Season 6 Discussion

[KateHearts]

I'm beginning to wonder if the "relationship" between Eric and Leida is strictly a business transaction: he gets her here via the K-1 visa, she can go back to medical school (haha)/get Instagram-famous; and her dad will then support them with all of his supposed millions.  I just can't see that her parents would be so passive about the living arrangements and conditions if there wasn't some sort of ulterior plan.  Mom and Dad agree to let her and Allessandro go with Eric in exchange for her citizenship; they foot the bill.  There appears to be zero attraction between the two- I have only seen one instance of physical contact at all, which was when she threw herself at him at the airport when she arrived.  

I re-watched Kalani's segment last night and the more I watch her, the more she not only irritates me, but angers me.  She fancies herself as the shining example of parenting who is in a position to oversee, criticize and mock her fiance regarding everything he does- with the baby and otherwise. I didn't see much that was alarming- I'm pretty sure that at 6 months or so we carried our babies on our shoulders. It wasn't as if he wasn't holding on.  Their heads are pretty stable at that point. And who is she to criticize- after screaming at him in the car while driving on an interstate, swinging her head back to look at them for long periods of time, and eating snacks at the same time? And on a pettier note, she needs? to work? on the uptalk? everything is a question? Maybe because, as her brother Nick points out, she can't make a decision about anything?

Ashley's comment that "we are seriously lacking in communication" was interesting. Ya think? You mean getting the big D twice a day does not a relationship make? I think I learned something there.  And her TH in which she said, "I can't be checking his phone all the time, wondering who he's talking to. I'm over that."  Well, I think I know why you have had two engagements that didn't end happily. She's a ball of insecurity and will surely sabotage whatever "relationship" it is they have.

I am not in the camp with those who think Jon's mother was awful.  He had a defiant, pissed off look from the beginning, and I'm sorry but not telling your family about your engagement before it hits social media is not acceptable.  On the one hand he wants her approval ("If I had told her ahead of time she would have said no!") and on the other, he makes snarky, rebellious comments ("no, YOU need to do the math right." "Can you give us marital advice? You've been married a few times.") His entire demeanor and attitude reeked of adolescent acting out behavior.  He and Fernanda are very close in emotional age so maybe they'll work out just fine.  

[Kangatush]

3 hours ago, KateHearts said:

I am not in the camp with those who think Jon's mother was awful.  He had a defiant, pissed off look from the beginning, and I'm sorry but not telling your family about your engagement before it hits social media is not acceptable.  On the one hand he wants her approval ("If I had told her ahead of time she would have said no!") and on the other, he makes snarky, rebellious comments ("no, YOU need to do the math right." "Can you give us marital advice? You've been married a few times.") His entire demeanor and attitude reeked of adolescent acting out behavior.  He and Fernanda are very close in emotional age so maybe they'll work out just fine.  

I didn't have a problem with MomJon either.  She wasn't the most open and welcoming, but she was polite and nothing she said seemed like it was out of bitterness.  She asked the questions you would ask of a 19 year old planning marriage.  I understand that it's different when 2 countries are involved, but if you're so in love now, you should be able to handle a long engagement.

[Mrs. Hanson]

18 minutes ago, Kangatush said:

I didn't have a problem with MomJon either.  She wasn't the most open and welcoming, but she was polite and nothing she said seemed like it was out of bitterness.  She asked the questions you would ask of a 19 year old planning marriage.  I understand that it's different when 2 countries are involved, but if you're so in love now, you should be able to handle a long engagement.

I am not in the MomJon Hate Camp either - again, I have a 19 yr old and a 21 yr old.  If, in ten years, one gets engaged to a TEENAGER he willingly admits he bought new boob for, announces said engagement on FB without telling me or other family members first, well then forgive me if I am bit reticent about the whole thing.  I found no bitterness in her voice, only hesitation.  Jon was snotty with his "well you have been married a few times" crack which was not appreciated.  I could be entering Mickey Rooney/Elizabeth Taylor* numbers and that is not the concern here.

*= I am wondering how many people under the age of 40 will get that reference!!  :)

Edited November 30, 2018 by Mrs. Hanson

[CoachWristletJen]

On 11/29/2018 at 10:17 AM, LennieBriscoe said:

The difference as I see it, re: abuse or its potentiality, is that, while we can see (if not agree with) Fernanda's cause as jealousy and Kalani's reasons as over-protectiveness, Steven's angry, bullying, and frankly insane "Don't tell me what to do!" "The baby can wait to eat!" "Get ready!" "Don't tell me not to touch my son!" "Say 'Please! Say 'Please'!" abusive comments to a girl he supposedly loves, a vulnerable young first-time mother right out of major abdominal surgery, are FAR MORE WORRYING to me because of their window to his unpredictable volatility for NO discernible reason.

Why yes, that IS all one sentence!

I would say that Kalani's anger might be more than over-protectiveness although obviously I can't say that with certainty. There's just something in the way that she seems to be boiling over sometimes, kind of bobbing a bit, fairly seething with anger like a pot that's about to explode. The affect is more pronounced in "thinks with his fists" dad who seems more like a "spare the rod, spoil the child" type of guy. Also, she's certainly verbally abusive in a fairly constant stream. Is she going to unleash that steady stream of criticism on Oliver? 

What's really funny about Kalani is her consistently snide and condescending "NPR voice" and yet her decisions are revealing her to be someone who is not particularly bright. Also, I've yet to see her say anything that's especially clever or stunning. Anyone? Maybe the producers have given her some lines to parrot back or they could do that as a mercy. But Asuelu might well be the smarter of the two. I'm hoping any apparent ineptitude on his part is merely a very steep cultural learning curve and being overwhelmed by swimming with the sharks. He could adjust quite well to life here, perhaps getting a job as a bartender or a waiter. One thing he has in his corner that she does not: People will like him! Also, when they do split up, he will definitely find another girlfriend whereas something tells me she'll be miserably single for a looong time! 

[funky-rat]

17 hours ago, KateHearts said:

Or, it's just not a priority.  Some people just drive their car around and don't look at it as a status symbol; or don't feel the need to replace a perfectly functioning vehicle for a higher payment, more expensive insurance... and an older car isn't as big a deal if it gets scratched.  So I think to use "cheap" as a negative word- maybe could be considered "frugal," meaning one has different financial priorities.

It wasn't for me either.  We had a 2004 Kia Spectra and a 1998 Saturn SC2 for a long time.  We enjoyed not having a payment, and the cars worked.  If we traveled, we rented a car.  I finally opted to get rid of the Spectra when it had a spot that rusted through about 2.5 years ago.  We replaced the Saturn in May when we had put 5 starters in it since January (all past the first were under warranty) and we just couldn't justify any more expenses with it.  I'll be honest - I HATE having car payments.

[brilliantbreakfast]

17 hours ago, LGGirl said:

On the first episode, Debbie’s bathroom was shown.   From what I saw in there, she isn’t hurting for money.  I think their old couch was trashed and they got rid of it.  It wasn’t important to them to buy a new one right away.  The whole couch thing with Larissa was just a way for Colt to mindf*ch her.  Hey, I don’t have a sofa in my living room.  Tossed it out and really haven’t cared to buy new one yet.  Lack of funds has nothing to do with it.  

Regarding Colt’s car.   He’s not poor.   He’s cheap.  My MIL is worth millions in cash and lives in a home worth over a million dollars.   She drives an old 2001 car.   She can easily afford to buy a new car.  Won’t even get all the necessary repairs on it either.  Why?  She’s cheap.   Just because one drives an old car doesn’t mean they are poor.

Colt spends his money on what’s important to him.  His cats.  Those are some well dressed and well fed cats.  

Does Debbie work?  The show doesn't make it clear.  If she is living on survivor benefits and some savings (and we don't know how much), plus whatever rent Coltee gives her (probably not much, as living rent-free with Debbie allows her to control him, likewise sharing a car), she may worry constantly about the future -- health problems, etc.  If Debbie has been frugal her whole life, even if she IS financially secure now, she may not FEEL financially secure.  I retired recently, and while I am (compared to many others) financially secure, I still look for bargains, watch my money, get anxious when the financial markets tank, etc.  Sometimes when you've lived your whole life as if the wolf is at the door, it's difficult or impossible to shift gears.  It doesn't mean people are cheap, it can mean that they simply can't adjust to financial security.

As for your MIL's car....how many miles does she put on?  I bought a new car four years ago ONLY because I was sideswiped on a highway and my 10-year-old car was totalled.  It ran great, I loved that car and I would probably be driving it still if it hadn't happened.  I did maintain it, though, and it still looked great.  If your MIL doesn't drive much, her old car may be perfectly adequate.  Of course there may be other things that make her cheap.  My mother was financially secure but cheap and in some ways that's why I'm secure today.

[CoachWristletJen]

4 hours ago, KateHearts said:

I'm beginning to wonder if the "relationship" between Eric and Leida is strictly a business transaction: he gets her here via the K-1 visa, she can go back to medical school (haha)/get Instagram-famous; and her dad will then support them with all of his supposed millions.  I just can't see that her parents would be so passive about the living arrangements and conditions if there wasn't some sort of ulterior plan.  Mom and Dad agree to let her and Allessandro go with Eric in exchange for her citizenship; they foot the bill.  There appears to be zero attraction between the two- I have only seen one instance of physical contact at all, which was when she threw herself at him at the airport when she arrived.  

 

I've entertained this theory myself because their relationship is such an enigma. I do think that it is as real as it could possibly be for the two of them, and my only guessplanation is that Leida's family must have made her feel absolutely terrible about herself! They love her, but they try to show that love by bringing down the hammer of exacting disapproval in the hopes that she will use it to shape up her life. Her father must be a strong figure, too strong in fact, because none of his three offspring seem like riveting successes.  

Eric doesn't think beyond his next beer, and I think Leida looked around at that miserable hovel and wanted to stay only marginally more than she wanted to endure the 12-hour flight home to Indonesia being scolded by her ENTIRE family! I think they make her feel inadequate and lonely,  and the easy way she could wrap Eric around her little finger must have been an odd sort of comfort for her.  He was tolerable during their short vacations when he could actually buy her some stuff. Also, when he was safely overseas, probably texting her from the sanctity of his car. He probably felt like he lucked out big time!

She's suppressed her anger towards Eric for the time being, instead taking it out on his daughter, watching him bow down and take it because it still is a form of punishment for her. The power must thrill her having felt so powerless herself back home. None of it is normal. None of it is healthy. She knows it's doomed and if Eric were capable of thinking ahead, he would know that he had thrown his kids away for a pipe dream.

Edited November 30, 2018 by CoachWristletJen

[magemaud]

9 hours ago, CoyoteBlue said:

 

1. Eric drives 15+ hours to NYC to pick up Leida, her sister and Aless.

2. They all drive back to Wisconsin for 15+ hours, taking a break in a cabin in PA.

3. Her parents end up in Wisconsin at the AirBNB Eric puts them up in. Did they fly into Madison? Did they all drive to NYC AGAIN to pick them up? 

4. Everyone is in NYC to see off the parents as they fly back to Indonesia. For some reason, they don't like the flights out of O'Hare 2-3 hours away? Eric, Leida and Aless drive back another 15+ hours to Wisconsin. 

What I believe happened is that Eric drove to NYC picked up Leida (and Alless and Reina) at JFK and they went to the PA cabin for a few days before they went back to the airport to get the rest of the family. They ALL stayed at the cabin at least one night (remember there weren’t enough bedrooms for everyone) before heading off to Wisconsin. When Leida’s family was returning to Indonesia, again via JFK for some unknown reason, THEY might have flown there as they were “used to staying at five star hotels” but apparently at least Eric drove from Wisconsin again in order to drive Leida and Alless back another 15 hour trek. But here’s my theory, that van was a rental for the show and the only time Eric actually drove the entire way was from PA to WI with the whole fam-damily. 

Edited for clarity: IOW, there was only a one way cross country roadtrip that we SAW, and even that might have been edited to show just the beginning and the end. Dodge vans (or whatever he was driving) are readily available to rent. When they showed Eric, Leida and Alless leaving NYC after saying goodbye to her family, he could have been dropping that van off at the airport, and flying, not driving to Wisconsin. Anything's possible with this misleading editing. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by magemaud

[gonecrackers]

5 hours ago, KateHearts said:

I think I learned something there.  And her TH in which she said, "I can't be checking his phone all the time, wondering who he's talking to. I'm over that."  Well, I think I know why you have had two engagements that didn't end happily. She's a ball of insecurity and will surely sabotage whatever "relationship" it is they have.

Well, in her defense she must've been checking for a reason, & I'm glad for her she found what she needed because better two broken engagements than two divorces.

He's not trustworthy IMO, but she is kind of asking for it with this guy; he's way too young & too much of a player to change, just for her, overnight.

5 hours ago, KateHearts said:

I am not in the camp with those who think Jon's mother was awful.  He had a defiant, pissed off look from the beginning, and I'm sorry but not telling your family about your engagement before it hits social media is not acceptable.  On the one hand he wants her approval ("If I had told her ahead of time she would have said no!") and on the other, he makes snarky, rebellious comments ("no, YOU need to do the math right." "Can you give us marital advice? You've been married a few times.") His entire demeanor and attitude reeked of adolescent acting out behavior.  He and Fernanda are very close in emotional age so maybe they'll work out just fine.  

So true! 

The only issue I have with his mom is the convo should've happened between she & Jon, alone, preferably before Fernanda even showed up. Then again, given he 'announced' the engagement via FB w/o her prior knowledge, he may have been dodging her, & then I understand it just had to be done.

But now that she's got it all out with them & they are clear on her concerns, there's really nothing more she can do except leave her man-baby son to live with whatever happens.

[eatsleep]

18 hours ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

I’ve never had a baby, but I just had an open myomectomy which is basically a c-section that removed fibroids instead of a baby.  There are no words in the English language to describe how it feels to have your abdomen and uterus sliced open, something removed, sewn back together, and then having your uterus shrink rather rapidly.  

Feel better! Hoping you recover quickly!

 

18 hours ago, Kangatush said:

I'm not a Puritan, but if you just wandered up to me and told me your name was Skinz, my brain would Not automatically go to lady gardens (wanted to throw in another euphemism) it's stupid and makes no sense.

And the tattoo is 100% Jayskinz.

True. It could also mean he palys the drums! LOL

OK, you're right; the tat says Jayskinz. The apple didn't fall far from the tree.

 

24 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

The only issue I have with his mom is the convo should've happened between she & Jon, alone, preferably before Fernanda even showed up. Then again, given he 'announced' the engagement via FB w/o her prior knowledge, he may have been dodging her, & then I understand it just had to be done.

But now that she's got it all out with them & they are clear on her concerns, there's really nothing more she can do except leave her man-baby son to live with whatever happens.

Seems like if Fernanada had not pushed the issue, John and Fernanda would have gotten married in NC without even inviting or speaking to Ceci at all. Yes, she clearly said he had been dodging her. Very sad feeling for a mother.

[HaaCHOO]

1 hour ago, CoachWristletJen said:

But Asuelu might well be the smarter of the two. I'm hoping any apparent ineptitude on his part is merely a very steep cultural learning curve and being overwhelmed by swimming with the sharks. He could adjust quite well to life here, perhaps getting a job as a bartender or a waiter. One thing he has in his corner that she does not: People will like him!

I LOVE this, CoachWristlet, and Asuelu!   (Let's just watch and see who will be "the most hated.")

[Ijustwantsomechips]

1 hour ago, eatsleep said:

Feel better! Hoping you recover quickly!

 

Thanks @eatsleep!

[Lily247]

On 11/29/2018 at 11:57 AM, LGGirl said:

I disagree.  Colt lives above the poverty line and Debbie is collecting some sort of widow benefits.  Both are just cheap and stingy, not poor.  Colt loves controlling Larissa by holding the purse strings.   I don’t see him in a hurry for her to get her green card since he will lose most of his power when she makes her own money.   Also, if she worked, Debbie can’t keep an eye on her at home. 

I think that Colt is counting down the days til Larissa can legally work. Im not sure what she could do that is above minimum wage, but he does NOT seem like the type of man who would say that he wants to be the breadwinner. Way too stingy to want to stretch out his income. As a side note, i really dont think that Larissa is all there. 

3 hours ago, magemaud said:

What I believe happened is that Eric drove to NYC picked up Leida (and Alless and Reina) at JFK and they went to the PA cabin for a few days before they went back to the airport to get the rest of the family. They ALL stayed at the cabin at least one night (remember there weren’t enough bedrooms for everyone) before heading off to Wisconsin. When Leida’s family was returning to Indonesia, again via JFK for some unknown reason, THEY might have flown there as they were “used to staying at five star hotels” but apparently at least Eric drove from Wisconsin again in order to drive Leida and Alless back another 15 hour trek. But here’s my theory, that van was a rental for the show and the only time Eric actually drove the entire way was from PA to WI with the whole fam-damily. 

Edited for clarity: IOW, there was only a one way cross country roadtrip that we SAW, and even that might have been edited to show just the beginning and the end. Dodge vans (or whatever he was driving) are readily available to rent. When they showed Eric, Leida and Alless leaving NYC after saying goodbye to her family, he could have been dropping that van off at the airport, and flying, not driving to Wisconsin. Anything's possible with this misleading editing. 

All of thise cross state trips gave me a headache. Why not just everyone fly straight to Wisconsin (via connecting flights) ?? And maybe do some sightseeing in Chicago or wherever is closest. 

[Drogo]

Airs Sunday, December 2, 2018.

[magemaud]

1 hour ago, Lily247 said:

Why not just everyone fly straight to Wisconsin (via connecting flights) ?? And maybe do some sightseeing in Chicago or wherever is closest. 

I know! Who flies from Indonesia to New York when they're going to Wisconsin? Especially when they're supposed to be rich! That's why I think it's all fake and designed to create the most drama. 

[Gem 10]

7 hours ago, CoachWristletJen said:

I've entertained this theory myself because their relationship is such an enigma. I do think that it is as real as it could possibly be for the two of them, and my only guessplanation is that Leida's family must have made her feel absolutely terrible about herself! They love her, but they try to show that love by bringing down the hammer of exacting disapproval in the hopes that she will use it to shape up her life. Her father must be a strong figure, too strong in fact, because none of his three offspring seem like riveting successes.  

Eric doesn't think beyond his next beer, and I think Leida looked around at that miserable hovel and wanted to stay only marginally more than she wanted to endure the 12-hour flight home to Indonesia being scolded by her ENTIRE family! I think they make her feel inadequate and lonely,  and the easy way she could wrap Eric around her little finger must have been an odd sort of comfort for her.  He was tolerable during their short vacations when he could actually buy her some stuff. Also, when he was safely overseas, probably texting her from the sanctity of his car. He probably felt like he lucked out big time!

She's suppressed her anger towards Eric for the time being, instead taking it out on his daughter, watching him bow down and take it because it still is a form of punishment for her. The power must thrill her having felt so powerless herself back home. None of it is normal. None of it is healthy. She knows it's doomed and if Eric were capable of thinking ahead, he would know that he had thrown his kids away for a pipe dream.

What’s in all this for Eric?  She gets the citizenship and goes to school, and he gets what?  To sleep with her?  There doesn’t look like there is a connection there at all.  Is that what all this comes down to?  Sex for him?  There’s some sort of trade there.

[Spike]

On 11/27/2018 at 4:23 PM, gonecrackers said:

I wonder if Jon's mom was just still pissed she found out about the engagement via FB, which really sucks actually.  She seems strongly opinionated & probably is generally; maybe he just didn't have the balls to call her directly knowing how Fernanda's age would cause (valid) concern. So that starts everything off wrong. He handled all of it horribly. Mom was passive-aggressive (if not somewhat aggressive) in voicing her concerns, & he gets nasty & disrespectful in retaliation. Fernanda was rightfully noting that the relationship is bad from both sides. If that's how he's going to handle mom - fear then passive aggression - she's got a long road ahead of her with this guy because it's coming her way as well.

It's not just her age that's the problem, it's that she's a girl marrying a boy, not a man.  (A boy who buys a 19yo "boobies" - holy crap what a man-baby turd).

She needs to run, not walk, back to Mexico & party on.

I thought it was weird that they were acting like the 22-year-old sister with the short boyfriend wearing a backwards baseball cap already owned her own house.  I assumed she just lived with mom and they told mom to skedaddle for the night so that she could have a separate scene with the betrothed.  But then it seemed like Jon and Fer were in the same house and invited mom over.  So maybe they rented an Air BnB?  But then why did the sister answer the door like she lived there?  Production fuckery.

[Spike]

On 11/27/2018 at 4:52 PM, configdotsys said:

I think Jon's mom was less than kind, but-- and I will be the first to admit-- my severe dislike for this couple between his douchebro-ness and her childish lap sitting, throwing drinks, having fits in bars because she is a teenager makes it very hard for me to feel for them. 

This dude is 32, lives in sleepytown USA and was a confirmed bachelor. He probably had tons of throwaway girlfriends and this is how his friends and family knew him. Then he shows up wearing a wedding ring (a stupid thing that he's been doing for a while now) with a teenager who snuggles up to him like she's 5 and whose engagement was found out by family members on Facebook. I can see that being off putting and a WTF moment for his family. Yes, I believe that conversation should have taken place between Jon and Mom outside of Fernanda's ears. But Jon knew what was coming. I blame him for not speaking to Mom first, letting her get her rage on, and telling her that he's marrying Fernanda and not to give her a verbal beat down or talk smack to her. I thought he looked like a ass going after his mother with the smug "You've been married a few times..." to "show Fernanda" how much he will stand up for her. Jesus, he's not 32 he's fucking 15.

I wonder what a few means to Jon.  If it’s three or four she totally deserves to be called out for giving romantic advice.

[Spike]

On 11/27/2018 at 6:08 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

But I recall that in the earlier episodes, Eric said he'd told Tasha she needed to move out, and she hadn't done it.  And Tasha did say she'd been putting in applications, so she apparently was in agreement that she was going to move, and Eric said he'd been not making her pay part of the rent or the bills so she could use that money to get her own place.

Yet the imminent arrival of Leida and her son still didn't light a fire under her.  If that's the case, then I'm fine with Leida being the bad cop on this.  In fact, I was glad she was doing it because it's clear that Eric wasn't going to do it, and Tasha was in no hurry to move, and as far as I know, Leida wasn't led to expect that she'd arrive at a dirty apartment with her son sleeping on an air mattress in her bedroom with her new lover (ick). 

I think he was hoping Tasha would have moved out by the time Leida arrived, but she didn't.  So now what?  That's when he comes up with setting Tasha up in a weekly motel, which seems cruel, but the path to that point was littered with people not doing what they were supposed to be doing--especially Tasha.  And Leida wasn't responsible for any of it, except forcing the issue, which needed to be done with this crowd.

Yes, she was rude to Tasha, and I suppose there's a kinder way to tell someone you've just met, "You need to go," but I understand her frustration.   I think the Tasha apple didn't fall far from the Eric tree, and both of them engage in magical thinking, like Tasha was hoping Leida wouldn't actually show up so she wouldn't actually have to move, and Eric was thinking Tasha would be in a different place by the time Leida showed up even though she wasn't doing anything that actually indicated she was moving.

 

I assumed the hormonal part, anyway, was from being around the pregnant woman, which Steven was not. 

I feel bad for Olga.  She seems pretty with it and capable, and Steven just doesn't.  However, is this constant hand washing the thing now?  I thought humans are supposed to be exposed to germs.  Not dip-in-a-cesspool level germs, but one of the times she was on him about it, he'd just driven them from the hospital to home, which would be more everyday germs.

 

Eric looks like a smoker to me.  I don't think he does smoke, but that's what I picture when I think of smokers, especially the nicotine-colored hair.  David Poor looks as sickly, but doesn't look like a smoker to me. 

Maybe Tasha is estranged from her mother.  Otherwise you would think crashing with her is better than sketchy rape motel.

On 11/27/2018 at 6:27 PM, Deafening Roar said:

Are we still sticking to Kalani saying she was nearly 30 before she gave in and lost her virginity to this sweet, precious, albeit very simple man? I'm not buying it. What exactly was she waiting on? Had Asuelo not come along, would she have continued waiting patiently to lose her virginity?

I'm sorry but Asuelo just isn't a man that I look at and think "man this hunk of a man makes my loins burn" 🤷

I think Eric isn't 40 and Kalani wasn't a virgin for quite some time. They are both lying liars.

I think even drunk American guys with beer goggles would take a pass on Kalani.  Maybe the virginity wasn’t by choice.

[Gem 10]

8 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

Well, in her defense she must've been checking for a reason, & I'm glad for her she found what she needed because better two broken engagements than two divorces.

He's not trustworthy IMO, but she is kind of asking for it with this guy; he's way too young & too much of a player to change, just for her, overnight.

So true! 

The only issue I have with his mom is the convo should've happened between she & Jon, alone, preferably before Fernanda even showed up. Then again, given he 'announced' the engagement via FB w/o her prior knowledge, he may have been dodging her, & then I understand it just had to be done.

But now that she's got it all out with them & they are clear on her concerns, there's really nothing more she can do except leave her man-baby son to live with whatever happens.

If I could have slapped Jon’s face I would have.  To speak to his Mother that way and mention her previous relationships was over the line.  He must have been a spoiled brat years ago and still is.  His Mother did not say anything any other Mother would have.  He must have been a handful growing up.  Good Luck Feranda when the sex wears off.

[Awfarmington]

38 minutes ago, Spike said:

I wonder what a few means to Jon.  If it’s three or four she totally deserves to be called out for giving romantic advice.

I thought he said a couple? If that’s the case, he shouldn’t be throwing shade. It sounds she like married John’s dad when she was very young, and probably not mature enough to pick a life long partner. I know 20 year old me was far different than 30 year old me. If she’s had a few marriages, then she definitely becomes the common denominator. 

[CSS.MD]

On 28/11/2018 at 7:27 AM, Deafening Roar said:

I think Eric isn't 40 and Kalani wasn't a virgin for quite some time. They are both lying liars.

His eldest daughter (Tasha’s big sister is supposedly 21, so he was ~19 when he had her).

Maybe if they are lying about his age, it’s to mask an age gap. The impression I’m getting from Leida and Eric so far is that Leida’a trying VERY hard (too hard) to stay as far as possible from the stereotype of what kind of Indonesian-westerner couple they are.

Someone posted this link on the spoiler thread: http://www.jakarta100bars.com/2010/04/what-do-indonesian-girls-look-like.html?m=1 (it doesn’t concern “90-Day Fiancé” but rather Indonesian stereotypes, so I’m going to assume it’s okay for me to post this here).

Notice that under the “models/socialite” section, the author (who I’m assuming is a westerner) says that in Indonesia, westerners will have a “window of opportunity” to date an actress/model (IMPLYING WE HAVE LOWER STANDARDS! I’m insulted—LOL).

Except in reality, Eric–Leida do fit this stereotype. He gets to go around claiming he’s “with a beauty queen” (not so sure about the model/actress part—because seeing how she displays her pageant sash, I’d think if she really had legit acting credits, she’d post them all over the place). And she’s an Indonesian wannabe actress with very low standards who wants something from her westerner boyfriend/fiancé/partner.

The man is stereotypically older and the Indonesian girlfriend is much younger.

Another stereotype is that if you marry an Indonesian woman (especially if she’s marrying a westerner to escape poverty), you’ll end up having to support her entire family too (help with their younger siblings’ tuitions, help renovate the parents’ house).

It’s a business transaction. Especially if they’ve slept with each other (since premarital sex isn’t accepted in Indonesia), you can “demand” a marriage on the basis that he’d already “defiled” you. It’s like how in the Victorian era/turn-of-the-century or whenever, a woman in the western world would ask to Ben married if they got pregnant because that’s what’s considered the “right thing” to do in that situation.

And this also applies to Indonesian/Indonesian couples, by the way (not only when Indonesians marry westerners they perceive to Ben wealthy). This is why I felt like my family was in trouble when my brother’s girlfriend got him to open a joint bank account within a year of knowing (not dating) him, and when both parents met, her mother started complaining to my mother about their family finances right off the bat ON THE FIRST TIME THEY MET.

Leida and Eric just reek of overcompensation to me... She’s trying to be the one Indonesian woman who isn’t after some western dude’s money, but then the first thing she does is pretend she doesn’t know what “child support” is and demands he stop paying it to his ex-wife...

Action versus words.

It’s like she’s trying so hard to make a point of how different she is from not-so-coy-gold-digger Anfisa, or how she’s “totally not bookshelf-arranging Nikki” (because look: “Instead of arranging Mark’s books by size like the I’m too uneducated to understand that books are better arranged by category, I’m complaining about how not proper THE WHITE GUY’s living arrangements are.” I’m not here to be the maid, I will demand a maid). EYE-ROLL.

I wouldn’t even be surprised if Leida feels competitive towards David’s inability to pay Annie’s dowry!

Personally, I find her entire being distasteful. Having learned what “co-parenting” the “right way” (for the childrens’ sakes) entails, I personally wouldn’t mind marrying a middle-aged man whose children are all of legal age than marry someone in my own age group but has minor children from a previous marriage. Just as long as I don’t have his ex-wife breathing on the back of my neck until the children turn 18. People think I’m “selfish” for refusing to date men with children from previous marriages at all, but it’s only because I would NEVER stop a man from paying child support to his minor children!

I still think it’s possible for Eric to be 40 (despite the 21-year-old daughter, because it’s “Teen Dad” on MTV possible, LOL). And if his children/family confirm that he is 40, I’ll believe them.

However, if he is lying about his age, my guess would be it’s because Leida wants to prove she doesn’t fit a stereotype...

WHICH SHE DOES.

That being said, not every single Indonesian woman who marries a westerner is like that! My very own aunt for example married a German guy (he’s actually younger than her, IIRC) who she met while she was working at the UN. The German guy doesn’t “support our extended family financially”. And I mean the guy works at the UN, so he’s not a loser like Eric and therefore she doesn’t fit the stereotype of the-Indonesian-woman-lowering-her-standards-for-some-westerner-man.

I mean let’s be real: Eric (although I 100% agree that his service to his country deserves respect) is sort of a loser just based on what he did to Tasha. EVEN BY DESPERATE INDONESIAN STANDARDS.

😒😒😒😒

Edited December 1, 2018 by CSS.MD
🥤

[Spike]

On 11/28/2018 at 2:17 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

That's part of my point.  The 8-10 days shouldn't have mattered because it was my impression she had agreed to move well before that, but just hadn't done it.  That's on her, and it's on Eric for not making her follow through.  Of course, he apparently doesn't have much to bargain with, although he said he was picking up her part of bills and rent, so he's got something. 

This is where a decent host on an after show could do some real good.  Ask Eric and Tasha separately if Tasha had agreed to move out, and if so, the pertinent dates, and then compare their answers.  But if the producers wanted us to know this, they would have told us already, so that's not gonna happen.

 

I don't think Leida was acting as a parent, but more as a roommate to another adult.  But that makes me wonder what Eric's role should be with respect to Tasha, if they're splitting the rent and she's acting more like a roommate than his child. 

And maybe Tasha was polite because she knew she should have already moved out.  But I can't get into her head at all because there's no way I would let my place be a pig sty like that.  Maybe Eric did do it all and she didn't add to it but let it stay that way to punish Leida--I don't think that's what happened, but even if it did, I couldn't do that if it meant I had to live in it in the meantime.

I do know that if I were in Leida's position, I'd be pissed about having to clean that sty in order to make it habitable, and after that still be sharing the apartment and having my kid sleeping on an air mattress next to my bed.  Leida failed at being polite, but that's minor compared to the failures that have led them to be in this position in the first place. 

Didn’t Tasha admit on the aftershow that between 50 and 75 percent of the mess was hers?  When someone gives a range like that, I lean toward the higher number.

[Spike]

On 11/28/2018 at 9:36 PM, guilfoyleatpp said:

Thanks for reminding me of this. I had forgotten about that. At the time it struck me as an odd thing to say, weirdly threatening as she had zero power to do anything about whether or not he was allowed.

And the waiting to be fed thing...that was another weird thing to say. 

I do want to root for them..they both had such less than ideal beginnings, but he's making it really hard. 

Maybe she should have got to know him before having unprotected sex. Just sayin’.

[iwasish]

2 hours ago, Spike said:

Maybe she should have got to know him before having unprotected sex. Just sayin’.

And vice versa. Nothing prevented him from wearing a condom. 

[Spike]

10 minutes ago, iwasish said:

And vice versa. Nothing prevented him from wearing a condom. 

Yeah but she is the one saddled with a crazy one for the next 20 years.  

[Raja]

5 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

What’s in all this for Eric?  She gets the citizenship and goes to school, and he gets what?  To sleep with her?  There doesn’t look like there is a connection there at all.  Is that what all this comes down to?  Sex for him?  There’s some sort of trade there.

Don't underestimate how powerful a motivator that is. A man actively trolling international dating sites, knowing he will have to pay Uncle  Sam for the privilege is probably at, or at least should be at, or near the desperation phase

[iwasish]

2 hours ago, Spike said:

Didn’t Tasha admit on the aftershow that between 50 and 75 percent of the mess was hers?  When someone gives a range like that, I lean toward the higher number.

Ideally, IF Tasga was supposed to move out ( and I doubt it), it should have been s done deal BEFORE he left to get married. He then could have left the apartment clean and neat and it would have stayed that way til his return. 

But I don’t think it was ever agreed that she would move. What’s the rush anyway? He told Leida he’s been  looking at houses and even had a particular one in mind. If so, then they should just keep with the status quo til the house deal is done and Tasha can stay in the apartment alone. 

The reason it’s not going that way is because HE CANT afford a house and he probably can’t qualify for  new apartment on his own either,  Tasha added him to her lease. So his only option is to get her out of this apartment. Even that maybe a problem, If Tasha tries to leave before the end of her lease, unless Eric qualifies for the rent on his own , she maybe forced to either continue to pay 1/2 the rent or stay there if she can’t pay that and rent on a new place. I’ve watched enough Judge Judy to know you just cant break a lease, you can get stuck paying for rent and penalties. 

5 minutes ago, Spike said:

Yeah but she is the one saddled with a crazy one for the next 20 years.  

Of course.....As JJ says “YOU PICKED HIM”

Her saving grace is that right now she’s in Russia. My advice to her is STAY THERE. Steven doesn’t have the money or the mindset to start an expensive international legal battle for “baby”. 

[Spike]

25 minutes ago, iwasish said:

Ideally, IF Tasga was supposed to move out ( and I doubt it), it should have been s done deal BEFORE he left to get married. He then could have left the apartment clean and neat and it would have stayed that way til his return. 

But I don’t think it was ever agreed that she would move. What’s the rush anyway? He told Leida he’s been  looking at houses and even had a particular one in mind. If so, then they should just keep with the status quo til the house deal is done and Tasha can stay in the apartment alone. 

The reason it’s not going that way is because HE CANT afford a house and he probably can’t qualify for  new apartment on his own either,  Tasha added him to her lease. So his only option is to get her out of this apartment. Even that maybe a problem, If Tasha tries to leave before the end of her lease, unless Eric qualifies for the rent on his own , she maybe forced to either continue to pay 1/2 the rent or stay there if she can’t pay that and rent on a new place. I’ve watched enough Judge Judy to know you just cant break a lease, you can get stuck paying for rent and penalties. 

Of course.....As JJ says “YOU PICKED HIM”

Her saving grace is that right now she’s in Russia. My advice to her is STAY THERE. Steven doesn’t have the money or the mindset to start an expensive international legal battle for “baby”. 

Yeah I didn’t mean to suggest the woman bears more responsibility.  In this case she just has more to lose if he remains entangled in her life.

Anytime a couple has unprotected sex they should assume a pregnancy will result.  (There can be mistakes while using birth control but far less likely.)  And they need to ask themselves two questions.  Is this person someone I want to be a parent to my child?  And do I want to have to deal with this person for the next two decades?  If the answer to either is no, use birth control or abstain. 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Spike

[bravofan27]

It's too painful for me to even look at Steven. It's all, "me, me, me, I, I, I." Olga is not your grandma trying to make up for messing up your mom/dad or whoever it was that couldn't raise you. Stephen sucks and I hope to never see him on the screen again. Thanks DVR for making this possible.

Eric and Leida are the strangest couple ever. It's all SO shady. They both seem to love being miserable and unhappy. Eric looks suicidal at all times. The young boy appears miserable as well. Leida as a doctor is laughable. She would maybe be good selling opioid Rx to drug addicts. I can see her having a short run as a pain doc in a strip mall. Both Eric and Leida are spoiled brats.

 

I just can't stand Jonathan. He seems like a real snake, and not-so-closet coke head. He's just sweaty, beady-eyed and gross. He's getting a steal with Fernanda who is none the wiser and makes him look great. He got lucky. His mom was a passive aggressive bitch-- like he is.

I love how Larissa puts an "e" at the end of most of her english words. It makes me laugh. She is definitely entertaining. And has the patience of an angel to put up with Coltee an his momee. She's really determined to make this happen. Coltee (he said his mom was disabled so I'm assuming she's collecting disability, her own SS, and his dad's SS) will ditch his mom as soon as Larissa gets some income.

That's all I got!

[iwasish]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

Yeah I didn’t mean to suggest the woman bears more responsibility.  In this case she just has more to lose if he remains entangled in her life.

Anytime a couple has unprotected sex they should assume a pregnancy will result.  (There can be mistakes while using birth control but far less likely.). And they need to ask themselves two questions.  Is this person someone I want to be a parent to my child?  And do I want to have to deal with this person for the next two decades?  If the answer to either is no, use birth control or abstain. 

I happen to agree actually. As a teen my mom pretty much drummed it into us girls heads that an accidental pregnancy might be the fault of both guy and girl but that it’s the girls that carry the baby, and in MOST cases the responsibility and the stigma, and can even be blamed for ruining the guys future by “saddling” him with a kid. I’m not saying that SHE felt that way,  just that in society at that time, it was the prevailing sentiment. Even know it’s easier and not uncommon for the guy to walk away and not be judged too harshly for it. 

[athousandclowns]

I am pretty sure once you are on permanent disability which usually takes 2 years and a lawyer you don't get social security . You also only get either your SS or your spouse which ever is more . I don't see him dumping mom. 

[endure]

16 hours ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

I am not in the MomJon Hate Camp either - again, I have a 19 yr old and a 21 yr old.  If, in ten years, one gets engaged to a TEENAGER he willingly admits he bought new boob for, announces said engagement on FB without telling me or other family members first, well then forgive me if I am bit reticent about the whole thing.  I found no bitterness in her voice, only hesitation.  Jon was snotty with his "well you have been married a few times" crack which was not appreciated.  I could be entering Mickey Rooney/Elizabeth Taylor* numbers and that is not the concern here.

*= I am wondering how many people under the age of 40 will get that reference!!  :)

Fernanda made a comment that there was a lack of respect shown in the convo John had with his Mother and i agree, he showed his mother very little.  In the preview episode tonight she does show up for the dress shopping and is actually quite understanding and supportive to Fernanda when she has an emotional breakdown.  I think she’s resigned to the idea now that it is going to happen.

[CSS.MD]

2 hours ago, endure said:

Fernanda made a comment that there was a lack of respect shown in the convo John had with his Mother and i agree, he showed his mother very little.  In the preview episode tonight she does show up for the dress shopping and is actually quite understanding and supportive to Fernanda when she has an emotional breakdown.  I think she’s resigned to the idea now that it is going to happen.

Somebody must’ve taught that girl the rule of thumb that, “if a man treats his mother poorly, then he treats all women like crap.”

And frankly, good for her for knowing that at that age.

The other rule of thumb is: If you get a man by stealing him from another woman, that’s exactly how you’ll lose him (my mother taught me that). I’d take it further to: If a man leaves me for another woman, over my dead body will I take him back, because he’ll just do it again. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Wouldn’t blame her if she got cold feet.

TAKE THE BOOBS AND RUN, GIRL!

Edited December 1, 2018 by CSS.MD

[AZChristian]

8 hours ago, bravofan27 said:

I love how Larissa puts an "e" at the end of most of her english words. It makes me laugh. She is definitely entertaining. And has the patience of an angel to put up with Coltee an his momee. She's really determined to make this happen. Coltee (he said his mom was disabled so I'm assuming she's collecting disability, her own SS, and his dad's SS) will ditch his mom as soon as Larissa gets some income.

That's all I got!

I tend to cut Larissa some slack on her "ee" additions.  I studied French for one year of high school, and am aware of the rules of whether you pronounce consonants at the end of a word.  But I probably mess it up once in a while when I'm trying to speak the language.  Shoot, a lot of Americans can't figure out whether to use "a" or "an" as an indefinite article.  

A person can only draw on one Social Security account at a time.  A retired wife can draw on hers, while the hubby draws on his.  If he predeceases her, she can switch from her own SS to his, (usually it's larger).  But a person can't draw on both.

[Kelly]

22 hours ago, CoachWristletJen said:

What's really funny about Kalani is her consistently snide and condescending "NPR voice" and yet her decisions are revealing her to be someone who is not particularly bright.

Yep

NPR voice...LMAO.

[Gem 10]

11 hours ago, Raja said:

Don't underestimate how powerful a motivator that is. A man actively trolling international dating sites, knowing he will have to pay Uncle  Sam for the privilege is probably at, or at least should be at, or near the desperation phase

I get that, yes.  What ..he couldnt find a woman on a USA site?  Or does an Indonesian woman excite him?  She looks like a “spitfire” who will have him running around in circles.  Haha.  Plus, he’s throwing away his daughter for her.  What a jerk.  It doesn’t appear well already.  Astounding what all these people will do to live here.

[Mothra]

On 11/30/2018 at 6:19 AM, KateHearts said:

I'm beginning to wonder if the "relationship" between Eric and Leida is strictly a business transaction: he gets her here via the K-1 visa, she can go back to medical school (haha)/get Instagram-famous; and her dad will then support them with all of his supposed millions.  I just can't see that her parents would be so passive about the living arrangements and conditions if there wasn't some sort of ulterior plan.  Mom and Dad agree to let her and Allessandro go with Eric in exchange for her citizenship; they foot the bill.  There appears to be zero attraction between the two- I have only seen one instance of physical contact at all, which was when she threw herself at him at the airport when she arrived.  

I agree with you.  I think their whole relationship is a charade to get her a visa, so she can establish herself as the Asian Kardashian--I doubt very, very much that medical school is on the horizon--with Eric along for the ride a la Scott Disick, hoping that some of the money will drip down to him.   At least it was fun every once in a great while to watch SD make an ass of himself, Eric is so repellent that I doubt even Kim herself could make him watchable.  It will be fun,  however, to see just how these two plan to achieve fame.  I believe they are already accruing fans on social media, but translating that into money is the big question.

[magemaud]

14 hours ago, CSS.MD said:

His eldest daughter (Tasha’s big sister is supposedly 21, so he was ~19 when he had her)

That reminds me, what's the story with Eric's oldest daughter, I think it's Tenille? Where does she live? Didn't we "meet" her in the first episode? Has there been any mention of her since? 

[Spike]

2 hours ago, magemaud said:

That reminds me, what's the story with Eric's oldest daughter, I think it's Tenille? Where does she live? Didn't we "meet" her in the first episode? Has there been any mention of her since? 

Maybe she lives with The Captain?

[zenme]

Of course Asuelo doesn't know exactly how to care for a baby. He's young, and he's said he didn't have experience with babies, and that in Samwa the women care for the babies. Koolani is gonna have to teach him...just like couch surfer Steven. Something tells me Father Koolani didn't know how to care for babies either.  He looks like he left all that to mama Koolani, and she taught him.

 Olga needs to ditch Stephen, like yesterday. I just see nothing but poverty and restraining orders in her future if they come to America. 

Leida is a bitch. So, did her father boot her to the streets of Indonesia? Did he make her pay rent? So why should it be different for Tasha? Why should Tasha be tossed in to a fuck motel? Eric is a liar and has no business taking on a family if he can't even afford to live alone in the first place. 

[lucy711]

16 hours ago, iwasish said:

I happen to agree actually. As a teen my mom pretty much drummed it into us girls heads that an accidental pregnancy might be the fault of both guy and girl but that it’s the girls that carry the baby, and in MOST cases the responsibility and the stigma, and can even be blamed for ruining the guys future by “saddling” him with a kid. I’m not saying that SHE felt that way,  just that in society at that time, it was the prevailing sentiment. Even know it’s easier and not uncommon for the guy to walk away and not be judged too harshly for it. 

I agree.  While it is the job of both parties to use protection, the girl has a lot more to lose.  I mean at the very least, she is either going to be pregnant for 9 months or decide to get an abortion.  Those are both pretty big deals.  In the case of Olga and Steven, I mostly blame him.  Olga might not have insurance or access to the pill, and as a foreigner in America, she might not know where to get condoms.  Steven could have gotten condoms pretty easily.  They aren't foolproof, but DH and I used them for a long time without issue.

[magemaud]

3 minutes ago, lucy711 said:

Steven could have gotten condoms pretty easily.

I thought they said they had used protection every time except the one she got pregnant. 

[Spike]

1 hour ago, magemaud said:

I thought they said they had used protection every time except the one she got pregnant. 

Yup they were either too lazy or too cheap to get one that time.  And it only takes once.

[iwasish]

2 hours ago, magemaud said:

I thought they said they had used protection every time except the one she got pregnant. 

That’s what they all say.

[Spike]

Just now, iwasish said:

That’s what they all say.

I know morons in their 20s and 30s who use the withdrawal method and think it’s effective.

[magemaud]

3 hours ago, iwasish said:

6 hours ago, magemaud said:

I thought they said they had used protection every time except the one she got pregnant. 

That’s what they all say.

Yeah, I know, but after seeing how angry Steven gets, Olga probably was afraid to say no to unprotected sex. 

[CoyoteBlue]

On 11/30/2018 at 10:37 AM, magemaud said:

IOW, there was only a one way cross country roadtrip that we SAW, and even that might have been edited to show just the beginning and the end. Dodge vans (or whatever he was driving) are readily available to rent. When they showed Eric, Leida and Alless leaving NYC after saying goodbye to her family, he could have been dropping that van off at the airport, and flying, not driving to Wisconsin. Anything's possible with this misleading editing. 

 

Yeah, I had been under the impression that the parents got an eyeful of The Apartment at some point. But who knows - each episode seems to have three versions aired ("First Look", the standard episode, "More to Love") so I never know whether something is a new ep or just the same episode with more content.

ETA MomJon needs to take a couple Valium. Seriously, woman, he's getting married, not donating an organ to her. If they're terrible at it, they'll divorce, and trust me, she'll come out on the shitty end of that deal. So calm the fuck down and enough with the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Edited December 2, 2018 by CoyoteBlue
2 cents on MomJon

[Pepper Mostly]

On 11/30/2018 at 8:04 PM, Spike said:

Maybe Tasha is estranged from her mother.  Otherwise you would think crashing with her is better than sketchy rape motel.

Maybe mom lives in a tiny apartment with the youngest child and can't squeeze Tasha in. Moving back in with mom is not always practical. 

[KateHearts]

7 hours ago, CoyoteBlue said:

MomJon needs to take a couple Valium. Seriously, woman, he's getting married, not donating an organ to her. If they're terrible at it, they'll divorce, and trust me, she'll come out on the shitty end of that deal. So calm the fuck down and enough with the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I agree that Jon is a grownup and Mom shouldn't lose sleep over his seemingly uncharacteristic decision to settle down. But still... he  set the stage by first not being adult about it all and letting her know he was getting married before the news hit facebook; and secondly by admitting that he needed and sought her approval. He still behaves like a little boy who needs Mom to validate him.  (Hence, his comment that "If I'd told her ahead of time she would have said no.")  I have a 33 year old son and he sometimes calls and tells us he has an idea that we think is hare-brained. But he certainly doesn't ask our permission; nor does he need it.