S01.E04: The Twin Thing

[HollyG]

Still wrestling with addiction -- and an unshakable fright -- a frantic Luke tries to save a friend while sensing his twin sister is in danger.

 

 

Oh hell no!  The boy watching that ghost/entity floating around the hall during the night? Why are they still in this house?  Enough of them have had weird/bad experiences at this point that they should have moved out already!

I'm not sure I can watch this... definitely not at night.  

Edited October 15, 2018 by 17wheatthins
Added episode description and fixed season/episode tag

[Whimsy]

This is the episode that grabbed me the most. Truly horrifying. My heart breaks for Luke. 

[rainsmom]

Okay, the tall floaty man with the cane was awesome! And he just wanted his hat. (That would be an incredible Halloween decoration.)

[Lebanna]

The tall man reminded me of a gondola, pulling himself along with his cane.

That moment where Steve meets Luke and he starts to realize what the aches and stiff joints probably had to mean was heartbreaking. 

Edited October 13, 2018 by Lebanna

[non sequitur]

I am starting to lose interest a bit at this point. Not a fan of the constant time jumps.

The ending of this episode was well done.

[mustbekarma]

I knew that ghost was going to grab Luke under the bed, and I still jumped when it happened.  This show just creeps me out.

[patty1h]

That floating man thing was truly horrific!

[bettername2come]

I'm impressed by how creepy floaty guy on the street (who must have been an actor getting pulled on a skateboard) was so simple yet so creepy. 

[bilgistic]

Imagine being haunted by the subject of a Magritte painting. He was seriously creepy.

Why doesn't adult Luke wear glasses? Does a homeless addict have the discipline to keep contacts clean if he can't keep himself clean?

We now know--or at least I heard in this episode--that the kids went to live with their aunt after their mom died. No mention of dad. I think there's a reason for that--and there was a split-second scene at the end of the last episode that hinted at something--but I'm just going to keep watching and not speculate further!

Edited October 16, 2018 by bilgistic

[Cheezwiz]

I found myself much more interested in the kid Luke's story than the adult Luke. I find stories about addicts really tedious, and this followed the usual template: rehab, get clean and hopeful temporarily, relapse, hit the streets,  get desperate, hit family members up for money, piss everyone off, rinse, repeat. 

But the floating bowler hat man was ingeniously creeeeepy. And I'm sure we'll be seeing more of "Abigail" too.

6 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Why doesn't adult Luke wear glasses? Does a homeless addict have the discipline to keep contacts clean if he can't keep himself clean?

I thought the same thing - it would be more realistic if Luke wore glasses most of the time. Also the grown-up actor is a bit too hunkalicious, and doesn't really resemble the younger version of himself, whereas the other kids really DO look like their respective adult actors (especially the little girl who plays Shirley).

So was Luke actually using and just hallucinating the whole episode with his rehab buddy? Or did he actually stay clean after being ripped off, and once again no one in the family believed him? I also couldn't make out the very last line that ended the episode - what did Luke say? Can anyone explain?

[theartandsound]

6 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

I also couldn't make out the very last line that ended the episode - what did Luke say? Can anyone explain?

Steven told him that Nell committed suicide, and Luke replied with a sure voice that she didn't.

[BeeBop88]

15 hours ago, theartandsound said:

Steven told him that Nell committed suicide, and Luke replied with a sure voice that she didn't.

Luke sure comes off as a sympathetic figure, that is for sure. I didn't even know that he and Nell were twins. I hope he gets his addiction under control.  Steven comes across as cold and distant to his siblings. I don't like that. 

[Lakebum]

On 10/15/2018 at 7:24 PM, bilgistic said:

 

Why doesn't adult Luke wear glasses?

 

Lasik surgery?

[xander874]

Stephen is an ass. I am liking him less with each episode. I hope he gets redeemed because his sanctimonious assery is annoying. 

I said it last episode but I want to adopt kid Luke. So cute

And Magritte man was so creepy. I think this is the first episode I was genuinely creeped out for more than a jump scare. Well done scene 

[Cheezwiz]

22 minutes ago, xander874 said:

Stephen is an ass. I am liking him less with each episode. I hope he gets redeemed because his sanctimonious assery is annoying. 

 

Same, of all the siblings, I'm liking him the least so far. Maybe there will be a twist later on that will change my opinion, but at the moment he sucks.

[Rap541]

Steve's an ass monkey fuck, I agree, but I see where he's just frustrated that everyone disagrees with him but no one coherently explains why he is wrong. This reminds me of the show Bloodline where the siblings never really have a conversation about their striking childhood incident. Steve also reminds me of me, although I am not the oldest. He's one of the ones in the family who is successful, so he's expected to dig everyone out of their problems but no one wants to listen to him. I also give him some free passes with assuming Luke is back on the smack because historically, guess what? Luke usually goes back on the smack and if you don't think its frustrating to be the sober one who has never give up on the addict - because if you make one misstep, they go back on the smack and blame *you* for it, then guess again. A Luke in the family is a constantly ticking time bomb. 

[Anela]

I'm watching this right now, so I haven't read the other comments yet. I'm not liking the oldest brother right now. Steve. When Luke brought his friend home for the day, and Steve is treating him like shit. Also talking about Joey being "slick". I said, "Slick?" at the exact same time as Luke did. What a douche.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Anela

[Anela]

On 10/16/2018 at 3:01 AM, Cheezwiz said:

 

So was Luke actually using and just hallucinating the whole episode with his rehab buddy? Or did he actually stay clean after being ripped off, and once again no one in the family believed him? I also couldn't make out the very last line that ended the episode - what did Luke say? Can anyone explain?

I'm assuming that she was dead. Was she ignored by the guy she approached on the street, when Luke saw her? They've established that the smallest children see people that the others can't. 

After Theo's episode, I was thinking I was glad I hadn't watched it in the dark, even though the horror was mostly a non-supernatural horror. That episode had me thinking that this was what I expected from American Horror Story - I didn't want anything to do with abuse, but just a real haunted house, spooky, chilling. I think I'll re-watch in the dark next week - I almost didn't watch episode three today, because the sun was rising as I watched the second episode, and I was afraid it would take away the atmosphere - until my large dog, who was with me on the couch, started to let out a low growl, and small "woofs" at the wall. He doesn't like reflections and appears to be spooked by the curtain patterns hitting the wall, thanks to sunlight, so I ended up with him sitting in my lap like a child, hugging me. <3 My boy. 

That skinny man with the cane and hat, reminded me of a story I've read online - one that's repeated by others, like an urban legend. A hat man, a smiling man, a dancing man. Things like that. But damn that was scary. I don't understand why they moved into the house, if their mother can sense things like that. Her vision sounded like something that actually happened. I don't remember if the father acts like his wife has abilities, or if he's like other men on TV, who act like their wives are crazy when they see or feel something. 

I want to watch this next episode, but I also want to wait. Damn it. 

[tennisgurl]

I am really fascinated by the idea of seeing the aftermath of a haunted house story like this. Usually with a ghost story like this, the story starts off with the family or whoever going to the house, creepy stuff starts happening slowly but surely, with the kids, then the wife, then the husband, eventually figuring things out, then they either fight the ghosts or make a break for it, and they die, or get out, and thats where the story ends. You dont normally get to see the part where the family is scared for life, the kids have deep seated trauma, and no one really knows how to explain what happened to other people without sounding crazy or like they're hiding something. Its super interesting.

Very gripping episode, poor poor Luke. This episode really does add a lot to what we know about him, and it seems to paint a different picture than what we got from his siblings perspective. They seem to think the worst of him, while in this episode, he comes across as very troubled, but well meaning, and really trying to do better, even while his siblings are cold towards him. Especially Steve, who is so self important and smug, that I can increasingly see why his siblings are annoyed with him all of the time, even beyond just writing his book about their lives. And I can kind of guess what that book was like now. He probably cast himself as the voice of reason in the middle of his crazy, messed up family. 

That floating bowling hat guy was the thing of nightmares. If I had that thing stalking me since childhood, I would probably be screwed up too. But the moment that really gave me chills was when Luke realized what his aches and neck pains meant. Brrrrrr. 

[Rap541]

15 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

This episode really does add a lot to what we know about him, and it seems to paint a different picture than what we got from his siblings perspective. They seem to think the worst of him, while in this episode, he comes across as very troubled, but well meaning, and really trying to do better, even while his siblings are cold towards him.

They're cold to him because he's a drug addict who they have tried and tried to help. At one point Shirley was paying 6k a month for his rehab and didn't have it. He also ran away from rehab and lied to her about it but sure enough, who gets the sympathy? Poor poor tortured Luke, and not bitter Shirley who had to bust her ass to get the money for Luke's treatment and who gets no thanks but lies and the knowledge that she pretty much pissed away money  she didn't have and she's a bitch if she does anything other than continue to support Luke and Luke's problems that he refuses to face or deal with. 

Being the sibling to a Luke is a thankless task because quite honestly when Luke does clean himself up, all the praise goes to Luke for bravely facing his demons and not Steve and Shirley who sacrificed to get him help he mostly pissed away. The problem of Luke in this situation is that he's what? 33? And he's been a heroin addict his family has had to tend since what, his teens? And the *best* he's ever managed in his adulthood is 90 days clean. If his siblings think the worst of him, it's because he shows up to family weddings high, he steals from them, and his personal best is 90 days without drugs. He's the family burden, because he's "sick" everyone has to put up with his shitty choices and tolerate him and the second they cut the cord, they're being unloving assholes to poor poor Luke. I get that he's well meaning and trying to do better but historically he fails and fails and fails and his siblings end up having to clean the shit off the floor when he shits himself, and the second they get tired of wiping his shitty ass and supporting him yet again, they get deemed bad people. 

Sorry, I've dealt with a Luke - its a thankless chore. There's a reason people don't trust well meaning and trying to do better drug addicts - they historically screw you over.

[tennisgurl]

@Rap541 Sorry, didn’t mean to upset anyone, and certainly didn’t mean to say anything about Shirley, and I certainly didn’t call her a bitch or the like. I get why his siblings are over him, and it seems like they’ve tried to help him plenty of times. I was just saying that this episode gave him more context beyond being the screw up little brother, and made me feel bad that his brother didn’t realize there was more going on. Didn’t mean to offend. 

[Rap541]

No, I was prolly being too harsh. I get your point on motivation, I just see why the siblings aren't covering him with kisses every time he shows up. 

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, Rap541 said:

No, I was prolly being too harsh. I get your point on motivation, I just see why the siblings aren't covering him with kisses every time he shows up. 

The thing the show did well is show just how destructive drug addiction is not just to the addict but to everyone who cared about the addict. They cycle of hope that his siblings went through, especially poor Nell, his twin, who felt it harder than any of them, only to be disappointed is torture. And at what point do you give up? What if the next treatment is the one that sticks? What if you gave up just one detox too soon? I feel like, in regards to Luke, that kind of eats away at Shirley. She seems to be someone who is haunted not by the ghosts of Hill House but by her inability to "fix" her siblings. It is sad that no one could convince her it wasn't her responsibility to fix them. 

My heart breaks for all these children, even Steven because they were trying to navigate something they were completely unprepared to deal with with absolutely no help from the adults who were supposed to keep them safe. These children never stood a chance. 

[Cardie]

5 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

She seems to be someone who is haunted not by the ghosts of Hill House but by her inability to "fix" her siblings.

Yes, like the box of kittens, there's no saving them, metaphorically if not literally.

[CrazyDog]

On 10/19/2018 at 5:15 PM, tennisgurl said:

That floating bowling hat guy was the thing of nightmares. If I had that thing stalking me since childhood, I would probably be screwed up too. But the moment that really gave me chills was when Luke realized what his aches and neck pains meant. Brrrrrr. 

Yes, I was totally slow, or so distracted by the creepy man, that I didn't really think about what him being cold was really about. Plus, I am getting a little lost on the time frames. But I enjoy seeing the pieces come together, like revisiting him running into Steven in the hallway.

So he thinks Nell's death wasn't a suicide? I wonder if he knows she was at the house somehow.

Was there any significance to him stealing the camera? And then Steven told him to take it and sell it, but he didn't. 

Kid Luke is absolutely adorable. Adult Luke is heartbreaking. I don't know if any of these characters will get a decently good ending, but I hope he does.

[Lady Calypso]

Wow, this series is getting good. We've had so little of adult Luke that it was interesting to get a whole episode on him. 

I figured it wasn't suicide and that Luke would have a feeling on what happened. With him rubbing his neck a lot, more than it being a tic (I noticed him doing it in the flashback scene with Steve, Leigh, and his friend), that maybe Nell was strangled. I'm sure whatever happened to her was truly horrific. 

Luke's backstory was what was needed. And, with this being a supernatural show, they made it clear as to why he's an addict. It's him blocking out all the images he sees all the time. The creepy floating hat guy was truly creepy. If he's been following Luke around since he was six, then no wonder he was trying to deal with that. I think we've seen Luke deal with seeing the most stuff so far. Him and Nellie, for sure, have dealt with some truly horrific situations. However, that also doesn't excuse the way he's treated his family with his addiction and that it makes sense as to why almost all of them gave up on him. He's been self destructive and his family has been done for a while. That's the choices he has made, why he missed his sister's wedding (speaking of, what happened to her husband and when did Nell start to really lose herself?) and Luke is also very aware of how he's hurt his family. So it's a horrible situation on all ends. Luke created this destruction that has led to his family not wanting much to do with him, but we also know why he started doing drugs in the first place. And honestly, with what we've seen of this show so far, it's understandable. It's not right, but it's understandable.

I felt bad for Luke when his addict friend ditched him. It was clear that was what was going to happen, but I can see why Luke wasn't seeing the clear signs. And now it seems like the house, or whatever it is, is trying to lure him back next. They got Nellie, so now they're working on Luke. I wonder if it's just going to be those two or the entire family as it works up the chain.

That ending was truly something. I did come out of this episode feeling bad for Luke because it's clear what happens when he's sober is just as terrifying to him as when he's drugged up, but he also knows he has to stop being so self destructive. He's living in various vicious cycles.  

[Black Knight]

On 10/16/2018 at 12:01 AM, Cheezwiz said:

I thought the same thing - it would be more realistic if Luke wore glasses most of the time. Also the grown-up actor is a bit too hunkalicious, and doesn't really resemble the younger version of himself, whereas the other kids really DO look like their respective adult actors (especially the little girl who plays Shirley).

Yeah, although I like the actor playing AdultLuke (I remember him from the short-lived series Emerald City) the casting department definitely took liberties in casting him. I guess because they could; there's only two brothers to three sisters and a relatively significant age gap between the brothers (at least as children), so the young boys don't need to look close to their adult counterparts for viewers to know who they are without much trouble. But young Theo and Shirley are close in age.

Faces are hard for me and I rely heavily on hair color, so I'm so relieved that I was already familiar with several of the adult brunette actresses - I've been watching Annabeth Gish and Carla Gugino since I was a kid myself, and I've seen Elizabeth Reaser in several things, so it's impossible for me to get them confused - or I would be in a lot of trouble even with the good casting. So that just leaves Kate Siegel and Victoria Pedretti as actresses I wasn't familiar with already, and their coloring is thankfully different enough that I could differentiate between them quickly, before I got their faces down.

Luke's reaction to Nell's death is interesting in that I was expecting - as probably was Steve and the counselor - for him to fall apart completely at the loss of the one person who always believed him, but in a weird way it seemed to have a galvanizing effect instead. My thought is that it's because he finds it important to make sure the rest of their family knows she didn't take her own life. Theo noted how angry she was with Nell because she felt Nell knew better than most what suicide does to a family. I'm curious to learn how much of the truth Theo felt when she touched Nell's body with her bare hands.

[Black Knight]

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

And now it seems like the house, or whatever it is, is trying to lure him back next. They got Nellie, so now they're working on Luke. I wonder if it's just going to be those two or the entire family as it works up the chain.

Luke and Nell seem to be the low-hanging fruit since they have the easiest time seeing things and the most difficulty in shutting them off. All Theo has to do to close herself off is wear gloves, and Shirley and Steve appear to be low on the sensitivity scale. I suspect the house wants all of them, but the older siblings are harder to pull in for those reasons. Nell's death is probably the bait on the hook.

For why Luke and Nell are so different from Steve and Shirley, I'm thinking it's a function of age. At the point the family moved in, Steve and Shirley were already at an age where they'd gone through the imaginary-friends stage and grown out of it, so they were largely closed off to whatever is in the house. Theo is younger than them, but was fortunate enough that her sensitivity is through touch rather than sight and so wearing gloves is all she has to do to protect herself. (But the blind guy in the support group explained, rather chillingly, why blinding wouldn't be a viable option for those who see rather than feel things.) Luke and Nell, though, experienced the house when they were still at an age fully open to anything, and having learned that these things are real, of course could never close themselves off by virtue of growing up like Steve and Shirley did.

I felt really sad for Luke in this episode whenever he talked about people believing him or not. I get the dad, and Steve and Shirley, because they all range from low to non-existent on sensitivity. Olivia is the missing piece for me here, since she was a sensitive herself and certainly took Theo's powers of sensitivity seriously, so why didn't Luke and Nell receive the same belief and support from her? I hope once the show completes its run of episodes devoted to each member of the younger Crain generation, Olivia- and Hugh-centric episodes follow. There are so many show questions that only the parents can answer - like why was Hugh so insistent that the Dudleys have to stay on as caretakers of the house?

[Peanut6711]

On 10/15/2018 at 8:24 PM, bilgistic said:

Why doesn't adult Luke wear glasses? Does a homeless addict have the discipline to keep contacts clean if he can't keep himself clean?

 

THIS! Agree that between drug addiction and homelessness at times it's hard to imagine he'd manage the maintenance of contacts. Let's hope there's a throw-away line that the aunt paid for corrective surgery after they came to live with her as I doubt his siblings would have during his adult years seeing as how they either didn't have money starting out (Steven) or were already footing his rehab bills (Shirley).

[Proclone]

7 hours ago, Peanut6711 said:

THIS! Agree that between drug addiction and homelessness at times it's hard to imagine he'd manage the maintenance of contacts. Let's hope there's a throw-away line that the aunt paid for corrective surgery after they came to live with her as I doubt his siblings would have during his adult years seeing as how they either didn't have money starting out (Steven) or were already footing his rehab bills (Shirley).

It's not super uncommon for young kids to outgrow needing glasses.  It depends on the reason for the glasses.  Farsightedness isn't unusual in kids, especially younger kids (Luke is only five) and it tends to get better with age.  If he was nearsighted then he would probably need glasses for the rest of his life.   There are other eye problems that glasses can treat that kids can grow out of as well.

[Mabinogia]

Also, if he was a drug addict I doubt he was all that concerned about his sight. Between his eyesight improving as he aged (mine did. Needed glasses as a kid, didn't from mid high school on) and his likely not doing much of anything that requires him to see terribly well, just well enough to jab a needle in a good spot, I wasn't bothered. I would be more bothered if the seemingly unemployed or at best intermittently unemployed, likely homeless dude had a vision plan that allowed him to get glasses. 

[methodwriter85]

On 10/16/2018 at 3:01 AM, Cheezwiz said:

Why doesn't adult Luke wear glasses? Does a homeless addict have the discipline to keep contacts clean if he can't keep himself clean?

Why, to show off those gorgeous baby blues, of course. No, but seriously, goddamn Oliver Cohen-Jackson is hot as hell. He reminds me of a prettier Aaron Rodgers.

Not an addict, but as the early thirtysomething kid brother of three older siblings, I get always feeling dismissed and always feeling judged by your siblings. I did feel bad for Luke, but at the same time, the show did do a good job of showing how much he's imposed on the family.

Relationships with addicts never, ever, ever go well. I did think Steve pretty much called it. An addict can love you and care about you, but they'll still burn you to get their fix.

Edited November 3, 2018 by methodwriter85

[Aliferously]

I thought this was the lesser episode of the four I've seen.

The ghost creeping under the bed made me jump, but in hindsight I found it sort of hokey. Why does he need the cane? He floats, he doesn't actually need to support himself. But then I ask myself the strangest questions.

The old lady reflected in the speaker thing was far creepier.

So, Luke basically kicked himself out of the recovery centre to find his friend, who then skipped off down an alley and he didn't bother to check that she hadn't been attacked or something? I kept waiting for the reveal that Joey (after he found her) was never real in the first place. 

Younger Luke is adorable. 

I loved that line when he asked if anyone else was with Nelly on the other side of the speaker. Theo or the housekeeper. Same difference. Amused me anyway.

Edited November 3, 2018 by Aliferously

[Paloma]

1 hour ago, Aliferously said:

So, Luke basically kicked himself out of the recovery centre to find his friend, who then skipped off down an alley and he didn't bother to check that she hadn't been attacked or something?

Joey said she was going into the alley because she needed to "piss" (I think that was the word she used, though I'm not sure if it actually meant urinating or was code for getting high one last time). She kissed Luke just before she went in there, which kind of stunned him, and it wasn't until after she was gone for a few minutes that he realized she had stolen his cash and/or wallet while she was kissing him. He did run after her then. 

1 hour ago, Aliferously said:

I kept waiting for the reveal that Joey (after he found her) was never real in the first place. 

I thought she was real but was confused about the connection between her leaving rehab and Nell appearing to him about the same time. He found a note, apparently from Joey, that said "Don't follow me" but Nell's apparition said "Go!" Why was Nell telling him to go, and was it really Joey telling him not to follow her or was the note "ghost-written" by Nell to tell him not to follow her to the house?

[Aliferously]

I think it was coincidence. And she was warning her brother to leave rehab to find her (Nellie), not Joey.

Edited November 3, 2018 by Aliferously
edited for clarity

[The Mighty Peanut]

On 10/17/2018 at 10:01 PM, Cheezwiz said:

Same, of all the siblings, I'm liking him the least so far. Maybe there will be a twist later on that will change my opinion, but at the moment he sucks.

I know the general purpose answer is he was traumatized and is protecting himself by refusing to admit the house is anything more than a house, but his attitude towards his siblings still seems off. He was very genuinely invested in being a good big brother, helping his dad, and being part of a family. It's strange that he treats them with such disdain. 

[Cheezwiz]

12 hours ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

On 10/17/2018 at 7:01 PM, Cheezwiz said:

Same, of all the siblings, I'm liking him the least so far. Maybe there will be a twist later on that will change my opinion, but at the moment he sucks.

I know the general purpose answer is he was traumatized and is protecting himself by refusing to admit the house is anything more than a house, but his attitude towards his siblings still seems off. He was very genuinely invested in being a good big brother, helping his dad, and being part of a family. It's strange that he treats them with such disdain. 

Agreed. Kid Steven seemed nice, and exhibited a caring attitude toward his siblings and parents. Adult Steven is a total jerk, and doesn't seem to have any connection to his kinder kid self - trauma or no trauma.

[Rap541]

5 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

He was very genuinely invested in being a good big brother, helping his dad, and being part of a family. It's strange that he treats them with such disdain. 

He might be burned out from years of "Luke is in rehab again and really needs us to stand behind him unconditionally with no judgement" and "Nelly has mental problems but doesn't want to take her meds and getting on her case about it is so very wrong, we have to support her unconditionally" and 

Spoiler

lots of "we're really pissed with you, Stephen, for writing that book so we're going to grind home in your face what an utter shit you are and lord over how we're above taking your shitty money, and then we're all going to quietly take the money and continue to shit on you with our other siblings because we want the money but you're the worst!" from his brother and sisters. 

That Steve went so far as to get a vasectomy in order to not spread his family's mental illness tells me he needed support from his family he never got.

[Nanners]

Quote

No, I was prolly being too harsh. I get your point on motivation, I just see why the siblings aren't covering him with kisses every time he shows up. 

 

Quote

The thing the show did well is show just how destructive drug addiction is not just to the addict but to everyone who cared about the addict. They cycle of hope that his siblings went through, especially poor Nell, his twin, who felt it harder than any of them, only to be disappointed is torture. And at what point do you give up? What if the next treatment is the one that sticks? What if you gave up just one detox too soon? I feel like, in regards to Luke, that kind of eats away at Shirley. She seems to be someone who is haunted not by the ghosts of Hill House but by her inability to "fix" her siblings. It is sad that no one could convince her it wasn't her responsibility to fix them. 

All of this - so well said.  I don’t know if it’s because it’s my time of the month or because I’m a therapist who’s been working extensively recently with clients with history of trauma and addiction, but this show is making me so emotional because it so beautifully illustrates the effects of both, especially this and the last episode.  It’s understandable that without further context of their adult years that the audience would be less sympathetic with Steve and Shirley, but addiction is painful on all involved. And of course Luke would self-medicate, if not just for the instability and sense of abandonment at such an impressionable age.  And of course Steven and Shirley would be disdainful or resentful since they were probably parentified as the older siblings.  How unfair for them.

I keep wondering if there aren’t any ghosts at all, and it’s all just an allegory for trauma. With trauma, flashbacks aren’t just dreams, they can be very vivid experiences (sounds, smells, etc) and often it manifests as fragments and images, especially in situations where one feels trapped and powerless.  And all of the “no one believes me” is so reminiscent of when people do seek help when they’ve been abused, but family is in denial, because believing it would break their reality.

And in real life, we’re all more likely to be Steve, looking for intellectual and rational explanations for a phenomenon that just doesn’t make sense.  I remember how relieved I was to find out that sleep paralysis was a scientifically explained phenomenon, and I wasn’t actually being suffocated at night by a menacing presence.  Actually Steve reminded me of that show Ghost Hunters in its early days when it was actually more about debunking - I loved that show because I legit believed in ghosts (child ofAsian immigrants here) and it was so reassuring.  

Seriously, this show obliterates This Is Us when it comes to family drama and sibling dynamics.  

[truthaboutluv]

On 10/18/2018 at 12:02 PM, Anela said:

I'm watching this right now, so I haven't read the other comments yet. I'm not liking the oldest brother right now. Steve. When Luke brought his friend home for the day, and Steve is treating him like shit. Also talking about Joey being "slick". I said, "Slick?" at the exact same time as Luke did. What a douche.

 

But was he wrong? I'm sorry, call me cold and unsympathetic and an ass too because I was eye rolling along with Stephen most of what Joey was peddling. I didn't trust her for a second and sure enough, she ditched Luke in the end. Though in her defense, she did tell him not to follow her. The fact is, there is a reason it's heavily advised that addicts fresh out of rehab not date anyone for at least a year and definitely don't get too close to another addict. It's a disaster waiting to happen. I don't blame Stephen, who at this point had lived with and dealt with Luke in and out of rehab for years, for being wary and tired. 

 

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They're cold to him because he's a drug addict who they have tried and tried to help. At one point Shirley was paying 6k a month for his rehab and didn't have it. He also ran away from rehab and lied to her about it but sure enough, who gets the sympathy? Poor poor tortured Luke, and not bitter Shirley who had to bust her ass to get the money for Luke's treatment and who gets no thanks but lies and the knowledge that she pretty much pissed away money  she didn't have and she's a bitch if she does anything other than continue to support Luke and Luke's problems that he refuses to face or deal with. 

This.  I also wonder if that wasn't part of the motivation that led Stephen to writing the book. In the first episode, we did see his wife pressuring him a bit to write it as his other books were not selling. And in this episode, it was clear he and Shirley were both going to pay for the rehab until the woman said it was $6,000 which he clearly did not have. That's why Shirley jokes after she pays the whole thing that he'll pay her back when he's a best selling author.

I think Stephen felt the weight of being the older brother than many depended on and finally caved to write the story that his wife and publisher likely all told him would be his best chance at a best seller. And it was. Not that I'm absolving him entirely of everything and denying that he has his asshole tendencies but I think some of the judgments against the character is a little unfair. 

Edited December 30, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[DrSparkles]

I just started the show and I’m burning through the episodes. I didn’t realize they were twins until this episode and I’m on episode seven and I still don’t understand the birth order of the others. Is it Steve, Shirley, Theo?

[Ptay85]

To play devil's advocate w/Steve, the consensus being he is an ass, I would remind everyone that Steve was the oldest, had the most time w/their mother & was the last one to see her alive. As the oldest, he had the maturity to process reality & question his father about what happened, as opposed to the twins, who were too young to understand or even remember everything about that summer, not to mention impressionable enough to believe what adults told them.

While he also enables Luke like Shirley & Nell, his reaction is more in the realm of disappointment, compared to Shirley's anger, Nell's blind support & Theo's avoidance. As an addict myself, I thought Luke's reaction to Steve was void of accountability. He seems to be annoyed when his family, & rightfully so, put up walls to protect themselves & don't get their hopes up when history has taught them not to do otherwise.  He hasn't put in the work yet to regain trust, yet always kind of expects it. An example of this was his reaction to Steve, despite being the one to ask Steve the question about Joey. Luke acted as if Steve gave an unsolicited opinion when in reality, he gave a fair & loving answer & turned out to be right.

I was so put off by that dinner; she was a guest at a dinner at the home of strangers & she hijacks the conversation to discuss the hell that is addiction? Ick. She talked about addiction & withdrawal in a way she seemed to be both playing the victim & attempting to sound interesting & tough via a war story. Meanwhile, Luke appeared to agree mainly in an effort to gain Steve's approval & respect,) & because at the time, he believed Joey's sobriety was a healthy, admirable stage to aim for. However, in reality, she seemed to want or need the chaos of addiction or the tragedy of struggling to be sober. She lives in the past, is extremely negative about sobriety & seems annoyed at the idea of finishing her steps, not because it's hard, like for Luke & the step of a fearless inventory, but rather because she thinks it doesn't matter or a life she isn't sure she wants. Steve saw thru this & was trying to protect Luke while speaking honestly. This was articulated when Steve told Luke a person can be good, you can love them but still be burned by them. This was rather diplomatic on his behalf, because he seemed to know the difference of addiction being a disease for Luke but a personality Joey seems to have embraced or accepted.

Steve is basically the only one who believes in science & logic amongst a family that acknowledge the paranormal. So cut the man some slack.

[Bruinsfan]

I'd say Shirley shares that distinction. The thing is, we know in the context of this story that the people trusting science are in denial. It's hard to be sympathetic to the two eldest siblings covering their ears and going "la la la" to drown out their younger siblings' attempts to talk about and cope with supernatural trauma when we see what the latter are experiencing.