea and is just some rich white man? Did the writers of this episode forget about Zoe being Beth's cousin? I'm just not sure what they were trying to accomplish here, and it's odd because I did feel super bad for her in the convenience store. I immediately knew what was going on and figured out that she was likely racist toward Zoe. And sure, I didn't get the whole thing with the silk pillow, but it was a learning point for me tonight. But the conversation with Robinson's wife just bugged me and that feeling didn't go away, even with Zoe finally talking to Kevin because "he's worth it." I just couldn't muster up many feelings for her and I'm not sure whether that was because of shoddy writing or because, perhaps, I have a bias because I'm a white woman. Maybe a little of both? 

Meanwhile, I felt super bad for Beth and wanted to give her a hug. Randall is just....so narcissistic and Beth can't even be honest with him since she's trying to be supportive. And yes, I fully understand that Randall and Beth have seemed to lay out some things and that Randall said he'd quit the electoral race if she was uncomfortable. But Beth is, once again, sacrificing her happiness for Randall and he can't see it. If he did, I do think he'd drop out, even without her asking. 

I also felt super bad for Teenage Randall. I think even Teenage Kevin was shocked to see such racism in front of him. 

As for the Toby stuff, I did feel for him. His flashbacks were needed and I liked them. Plus, Kid and Teen Toby looked like Chris Sullivan, so another home run for the casting department, especially after the miss of Kid Jack #1 from last episode. 

No opinions about Kate. I'm glad she's pregnant, but I'm not really fond of her singing anymore, even though I felt a bit bad that she got typecast as an Adele impersonator, and didn't care much for her scene with the host of the party. 

[bettername2come]

Loved Miguel being a genuinely good guy and looking out for the family because Jack wanted him to. And also glad he didn't pop out from under the refrigerator like I expected when Kate started singing at the piano. Helping 3/4s of the Pearsons is enough. I liked seeing that first hint of a Miguel/Rebecca relationship. Not romantic yet, but the earliest scene in the timeline where you can see how it could go there.

Secret Vietnamese family, secret Vietnamese family...called it! I mean, it's not confirmed, but still. Called it!

Mildly surprised Kevin didn't pick up on the racism at the counter, but on the other hand I feel like he's gotten so used to telling people "he's with us" in regard to Randall that he didn't think anything of cashier not realizing they're together. Love that he ordered a pillowcase delivery "because it seemed important to you." Didn't matter if he understood why, he listened. Go Caring Kevin! 

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Dan Lauria always plays a jerk. And why did I think he was dead?

If you're like me, it's because he died in The Wonder Years finale and it always felt too real. Unless you mean Toby's dad the character instead of Dan Lauria. Then I got nothing.

[Spartan Girl]

9 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

There were a few sad things that made some impact on me in this one, but none more than teen prom Randall. 

God, yeah. At the part with Kevin and Zoe with the cashier, my friend was all, "I spy a racist."

Then with Randall meeting his prom date's dad, I said, "I spy ANOTHER racist."

People suck.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Spartan Girl

[Conotocarious]

Yup. Still thinking Beth is “her”. 

[Lady Calypso]

Also, I wanted to talk about Kevin's stuff in a separate post. I loved what we got, even if it was minimal. We only got a few short scenes. I wish it replaced either the Randall campaign stuff or the flashbacks, and we could have saved the flashbacks for another episode. I actually think the flashbacks weren't needed and we could have gotten more Kevin. C'mon, show! You're underusing Kevin this season! 

[ShadowFacts]

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

Also, I wanted to talk about Kevin's stuff in a separate post. I loved what we got, even if it was minimal. We only got a few short scenes. I wish it replaced either the Randall campaign stuff or the flashbacks, and we could have saved the flashbacks for another episode. I actually think the flashbacks weren't needed and we could have gotten more Kevin. C'mon, show! You're underusing Kevin this season! 

I think for a nominally Toby episode, he might have been more under used than Kevin.  We know Kevin will figure prominently going forward with the Vietnam story.  I did like him quite a bit in this episode, he has made a 180 turn for me in likeability from where he started. 

[Guest]

I’m glad Randall’s event didn’t go well. I like Randall (most of the time) but he can’t just waltz in to every situation and think he can fix everything.

I liked the Miguel stuff. 

Overall, I really enjoyed this episode, but my heart broke for teenage Randall and adult Toby. :(

[RedDelicious]

11 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Dan Lauria always plays a jerk. And why did I think he was dead?

I thought he was dead too but it’s the dad from Dirty Dancing who died.

Edited October 24, 2018 by RedDelicious

[ams1001]

4 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I did feel super bad for her in the convenience store. I immediately knew what was going on and figured out that she was likely racist toward Zoe

Somehow I completely missed this scene; I had no idea what she was talking about later.

[callmebetty]

I liked the small moments. Miguel being a good guy and just trying to help out.  Makes me wonder why he moves to Arizona.

Liked Kevin being a caring guy and getting the pillowcase for Zoey, though sometimes wonder if she deserves it.

Felt bad for teen Randall, but I wanted adult Randall to change his mind about running for Councilman after the restaurant owners speech. Only because maybe he should remind the councilman what he use to do for the people of the area and how he's also become complacent along with neighborhood residents.  Just because he saved your business 20 years ago doesnt mean the councilman should stop fighting for you.

Edited October 24, 2018 by callmebetty

[Jewlmc]

Was the Prom thing a way to highlight how stupid Zoe is?  Because Kevin grew up with a black brother.  Pretty sure he's seen some racist side eye. He's not new to this.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Jewlmc

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, callmebetty said:

I liked the small moments. Miguel being a good guy and just trying to help out.  Makes me wonder why he moves to Arizona.

Oh, that does remind me. Miguel was trying to pull a Pearson and Teen Randall just walks away. Yes, he was upset so I fully understand. But if a Pearson was going full force into a Pearson-esque speech to try to help someone (or themselves), you bet the said victim of the speech wouldn't be allowed to walk away!

I gotta admit, I wanted to hear the end to Miguel's speech and I actually yelled at my TV...in favour of Miguel! 

But Teen Randall had a really shitty night so I'm more forgiving. 

[callmebetty]

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

Oh, that does remind me. Miguel was trying to pull a Pearson and Teen Randall just walks away. Yes, he was upset so I fully understand. But if a Pearson was going full force into a Pearson-esque speech to try to help someone (or themselves), you bet the said victim of the speech wouldn't be allowed to walk away!

I gotta admit, I wanted to hear the end to Miguel's speech and I actually yelled at my TV...in favour of Miguel! 

But Teen Randall had a really shitty night so I'm more forgiving. 

You so know Miguel, Toby and Beth have talked and gif'd about that in their group chat.

 

But yeah I wanted to know the end of the story too.

[DearEvette]

7 minutes ago, Jewlmc said:

Was the PROM thing a way to highlight how stupid Zoe is?  Because Kevin grew up with a black brother.  Pretty sure He's seen some racist side eye. He's not new to this.

No it was a to highlight that Kevin, like most people can recognize obvious racism.  It is the microaggressive type he is oblivious to which was very clearly shown.  When she said the grocery store lady was racist, Kevin immediately returned with "what did she say" when racism isn't always in your face with people saying stuff.  It can be very subtle.  So no it wasn't to highlight her stupidity rather a nod to his ignorance  because even living with a black brother he still can't get the nuances.

Like the pillow.  The thing with Zoe and the pillow is like the tail end of a long conversation you are sick of having.  I immediately got where Zoe was coming from with the pillow because it is a accretion of a life to having to explain stuff to non-black folks about blackness & black experience.  If she has been sleeping with him for awhile and she has a been sleeping on a satin pillow his obviousness to its significance is its own little microaggression.  Also been there and done that with some really stupid ass conversations about black women hair. And it gets old real fast.

Edited October 24, 2018 by DearEvette

[callmebetty]

For an episode titled Toby, it sure was light on actual Toby.

[Laurie4H]

The racist stuff just seemed so contrived.  It would be so much more effective if it didn’t feel like a political agenda.

Wasn’t the restaurant owner the promoter guy from Rocky 5?

Edited October 24, 2018 by Laurie4H

[Neurochick]

14 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

God, yeah. At the part with Kevin and Zoe with the cashier, my friend was all, "I spy a racist."

Then with Randall meeting his prom date's dad, I said, "I spy ANOTHER racist."

People suck.

Yes, that cashier, what a bitch.

Strange that Kevin didn’t know about the pillowcase, his brother is black, as is his sister in law.   I was waiting for him to tell Zoe that he had it delivered because he knew why she needed it.

I don’t get why folks are upset with Zoe and the army buddy’s wife.  I thought their conversation was very real.  Some white folks don’t get it.

[Runningwild]

1 minute ago, Laurie4H said:

The racist stuff just seemed so contrived.  It would be so much more effective if it didn’t feel like a political agenda.

Wasn’t the restaurant owner the promoter guy from Rocky 5?

I agree. Between this show and NCIS, I was rolling my eyes. 

[BusyOctober]

15 minutes ago, SuzyLee said:

Finally, I don’t want to say that my interest in this show is waning, but it’s definitely not what it was.  

I feel ya, Suzylee.  There are still things I like a lot...(non-running for office)Randall, Beth and their girls, Jack, Rebecca, Miguel, the Young Pearsons and Teen Pearson’s  Don’t really care about Kevin or Toby.  Actively haaaating adult Kate. I am close to FF’g her scenes.  Boo fucking hoo.  You have a weight problem, you lost your dad, you have a self confidence issue, you have fertility struggles, and your life didn’t turn out exactly as you thought it would.  Welcome to what the rest of the globe’s population calls LIFE.  Every single stranger or casual acquaintance does not want to hear your sob stories immediately upon meeting you. You may think you are all alone walking in your shroud of melancholy, but you aren’t.  Everyone you dump your sadness all over has their own shit.

Has it been explained how Randall can run for a Council seat in a ward/city/STATE!!! in which he doesn’t live?  Because he’s a landlord in the district?  I hope this political story ends quickly.

Zoey can drop of the planet any time. 

[Blakeston]

5 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

No it was a to highlight that Kevin, like most people can recognize obvious racism.  It is the microaggressive type he is oblivious to which was very clearly shown.  When she said the grocery store lady was racist, Kevin immediately returned with "what did she say" when racism isn't always in your face with people saying stuff.  It can be very subtle.  So no it wasn't to highlight her stupidity rather a nod to his ignorance  because even living with a black brother he still can't get the nuances.

Like the pillow.  The thing with Zoe and the pillow is like the tail end of a long conversation you are sick of having.  I immediately got where Zoe was coming from with the pillow because it is a accretion of a life to having to explain stuff to non-black folks about blackness & black experience.  If she has been sleeping with him for awhile and she has a been sleeping on a satin pillow his obviousness to its significance is its own little microaggression.  Also been there and done that with some really stupid ass conversations about black women hair. And it gets old real fast.

Kevin should have recognized what was going on with the cashier. But I'm not surprised he didn't, considering a) how oblivious he is in general, and b) how little he cared about the racism his brother faced growing up.

That said, I think it's understandable that a white man wouldn't know the significance of a pillowcase his new girlfriend uses, if she's never explained why she uses it.

[Neurochick]

10 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

No it was a to highlight that Kevin, like most people can recognize obvious racism.  It is the microaggressive type he is oblivious to which was very clearly shown.  When she said the grocery store lady was racist, Kevin immediately returned with "what did she say" when racism isn't always in your face with people saying stuff.  It can be very subtle.  So no it wasn't to highlight her stupidity rather a nod to his ignorance  because even living with a black brother he still can't get the nuances.

Like the pillow.  The thing with Zoe and the pillow is like the tail end of a long conversation you are sick of having.  I immediately got where Zoe was coming from with the pillow because it is a accretion of a life to having to explain stuff to non-black folks about blackness & black experience.  If she has been sleeping with him for awhile and she has a been sleeping on a satin pillow his obviousness to its significance is its own little microaggression.  Also been there and done that with some really stupid ass conversations about black women hair. And it gets old real fast.

 

I agree, and this type of racism is more prevalent than someone saying the n word.  And I don’t think this was for “political “ reasons either.  Racism is very real in this country, even if people don’t want to believe it exists.

I don’t get the Zoe hate, I really don’t.  It does get exhausting having to explain every fucking little thing to a man who doesn’t get it, because he’s never had to.  That’s why I feel for Zoe.  

Edited October 24, 2018 by Neurochick

[Amethyst]

Poor Miguel, trying to have a Jack-style moment with Randall.  At least he tried.  It's poignant to see teen Kevin passed out on Miguel's bed.  Years later, Miguel says he knows that Kevin doesn't like him.  :(

LOL at Randall getting dismissed by the crowd.  He hasn't learned anything from his conversations with Deja.  As much as I wish this would be the end of it, I know Randall will just persist all the more to win this election.  I'm not looking forward to the dirty laundry that could be aired over this. And this was mentioned before, can Randall even run in this district if he doesn't live there?

Poor Beth, breaking down during the interview.  She's going through a major shift herself and she doesn't have anyone to talk to.  Time to start up that phone tree, Beth!  Maybe Miguel will listen.

I loved how that executive was all "Well, stay happy" when Kate told him her Sad, Sad Story.  I didn't blame him, I would have gotten the hell out of there.

Meh to everything else.

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

Has it been explained how Randall can run for a Council seat in a ward/city/STATE!!! in which he doesn’t live?  Because he’s a landlord in the district?  I hope this political story ends quickly.

He explained that it's because his name is now on William's lease for his apartment. Which...still a bullshit excuse and I'm glad none of the neighbours in that district were having it. 

[tribeca]

My French White grandma always slept on a silk pillow case.  She brought it everywhere.  She said it prevented wrinkles and she didn’t have any lines on her face even in her seventies.  

   I really felt bad for Toby.  Kid Toby looked so much like adult Toby.  His humor is his defense.  Hopefully Kate will be there for him.  

[After7Only]

50 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

 

Kevin was sweet to get Zoe her damn pillowcase. God forbid she open her mouth and quickly explain in the car why she needed it instead of silently fuming and angsting about how He’ll Never Understand Her™.

 

 

I think her point was she was concerned about the interracial aspect of her relationship with Kevin.  I automatically understood why she needed the pillowcase.  Most Black men would have too.   As she mentioned she had not seriosly dated interacially, having to explain something others would automatically understand was new to her.   It can also be tiring especially if the other person is not receptive (for example try to explain away the rude cashier’s behavior).  Glad she realized Kevin was worth it, and started to share.   

 

31 minutes ago, Jewlmc said:

Was the Prom thing a way to highlight how stupid Zoe is?  Because Kevin grew up with a black brother.  Pretty sure he's seen some racist side eye. He's not new to this.

 

As selfish as young and teenaged Kevin has been portrayed, I don’t think we’ve ever seen him deal with issues surrounding Randall and racism.  It’s mainly been the parents who noticed it.  They didn’t show Kevin’s reaction to the racist prom date dad.  The only time I can think of him mentioning race was young Kevin complaining about being the forgotten kid because Kate was fat and Randall was too black.   As Randall was not one to complain especially to Kevin, Kevin may very well been living in his own bubble and not that nuanced in the racist side eye.

Edited October 24, 2018 by After7Only

[ams1001]

2 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

Has it been explained how Randall can run for a Council seat in a ward/city/STATE!!! in which he doesn’t live?  Because he’s a landlord in the district?  I hope this political story ends quickly.

He said something about putting his name on William's lease when William came to live with them.

 

1 minute ago, Blakeston said:

That said, I think it's understandable that a white man wouldn't know the significance of a pillowcase his new girlfriend uses, if she's never explained why she uses it.

I knew it had something to do with her hair, but not the specific reason (white girl with fine mousy hair, here). Randall presumably didn't sleep on a silk pillowcase and I wouldn't assume Kevin would necessarily know Beth's nighttime hair habits just because she's married to his brother.

[VioletNevermind]

6 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

I feel ya, Suzylee.  There are still things I like a lot...(non-running for office)Randall, Beth and their girls, Jack, Rebecca, Miguel, the Young Pearsons and Teen Pearson’s  Don’t really care about Kevin or Toby.  Actively haaaating adult Kate. I am close to FF’g her scenes.  Boo fucking hoo.  You have a weight problem, you lost your dad, you have a self confidence issue, you have fertility struggles, and your life didn’t turn out exactly as you thought it would.  Welcome to what the rest of the globe’s population calls LIFE.  Every single stranger or casual acquaintance does not want to hear your sob stories immediately upon meeting you. You may think you are all alone walking in your shroud of melancholy, but you aren’t.  Everyone you dump your sadness all over has their own shit.

Has it been explained how Randall can run for a Council seat in a ward/city/STATE!!! in which he doesn’t live?  Because he’s a landlord in the district?  I hope this political story ends quickly.

Zoey can drop of the planet any time. 

There was a very obvious bit of exposition at the beginning about how he added himself to his dad’s lease when he was alive, so he was technically a “resident.”  That was a very clumsy few lines of dialogue for a show that usually gets it so right (with the exception of the Eeyore speeches).

Edited October 24, 2018 by SuzyLee

[chocolatine]

On 10/23/2018 at 10:02 PM, CleoCaesar said:

Beth. Huh. Throwing out a theory here: very early onset Alzheimer’s? In the flashforward, could be Randall and adult Tess visiting Beth, now totally senile.

I'm not saying it won't happen, but I interpreted her getting emotional in her interview as the first time someone asked her how she felt about being laid off - because Randall didn't - and she just started "mourning" her first job that turned into a 12-year career (continuity issues with previous seasons notwithstanding).

I hope this is the end of Randall's politics storyline, and if it isn't, I hope he loses. He needs a reality check, if the restaurant owner's speech wasn't enough of one.

I only know about black women needing a silk pillowcase for their hair from beauty magazines, otherwise I would have been just as clueless as Kevin. Plus, Kevin is a celebrity and used to people in his orbit having weird quirks, so I don't fault him for assuming Zoe's need for the silk pillowcase was also a quirk.

Kate's voice is pretty average. No way would someone follow her in real life to tell her she should audition for The Voice.

Edited October 25, 2018 by chocolatine

[tennisgurl]

I thought the Toby backstory was pretty good, so much so that I actually wanted to see more of it. I think his depression adds a lot more context to his big over the top antics, and manic pixie dream guy tendencies. Everyone leaves him when he "gets the sads" so he desperately tries to overcompensate by being super happy and exciting. Its really quite tragic. And now he has ended up with Kate, who is already moody and likes being the center of attention, so he can focus all his energy on her. I dont blame her for not noticing something was off with him, but i do hope we see her being a supportive spouse in future episodes, and not to get annoyed with him for being depressed like every other person apparently has. 

I like Zoe and Kevin, and I thought the stuff with the pillow was a nice gesture on his part, while also showing that he just didnt pick up on the cashier lady and her racism. He knows a decent amount about racism (as we saw in the flashback) but still didnt pick up on everything. Really, I think its kind of weird that he didnt notice. He grew up with Randall and has known his wife and daughters for years. I do wonder what that, and the conversation she had with the old soldiers wife, will lead to with their relationship?

Nice seeing Miguel helping the family, and Jack asking him to look out for his family if something happened to him. Trying to give Randall a Pearson speech, taking care of drunk Kevin, helping around the house. Guy has grown on me, what can I say? 

I like Randall, but he really can be just insufferable with his new cause every five freaking seconds. Glad that he didnt instantly win everyone over, and that this might actually be tough for him. What bugs me is that he still doesn't see these people as real people, he just sees projects so he can be closer to William. So he lectures people on their lives, talks at them instead of to them, and drags his family along for the ride. I cant imagine that he would ever notice that Beth was upset unless she spelled it out, he gets so caught up in being Super Randall and his new projects that take up so much of his time. I am seriously dreading when he tells the poor girls that he will be moving their family away to a totally new city and state for the sake of their dads midlife crisis. 

As I said earlier, Kate is such a never ending sad sack. I feel for her, I really do, but she just spends so much freaking time talking about how much her life sucks, that it makes me annoyed, not feel bad for her. Especially as her complaining is going on as things in her life are clearly looking up, and she is getting almost everything she wants. 

I wonder if the woman was the lady whos son tried to give Jack fish last week? I dont think he has a secret family, but maybe she or her kid died, and he felt guilty?

[Roxie]

Any time I get to see Wendie Malick, it's a plus.

[DearEvette]

5 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

That said, I think it's understandable that a white man wouldn't know the significance of a pillowcase his new girlfriend uses, if she's never explained why she uses it.

Right, which is where the "is he worth it" came from.  After the lady used the word "exhausting". 

An anecdote: When I worked in advising/counseling I got burned out because I always felt like I was saying the same thing over and over again.  And I was.  My boss would always give new counselors the "remember, although you are saying something for the 1000th time, they are hearing it for the first time" speech.

This is where Zoe and the old soldier's wife was coming from.  It can be exhausting to be an explainer in a relationship/friendship about your 'otherness' all the time.  So it become a question of do you even bother?  In the end if she and Kevin weren't going anywhere, then she just shrugs along letting him believe the pillowcase is just fancy affectation no need to explain and one less time you have to say the same thing.

[After7Only]

12 minutes ago, Laurie4H said:

The racist stuff just seemed so contrived.  It would be so much more effective if it didn’t feel like a political agenda.

Wasn’t the restaurant owner the promoter guy from Rocky 5?

What some found contrived, others found to be a fairly real and common Black American experience.  I could relate, and appreciated seeing it.

[love2lovebadtv]

 I just want to say Zoe annoyed me with her pillowcase nonsense. A hairdresser recommended a satin pillowcase years ago. When my cousin came to visit and I teased her about fancy pillowcase, she said it hoped her hair retain moisture and I remembered that recommendation. All black people don't sleep on satin pillowcases and Kevin not knowing why she slept on one means nothing. It was sweet that he got her one, though. My husband has no idea about why I do half the stuff I do to my face, hair, etc. He would notice if I slept on a satin pillowcase but he wouldn't care about why. His family isn't black and he doesn't seem to have paid much attention to his the beauty regimens his mother and sister had when he was growing up either. It annoys me when people generalize and get annoyed when someone is unfamiliar with their generalization. 

I also dislike when people ask me about someone else's hair as if I had styled it for them. Is that real? How did they get it like that? 

So much other stuff happened in this episode but I ju2had to get that off my chest. 

[Lady Calypso]

18 minutes ago, After7Only said:

As selfish as young and teenaged Kevin has been portrayed, I don’t think we’ve ever seen him deal with issues surrounding Randall and racism.  It’s mainly been the parents who noticed it.  They didn’t show Kevin’s reaction to the racist prom date dad.  The only time I can think of him mentioning race was young Kevin complaining about being the forgotten kid because Kate was fat and Randall was too black.   As Randall was not one to complain especially to Kevin, Kevin may very well been living in his own bubble and that nuanced in the racist side eye.

Actually, I think they did show Teen Kevin's reaction a little bit. It was a very brief shot, but Teen Kevin did react to racist prom date dad. However, we don't know exactly what he thought so I guess it's ambiguous unless they explore it in a future episode, if he did notice these things. I know, pre-dead Jack, Kevin was very harsh about Randall and might have been a little racist himself (or just plain jealous). But post-dead Jack, I think Kevin started to notice things a little bit more. Maybe not to the extent that he'd see all the microaggressions, but I do think he became a little more aware, perhaps even more about his own jealousy about Randall. But that's just my interpretation and I could be totally wrong.

10 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Right, which is where the "is he worth it" came from.  After the lady used the word "exhausting". 

An anecdote: When I worked in advising/counseling I got burned out because I always felt like I was saying the same thing over and over again.  And I was.  My boss would always give new counselors the "remember, although you are saying something for the 1000th time, they are hearing it for the first time" speech.

This is where Zoe and the old soldier's wife was coming from.  It can be exhausting to be an explainer in a relationship/friendship about your 'otherness' all the time.  So it become a question of do you even bother?  In the end if she and Kevin weren't going anywhere, then she just shrugs along letting him believe the pillowcase is just fancy affectation no need to explain and one less time you have to say the same thing.

This is a very good point. It has made me pause on my initial reaction. Although I still am bugged by Zoe for other reasons, such as her judging Kevin due to her own insecurities, I can see this side for her and the soldier's wife. So thanks for this post. I'm hoping that we can see Zoe also grow and change. I'm still unsure about Zoe and Kevin as a long-term couple, but that's mostly because I want to know Zoe as a person first, instead of thinking of her as Zoe-and-Kevin. Similarly like we've needed that with Beth, Miguel, and Toby. At least we're starting to with at least Toby this season and a little of Beth. 

[Bluedog100]

@Suzy Lee and BusyOctober....I came here to post the same exact sentiments but you two did it better than I could ever articulate. Excellent job! And Suzi Lee was the name of my beloved sister so thanks for that, too!

[Mommaj]

Gosh Kate, maybe if you got a real job, you could pay the whole gas bill. Just a thought.