S01.E03: Maybe

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Beck isn't certain that Joe is The One, so he sets out to prove he's boyfriend material; balancing this important time in their blossoming relationship with the tricky maneuvers he's been pulling behind the scenes proves challenging for Joe.

 

[formerlyfreedom]

This is the topic to discuss the episode; please take discussion of the book (including comparing the two) to the Book Talk topic. Posts will be removed if they discuss the book. Thank you.

[VioletNevermind]

I am really enjoying this show quite a lot.  Instead of being an instant turnoff, I find Joe’s considerable creepy factor to be devilishly fun.  Beck is a pathetic figure to me and I’m frustrated that Joe likes her as much as he does.  I haven’t read the book (yet!), so I have no clue where this story can possibly go, but I’m looking forward to seeing it through.  I crossed over this week from casually planning to watch this show on Sunday to looking forward to it all day on Sunday.  

[LittleIggy]

How did Joe get the stench of death out of that basement so quickly, especially the “book cell” where the bodily secretions had leaked out? ?

Blythe sure is full of herself. Wonder if she will end up in a bonfire?

The guy playing Joe is so good I find myself rooting for him even though he is a stalker and a murderer.

Edited September 24, 2018 by LittleIggy

[pwdrpuff]

I'm truly impressed that this is a Lifetime series, because it doesn't seem like your usual hokey day-time female drama lacking story or acting.  The acting and narration is actually on point, which confuses the hell out of me this is on lifetime.  Okay, so back to the show.  Joe is a creepy dude that's somehow still an endearing anti-hero.  Maybe because he's cutely narrating and providing us his perspective.  Now for the matter of why Beck, other than being a fixation of his imagination.  His fixation on this very imperfect gal, that likes to pass herself around like she's the only napkin at a picnic, leads me to think he is flat crazy.   Yeah, killing the dude earlier didn't give me that impression. 

Edited September 24, 2018 by pwdrpuff

[Faithy]

Becks self-absorption and obsession with how others view her is grating on me. I adore Joe’s face. I like how the most Joe-sceptic characters see elements of themselves reflected; Peach defensive that she might slip from being all important and revered by Beck. Paco’s step-dad sees a fellow ‘bad guy’ in him. The flash backs to Mr. Mooney set Joe up to be a sociopath (created) not a psychopath (born). I think Joe must have also killed him to have possession of the car and bookstore. I am not sure why they spent so much time on the writing class and the Blythe character (played by the trans actress who I really liked in Transparent), unclear where that story going.

[biakbiak]

I find the show interesting but I in no way find the lead charming or rootable even if Beck is an asshole.

[Spartan Girl]

I find myself getting hooked on this as my new Sunday guilty pleasure. Joe is a creep but I do enjoy his narration. 

Starting to think the little boy is the only innocent person in the whole show. Hope nothing bad happens to him.

[eXiled]

I find this show interesting if only because I don't like Joe OR Beck. Penn Badgely is as empty as he was in Gossip Girl, but I believe his utter stillness works for his character in this show. Superficially attractive and charming, Joe is one of those men who believes himself to be a nice guy -- but who is in fact, actually, a creep. All that buildup and dude couldn't even give Beck one minute of ecstasy. Oh, well. Just another setback for our intrepid protagonist.

I like that Beck isn't perfect. Joe's quickness to explain away her faults reads as truthful to me. Haven't we all made excuses when someone we liked acted like an asshole? I just hate that there will be people who find Joe's stalky ass endearing simply because they think he's cute. Ugh.

This show would really become interesting if Beck transformed from Joe's dream girl into his worst nightmare.

Meanwhile, I'm shipping Beck and Peach. Shay Mitchell will always be Pretty Little' Liar's Emily to me, so I want to see her survive* this show, beat the breaks off Joe's crazy ass, and get the girl in the end.

 

*After watching nearly every Lifetime Movie ever made, I've learned that the bestie rarely survives

[dubbel zout]

Blythe is hilarious, though I'd have a hard time not ostentatiously rolling my eyes at her every time she opens her mouth. She's the perfect foil for Beck in the MFA story, too, as her absurd self-confidence totally undercuts Beck's self-doubt, which is starting to get on my nerves. Here's an idea, Beck: How about actually sitting down and trying to write something? Procrastination is the one way you absolutely won't get anything down on paper. Heh. 

Joe keeping Benji in the book vault for three days is something I'm just going to hand wave. 

1 hour ago, eXiled said:

*After watching nearly every Lifetime Movie ever made, I've learned that the bestie rarely survives

I liked that they made Peach smart enough to realize the Oz book was missing and link it to Joe. She's either dead by the end of the series or the one who unmasks Joe as the creep he is, I think. A showdown between those two could be really good.

I also don't really like Joe or Beck—they're both insufferable in different ways, not to mention Joe is thisclose to being a serial killer—but the story keeps me invested.

[EdnasEdibles]

I don't know if Peach is smart enough to trap Joe and expose him. I think she's smart enough to figure out who she is but she seems like the kind of person who thinks she's the most special and most brilliant person in the room and her ego will be her downfall. I don't see her lasting.

Beck is so very annoying though. I mean, she doesn't deserve a creepy stalker like Joe but she is just not annoying. I keep thinking "Really? Her?" I mean, she's pretty but that's about it. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Beck's porno/sex hotline voice, "Hiiiiii......" makes me insane.  Vocal fry?  I honestly don't know if this is intentional on the part of the direction or it's just the actress.  Oh my god is it annoying.  But I totally believe that guys would fall for her.  If someone is skinny and blonde, some men will just fall and come up with the justifications later.  These justifications for falling in love seem to rarely happen (in pop culture) with women who are overweight or not conventionally attractive.

Even Joe finds her boring and annoying.  His narration says as much.  But he keeps pushing forward.  But I guess that's realistic.  Men who think they own you get mad at you for not doing exactly what they want.

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I find myself getting hooked on this as my new Sunday guilty pleasure. Joe is a creep but I do enjoy his narration. 

I'm wayyyyy too hooked too.  Waiting for Sunday is painful.  Especially when there's so many shows that you can just binge now.

I think my last few seconds of the episode were cut off -- I heard Beck say "Did you just----" and then blackness.  Was there anything else?

Edited September 24, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[Chaos Theory]

I am a big fan of lifetime movies so I was really looking forward to this and it’s better then I could have hoped for.  

The show  did itself a lot of favors by making Joe more likable then Beck almost to the point where you are wondering  why he is going to all the trouble for a girl who doesn’t deserve HIM.  You almost forget he is stalking her and has already killed someone.  

I really like Peach and maybe it’s Shay  Mitchell but does anyone else think she has a thing for Beck?  

Edited September 24, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[kdm07]

Started watching this with the gf and we've gotten hooked lol! I'm not rooting for anyone except the kid.

Joe is extra creepy and a murderer (probably not the first time he's killed someone). Dan from GG is definitely engaging in this role but I can't see myself rooting for him like I did Dexter.

Beck is very much all about her image and turns it on or off based on who she's with. Whoever said she likes to be seen was right and she plays up to it so much.

Peach is incredibly self-centered but seems fairly self-aware too? She also may not be close with her parents but her grandfather's work and books in general must mean a lot to her if she can pick out a missing book and know exactly which one it is.

 

Quote

I really like Peach and maybe it’s Shay  Mitchell but dies anyone else think she has a thing for Beck?

I though that too @Chaos Theory

Edited September 24, 2018 by kdm07

[EdnasEdibles]

35 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I think my last few seconds of the episode were cut off -- I heard Beck say "Did you just----" and then blackness.  Was there anything else?

Nope, that was the end. The preview for next week shows the moments after where Beck is wondering why he only lasted 8 seconds. 

[skotnikov]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Blythe is hilarious, though I'd have a hard time not ostentatiously rolling my eyes at her every time she opens her mouth. She's the perfect foil for Beck in the MFA story, too, as her absurd self-confidence totally undercuts Beck's self-doubt, which is starting to get on my nerves. Here's an idea, Beck: How about actually sitting down and trying to write something? Procrastination is the one way you absolutely won't get anything down on paper. Heh. 

 

Blythe is very realistic, I meet people like her all the time at academic conventions.

I like the show, but some time it's just too OTT. How many hours a week Joe works? He seems to stalk Beck all the time, and in this time and age if you're a book shop owner, you need to stress your a*s out to get some profit. Also I don't think that a corpse can decay that quickly. It's fun anyway.    

Edited September 24, 2018 by skotnikov

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, EdnasEdibles said:

Nope, that was the end. The preview for next week shows the moments after where Beck is wondering why he only lasted 8 seconds. 

Appreciate that!

[LilaFowler]

11 hours ago, Faithy said:

Becks self-absorption and obsession with how others view her is grating on me. I adore Joe’s face. I like how the most Joe-sceptic characters see elements of themselves reflected; Peach defensive that she might slip from being all important and revered by Beck. Paco’s step-dad sees a fellow ‘bad guy’ in him. The flash backs to Mr. Mooney set Joe up to be a sociopath (created) not a psychopath (born). I think Joe must have also killed him to have possession of the car and bookstore. I am not sure why they spent so much time on the writing class and the Blythe character (played by the trans actress who I really liked in Transparent), unclear where that story going.

I remember that he told someone (maybe Paco or Beck?) that Mr. Mooney "never comes in" to the bookstore. We all know what happens to people in Joe's life who just disappear from the planet.

[dubbel zout]

Even if Mr. Mooney is still alive, I think he'd be on the old side. Mark Blum, the actor who plays him, is 68 IRL, and Mr. Mooney met Joe when he was what, 14ish? So if Joe is now 25ish, that's 10 years, making Mooney close to 80. It's reasonable to me he'd stay away.

[Netfoot]

Here it is, time for Episode #3... and I still haven't got around to watching Episode #2.  Which means I really ain't that interested.  So, I'm out.

[tennisgurl]

I am really loving this show so far. I cant believe that I almost didnt realize this was on, but I am so glad I saw it pop up on one of my feeds. Its so creepy, and yet engaging, and even darkly funny. There is a lot to chew on every week so far. 

I love how the only people who can get a hint as to how much of a creep Joe is are fellow assholes like Peach and the parole officer guy. But, Joe really is great at coming of as unassuming and nice, and has such a clean cut, All-American look, that he can get away with almost anything. He even managed to make parole asshole look bad when he tried to get him in trouble. I am so torn on Joe, in that I know he is clearly a bad guy, and I want him to get caught eventually...but I am also kind of rooting for him for at least awhile, and find him endlessly watchable and interesting. Its confusing! 

As for Beck, she seems to be either a basic girl trying to be artsy, or an artsy girl trying to be basic. So much of Beck is based around her imagine, it can be hard to tell. I think that Joe sees Beck as a project, a person who he can "save" from herself, not a person he really is interested in as a partner. He hardly knows Beck, really, and he is putting all of this importance on this random woman. Her dad being an addict she has issues with does explain her people pleaser tendencies, and maybe even her wanting to be "more" than what she was born as, whether its as a rich party girl, or as a brilliant writer type. 

I gotta agree with Peach and her assessment of Blythe. A pretentious bitch of the highest degree. Especially because I totally went to school with people like her. I think that Peach is a bit more perceptive and intelligent than she seems, and she will end up figuring out what Joe really is way before Beck, which makes me concerned for her future. She is clearly getting a weird vibe off Joe, she is familiar enough with her library to know right away when a book goes missing, and a lot of what she says to Beck might be blunt or self centered, but most of it isnt really wrong. I wonder what her relationship with her literary family is like? 

I just want Paco to be alright!

[BooBear]

5 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I am a big fan of lifetime movies so I was really looking forward to this and it’s better then I could have hoped for.  

The show  did itself a lot of favors by making Joe more likable then Beck almost to the point where you are wondering  why he is going to all the trouble for a girl who doesn’t deserve HIM.  You almost forget he is stalking her and has already killed someone.  

Yes I think I am in it for Joe. If he was real I would be stalking him right now.  Also starting to wonder why he remains interested. She really is kind of a loser who doesn't know who she is or what she wants. 

I did, however, thik this episode was a bit of a stall. Not a lot happened and it seemed like filler. Kind of interested in Joe only lasting 8 seconds. Was that real or some manipulation?  He seems far too buttoned down not to be a master at such things. 

[Chaos Theory]

9 minutes ago, BooBear said:

 

I did, however, thik this episode was a bit of a stall. Not a lot happened and it seemed like filler. Kind of interested in Joe only lasting 8 seconds. Was that real or some manipulation?  He seems far too buttoned down not to be a master at such things. 

 I think that be exactly the thing to set him off.  He is the guy who lives in his head with dreams of romance but even it comes to the actual act he is all thumbs and awkward.   Beck will probably be all “thus happens to all guys” but then go to her friends and laugh about it in large part because she might blame herself because this nice guy was weirdly weird with her.  And because he is stalking her it will change the tone of the stalking. 

[VagueDisclaimer]

9 hours ago, EdnasEdibles said:

I don't know if Peach is smart enough to trap Joe and expose him. I think she's smart enough to figure out who she is but she seems like the kind of person who thinks she's the most special and most brilliant person in the room and her ego will be her downfall. I don't see her lasting.

Beck is so very annoying though. I mean, she doesn't deserve a creepy stalker like Joe but she is just not annoying. I keep thinking "Really? Her?" I mean, she's pretty but that's about it. 

I think Peach is aware that Joe is something he’s not sharing, that there’s something underlying this nice guy act, just like the abusive neighbor notices it. But I don’t think Peach gets that he’s dangerous and won’t, likely, until it’s too late. Because, of course, it’s the antagonists that notice the creeper. Very similar to certain characters on Dexter, who got too close to the truth and were dealt with.

I think the point of Beck is that she doesn’t need to “deserve” a stalker. A stalker doesn’t obsess because this person is amazing in real life, they don’t need to be, because a stalker MAKES them perfect in their own mind. Joe waves away Beck’s flaws and makes sense of them, because she’s his obsession and he needs to make those flaws perfect to him because really, he’s the perfect guy for her, who will understand her flaws, who will love her like no one ever has, support her like no one ever has, give her pleasures like no else ever has.

But in reality, he doesn’t see anything but his own projections of Beck, he’s secretly infiltrated himself into her life to manipulate all her emotions, and is a 5-second man. Because he’s not just a guy pursuing some mediocre girl, he’s a psycho stalker pursuing an obsession.

12 hours ago, eXiled said:

 I just hate that there will be people who find Joe's stalky ass endearing simply because they think he's cute. Ugh.

Already happening. I was on Twitter yesterday and people are already, unironically, tweeting, “OMG! Joe is so adorable, I totally ship Beck/Joe!!!!”

 

But there’s always those people lol. 

Edited September 24, 2018 by VagueDisclaimer

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

I just hate that there will be people who find Joe's stalky ass endearing simply because they think he's cute. Ugh.

People here or in general? I don't think finding him endearing in some ways and physically appealing is impossible, even knowing what he really is--those things by no mean equal "can do no wrong." He's as wrong as they come, man. People are multifaceted and It's worked for nonfiction bad people forever. Plus, for the purpose of the story, he has to be or she wouldn't be interested in him.

[KaveDweller]

Anyone else wondering how Beck and Joe could tell so quickly that Blythe's story was "brilliant?" They looked at Beck's phone for about 5 seconds before coming to that conclusion. I get they can't show someone reading for several minutes on TV, but that scene bothered me.

The only character I really like is Peach, and that is probably leftover PLL affection.  But I do find Joe a really compelling character to watch, I just want him to go down at the end.

[Chaos Theory]

12 hours ago, eXiled said:

I just hate that there will be people who find Joe's stalky ass endearing simply because they think he's cute. Ugh.

The problem is for the show to work he has to be endearing....at least at first.  The show just wouldn't work for me if he was so creepy it hurt.  

[VagueDisclaimer]

1 minute ago, Chaos Theory said:

The problem is for the show to work he has to be endearing....at least at first.  The show just wouldn't work for me if he was so creepy it hurt.  

I’m not OP, but “simply because he’s cute” was the point. Endearing, interesting, watchable, yes, of course these are reasons for tuning in and keeping up with the character. But what the OP said that there are those who will slip right by the characterization and will just be into his character because he’s cute and like i had seen tweeted that there are people actually “shipping” Beck and her stalker. While I get that the show is done from Joe’s perspective and we are set to sympathize with him more, he’s a stalker and a killer. 

[NeenerNeener]

20 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

How did Joe get the stench of death out of that basement so quickly, especially the “book cell” where the bodily secretions had leaked out?

I found a dead cat under my dining room window last week, and the smell blanketed my yard until I found somebody to come take it away. It cleared up after a few hours, but then, cats are small and the body was outdoors. I can't imagine how bad an adult human would smell in an enclosed space.

I see Peach is starting to let her freak flag fly in this episode.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

I found a dead cat under my dining room window last week, and the smell blanketed my yard until I found somebody to come take it away. It cleared up after a few hours, but then, cats are small and the body was outdoors. I can't imagine how bad an adult human would smell in an enclosed space.

First, awww, man--how sad! Second, I kept thinking of Henry Hill hosing out the car trunk in Goodfellas.

[Door County Cherry]

I think the show being told through the POV of the main character can often do a lot of work when it comes to sympathy.  I've watched other shows where opinions of characters have been formed based on the POV of the main character even if the main character is mistaken.  Or it takes a lot of misdeeds before people start to turn on the main character.  

Joe is a human being.  He has relatable wants, desires and obsessions.  Most people have, at one time, fantasized about or projected their fantasies onto a crush without knowing them at all. Many people have had the desire to snoop.  So even though we know it's wrong, it's easy to connect with Joe when he does it because we know his why.  We don't know Beck's why.  Or Peach's why.  

All we see is that Beck isn't what Joe makes her out to be but, of course, that's the whole point.  He doesn't respect the whole her.  She's the attractive shell he can pour his obsession into. His sexual desire.  He only wants to know things about her to "solve" her and then turn himself into someone who who she will see as the manliest of men; someone she will worship. So she's boring, annoying, self-centered?  It doesn't matter.  She doesn't matter.  

It gets lost in how the show is filled with his thoughts but he's just as empty and shallow as Beck appears to be. He's such as self-centered.  If he were to describe it, he'd say this story is about how women are everything to him but in reality, they're nothing to him.  

11 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I really like Peach and maybe it’s Shay  Mitchell but does anyone else think she has a thing for Beck?  

I haven't noticed it since the pilot (or was it the second ep) but there was a moment when Peach reached out and grabbed her hand and the camera focused on the fact that it lingered.  

[sweetandsour]

I'm glad others have picked up on the similarities between shitty neighbor Ron and Dexter characters.  I started calling Ron "Doakes" last night and I will not be stopping anytime soon.

I don't think Joe has killed before unless he's that unreliable of a narrator or he doesn't view what he's done in the past as killing.  In episode 2, he says in his voiceover something like, "oh if only I was a killer, this would be so much easier," when he's got Benjizos locked up in the room.  He also says in a VO along the lines of "who wants to be a killer?" in a tone of voice that implies he's averse to it.  That said, I don't know if someone who has never killed before would progress to dosing Benjizos with peanut oil and being that blasé around a dead, rotting body.

Of course, the shop owner and Candace could have died in ways that Joe doesn't define as killing.  (Like if he was chasing after Candace who was scared of his obsession, she tripped, fell, hit her head, and died.)  If Mr. Mooney is dead but he's allegedly still alive, Joe must be running the bookstore for him, either pretending to be him (like filing taxes) or as though Mr. Mooney has delegated these responsibilities to Joe in his old age.

I find it interesting how Joe keeps trying to figure out who Beck really is.  Some people base an obsession on who they want the other person to be and they cling to that.  Joe's interpretation is still subjective, but he hasn't decided she must be a certain way and run with it.  Though I agree with others above that Joe's desire to figure Beck out is because his understanding of her is directly related to how he sees and feels about himself.

And of course he can't figure out who she is because she hasn't figured out who she is.  I don't even think she wants to be a writer.  She loves the idea of being a writer, but she's too scared of failure that would push her to find a new identity, so she avoids turning in work for others to appraise.  I honestly think she would be secretly relieved if she was kicked out of the program for financial reasons because she wouldn't have lost her dream due to her own creative shortcomings.  She could blame it on factors other than her level of talent and passion.

Speaking of, I get confused by the inconsistency in her financial worries. She didn't need to keep that TA position for extra spending money.  She needed it to pay her basic living and school expenses.  She didn't seem to worry over buying a new phone to replace the one Joe stole.  She didn't seem to have a problem buying a new bedframe after she broke the other one during her bartender sex romp.  I'd think a financially struggling grad student would get a cheap IKEA bedframe or just those basic metal rails.

I don't know how this long-term disappearance of Benjizos is going to go.  His richie-rich family has a lot of resources to look for him.  He obviously had some issues with his partner, Jonno (?), but I can't imagine that Jonno will just go on like he always wanted to make the artisanal soda business work by himself anyway.  Police interviews will uncover that no one has seen Benjizos since the day he disappeared and a dump of his communications will find that catfishing e-mail from Joe, which presumably could be traced to some degree.  I wonder if they're going to overlook all of this or it'll come back to haunt Joe later.

Peach(es) is definitely into Beck.  They seem to allude to it in every episode.  When Peach was telling Beck at the hospital that Beck needs to be with someone who will take care of her financially and allow her to be free and create, she's not just putting Joe down as a love interest - she was talking about herself.

I think a big part of Joe's appeal is his sense of humor and sarcasm.  As creepy as his behaviors are, his reactions to the people around him are funny and I think most people would enjoy that in a vacuum.  I have to wonder why he chose Beck, though.  He works in retail where he interacts with people regularly.  He's not a social isolate and Beck is the neighbor across the hall.  Was their first interaction really that compelling to him?  I guess so.

Edited September 25, 2018 by sweetandsour

[LittleIggy]

3 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

I found a dead cat under my dining room window last week, and the smell blanketed my yard until I found somebody to come take it away. It cleared up after a few hours, but then, cats are small and the body was outdoors. I can't imagine how bad an adult human would smell in an enclosed space.

I see Peach is starting to let her freak flag fly in this episode.

When I was a kid, a horrible, sickly sweet smell filled our living room. It was awful. Finally found the source...a tiny mouse had died in the leg of the sofa. The window had to be opened wide and the sofa leg thoroughly cleaned. I can’t imagine getting the smell of a rotten corpse of a grown man out of that small glass enclosure in a basement!

[sadie]

I keep thinking someone in Benjis  family will eventually ping all these places where Joe is using his phone. Maybe they will hand wave it but it bothers me that Joe hasnt thought of this as, otherwise, he seems pretty tech savvy. I’m still loving this show, the insight into Joes obsession is fascinating especially when you consider Beck seems like a horrible person. Who goes on a date, kisses the guy, then later same night does some random Tinder sex hook up and then laughs about it. I can’t believe Joe overheard that and just decided it didn’t matter. Beck is truly unlikable.

[1092222]

One big flaw in the storyline is that the last day Benji was locked in the book room he went crazy and ripped up all the books to shreds and threw them around. So how were there more books neatly on the shelves for Joe to show Beck in his "this is who I am" tour?

[Ms Blue Jay]

I noticed the very same thing, @1092222.

[seacliffsal]

I am really enjoying this show.  I also think that, to a degree, it is showing that many people don't really know each other before deciding they are in love or belong with that person.  So much seems to be image combined with "making" that person into a desirable partner.  Watching Judge Judy, People's Court, etc., really emphasizes how many people move full speed ahead into relationships without really knowing the other person.  They overlook all of the red flags in the belief that this person is their destiny.  The sense I get from this show is that Joe is seeing Beck as his idealized woman and thus has to explain away her actions that don't fit into the scenario that he has created.  The same with Beck, she has created her own story and is now seeking to create a reality that represents her story.  

To me, there is an eerie realism to this show in that people see what they want to see in another person and not who that other person really is.  Both Joe and Beck are seeing inconsistencies in each other but are hand waving them away.  I must acknowledge that the killing of other people is not the 'realism' that I was referring to, but rather the seeing what someone wants to see.

[poeticlicensed]

Why is Beck studying writing? Every time she sits down to write, she ends up calling or texting someone or making plans to do ANYTHING but write. How does she manage to stay in school? And if she was a TA for Professor Handsy, wouldn't she be busy grading, grading, grading? Most faculty I know have their TAs do all the crap work, like reading the papers, grading the tests, maintaining the gradebook, etc. Beck doesn't appear to do any of that. If she is a graduate assistant with no classroom responsibilities, she would be very busy doing research for the professor she is assigned to. She can't even manage to do her own work, much less help a faculty member with theirs. Most GAs and TAs I know barely have time to eat, much less have an active social life, like Beck. Not only that, but her character doesn't even seem to enjoy the little writing she does. That's going to be tough down the road, if she becomes a professional writer. 

But that last scene, I know I'm evil, but I couldn't help myself from laughing. Whoops!

Edited September 25, 2018 by poeticlicensed

[NeenerNeener]

On 9/24/2018 at 10:08 AM, Chaos Theory said:

I really like Peach and maybe it’s Shay  Mitchell but does anyone else think she has a thing for Beck?  

Yeah, that's what the whole "I have a delicate constitution and you must go with me to the hospital" act was all about, and Joe called her on it.

[Kimmel77]

With the way the show depicts Beck, I can't really get a grip on her character. I'm hoping she is a lot more calculated rather than reactive to her situations. It would really shatter Joe's illusions and make him question what he has sacrificed for her. Interesting to see how that works out on the show as well.

With Peach's getting suspicious (and with her money), I can see her easily getting a private investigator to check out Joe's past rather than doing it herself. But that would be too easy and too quick for a show like this so she may well become a sleuth all on her own.

I think he killed the original bookstore owner but has the ex-girlfriend caged up somewhere. Don't think Joe kills his obsessions.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Kimmel77

[Lady Calypso]

On 24/09/2018 at 10:22 PM, sweetandsour said:

I don't think Joe has killed before unless he's that unreliable of a narrator or he doesn't view what he's done in the past as killing.  In episode 2, he says in his voiceover something like, "oh if only I was a killer, this would be so much easier," when he's got Benjizos locked up in the room.  He also says in a VO along the lines of "who wants to be a killer?" in a tone of voice that implies he's averse to it.  That said, I don't know if someone who has never killed before would progress to dosing Benjizos with peanut oil and being that blasé around a dead, rotting body.

Of course, the shop owner and Candace could have died in ways that Joe doesn't define as killing.  (Like if he was chasing after Candace who was scared of his obsession, she tripped, fell, hit her head, and died.)  If Mr. Mooney is dead but he's allegedly still alive, Joe must be running the bookstore for him, either pretending to be him (like filing taxes) or as though Mr. Mooney has delegated these responsibilities to Joe in his old age.

I tend to lean toward your second thought about him not viewing his past actions as killing. We know that Joe has a very warped view on things. His narration is very subjective and he sees thing through his own lens, despite how smart he may be. We know he sees Beck in a very particular way and he doesn't really see everything about her, despite stalking her for most of his day. 

He definitely killed Benji, that much is certain, so he IS a killer. But he seems to justify it in a sense, that he knows that he couldn't just let Benji go and he had to protect himself (and also Beck).We know he isn't a fan of the brutal deaths, and maybe he's opposed to deaths that he causes directly. With a poisoning such as what he did with Benji, there's a certain amount of distance between that. In his mind, he may not have thought that since he didn't kill him with a knife or a gun that he's not completely at fault, or that he can't get caught. However, he's perfectly fine with sending his neighbour kid on errands to help him get rid of the body. So I think he's about self-preservation. He doesn't want to be directly involved so as long as he isn't doing the actual killing upfront, then maybe he's not really at fault. After all, Benji just happened to be allergic to something that Joe happened to give him in his coffee. It could have been an accident, although what he's done after his death and even before is something he can't explain if he gets caught. 

As for the shop owner and Candace, I'm interested in seeing what happened with both of them because I'm pretty sure at least one of them is dead and that Joe is somehow responsible.

Beck is someone who is clouded by Joe's perspective on her. I think she's a much more interesting character than Joe is thinking she is. She's definitely flawed but we're still seeing much of the show from Joe's perspective. She definitely doesn't seem to really want to be a writer so I think it'll be interesting to see where her path truly lies. 

Peach is probably the most fascinating character next to Joe at the moment. Her appearance at Beck's apartment about needing to go to the emergency room was interesting, as it did seem like she was putting on an act. I don't think Shay Mitchell's the strongest actress but she went more over the top there. Perhaps she's playing her own obsessive game with Beck. It would be interesting if Peach and Joe were more similar in their obsession with Beck. They both definitely feel the need to protect Beck and they are definitely starting to play a mental tug-of-war game with each other.

Joe is certainly charming and the show is definitely letting us root for him for the moment. He's the main character, so they can't make him too unlikable. I think my biggest fear is that, despite this being based on a book, while not knowing where the book goes, the show may chicken out and not go all the way with Joe. They'll make him more of a good guy than a bad guy. There's potential for him to go really far with his actions and be truly punished, but with the actor being likable and Joe being the front and center that they won't commit to him being the antagonist. Obviously Joe has a lot of major flaws and he still has some good to him (as good as a psychopathic stalker killer can be, I guess) but I want them to commit to him being more bad than good, rather than more good than bad. Just a fear of mine that may not go anywhere but if this show isn't just a mini-series and does somehow earn a second season with Penn still attached, then I don't see how they go forward with Joe.

I do think that there are little things here and there that Joe is slipping up on, things he may not even consider to be important, but that will get him caught at the end. 

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

I can't believe the police haven't been around to question  Beck   if she's seen Benji.  How many days or weeks has it been? The authorities can easily check Benji"s  phone records . I'm sure someone is missing him somewhere? 

[methodwriter85]

On 9/24/2018 at 8:41 AM, dubbel zout said:

Blythe is hilarious, though I'd have a hard time not ostentatiously rolling my eyes at her every time she opens her mouth. She's the perfect foil for Beck in the MFA story, too, as her absurd self-confidence totally undercuts Beck's self-doubt, which is starting to get on my nerves.

I kind of liked that she was just there as a transgender person/character, without it needing to be said/mentioned. Not everything needs to be a woke moment. I looked her up after seeing this episode and I was like, "Wait, they had a trans actress and they DIDN'T make it into some socially conscious episode? Blythe was just a character that was defined by her pretentious bitchery and not being transgender? Cool!"

Anyone who's been to grad school knew a Blythe. She's pretty realistic. I was in grad school and I still remember the overly confident ones who were eye-rolling to be around.

Quote

Of course, the shop owner and Candace could have died in ways that Joe doesn't define as killing.  (Like if he was chasing after Candace who was scared of his obsession, she tripped, fell, hit her head, and died.)

That's what I'm leaning toward. I think that's what happened.

Or there will be a twist that Candace is actually alive but fled the hell out of town cutting off all contact from people in the process, basically pulling a Sleeping with the Enemy.

Edited January 4, 2019 by methodwriter85

[bettername2come]

Penn Badgley has such great delivery. "It's in the basement. With a dead body." "Is that ooze?" I immediately laugh before I realize I shouldn't be laughing at the psycho murderer like it's sitcom shenanigans. Also, what was he thinking? It's air conditioning not a refrigerator. You're supposed to throw out meat if it's been stored above 40 degrees for more than two hours. Can't imagine dealing with dead bodies is any different in that regard. He sucks at murder. He deserves to get caught. But then he has the backyard garden that works for all the body disposal items he sent a child to buy. 

Joe is going to kill Blithe, right? Cause with her pretentiousness and "facial autism" I think she's totally the type he'd feel inclined to murder. 

Damn it, Beck! Don't go into a cage with a guy you think's hiding things from you. Also, how does she keep not seeing him? He's not that good at hiding while he stalks.

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, bettername2come said:

Also, how does she keep not seeing him? He's not that good at hiding while he stalks.

He's not, but Beck is self-absorbed enough she's not paying attention. 

[Clanstarling]

On 1/15/2019 at 5:31 PM, LMM said:

Her “flaws”:

• doesn’t prioritize privacy
• procrastinates
• insecure at times
• sometimes wants attention or validation
• a little flirty
• likes sex

His flaws:

• obsessive
• self-centered
• stalks people
• breaks and enters
• impersonates his victims electronically 
• theft
• assaults people
• kidnapps people
• murders people

Her supposed flaws that seem to make her so unlikeable to many are just regular human things that are true for most people. His very real flaws are that of a shit person and criminal. Of course he doesn’t see himself that way. 

I’m somehow surpised/not surprised to read so many posts finding ways to tear her down and make excuses for him.

If you find yourself doing this, even if you feel like you have good reasons which couldn’t possibly be related to internalized misogyny, maybe take a step back and really think about why you think she is bland/flighty/unworthy/awful and he is charming/overall a good guy/justified. 

I don't find her particularly interesting (though her backstory this episode hints at some depths that might change that). But that doesn't mean I think she deserves to be stalked by this creep. He may be fascinating in a watching a documentary on serial killers kind of way.  But I don't root for him  he's a dangerous, deluded creep and there are people like that in real life. That reality never leaves my mind.

The difference (for me) between this on Dexter is, at least in the beginning, the people Dexter stalked and murdered were terrible people (IIRC usually murderers themselves). So that was interesting. But I never thought of Dexter as a great guy. He was a shark who mimicked a human being.

Edited January 27, 2020 by Clanstarling

[paramitch]

On 9/24/2018 at 5:41 AM, dubbel zout said:

I liked that they made Peach smart enough to realize the Oz book was missing and link it to Joe. She's either dead by the end of the series or the one who unmasks Joe as the creep he is, I think. A showdown between those two could be really good.

That actually irritated me. Joe is standing there holding OZMA right in front of her, they talk about it, he takes it, and there is a clear gap in the bookshelf. It just felt like a stupid thing for him to do.

On 9/24/2018 at 6:54 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Beck's porno/sex hotline voice, "Hiiiiii......" makes me insane.  Vocal fry?  I honestly don't know if this is intentional on the part of the direction or it's just the actress.  Oh my god is it annoying.

Oh, 100% this. Her constant vocal fry is driving me to distraction. I try not to get to judgy about that because it really is the way some people talk, but Beck's appears to me to be a conscious affectation. Peach does it too, and it's very deliberate and just drives me bonkers.

On 9/24/2018 at 4:13 PM, VagueDisclaimer said:

I think the point of Beck is that she doesn’t need to “deserve” a stalker. A stalker doesn’t obsess because this person is amazing in real life, they don’t need to be, because a stalker MAKES them perfect in their own mind. Joe waves away Beck’s flaws and makes sense of them, because she’s his obsession and he needs to make those flaws perfect to him because really, he’s the perfect guy for her, who will understand her flaws, who will love her like no one ever has, support her like no one ever has, give her pleasures like no else ever has.

But in reality, he doesn’t see anything but his own projections of Beck, he’s secretly infiltrated himself into her life to manipulate all her emotions, and is a 5-second man. Because he’s not just a guy pursuing some mediocre girl, he’s a psycho stalker pursuing an obsession.

This is really well said -- I agree. The clever thing the show does is by putting us in Joe's POV, we are inclined to be at least slightly biased toward him -- he's warped and dangerous, but he's also funny and self-effacing and charming. So all these disturbing things he does are sort of candy-coating his stalking and hypocrisy and toxicity. I think the show is kind of brilliant in its presentation of this redpill 4chan guy as deceptively charming like this. It's honestly creepier this way for me.

On 9/24/2018 at 6:28 PM, Door County Cherry said:

Joe is a human being.  He has relatable wants, desires and obsessions.  Most people have, at one time, fantasized about or projected their fantasies onto a crush without knowing them at all. Many people have had the desire to snoop.  So even though we know it's wrong, it's easy to connect with Joe when he does it because we know his why.  We don't know Beck's why.  Or Peach's why.  

All we see is that Beck isn't what Joe makes her out to be but, of course, that's the whole point.  He doesn't respect the whole her.  She's the attractive shell he can pour his obsession into. His sexual desire.  He only wants to know things about her to "solve" her and then turn himself into someone who who she will see as the manliest of men; someone she will worship. So she's boring, annoying, self-centered?  It doesn't matter.  She doesn't matter.  

It gets lost in how the show is filled with his thoughts but he's just as empty and shallow as Beck appears to be. He's such as self-centered.  If he were to describe it, he'd say this story is about how women are everything to him but in reality, they're nothing to him.  

This. Perfectly said. 

On 9/24/2018 at 7:22 PM, sweetandsour said:

Speaking of, I get confused by the inconsistency in her financial worries. She didn't need to keep that TA position for extra spending money.  She needed it to pay her basic living and school expenses.  She didn't seem to worry over buying a new phone to replace the one Joe stole.  She didn't seem to have a problem buying a new bedframe after she broke the other one during her bartender sex romp.  I'd think a financially struggling grad student would get a cheap IKEA bedframe or just those basic metal rails.

Yeah, this bothers me too. Beck was established that her TA position was essential to her -- something she was desperate to preserve, both to survive monetarily and to write (this thing she wants so much, supposedly). And then we have all the other inconsistent stuff -- she's flat broke, but then spends on the phone, bed, etc. It's a little irritating because it's sloppy writing.

On 9/25/2018 at 10:32 AM, poeticlicensed said:

Why is Beck studying writing? Every time she sits down to write, she ends up calling or texting someone or making plans to do ANYTHING but write. How does she manage to stay in school? And if she was a TA for Professor Handsy, wouldn't she be busy grading, grading, grading? Most faculty I know have their TAs do all the crap work, like reading the papers, grading the tests, maintaining the gradebook, etc. Beck doesn't appear to do any of that. If she is a graduate assistant with no classroom responsibilities, she would be very busy doing research for the professor she is assigned to. She can't even manage to do her own work, much less help a faculty member with theirs. Most GAs and TAs I know barely have time to eat, much less have an active social life, like Beck. Not only that, but her character doesn't even seem to enjoy the little writing she does. That's going to be tough down the road, if she becomes a professional writer. 

Yeah, as a working writer, I'm irritated at the characterization of Beck. Aside from the opening poem, so far honestly she has never met a single deadline that we've seen, even when her TA position was at stake. And with no visible reason than oh, sigh, vocal fry, she couldn't really come up with anything. It's just one of those situations where the show tells us all the time that she's a writer, but it's just not believable to me. I get that it's a challenge -- writing is mostly internal, so it's hard to show writing in a dynamic or creative way onscreen -- when it's great, as in An Angel at My Table, Adaptation, Bright Star, or Out of Africa, it's awesome. But it's hard to do.

On 10/7/2018 at 4:43 PM, Lady Calypso said:

I do think that there are little things here and there that Joe is slipping up on, things he may not even consider to be important, but that will get him caught at the end. 

This is my favorite aspect of the show so far -- the little ways we see Joe's arrogance even as he makes visible mistakes that will surely come back to haunt him.

[seacliffsal]

I so agree with the above observations about Beck, but I think that is what made her so appealing to Joe.  She always seems to be looking for someone to help her, so here he is!  It is also representative of people who want to project or live an image but then don't have anything to back it up.  She wants to be a writer (because people are seemingly always impressed by that and it is 'cool'), but doesn't want to have to actually work as a writer.